Electrical Grounding Question
Electrical Grounding Question
I apologize if this is in the wrong forum. Please feel free to move it.
We built a house a few years ago that used the 2005 National Electrical Code. Recently we opened a light switch junction box to add a ceiling fan and our licensed electrician pointed out that the existing light switches were not grounded. He told me this was not per the 2005 Electrial Code.
I contacted the builder, who is also a licensed electrician. He said that the code only requires grounding of switches on commercial projects, not on Residential homes. Ours is clearly a residential home.
Does anybody know what the 2005 NEC says in regards to this topic? I can't find a copy on line and I don't want to buy one. I am unsure as to how to resolve this, since the builder is licensed and what can I say about this topic if I don't have a resource. I don't want this to turn in to an argument.
Thank you all very much.
We built a house a few years ago that used the 2005 National Electrical Code. Recently we opened a light switch junction box to add a ceiling fan and our licensed electrician pointed out that the existing light switches were not grounded. He told me this was not per the 2005 Electrial Code.
I contacted the builder, who is also a licensed electrician. He said that the code only requires grounding of switches on commercial projects, not on Residential homes. Ours is clearly a residential home.
Does anybody know what the 2005 NEC says in regards to this topic? I can't find a copy on line and I don't want to buy one. I am unsure as to how to resolve this, since the builder is licensed and what can I say about this topic if I don't have a resource. I don't want this to turn in to an argument.
Thank you all very much.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
I knew I should have kept my 2005 NEC! Seriously, I just purged a lifetime's worth of technical and reference books and that was one of them.
Possibly try to find a 2005 NEC via inter-library loan.
Useless datapoint: My house was built prior to 2000 and the switches are grounded.
Possibly try to find a 2005 NEC via inter-library loan.
Useless datapoint: My house was built prior to 2000 and the switches are grounded.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
"Worrying is like paying interest on a debt that you might never owe" -- Will Rogers
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
I’m honestly very surprised. ( I’m not a licensed electrician though). I’ve owned a bunch of houses, built back in the 90s, and they were all grounded.
I always thought “if a fixture has a ground screw, it is required to be grounded”. Today I learned.
I just can’t imagine any electrician * not* grounding the switches and receptacles.
But again, I’m not an electrician.
I always thought “if a fixture has a ground screw, it is required to be grounded”. Today I learned.
I just can’t imagine any electrician * not* grounding the switches and receptacles.
But again, I’m not an electrician.
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Re: Electrical Grounding Question
It depends on the builder, and most builders are horrible. The NEC is just the bottom bar to pass and most won't do that if the city/county inspectors do not stay on top of them. They know 10-15 years down the line there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.
I'm actually surprised you even know who the builder is and they are still around your area, usually they move on after building 30 to 300 houses.
I'm actually surprised you even know who the builder is and they are still around your area, usually they move on after building 30 to 300 houses.
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Re: Electrical Grounding Question
The 2011 change applied just to switches. Receptacles have been required to be grounded for decades.
"Worrying is like paying interest on a debt that you might never owe" -- Will Rogers
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
Any chance your house has conduit? If so, grounding is trivial. If not, and likely NM cable, then hopefully you have cable with an extra wire available for grounding, otherwise you likely need new / additional cable pulled.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
Thank you for the responses, so far.
House construction was completed in 2015. 2005 NEC was to be used for construction by the City.
All rescepticles are grounded. None of the light switches are grounded. The did run grounding wire to each wall mounted light switch junction box, but they didn't connect the light switches to the ground wire present.
Conduits were not used in the wiring of this house.
This builder is well respected in this community and builds high end homes.
So, is the article saying grounding of light switches wasn't required until 2011? From this link provided to the article, it seemed convoluted, that I didn't see that in there.
Thank you, again.
House construction was completed in 2015. 2005 NEC was to be used for construction by the City.
All rescepticles are grounded. None of the light switches are grounded. The did run grounding wire to each wall mounted light switch junction box, but they didn't connect the light switches to the ground wire present.
