Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

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Topic Author
2Scoops
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Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by 2Scoops »

Hi All,

I’ve hit a breaking point at work. It’s been coming for a long time as Ive sacrificed my family and health for the sake of my job. That sacrifice hasn’t paid off. It’s your normal list of negative work qualities - stagnant pay, high stress levels, resource shortages, increasing time demands, no leadership support, no control of my schedule or priorities,etc. I’m not disgruntled at all but I don’t feel like I can continue. Despite my best efforts my work life has taken over my personal life. My physical health has declined over the last 5 years as well. I work in a good field with a transferable skill set so think the timing is good to take a pause, get refreshed, and look for something better. The goal wouldn’t be to find something more lucrative but instead focus on what I would enjoy and provide fulfillment. It seems like everyone I know has a myriad of options open to them.

Here are the relevant items to hopefully garner some feedback:

- MFJ, DW works full time, gross pay 110K, would join her health insurance
- DW and I are in our low 40’s
- 9 year child
- Annual expenses around 100K total; could be trimmed pretty easily
- Both cars paid off
- 12 month emergency fund for half of expenses (assumes wife continues to work)
- Taxable Account 130K
- Pretax Accounts $1.2M
- 529 for child is 40% funded to stated final amount

Questions:

- Has anyone leaped without a plan? There is no way I can manage the additional stress of job searching while working. How did your leap go? Any tips/tricks?
- Financially - Do we look okay to survive this?
- My first thought is to take 30 days to just regroup and focus on my health. From there I’ll begin the process of looking for a new role.

Thanks for any input!
Last edited by 2Scoops on Mon May 17, 2021 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lalamimi
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Lalamimi »

You don't say how old you are, but it sounds like my husband's situation at age 56 in 2006. He walked in and quit one day. No plan. I was making a bit less than your DW, and our kids were grown. Go for it. He never went back to work. Fortunately, my career kicked in gear and when I was laid off 3 yrs ago, I was making twice the salary. Health is the most important. He worked 4 12s at a highly stressful job. It took months to recover from the stress, and he still only sleeps about 4 hrs a night. Life is short.
Topic Author
2Scoops
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by 2Scoops »

Lalamimi wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:33 am You don't say how old you are, but it sounds like my husband's situation at age 56 in 2006. He walked in and quit one day. No plan. I was making a bit less than your DW, and our kids were grown. Go for it. He never went back to work. Fortunately, my career kicked in gear and when I was laid off 3 yrs ago, I was making twice the salary. Health is the most important. He worked 4 12s at a highly stressful job. It took months to recover from the stress, and he still only sleeps about 4 hrs a night. Life is short.
Thanks for the quick reply. DW and I are both low 40’s.
dak
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by dak »

You haven't listed your age - that would give us a little more perspective on where you are at in your career and may stimulate advice to move ( or not) into a different direction.

In the short term, you will go negative as far as cash flow - your spouse's income of 110K will not support expenses of 100K once taxes are considered. Your funds in your after tax account would need to be used to support that level of spending.

1) Is your spouse on board with your proposed plan?
2) If you are leaving anyway, why not dial it back a bit at work and commence a job search? Things simply look "cleaner" to a potential new employer if you are already employed.
3) If you can stick it out a bit longer and want a sabbatical, then immediately start living on your reduced budget. You stated expenses of $100K could be dialed down, so do that before you quit to see what that is really like, or at least produce an accounting of your spending and go through it with your spouse and agree on the cuts to be made.
ShowMeTheER
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by ShowMeTheER »

You’re fine so long as wife is on board. Take 6 months off and determine what is next%.
oldfatguy
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by oldfatguy »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am
- Has anyone leaped without a plan? There is no way I can manage the additional stress of job searching while working. How did your leap go?
I did this once in my mid-30s, for similar reasons as you describe. I was married at the time, but had no children. About 3 months after I quit, my wife was laid off from her job and would not be employed again for about a year, and the job she eventually got was a significant pay cut from her previous position. It was a financial and psychological strain on us both, and we divorced a couple of years later. It took me about 3 years of working a series of short-term positions, and a move to a new state, to finally end up in a "permanent" job. YMMV
Topic Author
2Scoops
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by 2Scoops »

dak wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:40 am You haven't listed your age - that would give us a little more perspective on where you are at in your career and may stimulate advice to move ( or not) into a different direction.

In the short term, you will go negative as far as cash flow - your spouse's income of 110K will not support expenses of 100K once taxes are considered. Your funds in your after tax account would need to be used to support that level of spending.

1) Is your spouse on board with your proposed plan?
2) If you are leaving anyway, why not dial it back a bit at work and commence a job search? Things simply look "cleaner" to a potential new employer if you are already employed.
3) If you can stick it out a bit longer and want a sabbatical, then immediately start living on your reduced budget. You stated expenses of $100K could be dialed down, so do that before you quit to see what that is really like, or at least produce an accounting of your spending and go through it with your spouse and agree on the cuts to be made.
I edited my original post to include my age (low 40’s). DW is on board with the plan. Dialing things back at work is very hard because I’m basically the point person for everything. There is no delegating or slacking off. My calendar is full of meetings that still leave the actual work to get done afterwards. I’m also not wired to put things in neutral.

