Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
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Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
I’ll try to explain this as briefly as possible but I know there will be questions. My ex died two months ago from an accidental overdose of prescription meds. He had mental health issues. We had three children together, 25, 23, and 15. He was in Nevada. We are in OH, MI, and NY. His will left a HS friend as executor and sole beneficiary, presumably so the kids didn’t have to deal with his things. However, as far as my kids now, the executor (in Iowa) hasn’t been out to the apartment, the lease is up at the end of the month, and the remains are still at the funeral home because my kids don’t have the money to pay for their release.
Life insurance? He mentioned several times to my daughter (23) he had a folder of documents in case anything happened. No one really knows, but
what can my kids do? In general, I’ve tried to stay out of it except to take care of the 15 year old’s survivor benefits.
Our 25 year old didn’t talk to him much. He was friendly but disconnected. Our 23 year old hadn’t seen him in five years, but they had been FaceTiming the last six months.
Life insurance? He mentioned several times to my daughter (23) he had a folder of documents in case anything happened. No one really knows, but
what can my kids do? In general, I’ve tried to stay out of it except to take care of the 15 year old’s survivor benefits.
Our 25 year old didn’t talk to him much. He was friendly but disconnected. Our 23 year old hadn’t seen him in five years, but they had been FaceTiming the last six months.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy
One possibility is to check any known bank accounts or credit cards for regular payments for life insurance. Obviously, the person in charge of the estate has not stepped up yet and that issue is ultimately the one that will allow resolution of the issues.
Tim
Tim
Re: Locating a life insurance policy
Have you tried to contact the executor and if so what were the results of that?
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy
Since I am the ex, I haven’t contacted him, although I do know him. My adult kids have reached out a few times. My concern is what happens to his stuff when the lease is up next week.
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy
Nobody knows what accounts he had. I told my adult children of the last bank account I knew of, but as we know, only the executor can access that.Nowizard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:58 am One possibility is to check any known bank accounts or credit cards for regular payments for life insurance. Obviously, the person in charge of the estate has not stepped up yet and that issue is ultimately the one that will allow resolution of the issues.
Tim
- RickBoglehead
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy
The landlord should follow state law in handling the lease, and the contents. If anyone reaches out to the landlord, it's likely they'll say "either pay rent or we'll empty the apartment and do "whatever the law allows" with the contents".Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:17 amSince I am the ex, I haven’t contacted him, although I do know him. My adult kids have reached out a few times. My concern is what happens to his stuff when the lease is up next week.
As far as financial things - bank accounts for example - anyone can send a copy of the death certificate (which anyone can obtain for a fee) - to a bank and see if they are a beneficiary on an account - which takes the executor out of the picture.
Same with life insurance - if you know who holds the policy, you can send a copy of the death certificate and if you're a beneficiary of the policy, you'll get the payout.
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy
Do you know if your ex had a will? If so, that will govern disposition of his estate, except for life insurance, 401(k), and other plans that have a named beneficiary. If not, I believe that his children could be entitled split the estate.
You say in your post that the HS friend was executor and sole beneficiary. That implies that there is a will.
I am not a lawyer. I do not know how your children, as potential beneficiaries of life insurance, 401(k) plans, etc can force an executor to move through the process of distributing assets.
I think that your question is broader than life insurance. You might consider changing the title of the thread to something like “How can I get the executor of my ex’s estate to do his job”. A title like that should draw more views and comments.
You say in your post that the HS friend was executor and sole beneficiary. That implies that there is a will.
I am not a lawyer. I do not know how your children, as potential beneficiaries of life insurance, 401(k) plans, etc can force an executor to move through the process of distributing assets.
I think that your question is broader than life insurance. You might consider changing the title of the thread to something like “How can I get the executor of my ex’s estate to do his job”. A title like that should draw more views and comments.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy
Thanks for the suggestion on the title. I’m walking a fine line in this, but I feel like my kids are in limbo land. It’s made even more complicated because of the strained (not estranged) relationship.Stinky wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:27 am Do you know if your ex had a will? If so, that will govern disposition of his estate, except for life insurance, 401(k), and other plans that have a named beneficiary. If not, I believe that his children could be entitled split the estate.
You say in your post that the HS friend was executor and sole beneficiary. That implies that there is a will.
I am not a lawyer. I do not know how your children, as potential beneficiaries of life insurance, 401(k) plans, etc can force an executor to move through the process of distributing assets.
