Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

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beyou
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by beyou »

Separate issues, carrying a wallet vs online security.

Personally I still carry my wallet anyway, to keep some cash and drivers license, and my favorite credit cards.
Apple Pay can have all your credit cards, favorites and less heavily used for infrequent use if need be.
I do find it is a bit more common to have my phone in hand and wallet in pocket, and bit faster to pay with phone.
But not a compelling reason to sign up.

The primary reason I signed up was I simply do not want to give out my cc # to any more websites.
Too many sites are hacked and people get your cc #s.
Using Apple Pay or Paypal means the online site does not have your cc # at all.
Not all websites have Apple Pay or Paypal (and in fact PayPal is a bit more widely used but both are better than typing in another copy of my cc#).
Apple pay is also a pass through meaning the charges come directly from your vendor, vs Paypal where they come from Paypal.
Paypal can be more of a challenge to get credit card rewards (and for disputes possibly) when the charges is not directly from the vendor on your cc.

Note as to security, some stated the using the card physically is somehow less secure than Apple Pay.
That is not correct, if you have a new cc with a chip, that chip uses the same security tech as Apple Pay to transmit data to/from the
store's payment processor. Both use codes that mask your ID and cc # in the same way. The improvement is vs using the old magnetic strips,
but most stores don't use the magnetic strips any longer. Stores were incented to move to the chip reader (by Visa, MasterCard etc).
So yes Apple Pay is secure but so is using your new chip based CCs. Whichever you prefer is fine, but then again, why buy an iPhone if not to carry it with you ? It is called a MOBILE DEVICE. Not meant to be left home.
Last edited by beyou on Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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22twain
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by 22twain »

exigent wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:45 pm Apple Pay once saved me by letting me pump gas when I was about 50 miles from home, running on fumes, and had forgotten my wallet.
In my area (rural small town in the Southeast), I've found wide variations in the usability of Apple Pay at gas stations. Some stations allow me to use it directly at the pump, by using Face ID on the phone, selecting the card if not the default one, then holding it near the contactless-payment pad on the pump. Some require me to install their app first (e.g. Shell). Some require me to go inside and pay at the register.
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tomsense76
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by tomsense76 »

02nz wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:28 am Apple Pay is more secure than using physical cards. When you use Apple Pay, a one-time code is generated and processed through the merchant's system, instead of using your real card number. So if when there's a hack at the merchant, your credit card is not compromised. Read more: https://9to5mac.com/2016/08/23/comment- ... ime-codes/
Chip cards do the same thing ( https://merchants.fiserv.com/en-us/reso ... echnology/ ).
02nz wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:28 am An additional advantage for international travelers: in many countries, esp. in Europe, when you try to use an US-issued credit card, it can be awkward. In some cases (esp automated ticket kiosks and unattended gas stations) most US-issued cards ("chip and signature") will not work at all. In other cases you need to sign a paper receipt. Using an NFC payment like Apple Pay gets around all that.
I've never had an issue with a chip card in Europe and have traveled through basically every western and central European country.
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hudson
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by hudson »

jebmke wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:02 am Is there any online source of info on who does accept?
https://www.huntington.com/Personal/che ... -apple-pay

Can you use apple pay on windows?
Probably not. I have used it on the apple website from a PC to buy an ipad or two. I forget how. It seems like when I login, they just know me and my credit card.
I don't have or want the physical card. I can call up the card on my iphone in Wallet and manually move the card number, expiration date, and 4 digit code....but you already knew that. In Windows and on Google Chrome, I could probably load the card number, etc. into Google with other credit cards...not sure.
Apple Pay is my go-to payment at my usual grocery store, Chic Fil A, McDonalds, or anywhere that I see the Apple Pay logo:
https://www.apple.com/apple-pay/
Again, I'm usually using my Penfed card after 2 clicks on my apple watch. It depends.

Bottom Line: Apple Pay is worth trying out to see if it fits you.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by crefwatch »

Apple Pay in London can substitute for a transit Oyster Card. That is, not just discounted payment but a daily maximum cost for unlimited rides. In NYC transit there is no such additional benefit.
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CyclingDuo
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by CyclingDuo »

jebmke wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:49 am
Normchad wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:41 am I’ll rephrase. For me, I can complete the transaction faster than I can even get the card out of my wallet. (And I’m super close to stop carrying a wallet all together. As soon as I can put my drivers license in my phone…..)