I like your idea of trimming now. I’ll start that immediately.
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galawdawg
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by galawdawg »

Have you taken any time off or a vacation lately? I'm not talking about a weekend getaway, I'm talking about at least a week, even two. Completely unplugged from work. No calls, no emails.

If not, may I recommend that you start with that approach? This past fifteen months or so has been a very stressful and difficult time for most folks and making a significant life change, such as the one you are contemplating, should not be a decision that is rushed or made without exploring alternative options. So get completely away from work and the daily grind and do some soul searching about your current career and employment, whether that situation can be improved, and if not, where you want to go next.

On the other hand, if you have already taken time away from work and soberly contemplated your options, assuming that your wife is in agreement with your plan to make a change, then it sounds like you can certainly financially survive a resignation without other employment in hand. But recognize it is almost always easier to get a new job while you have one than it is during a period of unemployment. It really would be best to put some feelers out in your field and even get the job search started while you are still working.

But either way, you'll be fine.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
CloseEnough
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by CloseEnough »

I did this, although a bit later in career and life than you. My "leap" was financed by a good package, but, I did not have the safety net of a working spouse. It was a great move to refresh, focus on some more important things in life and leave a toxic work situation. Seems like you have a good handle on the finances. If you decide to make the move, I recommend a book "Transitions", by William Bridges, for a read during your 30 day regroup. Good luck.
HomeStretch
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by HomeStretch »

Do you have any vacation time accrued? If so, consider telling your boss today that you must take 1-2 weeks vacation starting immediately for personal reasons. Be assertive and don’t give any more detail. Put an away message on your work voicemail and email. Then walk out the door.

Use the time off to take a breather and assess your next steps, update your resume, network, contact recruiters and submit some online applications. All very do-able in 1-2 weeks. During your time off, don’t answer any work calls or emails. The worst they can do is fire you. Which would be better as you would be eligible for unemployment. You can always give your notice on the last day of your vacation.

If you do quit without another job, do trim the annual expenses that you posted could be cut easily so you can live off your spouse’s take home pay without dipping into your portfolio.
Last edited by HomeStretch on Mon May 17, 2021 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Topic Author
2Scoops
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by 2Scoops »

galawdawg wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:51 am Have you taken any time off or a vacation lately? I'm not talking about a weekend getaway, I'm talking about at least a week, even two. Completely unplugged from work. No calls, no emails.

If not, may I recommend that you start with that approach? This past fifteen months or so has been a very stressful and difficult time for most folks and making a significant life change, such as the one you are contemplating, should not be a decision that is rushed or made without exploring alternative options. So get completely away from work and the daily grind and do some soul searching about your current career and employment, whether that situation can be improved, and if not, where you want to go next.

On the other hand, if you have already taken time away from work and soberly contemplated your options, assuming that your wife is in agreement with your plan to make a change, then it sounds like you can certainly financially survive a resignation without other employment in hand. But recognize it is almost always easier to get a new job while you have one than it is during a period of unemployment. It really would be best to put some feelers out in your field and even get the job search started while you are still working.

But either way, you'll be fine.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
Thanks for the response. I have never had a vacation that involved unplugging from work. The last couple week-long trips that I took with the family involved my wife driving and me sitting in the back of the SUV with our son, connected via hotspot doing work. The vacation also included daily calls, maintaining oversight of email, etc. Covid is precluding us from taking trips now as our son is high risk.
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gr7070
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by gr7070 »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am I’ve hit a breaking point at work. It’s been coming for a long time
Seems like just getting a new job was an appropriate option for a long time.

Why not just do that now?

Start saying no at work, too. That's a reasonable option - especially for someone who's open to quitting with no real plan.
regularguy455
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by regularguy455 »

I almost rage quit last March. I hung in there and disengaged while looking for a new job. I hope to never experience that level of stress again but I’m glad I didn’t quit and found a better job.
wolf359
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by wolf359 »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:55 am
galawdawg wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:51 am Have you taken any time off or a vacation lately? I'm not talking about a weekend getaway, I'm talking about at least a week, even two. Completely unplugged from work. No calls, no emails.

If not, may I recommend that you start with that approach? This past fifteen months or so has been a very stressful and difficult time for most folks and making a significant life change, such as the one you are contemplating, should not be a decision that is rushed or made without exploring alternative options. So get completely away from work and the daily grind and do some soul searching about your current career and employment, whether that situation can be improved, and if not, where you want to go next.

