Sudden new job opportunity/interview

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Topic Author
sippyCUP
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:54 pm

Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

Hi all, I lurk every week but post pretty rarely. I've had an interesting play of events this week regarding an employment option. Currently a federal employee conducting oversight at a Department of Energy facility - we basically hire a contractor to run a plant, then station federal employees to observe operations to ensure safety. I'm a nuclear engineer holding Bachelors and Masters degrees, been there 5 years.

Here are my vital stats:
  • 35 years old, single, no kids, no ex, other dependents, etc. No plans to change any time soon.
  • Earn 135k/year plus about 5k in bonus for about 140k from my job. Will top out around 170k in about 15 years. Another 4k tax-free from the VA per year, 10k in taxable dividends.
  • Low cost of living area, very uninterested in moving away! Rather visit urban areas than live there.
  • Generally work 40 hours a week. Compensated for any time over 40. High quality of life in my opinion.
  • Eligible for the FERS Federal pension, can retire and draw pension at 57 at around 65k/year in today's dollars. I calculated the present value being about $2M.
  • Annual expenses around 50k
  • 1.3M Vanguard portfolio with about 80-90% equity, the rest primarily in bond funds and REITs
  • Debt: About 150k on home loan for a house worth about $230k after recent appreciation
  • Truck is paid off, 2005 Nissan Frontier, good mechanical condition, no desire to upgrade

Regarding my values in life...I'm not flashy. I prefer value to ostentation. I would say food is my one financial vice (restaurants and I eat a lot of meat) but I food prep every week. I really don't ever want to stop working either, I just want the option to curtail my hours and/or the option to do consulting work in the next 15-20 years. I currently spend a lot of time working on my house, doing martial arts, doing photography, duck hunting during the season, socializing, etc. So I have a full "schedule" of hobbies that I enjoy.

On to the development. Last night, an old friend (who I helped get a job about 3 years ago but has since moved on) asked me if I wanted to apply to a management position at the local federal contractor he now works for. The office is just down the road from my current location. The position is in a related area to my current specialty. I have some solid experience in this related area, but I have never been an actual practitioner in this area. I went ahead & filled in my resume for the last 5 years, emailed him a 2-pager at 11pm last night. He couldn't guarantee consideration because the posting had technically expired.

In an interesting turn of events, I went to school with the guy he sent it in to. We were both top 5 in our class, and he put in a very generous word with the hiring manager. Long story short, I have an interview next week.

Here are the stats that I know of at this job:
  • Roughly 155-230k pay band
  • No pension, but a 401k with a match that seems about twice as generous as my current TSP match (roughly 9% match vs 5%)
  • Approximately 20 direct reports who write and maintain safety documentation. I currently have 0 direct reports, I am in more of a position of strong "soft influence" with my contractor counterparts. However, I spent 5 years as a naval officer, and I do exercise leadership within my circle of influence at the current job, including a very strong relationship with my supervisor.
  • My 2 contacts say it has a solid culture. I would be working with these 2 guys, they are currently managers there, they are high integrity and I don't think they're BSing me. I am told I will be busy during the week, but they maintain that they only work infrequently on the weekends. However, I am getting the vibe that I might not be able to claim as much comp time for hours over 40, need to get more detail.
  • Better opportunity to gain experience and connections leading to possibly lucrative ($200/hr) consulting work down the road on the 10-20 year horizon, or join senior management (not sure if the later is for me though personally).
  • Intangibles... in my current position, I am stuck in an old high security building without my cell phone. Feels like daycare sometimes. I'd be more in the "real world" again in the new role.

I would say my overall goal for employment is getting my "best bang for the buck" while making progress on becoming financially independent (say 2.5M portfolio). I am unwilling to work 80 hours a work, period, and I can't do 60 hours a week routinely (Navy burned me out). However, a higher salary could help me become financially independent sooner than my current trajectory. This weekend, I intend to complete a spreadsheet helping me to project and compare net worth apples to oranges (higher salary vs no pension).

The main intangibles I bring to the table are a knack for getting the right people involved with at the right times to solve problems (understanding of organizational fault lines as well as who is talented at what). I'm above average in proactive communication. I'm also reasonably adept at politics for an engineer, not my favorite though.

I'm an HBS reject - when I left the Navy, I interviewed at a number of great MBA schools with the intention of getting into management consulting. I guess I really didn't know what to say at the time because I didn't get into any of these schools! But what drew me to this field initially is that I really like the idea of showing organizations an outside perspective, helping them improve their operations, and getting to take on work in project-size chunks at my own pace. Obviously this job opportunity is not that, but I can't help but think it could bring me closer to a position of being able to freelance consult at some point.

I like my current job, but this is an opportunity I am taking seriously. Unfortunately my current group is resource-challenged right now (many new folks and I am training all of them) so it would be a rough blow for them if I left now. This could easily blacklist me from employment there for the next 5-10 years, and potentially damage my personal relationship with my supervisor. I will say I wouldn't be the first guy to leave them high & dry lately, however. But I certainly wouldn't relish this aspect of the opportunity.

Anyway, that's probably more than adequate... any thoughts?! Just looking for an outside perspective, I'm a little bit in shock right now.
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15122
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by anon_investor »

sippyCUP wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:17 pm Hi all, I lurk every week but post pretty rarely. I've had an interesting play of events this week regarding an employment option. Currently a federal employee conducting oversight at a Department of Energy facility - we basically hire a contractor to run a plant, then station federal employees to observe operations to ensure safety. I'm a nuclear engineer holding Bachelors and Masters degrees, been there 5 years.

Here are my vital stats:
  • 35 years old, single, no kids, no ex, other dependents, etc. No plans to change any time soon.
  • Earn 135k/year plus about 5k in bonus for about 140k from my job. Will top out around 170k in about 15 years. Another 4k tax-free from the VA per year, 10k in taxable dividends.
  • Low cost of living area, very uninterested in moving away! Rather visit urban areas than live there.
  • Generally work 40 hours a week. Compensated for any time over 40. High quality of life in my opinion.
  • Eligible for the FERS Federal pension, can retire and draw pension at 57 at around 65k/year in today's dollars. I calculated the present value being about $2M.
  • Annual expenses around 50k
  • 1.3M Vanguard portfolio with about 80-90% equity, the rest primarily in bond funds and REITs
  • Debt: About 150k on home loan for a house worth about $230k after recent appreciation
  • Truck is paid off, 2005 Nissan Frontier, good mechanical condition, no desire to upgrade

Regarding my values in life...I'm not flashy. I prefer value to ostentation. I would say food is my one financial vice (restaurants and I eat a lot of meat) but I food prep every week. I really don't ever want to stop working either, I just want the option to curtail my hours and/or the option to do consulting work in the next 15-20 years. I currently spend a lot of time working on my house, doing martial arts, doing photography, duck hunting during the season, socializing, etc. So I have a full "schedule" of hobbies that I enjoy.