I think that your question is broader than life insurance. You might consider changing the title of the thread to something like “How can I get the executor of my ex’s estate to do his job”. A title like that should draw more views and comments.
Yes, there is a will. I policies I was aware of, he cashed out over the last few years. He got into Bitcoin. He are well aware of the the issues with that.
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy
My daughter has death certificates. The issue is no one has any idea what policies and exist. All records would be in his apartment in Las Vegas.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:22 amThe landlord should follow state law in handling the lease, and the contents. If anyone reaches out to the landlord, it's likely they'll say "either pay rent or we'll empty the apartment and do "whatever the law allows" with the contents".Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:17 amSince I am the ex, I haven’t contacted him, although I do know him. My adult kids have reached out a few times. My concern is what happens to his stuff when the lease is up next week.
As far as financial things - bank accounts for example - anyone can send a copy of the death certificate (which anyone can obtain for a fee) - to a bank and see if they are a beneficiary on an account - which takes the executor out of the picture.
Same with life insurance - if you know who holds the policy, you can send a copy of the death certificate and if you're a beneficiary of the policy, you'll get the payout.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
^^^ I took a stab at editing the thread title. If you want to change it further, just edit the Subject: line in Post #1.
Did you know that the life insurance companies have a free service for just this situation (someone passes and the beneficiaries don't know the policy details)?
See the wiki: Life insurance (Locating a lost policy)
In addition to insurance, you should also check for unclaimed property, which is the Search for your unclaimed property link in the wiki's life insurance page.
Did you know that the life insurance companies have a free service for just this situation (someone passes and the beneficiaries don't know the policy details)?
See the wiki: Life insurance (Locating a lost policy)
In addition to insurance, you should also check for unclaimed property, which is the Search for your unclaimed property link in the wiki's life insurance page.
- lthenderson
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Since this is apparently a timely matter and it sounds like the executor might not really care what happens, I would probably have one of the kids go in person to his apartment, inform the landlord they are a child and see if they can be let in to see what can be found. I would also let the executor know that this is happening and what the results of the search found. I find as with many things in life, it is much harder to get a negative answer or ignore your question when you are face to face with them.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
There is little you can do to force the executor to move forward quickly. I’ve been a beneficiary in a will once and it took nearly 10 months to get a $5,000 check. There may be state laws that require probate to be finished in a certain amount of time, and I assume an executor can be held liable if they screw things up — like say fail to deal with an apartment full of belongings and all of that stuff gets thrown out. Life insurance doesn’t pass through the estate, so I would think if you can locate the policy number the beneficiaries could move to collect without the executor.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Just to say it again, the issues may be broader than life insurance policies.
While most assets are distributed according to instructions in a will, I believe that life insurance, workplace savings plans like 401(k)s, and IRAs have separate beneficiary designations. You children may very well be named as beneficiaries of such products.
While most assets are distributed according to instructions in a will, I believe that life insurance, workplace savings plans like 401(k)s, and IRAs have separate beneficiary designations. You children may very well be named as beneficiaries of such products.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Yes. We are focusing on the supposed life insurance policy because he cashed out his previous workplace and retirement accounts and has not been employed regularly for many years. He actually worked for an insurance agency briefly two years ago. My son called the office snd found out that he took that retirement money out to put into Bitcoin last year. The office manager tried to talk him out of it.Stinky wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:47 am Just to say it again, the issues may be broader than life insurance policies.
While most assets are distributed according to instructions in a will, I believe that life insurance, workplace savings plans like 401(k)s, and IRAs have separate beneficiary designations. You children may very well be named as beneficiaries of such products.
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
If the executor will go to the apartment, then my kids can get policy numbers. Right now, there’s no other way to locate them.Jags4186 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:45 am There is little you can do to force the executor to move forward quickly. I’ve been a beneficiary in a will once and it took nearly 10 months to get a $5,000 check. There may be state laws that require probate to be finished in a certain amount of time, and I assume an executor can be held liable if they screw things up — like say fail to deal with an apartment full of belongings and all of that stuff gets thrown out. Life insurance doesn’t pass through the estate, so I would think if you can locate the policy number the beneficiaries could move to collect without the executor.
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Thank you for changing the title. I was not aware the locator service. It’s only been two months, so nothing has showed up in unclaimed funds yet. Thank you!LadyGeek wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:40 am ^^^ I took a stab at editing the thread title. If you want to change it further, just edit the Subject: line in Post #1.
Did you know that the life insurance companies have a free service for just this situation (someone passes and the beneficiaries don't know the policy details)?
