Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

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quantAndHold
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by quantAndHold »

The ideal place to live is very individual. What’s right for me might not be right for you. We all have priorities. Proximity to family and friends, activities, weather, cost of living. Every place has its good and bad points, and the important thing is to find a place where the good points are things that are important to you, and the bad things are things that don’t matter to you. For example, we don’t need the freaking big house on a lot of land, but family and friends are super important to us. So that drives a lot of our decisions. Your choices may be different.

There’s a lot of California bashing. In all types of media, not just Bogleheads, not even just social media, mostly by people who really have no idea what they’re talking about, and should probably just be ignored. But if you’re in a part of CA where real estate is expensive, you might be able to get a big win financially by moving. The cheaper place doesn’t have to be outside of CA, though. I could sell my house, move 75 miles, buy a new place, and free up close to $1m. But my life is here, I like where I am, and I don’t need that money right now. So I stay put. In the future, if I need to free up that money, it will still be there.

One thing I would say about choosing a place to live. Make a list of things that are important. Visit places you’re considering. In person, a couple of times, in both good weather times of year and bad. Go out with a realtor. Imagine yourself moving there. Ask questions about activities you care about. Think about the logistics of family visits. Run the numbers for your own situation. Then make a more informed decision. A bunch of strangers on the internet can give you ideas, but their opinions tell you more about who they are than what’s right for you.
leftcoaster
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by leftcoaster »

lucky_tech_guy wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:33 pm I'm not the poster but you can do it at Briones Regional Park in the East Bay. Lots and lots of trail entrances and miles to hike. And off-leash with your dog!
And Huckleberry, Tilden, Wildcat, redwood. The hike from Berkeley to Orinda with a stop at Volmer Peak is a must.
TheBeanCounter
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by TheBeanCounter »

DoubleComma wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:32 pm
anoop wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:00 pm My biggest concern with CA is the drought and wildfires (and consequent air quality issues). Last year was bad and this year isn't looking good given the lack of rain. The lack of rain also seems to cause bad air quality where I live (Sacramento area).
This concern is much bigger than CA. The entire West has drought and fire issues. Sacramento air quality is exacerbated because of the valley, but the same challenge exists in Boise which seems to be a direct path for lots of Californians these days.

DW and I frequently talk about leaving CA as the kids launch. We have traveled quite a bit and really have enjoyed many places we’ve visited, but living there isn’t visiting. Every time we think we found a place to go to; we start comparing to the weather, amenities and life we built here on the Central Coast and the escape we have to the Sierras.
I have always lived on the west coast, and lived in California for 4 years. Never, in anywhere else that I have lived, have we had drought, smog, or fire issues. (We have had fires in state, obviously, but not to affect the localities in which I live).
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LilyFleur
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by LilyFleur »

It's interesting that we have such virulent California bashing whereas states like Oklahoma and South Dakota emerge unscathed. A lot of it seems to be politically based and perhaps fueled by an uninformed jealousy. No place is perfect, for sure.

I see beauty in amber waves of grain as well as the shining sea.

We live in a big, beautiful country. There is a place for everyone, and it's really not necessary to put down others' choices.

I live in coastal California because I raised my children here. I'm single, and I like living near them. I could be happy in another state, though, as long as I wasn't too far from the airport, but I would miss my friends. My children's father moved to a state with no income taxes and would dearly love the children to move there, but so far they prefer California. I have decided to give each child an early inheritance and help them with significant down payments on houses when the time comes.

Some of my friends and neighbors, though, are passionate about living near the beach. I don't think they could be happy surrounded by wheat fields.
Marseille07
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by Marseille07 »

It seems a bit sensitive to call this thread California bashing. The OP was merely asking about how CA expats like their new location. It's not even about California that they were soliciting comments on.
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LilyFleur
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by LilyFleur »

Marseille07 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:42 pm It seems a bit sensitive to call this thread California bashing. The OP was merely asking about how CA expats like their new location. It's not even about California that they were soliciting comments on.
I don't think they were referring to only this thread.
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by stoptothink »

LilyFleur wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:51 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:42 pm It seems a bit sensitive to call this thread California bashing. The OP was merely asking about how CA expats like their new location. It's not even about California that they were soliciting comments on.
I don't think they were referring to only this thread.
California is both the most populous state in the country and the most polarizing, you have to accept that others may not agree with your perspective or don't participate in such threads. I recall much more extreme "bashing" of where I have chosen to live in a prior thread. The thread was not shut down (though IMO, it probably should have been because it was obvious political/religious) and I saw none of my several fellow Utah residents complain.
Ependytis
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by Ependytis »

If weather and mountains are important to you, then California is basically the only place that’s not too hot (Texas, Arizona, New Mexico), too cold ( Northeast and Midwest ), too humid or too many bugs (The south) , too flat (Midwest), or too rainy (Pacific northwest). If someone knows otherwise, please let me know.

