Traffic violation in CA
Traffic violation in CA
Hi,
I recently got a minor traffic violation. I did not stop at red light while making right turn. I was supposed to stop like for a stop sign, and then turn right. This is captured on camera - both photo & video.
I read on Internet that this involves $500 fine and 1 point on driving record. It can increase my premium by 20% for the next 3 years.
I am given 2 options:
1. Pay the bail amount, and the point goes on the driving record.
It says I may be able to avoid point by requesting traffic school. The school avoids the point & increase in insurance. But I pay the bail & also some additional fees.
2. Court trial.
Is there anyone who has experience with this? Any guidance what to do?
My defense is that I was going at 11mph at 30mph zone (as they have documented). The camera shows that I am looking in the direction of the incoming traffic as I am turning right. And finally as I was taking right turn on a street A from street B; the cars from street A were taking left turn on street B; thus covering my car from any incoming traffic.
Your help is appreciated.
I recently got a minor traffic violation. I did not stop at red light while making right turn. I was supposed to stop like for a stop sign, and then turn right. This is captured on camera - both photo & video.
I read on Internet that this involves $500 fine and 1 point on driving record. It can increase my premium by 20% for the next 3 years.
I am given 2 options:
1. Pay the bail amount, and the point goes on the driving record.
It says I may be able to avoid point by requesting traffic school. The school avoids the point & increase in insurance. But I pay the bail & also some additional fees.
2. Court trial.
Is there anyone who has experience with this? Any guidance what to do?
My defense is that I was going at 11mph at 30mph zone (as they have documented). The camera shows that I am looking in the direction of the incoming traffic as I am turning right. And finally as I was taking right turn on a street A from street B; the cars from street A were taking left turn on street B; thus covering my car from any incoming traffic.
Your help is appreciated.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
11 mph to go through a red light is pretty fast, nowhere near stopped. You violated the law and got caught, with the evidence they have court is a waste of time. Pay your fine, take the traffic school and move on.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
If you acknowledge that you committed the offense, and you're able to pay the fine, I would just do that and move on. California has various "online" traffic school's you can pick from in most areas that are cheap and easy to get through.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-i ... hool-list/
If it wasn't you driving, you don't believe you did anything wrong, or you want to ask the court forgiveness of the fine (because you don't have the money)... then I would go to court.
I am always interested to know how that works out. I find these things intriguing, and since the 6th amendment gives you the right to face the witness accusing you of the crime, I'm curious how that works when it's a robot.
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-i ... hool-list/
If it wasn't you driving, you don't believe you did anything wrong, or you want to ask the court forgiveness of the fine (because you don't have the money)... then I would go to court.
I am always interested to know how that works out. I find these things intriguing, and since the 6th amendment gives you the right to face the witness accusing you of the crime, I'm curious how that works when it's a robot.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
Re: Traffic violation in CA
On-line traffic school and paying the fine/fees is the easiest way of getting past this.
But if you've had one or more other recent tickets you might want to explore options further.
But if you've had one or more other recent tickets you might want to explore options further.
Last edited by 123 on Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
What you describe used to be called a Hollywood Stop. A rolling 'stop' is a big no-no. Doesn't matter which way you were looking.
Traffic school is like a get-out-of-jail-card. (except you have to pay for the school.) But no points on your record, which is well worth the cost of traffic school.
Traffic school is like a get-out-of-jail-card. (except you have to pay for the school.) But no points on your record, which is well worth the cost of traffic school.
-
- Posts: 1039
- Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:13 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
online traffic school is an easy option. recommend the best price option as all are dull, but informative.
-
- Posts: 5994
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Online traffic school, just did one for an AZ speed camera ticket (52 in a 40). Did the class in about 2 hours and the ticket was dismissed.
I used "Low Cost Easy Quick Defensive Driving Academy"
Most of these places work in multiple states.
I used "Low Cost Easy Quick Defensive Driving Academy"
Most of these places work in multiple states.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
This...BogleFan510 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:27 pm online traffic school is an easy option. recommend the best price option as all are dull, but informative.
There is at least one on the list of licensed schools named "Five Dollar Traffic School", and that's what it costs, $5.
Might be some even cheaper, but are less good at promoting their low cost.
There are other fees you'll pay the court/municipality that are the same regardless of the school.
Most of the online "schools" are effectively just having you read through the California Driver Handbook and taking a test (or several shorter quizzes).
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
Re: Traffic violation in CA
I would only go to court if did not actually break the rules.
Otherwise pay the fine and take the traffic school ($10 or so) to avoid the points and save everybody time.
Otherwise pay the fine and take the traffic school ($10 or so) to avoid the points and save everybody time.
-
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:39 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Many, if not most, cities in Ca have discontinued their red light cameras. But based on what others tell me, it's pretty hard to beat a rolling stop at a red light camera when making a right turn. But who knows? Based on your particular situation you might get lucky. But if the camera shows the vehicle did not come to a complete stop - my guess it's hard to beat.
For a very nominal charge you can take a written test on-line offered by many different companies that contract with the state. As long as you haven't had a moving violation I believe in the prior 18 months (not positive on the time frame) and pass the test the violation is not reported to the insurance companies. So you pay the fine and pay for the on-line traffic test - and presto - you're done.
Most people I know do the traffic school.
For a very nominal charge you can take a written test on-line offered by many different companies that contract with the state. As long as you haven't had a moving violation I believe in the prior 18 months (not positive on the time frame) and pass the test the violation is not reported to the insurance companies. So you pay the fine and pay for the on-line traffic test - and presto - you're done.
