How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

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Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:05 am
CobraKai wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:03 am I countered and asked for 10K more (4k above current salary) thinking that we would be willing to meet in the middle but they turned me down.

Oh well. Back to square one.
It is not square one.

In the process of knowing what does not work. you had learned something. It would be easier to do the next one.

KlangFool
Yeah but the chances of finding anything else so close to home is slim to none (with the exception of a remote position).
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

il0kin wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:23 am
CobraKai wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:03 am I countered and asked for 10K more (4k above current salary) thinking that we would be willing to meet in the middle but they turned me down.

Oh well. Back to square one.
I know a number of people in the SQL world who have taken remote positions for better pay in the past few months. You can get what you want! Open your job search to remote positions and start working with some recruiters. You can do this!
It's worth a shot. It's not like this salary that I was being offered (or my current salary) is/was all that great anyway. I normally try to avoid recruiters and talk to companies directly lol. You'd recommend reaching out to recruiters in the nearest big cities?
Afty
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by Afty »

CobraKai wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:03 am I countered and asked for 10K more (4k above current salary) thinking that we would be willing to meet in the middle but they turned me down.

Oh well. Back to square one.
Don't worry about it, you dodged a bullet given all your concerns about the job + the fact that they would let you go over $10k. Now you have some experience interviewing and negotiating and you can go after a better job.
KlangFool
Posts: 31525
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by KlangFool »

CobraKai wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:24 am
KlangFool wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:05 am
CobraKai wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:03 am I countered and asked for 10K more (4k above current salary) thinking that we would be willing to meet in the middle but they turned me down.

Oh well. Back to square one.
It is not square one.

In the process of knowing what does not work. you had learned something. It would be easier to do the next one.

KlangFool
Yeah but the chances of finding anything else so close to home is slim to none (with the exception of a remote position).
Stop defeating yourself.

How could you find something if you do not believe that it exists?

Think differently instead.

Choose this instead.

If this job exists, how can I find it?

Change your attitude!

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

Afty wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:28 am
CobraKai wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:03 am I countered and asked for 10K more (4k above current salary) thinking that we would be willing to meet in the middle but they turned me down.

Oh well. Back to square one.
Don't worry about it, you dodged a bullet given all your concerns about the job + the fact that they would let you go over $10k. Now you have some experience interviewing and negotiating and you can go after a better job.
Yeah, thanks. And thanks to all who contributed in the thread. As much as I would have loved ditching the commute, too many deal breakers and potential issues. Oh well.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

KlangFool wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:38 am Stop defeating yourself.

How could you find something if you do not believe that it exists?

Think differently instead.

Choose this instead.

If this job exists, how can I find it?

Change your attitude!

KlangFool
I have been looking for years in my local area. I will try finding a remote gig, otherwise perhaps it is time to consider moving.
il0kin
Posts: 465
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by il0kin »

CobraKai wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:27 am
il0kin wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:23 am
CobraKai wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:03 am I countered and asked for 10K more (4k above current salary) thinking that we would be willing to meet in the middle but they turned me down.

Oh well. Back to square one.
I know a number of people in the SQL world who have taken remote positions for better pay in the past few months. You can get what you want! Open your job search to remote positions and start working with some recruiters. You can do this!
It's worth a shot. It's not like this salary that I was being offered (or my current salary) is/was all that great anyway. I normally try to avoid recruiters and talk to companies directly lol. You'd recommend reaching out to recruiters in the nearest big cities?
There is no real reason to worry about the near big cities… I work for a company 1000 miles away in another time zone.

I’ve never dealt with recruiters (always found my own jobs) but some folks find them very useful, just don’t let them pressure you into a job you aren’t sold on.
Mr-et-Mrs-R
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by Mr-et-Mrs-R »

Personally I think you dodged a bullet, so congratulations! :sharebeer

One of my methods for job hunting is to open Google Maps and start looking at who is in the various office building near by and then see what openings they have.

Since databases do rule the world, I am willing to bet a beer that your skills are in more demand than you realize.
Medical facilities, insurance companies, legal firms, logistics, etc. are all looking for SQL developers / DBAs.

Or to put it in another way:

Code: Select all

SELECT job_title, job_description, job_salary, company_name, company_address, remote_employment 
FROM Companies 
WHERE 1=1 AND
job_description LIKE ('%SQL%') and
remote_employment = 'Yes';
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

Mr-et-Mrs-R wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:14 am Personally I think you dodged a bullet, so congratulations! :sharebeer

One of my methods for job hunting is to open Google Maps and start looking at who is in the various office building near by and then see what openings they have.

