Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

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namajones
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Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by namajones »

Has anyone done a cost analysis of their annual cost of car ownership vs. what it would cost annually to use a ride service such as uber or lyft?

Just occurred to me that it might actually be less expensive for me, where I live and with the number of times I drive, to ditch the car and use lyft or uber.

Anyone else thought of this or tried it?
Doctor Rhythm
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by Doctor Rhythm »

Sure - I’ve done the thought experiment. It’s not logical for me as a suburbanite homeowner with a family to go car-free. I’m also able and willing to make a financially inferior decision to have the convenience of a car. However, many of my single colleagues who rent in VHCOL City don’t own a car. Have to factor in parking, fuel, insurance, maintenance, depreciation, and ? Other costs I forgot about.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by vasaver »

I think it can really make sense for families instead of buying that 3rd,4th,5th car... someone just takes an Uber/Lyft.
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namajones
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by namajones »

vasaver wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:11 pm I think it can really make sense for families instead of buying that 3rd,4th,5th car... someone just takes an Uber/Lyft.
Holy cow. I didn't even think about that. Yes, absolutely. Even in an every day usage scenario, my back-of-the-napkin cost estimate for lyft/uber was just over 4 grand. I bet many people pay significantly more than that annually for each automobile owned. Even with my 16-year-old Camry, I'm at around 2 grand cost-of-ownership annually, and I'm assuming I'm way under the norm.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by Gryphon »

I can't imagine needing to call for a ride every time I needed to go to the grocery store, or waiting for a driver to show up to take me home while frozen foods melt in the heat of August. I don't care if ownership is more expensive, the convenience & utility are worth the extra cost.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by ResearchMed »

Gryphon wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:18 pm I can't imagine needing to call for a ride every time I needed to go to the grocery store, or waiting for a driver to show up to take me home while frozen foods melt. I don't care if ownership is more expensive, the convenience & utility are worth the extra cost.
This ^^

It's the convenience, mostly.

And forget surge pricing... what about surge availability!?? That's potentially a huge problem.

Also, whereas neither of us would hesitate to run out to pick up <x> at the corner pharmacy or grocers, we wouldn't ever call an Uber for something like that.

RM
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by TomatoTomahto »

ResearchMed wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:23 pm Also, whereas neither of us would hesitate to run out to pick up <x> at the corner pharmacy or grocers, we wouldn't ever call an Uber for something like that.
If you know what you want, order it. In NYC, Amazon often delivers in a couple of hours.
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NYerinLondon
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by NYerinLondon »

This was part of my mental calculation when I got rid of my car to go down to a one car household several years ago. I assumed something like $2k per year in Uber. Then the pandemic hit and I’ve maybe spent $300 a year.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by DiMAn0684 »

Last I heard getting an Uber during morning / after work hours in Boston is still somewhat challenging (and expensive).
Gryphon
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by Gryphon »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:28 pm If you know what you want, order it. In NYC, Amazon often delivers in a couple of hours.
Most people don't get that. There's an Amazon fulfillment center less than 10 miles from my house, it still takes a minimum of 2 days to get anything from them.
Walkure
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by Walkure »

Car free suburbanite reporting for duty. 8-) there was another thread about this from a macro perspective that ended up locked a while back:
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewt ... 1&t=351391
You may find the conversation informative, however to avoid that fate I recommend keeping this actionable by focusing on the financials of OP’s personal situation.
For me cost of ownership with a paid off used car was about $3k. Probably now spend half that annually on car rental / zip cars / Uber+Lyft. Does not include commuting, for which I use (subsidized) public transit.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by hicabob »

I need to take my older vehicle in for a recall (airbag light came on) and found using the dealer's rental service to be about the same price but more convenient than uber.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by stoptothink »

We've shared a single car for 6.5yrs and had no issues, but wife started a new job this week that complicates things. She's gone from hybrid to full-time in office, and a lot more hours. We did briefly chat about buying a used beater, just in case, until we realized it would be a fraction of the cost to just get an Uber the very rare times when I (and the kids) needed to get somewhere we couldn't walk or ride our bikes to.

