Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

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livesoft
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by livesoft »

I was struck by the verbosity of the original post. I would not want to hire someone so verbose myself.
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Orangutan
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Orangutan »

If you want a job, figure out who the manager of the position is and email them directly with your resume attached. That’s the only time efficient thing to do. I wouldn’t even apply before sending the email. I think this holds true to anything from McDonalds to Goldman Sachs. Of course, assuming you’re not applying to some sort of rigid program or internship.
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Orangutan »

livesoft wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:47 pm I was struck by the verbosity of the original post. I would not want to hire someone so verbose myself.
Seems ok to me. It’s frustrating as heck job searching.
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DiggleRex
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by DiggleRex »

Thank you everyone for your point of views and feedback. I appreciate it.
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by livesoft »

I wonder if there is anyone reading this on the other side that makes use of the "- Complete this 230 item questionnaire " in order for me (us) to learn what they do with these things. That is, I didn't think the thread had anybody hiring who used such questionnaires, so who are these people? There was some speculation but not an actual real person who made applicants complete such long questionnaires.
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Normchad
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Normchad »

I hire people. I’m not part of HR, but I do the interviewing and make the hiring decisions for my group. I typically hire about a dozen engineers a year.

We get buried in applications, and need some way to whittle the pile down. It’s easy to apply to a thousand jobs, so we need a way to quickly discard most of it.

So we do have some extra steps, and in some cases give take home questions that require written answers before we decide to interview or not. We have to do this because 90% of all applicants overstate their capabilities and experience. There is not enough fidelity in their resumes to make a reasonable decision.

Correctly matching people to jobs is flat out hard. We do the best we can, and we still know we are going to make mistakes. We will hire some people that will fail. We will reject some people that would have been awesome. We will hire some round pegs for square holes.

Everybody is struggling with how to do a better job at this.

There was another thread a while ago, talking about disclosing salary info in an application. This is why we ask for it, because we don’t want to waste our time or yours if these is.a gross mismatch there.

And as someone else said, if you can’t follow basic instructions, or aren’t willing to spend an hour providing the info we need, or are too principled for whatever, then it probably wouldn’t work out anyway. In that bizarre way, I suppose the BS works.

And finally, there are lots of laws and regulations about various forms of discrimination. So there is a strong institutional imperative to ensure a uniform process is applied to all candidates.
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by slyfox1357 »

I can only commiserate with you as I recently went through nine months of similar 'job application process nonsense'. It was time consuming, 90% of the time is administrative and repetitive. You have to be a grinder, treat it as a P/T job and not take anything personally. It can potentially be soul crushing at times. Keep the right attitude though because when the opportunity arises for interviews, etc...best foot forward. Best of luck.
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ram
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by ram »

I think this all depends on the ratio of available candidates to available positions.
I hire physicians. The weeding out process for them happened 8 to 10 years ago when they applied to medical school. If you came out of the pipeline at the other end a job is waiting there for you.
I work in a geographic area that is considered unattractive and we have a physician shortage.
If a candidate applies at our website a human will call within next 24 hours and answer all questions. If he/she calls instead of applying at the website a human recruiter will answer the phone and stay on the phone as long as needed.
The candidate then sends a resume and 3 letters of support from MDs currently working with him/her. At this time the file will come to me and if I am interested I will call the candidate at a mutually convenient time set up by my secretary.
We then have the candidate and spouse fly in for the interview, take them out for a nice dinner, have a tour of the city and a tour with an approved realtor. (all costs paid). Sometimes a second visit is also needed. All interviewed candidates are given my email and office number and can contact me directly rather than going through the recruiter. For especially desirable candidates I will give my cell phone number.
We know that we need them more than they need us.

I know that the process is different while recruiting for other job positions and for some jobs we only take applications through our website with phone calls only after electronic weed out.