Since databases do rule the world, I am willing to bet a beer that your skills are in more demand than you realize.
Medical facilities, insurance companies, legal firms, logistics, etc. are all looking for SQL developers / DBAs.

Or to put it in another way:

Code: Select all

SELECT job_title, job_description, job_salary, company_name, company_address, remote_employment 
FROM Companies 
WHERE 1=1 AND
job_description LIKE ('%SQL%') and
remote_employment = 'Yes';
Honestly I've had second thoughts. A couple of things happened at the current job that would have made me more likely to take this job if I knew they were going to happen.

Would it be inappropriate to ask if a job is still open a week or two after we were unable to come to terms?
KlangFool
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by KlangFool »

CobraKai wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:01 am
Mr-et-Mrs-R wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:14 am Personally I think you dodged a bullet, so congratulations! :sharebeer

One of my methods for job hunting is to open Google Maps and start looking at who is in the various office building near by and then see what openings they have.

Since databases do rule the world, I am willing to bet a beer that your skills are in more demand than you realize.
Medical facilities, insurance companies, legal firms, logistics, etc. are all looking for SQL developers / DBAs.

Or to put it in another way:

Code: Select all

SELECT job_title, job_description, job_salary, company_name, company_address, remote_employment 
FROM Companies 
WHERE 1=1 AND
job_description LIKE ('%SQL%') and
remote_employment = 'Yes';
Honestly I've had second thoughts. A couple of things happened at the current job that would have made me more likely to take this job if I knew they were going to happen.

Would it be inappropriate to ask if a job is still open a week or two after we were unable to come to terms?
In this case, my opinion is no. Trust your gut feeling. This does not look like a good fit.

KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

KlangFool wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:17 am
CobraKai wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:01 am
Mr-et-Mrs-R wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:14 am Personally I think you dodged a bullet, so congratulations! :sharebeer

One of my methods for job hunting is to open Google Maps and start looking at who is in the various office building near by and then see what openings they have.

Since databases do rule the world, I am willing to bet a beer that your skills are in more demand than you realize.
Medical facilities, insurance companies, legal firms, logistics, etc. are all looking for SQL developers / DBAs.

Or to put it in another way:

Code: Select all

SELECT job_title, job_description, job_salary, company_name, company_address, remote_employment 
FROM Companies 
WHERE 1=1 AND
job_description LIKE ('%SQL%') and
remote_employment = 'Yes';
Honestly I've had second thoughts. A couple of things happened at the current job that would have made me more likely to take this job if I knew they were going to happen.

Would it be inappropriate to ask if a job is still open a week or two after we were unable to come to terms?
In this case, my opinion is no. Trust your gut feeling. This does not look like a good fit.

KlangFool
I guess I'm letting that short commute cloud my judgment. Even if this job were to be better than current job, it may not be as good as something else I could possibly find (especially if it's remote). Back to sending out resumes.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

After blowing my tire the other night, I began to regret not taking this job. I had to re-read this thread to refresh my memory.

With that being said, I did notice this employer had another related job posted last week so I inquired about it. I wrote the HR guy an email last week and he did not get back to me. I guess they were either offended that I turned down their last offer.

Some of the duties of this job were part of the other job they offered. I suspect that they were trying to get me to do two jobs for the price of one, and this job could very well pay less than the last one.

Anyway, I have thought about reaching out to the hiring manager but probably better to let it go.
adestefan
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by adestefan »

Let it go.

Talk to a recruiter about remote work. Put your resume on LinkedIn and you’ll probably get people flooding into your mailbox.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

adestefan wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:29 am Let it go.

Talk to a recruiter about remote work. Put your resume on LinkedIn and you’ll probably get people flooding into your mailbox.
Look up a recruiter in the nearest big city?

Would you say LinkedIn is a "must" these days? I'm not on LinkedIn nor have I ever been.
jmw
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by jmw »

Let it go. Sing the song from "Frozen" many times if you need.

Most of us here on BH would have taken a hard pass on this without thinking much about it. Too many super bright red flags on this one.

