Personal Finance While in a Coma

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
Post Reply
Topic Author
Sockpuppet
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:06 pm

Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Sockpuppet »

So this is a very weird post to write.

My sister had valve replacement surgery a little over a week ago, there were a number of complications, and she's been heavily sedated since then (basically in a medically induced coma but technically she's not). My sister is in her 30s and had been in pretty good health. She had had a heart murmur since she was a child so her heart was always something we kept an eye on and finally last spring her cardiologist had said the time had come to do something. So given that this was a scheduled procedure, this turn of events has been quite a shock (even though I was aware of the risks).

My question...is what should I be doing for her finances? She is not married and I'm next of kin.

I've fortunately been able to get into all her accounts with the exception of her retirement accounts. I also successfully guessed the passcode to her phone. I've informed her employer and confirmed she was approved for the Family Medial Leave Act. I'm waiting on info from her employer on how to pay her premiums. She had most of her bills on autopay and I've gone through and made sure her accounts are okay with funds (they should be okay for a few months). Credit cards and loans are taken care of.

Is there anything else, I'm forgetting?

My sister worked part-time so she's not eligible for short-term disability in our state. And because the doctor hasn't said her recovery time might be more than 12 months, we can't apply for long-term social security disability. And because she's getting insurance through FMLA she doesn't qualify for unemployment. However, she has no income coming now. It seems like there should be something I should apply for but I can't think of it.

I've also debated whether it's worth getting guardianship. The doctors hope to wake her up this week, but I'm not sure how with it she'll be (we've at least confirmed she's not brain dead). And obviously things could get worse to the point this is moot. My current view is as long as I'm not dealing with any entity that is refusing to let me represent her that it's not necessary.

Finally, one question in the back of my mind...is how to deal with doctor after this? The heart surgeon has great credentials, a lot of experience, and is board certified. But a valve replacement surgery that ends with two other seemingly healthy valves now damaged during a scheduled operation seems less than great. I'm not litigious and I know heart surgery carries a big risk in itself. But, it feels wrong to just accept "these things happen." Is there some option short of litigation where I can at least make sure we confirm everything was above board. It's really weird because I'm not sure if I should be thanking this doctor or cursing his name. I just have no clue.

Anyway, I know many will want to wish my sister well. I appreciate all prayers. That said, please stay on topic regarding the personal finance angle here.
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 16766
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by ResearchMed »

Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:45 am So this is a very weird post to write.

My sister had valve replacement surgery a little over a week ago, there were a number of complications, and she's been heavily sedated since then (basically in a medically induced coma but technically she's not). My sister is in her 30s and had been in pretty good health. She had had a heart murmur since she was a child so her heart was always something we kept an eye on and finally last spring her cardiologist had said the time had come to do something. So given that this was a scheduled procedure, this turn of events has been quite a shock (even though I was aware of the risks).

My question...is what should I be doing for her finances? She is not married and I'm next of kin.

I've fortunately been able to get into all her accounts with the exception of her retirement accounts. I also successfully guessed the passcode to her phone. I've informed her employer and confirmed she was approved for the Family Medial Leave Act. I'm waiting on info from her employer on how to pay her premiums. She had most of her bills on autopay and I've gone through and made sure her accounts are okay with funds (they should be okay for a few months). Credit cards and loans are taken care of.

Is there anything else, I'm forgetting?

My sister worked part-time so she's not eligible for short-term disability in our state. And because the doctor hasn't said her recovery time might be more than 12 months, we can't apply for long-term social security disability. And because she's getting insurance through FMLA she doesn't qualify for unemployment. However, she has no income coming now. It seems like there should be something I should apply for but I can't think of it.

I've also debated whether it's worth getting guardianship. The doctors hope to wake her up this week, but I'm not sure how with it she'll be (we've at least confirmed she's not brain dead). And obviously things could get worse to the point this is moot. My current view is as long as I'm not dealing with any entity that is refusing to let me represent her that it's not necessary.