Conduits were not used in the wiring of this house.
This builder is well respected in this community and builds high end homes.
So, is the article saying grounding of light switches wasn't required until 2011? From this link provided to the article, it seemed convoluted, that I didn't see that in there.
Thank you, again.
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Re: Electrical Grounding Question
This topic is now in the Personal Consumer Issues forum.
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Re: Electrical Grounding Question
The article is convoluted and it is mostly talking about the "Grounded Conductor" i.e neutral or white wire.
It doesn't talk about the green "equipment grounding conductor" until 2014.
This article indicates they have been required since 1999:
https://www.howtolookatahouse.com/Blog/ ... unded.html
It doesn't talk about the green "equipment grounding conductor" until 2014.
This article indicates they have been required since 1999:
https://www.howtolookatahouse.com/Blog/ ... unded.html
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
It is a switch with a plastic toggle. What would you be grounding? There is nothing to ground to!
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
From 2005NEC:
404.9 Provisions for General-Use Snap Switches.
(A) Faceplates. Faceplates provided for snap switches
mounted in boxes and other enclosures shall be installed so
as to completely cover the opening and, where the switch is
flush mounted, seat against the finished surface.
(B) Grounding. Snap switches, including dimmer and
similar control switches, shall be effectively grounded and
shall provide a means to ground metal faceplates, whether
or not a metal faceplate is installed. Snap switches shall be
considered effectively grounded if either of the following
conditions is met:
(1) The switch is mounted with metal screws to a metal
box or to a nonmetallic box with integral means for
grounding devices..
(2) An equipment grounding conductor or equipment
bonding jumper is connected to an equipment grounding
termination of the snap switch.
Exception to (B): Where no grounding means exists within
the snap-switch enclosure or where the wiring method does
not include or provide an equipment ground, a snap switch
without a grounding connection shall be permitted for replacement
purposes only. A snap switch wired under the
provisions of this exception and located within reach of
earth, grade, conducting floors, or other conducting surfaces
shall be provided with a faceplate of nonconducting,
noncombustible material or shall be protected by a groundfault
circuit interrupter.
(C) Construction. Metal faceplates shall be of ferrous
metal not less than 0.76 mm (0.030 in.) in thickness or of
nonferrous metal not less than 1.02 mm (0.040 in.) in thickness.
Faceplates of insulating material shall be noncombustible
and not less than 2.54 mm (0.010 in.) in thickness, but
they shall be permitted to be less than 2.54 mm (0.010 in.)
in thickness if formed or reinforced to provide adequate
mechanical strength.
404.9 Provisions for General-Use Snap Switches.
(A) Faceplates. Faceplates provided for snap switches
mounted in boxes and other enclosures shall be installed so
as to completely cover the opening and, where the switch is
flush mounted, seat against the finished surface.
(B) Grounding. Snap switches, including dimmer and
similar control switches, shall be effectively grounded and
shall provide a means to ground metal faceplates, whether
or not a metal faceplate is installed. Snap switches shall be
considered effectively grounded if either of the following
conditions is met:
(1) The switch is mounted with metal screws to a metal
box or to a nonmetallic box with integral means for
grounding devices..
(2) An equipment grounding conductor or equipment
bonding jumper is connected to an equipment grounding
termination of the snap switch.
Exception to (B): Where no grounding means exists within
the snap-switch enclosure or where the wiring method does
not include or provide an equipment ground, a snap switch
without a grounding connection shall be permitted for replacement
purposes only. A snap switch wired under the
provisions of this exception and located within reach of
earth, grade, conducting floors, or other conducting surfaces
shall be provided with a faceplate of nonconducting,
noncombustible material or shall be protected by a groundfault
circuit interrupter.
(C) Construction. Metal faceplates shall be of ferrous
metal not less than 0.76 mm (0.030 in.) in thickness or of
nonferrous metal not less than 1.02 mm (0.040 in.) in thickness.