Most people I know do the traffic school.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
You have more or less admitted guilt. Going to court is highly unlikely to produce a favorable result given the fact that officers are incentivized to show up to court.
-
- Posts: 672
- Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:12 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
At VA, its 50 bucks for red light violation and never shown in insurance report. video showed Rolling right at red instead of full stop.
However driver felt stopped for second. Never argued or went to court to challenge as no impact in insurance premium
Red light camera contracted to third party who send fine amount/ video.
Iam unsure if CA is so different !!!
However driver felt stopped for second. Never argued or went to court to challenge as no impact in insurance premium
Red light camera contracted to third party who send fine amount/ video.
Iam unsure if CA is so different !!!
Allocation : 80/20 (90% TSM, 10% on ARKK,XBI,XLK/individual stocks and 20% TBM) |
|
Need to learn fishing sooner
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Wow, mine was only $75 in Texas and no points or traffic school (Texas has outlawed since). I was accelerating after a car turned into a driveway before the intersection and I would have had to make a very unsafe stop or run the “orange” light. If you want to fight it use this similar defense. I had a relative who got two citations on the same day hours apart. If they would have been notified immediately (they were not aware of the speed trap) and would not have done the second one but they weren’t notified until weeks later.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Go to your arraignment at the courthouse. The judge may offer you and everyone else who shows up a 50% discount on your ticket if you plead no contest on the spot and pay the reduced fine. You can request traffic school as well if eligible.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
The deleted Fatwallet Finance had several lively discussions on fighting or getting traffic tickets dismissed on procedural grounds in California. Note that you can do a trial by written declaration. This law firm gives a good summary of it. https://www.rpmlawca.com/blog/2020/janu ... -declarat/
There are also websites that let you get access to templates to write your written declaration. They indicate that about 30% of those who do a written declaration get the trial dismissed as the prosecution does not follow up in time with their declaration.
Also, as noted by the law firm above, you can still have a regular de novo (all new) trial and/or request traffic school after the written declaration trial. I remember in Fatwallet Finance there was gamesmanship about requesting adjournments and night court hearings and other things to maximize a chance for dismissal with a normal trial.
Note that the written declaration trial must be requested before the initial response deadline. Also note that the law firm mentioned the possibility of doing community service instead of having to pay the fine. If you want that route, you cannot do the trial by written declaration at all, and should explore that possibility before deciding what to do.
There are also websites that let you get access to templates to write your written declaration. They indicate that about 30% of those who do a written declaration get the trial dismissed as the prosecution does not follow up in time with their declaration.
Also, as noted by the law firm above, you can still have a regular de novo (all new) trial and/or request traffic school after the written declaration trial. I remember in Fatwallet Finance there was gamesmanship about requesting adjournments and night court hearings and other things to maximize a chance for dismissal with a normal trial.
Note that the written declaration trial must be requested before the initial response deadline. Also note that the law firm mentioned the possibility of doing community service instead of having to pay the fine. If you want that route, you cannot do the trial by written declaration at all, and should explore that possibility before deciding what to do.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
How were you "noticed" of the violation? Google what happens when you ignore a red light camera ticket in your jurisdiction. In my area of So. Ca. ignored citations were not prosecuted and no penalty was assessed. Once word got out most agencies got rid of the cameras. They were a money grab and didn't improve traffic safety, I was glad to see them go.
For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his gods. |
Pensions= 2X yearly expenses. Portfolio= 40X yearly expenses.
-
- Posts: 2136
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:17 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Where are they using speed cameras in arizona?runner3081 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:37 pm Online traffic school, just did one for an AZ speed camera ticket (52 in a 40). Did the class in about 2 hours and the ticket was dismissed.
I used "Low Cost Easy Quick Defensive Driving Academy"
Most of these places work in multiple states.
-
- Posts: 2136
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:17 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
I’ve also heard this, but I wouldn’t tell the OP to ignore the ticket, but do his own research into the best course of action.sergeant wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:31 am How were you "noticed" of the violation? Google what happens when you ignore a red light camera ticket in your jurisdiction. In my area of So. Ca. ignored citations were not prosecuted and no penalty was assessed. Once word got out most agencies got rid of the cameras. They were a money grab and didn't improve traffic safety, I was glad to see them go.
-
- Posts: 2136
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:17 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
This is perfect example of the point Dale Carnegie made, nobody is guilty in their own mind.gurusw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:03 pm Hi,
I recently got a minor traffic violation. I did not stop at red light while making right turn. I was supposed to stop like for a stop sign, and then turn right. This is captured on camera - both photo & video.
I read on Internet that this involves $500 fine and 1 point on driving record. It can increase my premium by 20% for the next 3 years.
I am given 2 options:
1. Pay the bail amount, and the point goes on the driving record.
It says I may be able to avoid point by requesting traffic school. The school avoids the point & increase in insurance. But I pay the bail & also some additional fees.
2. Court trial.
Is there anyone who has experience with this? Any guidance what to do?
My defense is that I was going at 11mph at 30mph zone (as they have documented). The camera shows that I am looking in the direction of the incoming traffic as I am turning right. And finally as I was taking right turn on a street A from street B; the cars from street A were taking left turn on street B; thus covering my car from any incoming traffic.
Your help is appreciated.
OP, there is nothing in the California driver handbook about being allowed to turn right on red without stopping if you are “looking left” Or if the other direction was turning left. Or if you “only” go 11mph. I’ve seen better defenses fail.
