Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

alrick wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:35 am I hope you report back to us on how the meeting went!!
I will! Thanks for your interest!!
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

sesq wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:49 am Sounds like your conversation will be pleasant. Just be prepared for the worst also. My seemingly well to-do father had a stroke and we found out that he had a maxed out reverse mortgage and $120K in credit card debt. He died six months later leaving his wife with just social security. He retired early (from corporate law) in 1990 with something like $1.5M and worked as an estate planning attorney until his stroke. Turns out he was a terrible small business man and spent himself into the ground.
Sorry to hear that. Good point to expect surprises.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

8foot7 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:53 am No offense intended here, but it is In my opinion the wrong mindset to have, focusing on the number of rental properties and 1033 exchanges and capital gains etc, before you have had a conversation with the person in question.
I understand. You may be reassured by the fact that the original question in my OP was about how to make the talk more pleasant for her. 1031 exchanges and the rest came up because someone asked why she hung on to the property at her age. It was tangential.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about finances?]

Post by phxjcc »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:16 pm
Gnirk wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:10 am AnnetteLouisan-
Be grateful that she wants to meet and talk with you. I think I understand your fears. My advice would be to have an open mind and really listen to what your parent has to say. Just speaking from experience.
Thanks! I do appreciate your comment, and her for being proactive. Listening well, keeping the focus on her wishes, reiterating that it is her money to do with as she chooses, expressing gratitude and reliability in doing what she decides seem to be key.
I won't go into the shoulda, coulda, woulda re: the above mumble jumbo,about rental RE or financial market products.

You asked for tactical actions, so here goes.....

Take copious notes, such as:
1. Bank accounts, bank, branch, branch contact, approx dollar figures and expirations dates if cd's.
Same with investment accounts.
Same with safe deposit boxes---get your name on them.
2. Property: address, name title held in, taxes, tax due dates, copy of titles and mailing address of tax bills, and outstanding encumbrances.
3. Life, health, funeral insurance details.
4. This is the hardest--illiquid but valuable assets: coin collection, jewelry, sports memorabilia, furniture, art, what ever.
Take notes, check your notes and then ask questions in about a week.
That vase, like the one on antiques roadshow....is it "like it" or is it the same?
(Me, the same...a whopping $500)
Ditto: the painting from Uncle Bob's Mother in law's house...are you sure it is an original muckitty-muck?
(This happened to me, the muckitty-muck would have been $250,000; the copy was worth < $100)
5. If there is a trust, where is it (original with signatures), and who drafted and notarized it? If not trust, is there a will?
If you are to be the successor trustee, and the trust needs to be thusly changed, it will be easier to go through the original preparer of the trust to amend the trust as needed to accomplish that change.
6. Lastly, where are the person's personal records? Birth certificates, divers license, SS card, Medicare/drug card, passport, title deeds, check books, extra checks, keys, alarm codes, "all ok" code words for the alarm company and HOA guards, login/password's for as many accounts as possible, copies of bank/checking statements, are all utilities/credit cards/subscriptions directly paid or billed through the mail? And sorry--but is there an already paid-for last resting place?
You may need some or all of these after the person's death.

I have been through too many executor ships, good luck.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by bayview »

It’s not a pop quiz. If she asks you to do something, and you don’t easily know how to do it, ask her if she will (later) show you how, and if she can’t, ask her to tell you who to talk to.

You can figure it out.
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Re: Having “The Talk” - no, not that one

Post by celia »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:38 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:32 pm What are some examples of things you believe you'll be asked to do that you might not be ready for?
Be the executor, sell or maintain her RE, deal with her lawyer and whatever proceeding, continue her charitable giving, arrange or attend a celebration of her life, close or keep open her accounts, deal with her tenants, deal with - this is the big one - her not being with us anymore??? no experience with this kind of thing. well, we shall see…
Everyone has a first time taking care of any of these, but there will be others to help you through the parts where you need help (lawyers, tax preparers, custodians…)

I like to use situations like this as a learning experience. And I think you should be willing to do this as it helps you see potential problems in your own estate planning.

In fact, if your parent does want to talk about one or more of these topics, be glad you aren’t being asked to be a Health Care Power of Attorney. The financials are just a matter of money, pretty black and white, whereas health is more personal. Even if it is related to health, listen and take notes of what kinds of choices are desired and what they don’t want to happen. And most importantly, keep in mind that her choices may be very different than what you might be want for yourself. Would you be able to speak up to represent her choices if needed? You may have to think about it for a while.


As far as looking for a way to make this pleasant for her, share some of your own estate planning. Let her know that maybe you will learn something from her and her life experiences. Rather than just listening to her personal specifics, where she might feel uncomfortable, keep in mind that maybe she is more uncomfortable about the upcoming conversation than you are. If this is an in-person meeting, bring a snack or dessert, preferably her favorite.
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Re: Having “The Talk” - no, not that one

Post by veindoc »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:57 pm
Kenkat wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:51 pm Speaking from experience, I would make it my goal to make a list of all open accounts, including account numbers and other relevant details, while your parent is still of sound mind and able to do so. If they are comfortable with giving you approximate dollar value, that is helpful as well. At some point, they may be unable to provide this due to cognitive decline and then it becomes very difficult to get a handle on this information.
Thanks - she has lists of all of this, as does her lawyer. Fortunately she isn’t seriously ill, she is just being proactive.
Dont be afraid to ask pointed questions. My father has been talking about in drips and drabs and it’s maddening. I have no idea exactly how much he has and what he wants to do with it. He just mentioned that he wanted to leave some money to siblings and nieces/nephews so that was new. I don’t want to read between the lines. We are supposed to talk again this Friday where I will be asking some of those difficult questions. It’s uncomfortable but I think not knowing when the time comes will be even more uncomfortable, so I am going to suck it up and do it.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by Katietsu »

The real estate seems to be the most unique aspect of this potential conversation. I understand that you and your mother have been frugal and self sufficient. However, sometimes these two things are not synonymous. I believe you said in one thread that you had a salary over a quarter of a million and in this thread mentioned quitting the job to manage the rentals. It seems that a property manager would be the more frugal choice even with the significant real estate property owned by your parents. I know that it might be difficult to get your mother to see it this way.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by dianna »

Hi - You are to be commended for what you are offering your parent. This may be one of the biggest gifts that you can give for the next years/decades to come (I hope it's decades!).

Spouse and I each had a parent who suffered a compromising illness in the 2010's and both died in 2019. The surviving spouses of our parents sought our advice years before the parents died, and we were grateful for that as we could help them navigate the change from MFJ to Single filing status for starters. That alone is challenging and a big shock.

It has been our experience that once you become involved in the financial picture, you will likely be forever involved. Given the research shows that we reach our peak financial agility in our mid-50s https://www.amazon.com/What-When-Get-St ... 784&sr=8-2, it's wise for aging parents to consult with their children. I see this as true in your situation.

Here are some highlights from our experiences:
1. Listen. Talk less. Shut up more. Listen a Lot. Think the most.

2. Know the questions. What is your parent really concerned about? What makes them lose sleep? What topics make them anxious?

3. Resist petty reassurances. Reassurances beget more reassurances. Anxiety loves to feed off of empty words. You are better to try to engage in critical thinking by helping your loved elderly person be able to provide his/her own reassurances to their nagging questions. "Mom, you don't think that you have enough money. How much do you spend each year and how much do you have to spend? (regardless of investment growth). Let's do the math on that?" "Dad, you mention that you are concerned about potential tax rate hikes. Let's take a look at what those proposed rate hikes would mean to your bottom line, and then you tell me what you think about that."

