Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

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psteinx
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Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by psteinx »

OK, I realize this is a super-duper long shot, but you never know...

I/we filed our fed and state (Missouri) returns back in April, including large expected refunds.

Have not received refunds yet, and perhaps it will be months more (given IRS backlogs).

If I knew back in April that refunds would take so long, I would have applied more of the refunds to estimated (forward) taxes, as, IIUC, you are credited with making those payments on ~April 15 of the year filed. Instead, I'll be making Q3 estimated payments in early September.

I presume there is no way to change this retroactively so that $X of the expected cash refund is instead diverted to the estimated payments? (I/we actually did this to an extent, but would, ideally, like to increase the share going to estimated taxes.)
bberris
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Re: Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by bberris »

psteinx wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:24 pm OK, I realize this is a super-duper long shot, but you never know...

I/we filed our fed and state (Missouri) returns back in April, including large expected refunds.

Have not received refunds yet, and perhaps it will be months more (given IRS backlogs).

If I knew back in April that refunds would take so long, I would have applied more of the refunds to estimated (forward) taxes, as, IIUC, you are credited with making those payments on ~April 15 of the year filed. Instead, I'll be making Q3 estimated payments in early September.

I presume there is no way to change this retroactively so that $X of the expected cash refund is instead diverted to the estimated payments? (I/we actually did this to an extent, but would, ideally, like to increase the share going to estimated taxes.)
I don't think they can specifically be redirected to estimated payments, but they could be applied to 2021's tax liability, which is about the same thing.
File an amended return? I'm thinking this way too.
jebmke
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Re: Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by jebmke »

bberris wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:00 am I don't think they can specifically be redirected to estimated payments, but they could be applied to 2021's tax liability, which is about the same thing.
File an amended return? I'm thinking this way too.
Not sure if this will work. The amendment normally needs to be processed after the original return is processed or all kinds of issues may develop.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
bberris
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Re: Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by bberris »

jebmke wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:22 am
bberris wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:00 am I don't think they can specifically be redirected to estimated payments, but they could be applied to 2021's tax liability, which is about the same thing.
File an amended return? I'm thinking this way too.
Not sure if this will work. The amendment normally needs to be processed after the original return is processed or all kinds of issues may develop.
I'm not sure either. I filed an amended return before my original was processed because I noticed a mistake. Still waiting for a refund from 2/26 amended so maybe I am experiencing issues of all kinds.
MarkNYC
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Re: Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by MarkNYC »

jebmke wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:22 am
bberris wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:00 am I don't think they can specifically be redirected to estimated payments, but they could be applied to 2021's tax liability, which is about the same thing.
File an amended return? I'm thinking this way too.
Not sure if this will work. The amendment normally needs to be processed after the original return is processed or all kinds of issues may develop.
Filing an amended return will not work, for the reason you stated. But there is another reason. There is no mechanism on amended return Form 1040-X to change an overpayment on the original return from a refund to an estimated tax payment, or vice versa.
Topic Author
psteinx
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Re: Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by psteinx »

FWIW, I already filed one set of amendments (Fed & state) for these returns (error in original - amended return raised tax liability computations, so I made payments with the amendments. Since the originals have not been processed, I assume the amendeds have not either (though the checks for the latter have been deposited).

Yeah, I don't think that another amendment (conventional one) wouldn't help. IIRC, the payment/refund options on amendments START from the point of previous returns' liability. i.e. If your first (or even amended) returns shows liability of, say, $12,000, and you amend (or re-amend) for a new tax liability of $12,100 or $11,900, the $100 +/- is a new obligation/refund.

But I dunno - hoped there was a long shot way that was different - maybe something that's not so much part of the amended return process, but some other process? As I said in the OP, thought it was a long shot, but you never know...
Topic Author
psteinx
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Re: Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by psteinx »

Also, although the next set of estimated tax payments isn't due until mid-September, it's a relevant issue for me now, because I have spare cash now that I would otherwise be investing, but now must reserve for those tax payments.

Yeah, it can earn a pittance of interest, but I'd prefer longer term investments, *if* I could either somehow apply the expected refund(s) to estimated tax payments, or knew that the cash refunds would arrive before mid September.
jebmke
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Re: Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by jebmke »

psteinx wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:53 am FWIW, I already filed one set of amendments (Fed & state) for these returns (error in original - amended return raised tax liability computations, so I made payments with the amendments. Since the originals have not been processed, I assume the amendeds have not either (though the checks for the latter have been deposited).

Yeah, I don't think that another amendment (conventional one) wouldn't help. IIRC, the payment/refund options on amendments START from the point of previous returns' liability. i.e. If your first (or even amended) returns shows liability of, say, $12,000, and you amend (or re-amend) for a new tax liability of $12,100 or $11,900, the $100 +/- is a new obligation/refund.

But I dunno - hoped there was a long shot way that was different - maybe something that's not so much part of the amended return process, but some other process? As I said in the OP, thought it was a long shot, but you never know...
Amendments are incremental to whatever state your return is in when the amendment is processed. If the amendment gets processed by a different center, I don't know what happens if a return is not yet in the system. The IRS guidance has always been to make sure that your return (and any prior amendments) have been processed before submitting an amendment. I'm not sure how they reconcile all this if they start processing amendments out of sequence. And, on a personal level, I don't want to find out.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
Topic Author
psteinx
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Re: Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by psteinx »

jebmke wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:04 amThe IRS guidance has always been to make sure that your return (and any prior amendments) have been processed before submitting an amendment. I'm not sure how they reconcile all this if they start processing amendments out of sequence. And, on a personal level, I don't want to find out.
Oh.

Eh... Whoops?!

Anyways, I filed originals, then amendments a few weeks later. Originals still not processed as of ~yesterday, ~3.5 months after filing, and who knows when they'll (both fed and state) actually get processed...
jebmke
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Re: Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by jebmke »

psteinx wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:13 am Anyways, I filed originals, then amendments a few weeks later. Originals still not processed as of ~yesterday, ~3.5 months after filing, and who knows when they'll (both fed and state) actually get processed...
Were either or both e-filed or paper?
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
Topic Author
psteinx
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Re: Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by psteinx »

jebmke wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:16 am Were either or both e-filed or paper?
Everything was paper filed.
jebmke
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Re: Redirect tax refund (not received) to estimated taxes?

Post by jebmke »

psteinx wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:23 am
jebmke wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:16 am Were either or both e-filed or paper?
Everything was paper filed.
That will complicate things further. If the original return were e-filed but not fully processed, someone processing a paper amendment might see an in-process return in the system. It could be that their system is able to hold an amendment that gets processed before the original return. I just don't know how sophisticated their matching system is.

Obviously, e-filing is almost always superior to paper filing but there are some types of returns where paper filing is the only option. Fortunately those are becoming fewer and fewer. They recently switched on e-filing for amended returns so that will help solve some of the paper processing problems they face.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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