How strong are my golden handcuffs

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
User avatar
cockersx3
Posts: 711
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:55 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by cockersx3 »

MAKsdad wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:48 am
cockersx3 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:04 pm
grkmec wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:30 am Seems like the risk of being summarily fired is remote. And even if you are fired, I assume it would be without cause, so don’t you immediately vest ? If not, you are thinking of walking anyway, so this isn’t a horrible outcome either.
That's actually a question I have on this, as I am going through the same questions myself. If they order you back and you don't go, do they handle it as a voluntary resignation or a termination? At my MegaCorp those two options are quite different from a financial perspective. Termination comes with severance, prorated RSU vesting, and prorated bonus awards. I think the amounts are more for people who are laid off vs people who are fired for cause, but even those let go with cause (at least in my MegaCorp) get something.
If I had an employee who refused to follow a directive I gave, I would fire them for cause (insubordination). Maybe I'm overly harsh on that, but I'm not going to assume I'd get a severance package if I just stopped showing up.

Also we never do prorated vesting for equity (public company, don't want to look like we're playing games with options) and I don't think we've ever done prorated bonuses.
Fine, but you would potentially be exposing yourself to a wrongful termination lawsuit. While I think that long-term you would likely win, it's not a slam dunk I think given the unprecedented nature of the rapid-switch to WFH.

Different MegaCorps will have different risk tolerance levels towards lawsuits. I would characterize my MegaCorp as very risk averse in that regard due to past cases that I know of, so it's possible that my company would pay a severance rather than expose themselves to the lawsuit risk.
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

My problem with the whole ultimatum thing is that I don't feel like it's appropriate for me to work remotely and then have my whole team working in the office every day. As I mentioned, I've been advocating for my team to have a hybrid work arrangement for years. I think it would be pretty awful, honestly, for me to force an ultimatum that allows me to WFH but not the rest of my team. I don't really think that's a good look at all.
McGowan
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:30 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by McGowan »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:14 am My company has announced a full time return to office beginning September 1. For a variety of reasons, remote work has really suited me and my family's dynamic, and I'm thinking about retiring rather than go back full time into the office. From a retirement standpoint, I am not really concerned about the numbers (my spouse and I are both 44, and we have a projected WR of right around 1.5% right now).

The issue is golden handcuffs. If I walk away at the end of August, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. I could add another 4% to our current net worth if I worked through the end of the year, due to equity vesting and earning my '21 bonus (I'm reluctant to post the actual $ amount I would be foregoing just because I feel like it would bias the discussion).

Long story short, I don't feel like I need the extra money, but the practical side of me thinks that I would be a moron to pass it up over 4 months of work.

Any useful insights?
Seriously, you can't suck it up for a few months? Really?

You may not feel you 'need' the money but you've paid virtually the whole price of acquiring this extra vesting in time. Putting in the extra months is like investing enough of your paycheck to get employers 401 matching. Kind of a no brainer isn't it?
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

McGowan wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:12 am
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:14 am My company has announced a full time return to office beginning September 1. For a variety of reasons, remote work has really suited me and my family's dynamic, and I'm thinking about retiring rather than go back full time into the office. From a retirement standpoint, I am not really concerned about the numbers (my spouse and I are both 44, and we have a projected WR of right around 1.5% right now).

The issue is golden handcuffs. If I walk away at the end of August, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. I could add another 4% to our current net worth if I worked through the end of the year, due to equity vesting and earning my '21 bonus (I'm reluctant to post the actual $ amount I would be foregoing just because I feel like it would bias the discussion).

Long story short, I don't feel like I need the extra money, but the practical side of me thinks that I would be a moron to pass it up over 4 months of work.

Any useful insights?
Seriously, you can't suck it up for a few months? Really?

You may not feel you 'need' the money but you've paid virtually the whole price of acquiring this extra vesting in time. Putting in the extra months is like investing enough of your paycheck to get employers 401 matching. Kind of a no brainer isn't it?
"Can" or "can't" isn't the issue. It's whether or not I want to. It would be far too easy to say "can't you just suck it up for one more year" and then poof, a decade is gone.
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 17158
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by TomatoTomahto »

McGowan wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:12 am Seriously, you can't suck it up for a few months? Really?

You may not feel you 'need' the money but you've paid virtually the whole price of acquiring this extra vesting in time. Putting in the extra months is like investing enough of your paycheck to get employers 401 matching. Kind of a no brainer isn't it?
Companies are not stupid; well, they often are, but they imitate non-stupid companies in their payment timing.