Faceplates of insulating material shall be noncombustible
and not less than 2.54 mm (0.010 in.) in thickness, but
they shall be permitted to be less than 2.54 mm (0.010 in.)
in thickness if formed or reinforced to provide adequate
mechanical strength.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
The two cover screws are typically metal. They screw into the metal switch body. The metal body is in close proximity to live conductors and parts and could become live in an abnormal condition if the body is not grounded. So those screws could potentially become live and be a shock hazard.It is a switch with a plastic toggle. What would you be grounding? There is nothing to ground to!
In most homes, the floor is dry and made of insulating material, therefore not a great conductor to ground so a person shocked would very likely just say "ouch" or just feel a tingle and get the switch fixed if it worried him. Not the same in a garage where you might be standing on a wet concrete floor though.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
In response to Jehousto, I understand your point, but the question is if the installation meets the Code. I was told that the metal screw attaching the metal switch to the box to the cover plate could be a concern. Another concern is if someone replaces the plastic cover with a metalic cover plate.
With regards to Mrgray17, great find! Now, someone help interpret this code. My electrical switch boxes are nonmetallic. The coverplates are plastic. They do not have a grounding wire connected to the switches. I don't follow the code portion "Snap switches shall be considered effectively grounded if either of hte following conditions are met: 1 and 2". The switch is mounted with metal screws to a nonmetallic box. I do not understand "with integral meas for grounding devices"
Are my switches considered effectively grounded or not?
Seems so strange to me that they run ground wires to each box, but not connect them to the actual switches.
Can someone please help interpret the code provided and give me your opinion if there is a concern with my situation?
Thank you very much
With regards to Mrgray17, great find! Now, someone help interpret this code. My electrical switch boxes are nonmetallic. The coverplates are plastic. They do not have a grounding wire connected to the switches. I don't follow the code portion "Snap switches shall be considered effectively grounded if either of hte following conditions are met: 1 and 2". The switch is mounted with metal screws to a nonmetallic box. I do not understand "with integral meas for grounding devices"
Are my switches considered effectively grounded or not?
Seems so strange to me that they run ground wires to each box, but not connect them to the actual switches.
Can someone please help interpret the code provided and give me your opinion if there is a concern with my situation?
Thank you very much
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
BH_RedRan...Great points.
Interesting that you mentioned the floor. Our house is very modern and has polished concrete floors in the living area. Does this change anything with regards to requirements per the code?
Thank you
Interesting that you mentioned the floor. Our house is very modern and has polished concrete floors in the living area. Does this change anything with regards to requirements per the code?
Thank you
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
It appears that your switches are not effectively grounded and should be.Bnjneer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 6:46 pm In response to Jehousto, I understand your point, but the question is if the installation meets the Code. I was told that the metal screw attaching the metal switch to the box to the cover plate could be a concern. Another concern is if someone replaces the plastic cover with a metalic cover plate.
With regards to Mrgray17, great find! Now, someone help interpret this code. My electrical switch boxes are nonmetallic. The coverplates are plastic. They do not have a grounding wire connected to the switches. I don't follow the code portion "Snap switches shall be considered effectively grounded if either of hte following conditions are met: 1 and 2". The switch is mounted with metal screws to a nonmetallic box. I do not understand "with integral meas for grounding devices"
Are my switches considered effectively grounded or not?
Seems so strange to me that they run ground wires to each box, but not connect them to the actual switches.
Can someone please help interpret the code provided and give me your opinion if there is a concern with my situation?
Thank you very much
Your nonmetallic boxes are unlikely to meet condition (B) 1, so you must meet condition (B) 2.
Is there a "Bare" wire in the box?
Is so, it just needs a "pigtail" wire connected to the other "bare" wires and connected to the "equipment grounding" screw on the switch.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
yes, there are bare copper wires in the junction box.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Last edited by Bnjneer on Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
sorry MgGray17, I read too quickly. You pointed out the code requirements. I think I need new glasses!