You should try a lot harder to get a remote position that pays the same or better. Since covid and the Great Resignation, no more need to take less salary just because it is remote.
stoptothink
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by stoptothink »

CobraKai wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:56 pmWould you say LinkedIn is a "must" these days? I'm not on LinkedIn nor have I ever been.
It certainly can't hurt. When we get a decent resume, one of the first things we do is look at their LinkedIn profile. My wife just switched jobs, she had 3 offers and her former employer tried to throw her a new job title and raise to keep her; two of the offers came directly from LinkedIn.
coldaudio
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by coldaudio »

I'll advocate for you using a recruiter. I've hired many great, talented people through one. Remember, it's no extra burden on you to use one. They hustle, find you a position, and get paid by your future employer. Often times, for a full-time position, they don't get paid until you've worked there for 90 days, so it really is in their best interest to find something that is a good fit for you.
hoofaman
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by hoofaman »

Plenty of remote gigs out there for IT roles of all skill levels, no need to commute anywhere. As others mentioned, Linkedin is a good job search tool for IT related roles, set your location to "United States" and just search for the type of role your interested in
Afty
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by Afty »

I think LinkedIn is a must these days, especially for people in tech. It’s the modern version of a resume. I got my current position because someone in my network reached out via LinkedIn. Maybe they would have contacted me a different way if I wasn’t on LinkedIn, or maybe they wouldn’t have thought of me for the position, who knows.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

jmw wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:36 pm Let it go. Sing the song from "Frozen" many times if you need.

Most of us here on BH would have taken a hard pass on this without thinking much about it. Too many super bright red flags on this one.
Yep. You are right as was my decision to turn them down. I didn't actually turn them down but gave them my counter and it was too much for them.
jmw wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:36 pmYou should try a lot harder to get a remote position that pays the same or better. Since covid and the Great Resignation, no more need to take less salary just because it is remote.
I will try although it seems easier said than done.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

stoptothink wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:40 pm It certainly can't hurt. When we get a decent resume, one of the first things we do is look at their LinkedIn profile. My wife just switched jobs, she had 3 offers and her former employer tried to throw her a new job title and raise to keep her; two of the offers came directly from LinkedIn.
Afty wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:33 pm I think LinkedIn is a must these days, especially for people in tech. It’s the modern version of a resume. I got my current position because someone in my network reached out via LinkedIn. Maybe they would have contacted me a different way if I wasn’t on LinkedIn, or maybe they wouldn’t have thought of me for the position, who knows.
Can you lock it down and restrict who sees it, or is all of the information open to the public?
Last edited by CobraKai on Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

coldaudio wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:45 pm I'll advocate for you using a recruiter. I've hired many great, talented people through one. Remember, it's no extra burden on you to use one. They hustle, find you a position, and get paid by your future employer. Often times, for a full-time position, they don't get paid until you've worked there for 90 days, so it really is in their best interest to find something that is a good fit for you.
I haven't dealt with recruiters since my first job (in which I was brought in by a recruiter). I will definitely look into, although I'm in an area where there aren't too many tech jobs so I'll probably need to branch out to a recruiter in a larger city.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

hoofaman wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:49 pm Plenty of remote gigs out there for IT roles of all skill levels, no need to commute anywhere. As others mentioned, Linkedin is a good job search tool for IT related roles, set your location to "United States" and just search for the type of role your interested in
That's good to know. I must be doing something wrong then lol as my employer is not even open to letting us commute one day per week! There has been talk about it for years but it's never happened.
stoptothink
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by stoptothink »

CobraKai wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:48 pm
stoptothink wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:40 pm It certainly can't hurt. When we get a decent resume, one of the first things we do is look at their LinkedIn profile. My wife just switched jobs, she had 3 offers and her former employer tried to throw her a new job title and raise to keep her; two of the offers came directly from LinkedIn.
Afty wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:33 pm I think LinkedIn is a must these days, especially for people in tech. It’s the modern version of a resume. I got my current position because someone in my network reached out via LinkedIn. Maybe they would have contacted me a different way if I wasn’t on LinkedIn, or maybe they wouldn’t have thought of me for the position, who knows.
Can you lock it down and restrict who sees it, or is all of the information open to the public?
Using profile settings you can edit who can and can't see it.
sureshoe
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by sureshoe »

CobraKai wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:48 pm
stoptothink wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:40 pm It certainly can't hurt. When we get a decent resume, one of the first things we do is look at their LinkedIn profile. My wife just switched jobs, she had 3 offers and her former employer tried to throw her a new job title and raise to keep her; two of the offers came directly from LinkedIn.
Afty wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:33 pm I think LinkedIn is a must these days, especially for people in tech. It’s the modern version of a resume. I got my current position because someone in my network reached out via LinkedIn. Maybe they would have contacted me a different way if I wasn’t on LinkedIn, or maybe they wouldn’t have thought of me for the position, who knows.
Can you lock it down and restrict who sees it, or is all of the information open to the public?
Don't overthink the LinkedIn stuff. Put your profile on there, make it public - there is no reason to restrict it. I have lots of people who work for me and in my organization on there, we don't put a second thought to it. Make sure it doesn't have typos, but it doesn't have to be exhaustive or a replica of your resume. List your pertinent skills. Build up a network of people by asking people you work with to connect and others will reach out.

