Buying my first house (and off-market)

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boglerocks
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Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by boglerocks »

I'm close to buying my first house. It's off-market but the owner is apparently inclined to sell and their realtor has shown us the place once already. What should I check on before making a cash offer?
hotscot
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by hotscot »

Congratulations. We did this two years ago here in CA. Paid $840,000 now worth 1.1M.

Seriously, let your realtor do their job. If you don't have one get one.
That's all you need to do as long as you have financing lined up.

Don't try to preempt your realtor. Don't communicate directly with the sellers.

Why do they have a realtor if it was off market?
Last edited by hotscot on Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
boglerocks
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by boglerocks »

I don't think my realtor is incentivized to spot problems and help me figure out if it's the right house.
hotscot
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by hotscot »

The 'right' house is your decision. Not the Realtor's.
To spot problems they must get in an inspector and I recommend a 12 month warranty after sales for any serious failures.

I sometimes have a low opinion of realtors, especially on their fees. But to be honest considering the required paperwork a good realtor is worth it in gold.
Make sure your realtor is not freelance but is associated with a well known brokerage.
Last edited by hotscot on Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
boglerocks
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by boglerocks »

What about doing a local pervert search online? Any other stuff like that?
hotscot
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by hotscot »

http://www.city-data.com/forum/

Yes, but, there are other threads on this, neighbors, flood plains, dogs barking.

Due diligence. And do drive by's at morning/night.

(We moved from 2 acres with dirt bikes night and day. Now we're 30 mins walk to the harbor. Too quiet at night :D . Waking up by birdsong in the morning. Those damned hummingbirds.)
hotscot
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by hotscot »

boglerocks wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:29 pm What about doing a local pervert search online? Any other stuff like that?
Are you looking for one? :shock:
humblecoder
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by humblecoder »

boglerocks wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:16 pm I'm close to buying my first house. It's off-market but the owner is apparently inclined to sell and their realtor has shown us the place once already. What should I check on before making a cash offer?
When you say "their realtor", do you mean the seller's realtor? If so, be aware that the seller's realtor represents the seller and their best interests, not yours. If I were you, I'd hire my own realtor who represents MY interests. As a buyer, hiring a realtor is free to you, since his/her commission is paid by the seller. Honestly, there is little reason NOT to have a realtor as a buyer.

For example. you mention things to "check on". When you put an offer on a house, you can put an inspection contingency into the contract. Basically, this means that you have the right to hire a home inspector to evaluate the house to look for issues and you can get out of the contract if anything is found that you don't like. When we purchased our current house, we had a general home inspection done, as well as a pest inspection, an inspection of the chimney, and a radon test done. If you had a realtor, they would have explained this to you to put your mind at ease.
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boglerocks
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by boglerocks »

I do have a realtor but from an economic perspective he is incentivized to close the deal and at the highest possible price. I met him when he showed me another house as that seller's agent. I told him what I was looking for and he got in touch when he found exactly that off-market so I'm obligated to use him as my agent for this house.

Neighbors and dogs I'm concerned about. When we saw the house the neighbor was playing music way too loud and the other neighbor had a barking dog. We've been doing some drive-bys but need to do more.

I'm hoping to be put in touch with the owners to ask them some questions.
Valuethinker
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by Valuethinker »

boglerocks wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:16 am I do have a realtor but from an economic perspective he is incentivized to close the deal and at the highest possible price. I met him when he showed me another house as that seller's agent. I told him what I was looking for and he got in touch when he found exactly that off-market so I'm obligated to use him as my agent for this house.

Neighbors and dogs I'm concerned about. When we saw the house the neighbor was playing music way too loud and the other neighbor had a barking dog. We've been doing some drive-bys but need to do more.

I'm hoping to be put in touch with the owners to ask them some questions.
Massive red flags. The dog isn't going anywhere and neither is the neighbor stereo.

If these are problems, then you wouldn't buy the house, right? At which point, you have to have a balance of judgement that says these are problems. Remember the realtor is working for the seller, not the buyer - that's who they owe their duty of care to.

Can you check if legal complaints have been filed with the local government? Because you don't want to get into litigation with your new neighbors -- implication would be that they are quite prepared to dig their heels in to enjoy "their" property.