4. Research quickly; Act slowly. When a financial topic does come up that needs to be researched, dive in! Strike while the iron is hot! But resist any quick movements. Think. Stall. Sleep on it. Several nights.

5. Praise Regularly. Find something that you can compliment your parent on. Tell them if they saved well. Compliment them if they made an investment that turned out okay. Praise them if they learned something new that you asked them to learn about. High-five them when they make a good decision. We are ALL motivated more by praise than criticism, so uplift them when they are doing something right.

6. Learn about their values. What is most important to them - is it money? legacy? charity? a good day? having a good night's sleep or a good morning's BM? Know what is most important to them and lean into that. Well, don't lean into the BM, but you get what I mean, I hope.

7. Honor their Legacy. This may sound morbid, but I think the exercise is worthwhile. Learn about them and their desired sentiment of their life. Please hear me out on this one, because we're all bound to have an obit some day unless we opt out of having one. In 4 months of 2019, I wrote 3 obituaries. It impacted me. And I have read about 200 per week, each week, since our parents died. Yes, it's an unusual practice of mine to read the obits once per week. Allow me share what I've learned..... the best ones capture the sentiment of the person. Not what they accomplished, or how many kids (or marriages!) they had, or what their titles were in their occupation. The best ones capture their essence, their spirit, their odd humor, their eccentricities, etc. I encourage you to help them matter now and in the "after-then" by capturing their spirit.

Thank you for reading -
Now carry on.....
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by celia »

dianna wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:22 pm 7. Honor their Legacy. This may sound morbid, but I think the exercise is worthwhile. Learn about them and their desired sentiment of their life. Please hear me out on this one, because we're all bound to have an obit some day unless we opt out of having one. In 4 months of 2019, I wrote 3 obituaries. It impacted me. And I have read about 200 per week, each week, since our parents died. Yes, it's an unusual practice of mine to read the obits once per week. Allow me share what I've learned..... the best ones capture the sentiment of the person. Not what they accomplished, or how many kids (or marriages!) they had, or what their titles were in their occupation. The best ones capture their essence, their spirit, their odd humor, their eccentricities, etc. I encourage you to help them matter now and in the "after-then" by capturing their spirit.
Dianna, all your points are excellent, but I like this one the most. As a genealogist, i think it’s important to pass down our values, struggles, and what makes us unique.

Their values could include family experiences, education priorities, service to others, world travelers, hobbies/sports they enjoy. If we don’t share our life struggles, grand-kids will remember their grandparents and parents as they knew them (when grandparents were over 60 or parents over 30). They may never learn what those people experienced before they (the grand-kids) were born. They may assume grandma grew up exactly like they did, when in fact, grandma may have had to immigrate, do menial work, had no electricity or electronics, and lived through world wars. Parents may have started out in poor living conditions, but improved their lives through hard work, moving far away, or being the first to attend college.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by JoeRetire »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:37 pm A parent o’mine who has always been very tight lipped about money wants to “have a conversation” with me about money in their late 80s. And I’m pretty sure it’s not to ask me for help paying credit cards or in getting a reverse mortgage. 😅 Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.

I have been hesitating to have this conversation, mostly because I don’t know what my role should be or how to best react in a way helpful to and respectful of them. I also think they will ask me to decide things I’m not ready to decide and ask me to assume responsibilities for which I may not feel I am ready.

If you have been through this Conversation, either as the parent or the offspring, and you have thoughts on how the offspring can make it more pleasant for the parent, I’d be grateful for any guidance. Obviously showing gratitude is on the menu, but aside from that?
Just be open to actually hearing and understanding what they have to say. Try to look at it from their side and fully grasp their intent and wishes.

Do you best to assume whatever role they want for you. If you truly aren't capable of assuming the responsibilities, make sure you tell them. That way they can either find someone else to assume the responsibilities, or help you find a way to be capable and ready when the time comes.

Remember, this is about them. They get to decide what to do with their money. They get to decide your role.

React with understanding. Try to make the conversation as comfortable for them as you possibly can. Be grateful that they are trusting you to be able to have this conversation with them. Don't offer advice unless and until it is asked for. And if they are asking for guidance or advice, make sure you give them the advice that is absolutely the best for them, even if it isn't the best for you. You should be acting in a fiduciary role.

Most of all, don't worry. In many difficult conversations, the worry is far, far worse than the actual conversation itself. Often the conversation ends up bringing us closer together.

(When I had these conversations with my parents before they passed, I was very surprised at a few of their wishes, as they went against what they had always suggested over the years. For them at least, their wishes changed as the end came into sight. My siblings and I worked hard to make sure their wishes were fulfilled.)
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by Sandtrap »

Parent: listen … you need to know these things.

Child: sure, what can I do to help?

Parent: nothing. Just listen

After listening……..

Child: I think you should….. it might be a good idea if….etc.

Parent: No. I don’t need you to change or do anything. Just listen. Thanks for the lasagna.

Real life example.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by rich126 »

This talk is probably best held before the parent is nearing the end. From a recent personal experience waiting until closer to the end makes it brutally painful and emotional. My father was very detailed in everything he did and had all of his affairs planned including paying for the burial plot (next to my mom and even bought one for me although now I'm married it may not be used).

When he was having medical issues over the last couple of months when I was with him at his apartment (in between trips to the rehab center and the hospital) he insisted on showing me his accounts, passwords, documents, etc. While I appreciated his concern for my brother and I, it was the last thing I had any interest in discussing since it basically involved his death and it was hard to keep it together emotionally.

Doing it early. Put a letter in a sealed envelope with a copy of a will or any documents you want the person to have and give it to them.

In some cases such as when someone is starting to have issues mentally, etc. it may be unavoidable but otherwise it ranks up there with conversations you have in a hospice with a loved one. Something critically important but very tough emotionally.

Anyhow, just my 2 cents having just buried my father on Monday and having gone through this the last few months.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Think of how easy and productive these type conversations could be/could have been had there been transparency of information prior to "having the talk."

My siblings and I knew how my father's estate (mother died many years before his death) would play out as it was shared to us when he set it up.

My DDs also know how DW's and my estates will play out as we shared it with them when we set things up.

If I am expecting my daughters to help (not financially) us as we age, it seems only fair to make their job as easy as is possible.

We have put health care advocacy and financial POA in their hands.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

rich126 wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:11 pm This talk is probably best held before the parent is nearing the end. From a recent personal experience waiting until closer to the end makes it brutally painful and emotional. My father was very detailed in everything he did and had all of his affairs planned including paying for the burial plot (next to my mom and even bought one for me although now I'm married it may not be used).

When he was having medical issues over the last couple of months when I was with him at his apartment (in between trips to the rehab center and the hospital) he insisted on showing me his accounts, passwords, documents, etc. While I appreciated his concern for my brother and I, it was the last thing I had any interest in discussing since it basically involved his death and it was hard to keep it together emotionally.

Doing it early. Put a letter in a sealed envelope with a copy of a will or any documents you want the person to have and give it to them.

In some cases such as when someone is starting to have issues mentally, etc. it may be unavoidable but otherwise it ranks up there with conversations you have in a hospice with a loved one. Something critically important but very tough emotionally.