For midrange tech people, most people aren't inspecting their LinkedIn. This is just to get recruiters calling.

There is a button on LinkedIn to say "I'm open to new job positions" that cause you to show up in the recruiter more. You can decide whether or not to flip that. They try to prevent you from appearing in your current job's recruiter's inbox, but they can't guarantee it. Even if you don't flip that switch, people will reach out to you probably, just less.

I probably wrote this in the previous 4 pages, but if you have mediocre-to-good tech skills and want something different, you should be able to find it unless you're asking for an exorbitant salary or are a really bad interview (and that can be worked on).
sureshoe
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by sureshoe »

CobraKai wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:51 pm
hoofaman wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:49 pm Plenty of remote gigs out there for IT roles of all skill levels, no need to commute anywhere. As others mentioned, Linkedin is a good job search tool for IT related roles, set your location to "United States" and just search for the type of role your interested in
That's good to know. I must be doing something wrong then lol as my employer is not even open to letting us commute one day per week! There has been talk about it for years but it's never happened.
Some places are just old school. My wife's company literally just mandated a centralization. So she's took a severance.

It's stupid and it's old school and the company fills up with people who simply can't do any better.
bugleheadd
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by bugleheadd »

if job options are limited, then maybe i would take a pay cut. Otherwise i would seek a pay bump of at least 15% for a new job
ROIGuy
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by ROIGuy »

The bad management reviews are a huge red flag. If you add in the perspective money save traveling versus decreased income is a wash, so all you're really getting is bad management to report too. Have you ever had a really bad boss? Think how it made you feel!
dsmil
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by dsmil »

This is an interesting thread for me as I'm in a similar situation. I've been at my company for 8 years, I'm valued and they pay me very well, I get 26 days off per year, it's low stress, and I work exactly 8 hours per day (includes lunch). The negatives are that the commute is 45 min-1 hr, no one works remotely, I don't learn much, and I don't foresee any large pay increases coming until my boss retires, which will be awhile. With a family to support and this job being good enough, I haven't really pursued anything closer to home. I also work in a higher paying area (metro dc) than where I live, so the pay ceiling would most likely be a bit lower, even if I can make a move to a job which initially matches my current pay.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

sureshoe wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:59 am Don't overthink the LinkedIn stuff. Put your profile on there, make it public - there is no reason to restrict it. I have lots of people who work for me and in my organization on there, we don't put a second thought to it. Make sure it doesn't have typos, but it doesn't have to be exhaustive or a replica of your resume. List your pertinent skills. Build up a network of people by asking people you work with to connect and others will reach out.
You don't think it would raise any eyebrows if I were to suddenly post on LinkedIn after all these years? It wouldn't raise any suspicion that I could be looking?
sureshoe wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:59 amFor midrange tech people, most people aren't inspecting their LinkedIn. This is just to get recruiters calling.

There is a button on LinkedIn to say "I'm open to new job positions" that cause you to show up in the recruiter more. You can decide whether or not to flip that. They try to prevent you from appearing in your current job's recruiter's inbox, but they can't guarantee it. Even if you don't flip that switch, people will reach out to you probably, just less.

I probably wrote this in the previous 4 pages, but if you have mediocre-to-good tech skills and want something different, you should be able to find it unless you're asking for an exorbitant salary or are a really bad interview (and that can be worked on).
Thanks for the info.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

sureshoe wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:01 am Some places are just old school. My wife's company literally just mandated a centralization. So she's took a severance.