We did order a 2nd car, but don't expect it until early next year. It wasn't out of necessity, we may sell our current car when the new one comes.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by ResearchMed »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:28 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:23 pm Also, whereas neither of us would hesitate to run out to pick up <x> at the corner pharmacy or grocers, we wouldn't ever call an Uber for something like that.
If you know what you want, order it. In NYC, Amazon often delivers in a couple of hours.
Good point. Things have certainly changed fast.
But maybe I want to select my own light bulb or gallon of milk :wink:

However, I have indeed padded a delivery from Instacart with a few extra things that we didn't need yet, so I could get that fresh gallon of milk...
They seem to have just added a delivery option. Instead of needing to wait 4 or even 7 hours for the delivery (oh, the horror!), for something like $2 extra, it can arrive within an hour or such.
I'm beginning to think that some of this is going to start changing expectations about the pace of life more generally.

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chris319
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by chris319 »

I recently donated my car to a non-profit, but I'm an exceptional case.

I'm retired and no longer need to commute to a job every day. I live steps away from a supermarket and am steps away from abundant public transportation and within walking distance of a large pharmacy, several nice restaurants and other services. I was paying $320 per month for auto insurance and felt it was no longer a wise use of funds. I take a regular taxicab if I need to, and there is the option of renting a car.

No regrets so far.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

Buy a bike and put a rack on it with a good basket. That’ll do what a car can do more than half of the time. Ask me how I know.
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senex
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by senex »

OP, I've done some partial calculations, and found it to be *highly* idiosyncratic to one's situation.

For instance, I've known people in car-centric locales like suburban Detroit and Southern California who lived years without a car, because their particular neighborhood had shopping & medical within a few blocks.

Conversely, I've known people in Manhattan who rarely walked because the sidewalks were acoustic nightmares that reeked of urine, steaming garbage, and diesel fumes.

If you travel with gear, pets, children (carseats), etc, it can significantly tip the balance in both cost and (even more so) convenience.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by Jaymover »

Hey, is there car share in your area.

In Australia we have GOGET. Hire cars dotted around the city. When you need one you just jump in and pay by the hour.

I dont own a car and just use this service when I need. I think my transport costs are quite a bit lower and I do more things by foot without an idle car sitting there. I also live in a place with no parking that means my rent is cheaper.

If you dont have it yet in the US then maybe a good startup. It works really well and noone could have imagined that when it was founded.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by PhoebeCoco »

It really depends on where you live and the availability of uber/lyft/ride sharing and groceries. I don't have a car but I do fine with uber/lyft, bicycling, walking, public transportation, and Whole Foods grocery delivery when I need a big order that I can't carry. Obviously, I live in a major urban area.
lws
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by lws »

Thought about it but decided to stick with one car for convenience.
Here in SoCal it comes in handy.
I like when I visit DC and NYC and don't have to drive.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by BernardShakey »

namajones wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:58 pm Has anyone done a cost analysis of their annual cost of car ownership vs. what it would cost annually to use a ride service such as uber or lyft?

Just occurred to me that it might actually be less expensive for me, where I live and with the number of times I drive, to ditch the car and use lyft or uber.

Anyone else thought of this or tried it?
For me, I have 4 paid for cars and the average annual expenses are about $2,700 per vehicle. Somewhat less during the pandemic. Convenience is the key here.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by dknightd »

I’m going to visit my family soon. They want me to take Uber from the airport. I’m not used to it. But I guess that is what I’ll do.
Retired 2019. So far, so good. I want to wake up every morning. But I want to die in my sleep. Just another conundrum. I think the solution might be afternoon naps ;)
02nz
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by 02nz »

ResearchMed wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:23 pm
Gryphon wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:18 pm I can't imagine needing to call for a ride every time I needed to go to the grocery store, or waiting for a driver to show up to take me home while frozen foods melt. I don't care if ownership is more expensive, the convenience & utility are worth the extra cost.
This ^^

It's the convenience, mostly.

And forget surge pricing... what about surge availability!?? That's potentially a huge problem.

Also, whereas neither of us would hesitate to run out to pick up <x> at the corner pharmacy or grocers, we wouldn't ever call an Uber for something like that.

