Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

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dailybagel
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Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by dailybagel »

I have a long-standing TreasuryDirect account, and the only bank account linked to TD is a defunct, closed account. I need to add a current bank account in order to buy Savings Bonds at TD in 2021.

I completed TreasuryDirect’s FS Form 5512, which requires a signature guarantee stamp or seal. I listed my Chase Bank savings account and another account at Marcus (Goldman Sachs Bank) on the form.

I took this to my local Chase Bank branch, and the banker there politely explained that he would need to submit it to the legal department for approval. After about a week, the banker called to inform me that after consideration, they must “decline” to perform the signature guarantee. I have emailed an request for reconsideration to the local branch banker I have been dealing with.

Has anyone had success convincing a local bank branch to offer a signature guarantee on a TreasuryDirect form? Are there any arguments I could deploy or any other approaches I could take? Chase is my only bank with local branches.
pizzy
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by pizzy »

Try again without the Marcus account listed.
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Candor
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by Candor »

What was their reasoning behind the refusal? Is Chase a member of a recognized Medallion Signature Guarantee Program? (STAMP, SEMP, MSP)
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johnwardon
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by johnwardon »

I had this issue. I went to a different Chase branch and found someone less familiar with Chase policy ;)
backpacker61
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by backpacker61 »

You all need a different bank.
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8foot7
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by 8foot7 »

This service is essentially the only truly legitimate (as in, difficult to impossible to duplicate but very necessary with no reasonable alternative) reason to keep a brick and mortar bank relationship going. Close account, move somewhere else that will do it.
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JoMoney
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by JoMoney »

I got locked out of my TD account last year after trying to add a bank account. I opened an account with Chase primarily to get a signature guarantee. On my first attempt, they refused under the premise that I needed some sort of statement and documentation with my name and account number on it (which I couldn't get because TD doesn't have "statements", and I was currently locked out of the web form...) After talking to TD customer service # they connected me to someone who was able to help me get access to the account, but not to add a bank, I printed off screen shots of the account page with my info and made another trip back to Chase to see if that was sufficient. On my second visit there was a different person working, they looked at the form and said something to the effect of, "Oh, we get these all the time" and Medallion stamped the form without even looking at any of the account screen shots I printed out :?

According to the TD site, a court clerk can also verify, I had tried that when I initially had problems last year, but the court offices here were closed for COVID panic. You might see if whatever court is in your area has a clerk or judge that will assist in verifying your signature (with court seal).
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/re ... igcert.htm
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tibbitts
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by tibbitts »

My Chase branch did require statements (or printouts from web pages) to verify all the account numbers (not just the TD account, but the listed bank accounts that weren't Chase) on the form, but once I had those, provided the guarantee.
Buy_N_Hold
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by Buy_N_Hold »

Having previously worked for Chase in the branch, I have two comments:

1) Try a different branch or banker. Nervous bankers will sometimes decline to handle a transaction for no legitimate reason, other than not wanting to make a mistake. Chase puts a lot of pressure on employees not to land them in hot water legally, so if the employee is new-ish or has any doubt about the situation they will sometimes just say no.

2) It’s possible that the legal department really is declining the signature guarantee. In that case, not much you can do besides opening an account at a different bank and try your luck. Chase has all kinds of policies that don’t make a whole lot of sense.

Best of luck!
Last edited by Buy_N_Hold on Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JoMoney
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by JoMoney »

If you do take the advice others have suggested regarding opening a new account at a different bank, be sure to verify the branch near you offers Medallion, and be aware that some banks (especially the other big national banks) require a minimum amount of time having an account with them before offering it.

There are places that will do a Medallion stamp through online/mail, but charge something like $150. I wouldn't pay for it, especially not that much, but pointing out that is something out there.