Anyhow, just my 2 cents having just buried my father on Monday and having gone through this the last few months.
My condolences on your loss. Thank you for your suggestions.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Sandtrap wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:59 pm Parent: listen … you need to know these things.

Child: sure, what can I do to help?

Parent: nothing. Just listen

After listening……..

Child: I think you should….. it might be a good idea if….etc.

Parent: No. I don’t need you to change or do anything. Just listen. Thanks for the lasagna.

Real life example.
J🌺
That sounds like most of my conversations with this relative! 😅 Thanks!
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

JoeRetire wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:50 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:37 pm A parent o’mine who has always been very tight lipped about money wants to “have a conversation” with me about money in their late 80s. And I’m pretty sure it’s not to ask me for help paying credit cards or in getting a reverse mortgage. 😅 Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.

I have been hesitating to have this conversation, mostly because I don’t know what my role should be or how to best react in a way helpful to and respectful of them. I also think they will ask me to decide things I’m not ready to decide and ask me to assume responsibilities for which I may not feel I am ready.

If you have been through this Conversation, either as the parent or the offspring, and you have thoughts on how the offspring can make it more pleasant for the parent, I’d be grateful for any guidance. Obviously showing gratitude is on the menu, but aside from that?
Just be open to actually hearing and understanding what they have to say. Try to look at it from their side and fully grasp their intent and wishes.

Do you best to assume whatever role they want for you. If you truly aren't capable of assuming the responsibilities, make sure you tell them. That way they can either find someone else to assume the responsibilities, or help you find a way to be capable and ready when the time comes.

Remember, this is about them. They get to decide what to do with their money. They get to decide your role.

React with understanding. Try to make the conversation as comfortable for them as you possibly can. Be grateful that they are trusting you to be able to have this conversation with them. Don't offer advice unless and until it is asked for. And if they are asking for guidance or advice, make sure you give them the advice that is absolutely the best for them, even if it isn't the best for you. You should be acting in a fiduciary role.

Most of all, don't worry. In many difficult conversations, the worry is far, far worse than the actual conversation itself. Often the conversation ends up bringing us closer together.

(When I had these conversations with my parents before they passed, I was very surprised at a few of their wishes, as they went against what they had always suggested over the years. For them at least, their wishes changed as the end came into sight. My siblings and I worked hard to make sure their wishes were fulfilled.)
Very thoughtful insights, much appreciated.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Katietsu wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:07 pm The real estate seems to be the most unique aspect of this potential conversation. I understand that you and your mother have been frugal and self sufficient. However, sometimes these two things are not synonymous. I believe you said in one thread that you had a salary over a quarter of a million and in this thread mentioned quitting the job to manage the rentals. It seems that a property manager would be the more frugal choice even with the significant real estate property owned by your parents. I know that it might be difficult to get your mother to see it this way.
Yep- she has a bunch of properties in an area close to a resort area and I think she’d like me to take most of them over. But many of you on this board know my general view of the joys of property management, although now with WFH possibly going long term and NYC changing so much, perhaps I could reconsider. We had a small preview of the talk yesterday. I don’t know too much about her financial situation but she was never a high earner and I’d be quite surprised if she has any non-RE investments. She has a few WW2 souvenirs and a few minor antiques but highly unlikely that there are any 8M Albrecht Duerer engravings in there (sorry no umlauts).

Fortunately she is still mostly in good health aside from a heart condition that is well managed. I’m pretty sure she wants “a celebration of her life,” while she is still here to enjoy it, since she mentioned that a few years ago.

I’m the executor for both my parents estate plans (they are long divorced and not amicably - my mom left) and I have no idea what’s involved. I better get that state specific book on that. Fortunately my mom has an estate attorney and CPA. But I expect that selling will occur as there is no way I can manage property or oversee her assistant and tenants unless I metamorphose into WonderWoman. And quite obviously no one knows who will outlast whom in my family.

To inject a little levity:
Remember the song, papa was a rolling stone…? A friend of mine (whose father absolutely epitomized that song’s protagonist) thought the last line was “… all he left us was a LOAN!!” (Ir, unpaid debts)

I told him it was “ .. all he left us was ALONE!”

We almost lost my dad (who is definitely not a rolling stone) a few years ago. He fainted at the doctors office and was out cold for the longest two minutes of my life. EMS came and when he woke up his first words were questioning EMS and who they were, so we knew he was back!! But it was terrifying.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by dodecahedron »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:35 pm She has a few WW2 souvenirs and a few minor antiques but highly unlikely that there are any 8M Albrecht Duerer engravings in there (sorry no umlauts).
Easy way to get umlauts (or any other random diacritical marks) in a BH forum post is to copy/paste the word from another site that already has the typographically correct orthography in place, e.g., I copy/pasted this Albrecht Dürer from this recent NYT article about the unexpected (possible) discovery of one of his works at an unprepossessing estate sale. (Note that the umlaut survived the copy/paste operation but the Times typefont did not!)
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by capran »

I applaud your parent for wanting to talk to you about her plans. Many don't. It was during her daily cocktail hour that my mom said to me, as if in a passing thought, "I'm so glad you have done so well. That way your brother and sister, who need all the help they can get, will split the estate." We never spoke of it again, but at least I knew not to expect anything from the $2+ mil estate. As others have said, all you can do is listen and be there for her.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by Sandtrap »

rich126 wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:11 pm This talk is probably best held before the parent is nearing the end. From a recent personal experience waiting until closer to the end makes it brutally painful and emotional. My father was very detailed in everything he did and had all of his affairs planned including paying for the burial plot (next to my mom and even bought one for me although now I'm married it may not be used).

When he was having medical issues over the last couple of months when I was with him at his apartment (in between trips to the rehab center and the hospital) he insisted on showing me his accounts, passwords, documents, etc. While I appreciated his concern for my brother and I, it was the last thing I had any interest in discussing since it basically involved his death and it was hard to keep it together emotionally.

Doing it early. Put a letter in a sealed envelope with a copy of a will or any documents you want the person to have and give it to them.

In some cases such as when someone is starting to have issues mentally, etc. it may be unavoidable but otherwise it ranks up there with conversations you have in a hospice with a loved one. Something critically important but very tough emotionally.

Anyhow, just my 2 cents having just buried my father on Monday and having gone through this the last few months.
Thanks for sharing this.

