How strong are my golden handcuffs

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Normchad
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Re: How strong are my goldern handcuffs

Post by Normchad »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:09 pm OP, how responsive do you think management will be to a surge in Delta variant cases, even among the vaccinated? Not asking for medical opinions, but it is a fact that there is an increase in so called breakthrough cases.

I personally think that you could do 4 months standing on your head, but it’s your comfort, your summer, etc. Good luck.
Yep. A lot of companies have been planning the “return to normal” for months now. Mine included.

I expect a lot of companies are going to delay their implementation in the near future…..
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MAKsdad
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Re: How strong are my goldern handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

I am not bright enough to multi-quote, so I'll address a handful of things here:

- In terms of timing, as long as I'm employed on 12/31, I will get paid my bonus. If I waited until then to resign, I would tell management that I would work my notice period remotely...at that point, if they told me to just leave the day I notify them, I wouldn't be upset.

- I was originally planning to retire 2 years ago. Some family matters kept me working longer than I planned, and then once COVID hit I felt it was silly to retire when I was getting paid to stay home anyway. So mentally, I have been ready to call it quits for a while. This isn't really a snap decision at all...if we had gone back full time in March, I'd have quit then for sure. The only issue is that we're now so close to year-end/vesting that it's altering my thought process.
Neuron
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Re: How strong are my goldern handcuffs

Post by Neuron »

Some of the comments here seem overly conservative to me. I think this is due to dealing with percentages only, and I had to put the percentages into dollar amounts to have a better understanding of the OP’s situation.

Hypothetically (imaginary numbers since OP didn’t want to share the real numbers), OP has expenses of $40,000 per year but has a net worth of $2.67 million. That is a 1.5% WR. Now they are talking about increasing net worth by 4%, which would be $100,000 in this scenario. Going from $2.67 mil to $2.77 mil does not seem worth the effort to me.

For big spenders, (again, imaginary numbers), OP spends $120,000 per year and has $8 million and is asking if they need to keep going to get to $8.3 million. 😀

I think you should just let the shackles go and do what you want with your life.
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Watty
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Re: How strong are my goldern handcuffs

Post by Watty »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:41 am
...pass it up over 4 months of work.

- We can't carry vacation over, so I only have about 3 weeks left.
It may seem a bit petty but you should count up the actual number of days you will actually need to go into the the office. That might help you make the decision.

In addition to three weeks vacation(15 days) you would also have holidays like Labor day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years day. At some companies you may get some additional time like the day before Christmas or the day after Thanksgiving where you may not be required to actually go into the office as long as you are available if there is a problem. If you likely will get some days like these then don't schedule your vacation on those days.

If you travel for your job there may also be some days when you would be on the road anyway.

I did not do the math but I would guess that would bring the total down to something like 90 days or less that you would actually need to go into the office. I would think that you would be paid a really good daily rate for the days that you need to go into the office.

You may want to think of what the extra money will buy you in terms of the opportunity cost instead of dollar terms. That may give you a better idea of the tradeoff would be worthwhile or not. For example if you would spend the money on something like a fancy car, RV, high end safari, or boat that you would not otherwise buy then you can decide if working the extra days is worthwhile or not based on that. Some well off people have a real hard time actually spending money when they retire. If that could be a problem for you then you could put the extra funds into a play money account that you might be more comfortable with spending on splurges.

In normal times I think working the extra time would be well worth it. In a pandemic though you need to consider what risks you would be taking like if you would be taking a commuter train or working in a crowed office where there is little space between people.
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MAKsdad
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Re: How strong are my goldern handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

Watty wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:33 pm
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:41 am
...pass it up over 4 months of work.

- We can't carry vacation over, so I only have about 3 weeks left.
It may seem a bit petty but you should count up the actual number of days you will actually need to go into the the office. That might help you make the decision.

In addition to three weeks vacation(15 days) you would also have holidays like Labor day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years day. At some companies you may get some additional time like the day before Christmas or the day after Thanksgiving where you may not be required to actually go into the office as long as you are available if there is a problem. If you likely will get some days like these then don't schedule your vacation on those days.

If you travel for your job there may also be some days when you would be on the road anyway.

I did not do the math but I would guess that would bring the total down to something like 90 days or less that you would actually need to go into the office. I would think that you would be paid a really good daily rate for the days that you need to go into the office.