If there is another Chase branch in your town or another neighboring town I would try there. Having gotten MSG from a Chase branch myself less then a year ago on that form, but also having experienced some initial refusal from a different rep on a different visit, I don't think they've suddenly changed.
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UpperNwGuy
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by UpperNwGuy »

And this thread is why I refuse to do business with Treasury Direct, and why I won't open a checking or savings account with Chase despite using several of their credit cards.
bltn
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by bltn »

I guess I don t understand the purpose of a medallion signature guarantee. I have only had to have this a few times in my life and have never had a problem with my current bank at the time. I thought it was simply an identity verification. A picture id and a bank account number always got me the guarantee. Am I missing something?
airborne
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by airborne »

My local Chase branch manager stamped my TD form with a signature guarantee without much fuss. At first they thought they needed a Medallion whatever but when it was determined a simple signature guarantee would do the job they had me on my way quickly.

I echo those who say try another branch and make it clear a medallion isn't necessary.
backpacker61
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by backpacker61 »

bltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:07 pm I guess I don t understand the purpose of a medallion signature guarantee. I have only had to have this a few times in my life and have never had a problem with my current bank at the time. I thought it was simply an identity verification. A picture id and a bank account number always got me the guarantee. Am I missing something?
When the bank affixes their Medallion Guarantee, they are fully liable for any cost incurred if it turns out you are falsely representing yourself.
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frugalNOTcheap
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by frugalNOTcheap »

My wife and I purchased individual $10k I-Bonds earlier this year (in addition to a $10k I-Bond registered to our trust). We are in the process of transferring the individual bonds to the trust (Form 1851). This requires a dreaded signature guarantee. Our local Chase branch was unwilling to perform unless they consulted with their legal team first. We ended up going to our local Fidelity office and they gladly did it without any issues.
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HanSolo
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by HanSolo »

backpacker61 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:17 pm
bltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:07 pm I guess I don t understand the purpose of a medallion signature guarantee. I have only had to have this a few times in my life and have never had a problem with my current bank at the time. I thought it was simply an identity verification. A picture id and a bank account number always got me the guarantee. Am I missing something?
When the bank affixes their Medallion Guarantee, they are fully liable for any cost incurred if it turns out you are falsely representing yourself.
If the bank is concerned that the customer is an imposter, it's interesting that they still allow them to withdraw money.
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anon_investor
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by anon_investor »

backpacker61 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:17 pm
bltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:07 pm I guess I don t understand the purpose of a medallion signature guarantee. I have only had to have this a few times in my life and have never had a problem with my current bank at the time. I thought it was simply an identity verification. A picture id and a bank account number always got me the guarantee. Am I missing something?
When the bank affixes their Medallion Guarantee, they are fully liable for any cost incurred if it turns out you are falsely representing yourself.
FYI Treasury Direct only requires a lesser signature guarantee, not a full Medallion Signature Guarantee.
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beyou
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by beyou »

HanSolo wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:37 pm
backpacker61 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:17 pm
bltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:07 pm I guess I don t understand the purpose of a medallion signature guarantee. I have only had to have this a few times in my life and have never had a problem with my current bank at the time. I thought it was simply an identity verification. A picture id and a bank account number always got me the guarantee. Am I missing something?
When the bank affixes their Medallion Guarantee, they are fully liable for any cost incurred if it turns out you are falsely representing yourself.
If the bank is concerned that the customer is an imposter, it's interesting that they still allow them to withdraw money.
And for that reason if my bank wont do the sig guarantee, I would close my accounts there. They get free or cheap use of our money in exchange for services they provide. No service, no money.
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anon_investor
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by anon_investor »

beyou wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:16 pm
HanSolo wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:37 pm
backpacker61 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:17 pm
bltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:07 pm I guess I don t understand the purpose of a medallion signature guarantee. I have only had to have this a few times in my life and have never had a problem with my current bank at the time. I thought it was simply an identity verification. A picture id and a bank account number always got me the guarantee. Am I missing something?
When the bank affixes their Medallion Guarantee, they are fully liable for any cost incurred if it turns out you are falsely representing yourself.
If the bank is concerned that the customer is an imposter, it's interesting that they still allow them to withdraw money.
And for that reason if my bank wont do the sig guarantee, I would close my accounts there. They get free or cheap use of our money in exchange for services they provide. No service, no money.
+1.
tibbitts
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by tibbitts »