Finally, one question in the back of my mind...is how to deal with doctor after this? The heart surgeon has great credentials, a lot of experience, and is board certified. But a valve replacement surgery that ends with two other seemingly healthy valves now damaged seems during a scheduled operation less than great. I'm not litigious and I know heart surgery carries a big risk in itself. But, it feels wrong to just accept "these things happen." Is there some option short of litigation where I can at least make sure we confirm everything was above board. It's really weird because I'm not sure if I should be thanking this doctor or cursing his name. I just have no clue.

Anyway, I know many will want to wish my sister well. I appreciate all prayers. That said, please stay on topic regarding the personal finance angle here.
SO sorry that you are going through this!

I might contact an attorney, someone who would handle guardianships IF it came to that. Or perhaps you could wait a week or two, if there doesn't seem to be anything urgent (?) in her affairs.
There may be other "things" that you haven't thought of, in terms of her finances (or other issues?).
I have not dealt with this, so it's just something that might occur to me if I were in that situation... to ask about "what else".

As for the surgeon, I'd probably get another opinion of her status NOW and in the immediate future. "What happened" can be dealt with a bit later.

My thoughts are with you, and with your sister.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
Topic Author
Sockpuppet
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:06 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Sockpuppet »

ResearchMed wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:53 am
As for the surgeon, I'd probably get another opinion of her status NOW and in the immediate future. "What happened" can be dealt with a bit later.

My thoughts are with you, and with your sister.

RM
An interdisciplinary committee has been setup and all the cardiologists on staff at the hospital have been lopped in the case. Is there a place to get a formal second opinion? Wouldn't I need a doctor at the hospital?
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 16766
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by ResearchMed »

Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:59 am
ResearchMed wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:53 am
As for the surgeon, I'd probably get another opinion of her status NOW and in the immediate future. "What happened" can be dealt with a bit later.

My thoughts are with you, and with your sister.

RM
An interdisciplinary committee has been setup and all the cardiologists on staff at the hospital have been lopped in the case. Is there a place to get a formal second opinion? Wouldn't I need a doctor at the hospital?
The hospital probably has some sort of ethics committee. I'm not sure if this is something they are ordinarily involved with, but I'd contact the chair to see if there are any suggestions or if they can assist. And ask them about how to manage some *outside* second opinion.

Good luck to both of you!

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
oldfatguy
Posts: 1434
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by oldfatguy »

Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:45 am
I've fortunately been able to get into all her accounts with the exception of her retirement accounts. I also successfully guessed the passcode to her phone. I've informed her employer and confirmed she was approved for the Family Medial Leave Act. I'm waiting on info from her employer on how to pay her premiums. She had most of her bills on autopay and I've gone through and made sure her accounts are okay with funds (they should be okay for a few months). Credit cards and loans are taken care of.

Is there anything else, I'm forgetting?
Are you her POA? If not, contact a lawyer. You shouldn't be accessing her accounts without proper authorization.
KlangFool
Posts: 31426
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by KlangFool »

Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:45 am
She had most of her bills on autopay
Sockpuppet,

What kind of autopay?

Is it a a push aka the payment initiated by the bank or a pull from payee?

If it is a pull, you still need to monitor. If one of the pull make a mistake and pull too much, the other bills may not be paid.

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
User avatar
bertilak
Posts: 10711
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:23 pm
Location: East of the Pecos, West of the Mississippi

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by bertilak »

oldfatguy wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:07 pm Are you her POA? If not, contact a lawyer. You shouldn't be accessing her accounts without proper authorization.
Exactly. It is ILLEGAL to "hack" into her accounts. No one should be giving advice on how best to do it.

See if the hospital can help. They have seen this situation more than once. Your sister may have (probably?) filled out some paperwork upon admittance to cover emergency situations.

There is nothing wrong with contacting banks, utilities, or others to explain things and get a little leeway on financial matters.
Last edited by bertilak on Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
User avatar
lthenderson
Posts: 8499
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 11:43 am
Location: Iowa

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by lthenderson »

In my opinion, all this seems way premature since it has only been a week and it seems there are expectations of the induced coma being lifted within another week. I wouldn't access my siblings accounts or phones unless I had express permission to do so. I would wait to see what happens in a week and then worry about everything else. Hopefully there is a successful and happy outcome making all this moot.
runninginvestor
Posts: 1795
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:00 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by runninginvestor »

Good for you to be there for your siblings. Hopefully everything works out okay.

