Please help victim of fraud

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DCA2021
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Please help victim of fraud

Post by DCA2021 »

Hi All- I know this is really bad on my part but I had Monday fog and made a mistake.

I received a text this morning from someone who I know asking for $1k in Apple gift cards. It made sense why and how they were asking for them. Long story short- I found out after the fact that it was fraud and I’m out $1k.

Apple said money was already spent so they can’t help me and credit card company said I approved the transaction so they won’t do anything either. I can’t argue with either place but I would like to try and get my money back.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Marseille07
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by Marseille07 »

If the text was from someone you know, how did the scammer get a hold of your communication? Or was your friend the scammer?
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by RickBoglehead »

You should report this to the police, but both companies have said the right answer - you approved the transaction. This is a well-known scam. You can appeal to the credit card company, and ask Apple to disable the cards, but they probably already have been used.

NEVER RESPOND TO ANY TEXT MESSAGE, OR EMAIL, THAT ASKS FOR MONEY. Anyone you know would simply call you, and I know no one that would call and ask for $1,000 in an emergency.
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Flashes1
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by Flashes1 »

Chalk it up to the cost of doing business and vow never to act so unwisely ever again. You have to admit what you did was incredibly naive. Who gives $1k to anyone without talking to them first. I'd even check with my parents and siblings let alone a friend.
Da5id
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by Da5id »

Credit card companies often are accommodating to customers for fraudulent charges or chargebacks or such. But given that you explicitly authorized this I can see what they say it isn't their problem. Sorry to say this is just an expensive lesson you've learned. Seems like a pretty common problem, as Amazon has a help page for it:

https://www.amazon.com/giftcardscams/b?node=15435487011
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by Big Dog »

This is a well-known scam.
Yes, been ongoing for years. You aren't the first, and definitely won't be the last. Happened to my former HR Assistant a few years back, but fortunately she figured out the scam before all the money was gone and was able to get Apple to cancel the few gift cards that had not been cashed in. Sorry, you are SOL.
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samsoes
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by samsoes »

Yikes!

Can you share the reason that they gave which convinced you that it was "legitimate?". I would use that information to warn my elderly parents about such a scam.
Last edited by samsoes on Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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galawdawg
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by galawdawg »

Sorry you experienced this. You aren't alone. In my career as a DA, I've seen similar cases involving lawyers, doctors, business owners and even a Superior Court Judge. You can report it to your local law enforcement but the likelihood that it will result in an arrest is slim to nil.

You have no remedy with your credit card issuer or Apple. As you acknowledged, this was your error in judgment. Sorry, but the money is gone. You won't get it back.

Unfortunately, this is one of those life lessons you will likely never forget. And if you can set aside any feelings of embarrassment, by sharing your experience with family, friends and colleagues, you may help prevent one of them from making the same mistake you did.

Best wishes.
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by simas »

DCA2021 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:19 am
Apple said money was already spent so they can’t help me and credit card company said I approved the transaction so they won’t do anything either. I can’t argue with either place but I would like to try and get my money back.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
file a police report, move on - money is already gone.

I am not sure what 'Monday fog' is , however you already know the answers other give you - think about judgement used and try not to repeat it.
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JupiterJones
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by JupiterJones »

For those reading this, the gift card payment method is the big red flag here. No normal person would ask for that much money in such a weird and specific format, but scammers do this almost exclusively these days.

To the OP, well yeah, I'm afraid the others are right and you're out the money. Smarter people than you have fallen for this same thing. (These scams take advantage of things like fear, generosity, etc., to a far larger degree than stupidity.)

I agree that reporting this to the police is really the only thing you can do. Not sure what they'll do, but at least you'll have done your part.

Well... if you felt particularly evil, you could try to string along your scammers for fun, aka "scambaiting". Email them back to check on how the gift cards went and tell them that there's more where that came from if they need it. Don't let on that you know they're scammers--pretend they really are your friend. There are entire websites (419eater for example) where people engage in hilarious back-and-forth, wasting these scammers' time and resources all the while, which hopefully gives the scammers less time to scam other people. (This is a hobby not for the faint-hearted... these people are criminals, after all, and caution should always be exercised.)
Last edited by JupiterJones on Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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basspond
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by basspond »

I would talk with your government representative to work on a law to make any sort of fraudulent attempt to scam people out of money a very severe felony. They take an oath to protect us but they don’t.
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ThereAreNoGurus
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by ThereAreNoGurus »

samsoes wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:43 am Yikes!

Can you share the reason that they gave which convinced you that it was "legitimate?". I would use that information to warn my elderly parents about such a scam.
+1

Would love to know what transpired. I have yet to see one of these scams that seemed legit even on the surface. Of course, I'd try to contact by voice or some other means to confirm the request, but I don't know what Monday Fog is (hungover? haha).
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by surfstar »

$1,000 lesson

Sorry OP.