beyou wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:16 pm
HanSolo wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:37 pm
backpacker61 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:17 pm
bltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:07 pm I guess I don t understand the purpose of a medallion signature guarantee. I have only had to have this a few times in my life and have never had a problem with my current bank at the time. I thought it was simply an identity verification. A picture id and a bank account number always got me the guarantee. Am I missing something?
When the bank affixes their Medallion Guarantee, they are fully liable for any cost incurred if it turns out you are falsely representing yourself.
If the bank is concerned that the customer is an imposter, it's interesting that they still allow them to withdraw money.
And for that reason if my bank wont do the sig guarantee, I would close my accounts there. They get free or cheap use of our money in exchange for services they provide. No service, no money.
That would only help you if another bank would. Not say they would when you ask, but actually would. Ultimately if you leave every service provider because you're angry about something they do, you'll run out of them. Even banks. And make a lot of work for yourself in the process.
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anon_investor
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by anon_investor »

tibbitts wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:21 pm
beyou wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:16 pm
HanSolo wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:37 pm
backpacker61 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:17 pm
bltn wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:07 pm I guess I don t understand the purpose of a medallion signature guarantee. I have only had to have this a few times in my life and have never had a problem with my current bank at the time. I thought it was simply an identity verification. A picture id and a bank account number always got me the guarantee. Am I missing something?
When the bank affixes their Medallion Guarantee, they are fully liable for any cost incurred if it turns out you are falsely representing yourself.
If the bank is concerned that the customer is an imposter, it's interesting that they still allow them to withdraw money.
And for that reason if my bank wont do the sig guarantee, I would close my accounts there. They get free or cheap use of our money in exchange for services they provide. No service, no money.
That would only help you if another bank would. Not say they would when you ask, but actually would. Ultimately if you leave every service provider because you're angry about something they do, you'll run out of them. Even banks. And make a lot of work for yourself in the process.
Other banks definitely do give the necessary signature guarantee. I keep b&m accounts for such services.
tibbitts
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by tibbitts »

anon_investor wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:24 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:21 pm
beyou wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:16 pm
HanSolo wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:37 pm
backpacker61 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:17 pm

When the bank affixes their Medallion Guarantee, they are fully liable for any cost incurred if it turns out you are falsely representing yourself.
If the bank is concerned that the customer is an imposter, it's interesting that they still allow them to withdraw money.
And for that reason if my bank wont do the sig guarantee, I would close my accounts there. They get free or cheap use of our money in exchange for services they provide. No service, no money.
That would only help you if another bank would. Not say they would when you ask, but actually would. Ultimately if you leave every service provider because you're angry about something they do, you'll run out of them. Even banks. And make a lot of work for yourself in the process.
Other banks definitely do give the necessary signature guarantee. I keep b&m accounts for such services.
But as we've seen from the responses, some of those other banks that give guarantees are Chase branches. So if you eliminate all eight zillion Chase branches by closing your account, what happens when a branch of the next bank you choose turns you down? And the next one?
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beyou
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by beyou »

tibbitts wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:36 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:24 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:21 pm
beyou wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:16 pm
HanSolo wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:37 pm

If the bank is concerned that the customer is an imposter, it's interesting that they still allow them to withdraw money.
And for that reason if my bank wont do the sig guarantee, I would close my accounts there. They get free or cheap use of our money in exchange for services they provide. No service, no money.
That would only help you if another bank would. Not say they would when you ask, but actually would. Ultimately if you leave every service provider because you're angry about something they do, you'll run out of them. Even banks. And make a lot of work for yourself in the process.
Other banks definitely do give the necessary signature guarantee. I keep b&m accounts for such services.
But as we've seen from the responses, some of those other banks that give guarantees are Chase branches. So if you eliminate all eight zillion Chase branches by closing your account, what happens when a branch of the next bank you choose turns you down? And the next one?
I do not chase bonuses. I have same bank accounts for many years. If despite this fact my bank wont vouch for me, time to move on.
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anon_investor
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by anon_investor »

tibbitts wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:36 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:24 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:21 pm
beyou wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:16 pm
HanSolo wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:37 pm