On the other hand, if you have already taken time away from work and soberly contemplated your options, assuming that your wife is in agreement with your plan to make a change, then it sounds like you can certainly financially survive a resignation without other employment in hand. But recognize it is almost always easier to get a new job while you have one than it is during a period of unemployment. It really would be best to put some feelers out in your field and even get the job search started while you are still working.

But either way, you'll be fine.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
Thanks for the response. I have never had a vacation that involved unplugging from work. The last couple week-long trips that I took with the family involved my wife driving and me sitting in the back of the SUV with our son, connected via hotspot doing work. The vacation also included daily calls, maintaining oversight of email, etc. Covid is precluding us from taking trips now as our son is high risk.
I believe the advice isn't to take an actual travel vacation. It's to use the time off to disconnect from the stress, regroup, and possibly conduct your job search. You indicated that you couldn't do it during work due to stress.

Take time off to decompress and/or hunt for a job. Don't tell them that you're hunting for a job.
desiderium
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by desiderium »

Go for it
You have a lot saved up and can take the time required to reassess your goals
I bet if you could improve your happiness with your work situation you would have already
Getting some distance from the grind/pressure/constant plug-in will do wonders
Trim expenses, but don't just transfer your compulsive work habits to your finances, you will drive your family nuts
Do some deep thinking, but when the answers don't come immediately, be patient. You will learn a tremendous amount about your 40-something self, but it may take a few months
Exercise a lot
Try new things
Try to keep a regular journal. Don't think you will read it later for insight. It helps clarify your thinking.
Adopt the view that this as a gift--a big opportunity to reshape things for the next part of your life.
Topic Author
2Scoops
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by 2Scoops »

gr7070 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:55 am
2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am I’ve hit a breaking point at work. It’s been coming for a long time
Seems like just getting a new job was an appropriate option for a long time.

Why not just do that now?

Start saying no at work, too. That's a reasonable option - especially for someone who's open to quitting with no real plan.
It’s so hard to accurately portray the workplace dynamics while maintaining some level of anonymity. Saying no just isn’t an option. Employee work-life balance, mental health, or well being just isn’t a priority outside of HR presentations. There is no control over what you are involved in.

A few specific examples beyond the vacations:

- MIssed the virtually all of my child’s doctor, dentist, school plays, appointments
- worked from the ballpark on the first game I took my son to
- Routinely have worked 16+ hour days for extended periods with bottom line impact; no additional compensation despite making a business case

Why haven’t I taken steps before? It’s been based on loyalty. I have always thought about the impact to others before putting myself first. It’s also been based on the misguided notion that things might improve.

-
yohac
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by yohac »

I would at least let my manager know I was at my breaking point. Granted it sounds like they already know and don't care. Try not to blindside any coworkers who you would ask for references.
Topic Author
2Scoops
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by 2Scoops »

yohac wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:10 pm I would at least let my manager know I was at my breaking point. Granted it sounds like they already know and don't care. Try not to blindside any coworkers who you would ask for references.
Great point and definitely something I would take care of. I would be available to anyone on my team or really within the organization for as long as they needed me… even after hours. I care about everyone as people, their success, and the long term impact that I had on the business. My reputation is way too solid to let the final hours ruin it.
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bampf
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by bampf »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:55 am
galawdawg wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:51 am Have you taken any time off or a vacation lately? I'm not talking about a weekend getaway, I'm talking about at least a week, even two. Completely unplugged from work. No calls, no emails.

If not, may I recommend that you start with that approach? This past fifteen months or so has been a very stressful and difficult time for most folks and making a significant life change, such as the one you are contemplating, should not be a decision that is rushed or made without exploring alternative options. So get completely away from work and the daily grind and do some soul searching about your current career and employment, whether that situation can be improved, and if not, where you want to go next.

On the other hand, if you have already taken time away from work and soberly contemplated your options, assuming that your wife is in agreement with your plan to make a change, then it sounds like you can certainly financially survive a resignation without other employment in hand. But recognize it is almost always easier to get a new job while you have one than it is during a period of unemployment. It really would be best to put some feelers out in your field and even get the job search started while you are still working.

But either way, you'll be fine.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
Thanks for the response. I have never had a vacation that involved unplugging from work. The last couple week-long trips that I took with the family involved my wife driving and me sitting in the back of the SUV with our son, connected via hotspot doing work. The vacation also included daily calls, maintaining oversight of email, etc. Covid is precluding us from taking trips now as our son is high risk.
Respectfully, that isn't a vacation. I think one of two things is true: Either your current employment situation is so complex and requires your oversite that you can't take a vacation, or you aren't really aware of how to take a vacation. Not uncommon in this day and age.

