Incident

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dukeblue219
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by dukeblue219 »

asnlc wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:48 pm
TxAg wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:11 pm Have y'all addressed the dog?
He's a rescue and had some training before and he'll need some more after this. I should have also handled him better - since he's not my dog, should have paid better attention to him during our walk when the incident happened.
Is this really something you want to say on a public website when you're concerned about being sued?
HomeStretch
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by HomeStretch »

valleyrock wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:54 am What sort of injury would result just from a dog's jumping?…
In a family’s case, a very large unleashed dog ran out from a yard and jumped on a family member (in good health but older) who was walking on a public sidewalk. The dog knocked the family member down breaking the person’s hip. The family member contracted pneumonia while recovering in a rehab facility and died.

I was across the street (no sidewalk) from a house when the homeowner opened the door and two very large dogs ran out and made a beeline for me. One was behind my legs and the other came up in front of me and leapt up placing paws on my chest. The force was enough to knock me back and over the dog behind me. Bruising and a head bump from head hitting pavement but luckily no serious injuries.
tenkuky
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by tenkuky »

Watty wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 6:24 pm
It would be good to have a long talk with you vet about if the dog should be put down or not.

I am not saying that the dog should automatically be put down but that is a discussion with the vet that you need to have.
I was going to react to your first statement, then I saw your second so I calmed down. :twisted:
I seriously would consider behavioral interventions before going this route.
JPG80
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by JPG80 »

As a plaintiff's trial attorney, I respectfully disagree with the advice to preemptively notify the carrier. If this is a minor bite, the overwhelming odds are that there won't be a suit. Regardless though, the carrier is not going to care or take any action until it gets notified of a potential claim by the claimant (or his or her counsel).
sschoe2
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by sschoe2 »

exodusNH wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:49 pm
asnlc wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:25 pm
SanAntionetta wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:17 pm You should get in touch with the dog owners' insurance first (are they a household member?) since they are strictly liable for the actions of their pets.

I would recommend contacting the insurer ASAP. They might be able to reach out to the injured party and resolve the matter before they get too litigious. Seriously the earlier the better. (I used to do this for a living)
Yes, they're a household member. The caveat is we do have some finances mixed up (own a home together) but the umbrella policy was drawn under my name. At this point, I'm sort of lumping us into the same entity (we're both affected) even though the dog belongs to them. Had civil conversations with the other party and we do not know the extent of potential injury. Sounds like you would still reach out to insurance asap to get a head start. What was your job before - insurance or on the legal side? Any idea if my premiums will shoot up if I reach out to insurance, but do not file a claim? TY.
If the injured person had health insurance, what's likely to happen is that they went to the ER/urgent care/doctor. The provider took their insurance information and filled out the treatment forms. Within a couple of weeks, the injured person is going to get a letter from their insurance company asking for details on the injury. Their insurance company is looking for someone to cover the bill. They'll give them your name; now you're going to find yourself either getting directly contacted by that insurance company or they're going to contact your insurance company.

Better to get ahead of this. If nothing else, at least you won't spend the next two months dreading getting the mail or a listening to voice mail.
It could be a lot longer than a few weeks. My late mother fell off an exam table at her Dr.'s and fractured her wrist. I got a questioneer from her insurance 9 months later asking for details of the incident.
ROIGuy
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by ROIGuy »

To show you how times have changed, an old client of mine told me that when she was a little girl there was a dog nearby as she played. Her parents told her not to bother the dog. Of course a short time later she went over and tried to play with the dog, which bit her. She told me her parents told the dog owner not to worry that it was her daughters fault; that they told her not to bother their dog.
Money_Badger
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by Money_Badger »

Sandtrap wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:19 pm Seek legal counsel ASAP.

Cover your bases.
j🌺
There is no need to do that. Just contact the homeowner's carrier, they'll handle it. That's why he has insurance. If the carrier thinks legal counsel is in order (they won't though unless this develops into a lawsuit), they will hire an attorney to defend the OP.

I used to handle these types of claims for a living. If you contact an attorney, any good attorney would just tell you to report it to the homeowner's insurance.
chazas
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by chazas »

The very first thing I would have done was offer to pay the injured party’s out of pocket medical expenses. I know we’re a litigious society, but it would just be the right thing to do.