If the bank is concerned that the customer is an imposter, it's interesting that they still allow them to withdraw money.
And for that reason if my bank wont do the sig guarantee, I would close my accounts there. They get free or cheap use of our money in exchange for services they provide. No service, no money.
That would only help you if another bank would. Not say they would when you ask, but actually would. Ultimately if you leave every service provider because you're angry about something they do, you'll run out of them. Even banks. And make a lot of work for yourself in the process.
Other banks definitely do give the necessary signature guarantee. I keep b&m accounts for such services.
But as we've seen from the responses, some of those other banks that give guarantees are Chase branches. So if you eliminate all eight zillion Chase branches by closing your account, what happens when a branch of the next bank you choose turns you down? And the next one?
I have an account at BoA, one of their zillion branches can help me. :sharebeer
tibbitts
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by tibbitts »

anon_investor wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:40 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:36 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:24 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:21 pm
beyou wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:16 pm

And for that reason if my bank wont do the sig guarantee, I would close my accounts there. They get free or cheap use of our money in exchange for services they provide. No service, no money.
That would only help you if another bank would. Not say they would when you ask, but actually would. Ultimately if you leave every service provider because you're angry about something they do, you'll run out of them. Even banks. And make a lot of work for yourself in the process.
Other banks definitely do give the necessary signature guarantee. I keep b&m accounts for such services.
But as we've seen from the responses, some of those other banks that give guarantees are Chase branches. So if you eliminate all eight zillion Chase branches by closing your account, what happens when a branch of the next bank you choose turns you down? And the next one?
I have an account at BoA, one of their zillion branches can help me. :sharebeer
Maybe; we haven't surveyed all the zillion BoA (or WF, etc.) branches to see how they would handle this request. My only point is that if you close your Chase account, maybe next week you'll want something that Chase would have done for you but BoA (or WF, etc.) won't. So maybe the solution is more bank accounts, not simply replacing one bank with another one, although that complicates your financial life and makes dealing with your estate more difficult.
Big Dog
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by Big Dog »

Many retail banks have bee getting out of the signature guarantee business for years. (My BofA Mgr said that they sill perform it for their ML customers, and if I wanted to open a brokerage acct....)

Regardless, the feds know that banks no longer provide this service widely, so Treasury will accept a Notary sig with a short letter from you stating that your local bank no longer does sig guarantees. (Call TD to confirm.) I've done this several times for Treasury Direct with no issues.
TXGator
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by TXGator »

Big Dog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am Many retail banks have bee getting out of the signature guarantee business for years. (My BofA Mgr said that they sill perform it for their ML customers, and if I wanted to open a brokerage acct....)

Regardless, the feds know that banks no longer provide this service widely, so Treasury will accept a Notary sig with a short letter from you stating that your local bank no longer does sig guarantees. (Call TD to confirm.) I've done this several times for Treasury Direct with no issues.
I've had issues with BoA giving a MSG for computershare transfers asking for additional documentation that does not exisit, would not recommend them

If you have to get it done and ok with paying there is https://esignatureguarantee.com/ which computershare recommended for us. We have not tried it out yet
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anon_investor
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by anon_investor »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:10 am
anon_investor wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:40 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:36 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:24 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:21 pm
That would only help you if another bank would. Not say they would when you ask, but actually would. Ultimately if you leave every service provider because you're angry about something they do, you'll run out of them. Even banks. And make a lot of work for yourself in the process.
Other banks definitely do give the necessary signature guarantee. I keep b&m accounts for such services.
But as we've seen from the responses, some of those other banks that give guarantees are Chase branches. So if you eliminate all eight zillion Chase branches by closing your account, what happens when a branch of the next bank you choose turns you down? And the next one?
I have an account at BoA, one of their zillion branches can help me. :sharebeer
Maybe; we haven't surveyed all the zillion BoA (or WF, etc.) branches to see how they would handle this request. My only point is that if you close your Chase account, maybe next week you'll want something that Chase would have done for you but BoA (or WF, etc.) won't. So maybe the solution is more bank accounts, not simply replacing one bank with another one, although that complicates your financial life and makes dealing with your estate more difficult.
I have never actually had a Chase account. But it sounds like I wouldn't want one at this point.
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anon_investor
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by anon_investor »