Well, at least your week should only get better from here!
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DCA2021
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by DCA2021 »

This is so bizarre you may not believe it but it came from a professional source that I thought was running a test to see how quickly I could accomplish a task with explicit instructions. They wanted 5 gift cards immediately. I literally ran out of my house to get them to prove how responsive I was. It was such a bizarre situation that it could never be repeated.
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by TomatoTomahto »

ThereAreNoGurus wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:01 pm I don't know what Monday Fog is (hungover? haha).
I don’t drink, but after a weekend hanging out by the pool, it takes me a little while and more than one cup of coffee to be alert on Monday morning when we wake up so my wife can go to work (at her home office; commute = 100 feet).
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by Bagels »

DCA2021 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:19 am I can’t argue with either place but I would like to try and get my money back.
Common scam, as others have said.
I don't think you have much recourse here, but:
1. Forgive yourself.
2. Be glad it was only 1K
3. Read up on computer security and on scams.

This 1K hit may have saved you from a future 100K or 1MM hit.
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ThereAreNoGurus
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by ThereAreNoGurus »

DCA2021 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:07 pm This is so bizarre you may not believe it but it came from a professional source that I thought was running a test to see how quickly I could accomplish a task with explicit instructions. They wanted 5 gift cards immediately. I literally ran out of my house to get them to prove how responsive I was. It was such a bizarre situation that it could never be repeated.
Thx, OP for telling us.

See Bagel's post above mine... good advice. With all this tech available, the scammers are like bacteria surrounding an organism always probing for a weakness and mutating as well.
Last edited by ThereAreNoGurus on Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gwe67
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by gwe67 »

JupiterJones wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:59 am For those reading this, the gift card payment method is the big red flag here. No normal person would ask for that much money in such a weird and specific format, but scammers do this almost exclusively these days.

To the OP, well yeah, I'm afraid the others are right and you're out the money. Smarter people than you have fallen for this same thing. (These scams take advantage of things like fear, generosity, etc., to a far larger degree than stupidity.)

I agree that reporting this to the police is really the only thing you can do. Not sure what they'll do, but at least you'll have done your part.

Well... if you felt particularly evil, you could try to string along your scammers for fun, aka "scambaiting". Email them back to check on how the gift cards went and tell them that there's more where that came from if they need it. Don't let on that you know they're scammers--pretend they really are your friend. There are entire websites (419eater for example) where people engage in hilarious back-and-forth, wasting these scammers' time and resources all the while, which hopefully gives the scammers less time to scam other people. (This is a hobby not for the faint-hearted... these people are criminals, after all, and caution should always be exercised.)
You could actually play along and try to get their email, phone, or mailing address. This might make it actionable for law enforcement.
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galawdawg
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by galawdawg »

basspond wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:00 pm I would talk with your government representative to work on a law to make any sort of fraudulent attempt to scam people out of money a very severe felony. They take an oath to protect us but they don’t.
In quite a few states, it already is a felony. In some, it depends on the amount of money involved.

But many of these scams are run by overseas and/or out-of-state operations which are beyond the reach of state and local law enforcement agencies. For example, the crooks operating out of Florida know NOT to target non-Florida residents. While the feds can and do investigate these types of cases when they are able to determine a pattern of significant loss, by the time they do indict the thieves, there is little or nothing to recover.

From a state and local perspective, any crimes committed in this manner by out-of-state bad actors are likewise beyond the reach of state and local investigators and prosecutors whose authority to obtain and execute search warrants, compel production of records and witness testimony and the like ends at the state line. So most of these types of cases are, by necessity, referred by state and local authorities to the FBI, Secret Service or Department of Justice.

I personally prosecuted quite a few similar cases involving perpetrators in Georgia but whenever I required the attendance of an out-of-state witness to prove my case (think any major financial institution or corporation not headquartered in Georgia), it was a crap shoot whether they would voluntarily appear in court. My ability to compel them to appear for trial involving a non-violent felony simply didn't exist. And when a sharp defense attorney knows a DA can't produce a witness (say from Apple or the cell phone provider in a case like this) to prove an essential element of the case....it is over. No guilty plea, no trial, no justice.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by RickBoglehead »