If possible you may want to consider enhancing your qualifications which would make you a more desirable candidate.
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Taz
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Taz »

I recently retired from a small but growing company which began to use assessments to create "ideal" job profiles based on successful employees. Some profile traits were personality based (outgoing, task focused, people focused), others were accuracy or analytical. The assessments were only sent to those we had already screened from a recruiter or through industry contacts, review of their resume, and an email or phone exchange if they seemed promising. Too many people shotgun resumes or do not tailor them to the position. If taking an assessment is too much work for someone, then perhaps they will be the ones that don't show any commitment to a job.

Obviously these assessments weren't perfect. But the CEO believed that the hiring failures we did have clearly showed a deviation from the profile so it was required. Plus, it cost us a pretty penny when we used a recruiter. Even if we received a "refund," the cost of training and impact on unemployment tax rates added up.
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Exchme
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Exchme »

I don't mean to be hard on the OP and I may have missed something in the OP's posts, but it seems like the OP could improve his tactics quite a bit. As internet readers, we never know the whole story, but there are some things that seemed like gaps. OP did not tell us about his personal network and how he has exhausted that. He did not tell us about his Linked In experience. He did not tell us how he has beat down the doors of every local company, willing to take anything the've got.

He should realize that the hirer is comparing his resume to others and forgiveness for being out of the job market due to COVID only lasts so long, after which it becomes a red flag - at some point any job is better than none on the resume.

Effectiveness at the "right hand man" job he wants would be very unlikely until he knows the people and internal systems at a company, but he seems surprised no one would hire him off the street for that role. He is ruling out using the part of his talent stack that probably makes him the most hirable (machinist) and instead wants to focus on clerical jobs that will seem to the hirer to be lower skilled. Every employer is always flooded with applicants for anything that sounds lower skilled, so it should not surprise that they can make the hiring process a pain for those jobs.
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DiggleRex
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by DiggleRex »

slyfox1357 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:49 pm I can only commiserate with you as I recently went through nine months of similar 'job application process nonsense'. It was time consuming, 90% of the time is administrative and repetitive. You have to be a grinder, treat it as a P/T job and not take anything personally. It can potentially be soul crushing at times. Keep the right attitude though because when the opportunity arises for interviews, etc...best foot forward. Best of luck.
Yes soul crushing, indeed. I'm not the "believe in fate" type so much, however, I do hope that it eventually works out with the right company and that all the ones that have been a waste of time have been a waste of time for a reason.
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DiggleRex
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by DiggleRex »

Exchme wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 9:33 am I don't mean to be hard on the OP and I may have missed something in the OP's posts, but it seems like the OP could improve his tactics quite a bit.
I didn't tell the whole story because I'm well aware my original post was very long, as is. Was just looking for general feedback/opinions and that is what I have received. Thank you.
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DiggleRex
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by DiggleRex »

livesoft wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:47 pm I was struck by the verbosity of the original post. I would not want to hire someone so verbose myself.
I was very cognizant of how long it was while I was writing it. I appreciate those who took the time to scan through it anyway and respond.
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by DiggleRex »

OnTrack2020 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 1:07 pm HR departments have taken the human aspect out of the process to the point where it is a joke and then wonder why they don't get good candidates. Anybody who is remotely intelligent simply will not do these tests for any extended period of time. Best of luck in your search.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
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DiggleRex
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by DiggleRex »

Orangutan wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:49 pm If you want a job, figure out who the manager of the position is and email them directly with your resume attached. That’s the only time efficient thing to do. I wouldn’t even apply before sending the email. I think this holds true to anything from McDonalds to Goldman Sachs. Of course, assuming you’re not applying to some sort of rigid program or internship.
I have been trying this lately. What would you suggest if they just redirect you back to/or tell you to apply via the listing (be it Indeed, or wherever)? Would you apply via the listing after emailing them or depends on what (if any) their response is?
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by GreendaleCC »

DiggleRex wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:42 am
sureshoe wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:26 am I know I'm not helping you directly, and I do empathize. But what type of position are you seeking? Not sure I can help here, but it might enable us to point you in some other direction.
It's okay--just venting and looking for various viewpoints. So while my degree was in mechanical engineering a long time ago, I never worked as an engineer. I usually end up in a role as the right hand man to the production/department supervisor, or even owner. While I can do machining, assembly and the like--I'm looking to get away from that--too physical and tedious. I often end up helping someone above me with processing/closing orders, data entry, inventory, organizing, computer work etc. I'm looking for less physical jobs now--office work, computer work.