TXGator wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:21 am
Big Dog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am Many retail banks have bee getting out of the signature guarantee business for years. (My BofA Mgr said that they sill perform it for their ML customers, and if I wanted to open a brokerage acct....)

Regardless, the feds know that banks no longer provide this service widely, so Treasury will accept a Notary sig with a short letter from you stating that your local bank no longer does sig guarantees. (Call TD to confirm.) I've done this several times for Treasury Direct with no issues.
I've had issues with BoA giving a MSG for computershare transfers asking for additional documentation that does not exisit, would not recommend them

If you have to get it done and ok with paying there is https://esignatureguarantee.com/ which computershare recommended for us. We have not tried it out yet
Were you trying to transfer the computershare holdings to a Merrill Edge account?
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anon_investor
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by anon_investor »

Big Dog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am Many retail banks have bee getting out of the signature guarantee business for years. (My BofA Mgr said that they sill perform it for their ML customers, and if I wanted to open a brokerage acct....)

Regardless, the feds know that banks no longer provide this service widely, so Treasury will accept a Notary sig with a short letter from you stating that your local bank no longer does sig guarantees. (Call TD to confirm.) I've done this several times for Treasury Direct with no issues.
Interesting. I plan to go get a SG from BoA at some point to add my BoA checking to Treasury Direct. I am going to assume they will help me since my branch offers MSG, I also have a Merrill Edge account with them and I am trying to add a BoA account (not some other bank) to Treasury Direct.
dsb012
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by dsb012 »

Just went through this a few weeks ago as I incorrectly entered the checking account number on Treasury Direct.

We have Wells Fargo (after many acquisitions). Called up the closest branch which told us they don't do it there but the other one down the street does. Called them made the appointment, in and out in 10 mins.

I don't think you have to have a medallion seal for this IRS form. We clearly didn't get one and if I remember correctly the bank employee made a comment about that being a bit more of a process. Our's was just some rubber stamp and the employees signature. Just a few days later I had an email from Treasury Direct that is was all completed.
TXGator
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by TXGator »

anon_investor wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:43 pm
TXGator wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:21 am
Big Dog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am Many retail banks have bee getting out of the signature guarantee business for years. (My BofA Mgr said that they sill perform it for their ML customers, and if I wanted to open a brokerage acct....)

Regardless, the feds know that banks no longer provide this service widely, so Treasury will accept a Notary sig with a short letter from you stating that your local bank no longer does sig guarantees. (Call TD to confirm.) I've done this several times for Treasury Direct with no issues.
I've had issues with BoA giving a MSG for computershare transfers asking for additional documentation that does not exisit, would not recommend them

If you have to get it done and ok with paying there is https://esignatureguarantee.com/ which computershare recommended for us. We have not tried it out yet
Were you trying to transfer the computershare holdings to a Merrill Edge account?
We were just trying to get the MSG to remove my deceased mother from her joint computershare accounts with my father and they had asked for court filings which we did not have to do in Florida. The dead cert was good for computershare but not for the MSG with BoA. Very frustrating.
SmallSaver
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by SmallSaver »

Local credit union did it no problem, and generally likes doing this kind of thing as it builds relationships with members and is a way to compete with the big banks and online finance. They don't do it until you've been a member for a bit though. It is frustrating to have to go through all this rigmarole for a TD account that is an order of magnitude smaller than my other bank/brokerage accounts.
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anon_investor
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by anon_investor »

TXGator wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:11 pm
anon_investor wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:43 pm
TXGator wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:21 am
Big Dog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am Many retail banks have bee getting out of the signature guarantee business for years. (My BofA Mgr said that they sill perform it for their ML customers, and if I wanted to open a brokerage acct....)