It's stupid and it's old school and the company fills up with people who simply can't do any better.
And then my employer wonders why they are not able to attract new talent. They are not paying enough (the last few offers were rejected o nthat alone) but they are also not open to telecommuting. Crazy.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

Mr.BB wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:26 am The bad management reviews are a huge red flag. If you add in the perspective money save traveling versus decreased income is a wash, so all you're really getting is bad management to report too. Have you ever had a really bad boss? Think how it made you feel!
Yep I've had a really bad boss and trying to do what I can to avoid reporting to one again.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

dsmil wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:55 am This is an interesting thread for me as I'm in a similar situation. I've been at my company for 8 years, I'm valued and they pay me very well, I get 26 days off per year, it's low stress, and I work exactly 8 hours per day (includes lunch). The negatives are that the commute is 45 min-1 hr, no one works remotely, I don't learn much, and I don't foresee any large pay increases coming until my boss retires, which will be awhile. With a family to support and this job being good enough, I haven't really pursued anything closer to home. I also work in a higher paying area (metro dc) than where I live, so the pay ceiling would most likely be a bit lower, even if I can make a move to a job which initially matches my current pay.
Your situation is definitely similar! Difficult to leave a stable position you're comfortable in, even if with those drawbacks. I don't know why I've become so resistant to change. I wasn't like that early in my career.
sureshoe
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by sureshoe »

CobraKai wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:25 am
sureshoe wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:59 am Don't overthink the LinkedIn stuff. Put your profile on there, make it public - there is no reason to restrict it. I have lots of people who work for me and in my organization on there, we don't put a second thought to it. Make sure it doesn't have typos, but it doesn't have to be exhaustive or a replica of your resume. List your pertinent skills. Build up a network of people by asking people you work with to connect and others will reach out.
First, I doubt your current employer is scanning LinkedIn checking for current employees creating profiles. This will more than likely fly under their radar.

Second, IF they notice it, maybe they think, "hmm", but I'm guessing they don't put much more thought into it.

Lastly, and most important, who cares if they think you're open to new jobs? I assume everyone in my org is open to a better offer. It's my job to keep them engaged, not have them pass loyalty tests. I'm not suggesting you FLAUNT it and be a rude jerk, but in an industry where you have pricing power, use it. If you were the only librarian in Topeka, I might have different advice.
Topic Author
CobraKai
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

sureshoe wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:21 pm First, I doubt your current employer is scanning LinkedIn checking for current employees creating profiles. This will more than likely fly under their radar.

Second, IF they notice it, maybe they think, "hmm", but I'm guessing they don't put much more thought into it.

Lastly, and most important, who cares if they think you're open to new jobs? I assume everyone in my org is open to a better offer. It's my job to keep them engaged, not have them pass loyalty tests. I'm not suggesting you FLAUNT it and be a rude jerk, but in an industry where you have pricing power, use it. If you were the only librarian in Topeka, I might have different advice.
I doubt they are scanning but the last time I went to create a LinkedIn account, the first name that popped up was my boss's name. If he logs in, he'll likely see my name for the first time. This is a department that barely has enough people to keep things running, due to departures that have taken place in recent months. So you're saying that if he's paranoid I might be leaving, that could be a good thing?
skierincolorado
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by skierincolorado »

CobraKai wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:14 pm
sureshoe wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:21 pm First, I doubt your current employer is scanning LinkedIn checking for current employees creating profiles. This will more than likely fly under their radar.

Second, IF they notice it, maybe they think, "hmm", but I'm guessing they don't put much more thought into it.

Lastly, and most important, who cares if they think you're open to new jobs? I assume everyone in my org is open to a better offer. It's my job to keep them engaged, not have them pass loyalty tests. I'm not suggesting you FLAUNT it and be a rude jerk, but in an industry where you have pricing power, use it. If you were the only librarian in Topeka, I might have different advice.
I doubt they are scanning but the last time I went to create a LinkedIn account, the first name that popped up was my boss's name. If he logs in, he'll likely see my name for the first time. This is a department that barely has enough people to keep things running, due to departures that have taken place in recent months. So you're saying that if he's paranoid I might be leaving, that could be a good thing?
OF course it's a good thing. I'm in tech and straight up told my manager I was thinking of leaving and looking at jobs. Surprise surpise 15% raise 1 month later. Never hurts to show up in a suit to a meeting one day, although suits aren't a thing for most interviews in tech.
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by skierincolorado »

CobraKai wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:03 am I countered and asked for 10K more (4k above current salary) thinking that we would be willing to meet in the middle but they turned me down.