See the wiki: Life insurance (Locating a lost policy)
In addition to insurance, you should also check for unclaimed property, which is the Search for your unclaimed property link in the wiki's life insurance page.
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
They were already told they can’t go in by the landlord. They had to cancel the original trip (that I paid for because they can’t afford it right now).lthenderson wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:41 am Since this is apparently a timely matter and it sounds like the executor might not really care what happens, I would probably have one of the kids go in person to his apartment, inform the landlord they are a child and see if they can be let in to see what can be found. I would also let the executor know that this is happening and what the results of the search found. I find as with many things in life, it is much harder to get a negative answer or ignore your question when you are face to face with them.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
If your minor child was issue of the marriage between you and the decedent then you should contact an attorney in Nevada who is experienced in the administration of estates. While I am not admitted to the practice of law in that state, it appears that your minor child is likely entitled to some or all of the assets of the estate regardless of the provisions in the will naming the decedent's friend as the sole beneficiary.
I would respectfully suggest that time is of the essence when considering all of the circumstances you have outlined and you should act promptly to ensure that your minor child's rights are adequately protected. If the named executor is neglecting their obligations, then the attorney can petition the court for relief in that regard as well.
Best wishes.
I would respectfully suggest that time is of the essence when considering all of the circumstances you have outlined and you should act promptly to ensure that your minor child's rights are adequately protected. If the named executor is neglecting their obligations, then the attorney can petition the court for relief in that regard as well.
Best wishes.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Will his state's department of insurance be able to help? I'd contact them, in addition to wiki info.
FWIW the type of person you've described - mental health concerns, friend named in will, unemployed, withdrawn retirement plans, little relationship with children, etc. - doesn't sound like the kind of person to have kept life insurance policies active and with child(ren) as beneficiary.
I'd still make efforts to confirm, but unfortunately, I wouldn't expect positive results.
FWIW the type of person you've described - mental health concerns, friend named in will, unemployed, withdrawn retirement plans, little relationship with children, etc. - doesn't sound like the kind of person to have kept life insurance policies active and with child(ren) as beneficiary.
I'd still make efforts to confirm, but unfortunately, I wouldn't expect positive results.
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Yes. We are aware that there may be nothing. Everyone was shocked but no one was surprised. Both my 15 year old and my 23 year old expressed concerns about him dying this year.gr7070 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:13 am Will his state's department of insurance be able to help? I'd contact them, in addition to wiki info.
FWIW the type of person you've described - mental health concerns, friend named in will, unemployed, withdrawn retirement plans, little relationship with children, etc. - doesn't sound like the kind of person to have kept life insurance policies active and with child(ren) as beneficiary.
I'd still make efforts to confirm, but unfortunately, I wouldn't expect positive results.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
This is excellent advice.galawdawg wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:49 am If your minor child was issue of the marriage between you and the decedent then you should contact an attorney in Nevada who is experienced in the administration of estates. While I am not admitted to the practice of law in that state, it appears that your minor child is likely entitled to some or all of the assets of the estate regardless of the provisions in the will naming the decedent's friend as the sole beneficiary.
I would respectfully suggest that time is of the essence when considering all of the circumstances you have outlined and you should act promptly to ensure that your minor child's rights are adequately protected. If the named executor is neglecting their obligations, then the attorney can petition the court for relief in that regard as well.
Best wishes.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
- RickBoglehead
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Exactly as the landlord should have done. They have no legal right to enter.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:42 am
They were already told they can’t go in by the landlord. They had to cancel the original trip (that I paid for because they can’t afford it right now).
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
I am not a lawyer but I don’t believe the named executor is actually legally the executor unless he takes some actions to accept that role. It appears he has not yet done that. Since he isn’t stepping up, you as the parent of the minor child of the deceased should be taking action to preserve your child’s claim (and helping with the other children’s as well).
I’d hire an estate attorney today in the state your ex lived in, and let them advise you all on the next steps. Good luck.
I’d hire an estate attorney today in the state your ex lived in, and let them advise you all on the next steps. Good luck.
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
He did legally accept the role. I just talked to my oldest, and he is contacting the executor today to find out what is going on. Then I’ll make a call if necessary. Thank you.lostinjersey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:38 am I am not a lawyer but I don’t believe the named executor is actually legally the executor unless he takes some actions to accept that role. It appears he has not yet done that. Since he isn’t stepping up, you as the parent of the minor child of the deceased should be taking action to preserve your child’s claim (and helping with the other children’s as well).