But I always have my phone in my hand, and that’s not the case for everybody.
You'd still need to carry a card, right? For places that don't take phone payment? I guess there are phone cases with slots for a card that would be ideal for this.

I guess it is worth trying - doesn't seem like I have anything to lose. Will still require more discipline about carrying the phone. As I said, half the time I leave the house without it. Probably 90% of the time I leave my car (to go into a store) I forget to take it out of the center console where I stash it while I drive. That last bit can come back to haunt me. I've left it in the car at home for days only to find the battery run down. Maybe getting used to carrying it would solve that too.
Simple: Apple Watch

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hoffse
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by hoffse »

Silk McCue wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:04 pm
hoffse wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:50 pm
At this point, I just have to carry a card for restaurants with table service and HD/Lowe’s.
We shop quite a bit at Lowe’s and use their card for 5% off. Just recently found out how to check out using the Lowe’s app by bringing up a barcode tied to the card. If requires the clerk to scan the barcode and type in first and last name but it lightens my wallet even further. I started using Apple Pay a few months ago and love it.

Cheers
Nice tip!

The Target card/Target app does exactly the same thing. You scan a barcode in the app and it does the Target circle discounts plus any gift cards you have plus charges your red card for you. It's slick. I don't have a Lowe's card, but I have thought about getting it many times, and we are about to embark on another round of renos within the next year. Might be the push I need to get it...
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by wander »

I prefer using Apple Pay at gas stations. There is no added value but convenient. It is safer than a credit card because nobody but me knows the card numbers.
02nz
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by 02nz »

hudson wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:56 am Can you use apple pay on windows?
You cannot.
tomsense76 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:01 am Chip cards do the same thing ( https://merchants.fiserv.com/en-us/reso ... echnology/ ).
At point-of-sale terminals, yes. But not online, where the number must still be entered. And Apple Pay and other NFC payments cannot be stolen, unlike physical cards.
tomsense76 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:01 am I've never had an issue with a chip card in Europe and have traveled through basically every western and central European country.
This is very YMMV. A poster above noted not being able to use a Citi chip card to pay in London, but Apple Pay worked fine. It definitely is a hassle signing credit card receipts, so just avoiding that is a win.
prd1982
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by prd1982 »

Does it cost he merchant more when you use Apple/Google Pay vs. the underlying credit card?
02nz
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by 02nz »

prd1982 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:36 am Does it cost he merchant more when you use Apple/Google Pay vs. the underlying credit card?
No, they charge the credit card company 0.15%.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by 02nz »

Normchad wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:42 am
02nz wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:28 am
There's obviously also the convenience of being able to carry many cards without the bulk. For those who like to optimize cash back / points (e.g. one card earns 5X points at supermarkets, another card earns 5X at office supply stores) this is a nice perk.
This is a really good point I didn’t even think of. I should be doing more of this.
There's an additional related benefit: you can add a card to a spouse's phone or Watch, making it even easier to optimize points/cash back for purchases and fulfill requirements for signup bonuses. This does NOT require adding that person as an authorized user - this is important for those who want to stay under Chase's 5/24 rule, for example.

(I suppose theoretically the cashier could ask for ID to match the card to the person, but in probably over a thousand Apple Pay purchases I've never been asked for ID.)
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by exigent »

22twain wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:13 am
exigent wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:45 pm Apple Pay once saved me by letting me pump gas when I was about 50 miles from home, running on fumes, and had forgotten my wallet.
In my area (rural small town in the Southeast), I've found wide variations in the usability of Apple Pay at gas stations. Some stations allow me to use it directly at the pump, by using Face ID on the phone, selecting the card if not the default one, then holding it near the contactless-payment pad on the pump. Some require me to install their app first (e.g. Shell). Some require me to go inside and pay at the register.
I ran into the same thing. The first station (small, local station) I stopped at couldn’t take Apple Pay, at the pump or inside, though a nice gentleman offered to buy me a few dollars worth of gas. I thanked him but was intent to fix my mistake myself. I then went a bigger brand (Race Trac or QT? I forget) and was able to use the phone at the pump. This was a few years ago, and availability has only increased since then.