None of these jobs I'm applying to have a good salary (just the way things are right now here)--so another reason I burn out during the application process when they want more and more of my time without even speaking to me.
Can you give us some more specific examples of “office work, computer work” positions you’ve applied to?

It sounds like the jobs you’re pursuing include things like data entry. I can imagine someone seeing a resume with a MechE degree and experience in staff jobs for owners/supervisors and thinking, “Overqualified. He will be super bored and won’t last long.”
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by GreendaleCC »

DiggleRex wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 9:51 am
Orangutan wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:49 pm If you want a job, figure out who the manager of the position is and email them directly with your resume attached. That’s the only time efficient thing to do. I wouldn’t even apply before sending the email. I think this holds true to anything from McDonalds to Goldman Sachs. Of course, assuming you’re not applying to some sort of rigid program or internship.
I have been trying this lately. What would you suggest if they just redirect you back to/or tell you to apply via the listing (be it Indeed, or wherever)? Would you apply via the listing after emailing them or depends on what (if any) their response is?
Could you share an example of how you’ve reached out to someone in this situation?
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DiggleRex
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by DiggleRex »

GreendaleCC wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:08 am Could you share an example of how you’ve reached out to someone in this situation?
Sure. Finding out who posted the position and/or the manager/supervisor for that role and emailing them with resume, saying I saw the position online and briefly explaining why I would be a good fit for the role, and thanking them for their time and consideration. Sometimes it leads to nothing, once recently they just redirected back to applying where I saw it listed, and another time they offered me an interview without applying to the job. I went on the interview and based on what I saw and was told, it was just not a fit for me.

To your other question. While I have a mechanical engineering degree, I haven't worked as an engineer nor did I desire to after college. It's been a long time since I've done things like CAD drawings etc. However, I've done plenty of machining, manufacturing, assembly, quality control, working within very tight tolerances, etc.

It's always been the case that the person I'm working for (whether an owner or department supervisor) recognizes my abilities and work ethic, and within weeks, starts adding many more tasks, such as using/learning the inventory management software to process orders, adjusting inventory, correcting bills of materials, etc. The assembly/production type works tends not to be done by someone with an engineering degree (to your point about being overqualified). At one job, I was the only person in the whole production department with a degree at all--but I got paid more than all of them and had more responsibilities.

I lose my mind with tedious work, like assembling the same items over and over, especially once getting really good at it. So I don't mind working in a manufacturing type environment, I just prefer the nature of work have more variety to it.

I've applied to things that don't have to do with manufacturing, and I realize that's harder for someone to give me a chance, because they may be wondering why is this person with an ME degree applying to this job. I'm a fast learner, so given the chance to do something new, I can pick it up--but no one will ever know that unless I get my foot in the door.
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DiggleRex
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by DiggleRex »

GreendaleCC wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:06 am Can you give us some more specific examples of “office work, computer work” positions you’ve applied to?
The most recent one is an inventory and receiving job at a medical device company. The responsibilities include things like inputting product info into excel and online inventory system, inspection of devices to meet quality standards, organization of inventory system, etc.
Normchad
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Normchad »

For those who are out of work due to COVID, be prepared to answer the following question in an interview. “What did you do during that time to improve yourself?”
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by stoptothink »

Exchme wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 9:33 amHe should realize that the hirer is comparing his resume to others and forgiveness for being out of the job market due to COVID only lasts so long, after which it becomes a red flag - at some point any job is better than none on the resume.
Should be interesting to see the effects of this long-term, as we have objective data (as of yesterday) that people are (for whatever reason - I have my own feelings, based upon what I see around me) simply not returning to the workforce as expected.
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Exchme »

stoptothink wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:45 am
Exchme wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 9:33 amHe should realize that the hirer is comparing his resume to others and forgiveness for being out of the job market due to COVID only lasts so long, after which it becomes a red flag - at some point any job is better than none on the resume.
Should be interesting to see the effects of this long-term, as we have objective data (as of yesterday) that people are (for whatever reason - I have my own feelings, based upon what I see around me) simply not returning to the workforce as expected.
Yep, the ones you want to hire will be the ones that did something in the downtime to add to their talent stack. Took some courses, learned a skill, learned a language, etc. I was in a hiring manager role for some time and always looked for the "tells" of someone with initiative vs. the rest.
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by JBTX »