There's no way (that I know of) that you can legally compel people to stop *except* some kind of court order (or HOA?).
DoTheMath
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by DoTheMath »

boglerocks wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:16 am I do have a realtor but from an economic perspective he is incentivized to close the deal and at the highest possible price. I met him when he showed me another house as that seller's agent. I told him what I was looking for and he got in touch when he found exactly that off-market so I'm obligated to use him as my agent for this house.

Neighbors and dogs I'm concerned about. When we saw the house the neighbor was playing music way too loud and the other neighbor had a barking dog. We've been doing some drive-bys but need to do more.

I'm hoping to be put in touch with the owners to ask them some questions.
I agree you have to do your own due diligence as everyone involved is incentivized to close the deal. For the potential noise and other neighborhood issues I’d chat with some of the other neighbors. Just tell them you’re thinking of buying in the neighborhood and ask for the pros and cons in their experience. They have no incentive to fib, and should tell you useful info — plus you’d get a chance to meet them.
“I am losing precious days. I am degenerating into a machine for making money. I am learning nothing in this trivial world of men. I must break away and get out into the mountains...” -- John Muir
exodusNH
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by exodusNH »

boglerocks wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:16 am I do have a realtor but from an economic perspective he is incentivized to close the deal and at the highest possible price. I met him when he showed me another house as that seller's agent. I told him what I was looking for and he got in touch when he found exactly that off-market so I'm obligated to use him as my agent for this house.

Neighbors and dogs I'm concerned about. When we saw the house the neighbor was playing music way too loud and the other neighbor had a barking dog. We've been doing some drive-bys but need to do more.

I'm hoping to be put in touch with the owners to ask them some questions.
If you're planning on being there 10+ years, these things will come and go.

The house across the street from me was owned by a man in his 70s. It was his childhood home. He sold to a 30s couple. They sold to a younger couple who divorced about a year later. The man worked and left his dog outside, barking all the time. The house went into foreclosure. It was bought at auction and flipped to a 50s couple. The man moved from Florida to run the new Amazon warehouse. They brought with them three barking rats. Fortunately, they hated the house and moved out just this week. (Many of the houses in this neighborhood date from the 1920s and don't meet many people's modern expectations.) It has not gone up for sale yet; I suspect they are waiting for the two year mark as the house is only in the woman's name.

The point being that even if the neighborhood were perfect now, you have no control over what happens in the future.
humblecoder
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by humblecoder »

boglerocks wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:16 am I do have a realtor but from an economic perspective he is incentivized to close the deal and at the highest possible price. I met him when he showed me another house as that seller's agent. I told him what I was looking for and he got in touch when he found exactly that off-market so I'm obligated to use him as my agent for this house.

Neighbors and dogs I'm concerned about. When we saw the house the neighbor was playing music way too loud and the other neighbor had a barking dog. We've been doing some drive-bys but need to do more.

I'm hoping to be put in touch with the owners to ask them some questions.
It is true that realtors do have an incentive to close the deal since that's how they get paid. However, good realtors also are playing the "long game". Like anyone in a sales or commission-based occupation, the way they become really successful is through referrals. Client acquisition is one of the hardest, most time consuming, and most expensive part of any sales operation. Referrals greatly reduces the cost and effort of this process.

If your realtor treats you well, gets you into the house that best fits your needs, and generally looks out for you is going to be more likely to get a referral from you. If all the realtor cares about is closing the one sale right in front of him/her but they end up screwing you in the process, not only are you not going to get the referral. You are probably going to give them a negative referral. In this day and age of the Internet, those good and bad reviews are only amplified.

I am pointing this out to you to show that good realtors realize that they are also financially incentivized to do right by you, so they can get that referral business. And if you happen to have a realtor who doesn't have this long term thinking in your opinion, drop them. It sounds like you have your doubts about the home that your current realtor showed you, so even if you are obligated to use them for this house, it doesn't matter since you might not buy the house anyway.

You mention concerns about the neighbor and dogs. May or may not be a concern. You might have just seen the house on a bad day, so to speak. We had a house where we had one neighbor who was generally quiet. However, there was one weekend where he had a 50th birthday party for his wife. They put up a tent in the backyard and had about 50 people over. If you would have seen the house on that day, you may have thought "boy that neighbor is loud with his parties", but that was 1 day out of the 12 years that we lived in the house. The other 11 years, 364 days, he was a great neighbor.