I might suggest a few things:

1. Start by saying no. No, I can't meet with you at this time. No, I can't attend the meeting. No I can't work this weekend. No I won't let my email ruin my evening.
2. Start at a fixed time. Stop at a fixed time. Focus on the work that must be done during those periods.
3. Set personal and professional boundaries. I am sure your employer does. The very second they are at risk of letting the business die they will be rid of you rather than let that happen. You need to treat things the same way. If you are at risk of losing your business (your life) you need to be rid of them that very day.
4. Put your employer on a performance improvement plan. Hold them accountable for certain things and if they are not able to meet your expectations, then you must fire your employer. Those expectations have to be specific, achievable, realistic, they must be measurable and time bounded. For example, specifically I will no longer work on email or take meetings during vacations. This is specific, measurable, achievable realistic and time bounded. If the employer is unwilling or unable to meet that goal then you need to fire them.

In the near term, take a huge deep breath. You can make this work. You have a good safety cushion and it sounds like you are financially savvy. Change the relationship to be an equal relationship with expectations on both sides. You got this. Take some time to get right internally and then revisit before you are hasty. Stress does terrible things to people.

Regards,
--Bampf
Last edited by bampf on Mon May 17, 2021 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vanbogle59
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by vanbogle59 »

I think I have retired 4 times. :happy
Each time with the idea that it wasn't permanent.

The first time was long in planning (25 years at megacorp), but swift in announcement (I got RIF'd, so 30 days notice).
All the others were: "This isn't what I want. Make a change." Pulled the trigger that month.

My experience/advice is: Don't have a plan today? Make one. Tomorrow that will no longer be the excuse.
Honestly, it doesn't take that long. And if the plan makes sense, why not?
Ensure DW is on board, but don't let the fear of change or uncertainty be the only considerations.

I've known dozens of people who have left their jobs for these sorts of reasons. I can only think of 1 who regretted it 3 years later (and she got shafted by HR).

Best of LUCK!
BTW: your original post kind of sounds like a plan to me! :sharebeer
tedgeorge
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by tedgeorge »

I agree with the others about setting boundaries. It can be hard to set those after the fact and I've seen several people quit before the company identifies that job should have been done by two or three people. It's going to be really hard because I'll bet there are others on your team that feel the same way as you and seeing someone else establish those boundaries may make them think you are not carrying your share. That is not the case my friend.

The company will lay you off in a heartbeat without any consideration for the time and effort you are putting in and not being compensated for. Treat them accordingly.

Good luck!
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BrooklynInvest
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by BrooklynInvest »

Am very familiar with this. Have left without a plan once before and was struggling mightily on a daily basis with current role. Today I'm struggling slightly less by setting a date. I'm done in 10 months max. This has allowed me to manage the stress a little better but not to the point where I'll consider staying.

Loyalty is not reciprocated. If the job is impacting your health and your relationships then unless you can't afford food and shelter without it I know what I'd do in similar circumstances.

Good luck OP. You'll be fine.
humblecoder
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by humblecoder »

I agree with the posters who say that you should try to fix your current situation first. From what you describe, you are doing the work of two people, and you have no backups. This is not only a bad situation for you for all of the obvious reasons, but also for your manager and employer. Sounds like if you won the lottery tomorrow and left, they would be in big trouble.

I would have an open and honest conversation with your boss, highlighting these points:

1. I am currently doing the work of two people, working nights/weekends, with no end in sight.
2. I am on the verge of getting burned out. I haven't had a true day to myself in X years. I need to take 1-2 weeks off to recharge.
3. Going forward, I need to split the load with somebody.
4. Besides, if something happened to me (hit the lottery, etc), it is in the company's best interest to have an understudy anyway.
5. When I come back from vacation, I'll work with you on a plan to transition some of my knowledge to whomever you designate so that we have a bench.

If the manager is any good, he/she should be concerned not only for your work/life balance but the fact that they have no backup plan for you. Also a good manager would pick up on the fact that, although you aren't saying it explicitly, you are a flight risk, and they need to do something to stop you from flying away.

Then go on your vacation so that you can recharge your batteries. You don't actually need to go anywhere. Take your child to school. Get some ice cream with him/her. Have a dinner date with your spouse. Do some job hunting in case your employer doesn't make things right. When you get back, see if your boss makes good on a plan to have you train a backup person to share the load. If you still get stuck in your non-stop grind, then give your notice (hopefully with a job offer in hand from your job hunting). At least you could say that you were a team player and did your part to make them aware of an issue, and you are leaving because they did not address it.
ScubaHogg
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by ScubaHogg »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am

Here are the relevant items to hopefully garner some feedback:

- MFJ, DW works full time, gross pay 110K, would join her health insurance
- DW and I are in our low 40’s
- 9 year child
- Annual expenses around 100K total; could be trimmed pretty easily
- Both cars paid off
- 12 month emergency fund for half of expenses (assumes wife continues to work)
- Taxable Account 130K
- Pretax Accounts $1.2M
- 529 for child is 40% funded to stated final amount

Questions:

- Financially - Do we look okay to survive this?
To answer your original question, you have over $1.3M with a spouse's whose salary will likely cover virtually all your expenses if you can just trim back some. AND you will be covered on her health insurance. If you think your skills will transfer to another company at a reasonable salary AND your spouse is on board I say just do it.*

*to reemphasize, make sure she is on board. And make sure this is a decision you've slowly come to and not quitting in a huff because of how things have been in only the recent past. Also, quit in a smart way. If you've got some vacation, try taking it and tell them you'll be off the grid camping. Also give a reasonable notice to try and limit the bad blood.
“Conventional Treasury rates are risk free only in the sense that they guarantee nominal principal. But their real rate of return is uncertain until after the fact.” -Risk Less and Prosper
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gr7070
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by gr7070 »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:08 pm
gr7070 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:55 am
2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am I’ve hit a breaking point at work. It’s been coming for a long time
Seems like just getting a new job was an appropriate option for a long time.