I’d hire an estate attorney today in the state your ex lived in, and let them advise you all on the next steps. Good luck.
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Yes. We didn’t know they weren’t in the will at that time.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:34 amExactly as the landlord should have done. They have no legal right to enter.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:42 am
They were already told they can’t go in by the landlord. They had to cancel the original trip (that I paid for because they can’t afford it right now).
- dodecahedron
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Without going into the home, it is hard to rule out the possibility that a later will might exist making alternate provisions for the children and/or naming some other executor.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:56 amYes. We didn’t know they weren’t in the will at that time.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:34 amExactly as the landlord should have done. They have no legal right to enter.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:42 am
They were already told they can’t go in by the landlord. They had to cancel the original trip (that I paid for because they can’t afford it right now).
How did the executor obtain their copy of the will if they did not go into the apartment?
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Interesting point. It was filed in his hometown in Iowa a few years ago. I think a sister tracked it down.dodecahedron wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:04 amWithout going into the home, it is hard to rule out the possibility that a later will might exist making alternate provisions for the children and/or naming some other executor.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:56 amYes. We didn’t know they weren’t in the will at that time.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:34 amExactly as the landlord should have done. They have no legal right to enter.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:42 am
They were already told they can’t go in by the landlord. They had to cancel the original trip (that I paid for because they can’t afford it right now).
How did the executor obtain their copy of the will if they did not go into the apartment?
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Even if they are in the will, the executor is the one provided access, not the heirs. Once the executor is provided access, then he/she may decide to give the heirs access, but that is up to the executor.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:56 amYes. We didn’t know they weren’t in the will at that time.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:34 amExactly as the landlord should have done. They have no legal right to enter.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:42 am
They were already told they can’t go in by the landlord. They had to cancel the original trip (that I paid for because they can’t afford it right now).
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Any Bitcoin purchased last year could very well have tripled or more in value.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:03 am My son called the office snd found out that he took that retirement money out to put into Bitcoin last year. The office manager tried to talk him out of it.
Not an attorney but doubt an out of state Will has much standing in Nevada before involvement of the probate court in Nevada, which sounds unlikely to have occurred yet. And, the provisions of that Will may be not valid in Nevada. As was suggested upstream, I'd contact an estate attorney in Nevada immediately. I'd be a bit concerned that any Bitcoin may be difficult to track down or vanish.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:15 am Interesting point. It was filed in his hometown in Iowa a few years ago. I think a sister tracked it down.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
... and "actions" should involve something like "made appropriate filings with the Nevada probate court since the death happened."lostinjersey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:38 am I am not a lawyer but I don’t believe the named executor is actually legally the executor unless he takes some actions to accept that role.
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Yes. They know that any Bitcoin asserts might not be accessible by anyone.Luckywon wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:12 pmAny Bitcoin purchased last year could very well have tripled or more in value.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:03 am My son called the office snd found out that he took that retirement money out to put into Bitcoin last year. The office manager tried to talk him out of it.
Not an attorney but doubt an out of state Will has much standing in Nevada before involvement of the probate court in Nevada, which sounds unlikely to have occurred yet. And, the provisions of that Will may be not valid in Nevada. As was suggested upstream, I'd contact an estate attorney in Nevada immediately. I'd be a bit concerned that any Bitcoin may be difficult to track down or vanish.Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:15 am Interesting point. It was filed in his hometown in Iowa a few years ago. I think a sister tracked it down.
Another interesting observation about the out of state will.
It’s honestly in my children’s best interest not to be named executor. Neither of them is in a place in life to be handling these things particularly from a distance. Not that it’s ever easy.
There’s always more to the story, but my ex’s mental health is at the root of most of it.
Last edited by Determined on Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
I will ask my son to get copies of the legal paperwork regarding the executor’s appointment.increment wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:39 pm... and "actions" should involve something like "made appropriate filings with the Nevada probate court since the death happened."lostinjersey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:38 am I am not a lawyer but I don’t believe the named executor is actually legally the executor unless he takes some actions to accept that role.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
+1. A will doesn't appoint an executor/personal representative. A court does. Has the will been filed with the court and has the nominated individual petitioned the court for letters of appointment? If not, than it likely is in the court's hands. I would start by calling the circuit court and asking them for status. If the county has a public administrator, that person may be the one "in charge" of the estate at this point, particularly considering that over 30 days have passed. You can hire an attorney, but they won't work for free and may not be necessary. See my signature.lostinjersey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:38 am I am not a lawyer but I don’t believe the named executor is actually legally the executor unless he takes some actions to accept that role. It appears he has not yet done that. Since he isn’t stepping up, you as the parent of the minor child of the deceased should be taking action to preserve your child’s claim (and helping with the other children’s as well).