On to the development. Last night, an old friend (who I helped get a job about 3 years ago but has since moved on) asked me if I wanted to apply to a management position at the local federal contractor he now works for. The office is just down the road from my current location. The position is in a related area to my current specialty. I have some solid experience in this related area, but I have never been an actual practitioner in this area. I went ahead & filled in my resume for the last 5 years, emailed him a 2-pager at 11pm last night. He couldn't guarantee consideration because the posting had technically expired.

In an interesting turn of events, I went to school with the guy he sent it in to. We were both top 5 in our class, and he put in a very generous word with the hiring manager. Long story short, I have an interview next week.

Here are the stats that I know of at this job:
  • Roughly 155-230k pay band
  • No pension, but a 401k with a match that seems about twice as generous as my current TSP match (roughly 9% match vs 5%)
  • Approximately 20 direct reports who write and maintain safety documentation. I currently have 0 direct reports, I am in more of a position of strong "soft influence" with my contractor counterparts. However, I spent 5 years as a naval officer, and I do exercise leadership within my circle of influence at the current job, including a very strong relationship with my supervisor.
  • My 2 contacts say it has a solid culture. I would be working with these 2 guys, they are currently managers there, they are high integrity and I don't think they're BSing me. I am told I will be busy during the week, but they maintain that they only work infrequently on the weekends. However, I am getting the vibe that I might not be able to claim as much comp time for hours over 40, need to get more detail.
  • Better opportunity to gain experience and connections leading to possibly lucrative ($200/hr) consulting work down the road on the 10-20 year horizon, or join senior management (not sure if the later is for me though personally).
  • Intangibles... in my current position, I am stuck in an old high security building without my cell phone. Feels like daycare sometimes. I'd be more in the "real world" again in the new role.

I would say my overall goal for employment is getting my "best bang for the buck" while making progress on becoming financially independent (say 2.5M portfolio). I am unwilling to work 80 hours a work, period, and I can't do 60 hours a week routinely (Navy burned me out). However, a higher salary could help me become financially independent sooner than my current trajectory. This weekend, I intend to complete a spreadsheet helping me to project and compare net worth apples to oranges (higher salary vs no pension).

The main intangibles I bring to the table are a knack for getting the right people involved with at the right times to solve problems (understanding of organizational fault lines as well as who is talented at what). I'm above average in proactive communication. I'm also reasonably adept at politics for an engineer, not my favorite though.

I'm an HBS reject - when I left the Navy, I interviewed at a number of great MBA schools with the intention of getting into management consulting. I guess I really didn't know what to say at the time because I didn't get into any of these schools! But what drew me to this field initially is that I really like the idea of showing organizations an outside perspective, helping them improve their operations, and getting to take on work in project-size chunks at my own pace. Obviously this job opportunity is not that, but I can't help but think it could bring me closer to a position of being able to freelance consult at some point.

I like my current job, but this is an opportunity I am taking seriously. Unfortunately my current group is resource-challenged right now (many new folks and I am training all of them) so it would be a rough blow for them if I left now. This could easily blacklist me from employment there for the next 5-10 years, and potentially damage my personal relationship with my supervisor. I will say I wouldn't be the first guy to leave them high & dry lately, however. But I certainly wouldn't relish this aspect of the opportunity.

Anyway, that's probably more than adequate... any thoughts?! Just looking for an outside perspective, I'm a little bit in shock right now.
Thank you for your service.

Don't jump the gun yet you don't have an offer yet.

That pay band is wide. At $155k, I'd say no way. At $230k, more analysis would be needed. You would be giving up job security and a pension for more money, is that enough money to be worth it? More details probably will be needed, like other benefits, etc.

Good luck on the interview, get the job offer first and report back!
Longdog
Posts: 2180
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:56 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by Longdog »

Good luck on the interview. As anon_investor said - work to get the offer first, then you will have something to consider. If you do get an offer at the higher end of that salary range it would definitely be worth considering - you'll have two good options to choose between. My sense is this decision will not, and should not end up being primarily a financial one. You are already doing great in all regards (btw - how did you get to 1.3M in taxable by age 35 making 140K/year?), so try to find out what the new job would be like, whether you'd enjoy it more than your current job, and whether and how it will improve your life. Will it give you more of what you value in life? Will it afford you an opportunity to have experiences you desire but can't currently get? Will it accelerate your path to financial independence? (Okay - that one is financial, but presumably being FI will give you more options in life sooner.) Will there be a cost, in terms of extra stress, time expected at work, or other undesirable?

Best of luck!
Steve
runner540
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:43 pm

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by runner540 »

May be industry specific but I’ve never seen people with six figure salaries get “comp time” outside of govt.
User avatar
Nestegg_User
Posts: 2112
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by Nestegg_User »

sippyCUP wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:17 pm Hi all, I lurk every week but post pretty rarely. I've had an interesting play of events this week regarding an employment option. Currently a federal employee conducting oversight at a Department of Energy facility - we basically hire a contractor to run a plant, then station federal employees to observe operations to ensure safety. I'm a nuclear engineer holding Bachelors and Masters degrees, been there 5 years.

Here are my vital stats:
  • 35 years old, single, no kids, no ex, other dependents, etc. No plans to change any time soon.
  • Earn 135k/year plus about 5k in bonus for about 140k from my job. Will top out around 170k in about 15 years. Another 4k tax-free from the VA per year, 10k in taxable dividends.
  • Low cost of living area, very uninterested in moving away! Rather visit urban areas than live there.
  • Generally work 40 hours a week. Compensated for any time over 40. High quality of life in my opinion.
  • Eligible for the FERS Federal pension, can retire and draw pension at 57 at around 65k/year in today's dollars. I calculated the present value being about $2M.
  • Annual expenses around 50k
  • 1.3M Vanguard portfolio with about 80-90% equity, the rest primarily in bond funds and REITs
  • Debt: About 150k on home loan for a house worth about $230k after recent appreciation
  • Truck is paid off, 2005 Nissan Frontier, good mechanical condition, no desire to upgrade

Regarding my values in life...I'm not flashy. I prefer value to ostentation. I would say food is my one financial vice (restaurants and I eat a lot of meat) but I food prep every week. I really don't ever want to stop working either, I just want the option to curtail my hours and/or the option to do consulting work in the next 15-20 years. I currently spend a lot of time working on my house, doing martial arts, doing photography, duck hunting during the season, socializing, etc. So I have a full "schedule" of hobbies that I enjoy.