RM
But Uber/Lyft can also be a lot more convenient. Not having to look for parking, for example. Not to mention time saved with fueling, maintenance, dealing with the DMV, etc. It really depends on the situation - generally the denser the area in which you live, the less convenient car ownership becomes.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by ResearchMed »

02nz wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:50 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:23 pm
Gryphon wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:18 pm I can't imagine needing to call for a ride every time I needed to go to the grocery store, or waiting for a driver to show up to take me home while frozen foods melt. I don't care if ownership is more expensive, the convenience & utility are worth the extra cost.
This ^^

It's the convenience, mostly.

And forget surge pricing... what about surge availability!?? That's potentially a huge problem.

Also, whereas neither of us would hesitate to run out to pick up <x> at the corner pharmacy or grocers, we wouldn't ever call an Uber for something like that.

RM
But Uber/Lyft can also be a lot more convenient. Not having to look for parking, for example. Not to mention time saved with fueling, maintenance, dealing with the DMV, etc. It really depends on the situation - generally the denser the area in which you live, the less convenient car ownership becomes.
None of that really matters if there is bad weather or some sort of surge and one really needs to go someplace... and... no Uber, no taxi...
That's the bottom line for us. Also, increasingly, places have valet service, or there's a place right nearby that has valet service if parking gets difficult. But right, there's no guarantee.

RM
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adamthesmythe
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by adamthesmythe »

The word is that lyft and uber are slow due to the pandemic. It's not clear that they will be able to rebuild their driver numbers even after the pandemic eases.

Apart from that- it's not clear that Lyft and Uber have sustainable business models.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by gubernaculum »

I live in a high density urban area. We have two cars, but mine, a large audi a8, doesnt get used except for long trips, which we do every few months. Otherwise, I walk, bike, and use public transport. My work is within walking distance. I dont need a car and hate driving it short distances especially in the city where parking is painful. I have to say though, having a luxury car for long distance driving is a beautiful thing.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by Golfaddict »

We’re a family of 5 with 2 cars and 2 drivers. We’ve thought long and hard about selling one of our vehicles and using Uber in a pinch. We could sell our used Camry for more than we paid for it 3 years ago. It still has a loan balance so I estimate our monthly expense for it is $500 all included. We have driven it less than 5,000 miles in the last 18 months.
Post-pandemic we will be working 2 days at most in the office and we’re able to alternate days for the most part. The only thing that has been holding us up are the after-school activities for our kids. I wouldn’t mind getting creative and taking an Uber to work when needed or even being dropped off/picked up at work to free up the vehicle, but my wife isn’t convinced we can make it work.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by Grogs »

Back home in suburbia, having a car is essential. Right now, I'm temporarily living in an urban area with decent public transportation. I ride the metro to work every day and I've found that I hardly use the car at all. I'll take it to a store maybe a couple of times a month when I getting more stuff than I can carry, but that's about it. If my company wasn't paying for the parking at my apartment building, I would strongly consider taking my car back home and leaving it in the garage there.

The only thing that would give me pause though is what happens in the event of a natural disaster / terrorist event / etc? I would imagine that in such an event there would be no ubers or rentals available and I would be stranded. I remember all the people who ended up in the Super dome during Katrina because they didn't have a way to leave the city. I hope to never be in a similar position.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by runswithscissors »

I know several people in my area (urban area in VHCOL part of US) that don't own cars. They get almost all their groceries delivered now for a small fee. I actually know a lot of people that own cars that are doing delivery now as it's far more convenient; the delivery fee is the fraction of the cost of an uber to and from the grocery store. Since most people buy virtually everything online nowadays, this also eliminates the need for a car. The use of ebikes has gained popularity in my area so what was once a sweaty ride is now sweat free. I don't live in a walkable area so I couldn't get rid of my car but if I did I would seriously consider it.