You may want to think of what the extra money will buy you in terms of the opportunity cost instead of dollar terms. That may give you a better idea of the tradeoff would be worthwhile or not. For example if you would spend the money on something like a fancy car, RV, high end safari, or boat that you would not otherwise buy then you can decide if working the extra days is worthwhile or not based on that. Some well off people have a real hard time actually spending money when they retire. If that could be a problem for you then you could put the extra funds into a play money account that you might be more comfortable with spending on splurges.

In normal times I think working the extra time would be well worth it. In a pandemic though you need to consider what risks you would be taking like if you would be taking a commuter train or working in a crowed office where there is little space between people.
Interesting thought. From Aug. 1 - Dec. 31 I would be in the office 79 days.

In terms of risk, I consider my office to be very low risk. Commute is by car. This is not a pandemic issue at all.
PVW
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by PVW »

At 44+, your life expectancy is about 34 years. 4% golden handcuffs plus 4 months salary with savings is about 3 years of current expenses.

Are you willing to withstand office work for 1% of your remaining life to bank 3 years of expenses? To me, given you are young and you know you can withstand the soul crushing pain of office work, I think you should tough it out and bank the money.

On the other hand, you could die tomorrow and the remaining people on this board will regret that you didn't pursue your dreams when you had enough for a 3% SWR.
Ron Ronnerson
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Re: How strong are my goldern handcuffs

Post by Ron Ronnerson »

I would put in the four months. After accounting for using up accumulated vacation days, sick time, holidays, and weekends, you’d put in maybe two months of actual work time to increase net worth by 4%. That is substantial enough for such little time and you are only 44 so you still have a long retirement to enjoy ahead of you.

It’s established that you already have enough but what if the payout for the extra 4 months was equal to, just hypothetically, 100% of your net worth? I have an inkling that you wouldn’t be asking this question even though you’d still have enough to retire immediately in that (sort of preposterous) scenario as well.

I personally think 4% would be worth it in this situation. 1% wouldn’t be. If you were 74, it wouldn’t be. If you had to put in 1 year more, it wouldn’t be. But 4 months that’s likely more like 2 months for a 44 year old in order to get 4%, I’d do it. Then live more lavishly in retirement or, if you don’t need the money, you can always donate it to a cause you care about.
saveinvestbecomefree
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by saveinvestbecomefree »

Lots of good advice in the comments. I'll add one more perspective......think about the best choice in terms of regret minimization. Your long term happiness with the decision will likely be determined by this.

Will you regret not staying 4 months and getting the extra money? Or will you regret working an extra 4 months back at the office?

I suspect you'll regret leaving now more than working 4 more months, especially given your age. Even if you really dislike the next 4 months back at the office, it will just make you appreciate retirement that much more. But when you have more time in retirement, you might look back and feel dumb for leaving that much money on the table for a few months of work, even though you don't need it. Luckily it seems like any handcuffs beyond 2021 are weaker so you can happily leave at the end of the year without regrets.

Maybe even do some mental accounting and put this money into a separate bucket to spend on something really fun for you.

For perspective, I'm a few years older and also projected at ~1-1.5% WR and am staying a bit longer due to some nice $ incentives coming and the fact that I don't mind my job most days. We're earmarking some of the extra to splurge more on housing and moving costs if we can finalize where we want to go (looks like we'll need the extra given home price gains in the areas we're considering).

Best of luck!
srt7
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by srt7 »

I'd do the 4 months while using up all my PTO (vacation, sick - mental health day etc.) During that period I would mentally transition out of the job and in to retirement. Additionally, I would let my manager know immediately about my intentions of leaving Dec. 31st. and ensure none of my colleagues are left hanging with work related support.

You have enough money to leave in style. Make a graceful exit!
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
Joey Jo Jo Jr
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Joey Jo Jo Jr »

Do the time. Not just for some of the easiest money of your career, but because you might end your time there with a much better perspective or memory of things after taking a “victory lap” while the pressure is off. Relish your valued co-workers/clients. Take your son/daughter to work. Finish or start a project that is important to you. Spend extra time with a mentee. Get a going away party, or if your work doesn’t do that, throw your own off premises a with up to 1% of your NW. 😄
an_asker
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by an_asker »

srt7 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:03 pm [...]Additionally, I would let my manager know immediately about my intentions of leaving Dec. 31st. and ensure none of my colleagues are left hanging with work related support.[...]
Absolutely NOT!!!