Regardless, the feds know that banks no longer provide this service widely, so Treasury will accept a Notary sig with a short letter from you stating that your local bank no longer does sig guarantees. (Call TD to confirm.) I've done this several times for Treasury Direct with no issues.
I've had issues with BoA giving a MSG for computershare transfers asking for additional documentation that does not exisit, would not recommend them

If you have to get it done and ok with paying there is https://esignatureguarantee.com/ which computershare recommended for us. We have not tried it out yet
Were you trying to transfer the computershare holdings to a Merrill Edge account?
We were just trying to get the MSG to remove my deceased mother from her joint computershare accounts with my father and they had asked for court filings which we did not have to do in Florida. The dead cert was good for computershare but not for the MSG with BoA. Very frustrating.
Weird situation. Wouldn't Computershare just remove her with a copy of a death certificate? Computershare is pretty annoying, happy to have transfered all our shares out of Computershare to Vanguard.
TXGator
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by TXGator »

Computershare is requiring a MSG, but the stocks that had Broadridge the death cert sufficed :oops:
Swimmer
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by Swimmer »

dsb012 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:59 pm Just went through this a few weeks ago as I incorrectly entered the checking account number on Treasury Direct.

We have Wells Fargo (after many acquisitions). Called up the closest branch which told us they don't do it there but the other one down the street does. Called them made the appointment, in and out in 10 mins.

I don't think you have to have a medallion seal for this IRS form. We clearly didn't get one and if I remember correctly the bank employee made a comment about that being a bit more of a process. Our's was just some rubber stamp and the employees signature. Just a few days later I had an email from Treasury Direct that is was all completed.

+1 I took the form into a small local bank and had no problem getting the signature guarantee. No medallion required. I will add that I needed to speak with TD twice (not wrt bank change) in the past month. They were extremely knowledgeable, courteous, and easy to access.
Big Dog
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by Big Dog »

TXGator wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:37 pm Computershare is requiring a MSG, but the stocks that had Broadridge the death cert sufficed :oops:
computershare also allows you to pay a $50 filing fee in line of a msg.
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dailybagel
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by dailybagel »

pizzy wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:34 pm Try again without the Marcus account listed.
I understand this suggestion, and it might help, but I’m really hoping to get my Marcus account linked to TreasuryDirect.
Candor wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:43 pm What was their reasoning behind the refusal? Is Chase a member of a recognized Medallion Signature Guarantee Program? (STAMP, SEMP, MSP)
Unfortunately, no reasoning was provided.

For the record, the TreasuryDirect form just needs a “signature guarantee” stamp, not the full Medallion.
tomsense76
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by tomsense76 »

dailybagel wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:31 pm Unfortunately, no reasoning was provided.

For the record, the TreasuryDirect form just needs a “signature guarantee” stamp, not the full Medallion.
That's correct only signature guarantee is needed, which a bank branch manager can provide. Did the same at BOA.

However their response of needing to go to the legal department makes it sound like they were trying to do a Medallion. Either would try to explain this to the branch manager or just go to a different branch.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
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JoMoney
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by JoMoney »

tomsense76 wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:51 pm
dailybagel wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 9:31 pm Unfortunately, no reasoning was provided.

For the record, the TreasuryDirect form just needs a “signature guarantee” stamp, not the full Medallion.
That's correct only signature guarantee is needed, which a bank branch manager can provide. Did the same at BOA.

However their response of needing to go to the legal department makes it sound like they were trying to do a Medallion. Either would try to explain this to the branch manager or just go to a different branch.
The other option is for a bank or credit union officer to verify and affix the banks stamp/seal, I went through great lengths trying to get the credit union I was with to do that (since they had stopped doing Medallion completely.) After them going through various calls and examining the form and the instructions that I had printed out from TD and made available to them, they refused, apologizing and explaining they did offer "notary" (which TD explicitly doesn't accept.) :annoyed
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beyou
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by beyou »

Big Dog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am Many retail banks have bee getting out of the signature guarantee business for years. (My BofA Mgr said that they sill perform it for their ML customers, and if I wanted to open a brokerage acct....)