DiggleRex wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:36 am I’ve been looking for a new job. Largely, no matter what job I apply to (and through what site), the experience is the same: I send my resume, I get an automatic response saying the company wants me to take the following assessment test(s) which will take 25 mins or whatever. These tests IMO are nonsense, often unrelated to the job, and whether I do great or terrible, does not indicate what kind of employee I’ll be—only one way to find that out. Doesn’t even necessarily test my knowledge of the subject because in real life, you have more than 60- 90 seconds to answer a question. The company doesn’t even know what questions are on the test. Through Indeed for example, which offers over 100 tests the company can choose from, for security reasons, the company cannot see the actual test questions, only a general description of the test. Ironically, they judge you on the results without knowing what was asked. In my research of this topic, many have pointed out that the person interviewing you likely wouldn’t do any better than you, and possibly much worse. But say I jump through the hoop using my valuable time to take these tests, it often leads to another automated step, such as a generic email link giving you 250 characters to say why they should hire you, or a phone number to call to be asked pre-recorded questions and not speak to a human, which may lead to another step, or radio silence.

In my experience, jumping through all these hoops rarely leads to human contact, let alone a phone call or interview. I get they’re trying to reduce their candidate pool and use automations and AI etc. but that’s not the aspect I’m interested in. There are concepts called “candidate abuse” (largely referring to abusing the candidate's time), “candidate experience” and “application abandonment” (when a person gets so fed up with the barriers in the process they just bail out). I’ve spent hours on message boards reading other people’s experiences both from the candidate POV and HR POV. The overwhelming consensus seems to be along the lines of: If a company makes no attempt at human contact (a phone call at last, if not meeting) but keeps requesting you use your valuable time to jump through hoops (they literally can sit back and do nothing while you potentially rule yourself out), run away. Another person brought up the point of, if this is how they treat you during the application phase (not valuing your time, not investing their own time, and removing the human aspect), imagine what it will be like to work with them, get evaluated, ask for a raise, etc. Others have the mindset that “if a company wants me to do anything for them besides sending my resume, BEFORE speaking to me, I’m moving on."

For example, last Friday I applied to a job that based on the description, I thought was interesting. I automatically got an email asking me to take 2 tests, which I hesitantly did. Then Wed this week, I got what is clearly a copy & pasted email sent to who knows how many people, saying they are reviewing candidates and will be reaching out to qualified ones in the coming days to schedule interviews. It’s followed by multiple paragraphs about the job, and then at the end it requests: please respond with why you would be a good fit for this role outside of anything on your resume, long term personal and professional goals, hobbies etc. I’m now turned off by another hurdle I have to jump through, that I haven’t replied yet. At every step of the process, it’s like “prove you’re worthy of speaking to us” but I want to know, “Why should I work for YOU?” It’s a two-way street, or should be anyway. Part of me wants to answer something along the lines of “I’d be happy to come in and answer any questions in person, but I can’t justify continuing to do a one-sided assessment without a corresponding investment of time from the company.” Of course, a response like that almost guarantees I won’t hear back. And on the flip slide, not replying to their email is possibly another bottleneck to eliminate another round of applicants who don’t reply. Could I just do exactly what they ask for? Of course I could, but I feel like they are not valuing me or my time. They have my resume, they have my test results--they have enough to decide if they want to talk to me.

