Do you get a raise before being fired?

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beachmom
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Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by beachmom »

Just wondering how worried I should be and what I can do about it anyway?
A few weeks ago the director of my department and my boss called me to a meeting and asked me to take on a new role, charge of a new "team". Previously this team's responsibilities had been spread around among various groups. They wanted to streamline things by consolidating these jobs. They told me I was good at organizing things and putting processes into place. Told me one staff member would report to me immediately and another one would be added to my team when she returned from family leave. I received a 10% raise and a private office. The director told me several changes were planned, including naming someone to take on my current role, but they wanted my agreement first. I accepted, and have been working hard to learn my new role.

Prior to this I was on a team that performed "upper level" tasks, but no one reported to me. I am in QA for a technical rapidly growing company. A week or so later when all the changes were announced, my supervisor shared that the director had not been allowed by the company owner to pick her own choice of replacement for me and some of the other roles and shared that the director felt "played" in agreeing before seeing the final set-up. In all 4-5 managers and supervisors had major changes in responsibilities and teams. In my opinion the changes yielded a more logical organizational structure. I was concerned that the tech managers wanted someone easier in QA that wouldn't question their actions as much. But I felt the new role would improve my marketability by broadening my experience and I like challenges and variety. I also thought when others took on my current role, they might realize that what I advocated for was needed eventually. So I agreed and have had a good attitude about it.

Today a colleague asked me to lunch. Her purpose was to tell me she was told in confidence that this entire change was "to make it easier to fire you in case it's necessary." This colleague has had disciplinary actions taken against her. She shared details about her own struggles, and I had been told this by others too. She told me she wanted me to know because she liked me and gave me a recruiters contact information.

So this lunch makes feel targeted personally in a way I didn't previously. There is always tension between QA and Lab. At this company QA isn't supported as it should be by the company owner. I have always felt that the QA director and my direct supervisor were happy with the job I do. I've been there 15 years, and I've never been told there's a problem with my work. A year ago I received a mid year raise in addition to the usual annual raise. I requested and received a better title last January. There's no union or contract, so if they wanted to fire me or have me make changes, why not just do it? Frankly there is less stress with this new role. I get to set my own priorities, the people involved are more pleasant, etc.

I can definitely watch for other job openings, but it's a small town and this field is highly specialized. I don't want to move and I only have 5-10 years until retirement. I could retire now if I had to.
What are your thoughts?
kd2008
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by kd2008 »

Focus on things you can control ... Like doing your job well, looking for other openings, having clear communication with supervisors on what you need to achieve to succeed, document these things.

Let the rest fall away from your focus.
Mike Scott
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Mike Scott »

Don't let office gossip ruin your new job. Find more supportive friends to have lunch with.
Californiastate
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Californiastate »

Why couldn't the company just fire you without jumping through hoops? Are you protected?
hotscot
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by hotscot »

I sympathize with you.
My wife was promoted from Technical Writer to Instructional Designer with $1000 increase.
Now her company is advertising for a Senior Technical Writer which includes requirements of what she does 95%.
We are [expletive removed by admin LadyGeek]?
Marseille07
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Marseille07 »

beachmom wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:50 pm Today a colleague asked me to lunch. Her purpose was to tell me she was told in confidence that this entire change was "to make it easier to fire you in case it's necessary."
Told by whom? Why would that person leak such info to the colleague?

I don't know their intent, but I don't find this rumor worth taking seriously.
Last edited by Marseille07 on Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
sailaway
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by sailaway »

From here, it sounds like you were targeted, but by a troublemaker, rather than by management.
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riverant
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by riverant »

This lunch is fishy. Why would this poor performer be aware of “secret” plans to fire you? Sounds like she is trying to get under your skin for some reason. Lots of crazies out there. I’d avoid her going forward

And as you pointed out, if they were going to fire you, there are much easier ways than paying you more first…
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vanbogle59
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by vanbogle59 »

beachmom wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:50 pm What are your thoughts?
Which beach, mom?
Mine is in FL
Which is an AT WILL state. Ain't no reason to play such silly games to fire someone.
KlangFool
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

1) Which state are you in? Why would anyone "fire" you? They just laid you off. It is too much trouble to fire anyone without sufficient documentation.

2) I would seriously doubt the rumor that you heard. Money talks. Why would anyone give you a pay raise and laid you off?

