Too Frugal?
Too Frugal?
I am not handy and have lived a boglehead lifestyle throughout my working career. I max out all retirement accounts and have and have over $1.3 million saved. I want to update my shower- stained cultured marble from the 80s whose glass door frame is short so I have to duck when I get into the shower. Estimates to replace it with a corian low maintenance enclosure and new frameless door range from 8-9k! I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around spending two months of take home pay for this.
I have the money, but I can’t stop thinking about the opportunity cost. How do Bogleheads get over this?
Thanks!
I have the money, but I can’t stop thinking about the opportunity cost. How do Bogleheads get over this?
Thanks!
Re: Too Frugal?
Mr. Market just paid for it today. Thank him, and go get your shower enclosure. Plus, this probably adds to the value of your home, so it’s money that goes from one part of your balance sheet to another.
It’s a one off expense. Don’t sweat these too much.
It’s a one off expense. Don’t sweat these too much.
Re: Too Frugal?
Renovations are super expensive right now. I can see why you're cringing. Hopefully, prices get back to normal when supply chains get back to normal. We're living in a weird time right now. It's hard to tell what prices are sticking and what's transitory.
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Re: Too Frugal?
Not at all. I would gladly duck for 8-9K, personally
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Re: Too Frugal?
1. It would make you happy.
2. You’re a disciplined saver.
3. You’ve been ducking long enough. That expense as stated already will be a one time pain.
4. See no. 1.
2. You’re a disciplined saver.
3. You’ve been ducking long enough. That expense as stated already will be a one time pain.
4. See no. 1.
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Re: Too Frugal?
Think about the risk if you one day accidentally hit your head on the frame and the hospital bill you might incur or even worst if something became permanently damaged because of an accident related to the frame. You should consider this risk mitigation as money well spent.
Re: Too Frugal?
Thank you all for the insights. The thought of spending on an upmarket day helps, even though It doesn’t exactly work that way. I have hit my head multiple times first thing in the morning! Perhaps that’s a sign I should invest in my safety.
Spending takes practice for savers.
Spending takes practice for savers.
Re: Too Frugal?
Another thing to consider is that money spent on an improvement like this may increase your home's value as much. I would do it, you have the money and you will enjoy this improvement every single day.
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Re: Too Frugal?
It is hard; there was a recent thread about the pros and cons (and challenge) of changing a long-time habit of frugality.ert510 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:32 pm I am not handy and have lived a boglehead lifestyle throughout my working career. I max out all retirement accounts and have and have over $1.3 million saved. I want to update my shower- stained cultured marble from the 80s whose glass door frame is short so I have to duck when I get into the shower. Estimates to replace it with a corian low maintenance enclosure and new frameless door range from 8-9k! I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around spending two months of take home pay for this.
I have the money, but I can’t stop thinking about the opportunity cost. How do Bogleheads get over this?
Thanks!
I would echo the thoughts of others: for what have you saved all that money if not to have the financial security to spend a little to make your life more pleasant?
Words of wisdom from a long-ago thread that I saved in a file for reference:
Maybe that's not the ONLY reason. You may wish to leave as large an estate as possible (perhaps that is enabling more consumption in the future by others).I think some Bogleheads get confused in thinking that deferring consumption is useful for its own sake. The only reason to save (defer consumption) is to enable more consumption in the future.
-Dan Kohn, May 7, 2009, Bogleheads.org, "Major purchase that drained you.."
But even if so, while $9k sounds like a lot of money in isolation, viewed in the context of your savings--less than 1%, an expenditure that can be made up by a good day in the market--it seems much less noteworthy. And I would wager that six months after you have the work done, you'll be enjoying the improvement and if you ever even think about the cost, that thought will be followed by a feeling of satisfaction with your decision.
Another perspective: think of this project as a win-win: a repair that will make your own life more pleasant AND provide additional income for someone likely less well off than yourself. In the wise words of the father of a friend: "money is like fertilizer, it's only useful when it's spread around."
We cannot absolutely prove [that they are wrong who say] that we have seen our best days. But so said all who came before us, and with just as much apparent reason. |
-T. B. Macaulay (1800-1859)
Re: Too Frugal?