And now that I have an Apple Watch, I’m even less likely to be without a device for payment. I still carry my wallet since, as you point out, not everyone accepts Apple Pay. But I’m more likely to forget that than my phone or watch.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by H-Town »

jebmke wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:21 am I converted to an iPhone last year. I keep getting nudges from Apple to sign up for Apple Pay.

So far I have had no barriers to using my chip credit card for almost everything. I haven't even used physical currency since the spring of 2020 (haven't traveled where I would probably need a small amount of cash for tips).

I have no pe-conceived notion on the value of Apple Pay or lack thereof. I'd use it if there were some compelling reason. It would require me to have more discipline about taking my phone when I leave home. I never leave without my wallet but I probably forget my phone half the time. But I'm trainable. :P

I'd be interested in hearing what users see as the value vs. continuing to only use the CC.
At gas station, I pay from my phone (via Shell/Exxon app & Apple Pay) in the car. It's more convenient than swipping card at the station.

At the store, it seems to me that it's not much different between swipping card and pulling out the phone to use Apple Pay. So it's just another back-up form of payment, I guess.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by Silk McCue »

hoffse wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:23 am
Nice tip!

The Target card/Target app does exactly the same thing. You scan a barcode in the app and it does the Target circle discounts plus any gift cards you have plus charges your red card for you. It's slick. I don't have a Lowe's card, but I have thought about getting it many times, and we are about to embark on another round of renos within the next year. Might be the push I need to get it...
We use the Target app as well, along with Walmart and Publix apps. Wallet is much thinner these days.

Cheers
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by Bagels »

adestefan wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:46 pm You do not need your Apple Watch near your iPhone to use Apple Pay, but you do need an iPhone to setup and configure Apple Pay on your watch.
Thank you!
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by jebmke »

beyou wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:45 pm why buy an iPhone if not to carry it with you ? It is called a MOBILE DEVICE. Not meant to be left home.
Many times when I leave home it is a short distance, specific purpose (e.g. quick trip to the library) so the phone is mostly irrelevant. If I take off somewhere more distant, I take it with me, stick it in the center console - mainly in case I have a breakdown. When I go for a hike or go birding, I always have it - it has the apps that I use for identifying species and broadcasting bird songs to attract a specific bird; but in those situations I'm am unlikely to need any form of payment except if I stop for gas or a coffee. The times I forget to take it are probably 99% short distance, specific purpose and then home.

I will likely activate it (Apple Pay) just to have it available.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by kramer »

Can someone comment on the Android equivalent to Apple Pay? I remember hearing about Samsung pay and Google pay, or something like that.

I have a brand new Samsung phone arriving in the mail in a few days. I am in the US currently, but I don't live here, so I don't know what's generally common or accepted. And is it useful in Europe and other places?
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by Big Mig »

kramer wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:39 pm Can someone comment on the Android equivalent to Apple Pay? I remember hearing about Samsung pay and Google pay, or something like that.

I have a brand new Samsung phone arriving in the mail in a few days. I am in the US currently, but I don't live here, so I don't know what's generally common or accepted. And is it useful in Europe and other places?
Payment terminals are either capable of contactless payments or not, but if they can handle it they are agnostic as to device. Apple Pay, Google Pay, contactless card, all should work. I generally use an iPhone but sometimes use a Pixel and I’ve never run into a situation where Apple Pay works but Google Pay does not. Android phones (and in my experience, contactless terminals, at least until recently) are relatively more common in Europe and Google Pay should be fine.

Not all card issuers allow all their cards to be added to digital wallets. I’m not sure if they treat Apple Pay and Google Pay the same.