Employees who get a large portion of their compensation via deferred payments (cash, RSUs, whatever) have schedules when they get notified of compensation, when things vest, how long a notice they have to give, etc. Except for the rare occurrence where they fully vest (e.g., rule of 60 retirement), they are always partially vested in some portion of their compensation and will be leaving something on the table if they leave voluntarily. My wife gets a multiple of her (relatively low) salary in various deferred tranches, some with clawback provisions. I think that people who aren’t accustomed to this don’t understand how complicated it can be to decide when enough is enough.

So, while I believe OP can do 4 months standing on his head, it’s not necessarily something OP should do. It’s personal. I don’t walk in OP’s shoes; I don’t have OP’s colleagues and mentees.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Dopey
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:41 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Dopey »

Doesn’t seem like a dilemma. Seems like an issue every retiree would face.

“If I just work X longer, I could make Y more”

Do what you want. If I were 44 & had that SWR secured and I wasn’t that particularly passionate about what I was doing, I wouldn’t necessarily retire, but I’d certainly make a hard turn career wise.
an_asker
Posts: 4903
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by an_asker »

MAKsdad wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:42 am
jackholloway wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:32 am Many of the FAANGs have extended their voluntary WFH into October (Apple and Google to name two), so you may have even less time to wait.

Were I in that position, I would stick it out through the end of the year. If bonus season is in January, and you can get the full 401k match, that would also be in your interest. (It is probably not if that requires another 3-6 months).
Not a FAANG company, and we're not extending remote work (unless things get far worse). We're back fully starting 9/1, end of story.

Someone else asked what my wife thinks...she wants me to quit because my working from home has been a big help to her. But she wants me to stay for the four months (right?) because she's the frugal one between the two of us and she also understands how much we'd be passing on.
an_asker
Posts: 4903
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by an_asker »

dcabler wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:31 am
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:14 am My company has announced a full time return to office beginning September 1. For a variety of reasons, remote work has really suited me and my family's dynamic, and I'm thinking about retiring rather than go back full time into the office. From a retirement standpoint, I am not really concerned about the numbers (my spouse and I are both 44, and we have a projected WR of right around 1.5% right now).

The issue is golden handcuffs. If I walk away at the end of August, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. I could add another 4% to our current net worth if I worked through the end of the year, due to equity vesting and earning my '21 bonus (I'm reluctant to post the actual $ amount I would be foregoing just because I feel like it would bias the discussion).

Long story short, I don't feel like I need the extra money, but the practical side of me thinks that I would be a moron to pass it up over 4 months of work.

Any useful insights?
I'm currently in the middle of a similar calculation. Just turned 60 and have more than "enough". On the other hand, over the period from Feb through Jun of next year I have a number of RSU's vesting. In absolute dollar terms, the amount is impressive, even after taxes. On the other hand, based on the current stock price and the nature of the RSU's, this will add only 1-2% max to the size of our portfolio as it stands today. A little more when you include next year's 401K withholdings (I front end load) plus the amount I save every month into our taxable account. But we have new exec management at my employer and while change has been sorely needed for quite some time, given my relatively short runway, I'm just not seeing why I personally would need to be part of the stresses that accommodate the changes.

Cheers.
If you ask me, your scenario is indeed different from OP's. For one, you are already at an age where most folks (who have "enough" and even some who don't!!) would be retiring. For another, it does appear that your situation - pressure at workplace - has (maybe?) gotten worse with exec management changes.
an_asker
Posts: 4903
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by an_asker »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:39 pm
dcabler wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:25 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:40 am
dcabler wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:31 am I'm currently in the middle of a similar calculation. Just turned 60 and have more than "enough". On the other hand, over the period from Feb through Jun of next year I have a number of RSU's vesting. In absolute dollar terms, the amount is impressive, even after taxes. On the other hand, based on the current stock price and the nature of the RSU's, this will add only 1-2% max to the size of our portfolio as it stands today. A little more when you include next year's 401K withholdings (I front end load) plus the amount I save every month into our taxable account. But we have new exec management at my employer and while change has been sorely needed for quite some time, given my relatively short runway, I'm just not seeing why I personally would need to be part of the stresses that accommodate the changes.
It's the common refrain of the RSU compensated crowd; the handcuffs can chafe a bit when you're under stress. I am not one to recommend coasting, because it generally goes against the mindset of those who got themselves into handcuffs in the first place. However, if you're way in the lead it's okay to coast a bit towards the finish line; don't hit the brakes but don't pedal as fast as you can. The stress associated with management change can be interesting to watch if your attitude is more "let's make some popcorn and see how this movie ends" rather than "oh no, the idiot board made BoBo the CEO; it's going to be hell to work here." And, you never know, but management change sometimes means packages that vest RSUs right away. :sharebeer
If I were an individual contributor like I was 20 years ago then there would be a certain appeal to coasting. Unfortunately I'm one of the actors in the movie, if you get my drift.
Maybe coasting was the wrong term to use. But, if you’re an actor with lines and the script is in the midst of a rewrite, it might turn out well to ride it out.
A better phrase would be "stay the course (through end of the year)"!
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