I’d hire an estate attorney today in the state your ex lived in, and let them advise you all on the next steps. Good luck.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
The OP (and others) should be aware that in most states a non-lawyer parent is not authorized to represent their minor child in legal proceedings. Doing such is often a criminal offense, including in Nevada, where the first offense is a misdemeanor. Given the facts presented, suggesting that a Nevada lawyer may not be necessary for the OP to ensure that her minor child's rights to inherit from his/her deceased father are protected is poor advice. 1FIREchief wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:38 pm...You can hire an attorney, but they won't work for free and may not be necessary.lostinjersey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:38 am ...I’d hire an estate attorney today in the state your ex lived in, and let them advise you all on the next steps. Good luck.
While the OP could certainly contact the district court in Clark County to ascertain whether the will was timely filed by a person in possession of the will in accordance with Nevada law (NRS 136.050), attempting as an non-lawyer (who resides out-of-state and appears to have very limited knowledge of the law) to do anything beyond that, other than retaining competent and qualified legal counsel, would be unwise.
As a practical matter, some lawyers take such cases on a percentage-fee basis of two to four percent of the estate value (NRS 150.061). And if the personal representative can track down significant assets (including but not limited to BTC), then OP's minor child could benefit greatly. OP may have to make some calls to find a qualified attorney who would take this matter on a percentage-fee basis. She could start here: https://nvbar.org/for-the-public/find-a-lawyer/lrs/
1And frankly, not very entertaining!
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Good points, but you're reading a whole lot of things between the lines there. My assumption is that the decedent is a deadbeat and there's nothing to inherit. If there is life insurance (which was the only thing mentioned), it would likely name beneficiaries and could be paid out without paid legal assistance. Should the OP pay $5000 for a lawyer only to find out that the minor child is entitled to 33% of a $10K burial policy?galawdawg wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:36 pmThe OP (and others) should be aware that in most states a non-lawyer parent is not authorized to represent their minor child in legal proceedings. Doing such is often a criminal offense, including in Nevada, where the first offense is a misdemeanor. Given the facts presented, suggesting that a Nevada lawyer may not be necessary for the OP to ensure that her minor child's rights to inherit from his/her deceased father are protected is poor advice.FIREchief wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:38 pm+1. A will doesn't appoint an executor/personal representative. A court does. Has the will been filed with the court and has the nominated individual petitioned the court for letters of appointment? If not, than it likely is in the court's hands. I would start by calling the circuit court and asking them for status. If the county has a public administrator, that person may be the one "in charge" of the estate at this point, particularly considering that over 30 days have passed. You can hire an attorney, but they won't work for free and may not be necessary. See my signature.lostinjersey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:38 am I am not a lawyer but I don’t believe the named executor is actually legally the executor unless he takes some actions to accept that role. It appears he has not yet done that. Since he isn’t stepping up, you as the parent of the minor child of the deceased should be taking action to preserve your child’s claim (and helping with the other children’s as well).
I’d hire an estate attorney today in the state your ex lived in, and let them advise you all on the next steps. Good luck.
Did I suggest "anything beyond that?"While the OP could certainly contact the district court in Clark County to ascertain whether the will was timely filed by a person in possession of the will in accordance with Nevada law (NRS 136.050), attempting as an non-lawyer (who resides out-of-state and appears to have very limited knowledge of the law) to do anything beyond that, other than retaining competent and qualified legal counsel, would be unwise.
Or just let the adult children investigate and pass along what they find out? It sounds like there is no named executor at this point so any tracking would be accomplished by an impartial public administrator or court appointee. Am I mistaken about that?As a practical matter, some lawyers take such cases on a percentage-fee basis of two to four percent of the estate value (NRS 150.061). And if the personal representative can track down significant assets (including but not limited to BTC), then OP's minor child could benefit greatly. OP may have to make some calls to find a qualified attorney who would take this matter on a percentage-fee basis. She could start here: https://nvbar.org/for-the-public/find-a-lawyer/lrs/
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Look, while our standard advice is IANYL, this is a legal question, you should hire your own attorney, I cannot stress how badly you need an attorney.
The other option is do nothing and give up any claims and let the process play out on its own.