Oh well. Back to square one.
Huge red flag. Loss of PTO and loss of salary and not willing to negotiate at an "old school" company with old tech.. I HATE commutes but this would be a hard no. It's difficult to switch jobs. When you switch (which you absolutely must) it should be for the right one. When I first started reading this thread, I was thinking you should switch, but you made the right call.
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by sureshoe »

CobraKai wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:14 pm
sureshoe wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:21 pm First, I doubt your current employer is scanning LinkedIn checking for current employees creating profiles. This will more than likely fly under their radar.

Second, IF they notice it, maybe they think, "hmm", but I'm guessing they don't put much more thought into it.

Lastly, and most important, who cares if they think you're open to new jobs? I assume everyone in my org is open to a better offer. It's my job to keep them engaged, not have them pass loyalty tests. I'm not suggesting you FLAUNT it and be a rude jerk, but in an industry where you have pricing power, use it. If you were the only librarian in Topeka, I might have different advice.
I doubt they are scanning but the last time I went to create a LinkedIn account, the first name that popped up was my boss's name. If he logs in, he'll likely see my name for the first time. This is a department that barely has enough people to keep things running, due to departures that have taken place in recent months. So you're saying that if he's paranoid I might be leaving, that could be a good thing?
I don't know your specific situation, so I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush. I'm assuming you're in the 35-45 age range, but I can't get a grasp on your salary range and how replaceable it is. By "replaceable" I mean all the factors that go into your ability/willingness to go to a new role (things like your competency and willingness to quit).

For example , if you're a DBA in California making $100k, it's replaceable in 5 seconds by even the least competent people, assuming you don't eat glue in the interview. If you're a DBA in Ohio with deep skills and making $150k/year, it's going to be a bit more work to find that. The first step is to know your job market.

Also, I don't know how much of a tyrant your current boss is or if he/she would feel betrayed and create a bad work environment.

Sooo.... my very long point is this: In general, it's fine for your employer to know you're looking, just don't flaunt it or be rude. However, if you're making more than you can replace for a boss who might retaliate, my advice would change. But if I'm in the latter situation, I would be more focused on fixing it.

If your boss said to you, "Hey I saw you created a LinkedIn profile", a simple polite response is, "yeah, I had been meaning to do it for a while to keep up with friends and colleagues." I think it really ends there, but if you get pressed on "are you looking", etc. a simple answer is, "I really like this job, and I have no intention of leaving. I wish I had remote working options or a little more compensation (insert desires here). But, I understand those things are hard inside this organization." Then your boss can decide if they care whether you stay or leave - because any boss who isn't an idiot will hear "I'm looking".
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

skierincolorado wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:46 pm
CobraKai wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:03 amI doubt they are scanning but the last time I went to create a LinkedIn account, the first name that popped up was my boss's name. If he logs in, he'll likely see my name for the first time. This is a department that barely has enough people to keep things running, due to departures that have taken place in recent months. So you're saying that if he's paranoid I might be leaving, that could be a good thing?
OF course it's a good thing. I'm in tech and straight up told my manager I was thinking of leaving and looking at jobs. Surprise surpise 15% raise 1 month later. Never hurts to show up in a suit to a meeting one day, although suits aren't a thing for most interviews in tech.
Ha! Are you in a market where there are a lot of tech jobs?
skierincolorado wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:51 pm
CobraKai wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:03 am I countered and asked for 10K more (4k above current salary) thinking that we would be willing to meet in the middle but they turned me down.

Oh well. Back to square one.
Huge red flag. Loss of PTO and loss of salary and not willing to negotiate at an "old school" company with old tech.. I HATE commutes but this would be a hard no. It's difficult to switch jobs. When you switch (which you absolutely must) it should be for the right one. When I first started reading this thread, I was thinking you should switch, but you made the right call.
Yeah, this was the correct decision. After getting the flat tire and thinking "I'm sick of commuting and should have taken that job", I had to refer refresh my memory on the issues that caused me to turn down the job to begin with.
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

sureshoe wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:49 am I don't know your specific situation, so I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush. I'm assuming you're in the 35-45 age range, but I can't get a grasp on your salary range and how replaceable it is.
You are correct on the age range.
sureshoe wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:49 am ​By "replaceable" I mean all the factors that go into your ability/willingness to go to a new role (things like your competency and willingness to quit).

