Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

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sents13
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Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by sents13 »

I'm working at megacorp A right now, been looking to leave for a while. Recently, smallercorp B offered me a position. It meets all my criteria compensation wise, but it's smallercorp not megacorp. I was going to reject smallercorp's offer, but I would be rejecting a really good offer.

So, here's the crazy idea: What happens if I take smallercorp's offer and only resign from megacorp after 6-12mth and I am certain the move is the right one.

Some stats:
- Smallercorp is offering me level+1 position, in a role and work environment that would be good for career growth IF it works out
- But smallercorp has not IPO (looks like they are IPO-ing within 1-2 year from now but who knows). Without the RSU income, smallercorp would pay 66% of my comp. With RSU income smallercorp would pay 150% of my comp.
- Smallercorp is not known for WLB from online reviews
- Smallercorp and Megacorp are on EST and PST time zones.

Let's table how am I going to work 2 jobs aside, with remote work it will be tricky but possible. But here's where I get tripped up:
1) If smallercorp doesn't work out I can resign, and I can leave out smallercorp from my resume. Never ever need to mention it, nobody would know.
2) BUT if smallercorp works out... and I resign from megacorp then in my next job search years from now, the employer or background check agency will see OVERLAPPING dates of employment between megacorp and smallercorp. Will that be a red flag that cause me to fail background check?
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kevinf
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by kevinf »

Just put your start dates on the resume and let the hypothetical future interviewer ask when you quit each position if they have a mind to... They probably won't. Working two jobs isn't really a red flag either... getting FIRED from one while working two jobs might be.
shess
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by shess »

sents13 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:52 am 2) BUT if smallercorp works out... and I resign from megacorp then in my next job search years from now, the employer or background check agency will see OVERLAPPING dates of employment between megacorp and smallercorp. Will that be a red flag that cause me to fail background check?
It is not uncommon for someone to maintain a consulting relationship with a past employer, or to have a consulting relationship turn into employment. Early in my career most of my work was project-based, so my timeframes had substantial overlap. So I'm not sure that the practical HR-level issue is a problem.

I think a bigger danger is people who informally know what you're doing. Referrals and contacts are the real fuel of advancement in tech, and people are conservative about making referrals which might reflect badly on themselves.

Lastly ... I'll be honest, if your current position is such that you could basically disappear for six months and nobody would notice, then you should just quit and find new work rather than game the system. Life is too short to get stuck in a job like that.
mary1492
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by mary1492 »

You should first go back and check your employment agreement and HR policies at megacorp and be very sure that you are not precluded from working a second job at the same time. Similar for the new position at smallercorp. If the job with smallercorp is in the same sector/industry or a potential competitor, there's a high likelihood that you are not allowed to be working for them at the same time. Should you be working at smallercorp, and a co-worker at either company realize that you are working for another you'll likely be terminated...possibly from both. Lastly, if you are in a position at megacorp or smallercorp which may require work after hours or on the weekends and there is a conflict, what will you do? Have you told smallercorp that you'll be continuing to work at megacorp?
2) BUT if smallercorp works out... and I resign from megacorp then in my next job search years from now, the employer or background check agency will see OVERLAPPING dates of employment between megacorp and smallercorp. Will that be a red flag that cause me to fail background check?
List the end/start dates so they don't overlap. If you're willing to not list smallercorp if it doesn't work out, why would you be concerned about adjusting the end/start dates?
elle
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by elle »

:sharebeer

Just read something about this being more popular: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/ ... f8427317f3
MarkerFM
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by MarkerFM »

Unless you do this with the understanding and permission from both employers, this is dishonest at minimum. I once had an outside sales employee (on the payroll with full benefits, etc.) who decided to continue to work as an independent rep selling competing products for commission. Needless to say, I fired her. I consulted our insurance company, who said I should file a police report and make a claim. The insurance company would then pursue her for the pay and benefit expenses. For various reasons I never did, but it was an option.
exodusNH
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by exodusNH »

sents13 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:52 am I'm working at megacorp A right now, been looking to leave for a while. Recently, smallercorp B offered me a position. It meets all my criteria compensation wise, but it's smallercorp not megacorp. I was going to reject smallercorp's offer, but I would be rejecting a really good offer.

So, here's the crazy idea: What happens if I take smallercorp's offer and only resign from megacorp after 6-12mth and I am certain the move is the right one.

Some stats:
- Smallercorp is offering me level+1 position, in a role and work environment that would be good for career growth IF it works out
- But smallercorp has not IPO (looks like they are IPO-ing within 1-2 year from now but who knows). Without the RSU income, smallercorp would pay 66% of my comp. With RSU income smallercorp would pay 150% of my comp.
- Smallercorp is not known for WLB from online reviews
- Smallercorp and Megacorp are on EST and PST time zones.