Now, how do I convince the builder that these switches as constructed don't meet Code? I hate confrontation, but I hope it doesn't come down to that.
thank you
Now, how do I convince the builder that these switches as constructed don't meet Code? I hate confrontation, but I hope it doesn't come down to that.
thank you
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
If not grounded, according to 2005 code excerpt shown above...Does this change anything with regards to requirements per the code?
"A snap switch wired under the
provisions of this exception and located within reach of
earth, grade, conducting floors, or other conducting surfaces
shall be provided with a faceplate of nonconducting,
noncombustible material or shall be protected by a groundfault
circuit interrupter."
I believe the polished concrete might be considered earth. It would certainly be more "earthed" than a wooden floor. They don't discuss the screws, which are almost always metal.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
The first sentence of the exception must apply to get to use the quoted part above.BH_RedRan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:05 pmIf not grounded, according to 2005 code excerpt shown above...Does this change anything with regards to requirements per the code?
"A snap switch wired under the
provisions of this exception and located within reach of
earth, grade, conducting floors, or other conducting surfaces
shall be provided with a faceplate of nonconducting,
noncombustible material or shall be protected by a groundfault
circuit interrupter."
I believe the polished concrete might be considered earth. It would certainly be more "earthed" than a wooden floor. They don't discuss the screws, which are almost always metal.
Without photos it's hard to be sure, but I believe the switches have grounding screws and the wiring entering the enclosure would have the ground.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
I would point out 404.9 to the electrician and ask if there is another part of the code that has a specific exemption to 404.9. I doubt he can come up with one. Do you have plastic covers on your boxes? Are the cover screws metal? The exception within 404.9 (to me) implies that the shock risk can be mitigated with an insulated cover such as plastic. If the screws are metal, the plastic covers give you less metal to touch but you can still touch metal screws that are attached to the switch body.
Does 404.9 imply insulated cover mounting screws? Hard to tell.
If I had concrete floors, I would want the switches grounded. In an older house I once owned, which had wooden floors and ungrounded switches, I wasn't worried about it at all.
Does 404.9 imply insulated cover mounting screws? Hard to tell.
If I had concrete floors, I would want the switches grounded. In an older house I once owned, which had wooden floors and ungrounded switches, I wasn't worried about it at all.
I agree with that.The first sentence of the exception must apply to get to use the quoted part above.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
mggray17...The bare copper wires enter the junction box, but are not connected to any of the switches. The switches have metal grounding screws, but they are not connected to anything. Thank you
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
BH_Redran...
Yes, the coverplates are plastic. These covers are attached to the switches with metal screws (painted, but paint can get removed over time).
thank you
Yes, the coverplates are plastic. These covers are attached to the switches with metal screws (painted, but paint can get removed over time).
thank you
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
The good news is, it is simple and straightforward to ground the switches since there is a ground wire in the box.
I’d ask the builder to fix it. Assuming he won’t though, I’d personally hire an electrician to come in and do them all. Or if you’re moderately handy, you could knock it out pretty quick over a few weekend afternoons.
I’d ask the builder to fix it. Assuming he won’t though, I’d personally hire an electrician to come in and do them all. Or if you’re moderately handy, you could knock it out pretty quick over a few weekend afternoons.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
This provision was added to the NEC with respect to grounded conductors (Art 200). This does not apply to grounding conductors (Art 250).dpc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:56 pm https://iaeimagazine.org/2018/january20 ... on-or-not/
tl;dr: Requirement was added to NEC in 2011.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
What electrical and or building code was in effect at the time when your house was built? Some areas dont even use the NEC, and others can be 2 or 3 code cycles behind because they are slow to adopt or there are new things they dont like so exceptions have to be written. The NEC is published every 3 years.
Personally, I wouldnt worry about it if you have plastic cover plates and your cover screws are well painted. All houses I've lived in were built in the early 70s or earlier and switches werent grounded except for the few in metal boxes.
Personally, I wouldnt worry about it if you have plastic cover plates and your cover screws are well painted. All houses I've lived in were built in the early 70s or earlier and switches werent grounded except for the few in metal boxes.