As a comparison, a couple of months ago, I applied to a job. The HR person looked at my resume, felt there was enough to warrant a convo, and set up a phone interview. After that, she offered me an in-person interview with a different person (the headquarters and the job were two different locations). I had the in-person interview. Ultimately, I wasn’t offered the job but the process was smooth with no BS: someone read my resume, used their judgement and called me, used their judgment again to offer me an in-person, and then made their decision, which I was notified of. I didn’t like the end result of not being their choice, but I can’t complain about the process/experience.

Over many years in various job searches, I have probably submitted a thousand indeed applications. Give or take. I can count on two hands the number of phone interviews that lead to and never any face to face interviews.

When I found new jobs, it was

- through networking / contacts / former coworkers
- use of recruiters (sometimes through linked in)
- higher level temp/contract services that went perm.

My take is they get so many applications via job boards your odds of standing out are really really low.

Edit: I'm one who often does things wrong in job searches, but not out of ignorance. I tend to stay with a job too long. I always wait until I'm out of work before I look for somethjng else. Big gaps between jobs. I'm not as robust of a networker as I should be. On the flip side, my spouse works and has good income so I can afford to do these things.

I think contract work is a great way to go if you have gaps in employment.
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by stoptothink »

JBTX wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:21 pm
When I found new jobs, it was

- through networking / contacts / former coworkers
- use of recruiters (sometimes through linked in)
- higher level temp/contract services that went perm.

My take is they get so many applications via job boards your odds of standing out are really really low.
I did in fact get a job through Indeed, but that was 8yrs ago when I was moving halfway across the country to a place where I had little to no contacts. I have applied for hundreds of jobs on Indeed, that was my one and only interview through that process, and I was very overqualified for the position and undersold myself out of impatience (didn't want to be in a new place where I knew nobody without a job). Going through conventional channels, you are competing with A LOT of people, some of whom may be filling out dozens of applications a day and for jobs that aren't a fit.
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by clip651 »

DiggleRex wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:25 am
I'm looking at various things: manufacturing, office work (data entry, inventory, etc), computer work. The other point I didn't bring up in my original post is that often, you go through (if you choose to) all this effort, and the job listing is offering awful pay. So it's not like you can even say to yourself "well this is potentially worth it because they're offering a good salary."
I haven't read all the replies. But with the type of work you're looking for, have you tried a temp agency? They can talk to you (and perhaps do some testing), get an idea of your skills and abilities and let you know if they have any suitable positions, or are likely to. Sometimes temp positions turn into permanent offers. And as a temp, you get inside a company, get to see if you like it, get to meet some supervisors, etc, all without making a long term commitment to the job. And if you can get temp jobs in the area you want to work, it may help build your resume in the direction you're trying to head.

Just an idea. If it works out, interviewing with one or more agencies might give you access to a variety of positions over time, without additional interviewing.

cj
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by winterfan »

This has been an interesting thread to read. I'm not currently working, but I may try to go back PT this fall. The last job I had, I applied for the job via recruiter, met with the hiring manager the next day and was hired that afternoon. It was really easy. This was about 10 years ago though. I do agree with the temp suggestion. My husband works in manufacturing and they often hire via temp agency. I'm kind of surprised at the hoops they make you go through though. He has said, as well as others in manufacturing, that it is difficult to find people. They often have positions open for a while. Maybe it's the area we are in.
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Jablean »

bogledogle wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:44 am What kind of job are you looking for? Linked-in could be a better experience if your profession has a presence there.
I'm neither a recruiter or in HR but every once in a while I peruse my LinkedIn feed to see the news. Saw a position that I looked at the description but wasn't for me. A couple of page scrolls later saw one person replying to one of my "friends" that they were looking for a job that just matched the one I had just seen. I wrote in about the one I saw and several weeks later they messaged me back that they had been hired and thank you so much as it wasn't an opening they had seen. This is just to note that networking doesn't have to mean close friends, contacts can come out of the blue.
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by JBTX »

clip651 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:36 pm
DiggleRex wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:25 am
I'm looking at various things: manufacturing, office work (data entry, inventory, etc), computer work. The other point I didn't bring up in my original post is that often, you go through (if you choose to) all this effort, and the job listing is offering awful pay. So it's not like you can even say to yourself "well this is potentially worth it because they're offering a good salary."
I haven't read all the replies. But with the type of work you're looking for, have you tried a temp agency? They can talk to you (and perhaps do some testing), get an idea of your skills and abilities and let you know if they have any suitable positions, or are likely to. Sometimes temp positions turn into permanent offers. And as a temp, you get inside a company, get to see if you like it, get to meet some supervisors, etc, all without making a long term commitment to the job. And if you can get temp jobs in the area you want to work, it may help build your resume in the direction you're trying to head.