I am a lawyer but about as far from that kind of lawyer as one can be. However, I watch a lot of Judge Judy. :happy
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Tubes
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by Tubes »

JPG80 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:14 am As a plaintiff's trial attorney, I respectfully disagree with the advice to preemptively notify the carrier. If this is a minor bite, the overwhelming odds are that there won't be a suit. Regardless though, the carrier is not going to care or take any action until it gets notified of a potential claim by the claimant (or his or her counsel).
My umbrella policy says "Notify our claims department if there is any chance there could be a liability loss claimed against this policy."

Of course, "any chance" is a vague term, so that leaves it up to the OP. I always took it to mean that I was served with some papers, or verbally told that the other party was engaged with counsel. So far, that hasn't happened, so I guess I'm agreeing with JPG80.

I find it interesting that lawyers have different opinions. Back when I worked at a tech megacorp, we got conflicting advice from our corporate legal. Our general counsel told us to not keep emails and to not archive email for more than 1 month. Our IP counsel said to keep everything forever, so that we could defend "ankle biter" patent claims.

It was all so confusing.
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asnlc
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by asnlc »

Carnut wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:03 am I think you should contact your insurance carrier asap and report the incident. They in turn will contact the injured party and try to mitigate the $$ paid out. If not, there are 2 years (statute of limitation in your post) where you may or may not get a letter from an attorney seeking compensation for injuries and mental anguish. You can then put the responsibility on the insurance carrier to handle this correctly and you not have to worry about it from a legal standpoint. Regarding higher insurance premiums or being dropped at renewal by the current carrier, that is a possibility. The breed of dog and bite history are factors that they generally look at. Lastly, a good independent insurance agent should help if your present company takes that action.
Thanks - I actually did call them yesterday to give a heads up. But they didn't seem to have any interest until I actually had a claim to file. I will give them a call again today to see if a different rep might have a different opinion and can guide us a little better. Yes, would def prefer for insurance to handle this and to keep me out of it as much as possible.
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asnlc
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by asnlc »

valleyrock wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:54 am What sort of injury would result just from a dog's jumping? That sort of sounds like they're setting things up for a claim for distress or something.
.....
Within days of it happening, I received junk mail from several "dog bite law firms" who were very eager to help me sue someone...
How'd they find out?

___________

Reading this makes realize I should let our homeowner's/umbrella insurance company know we now have a dog.
I don't want to discuss too much of the specifics about the potential injury, but from what they're telling me, it's not outrageous. Yep, definitely let your insurance know about the dog asap. If I recall correctly, they didn't charge extra for having a dog which I thought was odd.
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Sandtrap
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by Sandtrap »

Money_Badger wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:26 am
Sandtrap wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:19 pm Seek legal counsel ASAP.

Cover your bases.
j🌺
There is no need to do that. Just contact the homeowner's carrier, they'll handle it. That's why he has insurance. If the carrier thinks legal counsel is in order (they won't though unless this develops into a lawsuit), they will hire an attorney to defend the OP.

I used to handle these types of claims for a living. If you contact an attorney, any good attorney would just tell you to report it to the homeowner's insurance.
Good points.
You're right.

(For myself only), I used to have an attorney friend on "speed dial" that handled all of my businesses. It was a habit to call him whenever I was in doubt about anything.
Aloha
j :D

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asnlc
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by asnlc »

JPG80 wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:14 am As a plaintiff's trial attorney, I respectfully disagree with the advice to preemptively notify the carrier. If this is a minor bite, the overwhelming odds are that there won't be a suit. Regardless though, the carrier is not going to care or take any action until it gets notified of a potential claim by the claimant (or his or her counsel).
Yeah, insurance didn't seem particularly interested until I wanted to file a claim. Without providing too much info, I do believe things could escalate though and I want to be prepared.
Money_Badger
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by Money_Badger »

PSA. In many states, certain breeds are excluded from coverage under the standard HO policy.

If you have a dog, you might want to check your HO policy to make sure it's not excluded. Commonly excluded breeds are Pit Bulls, Akitas, Rottweilers, Malamutes, Chows ...
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asnlc
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by asnlc »

chazas wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:44 am The very first thing I would have done was offer to pay the injured party’s out of pocket medical expenses. I know we’re a litigious society, but it would just be the right thing to do.