an_asker wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:41 am
MAKsdad wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:42 am
jackholloway wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:32 am Many of the FAANGs have extended their voluntary WFH into October (Apple and Google to name two), so you may have even less time to wait.

Were I in that position, I would stick it out through the end of the year. If bonus season is in January, and you can get the full 401k match, that would also be in your interest. (It is probably not if that requires another 3-6 months).
Not a FAANG company, and we're not extending remote work (unless things get far worse). We're back fully starting 9/1, end of story.

Someone else asked what my wife thinks...she wants me to quit because my working from home has been a big help to her. But she wants me to stay for the four months (right?) because she's the frugal one between the two of us and she also understands how much we'd be passing on.
Yes, re: your question in red. We're set on quitting in Jan next year at the latest.
tjtv
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:08 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by tjtv »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:35 am
Companies are not stupid; well, they often are, but they imitate non-stupid companies in their payment timing.

Employees who get a large portion of their compensation via deferred payments (cash, RSUs, whatever) have schedules when they get notified of compensation, when things vest, how long a notice they have to give, etc.
Companies have definitely gotten smarter recently. I've seen that they tend not to want 100% of everyone's deferred compensation coming due at the same time anymore, because they know it's a break point that causes many people to leave around that timeframe. That can be a very disruptive event. Companies have been changing the timing of the bonus payment relative to equity vesting so that they don't line up. Many companies are also moving to quarterly or even monthly equity vesting for similar reasons.
User avatar
drumboy256
Posts: 673
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 2:21 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by drumboy256 »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:14 am My company has announced a full time return to office beginning September 1. For a variety of reasons, remote work has really suited me and my family's dynamic, and I'm thinking about retiring rather than go back full time into the office. From a retirement standpoint, I am not really concerned about the numbers (my spouse and I are both 44, and we have a projected WR of right around 1.5% right now).

The issue is golden handcuffs. If I walk away at the end of August, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. I could add another 4% to our current net worth if I worked through the end of the year, due to equity vesting and earning my '21 bonus (I'm reluctant to post the actual $ amount I would be foregoing just because I feel like it would bias the discussion).

Long story short, I don't feel like I need the extra money, but the practical side of me thinks that I would be a moron to pass it up over 4 months of work.

Any useful insights?
Companies thinking they have handcuffs on a person is laughable at this point. Until you get a CAP, verbal, written or all of the above to improve your performance for disciplinary actions of NOT returning to the office, your manager, boss or management can't really do anything. If you bluntly state you're not coming back to the office and aren't budging, the company will probably just terminate you on the spot and say have a nice life. If it were me, I would talk to your boss/manager etc. and work out a plan for whatever a remote/hybrid solution looks like for you. Chances are, HR is still working on 2019 cases because of COVID, I would venture if the effort of drafting up a plan is REALLY that difficult at your company (spoiler alert, it shouldn't be) then the chances are high of your boss/manager saying "just work remote".

My 2 cents.
Promise is one thing. Fulfilling that promise is quite another. - Sir Alex Ferguson | 20% IVV / 40% IBIT / 20% IXUS / 20% VGLT + chill
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

drumboy256 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:59 am
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:14 am My company has announced a full time return to office beginning September 1. For a variety of reasons, remote work has really suited me and my family's dynamic, and I'm thinking about retiring rather than go back full time into the office. From a retirement standpoint, I am not really concerned about the numbers (my spouse and I are both 44, and we have a projected WR of right around 1.5% right now).

The issue is golden handcuffs. If I walk away at the end of August, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. I could add another 4% to our current net worth if I worked through the end of the year, due to equity vesting and earning my '21 bonus (I'm reluctant to post the actual $ amount I would be foregoing just because I feel like it would bias the discussion).