OP has already made his/her intentions clear (here) of being available if it is a remote job. Don't need to risk getting let go rightaway by telling manager now. If company deems that OP is needed to prevent overburdening colleagues, they can offer him a contract or extend OP's employment ... on OP's terms, i..e, work from home.
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MAKsdad
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

an_asker wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:26 pm
srt7 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:03 pm [...]Additionally, I would let my manager know immediately about my intentions of leaving Dec. 31st. and ensure none of my colleagues are left hanging with work related support.[...]
Absolutely NOT!!!

OP has already made his/her intentions clear (here) of being available if it is a remote job. Don't need to risk getting let go rightaway by telling manager now. If company deems that OP is needed to prevent overburdening colleagues, they can offer him a contract or extend OP's employment ... on OP's terms, i..e, work from home.
Yes, this. I'm not going to telegraph my intentions early on this one. I'll do my best not to leave anyone hanging, but I'm not going to risk them replacing me before I vest.
flyingaway
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by flyingaway »

Money is always attractive. After the 4 months, you might consider the next 12 months.

That is happening to me, although as an academic,I do not have that much money to talk about. I'm struggling for 6 months, maybe another 6 months, and another.

After 4 months returning to office, you might really like it.
Globalviewer58
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Globalviewer58 »

You may find they will be OK with WFH as a consultant once you walk away. It seems you would be willing to work in that scenario so include that in your thinking.
rich126
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by rich126 »

If my math is right, that extra 4% of NW means your SWR drops from 1.5% to 1.44%. Of course I'm assuming NW = your savings that the SWR is coming from and that may be wrong.

For example:
1,000,000 -> 15,000 at 1.5%
4% boost = 40,000
New amount = 1,040,000 and 15K of that is 1.44%

If that is accurate, it seems pointless to stick around. Now of course if the numbers are 10X that, then sticking around for $400K is different than for $40K.
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Lee_WSP
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Lee_WSP »

Is the 4% life changing?

If not, I can't answer since it's a cost benefit analysis only you can decide. Money doesn't but happiness, but it does buy stuff and security.
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MAKsdad
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

rich126 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:11 pm If my math is right, that extra 4% of NW means your SWR drops from 1.5% to 1.44%. Of course I'm assuming NW = your savings that the SWR is coming from and that may be wrong.

For example:
1,000,000 -> 15,000 at 1.5%
4% boost = 40,000
New amount = 1,040,000 and 15K of that is 1.44%

If that is accurate, it seems pointless to stick around. Now of course if the numbers are 10X that, then sticking around for $400K is different than for $40K.
It's closer to $400 than $40...hence the "problem"
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Watty
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Watty »

saveinvestbecomefree wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:00 pm Even if you really dislike the next 4 months back at the office, it will just make you appreciate retirement that much more. But when you have more time in retirement, you might look back and feel dumb for leaving that much money on the table for a few months of work, even though you don't need it.
That is a very good point.

One other thing that may not have been mentioned is that if you go back to the office for a week and find it unbearable then you can still quit. If that happens then that would also help you be sure that you made the right choice.
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anon_investor
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by anon_investor »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:26 pm
rich126 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:11 pm If my math is right, that extra 4% of NW means your SWR drops from 1.5% to 1.44%. Of course I'm assuming NW = your savings that the SWR is coming from and that may be wrong.

For example:
1,000,000 -> 15,000 at 1.5%
4% boost = 40,000
New amount = 1,040,000 and 15K of that is 1.44%

If that is accurate, it seems pointless to stick around. Now of course if the numbers are 10X that, then sticking around for $400K is different than for $40K.
It's closer to $400 than $40...hence the "problem"
I vote stay, but take your vacation. Use that money to do something fun or buy a new car. :beer
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MAKsdad
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

Watty wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:29 pm One other thing that may not have been mentioned is that if you go back to the office for a week and find it unbearable then you can still quit. If that happens then that would also help you be sure that you made the right choice.
This seems like an incredibly obvious point, but I thank you for making it.
ymmt
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by ymmt »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:26 pm It's closer to $400 than $40...hence the "problem"
Funny, I estimated around the same area just using my 150k expenses as a ballpark.