Mark |
Somewhere in WA State
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
This seems backwards to me. I've never in my life seen a switch that was explicitly grounded, but they've all been in metal boxes attached to conduit, or a small number in metal boxes wired with Romex and the box was explicitly grounded. That's why it never concerned me. The switch is bonded to the box by its mounting screws, and the box itself is grounded.
If I had a switch in a plastic box, I'd want it hardwired to ground.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
suemarkp...
The 2005 NEC was supposed to be used for the electrical on the house per the City Building Code. I hope this answers your question. Thank you
The 2005 NEC was supposed to be used for the electrical on the house per the City Building Code. I hope this answers your question. Thank you
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
It looks like these have been discontinued, but they are an easy fix. It will be the labor that takes all the time on this, assuming the builder will go back and fix this omission:
https://www.goodmart.com/products/ideal ... igtail.htm
https://www.goodmart.com/products/ideal ... igtail.htm
Mark |
Somewhere in WA State
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Re: Electrical Grounding Question
2005 NEC
Based on my read of Article 404.9B, if the Builder/Electrician pulled a ground wire to the light switch box, then they were required to use it to ground the switch. If they didn't pull a ground, then no, not required. Assuming your house was built after 2005, odds are extremely high they used common 14-2 Romex for the light branch circuits, and if so, yes, the switches should have been grounded.
I am not an electrician.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
It is wild that the house is wired with wiring that contains a ground wire but they just didn't connect it. It's literally like 10 extra seconds per receptacle/switch.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
It doesn't surprise me at all. Inspectors commonly check (a few) receptacles with an outlet tester that would show an open ground, but nobody tests switches to make sure they are grounded. The builder/contractor knew what corners they could cut and still pass inspection.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
No, I mean I get it. It's just--of all the corners to cut, this one saves you basically zero time or money.Uniballer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:02 amIt doesn't surprise me at all. Inspectors commonly check (a few) receptacles with an outlet tester that would show an open ground, but nobody tests switches to make sure they are grounded. The builder/contractor knew what corners they could cut and still pass inspection.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
This does not mean they do good work just that they’re effective salesmen. If they didn’t take the 15 seconds to attach the ground wire to switches I wonder what else they cut corners on.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
What electrician would have ground wires in the box and ground screws on the switch and not attach the one to the other?
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
So what is in the box? Is there a ground screw connected to ground wire and just missing a wire between switch and ground screw or there is no 3rd ground wire in the cable?
Weird they would run cables with just 2 wires when the circuits with outlets would have required 3 wires.
Weird they would run cables with just 2 wires when the circuits with outlets would have required 3 wires.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
I would post a photo, but I do not know how do it on this forum. I tried to copy and paste, but it wouldn't allow me to do it. If someone could tell me how, I will post a photo which may answer your questions.
thank you
thank you
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
perhaps this will show the photograph of one of the boxes...
https://i.postimg.cc/qMk9Ff1n/Photo-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/qMk9Ff1n/Photo-1.jpg
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- Location: Noblesville IN
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
My house was built in 1992 and I did the electrical myself to save money. I am not an electrician, at the time you were still allowed to do work on your own house. All of my switches are in plastic boxes and are attached to the ground wire.
You say that your house was built in 2015. I'm assuming that any builder warranty has long expired and you are not going to get the builder to come back out on his dime. As was previously posted, this could be something that you could do yourself over a couple of Saturdays and take less time than you would spend arguing with the builder. If you are uncomfortable with turning off a circuit, testing that the circuit is off, and taking a short piece of electrical wire from the switch ground screw to the ground wire (assuming that the existing ground wire is not long enough), then you should consider hiring an electrician or a handyman/woman for a day.
Your house passed inspection in 2015, I highly doubt that you have any recourse with the builder.
Good luck with resolving this.
Edit: I just saw your picture after I posted the above. I'm surprised that the builder didn't connect the ground to the switches. You may have to replace the dimmer switch that has the ground wire cut off. That doesn't make sense, but after 6 years, I doubt that you will get the builder to fix.