I’ve never used Samsung Pay but I understand it has (or at least had) a unique feature (magnetic secure transmission) that allowed it to spoof a magnetic strip, so it could be used at terminals that aren’t set up for contactless payments. I think this is being phased out though.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by yakers »

ApplePay worked very well for me at unattended gas stations in rural Iceland last two weeks. These usually require a chip & pin but ApplePay worked.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by tmhudg »

Big Mig wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:41 pm
Payment terminals are either capable of contactless payments or not, but if they can handle it they are agnostic as to device. Apple Pay, Google Pay, contactless card, all should work.
Is that true? I thought a reader had to be specifically enabled for Apple Pay for me to be able to use it. Maybe the readers just weren't working at all but I could swear I've tried to use my Apple watch/Apple Pay at a few contactless terminals (that didn't specifically say they worked with Apple) and it failed.

I'll have to try this again and pay more attention to what works and what doesn't.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by Jags4186 »

tmhudg wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:51 am
Big Mig wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:41 pm
Payment terminals are either capable of contactless payments or not, but if they can handle it they are agnostic as to device. Apple Pay, Google Pay, contactless card, all should work.
Is that true? I thought a reader had to be specifically enabled for Apple Pay for me to be able to use it. Maybe the readers just weren't working at all but I could swear I've tried to use my Apple watch/Apple Pay at a few contactless terminals (that didn't specifically say they worked with Apple) and it failed.

I'll have to try this again and pay more attention to what works and what doesn't.
If it accepts tap to pay it will accept Apple Pay. If you try to pay with a card that the retailer doesn’t accept it will fail. For example, if you try to pay with a Mastercard via Apple Pay at Costco it would fail. However, Apple Pay with a Visa would be just fine.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by quantAndHold »

I can pay for stuff with my watch. Can’t tell you how many times that saved me when I was out on a run and didn’t have my wallet.

Also, when I was in London, I never had to change money and never had to fuss with a credit card. Apple Pay connected to my Capital One card just worked for everything.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by criticalmass »

jebmke wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:38 am
Normchad wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:29 am Most if what I love about it, is is so fast and convenient. I was in California for a week, and literally everyplace I went accepted Apple Pay. You just hold it near the reader, double click the side button, and you’re done in about 5 seconds.
That is about how long it takes me to do a chip card transaction. Most people don't realize you don't have to wait for the total to insert the card. Jam it in right away and the verification process commences. I just wait for the "Remove Card" beep and I'm done.
I like waiting for the total and ensuing I haven't been double charged for items, etc. When that happened just before the clerk hit total, the charge required a trip to the dreaded customer service line and waiting for a manager. Check and then tap.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by masteraleph »

tomsense76 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:01 am
I've never had an issue with a chip card in Europe and have traveled through basically every western and central European country.
IIRC this is most often an issue at automated kiosks, particularly those for public transit systems. It comes from the vast majority of US issuers using chip and signature whereas European countries use chip and PIN.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by tomsense76 »

masteraleph wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:35 am
tomsense76 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:01 am
I've never had an issue with a chip card in Europe and have traveled through basically every western and central European country.
IIRC this is most often an issue at automated kiosks, particularly those for public transit systems. It comes from the vast majority of US issuers using chip and signature whereas European countries use chip and PIN.
Idk I used public transit in London, Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Rome, Berlin, etc. worked great!

Not saying some folks haven't had issues. There are stories with every technology (not just in finance). Just that hasn't been my experience and have been a heavy user of chip cards in Europe.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by cowdogman »

jebmke wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:49 am
You'd still need to carry a card, right? For places that don't take phone payment?
Yep, I arrived at an airport (in a pretty remote location) late evening and went to the car rental desk to pick up a car. There was a guy in front of me with two young daughters. He tried to pay for the car rental with Apple Pay and the car rental rep said that his booth wasn't set up for that. The guy said he had no physical cards. After some back and forth the guy took his daughters and walked away to try to find another place to rent a car.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by Big Mig »

masteraleph wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:35 am
tomsense76 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:01 am
I've never had an issue with a chip card in Europe and have traveled through basically every western and central European country.
IIRC this is most often an issue at automated kiosks, particularly those for public transit systems. It comes from the vast majority of US issuers using chip and signature whereas European countries use chip and PIN.
This seems like a 2018 discussion—is this really still a thing? I haven’t been since 2019 but it seemed even then Europe was well on its way to adopting tap-to-pay and the pandemic only accelerated this. I’d be a little surprised if public transit and parking kiosks and unattended gas stations weren’t contactless now.