I am a lawyer but about as far from that kind of lawyer as one can be. However, I watch a lot of Judge Judy. :happy
Ha....I need to tune into Judge Judy more. I was thinking about offering to pay the medical expenses, but was a bit at a loss on how to approach it i.e whether insurance would be involved on handling medical expenses or not. Also at the time, it didn't look like a bite that warranted a trip to the ER but looking back I should have offered to pay for the visit had they wanted to go. I will probably follow up with them. I think my brain just turned to mush from the incident and not really knowing what to do from a legal standpoint.
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dodecahedron
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by dodecahedron »

valleyrock wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:54 am What sort of injury would result just from a dog's jumping? That sort of sounds like they're setting things up for a claim for distress or something.
An older person with balance issues could easily sustain a fall, possibly breaking a bone or spraining something.

Personally, I have always been extremely annoyed when a large dog jumps on me or even comes charging at me unexpectedly. (I still remember, over 50 years ago, getting almost knocked over by an overly friendly and excited large male dog after returning from a babysitting job, where--unbeknownst to me--my babysitting client's female dog had been in heat. Apparently I and/or my clothes had unknowingly picked up her smell.)

That dog fortunately did not knock me off my feet 50 years ago (I was a sturdy young teen at the time), but I could easily imagine a large dog knocking me off my feet today.

I have also experienced a huge strange dog jumping up on a special needs nonverbal child I was pushing in a stroller in a public park. The child had severe developmental emotional challenges and was extremely distressed about being in the position of being strapped into a stroller with a big dog jumping all over him. The owner had the temerity to admonish the child for his terrified reaction.

I do not think lawsuits are the answer, but I do think that people who insist on having dogs really should keep them on very short leashes (or in fenced private yards or fenced public dog parks.) Passersby should not be at risk for being jumped on or bitten.

Edited to add: the above said, I do empathize with what the OP wrote below. To err is human. My bottom line: the odds are that the financial damages from a dog incident such as the OP describes are de minimis in the greater scheme of things. (Interestingly, one of my children wound up being in a jury pool for a dog-bite case that almost went to trial. The dog's owner was a commercial business enterprise. As usual, there was a last minute settlement. It is apparently common for such things to happen. Her perception (from what she was able to discern from the case description as a prospective juror) was that it was a pretty frivolous lawsuit.
asnlc wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:58 pm I think my brain just turned to mush from the incident and not really knowing what to do from a legal standpoint.
Best wishes, OP, and PLEASE consider keeping that dog on a short leash in the future.
Bearlurker
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by Bearlurker »

Hi I’m late to the party but thought I’d chime in. I’m a lawyer and I’ve sued insurance companies.
OP you shouldn’t be posting all this information particularly about you being lax on supervision.
You should call a trusted attorney for advice.
As a general proposition, most insurance policies require you to promptly notify about a claim. A dog biting someone is not a claim. However some policies or applications require notification or disclosure about facts and circumstances that might give rise to a claim.
Regarding dogs and insurance, everyone should contact insurer before getting a dog. Many insurers exclude coverage for certain breeds. Same goes for trampolines, pools etc. I switched insurers once because of this.
aristotelian
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by aristotelian »

We talked to our insurance agent after a similar incident involving our dog. We were advised that we would be covered but if we filed a claim we would be required to get rid of the dog or risk terminating our future coverage. Those alternatives were not acceptable so we retained an attorney who drafted a settlement that was more than fair (in this case, only damage was a doctor visit with no medical costs).
MrCheapo
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by MrCheapo »

asnlc wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:08 pm Located in California - I think the statute of limitations is 2 years for personal injury suits. ... This is an unfortunate incident for both parties.
California has a dog bite statute which is very strict. You are required to make the victim whole.

Your comment that it being an unfortunate incident for both of you will not sit well with the victim who was bitten. I'd stay away form that type of language, once those lawyers get a whole of this case it will get ugly.
lostdog
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by lostdog »

asnlc wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:45 pm
H-Town wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:34 pm
asnlc wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:08 pm Hoping to get some advice from the BH crew. I was walking a family member's dog and he bit someone. I don't know how bad things might be get from a medical standpoint and whether or not we'll be sued, but should we contact our insurance now or wait until medical bills and/or a lawsuit presents itself? Located in California - I think the statute of limitations is 2 years for personal injury suits. Don't want premiums to go up in case nothing ever materializes out of this, yet want to be protected financially. I have homeowners as well as an umbrella policy. Any advice would be appreciated. This is an unfortunate incident for both parties.
Sorry to hear that. I think in addition to contacting homeowner insurance, you should keep in touch with the guy who got bit. A civil lawsuit could very well happen, so make sure you have legal counsel.