Why not just do that now?

Start saying no at work, too. That's a reasonable option - especially for someone who's open to quitting with no real plan.
It’s so hard to accurately portray the workplace dynamics while maintaining some level of anonymity. Saying no just isn’t an option.
I'm quite certain it is an option. Again, especially if you're contemplating quitting on your own. You can tell them no.
2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:08 pm A few specific examples beyond the vacations:

- MIssed the virtually all of my child’s doctor, dentist, school plays, appointments
- worked from the ballpark on the first game I took my son to
- Routinely have worked 16+ hour days for extended periods with bottom line impact; no additional compensation despite making a business case

Why haven’t I taken steps before? It’s been based on loyalty.
Your loyalty is clearly misguided. By your own admission so are your priorities.

Now that you're at the point where you might quit without a job, that loyalty no longer exists. So go get a new job...

This really is this simple. Seriously it is.

Is it easy? Clearly not. I'm not even suggesting it is or even should be.
Simple, though, it is.
chipperd
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by chipperd »

Watch or re-watch the movie "Office Space".
Then decide if you can take on the main character's persona and say no to anything you don't want to do, or not.
That will influence your next move.
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
KlangFool
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by KlangFool »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:15 pm
Great point and definitely something I would take care of. I would be available to anyone on my team or really within the organization for as long as they needed me… even after hours. I care about everyone as people, their success, and the long term impact that I had on the business. My reputation is way too solid to let the final hours ruin it.
2Scoops,

<<I care about everyone as people, their success, and the long term impact that I had on the business. >>

I disagreed. If this is true, you would had learned to say no and set the boundary long ago. This is like sticking your finger into a hole on a dam but tell no one about the hole. Then, one day the hole is too big and the dam burst.

For the long-term success of the organization, anyone should be expendable. Hence, anyone can take a vacation and do not have to handle anything. But, it is not your responsibility to ensure the long-term success of your employer. It is your manager and your employer's responsibility to make sure that no one is overloaded and likely to quit with no back up.

<<I would be available to anyone on my team or really within the organization for as long as they needed me… even after hours. >>

Why is this necessary? If this is necessary, how could the organization survive in the long-run? Have you ever consider the possibility that you are the problem? And, if you do not change your mentality, you will face the same problem at the new employer.

KlangFool
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flyingaway
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by flyingaway »

You are talking about quiting, and later finding another job, what is the problem with that? People do that often, sometimes their employers do that for them.
You are not talking about retiring forever. But if your wife doesn't mind and is willing to work for another 20 years, you might just retire and never go back to work.
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leeks
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by leeks »

ShowMeTheER wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:45 am You’re fine so long as wife is on board. Take 6 months off and determine what is next%.
+1
KlangFool
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by KlangFool »

Folks,

In any reasonable size organization, 20% of the folks are doing 80% of the works. So, if you are any good, you will be overwork if you do not learn to say "no". And, the horrible part of this is if you are overwork, the quality of your work will go down and/or you will be burn out. Aka, you would not last long.

A) Not everything is worth doing.

B) If you say "yes" to everyone, you are a pushover. No one will think highly of you.

C) If you willing to work for free (weekend, vacation time, and so on), your time must not be very valuable to you. Hence, by extension, you are not that valuable too.

Set a priority. Do whatever can be done with good quality within your office hour. Or else, face burn out and disappointment.

KlangFool
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Stinky
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Stinky »

humblecoder wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:58 pm I agree with the posters who say that you should try to fix your current situation first. From what you describe, you are doing the work of two people, and you have no backups. This is not only a bad situation for you for all of the obvious reasons, but also for your manager and employer. Sounds like if you won the lottery tomorrow and left, they would be in big trouble.

I would have an open and honest conversation with your boss, highlighting these points:

1. I am currently doing the work of two people, working nights/weekends, with no end in sight.
2. I am on the verge of getting burned out. I haven't had a true day to myself in X years. I need to take 1-2 weeks off to recharge.
3. Going forward, I need to split the load with somebody.
4. Besides, if something happened to me (hit the lottery, etc), it is in the company's best interest to have an understudy anyway.
5. When I come back from vacation, I'll work with you on a plan to transition some of my knowledge to whomever you designate so that we have a bench.