For example , if you're a DBA in California making $100k, it's replaceable in 5 seconds by even the least competent people, assuming you don't eat glue in the interview. If you're a DBA in Ohio with deep skills and making $150k/year, it's going to be a bit more work to find that. The first step is to know your job market.
I'm in the midwest and closer to your Ohio situation but with a MUCH lower salary. Also I am in a more generalized position and looking to specialize as a DBA.
sureshoe wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:49 amAlso, I don't know how much of a tyrant your current boss is or if he/she would feel betrayed and create a bad work environment.
I don't think he's like that but his bosses are.
sureshoe wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:49 amSooo.... my very long point is this: In general, it's fine for your employer to know you're looking, just don't flaunt it or be rude. However, if you're making more than you can replace for a boss who might retaliate, my advice would change. But if I'm in the latter situation, I would be more focused on fixing it.

If your boss said to you, "Hey I saw you created a LinkedIn profile", a simple polite response is, "yeah, I had been meaning to do it for a while to keep up with friends and colleagues." I think it really ends there, but if you get pressed on "are you looking", etc. a simple answer is, "I really like this job, and I have no intention of leaving. I wish I had remote working options or a little more compensation (insert desires here). But, I understand those things are hard inside this organization." Then your boss can decide if they care whether you stay or leave - because any boss who isn't an idiot will hear "I'm looking".
That sounds like a good explanation. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

skierincolorado wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:46 pm
CobraKai wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:14 pm I doubt they are scanning but the last time I went to create a LinkedIn account, the first name that popped up was my boss's name. If he logs in, he'll likely see my name for the first time. This is a department that barely has enough people to keep things running, due to departures that have taken place in recent months. So you're saying that if he's paranoid I might be leaving, that could be a good thing?
OF course it's a good thing. I'm in tech and straight up told my manager I was thinking of leaving and looking at jobs. Surprise surpise 15% raise 1 month later. Never hurts to show up in a suit to a meeting one day, although suits aren't a thing for most interviews in tech.
On this note, there are a couple of openings with vendors that my company do business with that I would likely be a good fit for. The problem is that word may get back to my boss and/or others who work at my location. I should just apply anyway, eh?
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

Here's one thing about LinkedIn that could be an issue if I posted my work history. I have been leaving my first job off of my resume. If I'm to be honest, it's an attempt to "hide" my age. If I were to go on LinkedIn, should I leave that job off? I suspect that could be an issue if someone from that position would try and connect with me.

BTW I noticed that a hiring manager at a place I recently interviewed used his first name and last initial (instead of his full last name). Just thought that was interesting.
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by sureshoe »

CobraKai wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:46 am
skierincolorado wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:46 pm
CobraKai wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:14 pm I doubt they are scanning but the last time I went to create a LinkedIn account, the first name that popped up was my boss's name. If he logs in, he'll likely see my name for the first time. This is a department that barely has enough people to keep things running, due to departures that have taken place in recent months. So you're saying that if he's paranoid I might be leaving, that could be a good thing?
OF course it's a good thing. I'm in tech and straight up told my manager I was thinking of leaving and looking at jobs. Surprise surpise 15% raise 1 month later. Never hurts to show up in a suit to a meeting one day, although suits aren't a thing for most interviews in tech.
On this note, there are a couple of openings with vendors that my company do business with that I would likely be a good fit for. The problem is that word may get back to my boss and/or others who work at my location. I should just apply anyway, eh?
I would never hire someone from a customer. I've had a couple apply in the past. You can apply, but if I was the vendor, I wouldn't consider your application unless I needed to hire more than I needed that customer.

Showing up in a suit to work would be flaunting it.

On your other question about LinkedIn - history past 10 years is OK to drop.
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

sureshoe wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:26 am
CobraKai wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:46 am
skierincolorado wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:46 pm
CobraKai wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:14 pm I doubt they are scanning but the last time I went to create a LinkedIn account, the first name that popped up was my boss's name. If he logs in, he'll likely see my name for the first time. This is a department that barely has enough people to keep things running, due to departures that have taken place in recent months. So you're saying that if he's paranoid I might be leaving, that could be a good thing?
OF course it's a good thing. I'm in tech and straight up told my manager I was thinking of leaving and looking at jobs. Surprise surpise 15% raise 1 month later. Never hurts to show up in a suit to a meeting one day, although suits aren't a thing for most interviews in tech.
On this note, there are a couple of openings with vendors that my company do business with that I would likely be a good fit for. The problem is that word may get back to my boss and/or others who work at my location. I should just apply anyway, eh?
I would never hire someone from a customer. I've had a couple apply in the past. You can apply, but if I was the vendor, I wouldn't consider your application unless I needed to hire more than I needed that customer.