I'll throw in my personal metric on ownership cost... I own hybrid vehicles that costs about $4,000 annually to operate in my area (not including depreciation and opportunity cost since I paid cash). Since I usually have about $40K perpetually tied up in a vehicle and add another $20K or so every 5 years I consider the opportunity cost of car ownership at about $8,000/year ($40K initial purchase @ 7% opportunity cost + $20K every 5 years @ 7% opportunity cost). I like to own relatively newer luxury cars that are more current with safety and comfort tech. I buy late model used Lexus (1.5~3 years old) for about 25% off new price and I usually recoup about 50% of my purchase price every 5 years (cars are about 7 years old average when I sell). That's $4,000/year in depreciation on buying "newish" used cars and keeping them until they are about 7 years old. So for me personally, I consider the total opportunity cost, depreciation and maintenance at $12,000/year. If I decided to ride share and have everything I buy delivered it would probably come in about 1/3 of that but as noted not an option for where I currently live.
02nz
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by 02nz »

ResearchMed wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:59 pm
02nz wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:50 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:23 pm
Gryphon wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:18 pm I can't imagine needing to call for a ride every time I needed to go to the grocery store, or waiting for a driver to show up to take me home while frozen foods melt. I don't care if ownership is more expensive, the convenience & utility are worth the extra cost.
This ^^

It's the convenience, mostly.

And forget surge pricing... what about surge availability!?? That's potentially a huge problem.

Also, whereas neither of us would hesitate to run out to pick up <x> at the corner pharmacy or grocers, we wouldn't ever call an Uber for something like that.

RM
But Uber/Lyft can also be a lot more convenient. Not having to look for parking, for example. Not to mention time saved with fueling, maintenance, dealing with the DMV, etc. It really depends on the situation - generally the denser the area in which you live, the less convenient car ownership becomes.
None of that really matters if there is bad weather or some sort of surge and one really needs to go someplace... and... no Uber, no taxi...
That's the bottom line for us. Also, increasingly, places have valet service, or there's a place right nearby that has valet service if parking gets difficult. But right, there's no guarantee.

RM
Why does "none of that matter"? Everything's a trade-off. Having to wait for an Uber while it's raining is an inconvenience, but so is having to spend hours getting your car maintained and repaired, and there's a financial cost, too. As for valet service ... sure if you have money to throw around, but then why not just hire a limo and driver while you're at it? It's even more convenient.
Last edited by 02nz on Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by 02nz »

Grogs wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:06 pm The only thing that would give me pause though is what happens in the event of a natural disaster / terrorist event / etc? I would imagine that in such an event there would be no ubers or rentals available and I would be stranded. I remember all the people who ended up in the Super dome during Katrina because they didn't have a way to leave the city. I hope to never be in a similar position.
Natural disaster doesn't mean you're better off with a car. There was a huge snowstorm in Washington DC in 2011. There were a lot of people in cars trying to get home who got stranded, many abandoned their cars on the freeway. I got home just fine by Metro.

As for terrorist attack, can you please explain how, after a terrorist attack has already happened, having a car makes you safer (as opposed to just giving you the feeling that you can get away)? Can you point to any terrorist attack in history where having a car to get away would have made a difference after the fact?
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by ResearchMed »

02nz wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:16 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:59 pm
02nz wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:50 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:23 pm
Gryphon wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:18 pm I can't imagine needing to call for a ride every time I needed to go to the grocery store, or waiting for a driver to show up to take me home while frozen foods melt. I don't care if ownership is more expensive, the convenience & utility are worth the extra cost.
This ^^

It's the convenience, mostly.

And forget surge pricing... what about surge availability!?? That's potentially a huge problem.

Also, whereas neither of us would hesitate to run out to pick up <x> at the corner pharmacy or grocers, we wouldn't ever call an Uber for something like that.

RM
But Uber/Lyft can also be a lot more convenient. Not having to look for parking, for example. Not to mention time saved with fueling, maintenance, dealing with the DMV, etc. It really depends on the situation - generally the denser the area in which you live, the less convenient car ownership becomes.
None of that really matters if there is bad weather or some sort of surge and one really needs to go someplace... and... no Uber, no taxi...
That's the bottom line for us. Also, increasingly, places have valet service, or there's a place right nearby that has valet service if parking gets difficult. But right, there's no guarantee.