- You don't think that even your grown children are able to handle this
You cannot represent your youngest in court
There are missing/unknown assets
You are dealing with a possibly, but most likely hostile executor
You are dealing with a possible disinheritance
You are dealing with an out of state death
I could go on
The other option is do nothing and give up any claims and let the process play out on its own.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
No offense but making an assumption that a decedent was insolvent with no assets and therefore attempting to dissuade the OP from hiring legal counsel is unwise. If there is nothing to inherit, so be it. But if no effort is made to preserve the child's rights under Nevada law and to make diligent search for and marshal any assets of the decedent, then that fatalistic outlook becomes reality.FIREchief wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:44 pm Good points, but you're reading a whole lot of things between the lines there. My assumption is that the decedent is a deadbeat and there's nothing to inherit. If there is life insurance (which was the only thing mentioned), it would likely name beneficiaries and could be paid out without paid legal assistance. Should the OP pay $5000 for a lawyer only to find out that the minor child is entitled to 33% of a $10K burial policy?
Did I suggest "anything beyond that?"While the OP could certainly contact the district court in Clark County to ascertain whether the will was timely filed by a person in possession of the will in accordance with Nevada law (NRS 136.050), attempting as an non-lawyer (who resides out-of-state and appears to have very limited knowledge of the law) to do anything beyond that, other than retaining competent and qualified legal counsel, would be unwise.
Or just let the adult children investigate and pass along what they find out? It sounds like there is no named executor at this point so any tracking would be accomplished by an impartial public administrator or court appointee. Am I mistaken about that?As a practical matter, some lawyers take such cases on a percentage-fee basis of two to four percent of the estate value (NRS 150.061). And if the personal representative can track down significant assets (including but not limited to BTC), then OP's minor child could benefit greatly. OP may have to make some calls to find a qualified attorney who would take this matter on a percentage-fee basis. She could start here: https://nvbar.org/for-the-public/find-a-lawyer/lrs/
Additionally, if the decedent's HS friend, who resides in Iowa, has not filed the will (which must be done within thirty days) nor taken steps to preserve the estate assets (including the decedent's possessions in the apartment) then time may be critical. It has already been two months since the death. Further delay could result in the destruction of those records that could establish what assets and/or life insurance policies the decedent may have owned. What if the decedent owned $500k of BTC and all of the information on accessing that is written down on a sheet of paper in the apartment? Steps should be taken quickly to maintain the status quo and that will require the assistance of a Nevada attorney.
I also noted the OP's comments about neither of her adult children being "in a place in life to be handling these things particularly from a distance"1, their respective residences in the Midwest and Northeast US, and the landlord's denial of access to the decedent's apartment. All of those factors further suggest that this is not a situation for a DIY approach.
What makes you think OP will spend $5k on a lawyer for an estate that has no assets? Did you note my comments about Nevada's fee structure for probate cases?
Whether OP takes any action on the recommendations of myself and others to consult with qualified Nevada legal counsel is up to OP. But I respectfully suggest that given the facts presented by the OP, that is the wisest course of action at this point.
1However, I did note that despite that comment, the OP seems to be relying upon (and even tasking) her adult children to handle inquiries, locate documents, travel to the apartment in NV, and speak with the nominated executor and heir apparent on behalf of the OP's minor child. Without implying judgment, that suggests that the OP may lack the interest, ability and/or willingness to act herself in regards to any legal rights of her minor child in the estate.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
If OP abandon's the pursuit, OP's children are guaranteed nothing. It won't cost them anything either. But they most certainly get nothing.
If the only asset is a life insurance policy, the insurer will eventually track down the beneficiary or put it into unclaimed assets.
If there is anything else on the line, OP's children need to assert their rights to have a chance at reclaiming it. What their rights are? I don't know. Initial consultations for probate contestations are typically free since they typically run on a commission based fee schedule; even more so if it's a Zoom or phone call (in fact, most specialties don't charge for an initial phone call meeting). OP has nothing to lose other than a few hours of phone calls. OP can talk to an attorney on behalf of her minor child.
If the only asset is a life insurance policy, the insurer will eventually track down the beneficiary or put it into unclaimed assets.