JupiterJones wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:59 am

Well... if you felt particularly evil, you could try to string along your scammers for fun, aka "scambaiting". Email them back to check on how the gift cards went and tell them that there's more where that came from if they need it. Don't let on that you know they're scammers--pretend they really are your friend. There are entire websites (419eater for example) where people engage in hilarious back-and-forth, wasting these scammers' time and resources all the while, which hopefully gives the scammers less time to scam other people. (This is a hobby not for the faint-hearted... these people are criminals, after all, and caution should always be exercised.)
This is AWFUL advice. OP got taken advantage of in a scam that many of us would have caught onto and not fallen for. To suggest that the OP now should further engage? Are you kidding? :thumbsdown
DCA2021 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:07 pm This is so bizarre you may not believe it but it came from a professional source that I thought was running a test to see how quickly I could accomplish a task with explicit instructions. They wanted 5 gift cards immediately. I literally ran out of my house to get them to prove how responsive I was. It was such a bizarre situation that it could never be repeated.
As suggested by myself and others, you should contact the police NOW.

Second, it's time to step back and do some self-assessment. You've proven to yourself that you're susceptible to an intelligent scammer. It's time to RAMP UP your situational awareness and be on the alert for future attempts. These scammers will mark you as "fresh meat" and sell your phone number to others. You WILL get more text messages, or calls, to that number, trying for more money. I'd strongly recommend you contact your cell provider and tell them you wish to get a new number because you were the victim of a scam and you want to cut off future contact. Inconvenient? Yes! So is losing $1,000.
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Da5id
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by Da5id »

Also seems possible the contact's phone/address book has been compromised. They could be spoofing the caller id (allegedly harder with Stir/Shaken being implemented), or they have hijacked the friend's phone number perhaps? Was this a text message (SMS) or another variety like FB Messenger or such?
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by TexasPE »

galawdawg wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:43 am Sorry you experienced this. You aren't alone.
+1. Had relative lose $1400 via giftcards through Facebook Marketplace. He wanted to buy a utility trailer that fit his needs at a good price, and bit. The posted photos and description/ reason for sale made sense to him. The seller was going to drop the trailer by after the sale. The relative is intelligent but trusting and thought he was buying the trailer from a recent widow.
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by Katietsu »

Focus your efforts on avoiding future losses. I do believe you may now be targeted as an easy mark. I have seen it happen. One that just bothered me the most is when the scammer comes back to the original victim posing as a service that, for a fee, can get the original money back.
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by Marseille07 »

Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:21 pm Also seems possible the contact's phone/address book has been compromised. They could be spoofing the caller id (allegedly harder with Stir/Shaken being implemented), or they have hijacked the friend's phone number perhaps? Was this a text message (SMS) or another variety like FB Messenger or such?
Yeah this seemed bizarre to me as well. Even if the scammer obtains OP's phone number, how can they keep disguising as the friend & essentially intercept the communication is beyond my understanding of SMS.

Unless, of course, the friend is part of the scheme.
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by surfstar »

I don't see how the police will be able to help.

The equivalent is that someone dressed up as your friend, asked you to give them $1,000 cash, and you did. They deceived you. Cops aren't going to get to work on that one either.
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by RickBoglehead »

surfstar wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:52 pm I don't see how the police will be able to help.

The equivalent is that someone dressed up as your friend, asked you to give them $1,000 cash, and you did. They deceived you. Cops aren't going to get to work on that one either.
That's irrelevant.

What's relevant here is that a crime was committed. It should be reported, if for no other reason than to establish that this type of fraud is increasing.
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

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DCA2021 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:07 pm This is so bizarre you may not believe it but it came from a professional source that I thought was running a test to see how quickly I could accomplish a task with explicit instructions. They wanted 5 gift cards immediately. I literally ran out of my house to get them to prove how responsive I was. It was such a bizarre situation that it could never be repeated.
A couple years ago my PhD cohort received an email supposedly from the department head asking for gift cards. I don't think anyone fell for it but it gives you an idea as to how they try to disguise themselves as your superiors.
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by JupiterJones »

AARP has a whole section of their "Scams & Fraud" area devoted to gift cards: https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/ ... UBNAV-GIFT (Scroll down to see some of the stories. The OP has joined a large club, unfortunately.)

BTW, they also have a place where you can report the scam. Similar to reporting it to the police, it's not going to help you much, but it might help the next person. https://www.aarp.org/money/scams-fraud/ ... CM-FRD-MAP
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

DCA2021 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:07 pm This is so bizarre you may not believe it but it came from a professional source that I thought was running a test to see how quickly I could accomplish a task with explicit instructions. They wanted 5 gift cards immediately. I literally ran out of my house to get them to prove how responsive I was. It was such a bizarre situation that it could never be repeated.
let's hope it never does.

that being said, since it worked once, it will probably keep being tried.

that being the case, could you give us more info as to how it came about/what was said/requested, etc?

did you think you'd win a prize if you got the cards in a fast enough time?

are there legitimate businesses that operate that way?

the ftc says there arent:
No real business or government agency will ever insist you pay them with a gift card. Anyone who demands to be paid with a gift card is a scammer. Read on to learn more about gift card scams.

source: https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/gift-card-scams
also you should report it for a couple reasons. One, if you don't they know they got away with it and will try again (with you or another). Second, it may help others not fall prey to the scam (know it's goolge play not apple, but probably the same expectation):
If you’re a victim of a gift card scam, report the scam to your local police department.You can also report the scam to the Federal Trade Commission.