There are some interesting things on the web about whether those cameras are constitutional. They were pretty much removed in LA, San Diego and other cities. I don’t know if you want to do research on this and try to fight it from that stand point. I wouldn’t, I’d just do traffic school so it doesn’t increase your car insurance.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
I've been caught a couple of rolling right turns - on camera, plus other camera offenses. My typical process:
1. Become angered at the injustice and the waste of time this has caused
2. Jump on Google, do research, read articles about how camera companies require municipality to pursue rolling rights, in order to make the camera thing profitable.
3 become more outraged
4. Investigate if this is just a civil charge. What happens if i dont pay? Does it go to collections?
5 Do I want to go to court and spend time pursuing this? Will the judge share my outrage?
6 Google and research some more.
7. Eventually give up and decide it's a fools errand and pay the damn fine.
To save time, you may wish to skip straight to step 7.
1. Become angered at the injustice and the waste of time this has caused
2. Jump on Google, do research, read articles about how camera companies require municipality to pursue rolling rights, in order to make the camera thing profitable.
3 become more outraged
4. Investigate if this is just a civil charge. What happens if i dont pay? Does it go to collections?
5 Do I want to go to court and spend time pursuing this? Will the judge share my outrage?
6 Google and research some more.
7. Eventually give up and decide it's a fools errand and pay the damn fine.
To save time, you may wish to skip straight to step 7.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
I wouldn't listen to these amateur Perry Masons* who recommend fighting it in court. You don't have a viable defense; just take on-line traffic school, pay the dang fine and be done with it.
On-line traffic schools let you start and stop as you please. Forget about live traffic school — it's a waste of a day. And don't be taken in by these "comedy" traffic schools run by local comedy clubs. There's nothing comedic about them and they're likewise a waste of a day.
More than once I've been driving at night and legally crossed an intersection only to see the bright flash of a strobe light. "Oh no, busted!" I thought. I went home and waited for a ticket to arrive. No ticket ever arrived. Here in L.A. I understand they have an officer or deputy review the photos to see if a violation was indeed committed. "But ossifer, I KNOW I went through that intersection legally."
They also have a guy who goes out in a little pickup truck at like 3 am to change the film in the camera. He makes the strobe flash to make sure it's working.
*I was once at a party with Perry Mason, or more accurately Raymond Burr, in 1979. I didn't talk to him, but if you live in Hollywood you get to drop celebrity names once in a while.
On-line traffic schools let you start and stop as you please. Forget about live traffic school — it's a waste of a day. And don't be taken in by these "comedy" traffic schools run by local comedy clubs. There's nothing comedic about them and they're likewise a waste of a day.
More than once I've been driving at night and legally crossed an intersection only to see the bright flash of a strobe light. "Oh no, busted!" I thought. I went home and waited for a ticket to arrive. No ticket ever arrived. Here in L.A. I understand they have an officer or deputy review the photos to see if a violation was indeed committed. "But ossifer, I KNOW I went through that intersection legally."
They also have a guy who goes out in a little pickup truck at like 3 am to change the film in the camera. He makes the strobe flash to make sure it's working.
*I was once at a party with Perry Mason, or more accurately Raymond Burr, in 1979. I didn't talk to him, but if you live in Hollywood you get to drop celebrity names once in a while.
Financial decisions based on emotion often turn out to be bad decisions.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
This is good.JBTX wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:54 am I've been caught a couple of rolling right turns - on camera, plus other camera offenses. My typical process:
1. Become angered at the injustice and the waste of time this has caused
2. Jump on Google, do research, read articles about how camera companies require municipality to pursue rolling rights, in order to make the camera thing profitable.
3 become more outraged
4. Investigate if this is just a civil charge. What happens if i dont pay? Does it go to collections?
5 Do I want to go to court and spend time pursuing this? Will the judge share my outrage?
6 Google and research some more.
7. Eventually give up and decide it's a fools errand and pay the damn fine.
To save time, you may wish to skip straight to step 7.
Kind of like the "five stages of grief" (plus two).
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
Re: Traffic violation in CA
This must be an out west Cali thing, while travelling to Cali in Frisco, I did get pulled over not fully stopping a stop sign at an intersection with no cars, maybe going a measly 5mph. I tried to explain, I've been doing this for 45 years in front of police and never been pulled over, it's not an issue, there is no chance of an accident, I'm helping out here by minimizing my time on the road, I'm saving the environment, don't you have something better to do than harass innocent people. It didn't really help. I payed it.
Last edited by Kagord on Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
AKA the "California Roll"Big Dog wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:24 pm What you describe used to be called a Hollywood Stop. A rolling 'stop' is a big no-no. Doesn't matter which way you were looking.
Traffic school is like a get-out-of-jail-card. (except you have to pay for the school.) But no points on your record, which is well worth the cost of traffic school.
-
- Posts: 18502
- Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
- Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Really?Kagord wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:20 am This must be an out west Cali thing, while travelling to Cali in Frisco, I did get pulled over not fully stopping a stop sign at an intersection with no cars, maybe going a measly 5mph. I tried to explain, I've been doing this for 45 years in front of police and never been pulled over, it's not an issue, there is no chance of an accident, I'm helping out here by minimizing my time on the road, I'm saving the environment, don't you have something better to do than harass innocent people. It didn't really help. I payed it.
The only additional thing I can think of to force the officer to write you a ticket would be to say "you know my taxes pay your salary".
Sounds like they really powder puff the fines in California. Although I haven't had a ticket in decades, both my kids have. One was able to do online traffic school for his first speeding ticket in Mass. The other hired a lawyer in Rhode Island for $350 and the ticket was dismissed as his driving record for the past year was clear.
And just as an answer to the "where are there traffic cameras in Arizona?"....that's pretty easy. They are littered all around metro Phoenix. I was in Chandler for training and driving. My colleagues were pointing out the cameras all over. In the 5 mile drive, we found at least 8.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
- SmileyFace
- Posts: 9186
- Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:11 am
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Why do you call it bail? I assume it a fine.