On to the development. Last night, an old friend (who I helped get a job about 3 years ago but has since moved on) asked me if I wanted to apply to a management position at the local federal contractor he now works for. The office is just down the road from my current location. The position is in a related area to my current specialty. I have some solid experience in this related area, but I have never been an actual practitioner in this area. I went ahead & filled in my resume for the last 5 years, emailed him a 2-pager at 11pm last night. He couldn't guarantee consideration because the posting had technically expired.

In an interesting turn of events, I went to school with the guy he sent it in to. We were both top 5 in our class, and he put in a very generous word with the hiring manager. Long story short, I have an interview next week.

Here are the stats that I know of at this job:
  • Roughly 155-230k pay band
  • No pension, but a 401k with a match that seems about twice as generous as my current TSP match (roughly 9% match vs 5%)
  • Approximately 20 direct reports who write and maintain safety documentation. I currently have 0 direct reports, I am in more of a position of strong "soft influence" with my contractor counterparts. However, I spent 5 years as a naval officer, and I do exercise leadership within my circle of influence at the current job, including a very strong relationship with my supervisor.
  • My 2 contacts say it has a solid culture. I would be working with these 2 guys, they are currently managers there, they are high integrity and I don't think they're BSing me. I am told I will be busy during the week, but they maintain that they only work infrequently on the weekends. However, I am getting the vibe that I might not be able to claim as much comp time for hours over 40, need to get more detail.
  • Better opportunity to gain experience and connections leading to possibly lucrative ($200/hr) consulting work down the road on the 10-20 year horizon, or join senior management (not sure if the later is for me though personally).
  • Intangibles... in my current position, I am stuck in an old high security building without my cell phone. Feels like daycare sometimes. I'd be more in the "real world" again in the new role.

I would say my overall goal for employment is getting my "best bang for the buck" while making progress on becoming financially independent (say 2.5M portfolio). I am unwilling to work 80 hours a work, period, and I can't do 60 hours a week routinely (Navy burned me out). However, a higher salary could help me become financially independent sooner than my current trajectory. This weekend, I intend to complete a spreadsheet helping me to project and compare net worth apples to oranges (higher salary vs no pension).

The main intangibles I bring to the table are a knack for getting the right people involved with at the right times to solve problems (understanding of organizational fault lines as well as who is talented at what). I'm above average in proactive communication. I'm also reasonably adept at politics for an engineer, not my favorite though.

I'm an HBS reject - when I left the Navy, I interviewed at a number of great MBA schools with the intention of getting into management consulting. I guess I really didn't know what to say at the time because I didn't get into any of these schools! But what drew me to this field initially is that I really like the idea of showing organizations an outside perspective, helping them improve their operations, and getting to take on work in project-size chunks at my own pace. Obviously this job opportunity is not that, but I can't help but think it could bring me closer to a position of being able to freelance consult at some point.

I like my current job, but this is an opportunity I am taking seriously. Unfortunately my current group is resource-challenged right now (many new folks and I am training all of them) so it would be a rough blow for them if I left now. This could easily blacklist me from employment there for the next 5-10 years, and potentially damage my personal relationship with my supervisor. I will say I wouldn't be the first guy to leave them high & dry lately, however. But I certainly wouldn't relish this aspect of the opportunity.

Anyway, that's probably more than adequate... any thoughts?! Just looking for an outside perspective, I'm a little bit in shock right now.

SippyCUP

you mentioned five years as navy officer and also five years in current position...did you buy your military time? I mention this in that it might allow you to have a deferred MRA+10 type retirement (you would have to check). If so, then FEHB might be on the table in retirement, as well.

....now the tricky part: you really haven't got the "golden handcuffs" yet, and with the current FERS contribution requirements I have a hard time seeing that they are competitive in the current environment (and I say that as a retired fed, but one who was "involuntarily" switched to FERS)

I would say, after you do any further due diligence, that you seriously consider taking the new position!!


One: it allows for direct supervisory position (such that if you ever want to return you have that in your pocket...many supervisory positions in the fed actually DO require prior experience, even if after you get the job they still give you their training)
Two: the extra matching when done over a typical expected period (10-15 years) will blow away the fed matching. Also, you might even be able to do Roth conversions in the new position, which you cannot do under FERS.
Three: speaking of which, the extra salary will enable you to max tax deferred space and also will give you higher PIA in the end (negating partially the loss of FERS pension)
Four: speaking of pension...if you examine what you might actually get versus what you contributed to get that you will see the ROI for current participants (under FERS-frae I believe the latest version is called) it's not good. And you don't even get a full COLA, but rather a reduced COLA. Consider what would be needed to potentially "buy your own pension" via a purchase of a SPIA with the enhanced 401k you would have with the new position (and no need to worry about MRA or 30 years, etc). (again, check on the applicability of a deferred MRA+10 if you purchase (or have purchased) your military time)

ETA: you shouldn't jump for anything less than 20% bump, since you do loose enough (but because you have enough time, you could get in again as a career (again presuming ten years total...at least you wouldn't be under a conditional status unless it was supervisory) - - so that indicates a minimum of $170 k (bumped up to say $180k to account for higher tax range)

Further ETA!!
if you take the new position...you are already above the SS limit so everything already has the 6+% bump!!, whereas under FERS you still have to pay the percentage to get the pension (again, just putting the "extra savings" from the salary (that doesn't have SS due to being topped out) and not paying that 4.4% towards pension...seems fairly easy to see which wins :beer
random_walker_77
Posts: 2212
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by random_walker_77 »

sippyCUP wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:17 pm
  • Approximately 20 direct reports who write and maintain safety documentation. I currently have 0 direct reports, I am in more of a position of strong "soft influence" with my contractor counterparts.
  • I am told I will be busy during the week, but they maintain that they only work infrequently on the weekends. However, I am getting the vibe that I might not be able to claim as much comp time for hours over 40, need to get more detail.
Given the burnout from the navy, you should think hard about whether you really want this. Sounds like a great career move if you are ambitious and want to go ladder climbing for more money and more impact. The HBS part makes me think that some part of you might want this, but everything else makes me think that this might not mesh with your values. You value your personal time, and a new role always involves extra work at the beginning. Especially at a new employer, where you need to prove yourself and learn the new job.