I probably would've bailed out at around 8mm, but if you can pocket a couple hundred K for 4 months then I would stick it out and consider it 100% [offensive abbreviation removed by Moderator Misenplace] money. Crazy vacation? Two new cars? The wine cooler room you always wanted? :sharebeer
Misenplace
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Misenplace »

I was in a similar situation. Four more months to get vested in a performance bonus that might have paid out even more. Also, they were being accommodating about my work location. We are under a 2.5% withdrawal rate. I walked. Absolutely no regrets. Love having my own time.

Also, are you considering that 4% as after tax? It may be more like 2.4%, or even less if you are in a high tax state.
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MAKsdad
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

Misenplace wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:40 pm I was in a similar situation. Four more months to get vested in a performance bonus that might have paid out even more. Also, they were being accommodating about my work location. We are under a 2.5% withdrawal rate. I walked. Absolutely no regrets. Love having my own time.

Also, are you considering that 4% as after tax? It may be more like 2.4%, or even less if you are in a high tax state.
Good question...all of my numbers are already post-tax.
mtn biker
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by mtn biker »

Watty wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:29 pm One other thing that may not have been mentioned is that if you go back to the office for a week and find it unbearable then you can still quit. If that happens then that would also help you be sure that you made the right choice.
I would second this comment. You don't know what will happen with the Delta variant, you haven't returned to the office yet, you haven't quit yet and you posted the question here so obviously the money means something to you. Just quit when you want to, no need to game it out in advance.

Having said that, I'd probably happily work the 4 months of my job and use the money for a work of art I wouldn't otherwise purchase, or a favorite charity, or some other goal I chose. But I'm not you and don't work your job, and you don't really talk about how much you like/dislike your job, so we really don't have much to go on. But maybe give it time, return to work and see how a couple weeks go. If you hate it quit, if you like it continue, and if you can't decide then just flip a coin or have your family vote. They probably know you a lot better than we do. :)
neednewcar
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by neednewcar »

Go post this on the MMM forum. They would have a field day. Plenty over there quit the day they hit the 4% SWR and don't bat an eye.

You have enough money now to double your annual spending to a super safe 3% SWR for the rest of your life. Will 4 months of work allow give you more opportunities with the extra money? The answer is no, you have everything you could want or need now.

There is a non zero chance you could go in, get the delta variant and get long covid. Or you could enjoy retirement.

Plus, the job market is white hot. If you saved that much you'd find remote work no problem.
lurkman
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by lurkman »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:14 am My company has announced a full time return to office beginning September 1. For a variety of reasons, remote work has really suited me and my family's dynamic, and I'm thinking about retiring rather than go back full time into the office. From a retirement standpoint, I am not really concerned about the numbers (my spouse and I are both 44, and we have a projected WR of right around 1.5% right now).

The issue is golden handcuffs. If I walk away at the end of August, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. I could add another 4% to our current net worth if I worked through the end of the year, due to equity vesting and earning my '21 bonus (I'm reluctant to post the actual $ amount I would be foregoing just because I feel like it would bias the discussion).

Long story short, I don't feel like I need the extra money, but the practical side of me thinks that I would be a moron to pass it up over 4 months of work.

Any useful insights?

My two cents:

Don’t do it for the money. Get your team well situated for a transition beyond your tenure by not leaving abruptly. Has the company been good to you and your financial well being? If yes, then do it to leave on good terms and not burning any bridges. You are 44 and a professional. You may still work with your present colleagues in the future.

If you can do this without compromising your family’s well being over the next 4 months, you’ll be fine; it’s only 4 months (79 days in the office, you said).

If they terminate your position before vesting, let it go and let the money go; you tried to do the right thing. You have enough to live on.

If your family needs you to stay home starting immediately, explain that to your team and quit now.

If you feel later that you somehow stayed on for the money and put that ahead of your family, just donate the money to charity and enjoy your retirement with your family.
Texanbybirth
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Texanbybirth »

I wouldn't call you a moron if you skipped out on the four months/bonus/handcuffs, but why not just try returning to the office? It sounds like you've got 12/31/2021 as your retirement date no matter what, so if it happens to move up to 08/31 or 09/30 because you honestly just can't stand it, then so be it. But I can think of several ways to reward myself with an extra $400k if I did make it to 12/31. :happy

You're in a great spot either way. I hope it turns out well for you.