Condolences
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

capran wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:56 pm I applaud your parent for wanting to talk to you about her plans. Many don't. It was during her daily cocktail hour that my mom said to me, as if in a passing thought, "I'm so glad you have done so well. That way your brother and sister, who need all the help they can get, will split the estate." We never spoke of it again, but at least I knew not to expect anything from the $2+ mil estate. As others have said, all you can do is listen and be there for her.
We’re forming a Responsible Kids support group if you’d like to join. Our motto will be “who us? We don’t need nuthin!” Written in Latin. And the first play on our reading list is “The Price,” by Arthur Miller (about two siblings, one a successful doctor and the other a resentful sibling, who meet to discuss the sale of their late father’s belongings, but the play is about the sibling relationship).
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by capran »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:19 pm
capran wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:56 pm I applaud your parent for wanting to talk to you about her plans. Many don't. It was during her daily cocktail hour that my mom said to me, as if in a passing thought, "I'm so glad you have done so well. That way your brother and sister, who need all the help they can get, will split the estate." We never spoke of it again, but at least I knew not to expect anything from the $2+ mil estate. As others have said, all you can do is listen and be there for her.
We’re forming a Responsible Kids support group if you’d like to join. Our motto will be “who us? We don’t need nuthin!” Written in Latin. And the first play on our reading list is “The Price,” by Arthur Miller (about two siblings, one a successful doctor and the other a resentful sibling, who meet to discuss the sale of their late father’s belongings, but the play is about the sibling relationship).
Love it! I was raised going to Catholic school from 4th through the 8th grade, back in the day when Mass was in Latin, so I might be good with that! I'll look that up. I do remember Arthur Millers "The Crucible" from Drama. LOL Merry Christmas PS I did ask if I could have the box of my Indian Guides stuff from the 50's, which included a small mink pelt that my bio-dad had skinned after finding it on the road, so at least it wasn't totally "nuthin"! Put myself through school with the GI Bill in the 70's and was frugal, so I did OK. (Not that some bit of an inheritance wouldn't have been nice.)
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

capran wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:47 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:19 pm
capran wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:56 pm I applaud your parent for wanting to talk to you about her plans. Many don't. It was during her daily cocktail hour that my mom said to me, as if in a passing thought, "I'm so glad you have done so well. That way your brother and sister, who need all the help they can get, will split the estate." We never spoke of it again, but at least I knew not to expect anything from the $2+ mil estate. As others have said, all you can do is listen and be there for her.
We’re forming a Responsible Kids support group if you’d like to join. Our motto will be “who us? We don’t need nuthin!” Written in Latin. And the first play on our reading list is “The Price,” by Arthur Miller (about two siblings, one a successful doctor and the other a resentful sibling, who meet to discuss the sale of their late father’s belongings, but the play is about the sibling relationship).
Love it! I was raised going to Catholic school from 4th through the 8th grade, back in the day when Mass was in Latin, so I might be good with that! I'll look that up. I do remember Arthur Millers "The Crucible" from Drama. LOL Merry Christmas PS I did ask if I could have the box of my Indian Guides stuff from the 50's, which included a small mink pelt that my bio-dad had skinned after finding it on the road, so at least it wasn't totally "nuthin"! Put myself through school with the GI Bill in the 70's and was frugal, so I did OK. (Not that some bit of an inheritance wouldn't have been nice.)
Excellent! Between the Indian Guide skills, Latin, frugality and military experience, you’d be great on our Board. We need the Latin for the above phrase and for, “hey, wait just a minute now!” 😅 The Price, like most lesser known works of great authors, exceeds the better known Arthur Miller plays by a lot.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by smectym »

Californiastate wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 11:04 am Usually general inheritance information is known before the waning years. These talks tend to notify people of changes which aren't always good. Somebody is cut out. Somebody is stuck caring for another less fortunate sibling. Somebody gets to meet their new 26 year old Ukranian mother.
GL
An insightful comment. May not be the case here, but perhaps OP may wish to consider it. Another possibility is that mom fears the financial stuff may just be starting to be a bit overwhelming. Perhaps wants OP to lend a hand.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by capran »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:19 pm
capran wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:47 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:19 pm
capran wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:56 pm I applaud your parent for wanting to talk to you about her plans. Many don't. It was during her daily cocktail hour that my mom said to me, as if in a passing thought, "I'm so glad you have done so well. That way your brother and sister, who need all the help they can get, will split the estate." We never spoke of it again, but at least I knew not to expect anything from the $2+ mil estate. As others have said, all you can do is listen and be there for her.
We’re forming a Responsible Kids support group if you’d like to join. Our motto will be “who us? We don’t need nuthin!” Written in Latin. And the first play on our reading list is “The Price,” by Arthur Miller (about two siblings, one a successful doctor and the other a resentful sibling, who meet to discuss the sale of their late father’s belongings, but the play is about the sibling relationship).
Love it! I was raised going to Catholic school from 4th through the 8th grade, back in the day when Mass was in Latin, so I might be good with that! I'll look that up. I do remember Arthur Millers "The Crucible" from Drama. LOL Merry Christmas PS I did ask if I could have the box of my Indian Guides stuff from the 50's, which included a small mink pelt that my bio-dad had skinned after finding it on the road, so at least it wasn't totally "nuthin"! Put myself through school with the GI Bill in the 70's and was frugal, so I did OK. (Not that some bit of an inheritance wouldn't have been nice.)
Excellent! Between the Indian Guide skills, Latin, frugality and military experience, you’d be great on our Board. We need the Latin for the above phrase and for, “hey, wait just a minute now!” 😅 The Price, like most lesser known works of great authors, exceeds the better known Arthur Miller plays by a lot.
I still know quite a bit of the mass content, especially The Confiteor!! (Which is really weird because that was almost 60 years ago). "Heus, expectare iustus a momento nunc!" according to one of my ex students who was so gifted, Johns Hopkins paid for him to take a college class at Gonzaga University when he was in the 8th grade, and he chose Latin! I'll look into looking up The Price.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by White Coat Investor »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:37 pm A parent o’mine who has always been very tight lipped about money wants to “have a conversation” with me about money in their late 80s. And I’m pretty sure it’s not to ask me for help paying credit cards or in getting a reverse mortgage. 😅 Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.

I have been hesitating to have this conversation, mostly because I don’t know what my role should be or how to best react in a way helpful to and respectful of them. I also think they will ask me to decide things I’m not ready to decide and ask me to assume responsibilities for which I may not feel I am ready.

If you have been through this Conversation, either as the parent or the offspring, and you have thoughts on how the offspring can make it more pleasant for the parent, I’d be grateful for any guidance. Obviously showing gratitude is on the menu, but aside from that?
I had this conversation recently and it turned out differently than everything else in this thread. Our parents called the meeting, but it ended up being me explaining to them how estate planning works! Turned out they didn't even have a will. So we'll be going to the estate planning attorney together (Zoom) for foundational documents and maybe even a little trust for the grandkids.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by m0derton »

dodecahedron wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:15 pm Easy way to get umlauts (or any other random diacritical marks) in a BH forum post is to copy/paste the word from another site that already has the typographically correct orthography in place, e.g., I copy/pasted this Albrecht Dürer from this recent NYT article about the unexpected (possible) discovery of one of his works at an unprepossessing estate sale. (Note that the umlaut survived the copy/paste operation but the Times typefont did not!)
If you hold down specific letters when typing a post, a popup will appear to choose special character options. Example: û ü ù ú ū were options when holding down the letter u.

edit: hmm, this appears to be a mac feature...not a forum feature. Windows apparently also has a method: hold the windows key and press the period key to get the emoji keyboard to pop up.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by Katietsu »

White Coat Investor wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:42 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:37 pm A parent o’mine who has always been very tight lipped about money wants to “have a conversation” with me about money in their late 80s. And I’m pretty sure it’s not to ask me for help paying credit cards or in getting a reverse mortgage. 😅 Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.

I have been hesitating to have this conversation, mostly because I don’t know what my role should be or how to best react in a way helpful to and respectful of them. I also think they will ask me to decide things I’m not ready to decide and ask me to assume responsibilities for which I may not feel I am ready.