You did the crime so pay the fine. You have no defense. Only you can decide if the traffic school time option is worth the savings (maybe you need the traffic school since you seem to think its okay to blow thru a red light provided you have assessed it safe to do so - sorry - couldn't resist. I almost got hit by someone that did that not too long ago).
You did the crime so pay the fine. You have no defense. Only you can decide if the traffic school time option is worth the savings (maybe you need the traffic school since you seem to think its okay to blow thru a red light provided you have assessed it safe to do so - sorry - couldn't resist. I almost got hit by someone that did that not too long ago).
Re: Traffic violation in CA
I don't see responses saying somebody could win in court with a video showing them rolling through a stop sign at 11mph, might have missed it. Anyway I agree the odds would be basically zero. They are trying to make money (camera enforcement is generally shown not to enhance safety, shown deleterious to safety in case of red light cameras), and have no reason to give up that money having gained the evidence to ensnare you in their money making scheme. So I agree at the bottom line, pay.chris319 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:01 am I wouldn't listen to these amateur Perry Masons* who recommend fighting it in court. You don't have a viable defense; just take on-line traffic school, pay the dang fine and be done with it.
On-line traffic schools let you start and stop as you please. Forget about live traffic school — it's a waste of a day. And don't be taken in by these "comedy" traffic schools run by local comedy clubs. There's nothing comedic about them and they're likewise a waste of a day.
The possibility of simply ignoring the ticket was raised, that they could not actually take any further action to collect. But where I live I'm pretty sure that would just generate more trouble.
On traffic school, I did an online 'comedy' one in NJ, to lower insurance premium not because of a ticket. It was insipid comedy, but had the key virtue of online: you don't really have to pay attention continuously, can do something else most of the time. It's a pretty small diversion of attention, even if you have to wait it out reading a magazine article or something before the timer on the course will allow you to click the obvious answer. I agree on a live thing you're subject to it being a complete waste of a significant amount of your time. But the only all day 'traffic school' thing I did was a one day BMW course in SC. That did spend a good deal of time on safety (emergency evasion, spin and spin avoidance on wet skid pad, etc.) besides some racing stuff. It was the polar opposite of a waste of time, super fun. I think it qualifies as 'defensive driving course' with some insurers, though I didn't try it with mine.
-
- Posts: 5994
- Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 3:22 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Most cities are.manatee2005 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:40 amWhere are they using speed cameras in arizona?runner3081 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:37 pm Online traffic school, just did one for an AZ speed camera ticket (52 in a 40). Did the class in about 2 hours and the ticket was dismissed.
I used "Low Cost Easy Quick Defensive Driving Academy"
Most of these places work in multiple states.
Scottsdale also has two on Shea, near the 101, FLW and Hayden, one at FLW and Cactus along with one at Scottsdale and Pinnacle Peak. (looks like 12 total, based on this). All of the intersection/red light cameras also do speed in Scottsdale.
https://www.scottsdaleaz.gov/Assets/Sco ... ations.pdf
Phoenix has speed lights but they are not activated at the moment.
Paradise Valley has speed cams for sure, as well.
I am sure Gilbert/Chandler and others do, but I am not 100% sure as I don't ever get down south.
-
- Posts: 656
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2014 4:34 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
For the first violation, I would pay the fine and take online traffic school. If it is a second, then talk to a attorney. The best way to find one is to yelp for one in the court's area. I always go to court and have a 100% success rate in California when I use an attorney - that said, never caught on a red light camera. But, I am convinced lawyers have tricks up their sleeves for everything based on my ow experience. The going rate is $150/$180 per ticket for an attorney in the bay area.
-
- Posts: 104
- Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 10:16 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
California law offers three affirmative defenses that would afford you complete relief in this case:
1. Traveling in response to an emergency. Was there somewhere you had to be urgently? If so, tell the judge and, if accepted, you would defeat the charge.
2. Avoiding a sudden and dangerous event. Was there a car behind you not braking or some reason why you needed to get out of the way? If so, tell the judge and, if accepted, you would defeat the charge.
3. Doing an involuntary act. Were you sneezing as you drove and thus unable to act? Any violation of traffic law must be volitional in a criminal matter. If so, tell the judge and, if accepted, you would defeat the charge.
If you have no such defense, you may challenge the red-light camera on evidentiary grounds. What CA court are you in? Does it follow the California rules of evidence?
If it does, figure out if the prosecutor has a copy rather than the original footage. You can ask the judge to exclude it from consideration as it is a copy rather than an original and therefore violates CA's "best evidence rule."
Otherwise, challenge it on the grounds that a custodian of CA is not there to testify as to whether the red-light footage was made in the regular course of the company's business, at or near the time of your purported violation, its mode of preparation, and whether it used trustworthy sources. If the CA rules of evidence apply in your court, they have to prove each of those items and you are entitled to challenge them and if they fail on just one the evidence is excluded.
If the CA rules of evidence do not apply, the above evidentiary challenges would not work.
Remember, the prosecutor keeps all options on the table until the judge makes a determination. You will know in short order whether the judge will find you guilty or not even before the ruling. If you appear in court, and the judge appears unreceptive to your challenges, remember you can request the traffic school alternative right up until the judge makes a determination. This allows you to check out the lay of the land before deciding.
The typical prosecutor has several hundred items on a docket per day. If it is a municipal prosecutor, it is a job that tends to go to the "bottom-quadrant attorneys" (not a technically accurate term but nevertheless illustrative) and it may build confidence to know you are not challenging someone who is likely to overwhelm with competence. They don't want protracted battles on a particular, minor charge despite some Bogleheads here acting like you're OJ on the freeway.