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Chuckles960
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by Chuckles960 »

gwe67 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:14 pmYou could actually play along and try to get their email, phone, or mailing address. This might make it actionable for law enforcement.
They're crooks, not idiots.
mr_mac3 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:30 pm
DCA2021 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:07 pm This is so bizarre you may not believe it but it came from a professional source that I thought was running a test to see how quickly I could accomplish a task with explicit instructions. They wanted 5 gift cards immediately. I literally ran out of my house to get them to prove how responsive I was. It was such a bizarre situation that it could never be repeated.
A couple years ago my PhD cohort received an email supposedly from the department head asking for gift cards. I don't think anyone fell for it but it gives you an idea as to how they try to disguise themselves as your superiors.
Yes, happened to us also. They impersonate the department chair because he is someone the rest of us might be eager to please. I don't think they understand academia very well, but anyway, it must work in some instances.

Also this way they don't have to design a different scam for each person with a different "friend", they can send the same thing to everyone in a given department. It often starts with a brief e-mail saying "Are you available?" or some such. That is something I have actually responded to, without becoming suspicious. Then the next e-mail describes some emergency, which somehow requires gift cards or Western Union... Fortunately, among other things, their non-idiomatic English gives them away---not that I'd send gift cards to someone who wrote English just like the department chair.
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by Doctor Rhythm »

RickBoglehead wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:19 pm
JupiterJones wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:59 am

Well... if you felt particularly evil, you could try to string along your scammers for fun, aka "scambaiting". Email them back to check on how the gift cards went and tell them that there's more where that came from if they need it. Don't let on that you know they're scammers--pretend they really are your friend. There are entire websites (419eater for example) where people engage in hilarious back-and-forth, wasting these scammers' time and resources all the while, which hopefully gives the scammers less time to scam other people. (This is a hobby not for the faint-hearted... these people are criminals, after all, and caution should always be exercised.)
This is AWFUL advice. OP got taken advantage of in a scam that many of us would have caught onto and not fallen for. To suggest that the OP now should further engage? Are you kidding? :thumbsdown
DCA2021 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:07 pm This is so bizarre you may not believe it but it came from a professional source that I thought was running a test to see how quickly I could accomplish a task with explicit instructions. They wanted 5 gift cards immediately. I literally ran out of my house to get them to prove how responsive I was. It was such a bizarre situation that it could never be repeated.
As suggested by myself and others, you should contact the police NOW.

Second, it's time to step back and do some self-assessment. You've proven to yourself that you're susceptible to an intelligent scammer. It's time to RAMP UP your situational awareness and be on the alert for future attempts. These scammers will mark you as "fresh meat" and sell your phone number to others. You WILL get more text messages, or calls, to that number, trying for more money. I'd strongly recommend you contact your cell provider and tell them you wish to get a new number because you were the victim of a scam and you want to cut off future contact. Inconvenient? Yes! So is losing $1,000.
Agree - there is no way you’re going to win by engaging with them or trying to scam the scammers. At best you’ve wasted a little bit of their time. At worst, you’ve turned a scammer who doesn’t care a bit about you into someone who now holds a personal grudge against you and can make your life miserable.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by ResearchMed »

Another reason to report it is that the reports may help some authority notice some sort of patten - location, phone numbers used, etc. We'll probably never know, but it can't hurt to report it and it migh help...

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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by Big Dog »

There are worse (and bigger scams). In my former role as CFO, I used to get e-mails from the 'Chairman' and the 'President', saying that they were working on a critical deal for the company and I was needed to wire money immediately for a deposit. Just 'click here' for wire instructions. One day, one of those e-mails popped up from the "President" who just happened to be sitting across my desk.

I never bit, but I did hear (from one of our Board members) that the CFO of one of his company wired out $500k! To keep his job, the CRO had to pay it all back to the company, instead of file an corp insurance claim for a 'loss'.
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StevieG72
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Re: Please help victim of fraud

Post by StevieG72 »

Unfortunately that money is gone.

It happens all the time, and has many different angles.

I am aware first hand of many instances involving thousands of dollars, money is never recovered, perpetrators are never prosecuted.
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