I give you permission to make this upgrade.
May all your index funds gain +0.5% today.
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Re: Too Frugal?
Absolutely! Get a second quote perhaps. Wait till demand falls after COVID renovation season perhaps. Just make sure you get it done before you are really tired some morning (from travel or a fever or whatever). The clock is ticking.
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Re: Too Frugal?
ert510 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:32 pm I am not handy and have lived a boglehead lifestyle throughout my working career. I max out all retirement accounts and have and have over $1.3 million saved. I want to update my shower- stained cultured marble from the 80s whose glass door frame is short so I have to duck when I get into the shower. Estimates to replace it with a corian low maintenance enclosure and new frameless door range from 8-9k! I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around spending two months of take home pay for this.
I have the money, but I can’t stop thinking about the opportunity cost. How do Bogleheads get over this?
Thanks!
How I deal with it …
1) we live beneath our means overall by only spending about 70-80% of what We can afford to spend
2) then I remember helping my parents pay their assisted living bills 10 years ago. Ar sunrise asst living in Reston Va their monthly bill for two was about 10K a month. So now when I come across a big expenditure I think wow this is only a month of care at prices a decade ago. I am going to get a lot more enjoyment out of this now than they did out of that 10K.
It seems to help but it is still hard to loosen up the purse strings.
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Re: Too Frugal?
On the other hand … We recently did a mini bath renovation on a place in Florida and threw away the glass shower door as it was old and the rollers were clunky. We cleaned up the caulk on the tile so the door was forgotten. We installed a new shower curtain rod like you see in a nice hotel and a fancy shower curtain. It looks great. Maybe that is a boglehead compromise.
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Re: Too Frugal?
Spend the money...as we age we tend to walk hunched over, anything to not encourage this is good if its affordable. Its a one time expense which will last decades.
"History is the memory of time, the life of the dead and the happiness of the living." Captain John Smith 1580-1631
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Re: Too Frugal?
Could you opt for a less expensive route that you would be happy with in the 4k-5k range?
Edit* When I needed a new expensive sliding glass shower door for the bathtub/shower I tore it out and put up a curtain for $40.
Edit* When I needed a new expensive sliding glass shower door for the bathtub/shower I tore it out and put up a curtain for $40.
Last edited by mrjohnanderson007 on Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Too Frugal?
Been lots of these threads recently. I guess the market run up has given people more spending capacity but their “frugalness” gets in the way? You can only spend it or give it away now or later. Fix the damn shower!
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Re: Too Frugal?
You have a life expectancy of X years. $8,000 divided by X years? Less than the cost of your utility bill. Go fix the door. You’re welcome.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
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Re: Too Frugal?
Get the new shower!ert510 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:32 pm I am not handy and have lived a boglehead lifestyle throughout my working career. I max out all retirement accounts and have and have over $1.3 million saved. I want to update my shower- stained cultured marble from the 80s whose glass door frame is short so I have to duck when I get into the shower. Estimates to replace it with a corian low maintenance enclosure and new frameless door range from 8-9k! I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around spending two months of take home pay for this.
I have the money, but I can’t stop thinking about the opportunity cost. How do Bogleheads get over this?
Thanks!
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel |
"Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
Re: Too Frugal?
I'm not sure that the estimate is really that high. A gut bathroom remodel where I live ranges from 30-35K. Someone I know replaced their fiberglass tub with a walk in shower about 10 years ago and it cost $7500.
We have one bathroom and have been debating putting in another one for years. I wish we had done it earlier because now prices are crazy high and I don't think they are going to drop substantially any time soon.
We have one bathroom and have been debating putting in another one for years. I wish we had done it earlier because now prices are crazy high and I don't think they are going to drop substantially any time soon.
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Re: Too Frugal?
This does not sound like spending money for a "luxury".ert510 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:32 pm I am not handy and have lived a boglehead lifestyle throughout my working career. I max out all retirement accounts and have and have over $1.3 million saved. I want to update my shower- stained cultured marble from the 80s whose glass door frame is short so I have to duck when I get into the shower. Estimates to replace it with a corian low maintenance enclosure and new frameless door range from 8-9k! I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around spending two months of take home pay for this.