I’ve researched a number of states and could not find a state where the weather and geography are comparable. If there are microclimates that are comparable, I’d like to know that.

As someone else said, in Cali if you bought 20 years ago your property taxes aren’t that much. If you move within the county and you’re older than 55, you can transfer your property taxes assuming the house is less than the cost of your current house.

Edit- I should’ve said the part of California that I’m referring to which is Southern California within 15 miles of the ocean.
Last edited by Ependytis on Wed May 05, 2021 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tj
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by tj »

Ependytis wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:52 pm If weather and mountains are important to you, then California is basically the only place that’s not too hot (Texas, Arizona, New Mexico), too cold ( Northeast and Midwest ), too humid or too many bugs (The south) , too flat (Midwest), or too rainy (Pacific northwest). If someone knows otherwise, please let me know.

I’ve researched a number of states and could not find a state where the weather and geography are comparable. If there are microclimates that are comparable, I’d like to know that.

As someone else said, in Cali if you bought 20 years ago your property taxes aren’t that much. If you move within the county and you’re older than 55, you can transfer your property taxes assuming the house is less than the cost of your current house.
This is all 100% correct. I didn't buy 20 years ago though, I feel like I've been priced out and it's foolish to try to restart a life here. While I did not like the Arizona heat, I know that I can live a good life there and suck it up and deal with the heat. Finacially, I would be able to retire in SoCal, pretty easily, because there are several 55+ communities that haven't gone bananas price-wise, but by that time, maybe I'll have established freindships in a different state. I don't know.

To live in CA, i would have to cut back on my retirement savings - I'd be guaranteeing to work until my mid to late 50's. That's hard for me to justify to myself, as much as I love the weather and like being closer to family.
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by CFM300 »

Ependytis wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:52 pm I’ve researched a number of states and could not find a state where the weather and geography are comparable. If there are microclimates that are comparable, I’d like to know that.
Depends on where in California, and in the other states.

Albuquerque, Reno, and Boise are all slightly cooler than Sacramento in the summer, though a good bit colder in the winter. Still, the average daily high will generally be above 40 F, except perhaps for Boise in Dec and Jan.

https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/1157 ... -and-Boise

Santa Fe is even cooler in the summer, but also in the winter.
Ependytis
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by Ependytis »

CFM300 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 4:18 pm
Ependytis wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:52 pm I’ve researched a number of states and could not find a state where the weather and geography are comparable. If there are microclimates that are comparable, I’d like to know that.
Depends on where in California, and in the other states.

Albuquerque, Reno, and Boise are all slightly cooler than Sacramento in the summer, though a good bit colder in the winter. Still, the average daily high will generally be above 40 F, except perhaps for Boise in Dec and Jan.

https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/1157 ... -and-Boise

Santa Fe is even cooler in the summer, but also in the winter.
Good point, in terms of the part of California I was referring to Southern California within 15 miles of the coast.
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by tj »

CFM300 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 4:18 pm
Ependytis wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:52 pm I’ve researched a number of states and could not find a state where the weather and geography are comparable. If there are microclimates that are comparable, I’d like to know that.
Depends on where in California, and in the other states.

Albuquerque, Reno, and Boise are all slightly cooler than Sacramento in the summer, though a good bit colder in the winter. Still, the average daily high will generally be above 40 F, except perhaps for Boise in Dec and Jan.

https://weatherspark.com/compare/y/1157 ... -and-Boise

Santa Fe is even cooler in the summer, but also in the winter.
Flagstaff too. And maybe St George?
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LilyFleur
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by LilyFleur »

stoptothink wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:48 pm
LilyFleur wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:51 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:42 pm It seems a bit sensitive to call this thread California bashing. The OP was merely asking about how CA expats like their new location. It's not even about California that they were soliciting comments on.
I don't think they were referring to only this thread.
California is both the most populous state in the country and the most polarizing, you have to accept that others may not agree with your perspective or don't participate in such threads. I recall much more extreme "bashing" of where I have chosen to live in a prior thread. The thread was not shut down (though IMO, it probably should have been because it was obvious political/religious) and I saw none of my several fellow Utah residents complain.
There are good people in Utah!
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by CFM300 »

tj wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 4:35 pm Flagstaff too. And maybe St George?
Flagstaff gets too much snow, and St. George is almost as hot as Tucson in the summer. Maybe Presccot and Cedar City?
Ependytis wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 4:26 pm Good point, in terms of the part of California I was referring to Southern California within 15 miles of the coast.
Poway probably has the "worst" weather for a SoCal spot within 15 miles of the coast. And yet none of the places we've listed are as temperate. You win. :beer
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by phxjcc »

BogleFan510 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:57 pm
ProsperGoalzz wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:04 pm I love California! The weather is fantastic and we live near both mountains and ocean. But alas, I'm not sure that we will stay in retirement due to tax un-friendliness and HCOL. Our $1m 1500 sq. ft. home could buy us a nicer home with plenty leftover, I reckon. We want to live somewhere without harsh winters and that is also beautiful- trees, water, maybe even mountains, etc.