Just an idea. If it works out, interviewing with one or more agencies might give you access to a variety of positions over time, without additional interviewing.

cj
I've been hired in two different jobs from temp positions in accounting and finance. The good thing is you are typically brought in for your skills and abilities. Not as much is placed on intangibles - is he a good "fit"? Is he too experienced? What's up with the periods of non employment? They hire you for a skill set, and once in all that other stuff doesn't matter, it's all about what value you can add. My last position started as temp, but they hired me, actually created a position for me, based upon various areas where I could add value.
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Beensabu »

DiggleRex wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:36 am I’ve been looking for a new job. Largely, no matter what job I apply to (and through what site), the experience is the same: I send my resume, I get an automatic response saying the company wants me to take the following assessment test(s) which will take 25 mins or whatever.
Take the tests if you want the job.

I just saw a "generalist" type job (really just a "you are a competent office administrator who can do any kind of office admin type job because they all require you to be good at pretty much everything" targeted to a specific skill set) posted a week ago where responses were reviewed 3 days ago and it's still up, and I was like "I can do that no problem. That looks chill. I have a specific prior role I can point to that shows I can do that no problem and am super overqualified for it. It pays more than my current job, which I've had long enough to show I stick around even though I'm overqualified." And I am vastly overqualified, because there are practically no qualifications other than experience in the specific skill set (and even then they'll train you...). That's the current job market. I was shocked. You can get another job that pays the same (and probably more) as long as you take the tests and don't have a "beware, danger!" personality.

I tried to apply to the job. Indeed prompted me to review/update my resume. I did that. Then I made sure my updates didn't screw up my resume. And I applied for real after that. I did not submit a personalized cover letter, as it was optional. Nobody reads those if they're optional. I answered 3 basic intro questions regarding relevant experience, as well as interview availability. I was told that 3 assessments were required. I took them. Two of them were ~14 questions long. They give you ~2.5-3 mins per question. I answered each with at least a minute remaining. One of them was audio responses to 3 "pre-interview" questions. You can re-record if you want to. I submitted my first recording of each. They get me, as I am, gut response, authentic, no rehearsing. The audio responses are your cover letter. They are your phone interview.

Take the tests if you want the job.
"The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty; not knowing what comes next." ~Ursula LeGuin
Topic Author
DiggleRex
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by DiggleRex »

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. I ended up finally getting an interview and offer last week. I kept all the feedback/advice in this thread in mind throughout the process. I accepted, and I start tomorrow. I hope that in the long run, it works out well.
Exchme
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Exchme »

DiggleRex wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 4:13 am Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. I ended up finally getting an interview and offer last week. I kept all the feedback/advice in this thread in mind throughout the process. I accepted, and I start tomorrow. I hope that in the long run, it works out well.
Congratulations! Now go be their best employee ever!
Normchad
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Normchad »

DiggleRex wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 4:13 am Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. I ended up finally getting an interview and offer last week. I kept all the feedback/advice in this thread in mind throughout the process. I accepted, and I start tomorrow. I hope that in the long run, it works out well.
That is terrific good news! Congratulations!
z3r0c00l
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Location: NYC

Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by z3r0c00l »