Long story short, I don't feel like I need the extra money, but the practical side of me thinks that I would be a moron to pass it up over 4 months of work.

Any useful insights?
Companies thinking they have handcuffs on a person is laughable at this point. Until you get a CAP, verbal, written or all of the above to improve your performance for disciplinary actions of NOT returning to the office, your manager, boss or management can't really do anything. If you bluntly state you're not coming back to the office and aren't budging, the company will probably just terminate you on the spot and say have a nice life. If it were me, I would talk to your boss/manager etc. and work out a plan for whatever a remote/hybrid solution looks like for you. Chances are, HR is still working on 2019 cases because of COVID, I would venture if the effort of drafting up a plan is REALLY that difficult at your company (spoiler alert, it shouldn't be) then the chances are high of your boss/manager saying "just work remote".

My 2 cents.
My boss is the CFO, and he is one of the main champions for the "we must be in the office 5 days a week" policy. There is no chance he'd agree to a hybrid for me. Even if the company changed gears and switched to a hybrid model, it would only apply to lower level (non-management) employees (i.e., not me).
User avatar
TomatoTomahto
Posts: 17158
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by TomatoTomahto »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:08 am My boss is the CFO, and he is one of the main champions for the "we must be in the office 5 days a week" policy. There is no chance he'd agree to a hybrid for me. Even if the company changed gears and switched to a hybrid model, it would only apply to lower level (non-management) employees (i.e., not me).
DW is in a not dissimilar situation, but things in the ivory tower are starting to be rethought. The Delta variant is formidable.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:12 am
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:08 am My boss is the CFO, and he is one of the main champions for the "we must be in the office 5 days a week" policy. There is no chance he'd agree to a hybrid for me. Even if the company changed gears and switched to a hybrid model, it would only apply to lower level (non-management) employees (i.e., not me).
DW is in a not dissimilar situation, but things in the ivory tower are starting to be rethought. The Delta variant is formidable.
It feels inherently horrible to be optimistic because of this.
ymmt
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:59 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by ymmt »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:14 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:12 am
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:08 am My boss is the CFO, and he is one of the main champions for the "we must be in the office 5 days a week" policy. There is no chance he'd agree to a hybrid for me. Even if the company changed gears and switched to a hybrid model, it would only apply to lower level (non-management) employees (i.e., not me).
DW is in a not dissimilar situation, but things in the ivory tower are starting to be rethought. The Delta variant is formidable.
It feels inherently horrible to be optimistic because of this.
Think companies are worried about forcing people back into the office when the delta is clearly rampaging through vaccinated/unvaccinated alike. The case for remaining WFH is getting stronger by the day.
Independent George
Posts: 1592
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:13 am
Location: Chicago, IL, USA

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Independent George »

Just one more thought: if you already had that money in hand, would you write a check to your employer to quit tomorrow instead of January? Obviously there's some discount rate to apply for uncertainty, but not very much for four months (closer to three months when you consider three weeks of vacation and holidays).

Most people would probably answer 'no', but you've already attained FI; it's not an academic point for you.
Chadnudj
Posts: 1269
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:22 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Chadnudj »

MAKsdad wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:42 am
jackholloway wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:32 am Many of the FAANGs have extended their voluntary WFH into October (Apple and Google to name two), so you may have even less time to wait.

Were I in that position, I would stick it out through the end of the year. If bonus season is in January, and you can get the full 401k match, that would also be in your interest. (It is probably not if that requires another 3-6 months).
Not a FAANG company, and we're not extending remote work (unless things get far worse). We're back fully starting 9/1, end of story.

Someone else asked what my wife thinks...she wants me to quit because my working from home has been a big help to her. But she wants me to stay because she's the frugal one between the two of us and she also understands how much we'd be passing on.
Well, here's another way to look at it:

It seems your wife has enjoyed having you home to help out.
But you going to work for 4 months (minus holidays/3 weeks of already scheduled vacation) would allow you to increase your (already impressive, given 1.5% planned WR) net worth by 4%.

Is it possible you could HIRE someone for those 4 months to help make your wife's life easier? I'd have to imagine that would be way less costly than 4% of your net worth, and may allow both of you to come out ahead.