Regardless, the feds know that banks no longer provide this service widely, so Treasury will accept a Notary sig with a short letter from you stating that your local bank no longer does sig guarantees. (Call TD to confirm.) I've done this several times for Treasury Direct with no issues.
This seems a reasonable response.
Why is this not more widely reported ?
TXGator
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by TXGator »

Big Dog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:10 pm
TXGator wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:37 pm Computershare is requiring a MSG, but the stocks that had Broadridge the death cert sufficed :oops:
computershare also allows you to pay a $50 filing fee in line of a msg.
They never brought that up - but worth it at this point!
Big Dog
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by Big Dog »

TXGator wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:07 am
Big Dog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:10 pm
TXGator wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:37 pm Computershare is requiring a MSG, but the stocks that had Broadridge the death cert sufficed :oops:
computershare also allows you to pay a $50 filing fee in line of a msg.
They never brought that up - but worth it at this point!
I found it online on their website as an alternate to msg.
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JoMoney
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by JoMoney »

beyou wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:42 pm
Big Dog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am Many retail banks have bee getting out of the signature guarantee business for years. (My BofA Mgr said that they sill perform it for their ML customers, and if I wanted to open a brokerage acct....)

Regardless, the feds know that banks no longer provide this service widely, so Treasury will accept a Notary sig with a short letter from you stating that your local bank no longer does sig guarantees. (Call TD to confirm.) I've done this several times for Treasury Direct with no issues.
This seems a reasonable response.
Why is this not more widely reported ?
That would be most helpful to those of us running into problems. Getting a bank to notarize you signing a document is a breeze. When I was having issues I was told explicitly from TD customer service that notary is not acceptable, it's also printed right on the form 5512 "Notary certification is not acceptable."
If I was still having problems though, I might be tempted to try it even without first checking with TD to confirm... I don't see what it could hurt other than the cost of a postage stamp. Although, I could imagine a notary giving some push-back with the form saying their certification is not acceptable printed right on the document.
https://treasurydirect.gov/forms/sec5512.pdf
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
BrokerageZelda
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by BrokerageZelda »

It may help to ask up front whether a branch is able to redeem paper savings bonds, because a savings bond paying agent stamp is an acceptable validation. If someone at the branch is available to redeem paper savings bonds, they can validate that form.

This was my experience when visiting my local credit union; the branch had no one available to provide a Medallion, but the branch manager read the form instructions and pulled out the savings bond paying agent stamp instead. The form was accepted by TreasuryDirect.
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JoMoney
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by JoMoney »

BrokerageZelda wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:38 am It may help to ask up front whether a branch is able to redeem paper savings bonds, because a savings bond paying agent stamp is an acceptable validation. If someone at the branch is available to redeem paper savings bonds, they can validate that form.

This was my experience when visiting my local credit union; the branch had no one available to provide a Medallion, but the branch manager read the form instructions and pulled out the savings bond paying agent stamp instead. The form was accepted by TreasuryDirect.
The trick is finding someone that will agree to that as well, I pointed out that option to my credit union (that no longer did Medallion and to the Chase person that initially refused me a medallion), neither would do it (despite admitting they would redeem paper savings bonds). The credit union explicitly told me they would ONLY offer me a notary.
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beyou
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by beyou »

JoMoney wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:29 am
beyou wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:42 pm
Big Dog wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:17 am Many retail banks have bee getting out of the signature guarantee business for years. (My BofA Mgr said that they sill perform it for their ML customers, and if I wanted to open a brokerage acct....)