RM
Why does "none of that matter"? Everything's a trade-off. Having to wait for an Uber while it's raining is an inconvenience, but so is having to spend hours getting your car maintained and repaired, and there's a financial cost, too. As for valet service ... sure if you have money to throw around, but then why not just hire a limo and driver while you're at it? It's even more convenient.
If there's NO ride available when it's needed, then it doesn't matter if it "would have" saved money for parking or maintenance or cost of auto insurance or anything else. What matters, to us, is whether there would be a ride we can rely upon when needed.

It's not the inconvenience or discomfort of waiting in the rain for a ride, although that's certainly something to keep in mind as "a possible additional factor". It's the fact that there are very likely to be too many others also trying to get rides precisely at times like that... so we can't count on getting a ride then.

I'm not sure how much limos and drivers cost where you live, but that's very expensive in our HCOL area. VERY expensive. Often $100 minimum, and the cost climbs fast from there. (But that's just for a regular sedan, not a real "limousine".)
Paying for an occasional valet? A few bucks perhaps for a tip in addition to the parking fee...

RM
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by TropikThunder »

namajones wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:14 pm
vasaver wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:11 pm I think it can really make sense for families instead of buying that 3rd,4th,5th car... someone just takes an Uber/Lyft.
Holy cow. I didn't even think about that. Yes, absolutely. Even in an every day usage scenario, my back-of-the-napkin cost estimate for lyft/uber was just over 4 grand. I bet many people pay significantly more than that annually for each automobile owned. Even with my 16-year-old Camry, I'm at around 2 grand cost-of-ownership annually, and I'm assuming I'm way under the norm.
How can you possibly estimate a yearly cost for Uber or Lyft? They don’t charge the same price each time.
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namajones
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by namajones »

Walkure wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:39 pm For me cost of ownership with a paid off used car was about $3k. Probably now spend half that annually on car rental / zip cars / Uber+Lyft. Does not include commuting, for which I use (subsidized) public transit.
Are you calculating purchase price in that annual cost of car ownership? I assume you are. Your calculation is a third higher than my own. Average annual cost of car ownership should probably be another thread, but it's keenly pertinent to this discussion, as well. My own annual cost of a car is down to $2K, if not a bit less now. That includes purchase price, insurance, and estimates on gas and service over the 16 years that I've had the car (Camry). I haven't heard anyone say that their annual cost of ownership is less, but I haven't been listening very hard, either.

In any case, I'd imagine that one's expenditures on uber/lyft,etc. would have to compare very favorably to, if not beat significantly, one's cost of car ownership for the idea to seem compelling.

I do calculate mentally what I think a person's annual cost of car ownership would be if I run across the significant numbers--such as purchase price, likely length of ownership in years, likely maintenance costs and mileage--and I more typically come up with figures that start at $5K annually. That would probably buy a heckuva lot of rides on uber or lyft, depending, of course, on length of rides.

Just now I estimated that if I took 10 rides a week (and I don't drive that often in my normal car, so that's generous) at $40 per ride (city-like area, generally don't go far for most trips), I'd be at about $1,750 per month. That seems to beat by just a little my already low annual cost of car ownership. I guess the question becomes, " how much is it worth to me to have the flexibility provided by having my own car?" It's probably worth the small difference between $2,000 and $1,750 to me.

But if my annual cost of car ownership were in the $5K+ range, I'm not sure I could justify not banking that amount of savings. Over 20 years the savings would be in the range of $65,000 in today's dollars, which, if invested, might actually be worth significantly more than that in 20 years. That's not the relative chump change of, say, switching from buying coffee at Starbucks to making it at home. So that's probably when the idea would start to seem compelling to me--and that might be, of course, as soon as my current car gives up the ghost. I suppose that's why I started this thread...thinking ahead.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by YeahBuddy »

I composed spreadsheets in the past but the current difficulty to obtain uber/lyft or ride sharing has highlighted the benefits of car ownership for us. Suburbs of big city, there's been a few days where we could not get a ride at all. Other times, wait times are 20+ minutes. Checking right now there's no rides available from home to my son's school. None.
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Admiral
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by Admiral »

Too many factors to consider. To wit:

Annual miles driven (or needed to be driven)
Cost of car
Cost of insurance
Cost of maintenance
Number of years car will be owned after it's paid for
Cost of gas/charging
Cost of parking
Size of family
Convenience factor

Not sure how you could every accurately make a comparison. The biggest factors to me are purchase price, miles driven, insurance, years owned, and convenience (which is priceless at various points in time).