If you moved from here, do you love where you ended up? Would you move again? I seem to hear only about people who regretted leaving but the sample size is small! Also anyone who moved to an entirely new place- never looked back or regrets?

Once we feel safe traveling again, we will begin visiting other states, starting with North Carolina and maybe Tennessee. Who knows when that will be though, and I'd like to start daydreaming, researching or thinking otherwise between now and then. Thank you in advance!
I just did my retired MIL's taxes. Her property tax on a million dollar home was under 2500 and her state taxes zero, with a $1M plus portfolio. Be sure you are accurate when you claim California is tax unfriendly. It depends on your circumstances.

PS Today I hiked 8 miles in perfect weather on miles of trailes 5 min from home, with no development within visual range. To each their own value proposition, but I wish these California bashing threads would die. Many post in them with wild statements and no experience filing taxes or paying property taxes in the state.
I agree.
however, I have been called a liar--and worse--and haven chosen not to respond.

Your point is well taken, and is what I have advised others to do.
Spend the $50 for tax software and run the numbers for yourself.

My break even, just on the transaction cost side is 100+ years.

Politics, ok.
Relatives, ok.
Different house, a/o lifestyle, ok.
But, financially beneficial?
Not, necessarily.

I guess it is an advantage to be poor; by BH standards, that is.
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by brokendirtdart »

BernardShakey wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:23 pm
I know four families that have left California in the last six years (two to Texas, one up to northern New Hampshire, and one moved to Colorado. Since then, three of the four have returned. Only the one in Colorado stayed. One of the ones to Texas came back for business reasons, another for the weather / politics, and the one from New Hampshire returned due to the harsh weather.
This makes me even more excited that I bought land in northern New Hampshire. :happy
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beyou
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by beyou »

You get what you pay for, there are good reasons the homes are $1M and more.

I live in NYC area, and have no plans to retire away from there, despite the cost. I love CA too and would gladly move there. Many of my career opportunities in recent years is to move to LCOL/MCOL areas with firms leaving/expanding beyond HCOL areas like NY/CA. Refused interviews no matter the title or money. Great weather, beaches and culture is important to me.
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by sschullo »

surfstar wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:11 pm
formerlybroke wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 3:01 pm
BogleFan510 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:57 pm
ProsperGoalzz wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:04 pm I love California! The weather is fantastic and we live near both mountains and ocean. But alas, I'm not sure that we will stay in retirement due to tax un-friendliness and HCOL. Our $1m 1500 sq. ft. home could buy us a nicer home with plenty leftover, I reckon. We want to live somewhere without harsh winters and that is also beautiful- trees, water, maybe even mountains, etc.

If you moved from here, do you love where you ended up? Would you move again? I seem to hear only about people who regretted leaving but the sample size is small! Also anyone who moved to an entirely new place- never looked back or regrets?

Once we feel safe traveling again, we will begin visiting other states, starting with North Carolina and maybe Tennessee. Who knows when that will be though, and I'd like to start daydreaming, researching or thinking otherwise between now and then. Thank you in advance!
I just did my retired MIL's taxes. Her property tax on a million dollar home was under 2500 and her state taxes zero, with a $1M plus portfolio. Be sure you are accurate when you claim California is tax unfriendly. It depends on your circumstances.

PS Today I hiked 8 miles in perfect weather on miles of trailes 5 min from home, with no development within visual range. To each their own value proposition, but I wish these California bashing threads would die. Many post in them with wild statements and no experience filing taxes or paying property taxes in the state.
+1
No! I want more people to leave CA! Too crowded still :)
Yeah, me too. Please leave!!!!
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by 4runner818 »

Ependytis wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:52 pm If weather and mountains are important to you, then California is basically the only place that’s not too hot (Texas, Arizona, New Mexico), too cold ( Northeast and Midwest ), too humid or too many bugs (The south) , too flat (Midwest), or too rainy (Pacific northwest). If someone knows otherwise, please let me know.

I’ve researched a number of states and could not find a state where the weather and geography are comparable. If there are microclimates that are comparable, I’d like to know that.

As someone else said, in Cali if you bought 20 years ago your property taxes aren’t that much. If you move within the county and you’re older than 55, you can transfer your property taxes assuming the house is less than the cost of your current house.