If there is anything else on the line, OP's children need to assert their rights to have a chance at reclaiming it. What their rights are? I don't know. Initial consultations for probate contestations are typically free since they typically run on a commission based fee schedule; even more so if it's a Zoom or phone call (in fact, most specialties don't charge for an initial phone call meeting). OP has nothing to lose other than a few hours of phone calls. OP can talk to an attorney on behalf of her minor child.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
I think you guys are putting the cart before the horse by demanding that the OP hire a lawyer NOW!! Why not first contact the courts in a (free) attempt to gain some understanding as to where they are at in the process? If nobody petitioned to serve as executor (which may be highly likely based upon what we know), won't the courts appoint the public administrator to probate the will? If that's the case, other than making certain that the public administrator is aware of who the kids are, why would paid legal representation be necessary? Is it possible? Sure. But after two months of nothing, I would think a phone call or two might first be in order.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Because the only information the court will release is whether there is a case under decedent’s name. Anything else is state specific and quite honestly, I haven’t bothered to look up Nevada’s self help procedures.FIREchief wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:02 pm I think you guys are putting the cart before the horse by demanding that the OP hire a lawyer NOW!! Why not first contact the courts in a (free) attempt to gain some understanding as to where they are at in the process? If nobody petitioned to serve as executor (which may be highly likely based upon what we know), won't the courts appoint the public administrator to probate the will? If that's the case, other than making certain that the public administrator is aware of who the kids are, why would paid legal representation be necessary? Is it possible? Sure. But after two months of nothing, I would think a phone call or two might first be in order.
To your bolded part: because the decedent has been accused of disinheriting his children.
To your last sentence: that’s what I said. The first process in getting a lawyer is calling one or three up, which is what we typically mean when we say “get a lawyer”. It is a cop out response, but it is also ethics 101.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
I wasn't attempting to "dissuade" the OP from doing anything. That is just my assumption and I'm fully (and legally) entitled to it. No offense, but when a lawyer's first step is "hire a lawyer" it doesn't necessarily mean that is the optimal approach, nor does is preclude hiring a lawyer once a few more facts are known.
Isn't the bolded the full right and responsibility of the personal representative?If there is nothing to inherit, so be it. But if no effort is made to preserve the child's rights under Nevada law and to make diligent search for and marshal any assets of the decedent, then that fatalistic outlook becomes reality.
Additionally, if the decedent's HS friend, who resides in Iowa, has not filed the will (which must be done within thirty days) nor taken steps to preserve the estate assets (including the decedent's possessions in the apartment) then time may be critical.
Are you assuming that the HS friend is in possession of the will? This sounds like the old catch 22. The Will that nominates the executor is in the decedent's apartment but only the executor has legal right to enter said apartment.
I believe you are again describing the sole role and responsibility of a personal representative. I'm not seeing how a Nevada attorney is going to change that unless the OP intends to petition the court to be named as such (which likely would make little sense).It has already been two months since the death. Further delay could result in the destruction of those records that could establish what assets and/or life insurance policies the decedent may have owned. What if the decedent owned $500k of BTC and all of the information on accessing that is written down on a sheet of paper in the apartment? Steps should be taken quickly to maintain the status quo and that will require the assistance of a Nevada attorney.
I believe that the landlord's actions are correct unless or until a personal representative is appointed by the courts. In the absence of letters of appointment, why would the landlord let somebody access the apartment?I also noted the OP's comments about neither of her adult children being "in a place in life to be handling these things particularly from a distance"1, their respective residences in the Midwest and Northeast US, and the landlord's denial of access to the decedent's apartment. All of those factors further suggest that this is not a situation for a DIY approach.
It was a guess. All I know for certain is that a lawyer isn't going to do anything without getting paid and as long as somebody has money to pay, they likely don't care if the estate has any assets or not. You now seem to be assuming that the OP can hire an attorney to probate the will, which would imply that the OP is serving as personal representative, which is highly unlikely.What makes you think OP will spend $5k on a lawyer for an estate that has no assets? Did you note my comments about Nevada's fee structure for probate cases?
Perhaps at some point. Perhaps tomorrow. Maybe not right now.Whether OP takes any action on the recommendations of myself and others to consult with qualified Nevada legal counsel is up to OP. But I respectfully suggest that given the facts presented by the OP, that is the wisest course of action at this point.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Wouldn't even that be useful at this point? Also, if you call the court they'll likely tell you what they can and not tell you what they can't. Again, won't cost a thing.
If his will legally left everything to his HS friend, how will hiring a lawyer change that?To your bolded part: because the decedent has been accused of disinheriting his children.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Do you have a copy of this will?Determined wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:50 am His will left a HS friend as executor and sole beneficiary
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
The fact that you don't know the answer to that question is an example of a very common but significant risk of a DIY approach to legal matters. One often doesn't know what they don't know.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
No. What are you going to do with that information? Call a lawyer? Might as well just skip ahead to step 2.FIREchief wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:27 pmWouldn't even that be useful at this point? Also, if you call the court they'll likely tell you what they can and not tell you what they can't. Again, won't cost a thing.