Even if it was paying for 4 months of a meal service, or housekeeping, or babysitting/au pair, or [insert whatever significant at home needs you currently fill that would be gone for the 4 months of you working] or all of the above, I'd have to imagine you'd come out ahead.
J295
Posts: 3401
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:40 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by J295 »

MAKsdad wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:40 am My problem with the whole ultimatum thing is that I don't feel like it's appropriate for me to work remotely and then have my whole team working in the office every day….
There’s a word for this. It’s called “honorable.”
bltn
Posts: 1844
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by bltn »

I haven t read all the comments, but I keep coming back to this thread.

I still haven t changed my recommendation to work the last 4 months for a 4% increase in net worth.

In your position, considering all the discussion, I might play a game with that last 4%. I would put it into a Roth account, separate from any other accounts I have. I would invest it in a total stock market fund. I wouldn't t ever add anything to that particular account after this initial investment. And I would watch it for the next 20 years. Then I would reach my final conclusion about whether it was wise to work the last 4 months of this job.
bltn
Posts: 1844
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by bltn »

J295 wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:10 pm
MAKsdad wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:40 am My problem with the whole ultimatum thing is that I don't feel like it's appropriate for me to work remotely and then have my whole team working in the office every day….
There’s a word for this. It’s called “honorable.”
I agree.
Chadnudj
Posts: 1269
Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:22 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Chadnudj »

I was really hoping for an update from the OP here....and I still think hiring help around the house for OP's spouse while putting in the extra 4 months is a very doable/wise approach.
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

I'm still reading (and re-reading).

We've decided not to quit (yet), and to go back and see how the 5-day in office schedule feels in reality. If it's awful, then I can resign in mid-September. If/when I resign, I have every intention of working out my notice period remotely, as opposed to in the office. If it turns out that it's not so bad, then I work out the rest of the year and end it in January.

Definitely also going to look into some hired help for the next few months, although COVID makes it less appealing to bring strangers into the home. We're also having fun playing the "how are we going to use the money" game.

Thanks to all who responded...I'll post relevant updates as things move on.
random_walker_77
Posts: 2212
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by random_walker_77 »

Sounds good. If you go long, depending on how you feel in November, you might consider reading this thread for thoughts on tactical benefits to retiring in certain months:
viewtopic.php?t=351421

As an example, given low marginal tax rates on the first $20K you earn in a given year, especially if making maximum contributions to retirement accounts, you might decide it's worth it to hold out until March 1st, for example.
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

random_walker_77 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:07 pm Sounds good. If you go long, depending on how you feel in November, you might consider reading this thread for thoughts on tactical benefits to retiring in certain months:
viewtopic.php?t=351421

As an example, given low marginal tax rates on the first $20K you earn in a given year, especially if making maximum contributions to retirement accounts, you might decide it's worth it to hold out until March 1st, for example.
I appreciate the advice, but saving on taxes and adding to retirement accounts at this point is definitely NOT worth working even one more day.
an_asker
Posts: 4903
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by an_asker »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:27 am
random_walker_77 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:07 pm Sounds good. If you go long, depending on how you feel in November, you might consider reading this thread for thoughts on tactical benefits to retiring in certain months:
viewtopic.php?t=351421

As an example, given low marginal tax rates on the first $20K you earn in a given year, especially if making maximum contributions to retirement accounts, you might decide it's worth it to hold out until March 1st, for example.
I appreciate the advice, but saving on taxes and adding to retirement accounts at this point is definitely NOT worth working even one more day.
We are in September... and I am curious. Many companies extended WFH policies. Was yours one of them, OP?
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

an_asker wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:45 am
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:27 am
random_walker_77 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:07 pm Sounds good. If you go long, depending on how you feel in November, you might consider reading this thread for thoughts on tactical benefits to retiring in certain months:
viewtopic.php?t=351421

As an example, given low marginal tax rates on the first $20K you earn in a given year, especially if making maximum contributions to retirement accounts, you might decide it's worth it to hold out until March 1st, for example.
I appreciate the advice, but saving on taxes and adding to retirement accounts at this point is definitely NOT worth working even one more day.
We are in September... and I am curious. Many companies extended WFH policies. Was yours one of them, OP?
Nope, we started back on 9/1. I was on vacation last week so tomorrow is my first day in.
bltn
Posts: 1844
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by bltn »

With the end in sight and so close, time will fly.
an_asker
Posts: 4903
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by an_asker »