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RubyTuesday
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by RubyTuesday »

Avoid going to lunch with this person.

Carry on.
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Dottie57
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Dottie57 »

Mike Scott wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:00 pm Don't let office gossip ruin your new job. Find more supportive friends to have lunch with.
Bingo. Tattling co-workers are not good to look at. And this may be her interpretation of what , if anything, was said.

Do your job well.
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

This is my advice, you are in the drivers seat. You have the raise and the promotion. You said you have the financial capability to retire now, but why would you? I’d continue performing your work obligations, you are free to test the waters in the job market but I would hesitate calling that “recruiter” especially if you don’t know or better yet trust this “confidante lunch partner”. Find your own recruiter(s) or start networking. Save your money. But you need not be concerned, it seems like someone is trying to plant the seed of doubt in your head, (head games). Ignore it unless you have cause or gut instinct not to. Just focus on you.
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mary1492
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by mary1492 »

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Last edited by mary1492 on Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Normchad
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Normchad »

Office gossips are known to be gossips. They never have access to all the relevant information, so anything you hear has a lot of speculation or conspiracy theory in it. Sometimes it is all fiction.

This person, I’d avoid them. They have had discipline problems in the past. If nothing else, being associated with them could look bad in you.

Here is another possible explanation. This was done on purpose. And they picked you on purpose. But the motivation is not to fire you later, but rather to fix an internal problem, related to QA and team dynamics. I.e. things are screwed uo, the company wants to fix it, and they see potential in you to fix it. They think well of you.

In the absence of other information, I would believe your superiors over the gossips. And they put their money where their mouth is, which is also nice.
kelvan80
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by kelvan80 »

Maybe they want the new job. :)
ShowMeTheER
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by ShowMeTheER »

If your lunch mate is correct, this would be the first time in the history of management that this exercise was done. Ignore her.
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Beensabu
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Beensabu »

beachmom wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:50 pm Today a colleague asked me to lunch. Her purpose was to tell me she was told in confidence that this entire change was "to make it easier to fire you in case it's necessary." This colleague has had disciplinary actions taken against her. She shared details about her own struggles, and I had been told this by others too. She told me she wanted me to know because she liked me and gave me a recruiters contact information.
Sometimes, some people can suck.
They told me I was good at organizing things and putting processes into place.
That's nice.
I received a 10% raise and a private office.
That's even nicer.
I felt the new role would improve my marketability by broadening my experience and I like challenges and variety.
Sounds good.
I have always felt that the QA director and my direct supervisor were happy with the job I do. I've been there 15 years, and I've never been told there's a problem with my work. A year ago I received a mid year raise in addition to the usual annual raise. I requested and received a better title last January.
That's all awesome.
Frankly there is less stress with this new role. I get to set my own priorities, the people involved are more pleasant, etc.
Sounds like you're winning.
I could retire now if I had to.
You are most definitely winning.

So, either:

(1) Your colleague is a terrible person.

or

(2) Your colleague is telling the truth, and it doesn't matter because you have a less stressful role that you like, with more money, a private office, and more pleasant immediate coworkers, that broadens your experience and improves your marketability, and that you don't need anyway.

Enjoy your new role. Don't let anyone take your happiness.
"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next." ~Ursula LeGuin
BatBuckeye
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by BatBuckeye »

I remember some few people I worked were always negative. Somehow they always found something negative.
Fortunately, they were seldom if ever correct.
Is your colleague a negative or positive individual?
Hope you enjoy your new position.
123
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by 123 »

Actually one of the best ways to fire someone is to have given them a raise as well as very good performance reviews, particularly in an "at will" state. An employer can simply say that the positions were realigned and it was clear that one position no longer fit. Offer a reasonable severance package and it gets pretty easy for the employer to get rid of an employee. When the employer uses negative comments in a performance review it opens up a can of worms if that serves as a basis for a termination, there's lots that can be argued about in court in litigation.

A glowing performance review and a raise prior to termination is the business version of "it's not you, it's me/us". It also makes it easier for the employee to find another position, which also reduces the chance of litigation.

Employers who are aggressive and vindictive in termination actions do so at their own peril, and at their own (jacked up) expense.
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bottlecap
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by bottlecap »

TJat wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:13 pm This lunch is fishy. Why would this poor performer be aware of “secret” plans to fire you? Sounds like she is trying to get under your skin for some reason. Lots of crazies out there. I’d avoid her going forward

And as you pointed out, if they were going to fire you, there are much easier ways than paying you more first…
This. Giving someone a raise and promotion makes them harder to fire, not easier. If you need to fire someone, you don't promote them and you just document their file. If there is nothing to document, there is no reason to fire.