Even then for train tickets I guess you could run into the transaction limit (which might be as low as €50?)—but that’s why you use your phone. Since Apple Pay/Google Pay require biometric authentication (maybe you can still use a PIN?) they generally have a higher per-transaction limit.

This higher transaction limit is one answer to the OP about why to use Apple Pay; they should contact their card issuer to see if the limit is different when using Apple Pay vs the contactless card. This may be less important in the US than Europe and Oceania where there are more national policies that limit the value of unauthenticated contactless transactions, but even here card issuers and payment networks have different limits for cards vs Apple Pay. Square, for example, requires additional validation for contactless Visa, MasterCard, and Discover payments above $100 ($200 for contactless AmEx cards), but has no limit and requires no additional validation for Apple Pay or Google Pay transactions. (https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article ... vid-19-faq)

(edited once to expand the last paragraph)
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by 02nz »

This thread (viewtopic.php?p=6157972) reminded me of an Apple Pay advantage that I don't believe has been mentioned in this thread: when you add a card to Apple Pay, by default your phone will show a notification each time a purchase is made, whether made with Apple Pay or not. (ETA: It seems this varies by card issuer. For Amex and US Bank it seem to show/notify all transactions, for Chase it does not.) This means you are likely to detect any fraudulent use of your card immediately. Granted, your liability for fraudulent use of a credit card liability is limited (or zero) in most cases, but this is still good to have.
Last edited by 02nz on Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Silk McCue
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by Silk McCue »

02nz wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:37 am This thread (viewtopic.php?p=6157972) reminded me of an Apple Pay advantage that I don't believe has been mentioned in this thread: when you add a card to Apple Pay, by default your phone will show a notification each time a purchase is made, whether made with Apple Pay or not. This means you are likely to detect any fraudulent use of your card immediately. Granted, your liability for fraudulent use of a credit card liability is limited (or zero) in most cases, but this is still good to have.
I use Apple Wallet on my iPhone and only receive notifications when I use Apple Pay. I just checked to confirm that I do not receive notifications when I use the physical bank cards for payment. I had two transactions using two physical cards yesterday and confirmed this. I don't see how this could work as Apple Wallet can't monitor my credit accounts and my credit card providers aren't going to notify my Apple Wallet.

I could see the Apple Card acting like this but not other providers.

Maybe I misunderstood what you are saying.

Cheers
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by 02nz »

Silk McCue wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:58 am
02nz wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:37 am This thread (viewtopic.php?p=6157972) reminded me of an Apple Pay advantage that I don't believe has been mentioned in this thread: when you add a card to Apple Pay, by default your phone will show a notification each time a purchase is made, whether made with Apple Pay or not. This means you are likely to detect any fraudulent use of your card immediately. Granted, your liability for fraudulent use of a credit card liability is limited (or zero) in most cases, but this is still good to have.
I use Apple Wallet on my iPhone and only receive notifications when I use Apple Pay. I just checked to confirm that I do not receive notifications when I use the physical bank cards for payment. I had two transactions using two physical cards yesterday and confirmed this. I don't see how this could work as Apple Wallet can't monitor my credit accounts and my credit card providers aren't going to notify my Apple Wallet.

I could see the Apple Card acting like this but not other providers.

Maybe I misunderstood what you are saying.

Cheers
I double-checked, and at least for my cards Amex and US Bank cards, tapping the ... icon in the top right in the wallet app shows all of my recent transactions, including those NOT made with Apple Pay. And I got notifications for them as well. However, for my Chase card only Apple Pay transactions show. So it appears to vary by card issuer.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by ZinCO »

02nz wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:13 am
Silk McCue wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:58 am
02nz wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 8:37 am This thread (viewtopic.php?p=6157972) reminded me of an Apple Pay advantage that I don't believe has been mentioned in this thread: when you add a card to Apple Pay, by default your phone will show a notification each time a purchase is made, whether made with Apple Pay or not. This means you are likely to detect any fraudulent use of your card immediately. Granted, your liability for fraudulent use of a credit card liability is limited (or zero) in most cases, but this is still good to have.
I use Apple Wallet on my iPhone and only receive notifications when I use Apple Pay. I just checked to confirm that I do not receive notifications when I use the physical bank cards for payment. I had two transactions using two physical cards yesterday and confirmed this. I don't see how this could work as Apple Wallet can't monitor my credit accounts and my credit card providers aren't going to notify my Apple Wallet.