If you know any other lawyers, see if they can give you any good recommendations. Otherwise don't feel weird contacting a lawyer, as long as they are reputable. They may have additional knowledge of steps you can take to better manage the affairs* and guide you through preserving and obtaining any medical records to determine if there was any wrongdoing. Ie they may advise you on not signing away any rights that the hospital may present you.

The reason you shouldn't feel weird, is this is mostly for your sibling to look out for their best interests going forward - typically financially - but also potentially medically if future complications arise after release.

* I say this because recovery can be very difficult from a medical standpoint, and even moreso trying to juggle that with life that doesn't stop. Actually writing up and getting financial power of attorney would be the first step, probably.
Topic Author
Sockpuppet
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:06 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Sockpuppet »

bertilak wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:18 pm
oldfatguy wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:07 pm Are you her POA? If not, contact a lawyer. You shouldn't be accessing her accounts without proper authorization.
Exactly. It is ILLEGAL to "hack" into her accounts. No one should be giving advice on how best to do it.
She left me written documentation telling how to access her accounts and what to do. The instructions are just less than comprehensive. In addition, she designated me as the person to give convent to medical procedures if she couldn’t.

She forgot to give me her phones’ passcode and that I did guess. If I broke the law, any advice on where I should turn myself in would be appreciated.
User avatar
bertilak
Posts: 10711
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:23 pm
Location: East of the Pecos, West of the Mississippi

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by bertilak »

Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:52 pm
bertilak wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:18 pm
oldfatguy wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:07 pm Are you her POA? If not, contact a lawyer. You shouldn't be accessing her accounts without proper authorization.
Exactly. It is ILLEGAL to "hack" into her accounts. No one should be giving advice on how best to do it.

See if the hospital can help. They have seen this situation more than once. Your sister may have (probably?) filled out some paperwork upon admittance to cover emergency situations.

There is nothing wrong with contacting banks, utilities, or others to explain things and get a little leeway on financial matters.
She left me written documentation telling how to access her accounts and what to do. The instructions are just less than comprehensive. In addition, she designated me as the person to give convent to medical procedures if she couldn’t.

She forgot to give me her phones’ passcode and that I did guess. If I broke the law, any advice on where I should turn myself in would be appreciated.
Well, it is a federal offense so perhaps the FBI?

WAIT! there is a loophole. There must be "intent to cause harm or commit a fraud crime." See 18 U.S.C. § 1030.

So (phew!) you are in the clear.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
User avatar
cchrissyy
Posts: 2339
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 10:35 pm
Location: SF bay area

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by cchrissyy »

sorry about this whole situation!

assuming that you have the legal authority, i still can't think of any more you should be doing. if it was april, i would say to file an extension for her income taxes. if she might qualify for social security disability i would say to file for that.

i suppose the only thing you don't mention is do you have somebody bringing in her mail? and caring for her house / plants / pets etc the way she would have needed if this longer stay had been planned in advance.
60-20-20 us-intl-bond
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 16766
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by ResearchMed »

bertilak wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:03 pm
Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:52 pm
bertilak wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:18 pm
oldfatguy wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 12:07 pm Are you her POA? If not, contact a lawyer. You shouldn't be accessing her accounts without proper authorization.
Exactly. It is ILLEGAL to "hack" into her accounts. No one should be giving advice on how best to do it.

See if the hospital can help. They have seen this situation more than once. Your sister may have (probably?) filled out some paperwork upon admittance to cover emergency situations.

There is nothing wrong with contacting banks, utilities, or others to explain things and get a little leeway on financial matters.
She left me written documentation telling how to access her accounts and what to do. The instructions are just less than comprehensive. In addition, she designated me as the person to give convent to medical procedures if she couldn’t.

She forgot to give me her phones’ passcode and that I did guess. If I broke the law, any advice on where I should turn myself in would be appreciated.
Well, it is a federal offense so perhaps the FBI?