Anyone who talks bad about your company isn't helping you. Even if your company IS bad talking about it doesn't help you. Either you like it and stay or you don't and you leave.

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Normchad
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Normchad »

bottlecap wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:35 pm
TJat wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:13 pm This lunch is fishy. Why would this poor performer be aware of “secret” plans to fire you? Sounds like she is trying to get under your skin for some reason. Lots of crazies out there. I’d avoid her going forward

And as you pointed out, if they were going to fire you, there are much easier ways than paying you more first…
This. Giving someone a raise and promotion makes them harder to fire, not easier. If you need to fire someone, you don't promote them and you just document their file. If there is nothing to document, there is no reason to fire.

Anyone who talks bad about your company isn't helping you. Even if your company IS bad talking about it doesn't help you. Either you like it and stay or you don't and you leave.

JT
Yep. As an employer, we are very aware of the risk of going to court for a wrongful termination suit.

Imaging going into court, and the plaintiff says "I was doing great job. This termination was obviously due to ageism, or whatever. And to prove it, here are all my glowing performance reviews from the past. In fact, they just promoted me, and gave me a 10% raise. So it's not just me saying I'm awesome, they said it via raises and promotions.

Then the judge would look at the defendant, and say "open your wallet".
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AllMostThere
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by AllMostThere »

TJat wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:13 pm This lunch is fishy. Why would this poor performer be aware of “secret” plans to fire you? Sounds like she is trying to get under your skin for some reason. Lots of crazies out there. I’d avoid her going forward

And as you pointed out, if they were going to fire you, there are much easier ways than paying you more first…
+1 ^^^^^^ Every organization has it's bug eyed crazy. These people are great at stirring the pot and instilling FUD while they leave a path of destruction. Don't let her get under your skin. Cut her from your circle of confidence, put you head down and kick butt on the new job.
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toast0
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by toast0 »

I would, at most, take a little bit of time to print out your reviews and any other written communications (emails, etc?) of your management saying you're doing a good job kinds of thing. It seems unlikely, but just in case you need it for a wrongful termination suit, better to get it now, before you have to ask for it as discovery and/or before data retention policies remove it.
sfnerd
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by sfnerd »

I agree the coworker is nuts. In well over 2 decades in technology management, and having managed thousands of tech staff a an exec at megacorps, I just haven't seen this sort of thing occur.

While I have moved people to different teams when there is a bad dynamic, it's really rare to move people into new positions for this reason. Frankly, if someone is a problem, it's very easy to let them go. Giving someone a private office and a raise would be absolutely counterproductive in dealing with a problem employee, and only make it far more disruptive to fire them. It would also make management look bad, like they failed at restructuring a team/area.

This colleague is probably full of (ahem). If I were you, I'd ask the colleague where they got this bit of information. Call their bluff, and don't take them seriously.

Separately, do your job well, and make sure it's clear what success looks like in your role, with clear objectives, KPIs, etc. Ask your boss how you can add the most value to the company. Be positive. If you enjoy it, great. If not, look elsewhere.

Most importantly, don't worry about gossip, or about anything!
Doctor Rhythm
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Doctor Rhythm »

This colleague has had disciplinary actions taken against her. She shared details about her own struggles, and I had been told this by others too. She told me she wanted me to know because she liked me and gave me a recruiters contact information.
So she’s someone who is not at all creepy, disliked, or irresponsible, then. :wink:

Seriously, this sounds like a classic smile-and-back-away-slowly situation.
bling
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by bling »

beachmom wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:50 pm Today a colleague asked me to lunch. Her purpose was to tell me she was told in confidence that this entire change was "to make it easier to fire you in case it's necessary." This colleague has had disciplinary actions taken against her. She shared details about her own struggles, and I had been told this by others too. She told me she wanted me to know because she liked me and gave me a recruiters contact information.
agree with others. if you're at risk they would just lay you off on the spot or put you on a PIP rather than going through the trouble of promoting you first.

you didn't share much details about your colleague other than that she's your colleague. what's in it for her if you listened to her advice and quit?
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JoMoney
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by JoMoney »

...Her purpose was to tell me she was told in confidence that this entire change was "to make it easier to fire you in case it's necessary." This colleague has had disciplinary actions taken against her...
So she breaks whatever trust was allegedly confided in her, to be the messenger of bad and perhaps insulting news to you, and then connect you to a recruiter that she clearly has contact with, which indirectly implies that she herself is looking to leave, and would like you to come with her.