1. Traveling in response to an emergency. Was there somewhere you had to be urgently? If so, tell the judge and, if accepted, you would defeat the charge.
2. Avoiding a sudden and dangerous event. Was there a car behind you not braking or some reason why you needed to get out of the way? If so, tell the judge and, if accepted, you would defeat the charge.
3. Doing an involuntary act. Were you sneezing as you drove and thus unable to act? Any violation of traffic law must be volitional in a criminal matter. If so, tell the judge and, if accepted, you would defeat the charge.
If you have no such defense, you may challenge the red-light camera on evidentiary grounds. What CA court are you in? Does it follow the California rules of evidence?
If it does, figure out if the prosecutor has a copy rather than the original footage. You can ask the judge to exclude it from consideration as it is a copy rather than an original and therefore violates CA's "best evidence rule."
Otherwise, challenge it on the grounds that a custodian of CA is not there to testify as to whether the red-light footage was made in the regular course of the company's business, at or near the time of your purported violation, its mode of preparation, and whether it used trustworthy sources. If the CA rules of evidence apply in your court, they have to prove each of those items and you are entitled to challenge them and if they fail on just one the evidence is excluded.
If the CA rules of evidence do not apply, the above evidentiary challenges would not work.
Remember, the prosecutor keeps all options on the table until the judge makes a determination. You will know in short order whether the judge will find you guilty or not even before the ruling. If you appear in court, and the judge appears unreceptive to your challenges, remember you can request the traffic school alternative right up until the judge makes a determination. This allows you to check out the lay of the land before deciding.
The typical prosecutor has several hundred items on a docket per day. If it is a municipal prosecutor, it is a job that tends to go to the "bottom-quadrant attorneys" (not a technically accurate term but nevertheless illustrative) and it may build confidence to know you are not challenging someone who is likely to overwhelm with competence. They don't want protracted battles on a particular, minor charge despite some Bogleheads here acting like you're OJ on the freeway.
Last edited by JustGotScammed on Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 1516
- Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:52 am
Re: Traffic violation in CA
I haven't had a moving violation since IIRC 04. That one as well as the multitude of others were dealt with by traffic school and paying the fine. There are attorneys out there who will take your money if you want to go to court. I suggest you keep this thread going if you go down that path.gurusw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:03 pm Hi,
I recently got a minor traffic violation. I did not stop at red light while making right turn. I was supposed to stop like for a stop sign, and then turn right. This is captured on camera - both photo & video.
I read on Internet that this involves $500 fine and 1 point on driving record. It can increase my premium by 20% for the next 3 years.
I am given 2 options:
1. Pay the bail amount, and the point goes on the driving record.
It says I may be able to avoid point by requesting traffic school. The school avoids the point & increase in insurance. But I pay the bail & also some additional fees.
2. Court trial.
Is there anyone who has experience with this? Any guidance what to do?
My defense is that I was going at 11mph at 30mph zone (as they have documented). The camera shows that I am looking in the direction of the incoming traffic as I am turning right. And finally as I was taking right turn on a street A from street B; the cars from street A were taking left turn on street B; thus covering my car from any incoming traffic.
Your help is appreciated.
- Sandtrap
- Posts: 19591
- Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:32 pm
- Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi - white sandy beaches, N. Arizona 1 mile high.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Good to know.runner3081 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:37 pm Online traffic school, just did one for an AZ speed camera ticket (52 in a 40). Did the class in about 2 hours and the ticket was dismissed.
I used "Low Cost Easy Quick Defensive Driving Academy"
Most of these places work in multiple states.
Thanks
j
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Based on what you wrote. You have no defense short of a medical emergency. It's great you are looking at oncoming traffic on your left but there could have be a pedestrian crossing on your right while you are focusing on your left (assuming it was a crosswalk). Right turn on red requires a stop.gurusw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:03 pm Hi,
I recently got a minor traffic violation. I did not stop at red light while making right turn. I was supposed to stop like for a stop sign, and then turn right. This is captured on camera - both photo & video.
I read on Internet that this involves $500 fine and 1 point on driving record. It can increase my premium by 20% for the next 3 years.
I am given 2 options:
1. Pay the bail amount, and the point goes on the driving record.
It says I may be able to avoid point by requesting traffic school. The school avoids the point & increase in insurance. But I pay the bail & also some additional fees.
2. Court trial.
Is there anyone who has experience with this? Any guidance what to do?
My defense is that I was going at 11mph at 30mph zone (as they have documented). The camera shows that I am looking in the direction of the incoming traffic as I am turning right. And finally as I was taking right turn on a street A from street B; the cars from street A were taking left turn on street B; thus covering my car from any incoming traffic.
Your help is appreciated.
If this is your only violation in several years, insurance may not go up. YMMV.
Last edited by seawolf21 on Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Been a while since I've had any tickets but in my younger days I had a few. This was back east and not CA so I don't know how similar things are.
Generally the rule was if you had a clean record for the last (I think) 3 years, you go to court, plead guilty, pay a fine and the judge would give you probation before judgement. This involved no points and it would fall off your record unless you got another ticket.
I think traffic school is maybe replacing the above, and usually you are only eligible for that if its been 3 years since your last ticket (probably varies by state). It often is online and takes about 4 hours and I think includes a test (I've never done it).
One of the few advantages of getting "old" is that I had never received a warning from an officer in my life until I got into my 50s.
Personally I would never accept points on my record w/o going to court, or go the traffic school route if it avoids points. Judges are usually pretty easy on you if your record is good.