There's a world of difference between 0 reports and 20 direct reports. Especially for an engineer. 30min per week with, and/or corresponding with, each direct report and that's already 25% of your time. You're responsible for the group, but won't have time to do anything personally, and will instead be delegating almost all of it. That's a different sort of stress to be responsible for delivering, but without direct control and operating only indirectly through your team. This stress might be even higher in a safety-related area, in an industry where safety is critical. Herding cats and taking on liability for the mistakes of your team can lead to a certain kind of frustration and stress. HR matters with underperforming team members can also be both unpleasant and very time-consuming.

In most industries, the notion of comp time can be... tenuous. Especially in management. Be cautious about even asking -- that might raise red flags about your suitability. As a manager, you need to be keeping your team running smoothly and efficiently. That often limits your ability to routinely be away during the workweek using comp time.

Finally, do consider that your contacts who are experienced and efficient managers might be able to get things done in 40 hours. As a new manager, who is new to both the role the company, you are probably going to have to work a lot harder just to learn the ropes and keep up. Your efficiency will improve with time, but between the need to make a good impression and learn the job, I'd expect to be working pretty hard for the first 6 months. Especially since taking this job burns your bridge at the government job.
Last edited by random_walker_77 on Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
smalliebigs
Posts: 450
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by smalliebigs »

Something similar happened to me recently. A recruiter from a direct competitor suddenly messaged me on LinkedIn asking if I was interested in a position with them. I didn't have any thoughts of leaving, but applied and went through the interview process, anyway. The attitude from my end was, "What the hey, what could I lose?"

Suddenly I got a call back saying they're offering me the position with quite a substantial pay bump. Thus, the plan is now shifted to see if my current place can give me a counter, if not, I leave.

Overall, it really helps yourself, there's no losing either way.
mkc
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by mkc »

runner540 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:51 pm May be industry specific but I’ve never seen people with six figure salaries get “comp time” outside of govt.
+1. Both of us were engineers in the private sector working 60-80+ hours per week. There was no such thing as "comp time".
delamer
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by delamer »

Given your preferred lifestyle and low expenses relative to your income, have you considered asking to step back to a 4-day work week at your current job?

You get out of the high security building for an additional day, plus you continue with your pension and retiree health insurance.

Just a possible alternative to ramping up to a higher paying job.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Nathan Drake
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by Nathan Drake »

Do you get any pension if you quit your job before 57? What would the estimated payout be at 57 in that case?
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MBB_Boy
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by MBB_Boy »

Fellow vet and former management consultant here.

Take the interview and progress to an offer, see how much the difference is.

Bias would be to leave - may be hard to see from where you are now, but there's a LOT more money to be had going forward, and getting back into direct management will help. At some point, our military management time gets discounted because it isn't fresh.

You can accelerate your FI, and I promise you can make substantially more money and retain your lifestyle - may require overcoming learning curve, may be next job and not this one, but definitely possible. Additional time in your current position is a waste unless you stay through / Federal until pension. Sort of like buying an EE bond. That's a long time to sit around - are you confident that you'll be satisfied / life won't change / it's worth it financially?
126inc
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2020 12:42 am

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by 126inc »

runner540 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:51 pm May be industry specific but I’ve never seen people with six figure salaries get “comp time” outside of govt.
Back in 2009-2010 I got comp time when I worked at a startup, I think its still somewhat common these days even at big tech companies like Google where the margins are high and you're measured on outcomes
Nathan Drake
Posts: 6234
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:28 am

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by Nathan Drake »

MBB_Boy wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:10 pm Fellow vet and former management consultant here.

Take the interview and progress to an offer, see how much the difference is.

Bias would be to leave - may be hard to see from where you are now, but there's a LOT more money to be had going forward, and getting back into direct management will help. At some point, our military management time gets discounted because it isn't fresh.

You can accelerate your FI, and I promise you can make substantially more money and retain your lifestyle - may require overcoming learning curve, may be next job and not this one, but definitely possible. Additional time in your current position is a waste unless you stay through / Federal until pension. Sort of like buying an EE bond. That's a long time to sit around - are you confident that you'll be satisfied / life won't change / it's worth it financially?
I guess that's the question he will need to find out - is there a lot more money to be had? Maybe there isn't. He specified a pretty wide range for the competing job, and the pension is worth quite a lot.
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Topic Author
sippyCUP
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:54 pm

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

Hey all, I greatly appreciate all your replies and insights. I took my mind off the issue yesterday and painted my kitchen, but today I'm doing some basic research into the company and researching relevant position-specific info to prep for the interview. I also managed to snag the position description from the admin staff who set up my interview so review of that.

Some replies to specific questions:

Longdog: I actually have a TSP, a taxable, and a Roth IRA. So the portfolio is split between those accounts, with all low-cost funds. I began investing in 2008 during the housing crisis and the market has done pretty well (albeit following 2 bailouts). Also no school debt, etc.

Nestegg_User: Appreciate the analysis of the details of FERS, SS, tax bracket, etc. I admit I will have to dig more into these details!

random_walker_77: All true and I definitely need to factor these considerations in!

delamer: I actually work 4 10's now. It is fantastic. The new position is also 4 10's.


Something I failed to mention in my original post... my current job is nearly bulletproof in terms of stability. Like, there have to be feds where I work, and the work is vital, every year. Whereas the job prospect is for a federal contractor whose is currently expanding their scope of work as they complete other projects, and is one of the premier contractors in the area, BUT their fortunes are dependent on the priorities of the federal budget (they do cleanup work).

Thank you all again!
RoadagentMN
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:09 am

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by RoadagentMN »

Don’t change - honestly. Was in very similar situation years back, uncle sugar is sweet and a fairly easy gig. Start your FIRE now, but just keep going to work - someone has to do it, so make it you.
HENRYGRUGER
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:32 pm

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by HENRYGRUGER »

At your age...having 20 direct reports MIGHT sound like a good thing. Read on.

Over my lifetime, I've had 8 employers and a decade of self employment. I started in supervisory work 4 years into my first 27 years career, at age 23, maxing out as VP of a call venter with 400+ employees, at age 47. Along the way, I managed groups from 8-35 employees.

My best experiences have been when I have been responsible for JUST ME! Period.

I also have the perspective of a person who believed in "onward and upward...wherever the money took me." While I do not regret the wealth building opportunities, I severely regret the lack of belonging to a specific community longterm, and the friendships and relationships that entails.

You need to ask, "How much is enough?" You already earn twice the national average income. Your benefits cannot be touched in the Non-Government arena. Stability is not an issue. Lifestyle doesn't appear to be an issue. The only thing I see missing in your life is "a significant other."...and that is NONE of my business, but empirically speaking, married men are THE happiest of all Americans. (Just food for thought.)