If the manager is any good, he/she should be concerned not only for your work/life balance but the fact that they have no backup plan for you. Also a good manager would pick up on the fact that, although you aren't saying it explicitly, you are a flight risk, and they need to do something to stop you from flying away.

Then go on your vacation so that you can recharge your batteries. You don't actually need to go anywhere. Take your child to school. Get some ice cream with him/her. Have a dinner date with your spouse. Do some job hunting in case your employer doesn't make things right. When you get back, see if your boss makes good on a plan to have you train a backup person to share the load. If you still get stuck in your non-stop grind, then give your notice (hopefully with a job offer in hand from your job hunting). At least you could say that you were a team player and did your part to make them aware of an issue, and you are leaving because they did not address it.
This is a solid plan. Try to salvage the current job first. If the situation at your current job can be fixed, great.

But based on the things you posted, I’m not optimistic that your current employer can/will meet your needs. If you choose to take this route, I think that you should set a definite time to reassess whether your employer is responsive to your needs.

Three months should be plenty time to see if your employer will alleviate your current workload. If your employer isn’t making progress (and a lot of it) during that time, be prepared to give your notice.

And if you do stay for the three months, be prepared to say “no” to any requests that are out of bounds during that time.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
Texanbybirth
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Texanbybirth »

KlangFool wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:07 pm
2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:15 pm
Great point and definitely something I would take care of. I would be available to anyone on my team or really within the organization for as long as they needed me… even after hours. I care about everyone as people, their success, and the long term impact that I had on the business. My reputation is way too solid to let the final hours ruin it.
2Scoops,

<<I care about everyone as people, their success, and the long term impact that I had on the business. >>

I disagreed. If this is true, you would had learned to say no and set the boundary long ago. This is like sticking your finger into a hole on a dam but tell no one about the hole. Then, one day the hole is too big and the dam burst.

For the long-term success of the organization, anyone should be expendable. Hence, anyone can take a vacation and do not have to handle anything. But, it is not your responsibility to ensure the long-term success of your employer. It is your manager and your employer's responsibility to make sure that no one is overloaded and likely to quit with no back up.

<<I would be available to anyone on my team or really within the organization for as long as they needed me… even after hours. >>

Why is this necessary? If this is necessary, how could the organization survive in the long-run? Have you ever consider the possibility that you are the problem? And, if you do not change your mentality, you will face the same problem at the new employer.

KlangFool
KF, you make some really good, albeit contrarian, points in this post. That is some food for the OP's thoughts.

I'd start by saying no, and taking a vacation where you don't answer phone/e-mails. I bet you'll get fired quickly, but maybe you'll get a severance out of it? Otherwise, your wife is your saving grace. With her employment y'all will be fine.
“The strong cannot be brave. Only the weak can be brave; and yet again, in practice, only those who can be brave can be trusted, in time of doubt, to be strong.“ - GK Chesterton
momvesting
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by momvesting »

Yep, did this a year ago. Come to think of it, your post and how you say some things, like taking a real vacation, aren't possible, sounds like we might have come from similar places. I'm a teacher, or I was. Teaching during Covid was a nightmare. The work and responsibilities just kept piling up. The support disappeared. You are in a precarious situation because if you draw boundaries, it is the kids who get less, not the parents or administration. If you complained, the response you got was, "If you don't like it, quit!" So I quit (after the school year ended, of course).

I am so glad I did. Finances worked out much better than expected. The one big, HUGE piece of advice I would give is after you quit, don't wallow in regret and allow yourself to be depressed. Instead, look forward to your new job: being the best parent and spouse that you can possibly be. Take on all the household chores. Cook nice meals. Do fun activities with your kid. Create family activities like game nights or movie nights that you set up and clean up, your spouse and child just have to be there and enjoy it. Look forward to giving your family added support at home. As dumb as it sounds, I cook and clean with a smile because I know that I am offering the rest of my family a better home life than we had before.
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2Scoops
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by 2Scoops »

Such insightful people with great perspectives. I’m in a better position on so many levels for finding this community.

I’m going to digest all of the responses over the next day or two. As I mentioned previously, it’s so hard to capture the spirit of the work environment in abbreviated posts. I can assure you all I have had many 1 on 1’s with my manager about about boundaries, priorities, resource allocation, staffing levels, etc. I’ve never threatened to leave as it’s not in my nature. My focus has always been on finding a solution, not walking away.

The decision won’t be emotional to the best of my ability. My only goal is to create the right balance of work and life while maximizing fulfillment.

Thank you all again!
CloseEnough
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by CloseEnough »

Getting fired is different than deciding to leave on your own, when it comes to finding a new job.
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Golf maniac »

The organization obviously doesn’t have the work/life balance you need or deserve. I would sit down with DW and set a budget on her salary only. Then go in the next day and resign. If giving 2 weeks notice is required, do that. Then wrap up what you can and leave. Then take at least a month to decompress and recover physically and mentally. During this time look back on why you took on so much of the responsibility and work. Have lunch with a couple of your former peers separately and discuss how they perceived your situation.