WAIT! there is a loophole. There must be "intent to cause harm or commit a fraud crime." See 18 U.S.C. § 1030.

So (phew!) you are in the clear.
"Turn yourself in" ... to your sister :wink: later, when you ask her about whether she would like to give you DURABLE POA for the future. That would cover more than just her current finances, so she needs to understand that and trust you, which she appears to do! She is fortunate to have you nearby.

The documentation you have will probably suffice for now, and that's only if anyone asks OR if you need to ask for help from any of the financial firms, etc.
(A DPOA would be notarized, and what you have probably (?) isn't. It's just the "permission" that needs notarizing. Details of regular instructions, etc., probably wouldn't, but always check about your specific jurisdiction, etc.)

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
Topic Author
Sockpuppet
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:06 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Sockpuppet »

cchrissyy wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:05 pm sorry about this whole situation!

assuming that you have the legal authority, i still can't think of any more you should be doing. if it was april, i would say to file an extension for her income taxes. if she might qualify for social security disability i would say to file for that.

i suppose the only thing you don't mention is do you have somebody bringing in her mail? and caring for her house / plants / pets etc the way she would have needed if this longer stay had been planned in advance.
The IRS sent a letter last week saying she owed a small balance so I just wrote a personal check myself (my account) and mailed it back in.

Yeah, house, plants, dog, and mail is taken care of.
anna.day
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by anna.day »

I am really sorry you are going through this.

I went through something similar with a parent who became suddenly incapacitated due to a medical event, although I was the designed power of attorney.

Honestly, you can probably wait a week.

However, if it would make you feel better to start planning, here's what I would keep an eye on:

- paper mail, for any unpaid bills. (you can have mail held at her post office to make things easier for you).
- personal email, ditto
- ask someone/yourself to keep an eye on her house/apartment, to make sure everything is going smoothly there. once a week is a good schedule.

If it looks like this will last longer, start seeking to be appointed as her guardian. You will need a lawyer. That's a more intensive process, and hopefully it never comes to that, but it can't hurt to start asking around about who would be good.

PS Feel free to ignore the person who said anything about hacking.
anna.day
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:22 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by anna.day »

Oh, one more thing. This is likely to be a marathon not a sprint. So it would be good to pace yourself, if you can. If you are the kind of person who needs that advice, as I am.
afan
Posts: 8169
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:01 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by afan »

Never had any experience with them but lawyer friends have said that guardianships are complicated and should be avoided unless needed. At one week, I would not do anything. See what happens. If it looks like this will go on for a long time, then start looking in that direction. Right now, too soon to tell.

For all you know she may be wide awake 7 days from now, home not much longer thereafter, and again able to manage her affairs.

The hospital should have some sort of patient relations office (could be a different name) that can answer your questions. Let the committee do their review and see what they tell you. If there was a substantial medical error that lead to this, there will be time to figure it out. Bringing that up now might have the effect of them responding by giving you the minimum legally required communication.
We don't know how to beat the market on a risk-adjusted basis, and we don't know anyone that does know either | --Swedroe | We assume that markets are efficient, that prices are right | --Fama
User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 19582
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi - white sandy beaches, N. Arizona 1 mile high.

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Sandtrap »

Do you have a financial power of attorney?

Do you have a medical power of attorney?

Seek legal counsel ASAP. It is better to be proactive right now than not be prepared if things and time escalates.
Don't do things on your own until you talk to legal counsel. Do things properly.

j :D
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know
HomeStretch
Posts: 11335
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:06 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by HomeStretch »

I am very sorry about what your sister and your family are unexpectedly going through. She is very lucky that you jumped in to handle her financial and healthcare matters especially her healthcare premium payment. Continuing coverage is important.

Did you confirm with her employer how long she had asked for leave under FLMA? Also find out how long she is legally able to extend/stay on FLMA and whether additional notice of an extension must be given to her employer on her behalf. If you expect she may be unable to return to work when FLMA expires, you will want a plan in place before that happens to continue her coverage through COBRA, if eligible, or through the ACA or state healthcare exchange/Medicaid, depending on her income. Given her lower income, the latter options are likely less expensive than COBRA.