Based on what you have accomplished in life so far, if you follow John Bogles most important dictum, "Stay the course," you will have more money at retirement than you will ever be able to spend, and able to enjoy life as you get there.

And that is from the perspective of a 70 year old man, a Viet Nam Veteran, a 47 year marriage, two college education children, (with zero college debt), who is in his third career, the one in which he has earned more money in the past 12 years that in the preceding 37...I would stay right where I was.

By the way...the No Direct Reports thing...Golden!

I am a third career academic. I LOVE being left alone to teach my students, 100% online. Good salary and medical benefits for spouse and me. 403b with employer match. No more text book writing, no more publish or perish, no committee service work...just teaching and racking up superior student satisfaction reviews...all base on my personal performance.

And as soon as the rest of the politically motivated COVID lockdowns are lifted, I will be teaching my online classes from hotel rooms, as we travel throughout the US, spending my 450,000 Delta and 550,000 American Airlines miles, along with my 1.3 M IHG points, all amassed over 10 years or so, spent on the road, teaching live classes.

But Hey...that just MY opinion!

Good Luck and Good Bless...whatever you decide.
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sippyCUP
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

Brief update... interview went great on Monday... I felt quite calm, my prospective boss seemed great as well, the admin assistant seemed happy, etc. Answered questions reasonably well, I asked 5 of my own. Prospective boss said this would be a tough call on who to tender the offer to, but that they would make a decision probably at the end of next week.

You know you're dealing with a nuclear engineer when the individual writes a computer program to determine impacts on net worth on the 20 year horizon. Honestly, taking into account our progressive tax structure, differences in TSP/401k match, FERS contributions, increased investing power (salary left over after expenses) from the prospective job versus value of pension, etc., it is a very close call financially as to which is better for my net worth at age 57, within 5-10% depending on what the offer looks like. I didn't take into account social security yet nor prospective bonuses, and I'm not taking into account upwards mobility.

If I am lucky enough to be offered a decision, I think it really boils down to what I want with my life as others have mentioned.
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sippyCUP
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

Well, I got an offer but it was a lowball (146k with 3wks leave, I currently get 4wks). This salary does not even come close to making up for the FERS pension, nor would it properly compensate me for having 20 reports. Discussion with a manager in the same functional area confirms that 200k+ is more on the mark.

I was going to just drop it and reject the offer because it's so far below the mark, and I felt a serious counteroffer would have the potential to offend folks within the org., causing possible blowback on my guys there now who spoke well of me. But I told them the story and they said look, just counter with a number that is 100% your number, but make sure you accept if they say yes. They indicated HR just looks @ salary and doesn't deal with pension fair compensation, etc.

Certainly low chance of success but I'm getting my one-page counter letter together now, I plan on including a table with some basic math to justify a higher salary.
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sippyCUP
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

Nathan Drake wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:11 pm Do you get any pension if you quit your job before 57? What would the estimated payout be at 57 in that case?
I apologize, I failed to respond to your post last week. Yes, if I left federal service today, I could begin drawing about 18k/year at age 62. I could also start drawing at age 57, but that would permanently reduce the annual value by 25%.


I have taken that into account when comparing different scenarios. It's a nice little nugget anyway.

Actually if I went to this contractor but things didn't work out, it would be fairly lucrative to head back to federal service. Would probably get a 20k paybump if not all the way to the top of the payband, and begin contributing years to my pension again. One manager at the current job said he would support that.
kimura king
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by kimura king »

delete
Last edited by kimura king on Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nathan Drake
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by Nathan Drake »

sippyCUP wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:12 pm Well, I got an offer but it was a lowball (146k with 3wks leave, I currently get 4wks). This salary does not even come close to making up for the FERS pension, nor would it properly compensate me for having 20 reports. Discussion with a manager in the same functional area confirms that 200k+ is more on the mark.

I was going to just drop it and reject the offer because it's so far below the mark, and I felt a serious counteroffer would have the potential to offend folks within the org., causing possible blowback on my guys there now who spoke well of me. But I told them the story and they said look, just counter with a number that is 100% your number, but make sure you accept if they say yes. They indicated HR just looks @ salary and doesn't deal with pension fair compensation, etc.

Certainly low chance of success but I'm getting my one-page counter letter together now, I plan on including a table with some basic math to justify a higher salary.
Curious what your number is?
20% VOO | 20% VXUS | 20% AVUV | 20% AVDV | 20% AVES
MBB_Boy
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by MBB_Boy »

Sorry to hear the number was off, but now you know! Didn't cost much to take the interview, but now you won't have to wonder.

For the counter, make sure that you put a number that you would actually leave for. Be prepared if they say yes
rich126
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by rich126 »

Decisions like this are tough. I've worked as a federal employee 3 times and also as a contractor multiple times. The grass sometimes is greener and sometimes it isn't. I've seen a number of people returning to federal employment because they hated contracting, but others stay as contractors.

A few things I've seen:
1. Lack of job security. Contractors bid on contracts, sometimes they win and stick around long term, other times they lose and you have to scramble to either find employment within your contractor or look for a new company.
2. Companies bought. Lots of mergers/sales/acquisitions. This can change the culture, benefits, etc.
3. Charge numbers. Many contracting positions come with charge numbers and you have to charge the correct program for your time. I understand the need for it, but it is still a pain. Not all do this because some all get charged to the same program.
4. Pension. As I near retirement I value this more and more. I am covered under the newer (FERS) system but old enough to only have to pay 0.8%.
5. Time off. The vacation/holidays and sick time is unmatched as a fed. I can find jobs that give me similar vacation/holidays but nothing close to the sick time.
6. 401K Match. The government is fairly marginal at a max of 5% match. Often you can get 6-10% in a private job. And that amount is higher because you are earning more money as a contractor.
7. Pay increases. Very limited as a government person.
8. Coming back. Sometimes trying to get re-hired isn't too hard but other times it can be very tough. Even with contacts inside, they can leave/move and may not be there. Also at times there are hiring freezes for most positions and you just have to wait. I recently returned and from the interview process to the initial offer took ~4 months and another 6 months of security processing. (I also had private offers that I strongly considered.)

I don't regret leaving government service although if I had stayed I could have started my pension a couple years ago at 56. I think by leaving I ended up with more money in my 401K and had some very interesting experiences living in other locations. The overall amount I lost in my pension wasn't huge, maybe 15-18K a year. For non-fed people, government pay tends to top out around $150-160K and most people don't get that far (GS15). A few get special pay which is higher.