I recently looked at a 2 mi Uber ride that used to cost $12. It's now $32. Car rentals are averaging over $100/day. Sure, if you barely drive or don't mind public transport, then a car is not worth it.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by MikeWillRetire »

It wouldn't work for me, but my two twenty-something sons live without a car. They both live in walkable areas with public transportation. and use Uber when needed.
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winterfan
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by winterfan »

Gryphon wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:18 pm I can't imagine needing to call for a ride every time I needed to go to the grocery store, or waiting for a driver to show up to take me home while frozen foods melt in the heat of August. I don't care if ownership is more expensive, the convenience & utility are worth the extra cost.
+1. I like driving too. It's worth the cost to me.
stoptothink
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by stoptothink »

runswithscissors wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:09 pm I know several people in my area (urban area in VHCOL part of US) that don't own cars.
My sister is 37, she grew up in LA, then lived in Providence RI, London, NYC, Salt Lake City, and now Seattle, she has never owned a car and gets around fine. I don't know how prevalent it is, but I've done it (lived in LA and Houston without a car) and likely wouldn't own a car now if I didn't have kids.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by runswithscissors »

People note the convenience factor of car ownership, which can be compelling depending on ones' situation. But another non-financial consideration should be lower mortality rates for those that forgo car ownership. Statistically speaking, ride share drivers are half as likely to die in an an accident (per mile driven). And in those accidents only 20% involve the death of the passenger. Therefore it's about 10 times less likely to perish in an accident per mile if one uses ride share services than driving themselves. That's significant.

Further, not owning a car would more than likely result in less miles commuting/travelling overall; this would of course further reduce ones chance of dying in an accident. It should be noted that 11% of all car accidents result in the death of people outside vehicles (cyclists and pedestrians) but this leaves 89% of those in the vehicles themselves holding the bag.

And when compared to using public transportation, driving is 13 times more lethal (i.e. there are 13X more deaths for the same miles commuted via driving vs public transportation). This is also very compelling.

Not owning a car obviously means you'll never be able to crash from distracted driving or driving while impaired from drugs or alcohol. Bogleheads are likely to be more responsible drivers than average but many of us have at some point or another driven after consuming alcohol or prescription medication which can cause drowsiness.

Personally, I can't wait til self driving and/or remote controlled taxis proliferate. Not having to engage with a driver and having the entire vehicle to myself would make ride sharing much more compelling and attractive for me. I could see commercial fleets of these operating within the next 5 years in many urban centers. I don't think fully self driving taxis will be here within 5 years but hybrid self driving and remote controlled (when needed) vehicles are already operating on roads today. These will be a game changer IMO and make many more people ditch their cars.
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ClevrChico
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by ClevrChico »

I'm fairly confident we could get rid of one of our two cars and use ridesharing to make up for it. I'd love to have the extra space in the garage.

Both cars are old, paid for, cheap, and reliable, so we probably won't make a change until one car gives out.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by H-Town »

runswithscissors wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 9:21 am People note the convenience factor of car ownership, which can be compelling depending on ones' situation. But another non-financial consideration should be lower mortality rates for those that forgo car ownership. Statistically speaking, ride share drivers are half as likely to die in an an accident (per mile driven). And in those accidents only 20% involve the death of the passenger. Therefore it's about 10 times less likely to perish in an accident per mile if one uses ride share services than driving themselves. That's significant.

Further, not owning a car would more than likely result in less miles commuting/travelling overall; this would of course further reduce ones chance of dying in an accident. It should be noted that 11% of all car accidents result in the death of people outside vehicles (cyclists and pedestrians) but this leaves 89% of those in the vehicles themselves holding the bag.

And when compared to using public transportation, driving is 13 times more lethal (i.e. there are 13X more deaths for the same miles commuted via driving vs public transportation). This is also very compelling.

Not owning a car obviously means you'll never be able to crash from distracted driving or driving while impaired from drugs or alcohol. Bogleheads are likely to be more responsible drivers than average but many of us have at some point or another driven after consuming alcohol or prescription medication which can cause drowsiness.