You say that your house was built in 2015. I'm assuming that any builder warranty has long expired and you are not going to get the builder to come back out on his dime. As was previously posted, this could be something that you could do yourself over a couple of Saturdays and take less time than you would spend arguing with the builder. If you are uncomfortable with turning off a circuit, testing that the circuit is off, and taking a short piece of electrical wire from the switch ground screw to the ground wire (assuming that the existing ground wire is not long enough), then you should consider hiring an electrician or a handyman/woman for a day.
Your house passed inspection in 2015, I highly doubt that you have any recourse with the builder.
Good luck with resolving this.
Edit: I just saw your picture after I posted the above. I'm surprised that the builder didn't connect the ground to the switches. You may have to replace the dimmer switch that has the ground wire cut off. That doesn't make sense, but after 6 years, I doubt that you will get the builder to fix.
Last edited by NoblesvilleIN on Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
I can't address code, but that box has a bundle of bare copper ground wires to which could be added a pigtail to the green screw on the one switch. Why the green wire on the black box was cut off pretty much to the point nothing can be done is not explained.Bnjneer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:40 am perhaps this will show the photograph of one of the boxes...
https://i.postimg.cc/qMk9Ff1n/Photo-1.jpg
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
Wow. Lazy electrician. I don't care about the code. The Right Thing To Do is to ground them. The switch has a ground so you are good to go (note: older switches don't have a ground connection). And most perplexing is the apparent timer switch which has the ground wire cut off. Nice - not really.Bnjneer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:40 am perhaps this will show the photograph of one of the boxes...
https://i.postimg.cc/qMk9Ff1n/Photo-1.jpg
I'm surprised your electrician didn't bind and bond the grounds with more than a wire nut. Most do so using bare sleeves (crimp splice caps). The good news is since they didn't, this is extremely easy to fix because there is plenty of ground wire length to play with in order to add a pigtail for the switch. As for the timer switch, since that ground is cut off, it looks like you'll need a new one.
Last edited by Tubes on Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
The switch with the cut wire was replaced with a new switch for a ceiling fan. Yes, strange. It probably took as much time to snip the wire as would have taken to hook it up to the ground wires.
You are right, for this box, it would be easy to add a ground wire. For other boxes that have four switches, sometimes the ground wires are way in the back of the box and look like a pain to get at. I am sure I could do it, and may.
Thank you.
You are right, for this box, it would be easy to add a ground wire. For other boxes that have four switches, sometimes the ground wires are way in the back of the box and look like a pain to get at. I am sure I could do it, and may.
Thank you.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
Just remember to assure that all 4 ground wires are bonded together somehow. The temptation may be to run each to the switch individually. This would be completely wrong and ruin the ground. I can see how it can get rather crowded in a 4 switch box.Bnjneer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:12 am The switch with the cut wire was replaced with a new switch for a ceiling fan. Yes, strange. It probably took as much time to snip the wire as would have taken to hook it up to the ground wires.
You are right, for this box, it would be easy to add a ground wire. For other boxes that have four switches, sometimes the ground wires are way in the back of the box and look like a pain to get at. I am sure I could do it, and may.
Thank you.
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Re: Electrical Grounding Question
Carefully read your city electrical code requirements. I’ve been out of the trade for 20 years but do volunteer work for family and friends. Will be rewiring a home for my daughter and her family soon and knew the city had a few items that exceeded the NEC requirements. The city has the requirements posted and this is an excerpt:
Sec. 18-234. - National Electrical Code adopted.
SHARE LINK TO SECTIONPRINT SECTIONDOWNLOAD (DOCX) OF SECTIONSEMAIL SECTIONCOMPARE VERSIONS
There is hereby adopted, for the purpose of establishing rules and regulations for the installation and use of electrical equipment in buildings and structures, that certain electrical code known as the National Electrical Code, 2014 edition, and all subsequent editions and amendments, recommended by the American Insurance Association; and the whole thereof, and the same is hereby incorporated as fully as if set out at length in this article. The provisions of such code shall be controlling in the installation and use of electrical equipment in buildings and structures within the corporate limits of the city; provided, however, that if any provision of such code conflicts with any other provision of this article the latter shall govern.*
This is currently posted on the city website and calls out the 2014 edition of the NEC, however, the entire paragraph notes all subsequent additions and amendments (of the NEC)…
You need to look at the wording for your city electrical code and see what NEC edition is applicable at the date of construction.