Let's table how am I going to work 2 jobs aside, with remote work it will be tricky but possible. But here's where I get tripped up:
1) If smallercorp doesn't work out I can resign, and I can leave out smallercorp from my resume. Never ever need to mention it, nobody would know.
2) BUT if smallercorp works out... and I resign from megacorp then in my next job search years from now, the employer or background check agency will see OVERLAPPING dates of employment between megacorp and smallercorp. Will that be a red flag that cause me to fail background check?
As someone who has hired people, I wouldn't care unless it was obvious that the two companies were competitors.

If you can manage to pull off working 100+ hours a week and are not otherwise violating either companies' policies, I don't see what's wrong with it.

I do think you are underestimating the toll that amount of work takes on you. There are only 120 hours in a 5 day week.
softwaregeek
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by softwaregeek »

I did this for six months earlier in my career (both employers were aware of what I was doing).

I worked days as a junior manager for a mega-tech company. I worked nights for another firm.

Daily schedule: Start commute 6am with a drive to the company bus. (Long commute). Sleep on the bus to work. Arrive 7:30am.Work at mega-tech until 5:30. Get on the evening bus. Open laptop, work on second job. Arrive home 7:30. 30 minute dinner, work until midnight. Work weekends one day a week.

I made a ton of money. But it wasn't sustainable for more than six months. One day I looked at the bus and broke down and said "I just can't handle this anymore".

In short, I don't recommend it.
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Watty
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by Watty »

sents13 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:52 am Let's table how am I going to work 2 jobs aside, with remote work it will be tricky but possible. But here's where I get tripped up:
Don't kid yourself.

If they do not both know about it and approve it then it will be a problem. It isn't like you are working at a morning shift at McDonalds and an evening shift at Burger King.

Likely much sooner than later there will be a conflict where you need to be on two conference calls at the same time or promptly answer a call when you are on the phone with the other company.

Even of you are working remotely you may still be expected to travel for important meetings or to meet with a client.
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SmileyFace
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by SmileyFace »

sents13 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:52 am
Let's table how am I going to work 2 jobs aside, with remote work it will be tricky but possible.
Check your employment agreement at both companies to make sure you aren't breaking policy. I knew two people attempted what you are talking about (one a few years ago and another recently) - they were both fired from BOTH jobs once discovered. Last I heard the latter person was still in court proceedings with one of the employers. Both are nearly umemployable - word travels fast.
Last edited by SmileyFace on Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
MAKsdad
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by MAKsdad »

Assuming it's not prohibited explicitly by one or both employers**, I assume OP knows what they can handle in terms of actually getting both jobs done remotely. I would say there's no harm in trying it out, and definitely I wouldn't worry about the implications on future background checks.

** - I think it's HIGHLY unlikely that megacorp's code of ethics wouldn't include a section on conflicts of interest that prohibits this. Part of my job is in a compliance role at a megacorp and we fire 8-10 people a year for moonlighting.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

sents13 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:52 am What happens if I take smallercorp's offer and only resign from megacorp after 6-12mth and I am certain the move is the right one.
Why would it take you 6 - 12 months to decide if smallercorp’s job is right for you? Possibly because WLB matters to you and working jobs on both coasts is going to be exhausting? Possibly because you want to see if smallercorp does an IPO? Possibly because you want to see how long you can pull this off?

Your rationale sounds dumb. I hope you change your mind.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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SmileyFace
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by SmileyFace »

mary1492 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:41 am
List the end/start dates so they don't overlap.
Start/Stop dates are part of the basic info that is verified during a background check. If what you report doesn't exactly match what is verified - the background check fails and you are asked to explain and prove out the descrepency. Don't be dishonest when providing background check info.
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vanbogle59
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by vanbogle59 »

I was part of a team where one of our individual contributors pulled this.
For about 6 months he jerked us all around with his inability to meet bau schedules (meetings, deliverable dates...)
When he left, he bragged to someone on the team about how clever he had been.

A year later, things didn't work out in his new gig. He had the b@lls to ask back onto our team.
Let's just say that wasn't met with enthusiasm.

Secrets are hard to keep. Reputation matters. Even if it doesn't show up on a background check.
DoubleComma
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by DoubleComma »

My megacorp ethics and confidentially terms one must agree to would expressly prohibit this. You might get away with it, but it seems unethical to me. Were you on my team, and I learned of this, you would be terminated with cause and prohibited from any future employment in the direct organization and/or any subsidiaries.
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Beachey
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by Beachey »

SmileyFace wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:21 pm
mary1492 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:41 am
List the end/start dates so they don't overlap.
Start/Stop dates are part of the basic info that is verified during a background check. If what you report doesn't exactly match what is verified - the background check fails and you are asked to explain and prove out the descrepency. Don't be dishonest when providing background check info.
I just started a new job and this is what comes to mind. They only went back seven years so if you were able to stay with the new company that long you might not have an issue. They accepted pay stubs from my present employer in lieu of contacting them but you would still have the issue of an end date on the MegaCorp.
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greg24
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by greg24 »

sents13 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:52 amLet's table how am I going to work 2 jobs aside, with remote work it will be tricky but possible.
So you're going to use remote work in order to work two jobs simultaneously?