Talking to the owner about it may not reveal anything. Speaking of incentives, the owner is incentivized to minimize the negatives of the house, even moreso than the realtor. They could just shrug it off as not a big deal when it IS a big deal, just to sell the house and get out of there!
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by adamthesmythe »

boglerocks wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:25 pm I don't think my realtor is incentivized to spot problems and help me figure out if it's the right house.
You need to look deeply into your soul...and see enough other houses to get a sense of what you want/ like.

Oh, and get inspections. If you don't know what inspections you need, you are not ready.

I don't get people who hear about one particular house for sale and decide...without seeing anything else...yeah, sure, that one will do.
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boglerocks
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by boglerocks »

We've been house shopping for 3-4 years. We know exactly what we want and this is the first house we've seen that has it all. It feels like a miracle. The dog and loud neighbor are a concern (and could each drive me nuts honestly) but it's true even if you move in without those problems they could pop up any time.

I love the idea of checking with the HOA and local government for complaints, and knocking on the doors of neighbors is a good idea for several reasons. However I was asked to sign an NDA and did so before seeing the house for the first time. I was told the owners are very private and don't want it known that the house is for sale. This could make it much more difficult or impossible to do these checks.

I'd like to hire a real estate lawyer. I've been in escrow before and hired a law firm then through a referral from a business acquaintance and had an absolutely terrible time with them. I don't know of a better way to find a good lawyer than through a referral so I'll probably use that method again although I'll be more careful. Any advice in this regard would be much appreciated.

I have no idea which inspections I need.
hotscot
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by hotscot »

'However I was asked to sign an NDA and did so before seeing the house for the first time.'

Seriously?
These things are generally unenforceable anyway.
exodusNH
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by exodusNH »

boglerocks wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:40 am We've been house shopping for 3-4 years. We know exactly what we want and this is the first house we've seen that has it all. It feels like a miracle. The dog and loud neighbor are a concern (and could each drive me nuts honestly) but it's true even if you move in without those problems they could pop up any time.

I love the idea of checking with the HOA and local government for complaints, and knocking on the doors of neighbors is a good idea for several reasons. However I was asked to sign an NDA and did so before seeing the house for the first time. I was told the owners are very private and don't want it known that the house is for sale. This could make it much more difficult or impossible to do these checks.

I'd like to hire a real estate lawyer. I've been in escrow before and hired a law firm then through a referral from a business acquaintance and had an absolutely terrible time with them. I don't know of a better way to find a good lawyer than through a referral so I'll probably use that method again although I'll be more careful. Any advice in this regard would be much appreciated.

I have no idea which inspections I need.
It's a general pre-purchase home inspection. It costs $200-$400. (Or did, it's been 16 years since I needed it.) The realtor can probably give you some names.
DoTheMath
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by DoTheMath »

boglerocks wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:40 am I love the idea of checking with the HOA and local government for complaints, and knocking on the doors of neighbors is a good idea for several reasons. However I was asked to sign an NDA and did so before seeing the house for the first time. I was told the owners are very private and don't want it known that the house is for sale. This could make it much more difficult or impossible to do these checks.
A NDA is ridiculous. Regardless, as as long as you don't disclose which property you are considering in these discussions, I don't see how it could apply*. If you just said you were considering buying into the neighborhood and kept it at that level of generality, it's hard to see how this could be a problem.

Unless, of course, the neighborhood only has two houses :D .


* IANAL.
“I am losing precious days. I am degenerating into a machine for making money. I am learning nothing in this trivial world of men. I must break away and get out into the mountains...” -- John Muir
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boglerocks
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by boglerocks »

That's a good point. I could probably technically not violate the NDA by simply not revealing the exact address. Might anger the sellers if it got back to them though.
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by alpenglow »

hotscot wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:32 pm http://www.city-data.com/forum/

Yes, but, there are other threads on this, neighbors, flood plains, dogs barking.

Due diligence. And do drive by's at morning/night.