:beer
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chw
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by chw »

If it was me, I would suck it up for 4 months, and do the minimum to get the bonus money you describe. If you feel that your health could be significantly impacted in some way by returning to the office, that's a different story.
PVW
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by PVW »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:26 pm
rich126 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:11 pm If my math is right, that extra 4% of NW means your SWR drops from 1.5% to 1.44%. Of course I'm assuming NW = your savings that the SWR is coming from and that may be wrong.

For example:
1,000,000 -> 15,000 at 1.5%
4% boost = 40,000
New amount = 1,040,000 and 15K of that is 1.44%

If that is accurate, it seems pointless to stick around. Now of course if the numbers are 10X that, then sticking around for $400K is different than for $40K.
It's closer to $400 than $40...hence the "problem"
That would be a very significant amount to some charities. If charity is important to you and your family, then you could donate the money and think of your time back at the office as charity work.
barnaclebob
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by barnaclebob »

Id suck it up with the intent of spending half of that money on some really cool trips and new toys.

Four months isn't very long with a definite end in sight.
Last edited by barnaclebob on Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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oldcomputerguy
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by oldcomputerguy »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:14 am The issue is golden handcuffs. If I walk away at the end of August, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. I could add another 4% to our current net worth if I worked through the end of the year, due to equity vesting and earning my '21 bonus (I'm reluctant to post the actual $ amount I would be foregoing just because I feel like it would bias the discussion).

Long story short, I don't feel like I need the extra money, but the practical side of me thinks that I would be a moron to pass it up over 4 months of work.
I retired in 2017 from a place where I had worked for 36 years. I had a job that I loved, up until the last two years or so. From that point on, it became a source of stress both at work and at home.

I sat down with my wife and my financial plan and did some number-crunching, and we decided that we were in good enough shape that I didn't have to do it anymore. Next day, I handed in my six-month notice. One of the things I considered before tending my resignation was that, if I stayed around another five years (until FRA), I could have beefed up my 401(k) to the tune of an additional $120k+ plus company matching. Part of me thought that I was crazy to leave that on the table. However, as I said, we had "Enough", so I gave the GM my notice and never looked back. I have never regretted it.

Let your financial plan (you do have one, right? :wink: ), rather than fear of missing out on those last dollars, be the driving force in your decision. If you're in good enough shape, that extra 4 months of income won't make an earth-shaking difference in your retirement.
There is only one success - to be able to spend your life in your own way. (Christopher Morley)
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anon_investor
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by anon_investor »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:44 pm
Misenplace wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:40 pm I was in a similar situation. Four more months to get vested in a performance bonus that might have paid out even more. Also, they were being accommodating about my work location. We are under a 2.5% withdrawal rate. I walked. Absolutely no regrets. Love having my own time.

Also, are you considering that 4% as after tax? It may be more like 2.4%, or even less if you are in a high tax state.
Good question...all of my numbers are already post-tax.
If so, I double down my vote for you to stay the 4 months (minus the 3 weeks vacation). But, definitely take that money and do something fun and amazing with friends and family.
random_walker_77
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by random_walker_77 »

Bottomline, you don't need to go back, but there's an interesting amount of money on the table to stay through the end of the year. Note that the first 2 months of the year are also taxed very lightly.

Can you take an unpaid leave (or sabbatical)? Ask for 3 months off and see what happens?

Can you transfer into another role (or non-management, if applicable)?

Can you take a pay cut in exchange for reduced hours? At 80% time, it's a lot more feasible to hang on longer. Often, vesting isn't affected so long as you're still at the company.

Since you clearly could leave and be ok, it doesn't hurt to ask. The worst thing they can say is "no"
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ClevrChico
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by ClevrChico »

One life lesson my parents taught me is to "never look a gift horse in the mouth". I'd power through the last four months of the year to get the equity you earned, especially at only age 44.

Also, it's likely return to work will be delayed.
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retiredjg
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by retiredjg »

You don't need the money. You don't want to go back to work in the office. Seems to me the only reason to go back is to make the transition easy on your team and the workplace overall.

But you can't do that if you wait until December to tell everybody you are leaving.

So why would you go back?
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by elle »

TLDR; given everything going on, I'd continue to play it by ear for the final squeeze.