Sec. 18-234. - National Electrical Code adopted.
SHARE LINK TO SECTIONPRINT SECTIONDOWNLOAD (DOCX) OF SECTIONSEMAIL SECTIONCOMPARE VERSIONS
There is hereby adopted, for the purpose of establishing rules and regulations for the installation and use of electrical equipment in buildings and structures, that certain electrical code known as the National Electrical Code, 2014 edition, and all subsequent editions and amendments, recommended by the American Insurance Association; and the whole thereof, and the same is hereby incorporated as fully as if set out at length in this article. The provisions of such code shall be controlling in the installation and use of electrical equipment in buildings and structures within the corporate limits of the city; provided, however, that if any provision of such code conflicts with any other provision of this article the latter shall govern.*
This is currently posted on the city website and calls out the 2014 edition of the NEC, however, the entire paragraph notes all subsequent additions and amendments (of the NEC)…
You need to look at the wording for your city electrical code and see what NEC edition is applicable at the date of construction.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
Really Interesting how the wires got sprayed white before the box was closed up. I didn't actually calculate, but I wonder if there are too many current-carrying wires in that box. I was going to ask why there are so many neutrals, but now I realize they may just be painted "white". Maybe that's why it's a three-gang box with only two devices. Does the cover plate have a jury-rigged closure on the hole for the third device?Bnjneer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:40 am perhaps this will show the photograph of one of the boxes...
https://i.postimg.cc/qMk9Ff1n/Photo-1.jpg
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
The box was set up for three switches during construction. The third switch was added later for a ceiling fan. Thank you
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
Yeah, paint. You see this way too much.crefwatch wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:02 amReally Interesting how the wires got sprayed white before the box was closed up. I didn't actually calculate, but I wonder if there are too many current-carrying wires in that box. I was going to ask why there are so many neutrals, but now I realize they may just be painted "white". Maybe that's why it's a three-gang box with only two devices. Does the cover plate have a jury-rigged closure on the hole for the third device?Bnjneer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:40 am perhaps this will show the photograph of one of the boxes...
https://i.postimg.cc/qMk9Ff1n/Photo-1.jpg
OP is fortunate that the neutrals are carried to the switch box per more recent code. Many modern devices need the neutral. Old code allowed the switch leg to skip the neutral on a "hot fixture" setup. New code requires the neutral (and ground) to be carried back to the switch.
For my 1980 house, this is a "no go" if you want something as simple as a switch with an embedded nightlight. And forget timers.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
"I was born with nothing and I have most of it left."
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
My house was built in 1984 and the light switches are grounded. Unbelievable what contractors get away with. I don't care what the code said in 2005, they knew best practice was to ground the switches.
Re: Electrical Grounding Question
This will be a little more involved in multigang boxes. Most wire nuts are limited to 5 wires. So you will need a new bundle of grounds and a jumper to the existing bundle. Single gang boxes should be easy.
Green wire nuts have a hole in the end so you can leave one of the grounds much longer to hit a receptacle or switch. But these have already been made up, so you cant take advantage of that.
The white on the wires is probably texture from the drywall crew or paint from the paint crew. Usually, someone stuffs paper or something in the boxes to keep the spray texture or paint from getting on things. But many times it isnt well done or not done at all.
Green wire nuts have a hole in the end so you can leave one of the grounds much longer to hit a receptacle or switch. But these have already been made up, so you cant take advantage of that.
The white on the wires is probably texture from the drywall crew or paint from the paint crew. Usually, someone stuffs paper or something in the boxes to keep the spray texture or paint from getting on things. But many times it isnt well done or not done at all.
Mark |
Somewhere in WA State