Good advice, above, about second opinions, talking with an attorney and, in the future, discussing with your sister her need to formalize estate/incapacitation documents a DPOA and healthcare representative/advance directives.
Last edited by HomeStretch on Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Flobes
Posts: 1771
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:40 pm
Location: Home

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Flobes »

Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:45 am It seems like there should be something I should apply for but I can't think of it.
Hospital will likely have a Social Worker on staff. They will know what local, state and federal resources might be available for your sister and for you. This would include financial, care and legal options.
Topic Author
Sockpuppet
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:06 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Sockpuppet »

Regarding second opinions, I feel under the circumstances there’s nothing that would come from it right now. She can’t be moved and I’m told all the cardiologists at this hospital have reviewed her case. I worry trying to bring an outside doctor would just slow her treatment down and if they have a different opinion there’s nothing that can really be done since she can’t be moved.

Am I wrong to be concerned about a second opinion just slowing stuff down?
Fallible
Posts: 8795
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:44 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Fallible »

I’m very sorry about your sister and admire your many efforts to help.

I agree with others here that you should seek legal help, and suggest a firm that includes an estate attorney and a personal injury attorney with experience in cases such as yours and your sister’s.
"Yes, investing is simple. But it is not easy, for it requires discipline, patience, steadfastness, and that most uncommon of all gifts, common sense." ~Jack Bogle
KESP
Posts: 401
Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 8:24 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by KESP »

Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:49 pm Regarding second opinions, I feel under the circumstances there’s nothing that would come from it right now. She can’t be moved and I’m told all the cardiologists at this hospital have reviewed her case. I worry trying to bring an outside doctor would just slow her treatment down and if they have a different opinion there’s nothing that can really be done since she can’t be moved.

Am I wrong to be concerned about a second opinion just slowing stuff down?
I would be shocked if you could get some doctor from another hospital to come in and give a second opinion. I think you have enough to worry about right now without putting that on your plate too.
Flyer24
Posts: 5233
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:21 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Flyer24 »

Let’s try to stay focused on financial aspects and not get into medical. All the best to the OP in this situation.
skp
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 8:12 am

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by skp »

afan wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:30 pm Never had any experience with them but lawyer friends have said that guardianships are complicated and should be avoided unless needed. At one week, I would not do anything. See what happens. If it looks like this will go on for a long time, then start looking in that direction. Right now, too soon to tell.

For all you know she may be wide awake 7 days from now, home not much longer thereafter, and again able to manage her affairs.

The hospital should have some sort of patient relations office (could be a different name) that can answer your questions. Let the committee do their review and see what they tell you. If there was a substantial medical error that lead to this, there will be time to figure it out. Bringing that up now might have the effect of them responding by giving you the minimum legally required communication.
+1
GJ48
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 9:44 am

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by GJ48 »

Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:45 am ....personal finance...
Assuming your sister pulls through ok...planning for rehabilitation is a big task. The social worker on your sister's case should provide you with all the info you will need to begin evaluating options for rehabilitation locations, services, costs, financing options and perhaps longer-term skilled nursing home care. After those stages, setting up, maintaining and financing a home care situation will also be a big challenge. Identifying an agency that is large enough to advise you on options and services would be a good start.

Wishing you and your sister all the best possible! She's very fortunate to have you.
User avatar
cchrissyy
Posts: 2339
Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 10:35 pm
Location: SF bay area

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by cchrissyy »

GJ48 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:17 pm Assuming your sister pulls through ok...planning for rehabilitation is a big task. The social worker on your sister's case should provide you with all the info you will need to begin evaluating options for rehabilitation locations, services, costs, financing options and perhaps longer-term skilled nursing home care.

adding to this from my experience, the hospital social worker made things much easier in the following areas
- getting a disability placard from the DMV
- letters to excuse or modify school or work
- ordering assistive equipment, such as a wheelchair, and addressing follow up issues like did it show up on time or was another size needed
- information on available programs for financial assistance and help to apply for disability benefits. like, they had the paper applications and promised to help fill them out.
- information on national support groups and information for caregivers - in this case maybe that's the American Heart Assoc?