I'm sorry for how this situation might be making you feel. As an outside observer of the drama you've told to us, I don't like or trust this lunch gossip coworker in the subtle context of this story. I can relate to feeling on edge about being presented with something that feels like you should be making some important decisions about. Without any other supporting information that my job was more at risk then in the past, personally I think I would try to shrug off this rumor as if it never happened.
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by carolinaman »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:02 pm
beachmom wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:50 pm Today a colleague asked me to lunch. Her purpose was to tell me she was told in confidence that this entire change was "to make it easier to fire you in case it's necessary."
Told by whom? Why would that person leak such info to the colleague?

I don't know their intent, but I don't find this rumor worth taking seriously.
+1. This colleague does not seem to have any credibility so I would not take it seriously. Some people like to create angst within an organization. Focus on doing your job well.
humblecoder
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by humblecoder »

The only piece of evidence that you are going to be fired is your colleague's gossip. Colleague has had her own struggles and could have some incentive to cause disruption to get back at your common employer. Colleague gives you the number of a recruiter for which she could be receiving a referral kickback. All other objective evidence contradicts your colleague's statements.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what is going on.
mary1492
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by mary1492 »

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Last edited by mary1492 on Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
beachmom
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by beachmom »

OP, again. Thank you so much for the responses. My coworker's comments really had me doubting myself.
I will stay away from her in the future.
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beachmom
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by beachmom »

vanbogle59 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:17 pm
beachmom wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:50 pm What are your thoughts?
Which beach, mom?
Mine is in FL
Which is an AT WILL state. Ain't no reason to play such silly games to fire someone.
NC.
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beachmom
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by beachmom »

vanbogle59 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:17 pm
beachmom wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:50 pm What are your thoughts?
Which beach, mom?
Mine is in FL
Which is an AT WILL state. Ain't no reason to play such silly games to fire someone.
NC.
fleetwdl
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by fleetwdl »

In my experience there are often good reasons why an employee has been involved with the disciplinary process. Do not listen to that person. As others have written, look at how you've been treated by upper management recently. Feel blessed and soldier on doing great things for your team and your company.
ensign_lee
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by ensign_lee »

Usually, no.

That being said, that specific situation (a 25% raise, then being let go within 6 months) has happened to me. Oh, the joys of at-will employment and "right to work" laws (they are never to help employees, and politicians who champion them are NOT your friends).
gogreen
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by gogreen »

beachmom wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:50 pm Her purpose was to tell me she was told in confidence that this entire change was "to make it easier to fire you in case it's necessary." This colleague has had disciplinary actions taken against her.
What are your thoughts?
When I went to Whole Foods last night, there was a homeless person yelling 'The apocalypses will happen tomorrow!"
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vanbogle59
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by vanbogle59 »

gogreen wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:06 am
beachmom wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:50 pm Her purpose was to tell me she was told in confidence that this entire change was "to make it easier to fire you in case it's necessary." This colleague has had disciplinary actions taken against her.
What are your thoughts?
When I went to Whole Foods last night, there was a homeless person yelling 'The apocalypses will happen tomorrow!"
Thoughts, suggestions on what to do? :sharebeer
Holy Cr@p! What time zone are you in???
Jags4186
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Jags4186 »

There is danger any time there is a reorg. I’ve have been in situations when all of a sudden VPs and Directors are getting hired all over the place. They swap out tons of people underneath them. A bunch of the VPs and Directors are gone within 18 months and carnage is left behind.

That said, supervisors don’t give non-budgeted mid year raises to employees they aren’t happy with and certainly don’t give stretch assignments with the hope that you fail and are terminated. It’s way too much work…much easier to “eliminate the position.”