OTOH, if you have issues, don't go to court w/o an attorney. Literally I've seen people go in and get arrested due to outstanding warrants or doing some crazy stuff.
And my funniest story was this person who went to court and the state had no witnesses (the officer didn't show up) and this was pre-camera stuff. The judge asked the person how they wanted to plead and the person said "Guilty with explanation". The judge looked at the person and said a second (and maybe a 3rd time) "How do you want to plead?". Finally the person looked around and said in a tentative voice "Not guilty?" and the judge dismissed the case.
Generally the rule was if you had a clean record for the last (I think) 3 years, you go to court, plead guilty, pay a fine and the judge would give you probation before judgement. This involved no points and it would fall off your record unless you got another ticket.
I think traffic school is maybe replacing the above, and usually you are only eligible for that if its been 3 years since your last ticket (probably varies by state). It often is online and takes about 4 hours and I think includes a test (I've never done it).
One of the few advantages of getting "old" is that I had never received a warning from an officer in my life until I got into my 50s.
Personally I would never accept points on my record w/o going to court, or go the traffic school route if it avoids points. Judges are usually pretty easy on you if your record is good.
OTOH, if you have issues, don't go to court w/o an attorney. Literally I've seen people go in and get arrested due to outstanding warrants or doing some crazy stuff.
And my funniest story was this person who went to court and the state had no witnesses (the officer didn't show up) and this was pre-camera stuff. The judge asked the person how they wanted to plead and the person said "Guilty with explanation". The judge looked at the person and said a second (and maybe a 3rd time) "How do you want to plead?". Finally the person looked around and said in a tentative voice "Not guilty?" and the judge dismissed the case.
----------------------------- |
If you think something is important and it doesn't involve the health of someone, think again. Life goes too fast, enjoy it and be nice.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
I was caught under exactly the same circumstances. In CA, the photo must definitively show the identity of the driver. My daughter was sent a photo citation for the same offense at the same light, but the people who reviewed the photo couldn't match her red light photo to her driver's license photo. She was asked to provide the contact information for the person driving, but chose not to supply that information and nothing happened as a consequence. So I guess a preventative strategy could be to make sure you wear some sort of disguise while driving.
Unfortunately, the hefty fees tacked on to red light camera citations ultimately made them extremely unpopular and they have been removed in many cities, including mine. The consequence was an increase in deadly collisions at intersections, as running red lights has become a sport.
The online traffic schools are the easiest, if you have some computer savvy you will be able to get through the course very quickly. It doesn't help at all to study before the traffic school quiz. The questions often have no relevance to traffic law, they only test whether you have read the text and include such questions as "What color was Fred's shirt when he stopped at the stop sign?".
Unfortunately, the hefty fees tacked on to red light camera citations ultimately made them extremely unpopular and they have been removed in many cities, including mine. The consequence was an increase in deadly collisions at intersections, as running red lights has become a sport.
The online traffic schools are the easiest, if you have some computer savvy you will be able to get through the course very quickly. It doesn't help at all to study before the traffic school quiz. The questions often have no relevance to traffic law, they only test whether you have read the text and include such questions as "What color was Fred's shirt when he stopped at the stop sign?".
Re: Traffic violation in CA
I would go to traffic school to avoid the penalties on your next insurance. And on top of that, if you don’t, and you get a second ticket, you are not allowed to go to traffic school for that one. Then you have two points on your record, and your insurance will be even higher. (Ask me how I know.). I wouldn’t take the chance.
-
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:27 am
Re: Traffic violation in CA
This.sergeant wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:31 am How were you "noticed" of the violation? Google what happens when you ignore a red light camera ticket in your jurisdiction. In my area of So. Ca. ignored citations were not prosecuted and no penalty was assessed. Once word got out most agencies got rid of the cameras. They were a money grab and didn't improve traffic safety, I was glad to see them go.
https://www.laweekly.com/yes-you-can-st ... ra-ticket/
Ignore the ticket. Do NOT go online to review the ticket! If you do, that changes things, since it means you 'acknowledged' the ticket.
In 2017 I got a red light ticket in Beverly Hills as I tried to make it through a yellow light. I saw the camera flash, and a couple weeks later received the ticket in the mail. I did a lot of research, and the consensus is that you can ignore the ticket. It's 4 years later, and no issues. These tickets do not get reported to the DMV. You may also get a letter that the ticket has been sent to collections. Ignore all threatening letters. It does not ding your credit. They are trying to scare you into paying.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
I thought this only applies to LA county.Ilikesparklers wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:13 pm
This.
https://www.laweekly.com/yes-you-can-st ... ra-ticket/
Ignore the ticket. Do NOT go online to review the ticket! If you do, that changes things, since it means you 'acknowledged' the ticket.
In 2017 I got a red light ticket in Beverly Hills as I tried to make it through a yellow light. I saw the camera flash, and a couple weeks later received the ticket in the mail. I did a lot of research, and the consensus is that you can ignore the ticket. It's 4 years later, and no issues. These tickets do not get reported to the DMV. You may also get a letter that the ticket has been sent to collections. Ignore all threatening letters. It does not ding your credit. They are trying to scare you into paying.
-
- Posts: 2136
- Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:17 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
I didn’t get a ticket but I remember being paranoid about them and reading up. This matches what I remember reading about them. Something about the ticket not being constitutional because you can’t face your accuser?Ilikesparklers wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:13 pmThis.sergeant wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:31 am How were you "noticed" of the violation? Google what happens when you ignore a red light camera ticket in your jurisdiction. In my area of So. Ca. ignored citations were not prosecuted and no penalty was assessed. Once word got out most agencies got rid of the cameras. They were a money grab and didn't improve traffic safety, I was glad to see them go.
https://www.laweekly.com/yes-you-can-st ... ra-ticket/
Ignore the ticket. Do NOT go online to review the ticket! If you do, that changes things, since it means you 'acknowledged' the ticket.