I have the money, but I can’t stop thinking about the opportunity cost. How do Bogleheads get over this?
Thanks!
The shower does not fit you. Get one that does and makes you comfy and happy.
Imagine scrimping on underwear by wearing what "used to fit" before weight gain.
Wearing underwear that fits and is comfy and perfect is not a luxury.
These might be very poor comparisons: (disl laimer)
j
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Re: Too Frugal?
Just think how happy you will be living with the upgrade rather than the dated look. Sometimes life isn’t about money!
“Those who move forward with a happy spirit will find that things always work out.” -Retired 13 years 😀
Re: Too Frugal?
How many estimates have you received? This seems way too high to meert510 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:32 pm I am not handy and have lived a boglehead lifestyle throughout my working career. I max out all retirement accounts and have and have over $1.3 million saved. I want to update my shower- stained cultured marble from the 80s whose glass door frame is short so I have to duck when I get into the shower. Estimates to replace it with a corian low maintenance enclosure and new frameless door range from 8-9k! I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around spending two months of take home pay for this.
I have the money, but I can’t stop thinking about the opportunity cost. How do Bogleheads get over this?
Thanks!
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Re: Too Frugal?
The cost is completely location dependent. In some parts of the country you're not going to get a quote for any multi-day home improvement project for less than that. There's just too much demand for big projects right now for anyone reputable to bother with nickel and dime projects
Just do it. Rather have a nice shower every day than be irritated by it but die $8k richer some day.
Just do it. Rather have a nice shower every day than be irritated by it but die $8k richer some day.
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Re: Too Frugal?
Posts like these make me think about how to make the upgrade myself on a budget of a few hundred dollars. I have never built a sliding door but it sounds like a fun project.
45% Total Stock Market | 52% Consumer Staples | 3% Short Term Reserves
Re: Too Frugal?
When I've had discussions with my contractor on a couple of projects, one thing he has mentioned is that the demo can be a significant variable so comparing projects in two houses that appear to be similar scope, may not be.dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 8:07 am The cost is completely location dependent. In some parts of the country you're not going to get a quote for any multi-day home improvement project for less than that. There's just too much demand for big projects right now for anyone reputable to bother with nickel and dime projects
Just do it. Rather have a nice shower every day than be irritated by it but die $8k richer some day.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
Re: Too Frugal?
Your shower sounds like ours. There wasn't any changing the bathroom layout so it was demo and replace. Well worth the update! Even in these covid work from home times, that shower will still be getting regular use!
Do it and enjoy.
Do it and enjoy.
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Re: Too Frugal?
Time to upgrade your bathroom. Just do it. You’ll be glad you did.
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Re: Too Frugal?
Surely it's not just 2 options: 1) do nothing, or 2) 8-9k reno. Keep looking, and you may find a better way to upgrade your shower at the price you're comfortable with.ert510 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:32 pm I am not handy and have lived a boglehead lifestyle throughout my working career. I max out all retirement accounts and have and have over $1.3 million saved. I want to update my shower- stained cultured marble from the 80s whose glass door frame is short so I have to duck when I get into the shower. Estimates to replace it with a corian low maintenance enclosure and new frameless door range from 8-9k! I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around spending two months of take home pay for this.
I have the money, but I can’t stop thinking about the opportunity cost. How do Bogleheads get over this?
Thanks!
Time is the ultimate currency.
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Re: Too Frugal?
"Estimates" are between $8-9k.
Real life costs are probably much higher, depending upon the contractor. A contractor would say "could be a bit higher." Just be realistic. Be prepared.
Real life costs are probably much higher, depending upon the contractor. A contractor would say "could be a bit higher." Just be realistic. Be prepared.
Re: Too Frugal?
OP, I'd recommend reading/listening to:
Die with Zero: Getting All You Can from Your Money and Your Life
Saw that previously come up on here. Seems applicable to you and might give some needed perspective.
Die with Zero: Getting All You Can from Your Money and Your Life
Saw that previously come up on here. Seems applicable to you and might give some needed perspective.