edit to add on the DMV thing - there is a temporary disability tag so if there is a period in her recovery she is weak and can't walk far, the idea is you/she can use disabled parking even if in the long run she won't need that.
Last edited by cchrissyy on Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
60-20-20 us-intl-bond
User avatar
cowdogman
Posts: 2054
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:44 pm
Location: Washington State

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by cowdogman »

I would see how this week plays out. If there is not improvement then I would contact an estate/trust lawyer at a mid-sized firm. Mid-sized firm because you need someone who is more than a will-drafter and because you may need litigation support. He/she will be able to advise you. I suggest you ignore any specific legal advice you get from anyone else--these issues are complicated and the rules and practices vary widely by state.

The state bar association where you live will be able to point you in the right direction on selecting a lawyer. Also ask friends and family.

Good luck.
gokartmozart
Posts: 54
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:32 pm
Location: Pacific NW, USA

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by gokartmozart »

Your sister is lucky to have a sibling like you.

All I have to add to the above is for you to keep excellent records of money into and out of her accounts. Keep a detailed log (paper or spreadsheet) with date, amount, account ID, payee, check number, purpose, etc for each and every transaction. Also document the starting balances on the day she entered the hospital. Download all account statements going forward. Download all check images going forward.

You are an honest person of course, but imagine you had to prove your honesty in an airtight way to a hypothetical hostile party. Prove that every penny is accounted-for and was spent for proper purpose. That's the level of detail you are after.

You are now a constructive trustee for your sister's finances. Trustees are sometimes called upon to produce an accounting. You will be happy to have the above details if someone asks you for an accounting.

(You should also keep similar records of money out of your own pocket you spend on your sister's behalf - like that tax issue you mentioned).
User avatar
Watty
Posts: 28813
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:55 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Watty »

Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:45 am Is there anything else, I'm forgetting?
In a couple of weeks when things may be a bit clearer one thing to do is to make sure of is that there is a plan for who will handle her finances if something happens to you and you cannot manage her finances for her.

It sounds like she is getting health insurance through her employer so you need to keep in close contact with them so that if it converts to COBRA when she is out on FMLA then her COBRA premiums need to keep getting paid. One of the problems with COBRA is that if the premium payments do not get paid there is a limited time to make them current to get the policy reactivated and if you miss that then it is almost impossible to get back on COBRA.

You need to verify everything with COBRA and not assume that just because you did not get a bill that everything is OK. I used COBRA after I retired and it was administered by a separate company and they did the bare minimum that they legally could and it would obvious that they would have loved for me to have missed something so they could drop my insurance since people using COBRA are typically pretty expensive.

When I was on COBRA I made sure that both my wife and my adult son knew how important making the COBRA payments was and they had instructions on how to do that.

Even if you can set up the COBRA payments to be automatically paid each month you still need to verify that it was actually paid and there was not a glitch.

There may be an open enrolment period for her employer healthcare in November even if she is on COBRA. The employer could even change health insurance companies and the options that are available. Be sure to keep in touch with the HR department about that too.
GJ48
Posts: 71
Joined: Tue May 14, 2019 9:44 am

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by GJ48 »

GJ48 wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:17 pm
Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:45 am ....personal finance...
Looking ahead, with a positive outcome, medication costs might affect her options. After my valve repair surgery I started out on warfarin. It's not very expensive but monitoring the medication can be involved and take a lot of time and energy. Fortunately, I was able to switch to one the newer medications that are much more expensive but it freed me up from the monitoring requirements of warfarin.

Sometimes the drug companies have financial support programs for patients who might not normally be able to afford their medication. The hospital should be able to help you with these programs if you decide to look into them down the road.
User avatar
celia
Posts: 16762
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:32 am
Location: SoCal

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by celia »

Financially, just make sure her monthly bills are being paid, including rent/mortgage, which would probably not send a monthly bill.