Then start looking for a position with a company that has a better balance. Change your behaviors to ensure you don’t get into the same situation you were in at the last employer. You don’t want to be dead at 50, so take this seriously and make the changes necessary.
an_asker
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by an_asker »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:15 pm
yohac wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:10 pm I would at least let my manager know I was at my breaking point. Granted it sounds like they already know and don't care. Try not to blindside any coworkers who you would ask for references.
Great point and definitely something I would take care of. I would be available to anyone on my team or really within the organization for as long as they needed me… even after hours. I care about everyone as people, their success, and the long term impact that I had on the business. My reputation is way too solid to let the final hours ruin it.
If I work two jobs for the pay of one, I would have a reputation ... of a workoholic!

You definitely need to learn the art of saying no, delegating, and disconnecting. Don't think that the workplace won't function without you or that no one knows this fact (it appears that you don't, but others do). Why else would your pay be stagnating with the reputation that you claim you have?

Sorry for the bitter truth, but I am saying like it is. I am similar to you in terms of stagnation of work and pay; however, I refuse to give them more than an inch than they have paid for. So, my days off are mine and my vacation is mine as well. I don't work on vacation days, whether at home or on the road.
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by fortunefavored »

I feel for ya.. I worked in those environments for years.

My suggestion is to just pull up and let them fire you while you look for a job. Tell them you are having a nervous breakdown and need to pause. It could take months for them to work out a performance "plan" (aka "firing plan") or get you onto the next layoff train.

So there's no reason to quit, let them do the work while you job hunt.
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by MishkaWorries »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:15 pm I would be available to anyone on my team or really within the organization for as long as they needed me… even after hours. I care about everyone as people, their success, and the long term impact that I had on the business.
This is not a healthy attitude. Is it really the company pushing too much or you taking on the hero pose? You may switch jobs but I believe the issues will continue unless you learn to set boundaries and say no.
We plan. G-d laughs.
KlangFool
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by KlangFool »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 1:40 pm
My focus has always been on finding a solution, not walking away.
2Scoops,

But, why should you do someone's else job? You do not own the company. You are paid to do your job and only your job. Why should you do everyone's else job and be responsible for everyone else? You are not a C-level person. You are not paid to do a C-level job. You do not have responsibility, authority, and compensation to do a C-level job.

Do you job. Stop doing and taking responsibility of everyone's else job.

Sometimes, walking away is the solution. A small leak at the dam is better than letting the whole dam burst. By sticking your finger at the leak, no one will notice the leak. Eventually, the dam will burst.

No everything needs to be solved. A small problem/failure is better than total collapse.

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Astronaut4
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Astronaut4 »

Although you say your wife is fine with it, I feel it’s unfair for one person to shoulder all the work responsibility and that goes for outside and inside the home. If you’re quitting anyway, funnel your energy while still employed toward finding that next job. So what, if you disappoint your employer?.. you’re quitting anyway. More fair to your wife in this case.
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mrmass
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by mrmass »

You mentioned your child was at risk...perhaps you qualify for FMLA? or the PFMLA (or whatever the paid one is called)
Exchme
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Exchme »

The important relationships in your life are with your wife and kids, not your boss! No spouse on the planet that is truly ok with 16 hour days, no vacations, no weekends, missing kids' events. So quit trying to be accommodative of your boss and start being accommodative of your wife and kids. It's just that simple and long overdue. It's up to you to stop the abuse, certainly your boss won't do it for you.
Afty
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Afty »

2 thoughts:

1) I recently left my job of a decade for a new job/company, and while my situation wasn't as acute, I empathize with OP's feelings around being spread too thin, having too much responsibility, etc. A colleague described the accumulation of responsibilities at a company over time as being "like barnacles on a ship." While I'm very happy with the new job/company, I do wish I had made more of an effort to say no and hand responsibilities off to others (or just let things drop) maybe a year or two ago. If you leave, they're going to have to find someone to do your work, so you might as well see if you can make that happen without leaving.

2) I've also seen this behavior in some of my reports, usually my most responsible and reliable team members. As a manager, I've sometimes stepped in and forced these people to stop doing things and hand them off to other team members. People tend to grumble initially b/c they believe they are the only person who can do these things, but are much happier within 3-6 months when they learn that others are more capable than they thought.
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by srt7 »

Exchme wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 3:16 pm The important relationships in your life are with your wife and kids, not your boss! No spouse on the planet that is truly ok with 16 hour days, no vacations, no weekends, missing kids' events. So quit trying to be accommodative of your boss and start being accommodative of your wife and kids. It's just that simple and long overdue. It's up to you to stop the abuse, certainly your boss won't do it for you.
This.

Enough with the excuses, OP. Get your priorities straight.