If his will legally left everything to his HS friend, how will hiring a lawyer change that?To your bolded part: because the decedent has been accused of disinheriting his children.
If they wish to challenge the will (or in actual fact the assumption that the will disinherits the children (OP hasn't seen it)), they need to hire a lawyer. Otherwise, walk away. Those are the two choices presented to OP and her children.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
For the tenth time, I never advocated a DIY approach to legal matters, although I can certainly understand your sensitivity to such things. I was merely pointing out that it may be possible to gain some very useful information for free before handing a credit card to a lawyer.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Well, if they can easily find out if a will has even been filed, wouldn't that be useful information? How about if a will has been filed and formal probate initiated? Would that be useful? If probate has been started, wouldn't the name of the personal representative be public record? Would that be useful? Does a person need to pay a lawyer to answer any/all of those? You're jumping well beyond "step 2." All of those things I mentioned can happen before your two choices (hire a will or walk away). Why are you guys so against the OP just doing a bit of easy homework? We're supposedly Bogleheadish about things here.Lee_WSP wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:36 pm No. What are you going to do with that information? Call a lawyer? Might as well just skip ahead to step 2.
If they wish to challenge the will (or in actual fact the assumption that the will disinherits the children (OP hasn't seen it)), they need to hire a lawyer. Otherwise, walk away. Those are the two choices presented to OP and her children.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
Part 1: Useful? Sort of. But OP already knows all that information if you read her responses. How useful? Not very. IMO.FIREchief wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:35 pmWell, if they can easily find out if a will has even been filed, wouldn't that be useful information? How about if a will has been filed and formal probate initiated? Would that be useful? If probate has been started, wouldn't the name of the personal representative be public record? Would that be useful?Lee_WSP wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 5:36 pm No. What are you going to do with that information? Call a lawyer? Might as well just skip ahead to step 2.
If they wish to challenge the will (or in actual fact the assumption that the will disinherits the children (OP hasn't seen it)), they need to hire a lawyer. Otherwise, walk away. Those are the two choices presented to OP and her children.
Does a person need to pay a lawyer to answer any/all of those?
You're jumping well beyond "step 2." All of those things I mentioned can happen before your two choices (hire a will or walk away). Why are you guys so against the OP just doing a bit of easy homework? We're supposedly Bogleheadish about things here.
Part 2: See above as OP already has that information, so I think we're talking past each other on this issue.
Part 3: No, not really. Sure, my experience and training may lead to some "short cuts" in my logic, but it's where OP is going to end up if the facts presented are true. Executor is either hostile or unresponsive and his interests are purportedly adverse to OP's children. Decedent has purportedly disinherited his children. At this point, you either enter into a will contest, or you don't. There is sometimes a third option of negotiating, but I'm not going to opine on this option as OP needs legal expertise to guide her and I'm not her lawyer.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
All I could find was a comment that a will was filed in Iowa and that the person they think was nominated executor has "legally accepted" the role. That is hardly the same as being told by the appropriate court in Nevada that a will had been formally filed in that jurisdiction and that a probate process has begun. Did I miss that?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Re: Locating a life insurance policy [via the executor of an estate]
My apologies if I misinterpreted that portion of your post that read "You can hire an attorney, but they won't work for free and may not be necessary." However, I fail to understand how the OP would seek enforcement of the legal rights of her minor child to inherit under Nevada law without consulting with legal counsel. None of the recommendations you have posted would protect the legal rights of the minor child.FIREchief wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:30 pmFor the tenth time, I never advocated a DIY approach to legal matters, although I can certainly understand your sensitivity to such things. I was merely pointing out that it may be possible to gain some very useful information for free before handing a credit card to a lawyer.
But I won't debate this further as I believe it is distracting from the purpose of OP's thread...we may simply need to agree to disagree. OP can certainly attempt to locate any life insurance policy which names her minor child as a beneficiary (which would not be part of the estate) on her own. However, protection of her minor child's rights to inherit under Nevada law will require a consultation with legal counsel.
To answer your question, the OP's minor child is likely legally entitled to inherit regardless of contrary provisions in the decedent's will (as I mentioned earlier). Most, if not all, states do not legally permit a decedent to disinherit their minor child(ren). That includes Nevada.