This is immoral. If not illegal.
runninginvestor
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by runninginvestor »

My thoughts don't do it. Many of the reasons above. Even if it's not explicitly outlined against by either company. If it's not actively encouraged or accepted, my general advice is don't be a case subject for a new rule.

And if the smaller corporation has a bad reputation for work-life balance, it might not be that easy to do both.

I think you would get a lot further navigating an amicable exit from the megacorp, without burning any bridges. If the smaller company doesn't work out after about a year, you'd be in a much better place, optionality wise, to pursue your former employer or another employer. I'd imagine in the tech space it's not unheard of to want to try a smaller startup, and it not working out.

I'm just a person on the internet, so I have no skin in the game for your decision. But from my work experience, I worked in a field where the industry can lean towards consulting or more traditional roles/companies. The consulting side is a little more demanding. We had people that start with us, eventually want to see what it's like on the other traditional side, and more often than you would think come back within a year or two. We'd typically field the calls to the former employees that didn't burn the bridge if we were able to, we most definitely didn't for those that left on bad terms.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by Doctor Rhythm »

As someone who helps recruit and manage professionals in a large organization, it’s hard to imagine how either LittleCorp or MegaCorp would be okay with this. LittleCorp wouldn’t have hired you if they knew you planned to do this, and I don’t see any reasons why both LittleCorp or MegaCorp wouldn’t fire you immediately if they found out. If they were particularly incensed, they would tell your other employer and get you black listed. No offense, but I wouldn’t think twice about burning someone who betrayed my trust and my organization’s trust.

If I Googled your real name, would I find out where you work? If I searched through your Company’s website, would I find your name?
Last edited by Doctor Rhythm on Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vanbogle59
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by vanbogle59 »

runninginvestor wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:55 pm We'd typically field the calls to the former employees that didn't burn the bridge if we were able to, we most definitely didn't for those that left on bad terms.
+1
Well said.
This is the (self-interested) positive spin on why not to do it.
It may not seem like it now, but your current relationships are valuable. Or at least potentially so.
Don't do anything that might potentially harm them.
Leaving a job (especially for a better opportunity!) on good terms is just business. (Almost) Everyone understands, even applauds it.
Burning a bridge is risking self-harm.
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Honestly no offense intended, but Foolhardy doesn’t even begin to describe this. Unless you get an OK in writing from both places.

It’s in your own best interests to get some corporate ethics training ASAP. Barring that, read the book Why They Do It, about white collar criminals and how they end up in serious trouble by not thinking things through.

Also: will you sign up for benefits at both places? I think getting two sets of medical is insurance fraud.
what do you think your bank will do when two paychecks start entering your account?
what do you think the IRS will do when it sees two sets of tax withholdings?
if you take out a loan and misstate your income (up or down), pretty sure that’s fraud.

Nothing could be worth the consequences of what you are proposing.
theorist
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by theorist »

If they are not competitors, megacorp rules may allow you to consult with smallcorp for e.g. 20% of your time. You can use this 20% plus any overtime you put in to develop a much better picture of smallcorp, and perhaps to make your decision to possibly move to a full time job there easier.

I would not hold two jobs at once without explicit consent. Most large organizations have published rules on outside consulting, which is why I’d be comfortable with that route.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by amock »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:00 pm Also: will you sign up for benefits at both places? I think getting two sets of medical is insurance fraud.
what do you think your bank will do when two paychecks start entering your account?
what do you think the IRS will do when it sees two sets of tax withholdings?
if you take out a loan and misstate your income (up or down), pretty sure that’s fraud.

Nothing could be worth the consequences of what you are proposing.
There's no reason to sign up for medical insurance at both jobs and neither banks nor the IRS care how many jobs you have at once. If he can do both jobs at once there's nothing wrong with having them both. He does need to be prepared for possible negative consequences if either one finds out and is unhappy about it, but if he does the jobs well they have no reason to care.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by milktoast »

OP: I wouldn't overlap jobs due to possible violation of the corporate ethics rules. Which could cost you both jobs.

But on the dates question. I have papered over gaps and short stints by simply switching my resume to years.