Regardless, the feds know that banks no longer provide this service widely, so Treasury will accept a Notary sig with a short letter from you stating that your local bank no longer does sig guarantees. (Call TD to confirm.) I've done this several times for Treasury Direct with no issues.
This seems a reasonable response.
Why is this not more widely reported ?
That would be most helpful to those of us running into problems. Getting a bank to notarize you signing a document is a breeze. When I was having issues I was told explicitly from TD customer service that notary is not acceptable, it's also printed right on the form 5512 "Notary certification is not acceptable."
If I was still having problems though, I might be tempted to try it even without first checking with TD to confirm... I don't see what it could hurt other than the cost of a postage stamp. Although, I could imagine a notary giving some push-back with the form saying their certification is not acceptable printed right on the document.
https://treasurydirect.gov/forms/sec5512.pdf
I have assumed one cannot use a notary. Plan to keep the bank accounts I gave TD many years ago to avoid hassles in the future.
I don't chase bank bonuses, not worth the hassle of managing so many accounts or closing them and then having to update not only TD but
others that make it easier but not zero effort to change banks.

Just in case, I confirmed that IN THEORY my local bank (Citibank) claims they do MSG at some branches. Never tried.
I also found that a popular local credit union does MSG, could open an account there in the future if needed.
Finally there is the online service mentioned above where for a mere $150 (ha ha) you can get them to do what supposedly can't be done
(isn't this supposed to be in person signature witness and more ?).
Last edited by beyou on Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JoMoney
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by JoMoney »

beyou wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:41 am...
Finally there is the online service mentioned above where for a mere $150 (ha ha) you can get them to do what supposedly can't be done
(isn't this supposed to be in person signature witness and more ?).
There's a handful of such services online if you're willing to pay for it, the price points all seem to be around $150... It would have to be pretty extreme for me to go that route. I lucked out and got paid a cash bonus to open an account with Chase, and got them to eventually give me a MSG after trying a couple times. I would recommend OP try a different branch before giving up on Chase.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
lws
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by lws »

This reminds me to keep my credit union account for life. They are my bank for TD.
I'll ask my local Chase if they do signature guarantee.
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Re: Chase branch declines signature guarantee for TreasuryDirect form

Post by JackoC »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:10 am
Maybe; we haven't surveyed all the zillion BoA (or WF, etc.) branches to see how they would handle this request. My only point is that if you close your Chase account, maybe next week you'll want something that Chase would have done for you but BoA (or WF, etc.) won't. So maybe the solution is more bank accounts, not simply replacing one bank with another one, although that complicates your financial life and makes dealing with your estate more difficult.
I agree the near term solution is a) see if other Chase branches/people will do it b) try to open an account at another bank after an affirmative answer that they'd do it (though it might be subject to a waiting period). There's no really good reason, but pique, to close the account at Chase before finding that out. I do agree though with earlier statement that if, eventually, you find yourself turned down for signature/medallion signature gtees at brick and mortar banks, it calls into question having accounts at them for that reason. Although you might also chase bonuses at a B&M bank short term, or stick around for a good credit card or other deal. Our walking distance, long established checking account is at BOA, though another big reason we have any relationship with BOA is credit cards with Preferred Rewards/Platinum, which also avoids min balance in checking at 0%, used as secondary account with tiny balance (main checking account is 1% with another B&M outside walking distance). BOA did sig gtee last time we asked but that was a few years ago, for Treasury Direct it must have been many years ago. But usually we need those to maneuver things around at Vanguard and now it's easier to submit the forms electronically and voice verify them.

Lots of account discussion here seem to include the unspoken assumption of just one account or a very limited number. I don't share the view that having multiple financial accounts is a problem, if each serves a purpose (bonus chase then close, CC deal, physical access, highest CD rate nationally at that moment, various features among brokerage accounts, etc.).

I've had no bank dealings with Chase, have heard in general they can be a little difficult. Wells Fargo though IME is very difficult. Their line people seem to live in terror of their legal/compliance departments in the wake of the scandal there, will look for any excuse to say no (my experience trying to open an account for my LLC there, admittedly to chase a bonus, but their hang up was 'problems' with company docs BOA, IBKR, Vanguard and others waved through with no comment).
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