Sorry for the strong words but it had to be said.
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
Ed 2
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Ed 2 »

2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am Hi All,

I’ve hit a breaking point at work. It’s been coming for a long time as Ive sacrificed my family and health for the sake of my job. That sacrifice hasn’t paid off. It’s your normal list of negative work qualities - stagnant pay, high stress levels, resource shortages, increasing time demands, no leadership support, no control of my schedule or priorities,etc. I’m not disgruntled at all but I don’t feel like I can continue. Despite my best efforts my work life has taken over my personal life. My physical health has declined over the last 5 years as well. I work in a good field with a transferable skill set so think the timing is good to take a pause, get refreshed, and look for something better. The goal wouldn’t be to find something more lucrative but instead focus on what I would enjoy and provide fulfillment. It seems like everyone I know has a myriad of options open to them.

Here are the relevant items to hopefully garner some feedback:

- MFJ, DW works full time, gross pay 110K, would join her health insurance
- DW and I are in our low 40’s
- 9 year child
- Annual expenses around 100K total; could be trimmed pretty easily
- Both cars paid off
- 12 month emergency fund for half of expenses (assumes wife continues to work)
- Taxable Account 130K
- Pretax Accounts $1.2M
- 529 for child is 40% funded to stated final amount

Questions:

- Has anyone leaped without a plan? There is no way I can manage the additional stress of job searching while working. How did your leap go? Any tips/tricks?
- Financially - Do we look okay to survive this?
- My first thought is to take 30 days to just regroup and focus on my health. From there I’ll begin the process of looking for a new role.

Thanks for any input!
I am in this kind of situation. I was planning to retire in four years but actually coming to work like it is my last day. Like above posters I agree , health should be a priority in this situation. You will adjust . We all do. Time will heal. Most important you need to figure out how to make bigger after tax account and hold on until Social security and Medicare kicks in. I am 51 btw.
"The fund industry doesn't have a lot of heroes, but he (Bogle) is one of them," Russ Kinnel
dowse
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by dowse »

OP, beware of a possible counteroffer. It's quite possible that management at your current job will be shocked to learn that anything was wrong because you have just been saying yes to everything. They may offer to increase your pay, fix the problems, etc. In my 40+ year career in business, people who accept a counteroffer usually end up leaving anyway. While they may come through with a increase in pay, changing the environment and/or culture is much more difficult, and those areas seem to be at the root of your problem. On the other hand, sometimes it's ok to accept a counteroffer, especially since you won't have to renege on another offer already accepted, knowing that you are buying time to look for another job while staying employed.
This scenario just happened to my son a couple of weeks ago. He gave his notice, they didn't want to lose him, so made accommodations to his assignments which he accepted. He figures he has nothing to lose as he can keep looking in the meantime and quit if things don't pan out.

Good luck!
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Watty
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Watty »

One thing that has not been mentioned is that you might consider getting some counseling to help deal with the stress if you stay if you leave.
2Scoops wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 11:28 am That sacrifice hasn’t paid off.
One thing to consider is that by always being there and working the insane hours even when you were on "vacation" you have made yourself indispensable so that it is impossible to promote you.

If they promoted you that would leave a big gap in the workload and they might need to hire several people to fill your spot. Even if they did hire several people it could take six months or longer for them to come up to speed.

When there is an opening you could be promoted to it would be a lot easier to promote someone else or hire someone from outside the company.
thx1138
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by thx1138 »

Many people have given you excellent advice from a variety of perspectives. I’ll add just one more I haven’t seen said yet. Based on all the numbers you gave and your age you are in no way whatsoever being remotely compensated enough to work in that kind of environment. It’s exploitive poison. Get out. Sure, people put up with that sort of stuff but for real money that means they can stop working young. Don’t enable further exploitation on the way out, set boundaries.

I think what’s left for you is to decide on your exit strategy. Right now you sound like you are more worried about the company and your coworkers than yourself and your family. That’s not particularly healthy. You are working so much right now and are so fatigued that critical and creative thinking is likely impossible and your brain is probably on autopilot. Somehow get a real break (phone and email off for a week or two), get rested and you’ll have the mental energy to think this through and come out of it just fine and happier.
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Re: Quitting job with no plan- Please help assess my situation

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

If you do attempt to get another job, take some time to learn something about the work culture. And obviously set boundaries quickly to ensure you don't end up in the same position you are in now.

I spent my entire career at MegaCorp, and moved into many different positions. I always knew the work culture of my possible peers before I made any attempt to move into a position, or to accept an offer for a new position. I had a good work ethic, and reputation, but I never wanted to work more than 40 hours a week unless the additional time was a short-lived event and I knew once a project was over my hours would be reduced to my preferred number. I was a good producer for the company with just working 40 hours a week usually.

Life is way too short to put so much burden on your shoulders. It isn't fair to your family, as you are putting them behind your desires to accept everything that is your responsibility and more.

Good luck! Your family deserves a parent who is present, and not always engaged in work activities while off the clock.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
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