ABC 1995 - 1998
CDE 1998 - 2005
FGH 2005 - 2006
IJK 2007 - present

How long was I at FGH ? Almost two years? Two months? How long was I unemployed between FGH and IJK? Christmas Break? 20 months? Unless somebody is super curious they don't know. And to find out they ask me, and I'm prepared with the answer.
SmallSaver
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by SmallSaver »

One rule I try to live by is to avoid doing anything I would need to lie about. Not saying that's the case here, but maybe a useful question to ask yourself.
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

amock wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:08 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:00 pm Also: will you sign up for benefits at both places? I think getting two sets of medical is insurance fraud.
what do you think your bank will do when two paychecks start entering your account?
what do you think the IRS will do when it sees two sets of tax withholdings?
if you take out a loan and misstate your income (up or down), pretty sure that’s fraud.

Nothing could be worth the consequences of what you are proposing.
There's no reason to sign up for medical insurance at both jobs and neither banks nor the IRS care how many jobs you have at once. If he can do both jobs at once there's nothing wrong with having them both. He does need to be prepared for possible negative consequences if either one finds out and is unhappy about it, but if he does the jobs well they have no reason to care.
possible negative consequences you mention. I only urge you both to inform yourselves fully and get as much written approval in advance as you can -before- undertaking such a ruse. bar associations can give you three free consults with employment lawyers. please open your eyes. “ask for forgiveness not permission” is for high school.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by DoTheMath »

Watty wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:10 pm
sents13 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:52 am Let's table how am I going to work 2 jobs aside, with remote work it will be tricky but possible. But here's where I get tripped up:
Don't kid yourself.

If they do not both know about it and approve it then it will be a problem. It isn't like you are working at a morning shift at McDonalds and an evening shift at Burger King.
An ironic choice of example given that many franchisee agreements have or had prohibitions on poaching employees. Not quite the same, of course.
“I am losing precious days. I am degenerating into a machine for making money. I am learning nothing in this trivial world of men. I must break away and get out into the mountains...” -- John Muir
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vanbogle59
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by vanbogle59 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:00 pm Honestly no offense intended, but Foolhardy doesn’t even begin to describe this. Unless you get an OK in writing from both places.

It’s in your own best interests to get some corporate ethics training ASAP. Barring that, read the book Why They Do It, about white collar criminals and how they end up in serious trouble by not thinking things through.

Also: will you sign up for benefits at both places? I think getting two sets of medical is insurance fraud.
what do you think your bank will do when two paychecks start entering your account?
what do you think the IRS will do when it sees two sets of tax withholdings?
if you take out a loan and misstate your income (up or down), pretty sure that’s fraud.

Nothing could be worth the consequences of what you are proposing.
I've had 2 jobs at one time. Even 3 jobs once. I've even had multiple, simultaneous health insurance policies.
But all of my employers always knew what was going on. Never any secrets.
Priorities and boundaries were always clearly defined. Sometimes formal safeguards were imposed.

Simultaneous jobs isn't the issue. Transparency is.
imsomeguy
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by imsomeguy »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:00 pm Honestly no offense intended, but Foolhardy doesn’t even begin to describe this. Unless you get an OK in writing from both places.

It’s in your own best interests to get some corporate ethics training ASAP. Barring that, read the book Why They Do It, about white collar criminals and how they end up in serious trouble by not thinking things through.

Also: will you sign up for benefits at both places? I think getting two sets of medical is insurance fraud.
what do you think your bank will do when two paychecks start entering your account?
what do you think the IRS will do when it sees two sets of tax withholdings?
if you take out a loan and misstate your income (up or down), pretty sure that’s fraud.

Nothing could be worth the consequences of what you are proposing.
I think everyone is overthinking this. so don't get 2 sets of health insurance, but why would banks care if you get 2 sets of paychecks? And same with IRS who cares if you get 2 sets of withholdings.

Definitely not ethical but not sure its illegal
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

imsomeguy wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:23 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:00 pm Honestly no offense intended, but Foolhardy doesn’t even begin to describe this. Unless you get an OK in writing from both places.

It’s in your own best interests to get some corporate ethics training ASAP. Barring that, read the book Why They Do It, about white collar criminals and how they end up in serious trouble by not thinking things through.

Also: will you sign up for benefits at both places? I think getting two sets of medical is insurance fraud.
what do you think your bank will do when two paychecks start entering your account?
what do you think the IRS will do when it sees two sets of tax withholdings?
if you take out a loan and misstate your income (up or down), pretty sure that’s fraud.

Nothing could be worth the consequences of what you are proposing.
I think everyone is overthinking this. so don't get 2 sets of health insurance, but why would banks care if you get 2 sets of paychecks? And same with IRS who cares if you get 2 sets of withholdings.

Definitely not ethical but not sure its illegal
It seemed like he felt he could conceal the situation: my point was there will be a significant paper trail.