Re: Too Frugal?
You can stare at your account balance
everyday
Or Stop ducking and improve your quality of life
The choice is yours
I have never seen a hearse with a u-haul behind it.(full of dollar bills)
No guarantees in life
Enjoy
everyday
Or Stop ducking and improve your quality of life
The choice is yours
I have never seen a hearse with a u-haul behind it.(full of dollar bills)
No guarantees in life
Enjoy
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee
Re: Too Frugal?
I finally got my old tub-shower insert replaced with a walk-in shower. I didn't have to duck to get into the shower, but I did have to shimmy in sideways because the slope of the tub gave me limited room to step into the shower. (After 20+ years of shimmying, it took several weeks with the new set up before I realized I didn't have to enter sideways anymore.)ert510 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:01 am Thank you all for the insights. The thought of spending on an upmarket day helps, even though It doesn’t exactly work that way. I have hit my head multiple times first thing in the morning! Perhaps that’s a sign I should invest in my safety.
Spending takes practice for savers.
Corian, especially branded and not generic, is going to be expensive. You might want to look at different options to lower the cost. I was also looking for low maintenance. I opted for tile surround and selected the largest size that would look good. I also paid a little extra for urethane grout, which resists mold and mildew. And I opted for an acrylic pan. With a single shelf insert and an attractive grab bar, the whole project, including demo, was under $4k. About the same cost as if I had opted for a less desirable (for me) molded acrylic insert.
Re: Too Frugal?
Market is up so do it.
You'll have a bigger problem doing it in down years.
You'll have a bigger problem doing it in down years.
Get rich or die tryin'
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Re: Too Frugal?
You're a millionaire with at least $1.3 million, and you'll still be a millionaire if you drop $8,000-10,00 or whatever the cost. It'll make your house look nicer, perhaps make the resale value higher, and it'll decrease your chances of winding up in hospital and/or in pain. It's great you've been frugal, but I don't think you mention what age bracket you are, but if you've got a decent percentage of asset allocation in stocks, you most likely to make back what you spend over time anyway. Treat yourself and enjoy still being a millionaire.
Re: Too Frugal?
Amazing (and wonderful) that OP could draw so many insightful replies to such a post. This one sums up the consensus wellCrossOverGuy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:21 pm You're a millionaire with at least $1.3 million, and you'll still be a millionaire if you drop $8,000-10,00 or whatever the cost. It'll make your house look nicer, perhaps make the resale value higher, and it'll decrease your chances of winding up in hospital and/or in pain. It's great you've been frugal, but I don't think you mention what age bracket you are, but if you've got a decent percentage of asset allocation in stocks, you most likely to make back what you spend over time anyway. Treat yourself and enjoy still being a millionaire.
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Re: Too Frugal?
I think issue is NOT if OP is millionaire or multi-millionaire but rather is the price of the renovation fair or not. If he has multiple quotation in that range, then by definition that is the going price for that work. But it should be possible to guesstimate the material cost and approximate labor hours and if even using big lawyer's or heart surgeon's hourly rate numbers do not add up, then anybody would have an issue.smectym wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:41 amAmazing (and wonderful) that OP could draw so many insightful replies to such a post. This one sums up the consensus wellCrossOverGuy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 11:21 pm You're a millionaire with at least $1.3 million, and you'll still be a millionaire if you drop $8,000-10,00 or whatever the cost. It'll make your house look nicer, perhaps make the resale value higher, and it'll decrease your chances of winding up in hospital and/or in pain. It's great you've been frugal, but I don't think you mention what age bracket you are, but if you've got a decent percentage of asset allocation in stocks, you most likely to make back what you spend over time anyway. Treat yourself and enjoy still being a millionaire.
For example, count how many fasteners are necessary to install this door. Put $100 per fastener (that is way generous than necessary) Look up the cost of the door delivered to your house from a box store.
But in the end, one has to be willing to pay the premium for the expertise.
Re: Too Frugal?
