SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

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Goodman60
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SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by Goodman60 »

My father died in early June in Florida. He was 86 and my mother is 85 and they were married 65 years. She receives Social Security on her own work record because her benefit is (a little) greater than half of his. I assisted my mother in applying for her surviving spouse benefit. Because she was not receiving benefits on his account, the Social Security office in Florida requested a certified copy of their marriage license, which I had gotten in 2013 here in Pennsylvania. Mom and dad were married in Allegheny County (Pittsburgh area), where I still live, in 1956. They lived here until retiring to Fl about 20 years ago.

I sent the requested document directly to the representative with whom we spoke on the phone, as per her instructions, to the SS office in West Palm Beach Florida. Shortly after, Social Security paid the $255 death benefit, but rejected her survivor benefit because the rep thought that the marriage license we sent was not certified (she missed the raised seal).

In meantime, mom moved back to Pennsylvania, temporarily living with me. She just arrived today. Because she is mentally OK but not spectacularly sharp, I had to wait until she got here, with the mail that she received, to figure out what happened.

I understand there is a "Request for Reconsideration" Form SSA-561-U2. My concern is twofold:

1. What if the next rep thinks the marriage license is not an original certified copy? I do plan to get an updated new certified copy from Allegheny County next week, to submit.

2. It says to mail to the local office. Is that Florida (she isn't there anymore, but is where the original claim was started and rejected) or here in Pennsylvania? Truthfully I'd rather it be Pennsylvania because we are both here now AND BECAUSE THEY WILL BE FAMILIAR with Allegheny County certified copies of marriage license documents. Whereas the rep in Palm Beach County, Florida, thought it wasn't certified. But must I continue with the Florida rep since we started there?

3. Does SS accept walk ins (or not, due to Covid) and might this be a better way to handle this?

What's the best way for me to get this resolved? Now that mom is here, I can take her to an SS office or have her with me on the speakerphone. I'd actually prefer to take her to a SS office with the document and look someone in the eye to get this resolved.

As an aside, I'd like to get full authorization to handle any and all future SS matters for her. She's ready, willing and able to grant such authority. At age 85, this is probably a good thing for me to have. What's the procedure to do this?

Thank you so much in advance for help figuring out how to handle this minor but annoying problem.
Last edited by Goodman60 on Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ResearchMed
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by ResearchMed »

Did you explain that the relevant state doesn't use 'raised seal' certified copies?

We had this situation once, in a court hearing, and on the other side, a "real attorney" waited until we had discussed some things, and when it was his turn, it became obvious that they had sent someone totally unprepared, because he stood up and chortled, 'That isn't a certified copy of <document> and [basically that they automatically won]". His reasoning was entirely based upon the lack of a raised seal.

Ha. The Court determined that our copy was indeed certified, the opposing counsel stammered, and the Court found in our favor. Full Stop.

Just because some attorney or agency doesn't initially realize that what they are looking at IS a certified copy, that shouldn't mean you 'lose'.
IANAL, obviously, and some real legal eagles may have more definitive comments about how to handle this.

RM
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Leesbro63
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by Leesbro63 »

Are the Social Security offices open for walk-ins like before Covid?
Last edited by Leesbro63 on Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Eagle33
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by Eagle33 »

Have you helped her change her address on her SS online account?
littlebird
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by littlebird »

If you hit a wall, your Congressperson’s office will help.
Katietsu
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by Katietsu »

I do not believe the form you referenced is relevant for your situation.

I would try to reach your local office by phone. I had no trouble reaching mine though others have reported significant problems. I doubt that walk ins are accepted. Some offices had started appts for special circumstances. But I doubt this qualifies since it can be taken care of easily by mail.
pasadena
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by pasadena »

Did you speak with the SS rep who made the mistake? Maybe this is as simple as a phone call?
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celia
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by celia »

I would start over using a local office. Inform them she is now living with you. I don’t know if they ‘need’ to transfer her records to your area or not, but that may be irrevelant for your questions.

I think the old office is wrong in requesting a marriage license (a form that shows you applied to get married). I would think they would want a marriage certificate (proof that the marriage took place), because the spousal benefit only applies to a spouse, not a former fiancée.