Showing up in a suit to work would be flaunting it.

On your other question about LinkedIn - history past 10 years is OK to drop.
They definitely wouldn't choose me over their customer. No way. I think that I'll just forget about it.

If I only kept history within the last 10 years, I'd only have one job posted. :) I am not convinced LinkedIn is for me but haven't ruled it out. A few people that used to be on LinkedIn have warned me that it is a "spammer site".
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by KlangFool »

CobraKai wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:46 am
skierincolorado wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:46 pm
CobraKai wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:14 pm I doubt they are scanning but the last time I went to create a LinkedIn account, the first name that popped up was my boss's name. If he logs in, he'll likely see my name for the first time. This is a department that barely has enough people to keep things running, due to departures that have taken place in recent months. So you're saying that if he's paranoid I might be leaving, that could be a good thing?
OF course it's a good thing. I'm in tech and straight up told my manager I was thinking of leaving and looking at jobs. Surprise surpise 15% raise 1 month later. Never hurts to show up in a suit to a meeting one day, although suits aren't a thing for most interviews in tech.
On this note, there are a couple of openings with vendors that my company do business with that I would likely be a good fit for. The problem is that word may get back to my boss and/or others who work at my location. I should just apply anyway, eh?
CobraKai,

And, why is that a bad thing?

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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by Bogle101 »

Seems like a very easy stay to me.

The company is smaller, pays less and has bad online reviews. How many red flags do you need man?

With the way the world is changing you could easily ask your current employer for 1-2 days a week from home.

What is your current base and bonus?

I am always looking for salary data points to help me understand my own pay.
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

KlangFool wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:32 am
CobraKai wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:46 am
skierincolorado wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:46 pm
CobraKai wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:14 pm I doubt they are scanning but the last time I went to create a LinkedIn account, the first name that popped up was my boss's name. If he logs in, he'll likely see my name for the first time. This is a department that barely has enough people to keep things running, due to departures that have taken place in recent months. So you're saying that if he's paranoid I might be leaving, that could be a good thing?
OF course it's a good thing. I'm in tech and straight up told my manager I was thinking of leaving and looking at jobs. Surprise surpise 15% raise 1 month later. Never hurts to show up in a suit to a meeting one day, although suits aren't a thing for most interviews in tech.
On this note, there are a couple of openings with vendors that my company do business with that I would likely be a good fit for. The problem is that word may get back to my boss and/or others who work at my location. I should just apply anyway, eh?
CobraKai,

And, why is that a bad thing?

KlangFool
Under normal circumstances, it could very well be. They would think "flight risk" and begin looking for a replacement. It's similar to when a company offers one a counter offer. Sometimes they will try to retain the employee and then start looking for a replacement.

In this market, when they are having trouble attracting talented employees? Perhaps not so much.
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

Bogle101 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:33 am Seems like a very easy stay to me.

The company is smaller, pays less and has bad online reviews. How many red flags do you need man?
You're right. I had to re-read this thread to remind myself of these facts. When I drive past this place every day, on the way to and from work, I was thinking about how I could have eliminated this commute.
Bogle101 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:33 amWith the way the world is changing you could easily ask your current employer for 1-2 days a week from home.
They wouldn't do two. Maybe one when we are at a point where we are fully staffed again.
Bogle101 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:33 amWhat is your current base and bonus?

I am always looking for salary data points to help me understand my own pay.
I'd rather not share but am in a LCOL area so that number would be skewed anyway when comparing to other locations.
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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by KlangFool »

CobraKai wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:50 am
In this market, when they are having trouble attracting talented employees? Perhaps not so much.
CobraKai,

Isn't this the WHOLE POINT of your topic/thread? You want to work from home a few days per week instead of commuting every day to work. This is your leverage.

Letting the employer know that you are looking for alternative is a way to push them to let you have what you want.

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Re: How much of a pay cut is reasonable for a shorter commute?

Post by CobraKai »

KlangFool wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:17 pm CobraKai,

Isn't this the WHOLE POINT of your topic/thread? You want to work from home a few days per week instead of commuting every day to work. This is your leverage.

Letting the employer know that you are looking for alternative is a way to push them to let you have what you want.
I'd be happy with working from home just one day per week.

So you're saying to request it while I'm looking or wait until I have another offer? Some say never to accept a counter offer.
Last edited by CobraKai on Thu Oct 28, 2021 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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