I could see the Apple Card acting like this but not other providers.

Maybe I misunderstood what you are saying.

Cheers
I double-checked, and at least for my cards Amex and US Bank cards, tapping the ... icon in the top right in the wallet app shows all of my recent transactions, including those NOT made with Apple Pay. And I got notifications for them as well. However, for my Chase card only Apple Pay transactions show. So it appears to vary by card issuer.
My Amex Biz Gold definitely gives me alerts through Apple Pay when I use the physical card, but I think it's the only one of the cards I have loaded into Apple Pay.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by jhd1945 »

Some restaurants are beginning to put codes on their checks that enable you to pay using Apple Wallet and even add a tip without having to wait in line to check out. You can designate any card that is loaded.
Crackerbarrel is one such resturant.
VERY CONVENIENT.
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Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by jebmke »

Big Mig wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:01 pm This seems like a 2018 discussion—is this really still a thing? I haven’t been since 2019 but it seemed even then Europe was well on its way to adopting tap-to-pay and the pandemic only accelerated this. I’d be a little surprised if public transit and parking kiosks and unattended gas stations weren’t contactless now.

Even then for train tickets I guess you could run into the transaction limit (which might be as low as €50?)—but that’s why you use your phone. Since Apple Pay/Google Pay require biometric authentication (maybe you can still use a PIN?) they generally have a higher per-transaction limit.
When I lived in Europe my debit card (more prevalent than credit cards there then) had a chip on it called Proton. One could load cash into the chip, generally in small amounts (say, 50-100 Euros) and the chip card could be used at various machines like parking meters, drink machines, toll plazas -- really anywhere a card could be inserted -- without using the pin. Essentially it was electronic currency. This was almost 20 years ago; smartphones didn't exist then. I used it a lot for small transactions to avoid having so many transactions on my bank statement.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
Big Mig
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:43 am

Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by Big Mig »

jebmke wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:23 am
Big Mig wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:01 pm This seems like a 2018 discussion—is this really still a thing? I haven’t been since 2019 but it seemed even then Europe was well on its way to adopting tap-to-pay and the pandemic only accelerated this. I’d be a little surprised if public transit and parking kiosks and unattended gas stations weren’t contactless now.

Even then for train tickets I guess you could run into the transaction limit (which might be as low as €50?)—but that’s why you use your phone. Since Apple Pay/Google Pay require biometric authentication (maybe you can still use a PIN?) they generally have a higher per-transaction limit.
When I lived in Europe my debit card (more prevalent than credit cards there then) had a chip on it called Proton. One could load cash into the chip, generally in small amounts (say, 50-100 Euros) and the chip card could be used at various machines like parking meters, drink machines, toll plazas -- really anywhere a card could be inserted -- without using the pin. Essentially it was electronic currency. This was almost 20 years ago; smartphones didn't exist then. I used it a lot for small transactions to avoid having so many transactions on my bank statement.
Things have changed a lot in 20 years, though not always in the ways we expected. Around 2005 I was sure Oyster cards in London would evolve to be used as payment cards at retailers (like Octupus cards in Hong Kong). But I don’t think it ever happened, and now tap-to-pay would make it pointless. But that part of my post was largely off-topic, I’m just surprised the Boglehead obsession with finding a real US chip-and-PIN card is still important in a contactless world.

The part you didn’t quote was more relevant to your original post. One reason to use Apple Pay instead of a contactless card is the higher transaction limit. You won’t be declined if you’re above the limit but you will have to go through additional verification so it’s not really contactless any more. If you’re just using it for small purchases this may not matter, and most of these limits have been raised during the pandemic anyway.
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jebmke
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Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: Apple Pay: value vs. chip credit card

Post by jebmke »

Yes, my use would be small payments. I rarely use my card — spouse is major user. I started setting it up last week but it required a card verification and the telephone wait time was 30 minutes. Will wait for a day when they aren’t as busy at the bank. Kind of surprised there is no way to verify online through my bank account.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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