But I think eyebrows would start to raise the moment he said he didn’t need insurance at the new job, or canceled it early at the old. And I think any bank’s BSA software would find two sets of payroll deposits unusual. And any form he’d fill out (like for a loan) asking for his employer and income... if he over or understates, it’s a lie, isn’t it? And getting a loan under false pretenses is fraud.

I’m just saying, for his own sake, check first! Don’t be rash. It’s not like a consulting contract or board seat.
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AnnetteLouisan
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

vanbogle59 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:22 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:00 pm Honestly no offense intended, but Foolhardy doesn’t even begin to describe this. Unless you get an OK in writing from both places.

It’s in your own best interests to get some corporate ethics training ASAP. Barring that, read the book Why They Do It, about white collar criminals and how they end up in serious trouble by not thinking things through.

Also: will you sign up for benefits at both places? I think getting two sets of medical is insurance fraud.
what do you think your bank will do when two paychecks start entering your account?
what do you think the IRS will do when it sees two sets of tax withholdings?
if you take out a loan and misstate your income (up or down), pretty sure that’s fraud.

Nothing could be worth the consequences of what you are proposing.
I've had 2 jobs at one time. Even 3 jobs once. I've even had multiple, simultaneous health insurance policies.
But all of my employers always knew what was going on. Never any secrets.
Priorities and boundaries were always clearly defined. Sometimes formal safeguards were imposed.

Simultaneous jobs isn't the issue. Transparency is.
Agreed. That’s why I noted, unless you get the OK in writing first from both employers (unlikely).

also, vesting RSUs at two jobs is potentially securities fraud, isnt it?
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jags4186
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by Jags4186 »

I don’t know how anyone can construe this as being illegal. It maybe unwise, impractical, against employer policy, maybe even against a contract you have, but it isn’t illegal. While certainly many people are very busy in WFH environments, there are also many people who have discovered that they can do their job in less than 40 hrs a week, myself one of them.
Last edited by Jags4186 on Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by stoptothink »

exodusNH wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:26 am
If you can manage to pull off working 100+ hours a week and are not otherwise violating either companies' policies, I don't see what's wrong with it.

I do think you are underestimating the toll that amount of work takes on you. There are only 120 hours in a 5 day week.
OP didn't mention anything about how many hours current job is actually taking them or how many he expects to be actually working in the other. My wife just left a sales position in tech which took her ~15hrs/week of work (shockingly, often much less) to be the top producer in her department. She could have worked a 2nd job with her eyes closed (she spent the previous 4yrs being a full-time student while being the department's top producer), instead she left for a 50% raise + RSUs and upward mobility at an exploding fintech company. My mom, also in tech (project management), has been working full-time for one company for over a decade and worked ~20hrs/week for another as a consultant for the last 3 or so. The consulting job recently made her an offer she couldn't refuse to be full-time and her previous employer begged her to stay on part-time; so she just flipped her previous situation. I wouldn't ever consider doing it because I have a lot of responsibilities at home with my wife moving up the ladder, but there are months at a time where I could handle a 2nd full-time gig no problem and I have a fancy title at a pretty large company.

Not saying this is a good idea (for several reasons), but with more and more remote opportunities there are absolutely professional jobs out there where it is possible without working yourself to death.
investorpeter
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by investorpeter »

Wow, this is completely unethical and fraudulent. You could be opening yourself up to potential civil and maybe criminal liability, especially if you are working on any government-funded projects. If an employer pays you to work full-time for certain hours of the day, and you use those same hours to work for and get paid from a different employer, that would be a pretty clear-cut case of fraud. If both companies are competitors, and with the potential payoff of a lucrative IPO of one of the companies, the stakes are even higher. Should you manage to anger your employers enough for them to want to pursue civil and/or criminal penalties (and I suspect both would be plenty angry if they found out), it wouldn't be that difficult to prove this fraud from bank accounts, log-in times, recorded Zoom calls, etc. Just not worth the potential risk to even consider doing something like this. If you asked, or just notified both employers that you were doing this, then you would be fine. But if you don't ask because you know their answer would be a hard "No", then you definitely should not do it.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

investorpeter wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:56 pm Wow, this is completely unethical and fraudulent. You could be opening yourself up to potential civil and maybe criminal liability, especially if you are working on any government-funded projects. If an employer pays you to work full-time for certain hours of the day, and you use those same hours to work for and get paid from a different employer, that would be a pretty clear-cut case of fraud. If both companies are competitors, and with the potential payoff of a lucrative IPO of one of the companies, the stakes are even higher. Should you manage to anger your employers enough for them to want to pursue civil and/or criminal penalties (and I suspect both would be plenty angry if they found out), it wouldn't be that difficult to prove this fraud from bank accounts, log-in times, recorded Zoom calls, etc. Just not worth the potential risk to even consider doing something like this. If you asked, or just notified both employers that you were doing this, then you would be fine. But if you don't ask because you know their answer would be a hard "No", then you definitely should not do it.
THIS
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