In 2 months or so, you may have to untangle insurance bills. You can get a head start in this by understanding her health insurance. And, make sure her PREMIUMS are being paid. This is now her most important bill!
Topic Author
Sockpuppet
Posts: 295
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:06 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Sockpuppet »

celia wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 2:58 pm Financially, just make sure her monthly bills are being paid, including rent/mortgage, which would probably not send a monthly bill.

In 2 months or so, you may have to untangle insurance bills. You can get a head start in this by understanding her health insurance. And, make sure her PREMIUMS are being paid. This is now her most important bill!
Her house is paid off. And we have a copy of the deed.

Yeah, I've twice emailed her employer how to setup payments for her premiums and haven't gotten a response. I'll stay on them. She has pretty solid insurance and the lead up to this surgery was expensive so her total out of pocket deductible has been covered minus $75.

She worked up until the day before her surgery so premiums are covered for this month.
Finridge
Posts: 1094
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Finridge »

Keeping her and you in my thoughts.

I think what you are doing is great, and I hope that if anything like this happens to me, I will have family that is as diligent and caring as you are.

If this continues much longer, you should look into getting appointed conservator for her.

And as others have pointed out, if she recovers sufficiently to have capacity for this, you should make sure you have a durable power of attorney, and a health care directive, in place for the future. And that is really an "actionable item" for all of us. We all should look into having these in place.
Cruise
Posts: 2751
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:17 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Cruise »

Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:45 am So this is a very weird post to write.

My sister had valve replacement surgery a little over a week ago, there were a number of complications, and she's been heavily sedated since then (basically in a medically induced coma but technically she's not). My sister is in her 30s and had been in pretty good health. She had had a heart murmur since she was a child so her heart was always something we kept an eye on and finally last spring her cardiologist had said the time had come to do something. So given that this was a scheduled procedure, this turn of events has been quite a shock (even though I was aware of the risks).

My question...is what should I be doing for her finances? She is not married and I'm next of kin.

I've fortunately been able to get into all her accounts with the exception of her retirement accounts. I also successfully guessed the passcode to her phone. I've informed her employer and confirmed she was approved for the Family Medial Leave Act. I'm waiting on info from her employer on how to pay her premiums. She had most of her bills on autopay and I've gone through and made sure her accounts are okay with funds (they should be okay for a few months). Credit cards and loans are taken care of.

Is there anything else, I'm forgetting?

My sister worked part-time so she's not eligible for short-term disability in our state. And because the doctor hasn't said her recovery time might be more than 12 months, we can't apply for long-term social security disability. And because she's getting insurance through FMLA she doesn't qualify for unemployment. However, she has no income coming now. It seems like there should be something I should apply for but I can't think of it.

I've also debated whether it's worth getting guardianship. The doctors hope to wake her up this week, but I'm not sure how with it she'll be (we've at least confirmed she's not brain dead). And obviously things could get worse to the point this is moot. My current view is as long as I'm not dealing with any entity that is refusing to let me represent her that it's not necessary.

Finally, one question in the back of my mind...is how to deal with doctor after this? The heart surgeon has great credentials, a lot of experience, and is board certified. But a valve replacement surgery that ends with two other seemingly healthy valves now damaged during a scheduled operation seems less than great. I'm not litigious and I know heart surgery carries a big risk in itself. But, it feels wrong to just accept "these things happen." Is there some option short of litigation where I can at least make sure we confirm everything was above board. It's really weird because I'm not sure if I should be thanking this doctor or cursing his name. I just have no clue.

Anyway, I know many will want to wish my sister well. I appreciate all prayers. That said, please stay on topic regarding the personal finance angle here.

My sympathies. My SIL died after a botched valve surgery. She was in her 40s and had a history of rheumatic fever. I recall talking to my PCP about this, and his attitude was that this is a routine procedure in the hands of an experienced surgeon. My wife’s family is not litigious, so everyone just moved on the best that they could.

Hoping that your sister makes a great recovery. She is fortunate to have a caring sibling such as you.
OCDinvestor
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 2:16 pm

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by OCDinvestor »

Sockpuppet wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:45 am Is there some option short of litigation where I can at least make sure we confirm everything was above board. It's really weird because I'm not sure if I should be thanking this doctor or cursing his name. I just have no clue.
MD here. Not medical advice, just some general advice.