MAKsdad wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:43 am
an_asker wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:45 am [...]
We are in September... and I am curious. Many companies extended WFH policies. Was yours one of them, OP?
Nope, we started back on 9/1. I was on vacation last week so tomorrow is my first day in.
SMH re: employer. But good decision (yours), I think :sharebeer
SQRT
Posts: 1792
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:44 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by SQRT »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:27 am
random_walker_77 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:07 pm Sounds good. If you go long, depending on how you feel in November, you might consider reading this thread for thoughts on tactical benefits to retiring in certain months:
viewtopic.php?t=351421

As an example, given low marginal tax rates on the first $20K you earn in a given year, especially if making maximum contributions to retirement accounts, you might decide it's worth it to hold out until March 1st, for example.
I appreciate the advice, but saving on taxes and adding to retirement accounts at this point is definitely NOT worth working even one more day.
So you’ve made your decision? Hope this thread helped. Good luck.

I’ve been retired for about 15 years and faced a similar decision. The last few years of working my net worth increased about 10% per year due to incentive comp awards vesting, etc. It was difficult to retire. If the increases had been more like 5% if would have been easier. In your case 4% for 4 months is pretty significant.

Also, you have mentioned that you would want to leave “honourably” and I think this is important. You will have a long time to rethink this whole episode in your life. Better if you don’t have any thoughts of “not doing the honorable thing”. Take the high road with your staff.
Last edited by SQRT on Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

SQRT wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:58 am
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:27 am
random_walker_77 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:07 pm Sounds good. If you go long, depending on how you feel in November, you might consider reading this thread for thoughts on tactical benefits to retiring in certain months:
viewtopic.php?t=351421

As an example, given low marginal tax rates on the first $20K you earn in a given year, especially if making maximum contributions to retirement accounts, you might decide it's worth it to hold out until March 1st, for example.
I appreciate the advice, but saving on taxes and adding to retirement accounts at this point is definitely NOT worth working even one more day.
So you’ve made your decision? Hope this thread helped. Good luck.
Yes, I made my decision and I type this message from my office. I'm not happy being here, but in the long run 4 months (71 days in the office, to be specific) isn't a heavy lift.

This has been a great thread and definitely helped. I will update this when I give my boss notice on Jan. 3.
investnoob
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:57 am
Location: Ottawa
Contact:

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by investnoob »

Interesting thread. I read pretty much the whole thing.

I see that you are in the office. What would have influenced my decision is the vaccination policies of the office, how vulnerable (if) my family would be to the virus, and how well my company helped me manage those risks.

If I felt like they managed it well, I would probably stay. If I felt that they didn't, I likely would have left.
Reamus294
Posts: 265
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:54 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Reamus294 »

Not that you need any more answers, but I would have also have stayed. I can put up with a lot while still keeping a smile, knowing I won’t be there in 4 months.
Congrats with all of the other good decisions that were made to get you to this point.
EventHorizon
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:54 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by EventHorizon »

My friend, if you don't love the work, your boss and your coworkers, then the handcuffs are not golden.
They are kryptonite.
You get weaker the longer you wear them.

So the real question is not how strong are the handcuffs, but
how strong are your arms, Superman?
eagleeyes
Posts: 359
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:49 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by eagleeyes »

EventHorizon wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:28 pm My friend, if you don't love the work, your boss and your coworkers, then the handcuffs are not golden.
They are kryptonite.
You get weaker the longer you wear them.

So the real question is not how strong are the handcuffs, but
how strong are your arms, Superman?

Well put event horizon!!
eagleeyes
Posts: 359
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:49 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by eagleeyes »

EventHorizon wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:28 pm My friend, if you don't love the work, your boss and your coworkers, then the handcuffs are not golden.
They are kryptonite.
You get weaker the longer you wear them.

So the real question is not how strong are the handcuffs, but
how strong are your arms, Superman?

Well put event horizon!!
bltn
Posts: 1844
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by bltn »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:03 am
SQRT wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:58 am
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:27 am
random_walker_77 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:07 pm Sounds good. If you go long, depending on how you feel in November, you might consider reading this thread for thoughts on tactical benefits to retiring in certain months:
viewtopic.php?t=351421

As an example, given low marginal tax rates on the first $20K you earn in a given year, especially if making maximum contributions to retirement accounts, you might decide it's worth it to hold out until March 1st, for example.
I appreciate the advice, but saving on taxes and adding to retirement accounts at this point is definitely NOT worth working even one more day.
So you’ve made your decision? Hope this thread helped. Good luck.
Yes, I made my decision and I type this message from my office. I'm not happy being here, but in the long run 4 months (71 days in the office, to be specific) isn't a heavy lift.