If you have been through this Conversation, either as the parent or the offspring, and you have thoughts on how the offspring can make it more pleasant for the parent, I’d be grateful for any guidance. Obviously showing gratitude is on the menu, but aside from that?
I had this conversation recently and it turned out differently than everything else in this thread. Our parents called the meeting, but it ended up being me explaining to them how estate planning works! Turned out they didn't even have a will. So we'll be going to the estate planning attorney together (Zoom) for foundational documents and maybe even a little trust for the grandkids.
So, you never comped them a copy of your estate planning chapter from your book?😀
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by dogagility »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 9:19 pm
capran wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:47 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:19 pm
capran wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:56 pm I applaud your parent for wanting to talk to you about her plans. Many don't. It was during her daily cocktail hour that my mom said to me, as if in a passing thought, "I'm so glad you have done so well. That way your brother and sister, who need all the help they can get, will split the estate." We never spoke of it again, but at least I knew not to expect anything from the $2+ mil estate. As others have said, all you can do is listen and be there for her.
We’re forming a Responsible Kids support group if you’d like to join. Our motto will be “who us? We don’t need nuthin!” Written in Latin. And the first play on our reading list is “The Price,” by Arthur Miller (about two siblings, one a successful doctor and the other a resentful sibling, who meet to discuss the sale of their late father’s belongings, but the play is about the sibling relationship).
Love it! I was raised going to Catholic school from 4th through the 8th grade, back in the day when Mass was in Latin, so I might be good with that! I'll look that up. I do remember Arthur Millers "The Crucible" from Drama. LOL Merry Christmas PS I did ask if I could have the box of my Indian Guides stuff from the 50's, which included a small mink pelt that my bio-dad had skinned after finding it on the road, so at least it wasn't totally "nuthin"! Put myself through school with the GI Bill in the 70's and was frugal, so I did OK. (Not that some bit of an inheritance wouldn't have been nice.)
Excellent! Between the Indian Guide skills, Latin, frugality and military experience, you’d be great on our Board. We need the Latin for the above phrase and for, “hey, wait just a minute now!” 😅 The Price, like most lesser known works of great authors, exceeds the better known Arthur Miller plays by a lot.
This reminded me of Napolean Dynamite's skills needed to attract a girlfriend. "I don’t even have any good skills. You know like nunchuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills. Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills!” :)
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by Carefreeap »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:19 pm
capran wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 6:56 pm I applaud your parent for wanting to talk to you about her plans. Many don't. It was during her daily cocktail hour that my mom said to me, as if in a passing thought, "I'm so glad you have done so well. That way your brother and sister, who need all the help they can get, will split the estate." We never spoke of it again, but at least I knew not to expect anything from the $2+ mil estate. As others have said, all you can do is listen and be there for her.
We’re forming a Responsible Kids support group if you’d like to join. Our motto will be “who us? We don’t need nuthin!” Written in Latin. And the first play on our reading list is “The Price,” by Arthur Miller (about two siblings, one a successful doctor and the other a resentful sibling, who meet to discuss the sale of their late father’s belongings, but the play is about the sibling relationship).
Count me in!

Only in my case I knew better than to expect an inheritance but what I didn't expect was the close call of having to both physcially and financially support each of my fiscally irresponsible parents. Of course my brother had his hand out expecting something too. :oops:

I am so thankful for financial forums like this one which promote and demonstrate a more prudent (and less stressful) path. :beer
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by White Coat Investor »

Katietsu wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:35 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 2:42 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:37 pm A parent o’mine who has always been very tight lipped about money wants to “have a conversation” with me about money in their late 80s. And I’m pretty sure it’s not to ask me for help paying credit cards or in getting a reverse mortgage. 😅 Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.

I have been hesitating to have this conversation, mostly because I don’t know what my role should be or how to best react in a way helpful to and respectful of them. I also think they will ask me to decide things I’m not ready to decide and ask me to assume responsibilities for which I may not feel I am ready.

If you have been through this Conversation, either as the parent or the offspring, and you have thoughts on how the offspring can make it more pleasant for the parent, I’d be grateful for any guidance. Obviously showing gratitude is on the menu, but aside from that?
I had this conversation recently and it turned out differently than everything else in this thread. Our parents called the meeting, but it ended up being me explaining to them how estate planning works! Turned out they didn't even have a will. So we'll be going to the estate planning attorney together (Zoom) for foundational documents and maybe even a little trust for the grandkids.
So, you never comped them a copy of your estate planning chapter from your book?😀
They definitely got a comped copy of the book. Doubt they got through it though. The only financial book I know they ever got through was The CoffeeHouse Investor.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by doobiedoo »

I had a somewhat similar situation with my parents about 18 years ago.

My dad used to handle all of my parents' finances. When he started having some cognitive decline [e.g. he forgot to pay property taxes so they got an auction notice for their house, he threw away stock DRIP records so he didn't know how to file the tax return when the stock got sold, etc.], they asked to meet with me. My parents were also tight-lipped about money. [The only time I ever found out my dad's income was when I had to file a financial aid application for college when I was 17].

Like several other posters have suggested,
-- Ask questions and listen a lot.
-- Avoid criticizing.
-- Everything that's been done in the past, let it go.

Take your cue from what they want to do. Maybe this is just an FYI meeting.
Even if they are asking for help, you don't have to decide at the meeting.

If they do ask for open-ended suggestions or advice, don't create a big list of all the things that are wrong or could be done better. Maybe pick one thing to improve on -- either the most glaring problem or the simplest one to fix. There's no rush. You can always revisit the "laundry list".

In my parents case, I was shocked to find that they kept over $100k in cash at a local bank savings account. I didn't say anything at the time. And in the end, I never liquidated that account until after they both passed away. I think that cash was important for their peace of mind, regardless of the interest rate or lost opportunity.

In the beginning, I only agreed to get the property taxes paid and file a tax return. I did suggest we meet every week. They would save all their mail [they did not have email, so just USPS] and we would go thru it together when I visited. [I only lived 3 miles away.]

Soon I started writing checks for them. I would explain what they were for and my mom would sign them.
Eventually, they had to stop driving so I would take my mom to a local grocery store every weekend.

My parents had lots of individual stocks and a couple of mutual funds, but no retirement accounts. For the stocks they had actual paper certificates in a safety deposit box! I never suggested they sell anything. I never suggested a reallocation. [Although in hindsight, those stock certificates were a big pain in the ass to retitle after their deaths.]

Some of the things you are worried about did come to pass for me. But on the positive side, I ended up with a much closer relationship with my parents. Being able to talk about finances also meant it was much easier to talk about anything else.

Some posters have viewed this as a chore. I suggest you view it as an opportunity.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

This is an update post since there were so many thoughtful replies.

We’ve been having the Talk piecemeal by phone. But overall although I don’t want to sound ungrateful, I just dread the whole thing and would love to just renounce the entire situation. It just sounds like a massive drag. Partly because real estate was a contentious issue in their divorce.

The good news is all her tenants are paying etc. She’s up on all bills, not in debt, and on top of things generally. Her health isn’t too bad for 88, thankfully, despite heart issues.

She mainly wants to hand off the task of managing her rentals once she passes, something I have never done and would rather be shipped off to the Gulag than do. She seems to kind of assume that naturally I will agree to do all this stuff, like be her executor, manage her rentals, etc. I’m 55, I have a full time job and I don’t know anything about pipes, zoning and all the other horrors that go into residential real estate management. Plus, she nets maybe $50-70k a year on this stuff? And I make $300,000 pushing paper.