I think first and foremost, do you feel you adequately understand the exact complications that occurred? This is important, for you to be able to ask appropriate questions of the attending physician surgeon/cardiologists. Do they feel they are able to manage these complications at their hospital?

What type of hospital was this performed in? Local community hospital, academic teaching hospital?

Is she in a rural type hospital, or in an urban type hospital?

Have you flat out asked the doctors if they feel she warrants a “higher level of care”, such as transfer to a nearby academic medical center?

Have they indicated if they feel she would tolerate a transfer?

My suggestions are dependent on the above.
goblue100
Posts: 1714
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:31 am

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by goblue100 »

Condolences on this stressful time in your lives. And a good reminder to all of us that our portfolios and affairs should be kept in order so others can manage them in the event of an extremely rare event. I'm in the wait it out for a week and see what happens camp, for the record.
"Confusion has its cost" - Crosby, Stills and Nash
NoblesvilleIN
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:04 pm
Location: Noblesville IN

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by NoblesvilleIN »

by Sockpuppet » Mon Sep 20, 2021 4:09 pm
Yeah, I've twice emailed her employer how to setup payments for her premiums and haven't gotten a response. I'll stay on them. She has pretty solid insurance and the lead up to this surgery was expensive so her total out of pocket deductible has been covered minus $75.

She worked up until the day before her surgery so premiums are covered for this month.
Do you know the name of her supervisor at her work? Where I retired from, most managers would have helped with the HR paperwork and also would have wanted to be kept informed. It might help to give her manager a call. While privacy laws need to be followed, the managers where I used to work would send out updates to co-workers as most had work together for years. It was normal for different co-workers to pitch in with food, etc. during recovery.

On her house: you might want to swing by, assuming you have a key, and turn the water off and shut the water heater down; put some lights on a timer, turn the furnace/AC blower to run constantly to keep air moving. Depending on what part of the country you are located, you may need to switch from AC to furnace to protect the house.

Good luck and your sister has a wonderful sibling.
Toadie
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:48 am

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Toadie »

Sandtrap wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:32 pm Do you have a financial power of attorney?

Do you have a medical power of attorney?

Seek legal counsel ASAP. It is better to be proactive right now than not be prepared if things and time escalates.
Don't do things on your own until you talk to legal counsel. Do things properly.

j :D
I agree that seeking legal counsel is a good idea, at least if the news doesn't improve significantly when she's revived next week. I'd urge you to look for a firm that has a significant trusts and estates practice as well as a general litigation practice. Most decent-sized cities will have two or three firms that fit the bill; large cities will have dozens. But you're in pretty specialized waters here, I wouldn't go to a solo practitioner or someone who just does general trusts and estates, and nor would I start out talking to someone who does medical malpractice--you may need to look at that eventually, but a good T&E lawyer at a generalist firm will help you decide the appropriate time for that step.

My guess is there's nothing else that needs to be done between now and next week, but I don't have much confidence in that guess. If I were in your shoes I'd want to have a one hour conversation with a good T&E lawyer to know what to look out for and what pitfalls to avoid, and then be in a position to go back with more urgent questions, or forget about it, depending what happens next week.

Good luck and take care.

edited to add: look for somebody in your area who is listed with ACTEC:
https://www.actec.org/
User avatar
Lee_WSP
Posts: 10346
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2019 5:15 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Personal Finance While in a Coma

Post by Lee_WSP »

Other than make sure to pay all the bills and potentially cancel some subscription services, there is not much to do *until* you have a good idea of the actual severity of the medical condition. At which point, you'll know which route you'll need to go.

Preemptively, I would start calling guardianship attorneys to do some soft interviewing. If it comes to that you'll be ready to go. And it gives you something constructive to do.

Best case scenario of course is that she recovers or recovers enough to be mentally fit. Worst case is you'll have to petition the courts for guardianship/conservatorship.

It's too late to do any prophylactic things like a living trust or DPOA or living will or MPOA. Come back and repost if she recovers and is amenable to learning about those things.
Post Reply