Normchad wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:32 pm We get buried in applications, and need some way to whittle the pile down. It’s easy to apply to a thousand jobs, so we need a way to quickly discard most of it.
It's too easy to just mail out resumes and such actions are never terribly successful. It is much harder to refresh your skills and network, building a set of people who trust you and can recommend you to counterparts and keep an eye out for job openings. Not only is that path going to be more successful, but it is going to show others that you are trustworthy. That's one way to get a job, the other is to apply for jobs that are in high demand such as warehouse work or truck driving. There are millions of openings and you can make decent money. One could work entry-level for a company like Amazon where move up the chain rapidly using prior qualifications. I am sure Amazon needs engineers and software people too.
70% Global Stocks / 30% Bonds
Topic Author
DiggleRex
Posts: 248
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:17 am

Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by DiggleRex »

Normchad wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 6:47 am That is terrific good news! Congratulations!
Thank you, I appreciate it!
gtd98765
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by gtd98765 »

Headhunter Nick Corcodilos (https://www.asktheheadhunter.com/) often has articles about these automated recruiting systems, which he regularly pans. He has a periodic email newsletter that is pretty entertaining, as well as several books he will sell you about how to navigate the modern job hunting system.
Assessment tests are often bogus. Job assessment tests come in many flavors. Tests and assessments can be useful tools for employers and job seekers. But more often than not, they’re misused. Some assessment methods are transparently ridiculous and unreasonable — and they’re not assessments at all. They’re bogus.
https://www.asktheheadhunter.com/11140/ ... ment-tests
Colorado14
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Location: Colorado

Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by Colorado14 »

DiggleRex wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 4:13 am Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. I ended up finally getting an interview and offer last week. I kept all the feedback/advice in this thread in mind throughout the process. I accepted, and I start tomorrow. I hope that in the long run, it works out well.
Well done! Kudos to you.
sschoe2
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by sschoe2 »

DiggleRex wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:36 am I’ve been looking for a new job. Largely, no matter what job I apply to (and through what site), the experience is the same: I send my resume, I get an automatic response saying the company wants me to take the following assessment test(s)
You mean those junk science psychometric tests where they ask you if you agree strongly agree or vice versa disagree? Yea the HR profession puts out a lot of junk science. If, as an analytical chemist, I put out assays like that I would be ridiculed and fired. I've had HR people assign me essays like it was third grade and just all manner of pseudoscience and busy work. As a result, I have not wanted to deal with hiring since I got my last job 9 years ago. It is just a total clown show. Sometimes you have to just walk away. It is tough when you are desperate but I too have found jumping through hoops like a circus poodle rarely has a happy ending.

Not to mention the ghosting. I've been ghosted after applications, in person interviews, multiple in person interviews, even interviews where the company flew me in or I drove several hours to get to them. In fact, the vast majorities of companies ghosted me. Needless to say I didn't have much sympathy when, prior to covid, companies were complaining about candidates ghosting them and not showing up to the interview or even their first day of work and going no contact.
sschoe2
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by sschoe2 »

maroon wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:18 pm Posters upthread suggested going through a temp agency for a temporary office job. I concur with this advice. The one time I used a temp agency, the office at which I was placed ended up offering me a full-time position.
I have not had good luck with temp agencies. My profession is or, at least was it seems less prevalent right now, was infested with them. Lots of companies churning and burning through temps for about $15-20/hr with no PTO nor benefits. Also the agencies themselves were sleazebags. They would lure you into their office for an interview when they had nothing for you. They'd demand manager references, who would then be subjected to sales calls from the agency, they'd ask where you have been applying (you have been looking at job ads all day finding leads for them) and they'd get sales calls from the agency. I managed to annoy several references that way. Also they did a lot of ghosting afterwards.

Also according to the WE Upjohn Institute for Employment Research: only 27% of so called temp-to-hire jobs turned permanent and 18%of temp jobs overall. Many of the companies that use them are pretty crummy places to work.
sschoe2
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Re: Frustrating candidate experiences in job search

Post by sschoe2 »

Normchad wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:32 pm I hire people

And as someone else said, if you can’t follow basic instructions, or aren’t willing to spend an hour providing the info we need, or are too principled for whatever, then it probably wouldn’t work out anyway. In that bizarre way, I suppose the BS works.
That may work for jobs with an excess of qualified candidates but hoops and busywork are also a good way to turn off currently employed or more in demand candidates. You are selecting for desperation not quality.
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