As a genealogist, I’ve requested PA marriage certificates, but sometimes they’ve sent the licence. (A license is usually good for only 1 or 2 months, then if you aren’t married, you would have to request (and pay for) another one.) I don’t recall if the marriage certificate for PA is on the same page as the license or not. But if it is not signed by both spouses, the person marrying them, and witnesses AND returned to the department that records and archives the record, the marriage is not recorded as having taken place. I’m in no way suggesting this happened to your parents, but it appears to have happened to some of our ancestors long ago.
Topic Author
Goodman60
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by Goodman60 »

Katietsu wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:49 pm I do not believe the form you referenced is relevant for your situation.

I would try to reach your local office by phone. I had no trouble reaching mine though others have reported significant problems. I doubt that walk ins are accepted. Some offices had started appts for special circumstances. But I doubt this qualifies since it can be taken care of easily by mail.
The letter she received said to use that form. How do I reach my local office by phone? They did give the Florida local office number for a call back after we got started. How do I reach the Pittsburgh office by phone?
Topic Author
Goodman60
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by Goodman60 »

Eagle33 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:52 pm Have you helped her change her address on her SS online account?
I didn't know this was a thing. I'll look into it immediately. Thank you.
humblecoder
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by humblecoder »

Goodman60 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:15 pm 1. What if the next rep thinks the marriage license is not an original certified copy? I do plan to get an updated new certified copy from Allegheny County next week, to submit.
Find another rep. Seriously.

Not exactly the same situation but similar....

When we moved, my wife needed to get a new Driver's License for our new state of residence. She went to the DMV with all of the required paperwork, including her birth certificate and marriage license (since she had taken my name as her married name). The DMV person rejected marriage license since it was signed by a religious official. The state we were married in asked for both the name of the officiant and his/her "title" so our officiant wrote his religious title in the title field. The DMV person said that the marriage license needed to be a CIVIL license. My wife argued that this was a CIVIL license as it was issued by the state of X, but it just so happened that our marriage was officiated by a religious official (as are marriages for millions of people across that state and across the country). The DMV person dug her heels in and told my wife to return with a civil license.

My wife was so mad as you can imagine. She called me and asked what she should do. I told her to go to another DMV office about 10 miles away and see what they said. She went to the other office and they accepted her marriage license with no problem.

I haven't dealt with the SSA in awhile. I would suggest calling them and asking them your other questions (FL office vs PA office, etc), and maybe even see if you can make an in-person appointment. I know I would prefer dealing with somebody face-to-face on this item, if possible.
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HueyLD
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by HueyLD »

The Op asked: “As an aside, I'd like to get full authorization to handle any and all future SS matters for her. She's ready, willing and able to grant such authority. At age 85, this is probably a good thing for me to have. What's the procedure to do this?”

GN 03910.040 Appointment of a Representative

A. How To Appoint A Representative

To appoint a representative, our regulations in 20 CFR 404.1707 and 416.1507 require that:

• •
the claimant sign a written notice that identifies the individual and reflects the claimant's intent to be represented by that individual in dealings before us;

• •
the non-attorney representative sign the written notice reflecting his or her intent to accept the appointment (an attorney does not have to sign this written notice); and

• •
the written notice be filed at a field office (FO), a hearing office (HO), or with the Appeals Council (AC).


https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0203910040

Fill out form SSA-1696 https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-1696.pdf. Read the form instructions very carefully.
bsteiner
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by bsteiner »

celia wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:26 am ...

As a genealogist, I’ve requested PA marriage certificates, ....
Pennsylvania had common law marriage until 2005 so some people there don’t have them.
Katietsu
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by Katietsu »

humblecoder wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:32 am
When we moved, my wife needed to get a new Driver's License for our new state of residence. She went to the DMV with all of the required paperwork, including her birth certificate and marriage license (since she had taken my name as her married name). The DMV person rejected marriage license since it was signed by a religious official. The state we were married in asked for both the name of the officiant and his/her "title" so our officiant wrote his religious title in the title field. The DMV person said that the marriage license needed to be a CIVIL license. My wife argued that this was a CIVIL license as it was issued by the state of X, but it just so happened that our marriage was officiated by a religious official (as are marriages for millions of people across that state and across the country). The DMV person dug her heels in and told my wife to return with a civil license.

My wife was so mad as you can imagine. She called me and asked what she should do. I told her to go to another DMV office about 10 miles away and see what they said. She went to the other office and they accepted her marriage license with no problem.