Your coworker sounds jealous IMO. When I received a promotion people on my team all acted differently towards me and we’re all remote worker. Can’t imagine what an office setting would be like.
tsohg
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by tsohg »

beachmom wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:50 pm Today a colleague asked me to lunch. Her purpose was to tell me she was told in confidence that this entire change was "to make it easier to fire you in case it's necessary." This colleague has had disciplinary actions taken against her. She shared details about her own struggles, and I had been told this by others too. She told me she wanted me to know because she liked me and gave me a recruiters contact information.
This person sounds toxic. Her mentality is "they're out to get me, so they're out to get you too". Is this who you want mentoring you on your career / role within the org?
Onlineid3089
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Onlineid3089 »

I wouldn't worry about it. Leaders are typically not in the business of intentionally having a failed restructuring attributed to them, if for no other reason than it makes them look bad and may limit their future potential in the company.
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Lalamimi »

I have been laid off in the past after being given an area of work that was going away. Learned years later the company had been told to downsize, way down. Just to your best and stay away from toxic lady. Been there.
Go Cy
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Go Cy »

Is it possible this coworker is getting a kickback from the recruiter for funneling new clients to them? I wonder how many coworker lunches she has been on?
Robdac
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Robdac »

Where I used to work the "Employee of the Month" for October was "Downsized" in November. Anything can happen. Good luck.
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Raymond
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Raymond »

I think your coworker believes she can get your job by causing you to quit, or rattle you enough that your performance suffers, and you get fired.

I'd minimize any further contact with her beyond what is required by work.

And watch her hands - that's where the dagger is...
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by investnoob »

ShowMeTheER wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 7:56 pm If your lunch mate is correct, this would be the first time in the history of management that this exercise was done. Ignore her.
People get to promoted, or transferred into new roles, so that they can get PIPed out all of the time. It is pretty common.
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Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by Ramjet »

beachmom wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:50 pm Just wondering how worried I should be and what I can do about it anyway?
A few weeks ago the director of my department and my boss called me to a meeting and asked me to take on a new role, charge of a new "team". Previously this team's responsibilities had been spread around among various groups. They wanted to streamline things by consolidating these jobs. They told me I was good at organizing things and putting processes into place. Told me one staff member would report to me immediately and another one would be added to my team when she returned from family leave. I received a 10% raise and a private office. The director told me several changes were planned, including naming someone to take on my current role, but they wanted my agreement first. I accepted, and have been working hard to learn my new role.

Prior to this I was on a team that performed "upper level" tasks, but no one reported to me. I am in QA for a technical rapidly growing company. A week or so later when all the changes were announced, my supervisor shared that the director had not been allowed by the company owner to pick her own choice of replacement for me and some of the other roles and shared that the director felt "played" in agreeing before seeing the final set-up. In all 4-5 managers and supervisors had major changes in responsibilities and teams. In my opinion the changes yielded a more logical organizational structure. I was concerned that the tech managers wanted someone easier in QA that wouldn't question their actions as much. But I felt the new role would improve my marketability by broadening my experience and I like challenges and variety. I also thought when others took on my current role, they might realize that what I advocated for was needed eventually. So I agreed and have had a good attitude about it.

Today a colleague asked me to lunch. Her purpose was to tell me she was told in confidence that this entire change was "to make it easier to fire you in case it's necessary." This colleague has had disciplinary actions taken against her. She shared details about her own struggles, and I had been told this by others too. She told me she wanted me to know because she liked me and gave me a recruiters contact information.

So this lunch makes feel targeted personally in a way I didn't previously. There is always tension between QA and Lab. At this company QA isn't supported as it should be by the company owner. I have always felt that the QA director and my direct supervisor were happy with the job I do. I've been there 15 years, and I've never been told there's a problem with my work. A year ago I received a mid year raise in addition to the usual annual raise. I requested and received a better title last January. There's no union or contract, so if they wanted to fire me or have me make changes, why not just do it? Frankly there is less stress with this new role. I get to set my own priorities, the people involved are more pleasant, etc.

I can definitely watch for other job openings, but it's a small town and this field is highly specialized. I don't want to move and I only have 5-10 years until retirement. I could retire now if I had to.
What are your thoughts?
I wouldn't worry until you got a poor review that was not warranted
mr_brightside
Posts: 897
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 3:23 pm

Re: Do you get a raise before being fired?

Post by mr_brightside »

beachmom wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:42 pm OP, again. Thank you so much for the responses. My coworker's comments really had me doubting myself.
I will stay away from her in the future.
sounds like a good plan. some people are prone to creating a toxic environment around them. sounds like she may be that type.

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