investorpeter wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:56 pm Wow, this is completely unethical and fraudulent.
We work in an industry (mega banks) where “garden leave” is instituted to prevent an employee from working for a competitor for usually some number of months. The garden leave is at full salary. It serves various purposes, some more reasonable than others, but among them is the risk that research/strategy/intellectual property that is time critical shouldn’t be shared with competitors. Obviously working at different companies simultaneously without prior approval might be viewed as a conflict of interest by one or both companies.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by MAKsdad »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:37 pm
imsomeguy wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:23 pm
AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:00 pm Honestly no offense intended, but Foolhardy doesn’t even begin to describe this. Unless you get an OK in writing from both places.

It’s in your own best interests to get some corporate ethics training ASAP. Barring that, read the book Why They Do It, about white collar criminals and how they end up in serious trouble by not thinking things through.

Also: will you sign up for benefits at both places? I think getting two sets of medical is insurance fraud.
what do you think your bank will do when two paychecks start entering your account?
what do you think the IRS will do when it sees two sets of tax withholdings?
if you take out a loan and misstate your income (up or down), pretty sure that’s fraud.

Nothing could be worth the consequences of what you are proposing.
I think everyone is overthinking this. so don't get 2 sets of health insurance, but why would banks care if you get 2 sets of paychecks? And same with IRS who cares if you get 2 sets of withholdings.

Definitely not ethical but not sure its illegal


It seemed like he felt he could conceal the situation: my point was there will be a significant paper trail.

But I think eyebrows would start to raise the moment he said he didn’t need insurance at the new job, or canceled it early at the old. And I think any bank’s BSA software would find two sets of payroll deposits unusual. And any form he’d fill out (like for a loan) asking for his employer and income... if he over or understates, it’s a lie, isn’t it? And getting a loan under false pretenses is fraud.

I’m just saying, for his own sake, check first! Don’t be rash. It’s not like a consulting contract or board seat.
Tons of people don't get insurance because they're covered under their spouse's policy. I don't think anyone would bat an eye about that. Same with multiple paychecks...lots of people have to work two jobs.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by exodusNH »

investorpeter wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:56 pm Wow, this is completely unethical and fraudulent. You could be opening yourself up to potential civil and maybe criminal liability, especially if you are working on any government-funded projects. If an employer pays you to work full-time for certain hours of the day, and you use those same hours to work for and get paid from a different employer, that would be a pretty clear-cut case of fraud. If both companies are competitors, and with the potential payoff of a lucrative IPO of one of the companies, the stakes are even higher. Should you manage to anger your employers enough for them to want to pursue civil and/or criminal penalties (and I suspect both would be plenty angry if they found out), it wouldn't be that difficult to prove this fraud from bank accounts, log-in times, recorded Zoom calls, etc. Just not worth the potential risk to even consider doing something like this. If you asked, or just notified both employers that you were doing this, then you would be fine. But if you don't ask because you know their answer would be a hard "No", then you definitely should not do it.
Not necessarily. If he has flex time from the employers, he certainly could work 6 AM until 10 PM and get 16 hours of work a day in. Given that they're on opposite coasts, he has 3 hours to leverage.

Unless he's agreed otherwise, there's nothing immoral or fraudulent about working two full-time jobs. If his work is satisfactory to both employers, it's not up to us to judge what he does. If his work slips at one or the other, then he will suffer the consequences of their HR remediation policies.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

Investorpeter, I guess we’ve done all we can here. Can’t say we didn’t try.

I hope the guy considering this will ask himself why at least half the comments are urging against it. It’s not to be judgy, it’s trying to help you. And you know this is questionable because you asked about background checks. Anyway, please stop, check, ask and think.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by investorpeter »

exodusNH wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:14 pm
investorpeter wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:56 pm Wow, this is completely unethical and fraudulent. You could be opening yourself up to potential civil and maybe criminal liability, especially if you are working on any government-funded projects. If an employer pays you to work full-time for certain hours of the day, and you use those same hours to work for and get paid from a different employer, that would be a pretty clear-cut case of fraud. If both companies are competitors, and with the potential payoff of a lucrative IPO of one of the companies, the stakes are even higher. Should you manage to anger your employers enough for them to want to pursue civil and/or criminal penalties (and I suspect both would be plenty angry if they found out), it wouldn't be that difficult to prove this fraud from bank accounts, log-in times, recorded Zoom calls, etc. Just not worth the potential risk to even consider doing something like this. If you asked, or just notified both employers that you were doing this, then you would be fine. But if you don't ask because you know their answer would be a hard "No", then you definitely should not do it.
Not necessarily. If he has flex time from the employers, he certainly could work 6 AM until 10 PM and get 16 hours of work a day in. Given that they're on opposite coasts, he has 3 hours to leverage.