In 2017 I got a red light ticket in Beverly Hills as I tried to make it through a yellow light. I saw the camera flash, and a couple weeks later received the ticket in the mail. I did a lot of research, and the consensus is that you can ignore the ticket. It's 4 years later, and no issues. These tickets do not get reported to the DMV. You may also get a letter that the ticket has been sent to collections. Ignore all threatening letters. It does not ding your credit. They are trying to scare you into paying.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
I live in Washington State and in this area there are several red light cameras and school zone cameras. In Washington state this is mostly a annoying since they don't go on your record they are considered minor similar to a parking ticket. If you don't pay or resolve you may have problems trying to register your vehicle. Months ago after I had received my covid vaccination I pulled out on a side street at 10:00 in the morning not knowing that the street was in a active school speed zone. The school zone has flashing lights on both sides of the street but they do not have flashing lights when you pull in or out of the shopping center. The school had unusual hours where the lights were flashing due to the hybrid school sessions. I felt like the rules were unfair but I did violate them and decided to pay the $250 fine. The city collects a lot of revenue from red light traffic cameras and school zone traffic cameras.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
#1, and try to do online traffic school to avoid the point & ins increase.gurusw wrote: ↑Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:03 pm Hi,
I recently got a minor traffic violation. I did not stop at red light while making right turn. I was supposed to stop like for a stop sign, and then turn right. This is captured on camera - both photo & video.
I read on Internet that this involves $500 fine and 1 point on driving record. It can increase my premium by 20% for the next 3 years.
I am given 2 options:
1. Pay the bail amount, and the point goes on the driving record.
It says I may be able to avoid point by requesting traffic school. The school avoids the point & increase in insurance. But I pay the bail & also some additional fees.
2. Court trial.
Is there anyone who has experience with this? Any guidance what to do?
My defense is that I was going at 11mph at 30mph zone (as they have documented). The camera shows that I am looking in the direction of the incoming traffic as I am turning right. And finally as I was taking right turn on a street A from street B; the cars from street A were taking left turn on street B; thus covering my car from any incoming traffic.
Your help is appreciated.
This post is for entertainment or information only, and should not be construed as professional financial advice. |
|
"Invest your money passively and your time actively" -Michael LeBoeuf
-
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:27 am
Re: Traffic violation in CA
jmw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:30 pmI thought this only applies to LA county.Ilikesparklers wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:13 pm
This.
https://www.laweekly.com/yes-you-can-st ... ra-ticket/
Ignore the ticket. Do NOT go online to review the ticket! If you do, that changes things, since it means you 'acknowledged' the ticket.
In 2017 I got a red light ticket in Beverly Hills as I tried to make it through a yellow light. I saw the camera flash, and a couple weeks later received the ticket in the mail. I did a lot of research, and the consensus is that you can ignore the ticket. It's 4 years later, and no issues. These tickets do not get reported to the DMV. You may also get a letter that the ticket has been sent to collections. Ignore all threatening letters. It does not ding your credit. They are trying to scare you into paying.
Good point. When I read CA in the post, I thought LA. My research and ticket applied to LA county. Not sure where the OP's ticket originated.
-
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:55 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
What I write you should look up to confirm -
A few years ago I read in two sources that red light cameras were not enforceable. If you were stopped by a police office and they can confirm your identity you are on the hook. In that case pay the fine and do traffic school to remove your points. It's easy. You need to look up what I'm writing - red light camera citations are handed off from the government to private companies and are not enforceable. The articles I read said you can throw them away. They are not enforced by the police.
A few years ago I read in two sources that red light cameras were not enforceable. If you were stopped by a police office and they can confirm your identity you are on the hook. In that case pay the fine and do traffic school to remove your points. It's easy. You need to look up what I'm writing - red light camera citations are handed off from the government to private companies and are not enforceable. The articles I read said you can throw them away. They are not enforced by the police.
-
- Posts: 263
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:55 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
My understanding is installing red light cameras, when studied, does not decrease the number of traffic accidents. Some jurisdictions shortened the time of the yellow light to increase the number of violators and traffic accidents actually increased.neowiser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:29 am I was caught under exactly the same circumstances. In CA, the photo must definitively show the identity of the driver. My daughter was sent a photo citation for the same offense at the same light, but the people who reviewed the photo couldn't match her red light photo to her driver's license photo. She was asked to provide the contact information for the person driving, but chose not to supply that information and nothing happened as a consequence. So I guess a preventative strategy could be to make sure you wear some sort of disguise while driving.
Unfortunately, the hefty fees tacked on to red light camera citations ultimately made them extremely unpopular and they have been removed in many cities, including mine. The consequence was an increase in deadly collisions at intersections, as running red lights has become a sport.
The online traffic schools are the easiest, if you have some computer savvy you will be able to get through the course very quickly. It doesn't help at all to study before the traffic school quiz. The questions often have no relevance to traffic law, they only test whether you have read the text and include such questions as "What color was Fred's shirt when he stopped at the stop sign?".
- quantAndHold
- Posts: 10141
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm
- Location: West Coast
Re: Traffic violation in CA
The main difference between a red light camera ticket and a ticket from a cop is that the person that gets the red light ticket is always sure they were horribly, horribly wronged, and that there’s got to be some way they can get out of the ticket.