On the other hand, I’m used to those properties being there mentally, and with NYC returning to its former dystopian state - and then some -, and with my job offering WFH arrangements more broadly now long term, it would be an option to find a nice place some reasonable distance from the rentals I suppose, which are arguably in a nice tourist area and appreciating. Oh it’s a long story but I never wanted to manage real estate because I saw all the stuff my parents had to deal with. And I just find banging the tin pot for working people’s rent to be macabre. My mom sees it differently - RE has been great for her in the face of limited career options.

We have a family friend who could really use the extra money and likes renovating, maintaining and decorating homes. She has more time than I do and is close to my mom. Maybe I could just suggest she leave it to her instead? I know I can’t do that but even having to go out there and sell them sounds like a root canal.
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by Saving$ »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:27 pm She mainly wants to hand off the task of managing her rentals once she passes...
Who is inheriting these properties from her once she passes? Whomever that is can then manage them, or sell them at a stepped up basis.

If you are inheriting them, just hire an agent to sell them at a stepped up basis. Since you don't care if you even inherit them, you won't care about getting top dollar. Whatever you get is more than you had before you sell them.

Is someone else is inheriting them, they need to be responsible for deciding if they will hold them or sell and if they hold them, the management is their responsibility....
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Saving$ wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:01 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:27 pm She mainly wants to hand off the task of managing her rentals once she passes...
Who is inheriting these properties from her once she passes? Whomever that is can then manage them, or sell them at a stepped up basis.

If you are inheriting them, just hire an agent to sell them at a stepped up basis. Since you don't care if you even inherit them, you won't care about getting top dollar. Whatever you get is more than you had before you sell them.

Is someone else is inheriting them, they need to be responsible for deciding if they will hold them or sell and if they hold them, the management is their responsibility....
My sibling and I are inheriting them. They’ve been in the family since the 1970s so it would be emotionally hard to sell them but yes that would make it all easier. Even selling them though takes time and hassle.

It’s kind of a failure to not keep them up, keep them in the family and further develop them. They are in an appreciating area. My family owns five homes in that area so we were playing a private game of Monopoly. It could be a reasonable retirement income for me and I know the area. But RE is really a business and real work that I have no experience handling besides listening to endless stories of grief and hassle.

She basically wanted to know if I wanted to keep them or sell them and “what (I) was willing to do.”
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by 22twain »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:02 pm My sibling and I are inheriting them.
With joint ownership? That sounds like a recipe for trouble. How does your sibling feel about managing rental properties?
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

22twain wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:55 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:02 pm My sibling and I are inheriting them.
With joint ownership? That sounds like a recipe for trouble. How does your sibling feel about managing rental properties?
No, separate ownership, fortunately. They were divided equally by parcel and I got to choose. He could never manage them either, even if he wanted to. We both were never included in the business. But we know it’s a hassle that we could not manage. For us, these properties are too tied to our parents horrific and lengthy litigated divorce (they fought over RE), so we both just want to flee rather than deal and revisit all that. But both my parents are relatively healthy in their late 80s so maybe we won’t have to deal for a while.

But my parents (dad has RE too, more) see it as this world they built and they might be right that if we sold it all we’d feel guilty. His are divided by parcel too except one - he said he wanted to leave us “something to fight over.” My brother just wants to escape and I dont blame him. He and I don’t get along either so us handling things together won’t work. For both of us it’s just too imbued with emotional history. I could totally see them ending up abandoned or taken by the state. Because it’s going to be years of paperwork and hassle (tax filings, kicking the tenants out, whatever else) and I know we aren’t up for it.

I’m the executor for both but my health won’t hold up through their passing and then having to deal with all this.

This poor family friend could really use the $ and she has the time and has been close to my mom. She had a house not far from there, is my age and had no qualms about collecting rents or whatever. Maybe I could hire her, I don’t know.

I’ve heard property management companies are a hassle too if you arent their biggest client. I could quit my job and hang out and work one day a month collecting rents, but that is so awful too. I like my job. But at some point I will retire.

I don’t mean to sound ungrateful but it’s like leaving someone a steel mill when they can’t operate it.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by phxjcc »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:37 pm A parent o’mine who has always been very tight lipped about money wants to “have a conversation” with me about money in their late 80s. And I’m pretty sure it’s not to ask me for help paying credit cards or in getting a reverse mortgage. 😅 Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.

I have been hesitating to have this conversation, mostly because I don’t know what my role should be or how to best react in a way helpful to and respectful of them. I also think they will ask me to decide things I’m not ready to decide and ask me to assume responsibilities for which I may not feel I am ready.

If you have been through this Conversation, either as the parent or the offspring, and you have thoughts on how the offspring can make it more pleasant for the parent, I’d be grateful for any guidance. Obviously showing gratitude is on the menu, but aside from that?
Context first….
Me, son, only child, In my late 50’s, CxO level, forced retirement due to disability, solvent, self supporting.
Mother in her mid 80’s; career woman, CxO level.
Only child, father deceased, no -as in NO- other blood relatives for either of us,

Ok, now my advice:
Facts are facts and easier to deal with than emotional trauma of cognitive decline.
So….
Write everything down in a hard copy written theme book, ledger book, spiral notebook, whatever.
Agree that whenever changes are made that this book must be updated…by YOU; so if she makes changes SHE has to tell YOU.
All bank accounts and branch locations and contacts at the branch…you may not think so now, but just knowing that she only dealt with Flo for the past ten years will be of help later on…like when she loses her checkbook and you have to order new checks, STAT. True story for me.
Property information, how title is held, and deed location.
If there is a trust, get the originals and keep them at your residence.
Any valuables held in the residence itself, jewelry, cash, coin collections. I didn’t do this and found $X,000’s in the condo.
Insurance policy information….ALL of them…I was notified of one taken out in 1943…..that she didn’t tell me about.
Location of personal ID’s, DL, SSA CARD, MEDICARE CARD, RX PLAN CARD, MEDICARE PLUS CARD, Passport.
Details of monthly bills and income. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
Get three months bank statements and verify what you are told.
Location of keys and who has copies of her keys….including the mailbox key and safe deposit box key.

Now that the details are written down that document the inheritance, I suggest a break/rest period and get a coffee or Big Mac or something to get off the subject…maybe even say “this has been a LOT…so let’s continue tomorrow.”

Now…you need to agree on the best path forward….only you can answer this….but are you to take over household accounting now? If not now, then when? (I did it for the last 8 months, but have friends that did it for the last 12 years)

Then, even if there is a will with distributions down to the last penny, talk to her about how the inheritance is to be distributed….as in (I was literally told): “ Give Leila $5,000, but string it out over 10 or so months, because she is lousy with handling money”.

I am an only, so didn’t have to deal with the sibling stuff——cannot and should not advise on that.
As an only child, it was appropriate that I was added to the primary checking and a small savings account (“enough to put me in the ground” as mom told me.)

I can honestly say that having everything written down in one place and with the addition of small bequests written down (“give Francisco’s daughter $500”) makes it easier. What happens to the money when YOU pass needs to be discussed…”leave it to the disabled veterans” or “I’d like some to go the the animal shelter” that type of thing.

Last advice, the stress of being in this position is insidious and constant….drip, drip, drip, drip, drip…eventually the stress will show up…so find something to hit, golf balls, tennis balls, weights, Pilates machine, swimming, running, cycling, anything, something to physically burn it out of you and increase endorphin levels. I was in the best shape in years during this and have friends that did the same.