Unless he's agreed otherwise, there's nothing immoral or fraudulent about working two full-time jobs. If his work is satisfactory to both employers, it's not up to us to judge what he does. If his work slips at one or the other, then he will suffer the consequences of their HR remediation policies.
But those were not the facts presented. OP did not mention anything about flex-time, or working two jobs sequentially. The question presented by OP was on how to best hide this activity from future employers, which implies he knows that he should not be doing this. It wasn't even a question about whether future employers would look negatively on this. That was a given. The question was whether this would show up on a background check.
If the OP believed that the employers really only cared that the job was done, then why the need to hide it from the employers? Just let them know. If they are satisfied that the job is still getting done, then they should be ok with it. The unethical and fraudulent part is not working two jobs, but withholding that information from the employers with the knowledge that they would likely react negatively to it.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by harrychan »

I'm not gonna lie, I've thought about it the last time I switched jobs and probably could've pulled it off. I worked from home full time for a EMEA company. I automated the job and made it so efficient that aside from some early meetings I had to attend, the rest of the day consisted of being oncall in case something happened to one of my engineers. It meant I had nothing to do from 10am until I logged off. My new job required me to be in person but I could've probably supported my current job by keeping my cell phone close by. If I went forward with my plan, it wasn't to milk both companies but just in case the new job didn't pan out.

If you could perform as expected at both jobs, I don't see it as unethical. Certainly not illegal. You can't go to jail for working two jobs. People do this all the time. What about people who work double for the same pay? Now that should be considered illegal!
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by gogreen »

harrychan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:18 pm
If you could perform as expected at both jobs, I don't see it as unethical. Certainly not illegal. You can't go to jail for working two jobs. People do this all the time. What about people who work double for the same pay? Now that should be considered illegal!
This!
I'm shocked how many members believe it's illegal/fraudulent. If I find a job that pays 2x my current salary, will HR of current company got sued because they underpaid me?
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by vanbogle59 »

gogreen wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 5:47 pm This!
I'm shocked how many members believe it's illegal/fraudulent.
fraudulent = involving deception
It needn't be criminal.

"But here's where I get tripped up....
Never ever need to mention it, nobody would know.....
Will that be a red flag that cause me to fail background check?"

The clear reading is that OP is engaging in fraud or at least believes others will interpret his actions (when discovered) that way.
The concealment of fraud was there from the beginning.
Denying it takes the mental gymnastics of Charles Ponzi's defense attorney.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by sents13 »

greg24 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:40 pm
sents13 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:52 amLet's table how am I going to work 2 jobs aside, with remote work it will be tricky but possible.
So you're going to use remote work in order to work two jobs simultaneously?

This is immoral. If not illegal.
LOL ok... Cite me the laws I'm breaking.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by sents13 »

Doctor Rhythm wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:04 pm As someone who helps recruit and manage professionals in a large organization, it’s hard to imagine how either LittleCorp or MegaCorp would be okay with this. LittleCorp wouldn’t have hired you if they knew you planned to do this, and I don’t see any reasons why both LittleCorp or MegaCorp wouldn’t fire you immediately if they found out. If they were particularly incensed, they would tell your other employer and get you black listed. No offense, but I wouldn’t think twice about burning someone who betrayed my trust and my organization’s trust.

If I Googled your real name, would I find out where you work? If I searched through your Company’s website, would I find your name?
IF they find out, that is the trick.

Also for the Google part, I have minimal social media presence. And for whatever that I have, it would still be old Megacorp. Not everyone update their profile/website in real-time so it's ok to have a stale employer for 6-12mth
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by sents13 »

AnnetteLouisan wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:00 pm Honestly no offense intended, but Foolhardy doesn’t even begin to describe this. Unless you get an OK in writing from both places.

It’s in your own best interests to get some corporate ethics training ASAP. Barring that, read the book Why They Do It, about white collar criminals and how they end up in serious trouble by not thinking things through.

Also: will you sign up for benefits at both places? I think getting two sets of medical is insurance fraud.
what do you think your bank will do when two paychecks start entering your account?
what do you think the IRS will do when it sees two sets of tax withholdings?
if you take out a loan and misstate your income (up or down), pretty sure that’s fraud.