Personally, I can't wait til self driving and/or remote controlled taxis proliferate. Not having to engage with a driver and having the entire vehicle to myself would make ride sharing much more compelling and attractive for me. I could see commercial fleets of these operating within the next 5 years in many urban centers. I don't think fully self driving taxis will be here within 5 years but hybrid self driving and remote controlled (when needed) vehicles are already operating on roads today. These will be a game changer IMO and make many more people ditch their cars.
Can you look up the statistics and youtube video of crashes caused by self-driving cars?

There is only one thing I don't trust: a computer that drives your car.
Time is the ultimate currency.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by IMO »

For the right situation I can see this being more cost efficient for someone. Probably for many situations, it might more of the argument of whether one needs to have that 2nd car in the family that is only used on occasion. As someone pointed out though, Lyft/Uber don't have any set fares, and at times one's particular route can involve a very high premium charge. As an example, I've used ride services to/from residential areas to airports, and the costs have sometimes varied greatly.

Personally at this time in my life, I could never get by solely relying on a ride service if I want to keep my quality of life. I can't see how rideshare services would really work when you need to take yourself/or the family to go do recreational activities/trips, etc. It seems to work better for a work commute situation.

I would think it would be a great Youtube though if people tried to do the uber/lyft thing for a solid month doing their normal activities from different living scenarios and could show exactly what the OP is questioning.

I do also think the question has some merit when it comes to helping manage an elderly parent(s) that may no longer be able to drive or rarely drives much anymore because of health reasons. How much would it cost to instead utilize uber/lyft for rides to appointments, additionally factoring in and types of delivery services (for example grocery deliveries).
Afty
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by Afty »

Using a total cost of ownership calculator from Edmunds or KBB would be a reasonable way to estimate the potential cost savings. These calculators account for deprecation, insurance, fuel, maintenance, taxes and registration fees, etc. For example, for my zip code Edmunds estimates the 5-year total cost of ownership for a new Honda CR-V at $42k, so about $8k annualized for a pretty mainstream car.

Once you have that, you can trade off the convenience vs. the cost. I think people generally underestimate the cost of car ownership.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by ray.james »

We moved from 2 card to 1 recently with the view that if we need one, we will use the rideshare services. There is some planning involved butso far we have used uber once. We could have kept the second car, except when the prices went up, I thought this was the time to get rid of 12 year old car.

Also for city folks, some of my friends went the route of electric bike/scooter for commute to train/bus station and removed second car even before the pandemic. With pandemic & WFH, I do not forsee any of them buying a second car. In our current phase of life, who ever picks the kids get the dibs on the car.
When in doubt, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79939
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by tj »

I think in the last thread someone had posted a calculator, when I ran the numbers ride sharing never came close compared to having my own car.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by vasaver »

namajones wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:12 am
Walkure wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:39 pm For me cost of ownership with a paid off used car was about $3k. Probably now spend half that annually on car rental / zip cars / Uber+Lyft. Does not include commuting, for which I use (subsidized) public transit.
Are you calculating purchase price in that annual cost of car ownership? I assume you are. Your calculation is a third higher than my own. Average annual cost of car ownership should probably be another thread, but it's keenly pertinent to this discussion, as well. My own annual cost of a car is down to $2K, if not a bit less now. That includes purchase price, insurance, and estimates on gas and service over the 16 years that I've had the car (Camry). I haven't heard anyone say that their annual cost of ownership is less, but I haven't been listening very hard, either.

In any case, I'd imagine that one's expenditures on uber/lyft,etc. would have to compare very favorably to, if not beat significantly, one's cost of car ownership for the idea to seem compelling.

I do calculate mentally what I think a person's annual cost of car ownership would be if I run across the significant numbers--such as purchase price, likely length of ownership in years, likely maintenance costs and mileage--and I more typically come up with figures that start at $5K annually. That would probably buy a heckuva lot of rides on uber or lyft, depending, of course, on length of rides.