I haven't dealt with the SSA in awhile. I would suggest calling them and asking them your other questions (FL office vs PA office, etc), and maybe even see if you can make an in-person appointment. I know I would prefer dealing with somebody face-to-face on this item, if possible.
I would recommend your wife consider going back to the county of your marriage and request a new copy of your marriage license. I had the copy I was given at the time of my marriage that was signed by the officiant. I used it successfully for a few things back in the day. But, it was not acceptable for obtaining Real ID. The license I use now has a signature only of the current official in charge of that branch of county government.
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celia
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by celia »

humblecoder wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:32 am My wife was so mad as you can imagine. She called me and asked what she should do. I told her to go to another DMV office about 10 miles away and see what they said. She went to the other office and they accepted her marriage license with no problem.
I would have suggested she speak with the supervisor. The clerk won’t learn unless it is brought to the attention of someone higher up.

I also think you meant to say Marriage CERTIFICATE (like when you talk about a Birth CERTIFICATE or Death CERTIFICATE). They are all vital records. The Marriage is the only one that has pre-requisites (like making sure you had a blood test, if still required, and are of age or have court approval).
HENRYGRUGER
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Re: SSA Survivors Benefit Appeal in July 2021

Post by HENRYGRUGER »

Goodman60 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:15 pm My father died in early June in Florida. He was 86 and my mother is 85 and they were married 65 years. She receives Social Security on her own work record because her benefit is (a little) greater than half of his. I assisted my mother in applying for her surviving spouse benefit. Because she was not receiving benefits on his account, the Social Security office in Florida requested a certified copy of their marriage license, which I had gotten in 2013 here in Pennsylvania. Mom and dad were married in Allegheny County (Pittsburgh area), where I still live, in 1956. They lived here until retiring to Fl about 20 years ago.

I sent the requested document directly to the representative with whom we spoke on the phone, as per her instructions, to the SS office in West Palm Beach Florida. Shortly after, Social Security paid the $255 death benefit, but rejected her survivor benefit because the rep thought that the marriage license we sent was not certified (she missed the raised seal).

In meantime, mom moved back to Pennsylvania, temporarily living with me. She just arrived today. Because she is mentally OK but not spectacularly sharp, I had to wait until she got here, with the mail that she received, to figure out what happened.

I understand there is a "Request for Reconsideration" Form SSA-561-U2. My concern is twofold:

1. What if the next rep thinks the marriage license is not an original certified copy? I do plan to get an updated new certified copy from Allegheny County next week, to submit.

2. It says to mail to the local office. Is that Florida (she isn't there anymore, but is where the original claim was started and rejected) or here in Pennsylvania? Truthfully I'd rather it be Pennsylvania because we are both here now AND BECAUSE THEY WILL BE FAMILIAR with Allegheny County certified copies of marriage license documents. Whereas the rep in Palm Beach County, Florida, thought it wasn't certified. But must I continue with the Florida rep since we started there?

3. Does SS accept walk ins (or not, due to Covid) and might this be a better way to handle this?

What's the best way for me to get this resolved? Now that mom is here, I can take her to an SS office or have her with me on the speakerphone. I'd actually prefer to take her to a SS office with the document and look someone in the eye to get this resolved.

As an aside, I'd like to get full authorization to handle any and all future SS matters for her. She's ready, willing and able to grant such authority. At age 85, this is probably a good thing for me to have. What's the procedure to do this?

Thank you so much in advance for help figuring out how to handle this minor but annoying problem.
Others have referenced how THEY think you should handle your situation, so you have plenty of feedback there.

The question about how to become your mother's representative is easier to answer. Simply go online to SSA.gov and request the documents to become her "Representative Payee." (That assume you can't get into a local office yet, due to Liberal Governor of PA still maintaining a semi lockdown.) That will give you full authority, and 100% responsibility, for your mothers benefits. You will be required to send in an accounting annually (a simple online process) and depending on other benefits received, a telephone review every few years.

I have been my younger sister's Representative Payee since 2013. I am also her Medical POA.

In that vein, while your mom is still in control of her faculties, NOW is the time to make sure her estate planning documents are in order. Will, Durable POA, Medical POA (different names in different states) etc. If and when you become responsible for her medical care and decision making, you will be glad you did. (Wife and I cared for my dad his last 6 years of his 93 years on Earth.)

Last I knew, PA has inheritance taxes, but does NOT tax 401ks, 403bs, or pensions. And unless their Governor has screwed it up, (he was trying to in 2020) the State Income tax is one of the lowest in the 50 states. (@3.07%)
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