Good luck.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by jharkin »

I would be glad, humble, and very appreciative, that she wants to have this very prositive conversation with you about things that will likely be to your benefit long term.


Be glad you are not me, and millions of other people like me.
My parents refuse to discuss anything with me, because it’s likely a total mess. Neither have a dime in savings. One rents, the other probably owes more than the mortgaged house is worth. I suspect both play games with their tax returns. Both have serious chronic illness. They don’t want to tell me anything because they don’t want to burden me but I suspect after they pass I will have quite a bit to detangle and debts to settle, without a lot of information to go on beyond digging through papers and statements in their home.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

jharkin wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 7:08 am
I would be glad, humble, and very appreciative, that she wants to have this very prositive conversation with you about things that will likely be to your benefit long term.


Be glad you are not me, and millions of other people like me.
My parents refuse to discuss anything with me, because it’s likely a total mess. Neither have a dime in savings. One rents, the other probably owes more than the mortgaged house is worth. I suspect both play games with their tax returns. Both have serious chronic illness. They don’t want to tell me anything because they don’t want to burden me but I suspect after they pass I will have quite a bit to detangle and debts to settle, without a lot of information to go on beyond digging through papers and statements in their home.
I appreciate her intention and I am absolutely grateful that she has been self supporting most of my life rather than dependent on me or anyone. And of course I would want to help within reason.

I’m concerned that if it causes me to lose my job or my health, or distract me from other important life priorities, it would not be to my benefit.

There really should be some service you can pay $50k to to handle this stuff. I’m amazed there isn’t. It’s too important to leave to family members who may or may not he smart, organized, knowledgeable or even available. I hope one of the wealth managers puts together some kind of service package.

The parents of Gen X-ers spent a lot of time telling their kids (often referred to as latch key kids) they, the parents, weren’t responsible, that they, the kids, were too needy and not to expect anything, including parents who sacrificed for their good.

Many Gen X-ers, trauma scarred from their parents divorce, often single or dual income raising their own kids, are now surprised that their elders are expecting much from them, much less this extreme and time consuming solicitousness that they may never have bestowed on their kids. As a consequence of the Me Generation ethos, many X-ers aren’t in the position to provide this kind of emotional resourcefulness and courtesy even if they were inclined to do so. Cough, not that I would know.
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:54 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

phxjcc wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:11 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:37 pm A parent o’mine who has always been very tight lipped about money wants to “have a conversation” with me about money in their late 80s. And I’m pretty sure it’s not to ask me for help paying credit cards or in getting a reverse mortgage. 😅 Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.

I have been hesitating to have this conversation, mostly because I don’t know what my role should be or how to best react in a way helpful to and respectful of them. I also think they will ask me to decide things I’m not ready to decide and ask me to assume responsibilities for which I may not feel I am ready.

If you have been through this Conversation, either as the parent or the offspring, and you have thoughts on how the offspring can make it more pleasant for the parent, I’d be grateful for any guidance. Obviously showing gratitude is on the menu, but aside from that?
Context first….
Me, son, only child, In my late 50’s, CxO level, forced retirement due to disability, solvent, self supporting.
Mother in her mid 80’s; career woman, CxO level.
Only child, father deceased, no -as in NO- other blood relatives for either of us,

Ok, now my advice:
Facts are facts and easier to deal with than emotional trauma of cognitive decline.
So….
Write everything down in a hard copy written theme book, ledger book, spiral notebook, whatever.
Agree that whenever changes are made that this book must be updated…by YOU; so if she makes changes SHE has to tell YOU.
All bank accounts and branch locations and contacts at the branch…you may not think so now, but just knowing that she only dealt with Flo for the past ten years will be of help later on…like when she loses her checkbook and you have to order new checks, STAT. True story for me.
Property information, how title is held, and deed location.
If there is a trust, get the originals and keep them at your residence.
Any valuables held in the residence itself, jewelry, cash, coin collections. I didn’t do this and found $X,000’s in the condo.
Insurance policy information….ALL of them…I was notified of one taken out in 1943…..that she didn’t tell me about.
Location of personal ID’s, DL, SSA CARD, MEDICARE CARD, RX PLAN CARD, MEDICARE PLUS CARD, Passport.
Details of monthly bills and income. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
Get three months bank statements and verify what you are told.
Location of keys and who has copies of her keys….including the mailbox key and safe deposit box key.

Now that the details are written down that document the inheritance, I suggest a break/rest period and get a coffee or Big Mac or something to get off the subject…maybe even say “this has been a LOT…so let’s continue tomorrow.”

Now…you need to agree on the best path forward….only you can answer this….but are you to take over household accounting now? If not now, then when? (I did it for the last 8 months, but have friends that did it for the last 12 years)

Then, even if there is a will with distributions down to the last penny, talk to her about how the inheritance is to be distributed….as in (I was literally told): “ Give Leila $5,000, but string it out over 10 or so months, because she is lousy with handling money”.

I am an only, so didn’t have to deal with the sibling stuff——cannot and should not advise on that.
As an only child, it was appropriate that I was added to the primary checking and a small savings account (“enough to put me in the ground” as mom told me.)

I can honestly say that having everything written down in one place and with the addition of small bequests written down (“give Francisco’s daughter $500”) makes it easier. What happens to the money when YOU pass needs to be discussed…”leave it to the disabled veterans” or “I’d like some to go the the animal shelter” that type of thing.

Last advice, the stress of being in this position is insidious and constant….drip, drip, drip, drip, drip…eventually the stress will show up…so find something to hit, golf balls, tennis balls, weights, Pilates machine, swimming, running, cycling, anything, something to physically burn it out of you and increase endorphin levels. I was in the best shape in years during this and have friends that did the same.

Good luck.
I think your description is quite accurate and I like your practical tips for how to handle it.

I just don’t think this is a realistic ask of anyone. It’s another consequence of divorce, because her husband should be doing this, not me.
phxjcc
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by phxjcc »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 5:08 pm
phxjcc wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 1:11 am
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:37 pm A parent o’mine who has always been very tight lipped about money wants to “have a conversation” with me about money in their late 80s. And I’m pretty sure it’s not to ask me for help paying credit cards or in getting a reverse mortgage. 😅 Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.

I have been hesitating to have this conversation, mostly because I don’t know what my role should be or how to best react in a way helpful to and respectful of them. I also think they will ask me to decide things I’m not ready to decide and ask me to assume responsibilities for which I may not feel I am ready.

If you have been through this Conversation, either as the parent or the offspring, and you have thoughts on how the offspring can make it more pleasant for the parent, I’d be grateful for any guidance. Obviously showing gratitude is on the menu, but aside from that?
Context first….
Me, son, only child, In my late 50’s, CxO level, forced retirement due to disability, solvent, self supporting.
Mother in her mid 80’s; career woman, CxO level.
Only child, father deceased, no -as in NO- other blood relatives for either of us,

Ok, now my advice:
Facts are facts and easier to deal with than emotional trauma of cognitive decline.
So….
Write everything down in a hard copy written theme book, ledger book, spiral notebook, whatever.
Agree that whenever changes are made that this book must be updated…by YOU; so if she makes changes SHE has to tell YOU.
All bank accounts and branch locations and contacts at the branch…you may not think so now, but just knowing that she only dealt with Flo for the past ten years will be of help later on…like when she loses her checkbook and you have to order new checks, STAT. True story for me.
Property information, how title is held, and deed location.
If there is a trust, get the originals and keep them at your residence.
Any valuables held in the residence itself, jewelry, cash, coin collections. I didn’t do this and found $X,000’s in the condo.
Insurance policy information….ALL of them…I was notified of one taken out in 1943…..that she didn’t tell me about.
Location of personal ID’s, DL, SSA CARD, MEDICARE CARD, RX PLAN CARD, MEDICARE PLUS CARD, Passport.
Details of monthly bills and income. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.
Get three months bank statements and verify what you are told.
Location of keys and who has copies of her keys….including the mailbox key and safe deposit box key.