This has been a great thread and definitely helped. I will update this when I give my boss notice on Jan. 3.
This forum is a great resource for opinions. The suggestions for dealing with most problems are never unanimous, but the consensus is almost always right.
Good luck with your new career.
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

bltn wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:30 pm
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:03 am
SQRT wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:58 am
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:27 am
random_walker_77 wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:07 pm Sounds good. If you go long, depending on how you feel in November, you might consider reading this thread for thoughts on tactical benefits to retiring in certain months:
viewtopic.php?t=351421

As an example, given low marginal tax rates on the first $20K you earn in a given year, especially if making maximum contributions to retirement accounts, you might decide it's worth it to hold out until March 1st, for example.
I appreciate the advice, but saving on taxes and adding to retirement accounts at this point is definitely NOT worth working even one more day.
So you’ve made your decision? Hope this thread helped. Good luck.
Yes, I made my decision and I type this message from my office. I'm not happy being here, but in the long run 4 months (71 days in the office, to be specific) isn't a heavy lift.

This has been a great thread and definitely helped. I will update this when I give my boss notice on Jan. 3.
This forum is a great resource for opinions. The suggestions for dealing with most problems are never unanimous, but the consensus is almost always right.
Good luck with your new career.
My new "career" as a retired person you mean!
bltn
Posts: 1844
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by bltn »

MAKsdad wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:05 am
bltn wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:30 pm
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:03 am
SQRT wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:58 am
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:27 am

I appreciate the advice, but saving on taxes and adding to retirement accounts at this point is definitely NOT worth working even one more day.
So you’ve made your decision? Hope this thread helped. Good luck.
Yes, I made my decision and I type this message from my office. I'm not happy being here, but in the long run 4 months (71 days in the office, to be specific) isn't a heavy lift.

This has been a great thread and definitely helped. I will update this when I give my boss notice on Jan. 3.
This forum is a great resource for opinions. The suggestions for dealing with most problems are never unanimous, but the consensus is almost always right.
Good luck with your new career.
My new "career" as a retired person you mean!
Or maybe your new job as as a part time worker or consultant doing something you really like. Or maybe the owner of a franchise where you pay a manager do do the majority of the work. You will have financial security to choose what ever work you like. In case boredom develops.
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

bltn wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:25 am
MAKsdad wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:05 am
bltn wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:30 pm
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:03 am
SQRT wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:58 am
So you’ve made your decision? Hope this thread helped. Good luck.
Yes, I made my decision and I type this message from my office. I'm not happy being here, but in the long run 4 months (71 days in the office, to be specific) isn't a heavy lift.

This has been a great thread and definitely helped. I will update this when I give my boss notice on Jan. 3.
This forum is a great resource for opinions. The suggestions for dealing with most problems are never unanimous, but the consensus is almost always right.
Good luck with your new career.
My new "career" as a retired person you mean!
Or maybe your new job as as a part time worker or consultant doing something you really like. Or maybe the owner of a franchise where you pay a manager do do the majority of the work. You will have financial security to choose what ever work you like. In case boredom develops.
I've never been bored except at work. There is no job in the world that I would "really like".
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

Two months down, two to go. I've come to the conclusion that I like my job better when I'm working from the office, but I like my life better when I'm able to work from home. All in all, I am not unhappy with the decision I made to return, although there are plenty of days I feel a twinge of regret. Only 36 more days in the office until I give notice.
yoga
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:13 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by yoga »

MAKsdad wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:28 am Two months down, two to go. I've come to the conclusion that I like my job better when I'm working from the office, but I like my life better when I'm able to work from home. All in all, I am not unhappy with the decision I made to return, although there are plenty of days I feel a twinge of regret. Only 36 more days in the office until I give notice.
That feeling makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks for continuing to update.
an_asker
Posts: 4903
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by an_asker »

MAKsdad wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 9:28 am Two months down, two to go. I've come to the conclusion that I like my job better when I'm working from the office, but I like my life better when I'm able to work from home. All in all, I am not unhappy with the decision I made to return, although there are plenty of days I feel a twinge of regret. Only 36 more days in the office until I give notice.
LOL. This is absolutely true (for almost everyone, I would think).

F2F I quit for the day when I leave work. Now, I find myself logged in late more often. But I like challenging stuff to work on, so I do like it. But life is definitely better when I can work from home.

Nice to know that you are almost there (three months down, only one to go now!).