Just now I estimated that if I took 10 rides a week (and I don't drive that often in my normal car, so that's generous) at $40 per ride (city-like area, generally don't go far for most trips), I'd be at about $1,750 per month. That seems to beat by just a little my already low annual cost of car ownership. I guess the question becomes, " how much is it worth to me to have the flexibility provided by having my own car?" It's probably worth the small difference between $2,000 and $1,750 to me.

But if my annual cost of car ownership were in the $5K+ range, I'm not sure I could justify not banking that amount of savings. Over 20 years the savings would be in the range of $65,000 in today's dollars, which, if invested, might actually be worth significantly more than that in 20 years. That's not the relative chump change of, say, switching from buying coffee at Starbucks to making it at home. So that's probably when the idea would start to seem compelling to me--and that might be, of course, as soon as my current car gives up the ghost. I suppose that's why I started this thread...thinking ahead.
Some people clean their house and mow their own lawn. Others pay to have it done. A Tesla Model Y lease is $650+ per month. Add Taxes, Insurance, inner city parking and you are talking 10-12k+ per year.

While a 16 year old Camry is a fine car...it isn't everyone's cup of tea.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by vasaver »

^^^^ Throw in a few dings, frequent details, fsd, ticket, tow and that Model Y could easily approach 15k per year.
tj
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by tj »

namajones wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:12 am
Walkure wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 5:39 pm For me cost of ownership with a paid off used car was about $3k. Probably now spend half that annually on car rental / zip cars / Uber+Lyft. Does not include commuting, for which I use (subsidized) public transit.
Are you calculating purchase price in that annual cost of car ownership? I assume you are. Your calculation is a third higher than my own. Average annual cost of car ownership should probably be another thread, but it's keenly pertinent to this discussion, as well. My own annual cost of a car is down to $2K, if not a bit less now. That includes purchase price, insurance, and estimates on gas and service over the 16 years that I've had the car (Camry). I haven't heard anyone say that their annual cost of ownership is less, but I haven't been listening very hard, either.

In any case, I'd imagine that one's expenditures on uber/lyft,etc. would have to compare very favorably to, if not beat significantly, one's cost of car ownership for the idea to seem compelling.

I do calculate mentally what I think a person's annual cost of car ownership would be if I run across the significant numbers--such as purchase price, likely length of ownership in years, likely maintenance costs and mileage--and I more typically come up with figures that start at $5K annually. That would probably buy a heckuva lot of rides on uber or lyft, depending, of course, on length of rides.

Just now I estimated that if I took 10 rides a week (and I don't drive that often in my normal car, so that's generous) at $40 per ride (city-like area, generally don't go far for most trips), I'd be at about $1,750 per month. That seems to beat by just a little my already low annual cost of car ownership. I guess the question becomes, " how much is it worth to me to have the flexibility provided by having my own car?" It's probably worth the small difference between $2,000 and $1,750 to me.

But if my annual cost of car ownership were in the $5K+ range, I'm not sure I could justify not banking that amount of savings. Over 20 years the savings would be in the range of $65,000 in today's dollars, which, if invested, might actually be worth significantly more than that in 20 years. That's not the relative chump change of, say, switching from buying coffee at Starbucks to making it at home. So that's probably when the idea would start to seem compelling to me--and that might be, of course, as soon as my current car gives up the ghost. I suppose that's why I started this thread...thinking ahead.
Unless you can sell your car for what you had purchased it for, I'm not sure the purchase price is relevant. It's a sunk cost.

10 rides a week seems like not much if you don't have a vehicle. Even if I never went out to a restaurant, what about going to the gym?

And what about road trip when going somewhere that flying is not pratical?


I would need to see some serious savings to forego a vehicle, and I just haven't seen it. Uber/Lyft seem a lot less reliable this year, too.
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Re: Cost of car ownership vs. uber / lyft / ride sharing

Post by mnnice »

I wish it had been an option 25 years ago when I lived in a super walkable neighborhood with good transit options to work. The biggest pain was also invites to other people’s houses. Being able to Uber to or from things like that would have been so useful and I wouldn’t have had to be such a mooch.

Now I Iive in a place with a decent walk score and we have two vehicles and three drivers and a good chunk of the time both vehicles are still in the garage. Uber doesn’t work for pulling our 5th wheel though.
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