The government pension is 1% x # yrs service x avg 3 yr high pay. An example 35 yrs, top pay 150 = $52K pension. If you are married it will be reduced by 10% if you elect a 50% survivor option (your spouse gets 50% of it when you pass) so that reduces it to $47K. New employees have to contribute ~4.4% to the pension, old timers only 0.8%.

Always worth talking to other companies, just take your time and see if it is really want you want. I've made some decisions recently (not sure why) that I think I've made in haste and didn't consider things more carefully. I left the first time just because the bureaucracy was getting to me and our office kept getting a new manager every 2 years which hurt the morale. I left the second time because I was in a long distances relationship and she couldn't move due to taking care of a family member and thought I could do my last ~4 years elsewhere. I came back unexpectedly for my 3rd tour due to having a family member illness of my own.

Good luck.
----------------------------- | If you think something is important and it doesn't involve the health of someone, think again. Life goes too fast, enjoy it and be nice.
oilrig
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by oilrig »

sippyCUP wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:12 pm Well, I got an offer but it was a lowball (146k with 3wks leave, I currently get 4wks). This salary does not even come close to making up for the FERS pension, nor would it properly compensate me for having 20 reports. Discussion with a manager in the same functional area confirms that 200k+ is more on the mark.

I was going to just drop it and reject the offer because it's so far below the mark, and I felt a serious counteroffer would have the potential to offend folks within the org., causing possible blowback on my guys there now who spoke well of me. But I told them the story and they said look, just counter with a number that is 100% your number, but make sure you accept if they say yes. They indicated HR just looks @ salary and doesn't deal with pension fair compensation, etc.

Certainly low chance of success but I'm getting my one-page counter letter together now, I plan on including a table with some basic math to justify a higher salary.
Im in HR and we look at pension whenever we evaluate a candidate's potential offer. Thats not fair of their HR person not to include that. Its like not including a candidate's stock options or bonus that vest a year from now. You said you would get $18k/year if you quit today, I would include that number in your current compensation.

You havent mentioned what their bonus plan is? You currently get $5k, which seems low. Maybe they offer 20-30% bonus?

Overall it doesnt seem like their offer will be worth it for you. I think something in the $175k-200k range would make sense financially for you to leave, but I doubt they will go up that high after presenting their initial offer. It might be best just staying put in this situation, sounds like you have a good thing going at your current gig. Why rock the boat.
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sippyCUP
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

Nathan Drake wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:52 pm
sippyCUP wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 5:12 pm Well, I got an offer but it was a lowball (146k with 3wks leave, I currently get 4wks). This salary does not even come close to making up for the FERS pension, nor would it properly compensate me for having 20 reports. Discussion with a manager in the same functional area confirms that 200k+ is more on the mark.

I was going to just drop it and reject the offer because it's so far below the mark, and I felt a serious counteroffer would have the potential to offend folks within the org., causing possible blowback on my guys there now who spoke well of me. But I told them the story and they said look, just counter with a number that is 100% your number, but make sure you accept if they say yes. They indicated HR just looks @ salary and doesn't deal with pension fair compensation, etc.

Certainly low chance of success but I'm getting my one-page counter letter together now, I plan on including a table with some basic math to justify a higher salary.
Curious what your number is?
I'm thinking excess of 200,000 at this point, plus 4 weeks vacation. Compensates for loss of pension and the extra responsibility/accountability.
MoonOrb
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by MoonOrb »

Managing people is hard, hard, hard work. Much more stressful, in my opinion, than not. Twenty people is a lot of people to supervise. I mean, a LOT. It is hard to overstate what a change this will be for you.

Right now you have everything that you want and earn more money than you need. You have time to do all of the things you love. You appear not to have a lot of stress. You have job security.

Giving that up for more money doesn't seem to make a lot of sense if (a) it won't significantly accelerate your retirement plans and (b) you have said you don't really want to retire early, anyway. Even if they come back with some absurd number, how is this going to improve your life? When you start working 50 hour weeks instead of 40 hour weeks, are you going to come home and count those extra dollars (that you won't even be spending) to compensate yourself for the time that you can't spend on things like martial arts?
daheld
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by daheld »

I would really, really, seriously consider your current level of work/life balance, job security, and the pension.

I realize the pension is easily quantifiable unlike the other two. It can be a more objective decision. I'm a fellow fed, and for me the two former considerations are enormously important to me.

I would also think about the fact that you can retire at 57 and not have to think about or plan for any sort of excess healthcare expense. You can keep a FEHB plan at the same cost as federal employees, whereas you'll have to figure out some sort of (likely exorbitantly expensive) solution if you leave the federal service.
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sippyCUP
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

MoonOrb wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:41 am Managing people is hard, hard, hard work. Much more stressful, in my opinion, than not. Twenty people is a lot of people to supervise. I mean, a LOT. It is hard to overstate what a change this will be for you.

Right now you have everything that you want and earn more money than you need. You have time to do all of the things you love. You appear not to have a lot of stress. You have job security.

Giving that up for more money doesn't seem to make a lot of sense if (a) it won't significantly accelerate your retirement plans and (b) you have said you don't really want to retire early, anyway. Even if they come back with some absurd number, how is this going to improve your life? When you start working 50 hour weeks instead of 40 hour weeks, are you going to come home and count those extra dollars (that you won't even be spending) to compensate yourself for the time that you can't spend on things like martial arts?
All very important points, and true about having enough money, stress, etc.... I've been doing a lot of thinking this past week. I think the one consideration worth mentioning is that this position would provide experience that could actually result in retirement of some sort prior to age 57, by way of consulting, part time work, etc.

Although, then I get into the question of what is the likelihood I could work out such an arrangement (50/50, 80/20, 20/80?), how much time would I have to spend networking/schmoozing on and off the clock, etc.? Hard to even begin to quantify.
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sippyCUP
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

daheld wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:57 am I would really, really, seriously consider your current level of work/life balance, job security, and the pension.

I realize the pension is easily quantifiable unlike the other two. It can be a more objective decision. I'm a fellow fed, and for me the two former considerations are enormously important to me.

I would also think about the fact that you can retire at 57 and not have to think about or plan for any sort of excess healthcare expense. You can keep a FEHB plan at the same cost as federal employees, whereas you'll have to figure out some sort of (likely exorbitantly expensive) solution if you leave the federal service.
Very true. Although I actually use the VA for health care, so FEHB isn't a consideration for me unless things change with respect to marriage/kids, or my VA eligibility changes.
daheld
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by daheld »

sippyCUP wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:00 pm
daheld wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:57 am I would really, really, seriously consider your current level of work/life balance, job security, and the pension.