It's very unfortunate. Did you keep a leash on the dog? It could play a factor in the civil case.
Spoke with the guy and we're staying in touch. Yes, the dog was on a leash - guy walked past and dog jumped. First time anything like this has happened, from a dog and also any type of liability standpoint. A bit nervous of the unknowns and with a 2 year cap on statute of limitations on personal injury lawsuits, that could be quite the cloud hanging. I do hope we'll know more and square things away sooner than later.
I can tell you're stressing.

Your insurance company will have your back.

Everything will work out. :beer
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asnlc
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by asnlc »

lostdog wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:36 pm
asnlc wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:45 pm
H-Town wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:34 pm
asnlc wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:08 pm Hoping to get some advice from the BH crew. I was walking a family member's dog and he bit someone. I don't know how bad things might be get from a medical standpoint and whether or not we'll be sued, but should we contact our insurance now or wait until medical bills and/or a lawsuit presents itself? Located in California - I think the statute of limitations is 2 years for personal injury suits. Don't want premiums to go up in case nothing ever materializes out of this, yet want to be protected financially. I have homeowners as well as an umbrella policy. Any advice would be appreciated. This is an unfortunate incident for both parties.
Sorry to hear that. I think in addition to contacting homeowner insurance, you should keep in touch with the guy who got bit. A civil lawsuit could very well happen, so make sure you have legal counsel.

It's very unfortunate. Did you keep a leash on the dog? It could play a factor in the civil case.
Spoke with the guy and we're staying in touch. Yes, the dog was on a leash - guy walked past and dog jumped. First time anything like this has happened, from a dog and also any type of liability standpoint. A bit nervous of the unknowns and with a 2 year cap on statute of limitations on personal injury lawsuits, that could be quite the cloud hanging. I do hope we'll know more and square things away sooner than later.
I can tell you're stressing.

Your insurance company will have your back.

Everything will work out. :beer
Your handle is a pretty good description of me right now....and thank you.
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mrspock
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by mrspock »

Aside… I foster a lot of dogs with bad habits, rehabbing them so they can be adopted. To prevent this stuff in the future it’s important bite pressure train dogs. For large breeds this must be done as a puppy for obvious reasons.

You basically need to stick your hand in their mouth and train them human skin is never to be bitten… or even in their mouth. You basically train them by offering your hand (under blanket at first to prevent skin breaking), if they put any pressure you “yelp” in a high pitched “ow!” and praise/reward them when they release the hand. Eventually they should not want to ever put their mouth on your hand or human skin — you praise HUGE in these cases (as soon as they turn their head away from the hand) to massively re-enforce the behavior. You periodically test them (few times per week) to ensure the training sticks.

This is some of the first training I give any dog. Even smaller adult dogs. They learn quickly, and it is probably training that can save their life (because they won’t be at risk of being put down)… they just don’t know any better unless you teach them.

I’ve done this with Pitbulls, Labs … Chihuahua mixes you name it. The bigger the dog, the more critical it is to do early.
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F150HD
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by F150HD »

hypothetical link to all the 'why do I need an umbrella' threads....
valleyrock
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by valleyrock »

HomeStretch wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:39 am
valleyrock wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:54 am What sort of injury would result just from a dog's jumping?…
In a family’s case, a very large unleashed dog ran out from a yard and jumped on a family member (in good health but older) who was walking on a public sidewalk. The dog knocked the family member down breaking the person’s hip. The family member contracted pneumonia while recovering in a rehab facility and died.

I was across the street (no sidewalk) from a house when the homeowner opened the door and two very large dogs ran out and made a beeline for me. One was behind my legs and the other came up in front of me and leapt up placing paws on my chest. The force was enough to knock me back and over the dog behind me. Bruising and a head bump from head hitting pavement but luckily no serious injuries.
Of course, getting knocked down is an assault (IANAL). Any unwanted touching is assault, if it involves people, so it's got to be similar for a dog, making the owner responsible.

I was wondering about just getting jumped at with no touching. But as others have noted, that could certainly be distressing in itself for people with various conditions or other factors.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by JoeRetire »

valleyrock wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:04 am Of course, getting knocked down is an assault (IANAL). Any unwanted touching is assault, if it involves people, so it's got to be similar for a dog, making the owner responsible.
That's not assault. It's an animal attack.