Save your vacation days so that you can shorten the duration between Sept 1 and the magic date. Also consider requesting an exception when return to work is actually a reality to defer the Sept 1 date.

September looks less and less realistic right now.
srt7
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by srt7 »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:45 pm
an_asker wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:26 pm
srt7 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:03 pm [...]Additionally, I would let my manager know immediately about my intentions of leaving Dec. 31st. and ensure none of my colleagues are left hanging with work related support.[...]
Absolutely NOT!!!

OP has already made his/her intentions clear (here) of being available if it is a remote job. Don't need to risk getting let go rightaway by telling manager now. If company deems that OP is needed to prevent overburdening colleagues, they can offer him a contract or extend OP's employment ... on OP's terms, i..e, work from home.
Yes, this. I'm not going to telegraph my intentions early on this one. I'll do my best not to leave anyone hanging, but I'm not going to risk them replacing me before I vest.
You have enough money to quit today and are even contemplating it BUT are afraid of losing to vesting? Are you really ready (mentally speaking) to quit? I highly doubt you are but you know your situation better.

My point being you are in a enviable position of looking beyond just dollars and doing some good before quitting. Who knows? You may need more money in the future and your act of parting goodwill/grace might become what saves you at that point. ALWAYS keep your options open.
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
susan123
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by susan123 »

I would do it for $400k. I would use up all my PTO/Holidays/Floating holiday, or whatever time off you are entitled to during this 4 months, so that you minimize your number of days commuting to the office.

I will wait until the $400k hits my account and give my notice the second day. Do NOT give notice before the $ hits your account!

Then I will buy myself something super nice for sticking out the last 4 months! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Best of luck to you! :beer
srt7
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by srt7 »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:26 pm
rich126 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:11 pm If my math is right, that extra 4% of NW means your SWR drops from 1.5% to 1.44%. Of course I'm assuming NW = your savings that the SWR is coming from and that may be wrong.

For example:
1,000,000 -> 15,000 at 1.5%
4% boost = 40,000
New amount = 1,040,000 and 15K of that is 1.44%

If that is accurate, it seems pointless to stick around. Now of course if the numbers are 10X that, then sticking around for $400K is different than for $40K.
It's closer to $400 than $40...hence the "problem"
ah! At those numbers it gets ruthless. Ignore my previous advice and do your time if you want that money. You're swimming with sharks and they view any goodwill/grace as weakness.
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
susan123
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by susan123 »

OK. I would probably stick around 4 more months for $200k. :mrgreen:

$100K is a no. 1 year is a no.
susan123
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by susan123 »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:45 pm
an_asker wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:26 pm
srt7 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:03 pm [...]Additionally, I would let my manager know immediately about my intentions of leaving Dec. 31st. and ensure none of my colleagues are left hanging with work related support.[...]
Absolutely NOT!!!

OP has already made his/her intentions clear (here) of being available if it is a remote job. Don't need to risk getting let go rightaway by telling manager now. If company deems that OP is needed to prevent overburdening colleagues, they can offer him a contract or extend OP's employment ... on OP's terms, i..e, work from home.
Yes, this. I'm not going to telegraph my intentions early on this one. I'll do my best not to leave anyone hanging, but I'm not going to risk them replacing me before I vest.
This! Do not give notice until $ hits your account!
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LadyGeek
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by LadyGeek »

random_walker_77 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:35 pm ...Can you take an unpaid leave (or sabbatical)? Ask for 3 months off and see what happens? ...
:!: Caution - Taking an unpaid leave of absence will drop ALL of your benefits - life insurance, matching employer contributions, etc.. Yes, the company can legally do that.

I took a 30-day leave of absence just before I retired last year. Three weeks into the leave, my company let me know that COBRA kicked in. That was my only hint that everything was dropped. COBRA was the only reason my medical continued. At that point, I told them I'm not coming back.
Wiki To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
hahabye
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by hahabye »

[OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek] work the 4 months and then retire. Congrats on being in a position to do so!
Normchad
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Normchad »

The majority voice here is to stick it out. I’m really surprised by that, given that the OP could *double* their anticipated spending, and still be a super low 3% withdrawal rate.