I realize the pension is easily quantifiable unlike the other two. It can be a more objective decision. I'm a fellow fed, and for me the two former considerations are enormously important to me.

I would also think about the fact that you can retire at 57 and not have to think about or plan for any sort of excess healthcare expense. You can keep a FEHB plan at the same cost as federal employees, whereas you'll have to figure out some sort of (likely exorbitantly expensive) solution if you leave the federal service.
Very true. Although I actually use the VA for health care, so FEHB isn't a consideration for me unless things change with respect to marriage/kids, or my VA eligibility changes.
Ah, I missed that important piece of information. That does change the calculus significantly, to me anyway. My wife has a fairly serious chronic health condition, and honestly the FEHB thing is THE golden handcuff for me. Pension is part of it, as are work/life balance and security, but the healthcare thing is huge.

Good luck on your counter offer; let us know how it goes.
MoonOrb
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by MoonOrb »

sippyCUP wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 12:58 pm
MoonOrb wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:41 am Managing people is hard, hard, hard work. Much more stressful, in my opinion, than not. Twenty people is a lot of people to supervise. I mean, a LOT. It is hard to overstate what a change this will be for you.

Right now you have everything that you want and earn more money than you need. You have time to do all of the things you love. You appear not to have a lot of stress. You have job security.

Giving that up for more money doesn't seem to make a lot of sense if (a) it won't significantly accelerate your retirement plans and (b) you have said you don't really want to retire early, anyway. Even if they come back with some absurd number, how is this going to improve your life? When you start working 50 hour weeks instead of 40 hour weeks, are you going to come home and count those extra dollars (that you won't even be spending) to compensate yourself for the time that you can't spend on things like martial arts?
All very important points, and true about having enough money, stress, etc.... I've been doing a lot of thinking this past week. I think the one consideration worth mentioning is that this position would provide experience that could actually result in retirement of some sort prior to age 57, by way of consulting, part time work, etc.

Although, then I get into the question of what is the likelihood I could work out such an arrangement (50/50, 80/20, 20/80?), how much time would I have to spend networking/schmoozing on and off the clock, etc.? Hard to even begin to quantify.
It's possible you might be able to retire prior to age 57 even if you stay in place. I haven't thought through the math, but your income far outstrips your expenditures and even if you are not eligible for the pension or if the pension is significantly reduced, you already have a significant head start on investing. If you thought you would be financially independent at $2.5M in investable assets, you're not that far off from that now, are you? It seems like you have $1.3M already and can invest--what--$70K/year or so? You're looking at about 7 more years to achieve that even with fairly modest returns. Although my reply above was significantly influenced by you reading your OP to say that you didn't really see yourself retiring early. I think my point of view is that if you can achieve the life you want to live and do it without stress, that's a really good place to be and an alternate path isn't really giving you more of what it looks like you really value. Anyway, this is a great position for you to be in!
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sippyCUP
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

Yes, I almost certainly could probably retire before 57 and take a deferred pension @ 62.
namajones
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by namajones »

sippyCUP wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:17 pm On to the development. Last night, an old friend (who I helped get a job about 3 years ago but has since moved on) asked me if I wanted to apply to a management position at the local federal contractor he now works for.
Leave a federal job to work at a contractor? No. Just no.
HomeStretch
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by HomeStretch »

Less is more. Don’t try to justify your number with too much detail. Give the number/benefits you are willing to leave for and be prepared to say yes if they agree. If you aren’t willing to immediately say yes, don’t go back to them with a number. Best of luck!
ace_it
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by ace_it »

Agreed that your counter offer should not provide much details to justify. Just give a number that you for sure are going to be happy with, if you do provide a counter offer.

I would not provide a counter offer and then later reject that same number, as it would be seen as "burning bridges". You want to "keep the door open" even if you are not accepting anything from them.

As a reference, if my current compensation is worth a number X, factoring salary, benefits, pensions, vacations, job security ... etc. I would need the new job to be worth 1.5X for me to consider jumping ship.

Good luck!
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sippyCUP
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

Yeah... I emailed a decline letter today, citing the salary issue. At the end of the day, the increase to my NW after 20 years would not compensate for the increased accountability, to include negative emotions following me home, etc. Although I looked at the issue from about every angle imaginable, that's the bottom line.

Thank you all for your insights and perspectives!
daheld
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by daheld »

sippyCUP wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:27 pm Yeah... I emailed a decline letter today, citing the salary issue. At the end of the day, the increase to my NW after 20 years would not compensate for the increased accountability, to include negative emotions following me home, etc. Although I looked at the issue from about every angle imaginable, that's the bottom line.

Thank you all for your insights and perspectives!
So they made you a offer at $146k and you declined without countering?

I think you made the right choice to not leave the federal service, just curious how it all played out.
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sippyCUP
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

That's right, no counter. My number above the top of their payband.
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sippyCUP
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

Well, I declined with no counter, and the HR lady replied via email that they're very disappointed, and what would I be looking for regarding salary? She also threw in an extra week of leave without asking. All this seems standard.

My number is 260k, I don't see them going above payband for me but that's the number.

Seems like the only option that could work is an in-person meeting that includes someone from management with the right color pen who I can convince I'm worth it.

Thinking about cutting to the chase and requesting said 10-15m meeting with management to discuss. Too ballsy?
HomeStretch
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by HomeStretch »

You seem somewhat ambivalent about the proposed new job. Why not skip a meeting and reply to the HR person with “my number is $260k base salary plus [fill in the bonus & benefits info including the additional week] and see what she says? Only do this if you’re prepared to say “yes” immediately and start the new job two weeks after receiving the offer in writing and giving notice.
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MillennialFinance19
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by MillennialFinance19 »

sippyCUP wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:41 pm Well, I declined with no counter, and the HR lady replied via email that they're very disappointed, and what would I be looking for regarding salary? She also threw in an extra week of leave without asking. All this seems standard.

My number is 260k, I don't see them going above payband for me but that's the number.

Seems like the only option that could work is an in-person meeting that includes someone from management with the right color pen who I can convince I'm worth it.