But yes, the owner is responsible.
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RTF
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by RTF »

OP, Have you reached out yet and offered to pay all medical expenses yet? Other than being the right thing to do, it might go a long way in making this situation get resolved much faster.
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by cashboy »

OP,

I know someone who went through something like this (long story).

as far as lessons learned for them, it came down to this:

In the end any claims (medical) were made against the insurance company and they paid.

and, all the worrying in the world changed nothing for them.


for now, ensure that nothing else happens with that dog and other people. things may turn out OK.
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valleyrock
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by valleyrock »

I called my insurance company (Amica) to say I have a dog. They said it doesn't matter, no need to tell them, regardless of breed, etc.

I did ask about what to do if my dog bites someone. They said no need to let them know unless there's a claim. I should try to work it out on my own. I said something about keeping my dog on a leash, and the representative said they recommend training for a dog that needs it. Then I said something about using a tranquilizer gun, and she said she didn't find that funny, so I said thanks and goodbye.
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by tibbitts »

valleyrock wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:01 pm I called my insurance company (Amica) to say I have a dog. They said it doesn't matter, no need to tell them, regardless of breed, etc.

I did ask about what to do if my dog bites someone. They said no need to let them know unless there's a claim. I should try to work it out on my own. I said something about keeping my dog on a leash, and the representative said they recommend training for a dog that needs it. Then I said something about using a tranquilizer gun, and she said she didn't find that funny, so I said thanks and goodbye.
I believe some insurance companies would care whether and what type of dog you had, so I wouldn't try to generalize from the reaction to reporting the dog that you got. I don't understand the comment about a tranquilizer gun either.
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by Lee_WSP »

valleyrock wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:04 am
HomeStretch wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:39 am
valleyrock wrote: Thu Sep 16, 2021 5:54 am What sort of injury would result just from a dog's jumping?…
In a family’s case, a very large unleashed dog ran out from a yard and jumped on a family member (in good health but older) who was walking on a public sidewalk. The dog knocked the family member down breaking the person’s hip. The family member contracted pneumonia while recovering in a rehab facility and died.

I was across the street (no sidewalk) from a house when the homeowner opened the door and two very large dogs ran out and made a beeline for me. One was behind my legs and the other came up in front of me and leapt up placing paws on my chest. The force was enough to knock me back and over the dog behind me. Bruising and a head bump from head hitting pavement but luckily no serious injuries.
Of course, getting knocked down is an assault (IANAL). Any unwanted touching is assault, if it involves people, so it's got to be similar for a dog, making the owner responsible.

I was wondering about just getting jumped at with no touching. But as others have noted, that could certainly be distressing in itself for people with various conditions or other factors.
An assault typically requires a mens rea. Ie you need to intend to do the action. Unless you directed the dog, there is no intent. It is however, extremely negligent.
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by Jeepergeo »

Jeeze...why buy insurance and then shy away from notifying them of a potential legitimate claim? And worrying about it while doing so.

Notify the insurance company....it is likely the policy requires it (this is a good time to read the policy). Let the insurance company deal 100% with the injured party.
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by Mr. Rumples »

I don't know what else the OP can do. There is no way to anticipate what the injured party will do. Back in the 1980's I was taking a shortcut through an alley and was attacked by two dogs. Stunned, I froze while a jogger seeing it, beat the dogs off with a stick. It was nerve racking to wait to see if Animal Control could find the dogs. Rabies shots were to start when a mailman identified the dogs and the home. In the end, I was so happy that the dogs were not rabid - though they were not vaccinated - I just forgot about the entire thing and did not press the owners. My expenses were the pants and the visit to my physician to clean the wounds.

The only possible caveat is PTSD...it literally took decades to get over my fear of dogs after that...dogs could sense my fear. I really did not get a handle on it until just a few years ago when my niece got a Rhodesian Ridgeback (one the sweetest, goofiest, most uncoordinated dogs - 80 lb. - on the planet).

Regarding the earlier post of how attorneys find out; if dog bite reports are public, my guess is they most likely are looking at them.
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valleyrock
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Re: Dog bit someone - contact insurance now or wait?

Post by valleyrock »

Just revisiting. If I were the dog owner, I'd apologize as soon as possible and ask how I can help...with medical expenses, a ride to the emergency room (if blood is flowing, etc.), new pants, whatever. It gets down to doing the right thing. As noted above, sometimes doing such things leads to the person being bit just taking it in stride and not being litigious, especially if injuries are minor. In all events, it's a matter of taking responsibility, which helps a person sleep better, knowing one has done the best they can. Having an umbrella policy doesn't hurt either, of course.
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