Now that the details are written down that document the inheritance, I suggest a break/rest period and get a coffee or Big Mac or something to get off the subject…maybe even say “this has been a LOT…so let’s continue tomorrow.”

Now…you need to agree on the best path forward….only you can answer this….but are you to take over household accounting now? If not now, then when? (I did it for the last 8 months, but have friends that did it for the last 12 years)

Then, even if there is a will with distributions down to the last penny, talk to her about how the inheritance is to be distributed….as in (I was literally told): “ Give Leila $5,000, but string it out over 10 or so months, because she is lousy with handling money”.

I am an only, so didn’t have to deal with the sibling stuff——cannot and should not advise on that.
As an only child, it was appropriate that I was added to the primary checking and a small savings account (“enough to put me in the ground” as mom told me.)

I can honestly say that having everything written down in one place and with the addition of small bequests written down (“give Francisco’s daughter $500”) makes it easier. What happens to the money when YOU pass needs to be discussed…”leave it to the disabled veterans” or “I’d like some to go the the animal shelter” that type of thing.

Last advice, the stress of being in this position is insidious and constant….drip, drip, drip, drip, drip…eventually the stress will show up…so find something to hit, golf balls, tennis balls, weights, Pilates machine, swimming, running, cycling, anything, something to physically burn it out of you and increase endorphin levels. I was in the best shape in years during this and have friends that did the same.

Good luck.
I think your description is quite accurate and I like your practical tips for how to handle it.

I just don’t think this is a realistic ask of anyone. It’s another consequence of divorce, because her husband should be doing this, not me.
It is a very tough thing to do…and same gender parent/child relationships are more difficult than opposite gender ones.

The last piece of sage advice?
You have to be constantly attentive, because the mind can go off like a light switch.
Mother was a CFO, two properties owned for 25 years and shared time equally between the two of them, and one day she did not know (and never did going forward) where one was.
Tried to walk to the grocery store 2 miles away, in Palm Springs, in August…120*+ degrees.
Got tired sat down on the curb….”and some nice young man gave me a ride home”.
No,I am NOT joking.

I keep thinking that someone is going to develop something between CCF and LTC ….kind of like a Dormitory for Seniors…but I have not seen it yet.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by Bogle101 »

What guidance is needed? Just go in with a helpful attitude and remember it’s not your money. Would be hilarious if you found out she’s leaving it all to a political party or something.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Oh my goodness! Scary.

We had a family friend whose wife used to wander off at night due to dementia. Formerly smart, cheery and on the ball.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Bogle101 wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 6:32 pm What guidance is needed? Just go in with a helpful attitude and remember it’s not your money. Would be hilarious if you found out she’s leaving it all to a political party or something.
Lol. She does donate to a number of causes…
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by gr7070 »

My goodness.

Just pay someone to sell them for you when you inherit them. Problem solved.

Or if that's somehow too much, donate them to a worthy charity.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Finally updating this thread as I promised to do. We never had The Talk. Instead, I learned details of her situation when she became ill and I had to assist her with the technicalities of bill paying and related affairs.

Fortunately she had a lot of things set up by an attorney to make this easier for us both.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by roamingzebra »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 1:37 pm Finally updating this thread as I promised to do. We never had The Talk. Instead, I learned details of her situation when she became ill and I had to assist her with the technicalities of bill paying and related affairs.

Fortunately she had a lot of things set up by an attorney to make this easier for us both.
Sorry about your mother.

One advantage you have that many of us don't is that you yourself are an attorney. Even if it's not your specialty, you probably are able to understand estate-related legal documents better than most. Every few years I try reading my parent's mostly undecipherable trust...a real headache. Slowly but surely I'm able to understand a bit more. But for awhile, it was a real roadblock. But as tax laws and priorities have changed over the years, I've felt forced to nail things down through listening to relevant podcasts, etc.

As for "the talk", that happened early on, and all the important information was committed in a thoughtful letter.
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Re: Having “The Talk” [with an elderly parent about Inheritance]

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

roamingzebra wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 4:21 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 1:37 pm Finally updating this thread as I promised to do. We never had The Talk. Instead, I learned details of her situation when she became ill and I had to assist her with the technicalities of bill paying and related affairs.

Fortunately she had a lot of things set up by an attorney to make this easier for us both.
Sorry about your mother.

One advantage you have that many of us don't is that you yourself are an attorney. Even if it's not your specialty, you probably are able to understand estate-related legal documents better than most. Every few years I try reading my parent's mostly undecipherable trust...a real headache. Slowly but surely I'm able to understand a bit more. But for awhile, it was a real roadblock. But as tax laws and priorities have changed over the years, I've felt forced to nail things down through listening to relevant podcasts, etc.

As for "the talk", that happened early on, and all the important information was committed in a thoughtful letter.
Thank you. Yes, being an attorney has been a huge help when interacting with the various bureaucracies: hospitals, her lawyer, insurance companies, assisted living, financial institutions, live-in aide services, and reviewing and providing documents prepared by others, arranging for her other bills to be paid, and of course protecting myself against being on the hook financially for bills for her care. We didn’t get too bogged down in the lingo. If I had not been a lawyer this likely would have been much more of a strain.

I guess I’ll offer a few lessons learned from my experience in the hope it benefits someone here - fortunately my mom did many of these:

1. Have an account where your family member has joint signatory authority. This will keep the lights on and taxes paid while you are recovering.
2. Have a living will and health care proxy and give copies to the relative. This will make things far easier when they call your doctors.
3. Have a durable power of attorney for financial matters prepared and give a copy to the relative. Reputable assisted living and nursing facilities require this.
4. Check out assisted living facilities in advance and meet the staff of the one you select.
5. For god’s sake, put your bills on autopay. Otherwise your family members will have to spend precious time when they could be visiting you, instead collecting, opening and dealing with your bills all month.
6. Please eat and drink enough in your old age even if you don’t feel like it. Even if prices went up. Getting sick or fainting from not eating or drinking enough is far more expensive than eating expensive food.
7. Do not keep old bills, shred them after paying and keep the receipts or just do autopay. Otherwise your relatives will have to sift through and shred.
8. Wind down your business activities while you still can. Do not wait until they run away with you.
9. Give your loved ones at least one symbolic gift a year. It can be a $10 box of chocolates. Just do it. The way you treat people in life actually matters far more than any money you give them.
10. One often finds the strength to do what one has to do when you have to do it. One may find that one is in fact able to deal with things that seemed difficult or scary earlier.
11. There are things that parents may do in a charitable vein that do not seem to make sense but actually have a sense you may not be privy to.
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Mon Feb 12, 2024 11:19 am, edited 3 times in total.
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