Very funny Jim!Sandtrap wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:21 amThis does not sound like spending money for a "luxury".ert510 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:32 pm I am not handy and have lived a boglehead lifestyle throughout my working career. I max out all retirement accounts and have and have over $1.3 million saved. I want to update my shower- stained cultured marble from the 80s whose glass door frame is short so I have to duck when I get into the shower. Estimates to replace it with a corian low maintenance enclosure and new frameless door range from 8-9k! I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around spending two months of take home pay for this.
I have the money, but I can’t stop thinking about the opportunity cost. How do Bogleheads get over this?
Thanks!
The shower does not fit you. Get one that does and makes you comfy and happy.
Imagine scrimping on underwear by wearing what "used to fit" before weight gain.
Wearing underwear that fits and is comfy and perfect is not a luxury.
These might be very poor comparisons: (disl laimer)
j
Dave
"Reality always wins, your only job is to get in touch with it." Wilfred Bion
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Re: Too Frugal?
I'm also on Team Shower Curtain. I soap up pretty vigorously, reaching here and there and turning to and away from the shower head*, and am always smacking my elbows on the shower walls (pretty generous sized shower) so when we re-did ours in our current house I installed a nice curtain rod instead of doors. Now my wife can change curtains and hardware as she likes. Since I'm highly domesticated, and do most of the laundry, I wash the curtains as they need it. Instead of dealing with scale and stains on a glass and metal door, we just toss the liner and put up a new one!Parkinglotracer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:39 am
On the other hand … We recently did a mini bath renovation on a place in Florida and threw away the glass shower door as it was old and the rollers were clunky. We cleaned up the caulk on the tile so the door was forgotten. We installed a new shower curtain rod like you see in a nice hotel and a fancy shower curtain. It looks great. Maybe that is a boglehead compromise.
In my previous home, with a smaller shower enclosure, the previous owners has gussied it up with a fancy glass shower door that I was forever bumping into. I took personal satisfaction in putting that in the Dumpster when we did our demolition there...
If my wife won Powerball, and let me spend some, the next house would have like a 20x20 shower area
Cheers
* apologies if that's TMI.
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Re: Too Frugal?
+1000Harry Livermore wrote: ↑Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:26 amI'm also on Team Shower Curtain. I soap up pretty vigorously, reaching here and there and turning to and away from the shower head*, and am always smacking my elbows on the shower walls (pretty generous sized shower) so when we re-did ours in our current house I installed a nice curtain rod instead of doors. Now my wife can change curtains and hardware as she likes. Since I'm highly domesticated, and do most of the laundry, I wash the curtains as they need it. Instead of dealing with scale and stains on a glass and metal door, we just toss the liner and put up a new one!Parkinglotracer wrote: ↑Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:39 am
On the other hand … We recently did a mini bath renovation on a place in Florida and threw away the glass shower door as it was old and the rollers were clunky. We cleaned up the caulk on the tile so the door was forgotten. We installed a new shower curtain rod like you see in a nice hotel and a fancy shower curtain. It looks great. Maybe that is a boglehead compromise.
In my previous home, with a smaller shower enclosure, the previous owners has gussied it up with a fancy glass shower door that I was forever bumping into. I took personal satisfaction in putting that in the Dumpster when we did our demolition there...
If my wife won Powerball, and let me spend some, the next house would have like a 20x20 shower area
Cheers
* apologies if that's TMI.
Great points
My previous home shower also had a glass shower door and was so small that I knew when I gained weight.
When “my” bathroom shower leaked, the contractor made the stall larger, step in very low, and did it spiffy Italian tile with a coil removable drain screen to catch all the hair I’m losing.
I put in a shower curtain rod at “my height” and DW gets to change the shower curtains to spiff up the place as needed to my tastes as well.
j
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Re: Too Frugal?
A couple years ago my first iPhone was dying. The battery would last about 30min., it was very sluggish, would crash frequently, and was extremely frustrating to use. I decided to wait until Black Friday to get a deal on a new phone, which saved me $250. Well once I got the new phone I immediately regretted my decision to wait. I would have gladly paid $250 more in September to avoid the daily frustration.
I've rarely regretted spending on items that improve my day-to-day life. Go for it.
I've rarely regretted spending on items that improve my day-to-day life. Go for it.