You turned right on a red light without stopping and got caught. Assuming the picture of your face and your license plate was clear, the only real defense for a ticket like that is if you can prove that the red light camera was malfunctioning, which will require either an attorney or a lot of research on your part, and if it wasn’t malfunctioning, then you still lose. Pay the fine, go to traffic school, and don’t do it again for 18 months. Insurance companies know that in California, everyone goes to traffic school for their first ticket, so if a ticket shows up on your driving record, it probably isn’t your first ticket, so your insurance will indeed go up.
You turned right on a red light without stopping and got caught. Assuming the picture of your face and your license plate was clear, the only real defense for a ticket like that is if you can prove that the red light camera was malfunctioning, which will require either an attorney or a lot of research on your part, and if it wasn’t malfunctioning, then you still lose. Pay the fine, go to traffic school, and don’t do it again for 18 months. Insurance companies know that in California, everyone goes to traffic school for their first ticket, so if a ticket shows up on your driving record, it probably isn’t your first ticket, so your insurance will indeed go up.
-
- Posts: 6561
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:35 pm
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Pay the ticket, and maybe take traffic school.
I paid a ticket I got from just outside Paris (France not Texas).
I did not think I was speeding, but wasn't going to France to fight
a 35 euro ticket. Besides, I was just trying not to get run over by
everyone else in an ever shifting 110 to 130 to 110 (kph) environment.
I paid a ticket I got from just outside Paris (France not Texas).
I did not think I was speeding, but wasn't going to France to fight
a 35 euro ticket. Besides, I was just trying not to get run over by
everyone else in an ever shifting 110 to 130 to 110 (kph) environment.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
In my city in Washington state they are totally legal. While they don't prosecute non-payment on these tickets, drivers who choose not to pay take a riskShalom Aleichem wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:06 pm What I write you should look up to confirm -
A few years ago I read in two sources that red light cameras were not enforceable. If you were stopped by a police office and they can confirm your identity you are on the hook. In that case pay the fine and do traffic school to remove your points. It's easy. You need to look up what I'm writing - red light camera citations are handed off from the government to private companies and are not enforceable. The articles I read said you can throw them away. They are not enforced by the police.
the DMV will be informed for unpaid tickets and will place a "hold" on your registration renewal. Other fines may be assessed for late payment and you vehicle could be booted.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Red light cameras save lives by reducing side impact crashes. Some data show an increase in rear end collisions but these are less associated with serious injury. Lots of data linked on this site:Shalom Aleichem wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:08 pmMy understanding is installing red light cameras, when studied, does not decrease the number of traffic accidents. Some jurisdictions shortened the time of the yellow light to increase the number of violators and traffic accidents actually increased.neowiser wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 11:29 am I was caught under exactly the same circumstances. In CA, the photo must definitively show the identity of the driver. My daughter was sent a photo citation for the same offense at the same light, but the people who reviewed the photo couldn't match her red light photo to her driver's license photo. She was asked to provide the contact information for the person driving, but chose not to supply that information and nothing happened as a consequence. So I guess a preventative strategy could be to make sure you wear some sort of disguise while driving.
Unfortunately, the hefty fees tacked on to red light camera citations ultimately made them extremely unpopular and they have been removed in many cities, including mine. The consequence was an increase in deadly collisions at intersections, as running red lights has become a sport.
The online traffic schools are the easiest, if you have some computer savvy you will be able to get through the course very quickly. It doesn't help at all to study before the traffic school quiz. The questions often have no relevance to traffic law, they only test whether you have read the text and include such questions as "What color was Fred's shirt when he stopped at the stop sign?".
https://www.iihs.org/topics/red-light-running
Also this tidbit on the website “ In a few states (Arizona, California, Oregon) red light camera citations are treated the same as citations issued by police officers doing traffic enforcement.”
- quantAndHold
- Posts: 10141
- Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:39 pm
- Location: West Coast
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Yeah, that’s what my quick Google said about California. They won’t revoke your license for nonpayment, but it’s still a real ticket, and you’ll still have a point on your license, which will affect your insurance rates.2pedals wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:52 pmIn my city in Washington state they are totally legal. While they don't prosecute non-payment on these tickets, drivers who choose not to pay take a riskShalom Aleichem wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:06 pm What I write you should look up to confirm -
A few years ago I read in two sources that red light cameras were not enforceable. If you were stopped by a police office and they can confirm your identity you are on the hook. In that case pay the fine and do traffic school to remove your points. It's easy. You need to look up what I'm writing - red light camera citations are handed off from the government to private companies and are not enforceable. The articles I read said you can throw them away. They are not enforced by the police.
the DMV will be informed for unpaid tickets and will place a "hold" on your registration renewal. Other fines may be assessed for late payment and you vehicle could be booted.
Back in the day, you could go to traffic school to get out of paying the fines, so it was a no brainer. Sadly, now you have to pay the fines in order to go to traffic school to get the ticket dismissed.
Re: Traffic violation in CA
Thanks for the replies.
This is in bay area, not LA. Also the letter mentions that ignoring this ticket can result in non-renewal of license and/or increased penalty.
More instructions will come via mail within 10 days ad specify bail amount (They keep calling it bail as opposed to fine), and whether I qualify for traffic school. Given I do not have any tickets in my life, I should qualify for traffic school.
This is in bay area, not LA. Also the letter mentions that ignoring this ticket can result in non-renewal of license and/or increased penalty.
More instructions will come via mail within 10 days ad specify bail amount (They keep calling it bail as opposed to fine), and whether I qualify for traffic school. Given I do not have any tickets in my life, I should qualify for traffic school.