Thinking about cutting to the chase and requesting said 10-15m meeting with management to discuss. Too ballsy?
I'm a federal employee also... in a similar position that is unlikely to ever be cut. I'm actually pretty sure we support the same mission. Anyhow - I completely understand where you're coming from as I've thought about moving over to the private sector. Every time I strongly consider it for $20k or $30k more a year, it just doesn't work. The FERS pension and taking my health insurance into retirement is a huge plus. I can't seem to get past those. Though, with my luck, they'll discontinue the health insurance just prior to my retirement :(

Good luck!
VTI and chill until 57...
jchris
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by jchris »

OP - just wanted to say that I have a similar background to yours - spent 8 years as a naval officer (nuke subs), decided to get out when I got engaged, and went to work for Fed gov. I'm older than you and toward the end of my career. Could retire today, already made my number, etc., but am doing the one more year thing just because I have a pretty good situation right now. Anyway, I had similar outside job opportunities to yours on at least two occasions during my Fed career, and when I did the analysis - like you I concluded that the offer would have had to be significantly higher than my salary at the time. I think your $260K number is about right, particularly if there is uncompensated overtime in there anywhere. I just can't see them upping your offer from mid 140s to 260. If they could do that, it makes you wonder what the heck they were thinking with the original offer. So unless they surprise you with something like your number, I think you made the right choice in declining.

Oh and by the way - I completely get what you mean about being burned out when you left the Navy. My wife tells me that I was burned out when I first got out also. All work and no play, extended sea tours, etc...Fed gov is much better.
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sippyCUP
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

jchris wrote: Mon Aug 09, 2021 7:43 pm OP - just wanted to say that I have a similar background to yours - spent 8 years as a naval officer (nuke subs), decided to get out when I got engaged, and went to work for Fed gov. I'm older than you and toward the end of my career. Could retire today, already made my number, etc., but am doing the one more year thing just because I have a pretty good situation right now. Anyway, I had similar outside job opportunities to yours on at least two occasions during my Fed career, and when I did the analysis - like you I concluded that the offer would have had to be significantly higher than my salary at the time. I think your $260K number is about right, particularly if there is uncompensated overtime in there anywhere. I just can't see them upping your offer from mid 140s to 260. If they could do that, it makes you wonder what the heck they were thinking with the original offer. So unless they surprise you with something like your number, I think you made the right choice in declining.

Oh and by the way - I completely get what you mean about being burned out when you left the Navy. My wife tells me that I was burned out when I first got out also. All work and no play, extended sea tours, etc...Fed gov is much better.
Awesome, nice to run into a fellow nuke! Yeah, the value of federal benefits, even with the reduced value pension, is pretty incredible, and you actually get to have a life outside of work too... weird right?

To HomeStretch - I'm not sure ambivalent is the right word, however I did nicely tell their HR that they were only 50% of where they need to offer on salary. They said yeah, not gonna happen, so I thanked them and am moving on.

I was truly excited about the job opportunity. I began thinking about how I would interact with my team, what sorts of ways I could make their lives better, etc. However, I knew to do the job well, I would have to grind for a long time. The responsibilities would follow me home, my peace of mind would be sacrificed at times. The 260 number really just breaks me even in my mind... considering once the next 20 years are over, there's no re-dos. Yeah, I could have left after 2 years to go back to federal work, but that's an emergency backup, I would have done my very best to perform in the role.

I think a lot of folks get really attached to annual salary absolute differences, but the progressive tax brackets really chew up income marginal when you get into the 163k+ territory as we all know. I used a for loop (programming jargon) to iterate income (with raises), taxes, 401k/TSP, equity appreciation, etc. to get a true feel for what the position could do for me. 260 was the number to compensate for (primarily) losing the pension, plus a boost for the extra accountabilities.

Anyway, that was interesting! Greatly appreciate all the perspectives from everyone along the way.
Topic Author
sippyCUP
Posts: 128
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 6:54 pm

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by sippyCUP »

OK... I"m sorry, I can't resist an update. Spoke to the hiring manager today. He hinted a 30% increase might be possible, but mostly he was selling the possible promotion opportunities. His secretary scheduled dinner on for Monday at one of my favorite restaurants (his suggestion not mine). I said, give me 24 hours and I'll email you. I'm thinking no and no (cancel), he is a nice guy though.
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Wricha
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by Wricha »

Go to dinner you like the resturant. Nothing to lose
critterdude311
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:06 pm

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by critterdude311 »

sippyCUP wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:21 pm OK... I"m sorry, I can't resist an update. Spoke to the hiring manager today. He hinted a 30% increase might be possible, but mostly he was selling the possible promotion opportunities. His secretary scheduled dinner on for Monday at one of my favorite restaurants (his suggestion not mine). I said, give me 24 hours and I'll email you. I'm thinking no and no (cancel), he is a nice guy though.
Let it go, it’s time to move on from the offer. 30% is still nowhere in the ballpark. The total package you have now is incredible and you’d be foolish to consider giving it up for this new gig.
random_walker_77
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Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by random_walker_77 »

Wricha wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:33 pm Go to dinner you like the resturant. Nothing to lose
I agree w/ Wricha. Think of it as an extended interview. This is your chance to help them decide that you're a level higher than what they're currently hiring for. Ideally, they walk away thinking they really need to find some way to hire you. Maybe they'll keep you in mind if a higher comp position opens up. Worst case, you enjoy a good meal while talking shop.
random_walker_77
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Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 8:49 pm

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by random_walker_77 »

critterdude311 wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:36 pm
sippyCUP wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:21 pm OK... I"m sorry, I can't resist an update. Spoke to the hiring manager today. He hinted a 30% increase might be possible, but mostly he was selling the possible promotion opportunities. His secretary scheduled dinner on for Monday at one of my favorite restaurants (his suggestion not mine). I said, give me 24 hours and I'll email you. I'm thinking no and no (cancel), he is a nice guy though.
Let it go, it’s time to move on from the offer. 30% is still nowhere in the ballpark. The total package you have now is incredible and you’d be foolish to consider giving it up for this new gig.
Alternatively, think of it not as a live offer, because as you say, the numbers don't work. Instead, think of it as a highly directed networking event, and it just happens to be at a favorite restaurant.
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LittleGreenSoldiers
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Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by LittleGreenSoldiers »

You're on track with $1.3M in our Vanguard account with an average 7% return for ~$5M at age 55 without any further contributions. Great job and congratulations on being so well prepared at age 35! Relax and appreciate what ever path you take.
Fishing50
Posts: 671
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:18 am

Re: Sudden new job opportunity/interview

Post by Fishing50 »

If 30% raise is possible, so is more.
I’m guessing not many people with your experience are considering for the position.
I’m guessing you are a unique unicorn In your local area, hiring the competition would require moving expenses plus relocation bonus.

Be Bold, Be Expensive….you might run this new company in the future (or retire early).
Worse case, you have a darn good govt job to grind out your remaining working years. :beer
Retired Military Officer. 80% equites / 20% bonds for life, ZERO emergency fund, 100% taxable in equities (dividends in cash), 33% taxable, 30% Roth, 37% tax deferred. Gone Fishing At 52yrs old!
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