(We moved from 2 acres with dirt bikes night and day. Now we're 30 mins walk to the harbor. Too quiet at night :D . Waking up by birdsong in the morning. Those damned hummingbirds.)
ATVs and dirt bikes can be brutal. Glad you found a new place!
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alpenglow
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by alpenglow »

boglerocks wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:29 pm What about doing a local pervert search online? Any other stuff like that?
Realtors aren't going to do that type of stuff. Most DD is on you.
hotscot
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by hotscot »

boglerocks wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:19 pm That's a good point. I could probably technically not violate the NDA by simply not revealing the exact address. Might anger the sellers if it got back to them though.
Don't give a damn.
It's your money.
DonFifer
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by DonFifer »

I agree that the neighborhood you buy into today is not going to be the same neighborhood tomorrow. At 23 years old, I bought into a neighborhood full of young families with dogs and cats and all of the associated aspects of life (school buses, baseball games in the street, a kid who was planning to be a drummer, etc.). Since then, all the neighborhood kids have grown up and moved away, and 5 of my closest neighbors have passed away. After 48 years in this house, the neighborhood is reverting back to being a neighborhood of young families with dogs and cats and all of the associated aspects of life. The biggest difference is that the new kids put on a yearly 4th of July parade, which will probably disappear, once they become teenagers. The only things that are going to get me out of this house are dementia or death. The money I have saved over the years by not paying rent has gone into rental properties and investment accounts. Life is good.
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by BogleHead1008 »

boglerocks wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:16 am I do have a realtor but from an economic perspective he is incentivized to close the deal and at the highest possible price. I met him when he showed me another house as that seller's agent. I told him what I was looking for and he got in touch when he found exactly that off-market so I'm obligated to use him as my agent for this house.

Neighbors and dogs I'm concerned about. When we saw the house the neighbor was playing music way too loud and the other neighbor had a barking dog. We've been doing some drive-bys but need to do more.

I'm hoping to be put in touch with the owners to ask them some questions.
Huge red flags for me and I wouldnt buy a house if my neighbor had either one of those... barking dogs are the worst, they cant be stopped and most owners leave them in the yard so they can sleep better.
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by jfn111 »

alpenglow wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 12:22 pm
boglerocks wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 8:29 pm What about doing a local pervert search online? Any other stuff like that?
Realtors aren't going to do that type of stuff. Most DD is on you.
In MN we are not allowed to disclose known sex offenders. We can supply the client with the web address where they can look it up on their own.
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alpenglow
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by alpenglow »

BogleHead1008 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:44 pm
boglerocks wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:16 am I do have a realtor but from an economic perspective he is incentivized to close the deal and at the highest possible price. I met him when he showed me another house as that seller's agent. I told him what I was looking for and he got in touch when he found exactly that off-market so I'm obligated to use him as my agent for this house.

Neighbors and dogs I'm concerned about. When we saw the house the neighbor was playing music way too loud and the other neighbor had a barking dog. We've been doing some drive-bys but need to do more.

I'm hoping to be put in touch with the owners to ask them some questions.
Huge red flags for me and I wouldnt buy a house if my neighbor had either one of those... barking dogs are the worst, they cant be stopped and most owners leave them in the yard so they can sleep better.
Yes - run for the hills. Loud neighbors don't change.
hotscot
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by hotscot »

They do.
They get louder.
And bring their cousins.
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alpenglow
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by alpenglow »

hotscot wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:28 pm They do.
They get louder.
And bring their cousins.
HA! So true. Unfortunately, I know this from personal experience. :annoyed
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Re: Buying my first house (and off-market)

Post by Dottie57 »

BogleHead1008 wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:44 pm
boglerocks wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:16 am I do have a realtor but from an economic perspective he is incentivized to close the deal and at the highest possible price. I met him when he showed me another house as that seller's agent. I told him what I was looking for and he got in touch when he found exactly that off-market so I'm obligated to use him as my agent for this house.

Neighbors and dogs I'm concerned about. When we saw the house the neighbor was playing music way too loud and the other neighbor had a barking dog. We've been doing some drive-bys but need to do more.

I'm hoping to be put in touch with the owners to ask them some questions.
Huge red flags for me and I wouldnt buy a house if my neighbor had either one of those... barking dogs are the worst, they cant be stopped and most owners leave them in the yard so they can sleep better.
+1. Don’t buy when you already know there are problems.
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