Nothing could be worth the consequences of what you are proposing.
- No it's not, only if you claim from both and double claim to get extra money.
- Nothing? What it's illegal to have 2 direct deposits in my account? Ok, I'll open another bank account.
- Nothing? IRS gets paid its taxes, why would they care?
- Uhm... ok. I've not heard for fraud for claiming less income, but I can not take up any loans in the next 6-12mth.
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sents13
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by sents13 »

investorpeter wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:56 pm Wow, this is completely unethical and fraudulent. You could be opening yourself up to potential civil and maybe criminal liability, especially if you are working on any government-funded projects. If an employer pays you to work full-time for certain hours of the day, and you use those same hours to work for and get paid from a different employer, that would be a pretty clear-cut case of fraud. If both companies are competitors, and with the potential payoff of a lucrative IPO of one of the companies, the stakes are even higher. Should you manage to anger your employers enough for them to want to pursue civil and/or criminal penalties (and I suspect both would be plenty angry if they found out), it wouldn't be that difficult to prove this fraud from bank accounts, log-in times, recorded Zoom calls, etc. Just not worth the potential risk to even consider doing something like this. If you asked, or just notified both employers that you were doing this, then you would be fine. But if you don't ask because you know their answer would be a hard "No", then you definitely should not do it.
Ok... I will bite and say maybe there is some legal risk here, but I'm not that important to get sued. I wish I were. Both companies are also not competitors and operating in separate space/sectors. I'm not leaking trade secrets like the Waymo/Uber person did, which btw is the ONLY case I've heard of a person getting prosecuted, and in that situation he took IP from one company and implemented it in a competitor.

In this situation, I just have 2 different jobs in different timezones, in companies that do not compete with one another. Am I hiding this? YEAH... it's against corporate policy and I may be fired. But is it illegal? NO. Ethics? Who cares as long as I deliver at both jobs? We're paid to deliver not paid to work 40hrs/wk.

Also, nobody has seemed to commented on the background check.. which is the main question. I suppose working 2 remote jobs is totally novel so there is no precedence to speak off. If I decide not do it (and I was leaning no btw), it will be because of background checks and not any of the other reasons you all have raised.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by London »

I’m a natural contrarian so I’ll take the side that this is ok, depending on your role. I have a good friend that has a managerial job at a large company. He probably “works” about ten hours a week, without any expectation to do more. He could easily take another similar job without shortchanging either employer.

The “ethics” high horse on here is always on display. As long as both employers are getting what they are paying for delivery wise, I don’t consider this to be a problem.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by AnnetteLouisan »

sents13 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:03 pm
investorpeter wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:56 pm Wow, this is completely unethical and fraudulent. You could be opening yourself up to potential civil and maybe criminal liability, especially if you are working on any government-funded projects. If an employer pays you to work full-time for certain hours of the day, and you use those same hours to work for and get paid from a different employer, that would be a pretty clear-cut case of fraud. If both companies are competitors, and with the potential payoff of a lucrative IPO of one of the companies, the stakes are even higher. Should you manage to anger your employers enough for them to want to pursue civil and/or criminal penalties (and I suspect both would be plenty angry if they found out), it wouldn't be that difficult to prove this fraud from bank accounts, log-in times, recorded Zoom calls, etc. Just not worth the potential risk to even consider doing something like this. If you asked, or just notified both employers that you were doing this, then you would be fine. But if you don't ask because you know their answer would be a hard "No", then you definitely should not do it.
Ok... I will bite and say maybe there is some legal risk here, but I'm not that important to get sued. I wish I were. Both companies are also not competitors and operating in separate space/sectors. I'm not leaking trade secrets like the Waymo/Uber person did, which btw is the ONLY case I've heard of a person getting prosecuted, and in that situation he took IP from one company and implemented it in a competitor.

In this situation, I just have 2 different jobs in different timezones, in companies that do not compete with one another. Am I hiding this? YEAH... it's against corporate policy and I may be fired. But is it illegal? NO. Ethics? Who cares as long as I deliver at both jobs? We're paid to deliver not paid to work 40hrs/wk.

Also, nobody has seemed to commented on the background check.. which is the main question. I suppose working 2 remote jobs is totally novel so there is no precedence to speak off. If I decide not do it (and I was leaning no btw), it will be because of background checks and not any of the other reasons you all have raised.

“I’m not that important to get sued...”

This is the last I’ll say on it, since you seem dead set on doing it, but TONS of small fry get sued and worse. TONS.
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Re: Thoughts on taking 2 Jobs Simultaneously.. implications for background check in the future?

Post by Marseille07 »

sents13 wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:03 pm Also, nobody has seemed to commented on the background check.. which is the main question. I suppose working 2 remote jobs is totally novel so there is no precedence to speak off. If I decide not do it (and I was leaning no btw), it will be because of background checks and not any of the other reasons you all have raised.
I don't think the background check would pose issues. They're just verifying your start / end dates. Unless you specifically call their attention to spot an overlap, most likely they won't even notice.
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