Today I learned how easy it is to put somebody in golden handcuffs :)
jarjarM
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by jarjarM »

DW was facing the same situation early this year. The dollar amount was significant so after extensive discussion. She put in her resignation but the boss ask her to reconsider with an offer of 1 year leave of absence with full benefits. She's taking that to trial run retirement and time with the kiddo. Try ask first and see if there's an opportunity there. Either way, you'll be fine financially
Rex66
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Rex66 »

For sure I’d do 4 months
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TxAg
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by TxAg »

Sounds like you have enough to be perfectly comfortable and plenty of cushion.

You only get so much time with your kids before they grow up. I'd leave and wouldn't give it a second thought.
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Nestegg_User
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Nestegg_User »

OP

{exec sum: stay for the few months}

at only 44 (maybe 45 when you leave) you have 20 years to Medicare for health insurance.... $400k would certainly go a long way towards that need. Also, if you leave early in the new year... you've got enough for a maxed out SS year... don't know where you are relative to the second bend point but it would get you closer... so it would impact future SS (you and spouse)

As you mention that the value is after tax...and at that type of comp level I'm presuming Bay Area (since car was mentioned) or NY, so either would mean that half is lost to taxes I know for me it would be hard to pass up at that young age as it allows for some serious splurge at a time when you can presumably easily enjoy them. or it allows for some great gifting over the next years to kids that will further set them up.

From a w@rk perspective, I'd be trying to insure that your team is well set up for the transition (I know that I had fully completed everything for hand off when I left, with full documentation etc so any missteps weren't on me (and the knowledgeable ones knew that). I'd be more concerned if I was the principal engineer (or whatever) that might have been required to bid on an RFP or the like (It's clear that you aren't a C-suite since there would have been stipulations on departure (SEC requirements, etc)... as that might have a serious trickle down effect on those that you leave behind.

On a practical note: Jan 1, 2022 is a Saturday so it's likely that the following monday would be a holiday for you so that your first day in the next year is January 4th (late enough to insure that you clearly are over the finish line for vesting/payment). As a bonus, you might even either have December 31 off or leave early!! In that vein, I'd be having a very nice new year's :beer
The other thing, leaving in September doesn't gain you that much good weather versus January, just less driving in some bad weather (many areas are worse after January, as it's colder, although some areas have higher snow earlier... it's too cold to snow later...BTDT). Cruises and the like might be cheaper and less crowded on the shoulder season... think of a nice New Zealand or Australia trip :P

I'd be putting notice in, say Jan 5, and would have directed everything to the 401k for whatever paycheck you would get in that period...you'll already max out OASDI due to your payout so in that way it won't have any effect tax wise whatever you do.
dboeger1
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by dboeger1 »

I realize this is must mental accounting, but it's the kind of option people don't think of when they're in the heat of the moment. How about working the 4 months with the intention of blowing the extra money on a fancy family vacation or something? After all, it's clear you don't NEED the money itself, so the value of the extra money is probably clearer to you in terms of life experience. The practical difference between say 1.5% and 1.45% WR is not very intuitive to grasp, but let's say the 4 months gave you an extra $50k (just to throw a random number out there), then maybe telling your wife and kids to plan the $50k vacation of their dreams for 4 months from now when you retire early might put it in more tangible terms and get your family excited and on board for the additional slog. It might also reenergize you a bit going into your final months of work. It obviously doesn't have to be a vacation; it could be a big house renovation your wife has been wanting, seed money for an entrepreneurial endeavor, etc.
Dave55
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Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Dave55 »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:14 am My company has announced a full time return to office beginning September 1. For a variety of reasons, remote work has really suited me and my family's dynamic, and I'm thinking about retiring rather than go back full time into the office. From a retirement standpoint, I am not really concerned about the numbers (my spouse and I are both 44, and we have a projected WR of right around 1.5% right now).

The issue is golden handcuffs. If I walk away at the end of August, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. I could add another 4% to our current net worth if I worked through the end of the year, due to equity vesting and earning my '21 bonus (I'm reluctant to post the actual $ amount I would be foregoing just because I feel like it would bias the discussion).

Long story short, I don't feel like I need the extra money, but the practical side of me thinks that I would be a moron to pass it up over 4 months of work.

Any useful insights?
Any compelling reason to not stay the 4 months?

Dave
"Reality always wins, your only job is to get in touch with it." Wilfred Bion
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