Just be prepared to "just say no" to diamond handcuffs ;-)
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15122
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by anon_investor »

an_asker wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:37 pm Just be prepared to "just say no" to diamond handcuffs ;-)
LOL :P

The OP might just have to start a new thread if that happens!
gogreen
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:38 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by gogreen »

MAKsdad wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:48 am
cockersx3 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:04 pm
grkmec wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:30 am Seems like the risk of being summarily fired is remote. And even if you are fired, I assume it would be without cause, so don’t you immediately vest ? If not, you are thinking of walking anyway, so this isn’t a horrible outcome either.
That's actually a question I have on this, as I am going through the same questions myself. If they order you back and you don't go, do they handle it as a voluntary resignation or a termination? At my MegaCorp those two options are quite different from a financial perspective. Termination comes with severance, prorated RSU vesting, and prorated bonus awards. I think the amounts are more for people who are laid off vs people who are fired for cause, but even those let go with cause (at least in my MegaCorp) get something.
If I had an employee who refused to follow a directive I gave, I would fire them for cause (insubordination).
Lolwhat :mrgreen: Are you sure you won't be the first to be kicked out after a complain to HR :confused
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

anon_investor wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:54 pm
an_asker wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:37 pm Just be prepared to "just say no" to diamond handcuffs ;-)
LOL :P

The OP might just have to start a new thread if that happens!
No new thread will be needed...14 days in the office and counting until I give notice.
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15122
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by anon_investor »

MAKsdad wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:07 am
anon_investor wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:54 pm
an_asker wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:37 pm Just be prepared to "just say no" to diamond handcuffs ;-)
LOL :P

The OP might just have to start a new thread if that happens!
No new thread will be needed...14 days in the office and counting until I give notice.
Good luck! If they try to offer you diamond handcuffs will you turn them down regardless of the amount?
Somethingwitty92912
Posts: 490
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:43 pm

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by Somethingwitty92912 »

MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:14 am My company has announced a full time return to office beginning September 1. For a variety of reasons, remote work has really suited me and my family's dynamic, and I'm thinking about retiring rather than go back full time into the office. From a retirement standpoint, I am not really concerned about the numbers (my spouse and I are both 44, and we have a projected WR of right around 1.5% right now).

The issue is golden handcuffs. If I walk away at the end of August, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. I could add another 4% to our current net worth if I worked through the end of the year, due to equity vesting and earning my '21 bonus (I'm reluctant to post the actual $ amount I would be foregoing just because I feel like it would bias the discussion).

Long story short, I don't feel like I need the extra money, but the practical side of me thinks that I would be a moron to pass it up over 4 months of work.

Any useful insights?
What about the four months after that? What if it was doubled? How about just one more year? There is always more money, there is precious little time.
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

anon_investor wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:59 am
MAKsdad wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:07 am
anon_investor wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:54 pm
an_asker wrote: Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:37 pm Just be prepared to "just say no" to diamond handcuffs ;-)
LOL :P

The OP might just have to start a new thread if that happens!
No new thread will be needed...14 days in the office and counting until I give notice.
Good luck! If they try to offer you diamond handcuffs will you turn them down regardless of the amount?
There's nothing they would reasonably/realistically offer that would make me stay.
Topic Author
MAKsdad
Posts: 366
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:43 am

Re: How strong are my golden handcuffs

Post by MAKsdad »

Somethingwitty92912 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:05 am
MAKsdad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:14 am My company has announced a full time return to office beginning September 1. For a variety of reasons, remote work has really suited me and my family's dynamic, and I'm thinking about retiring rather than go back full time into the office. From a retirement standpoint, I am not really concerned about the numbers (my spouse and I are both 44, and we have a projected WR of right around 1.5% right now).

The issue is golden handcuffs. If I walk away at the end of August, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. I could add another 4% to our current net worth if I worked through the end of the year, due to equity vesting and earning my '21 bonus (I'm reluctant to post the actual $ amount I would be foregoing just because I feel like it would bias the discussion).

Long story short, I don't feel like I need the extra money, but the practical side of me thinks that I would be a moron to pass it up over 4 months of work.

Any useful insights?
What about the four months after that? What if it was doubled? How about just one more year? There is always more money, there is precious little time.
Honestly, I think the four month timeframe worked out reasonably well for me. It was short enough to be doable without too much stress or annoyance, but long enough to make me 100% sure that I don't want to continue once the new year hits. No regrets staying for the 4 months, but not hesitation in terms of leaving in '22.
Post Reply