Edit- I should’ve said the part of California that I’m referring to which is Southern California within 15 miles of the ocean.
I would note that with the recent passage of prop 19, staying within the same county is no longer a requirement. If you are over 55, you can move anywhere within the state and take your old property tax assessment with you, up to $1 million.
eigenperson
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by eigenperson »

CA (Bay Area) to NC (Triangle).

Pros:

* Lower population density... though it seems like every attempt is being made to change this for the worse. (Of course the same process is happening in California too.) At least for now, the traffic is tolerable and you can get into restaurants without a reservation.
* We can afford a house, and people around us can too.
* It rains here.

Cons:

* It's unpleasantly humid in summer, which is also the season when the outdoors is most attractive, so it's a lot harder to enjoy the outdoors.
* Lack of variety in landscape.
* There is nowhere to really get away from people. The "backwoods" areas are all far more densely populated than comparable CA locales.
* If I lose my job, there would be far fewer local options to choose from and I'd probably be looking at a pay cut of 50% or more.
* The produce you get in the stores, and even the farmer's market, is not nearly as good.
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by mnnice »

LilyFleur wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:40 pm It's interesting that we have such virulent California bashing whereas states like Oklahoma and South Dakota emerge unscathed. A lot of it seems to be politically based and perhaps fueled by an uninformed jealousy. No place is perfect, for sure.

I see beauty in amber waves of grain as well as the shining sea.

We live in a big, beautiful country. There is a place for everyone, and it's really not necessary to put down others' choices.

I live in coastal California because I raised my children here. I'm single, and I like living near them. I could be happy in another state, though, as long as I wasn't too far from the airport, but I would miss my friends. My children's father moved to a state with no income taxes and would dearly love the children to move there, but so far they prefer California. I have decided to give each child an early inheritance and help them with significant down payments on houses when the time comes.

Some of my friends and neighbors, though, are passionate about living near the beach. I don't think they could be happy surrounded by wheat fields.
If you would like me to complain about South Dakota it could be arranged. Not a fan of the weather, politics. I have actually lived there unlike California.

That being said there is a pretty good chance I might be a resident again at some point. But that would only work because I am willing and able to spend winter elsewhere.
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ProsperGoalzz
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by ProsperGoalzz »

celia wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 5:46 pm After customizing the house and property to how you like it, why would you want to move and start all over?
[ quote fixed by admin LadyGeek]

This is one of the hardest things about making this choice. We have built and are continuing to improve a beautiful, mostly native garden. The answer is, to have a larger, nicer home plus a couple/several hundred thousand in the bank that is currently tied up in the house. I'm still not sure whether we have "enough" to fund the lifestyle we want- maybe, and that's another planned post. To my mind though, I'm pretty certain having even more- to give/share with family, increase travel or travel class, help him retire earlier, allay any concerns with "running out"- is better.
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by ProsperGoalzz »

quantAndHold wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:57 am
Make a list of things that are important. Visit places you’re considering. In person, a couple of times, in both good weather times of year and bad. Go out with a realtor. Imagine yourself moving there. Ask questions about activities you care about. Think about the logistics of family visits. Run the numbers for your own situation. Then make a more informed decision. A bunch of strangers on the internet can give you ideas, but their opinions tell you more about who they are than what’s right for you.
Great reply thanks. I've been doing this mentally but am going to write them down and start comparing. I mentioned weather and natural beauty (mtns, ocean) but also focus on environment-native plants, clean water, not poisoning the earth, recycling programs....

Also your reply further solidified a question I am asking myself, and that is, do I really have enough anyway and would I still feel a lack of wealth no matter where we live? Walking away with 3-500k extra from the sale of our house is not chump change. It could make a huge lifestyle difference. Or not, if internally I'm not reconciled with moving from being a saver to a spender.
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by surfstar »

ProsperGoalzz wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:46 am
quantAndHold wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 9:57 am
Make a list of things that are important. Visit places you’re considering. In person, a couple of times, in both good weather times of year and bad. Go out with a realtor. Imagine yourself moving there. Ask questions about activities you care about. Think about the logistics of family visits. Run the numbers for your own situation. Then make a more informed decision. A bunch of strangers on the internet can give you ideas, but their opinions tell you more about who they are than what’s right for you.
Great reply thanks. I've been doing this mentally but am going to write them down and start comparing. I mentioned weather and natural beauty (mtns, ocean) but also focus on environment-native plants, clean water, not poisoning the earth, recycling programs....

Also your reply further solidified a question I am asking myself, and that is, do I really have enough anyway and would I still feel a lack of wealth no matter where we live? Walking away with 3-500k extra from the sale of our house is not chump change. It could make a huge lifestyle difference. Or not, if internally I'm not reconciled with moving from being a saver to a spender.
If you do not have heirs and/or do not wish to leave an estate, you can look into a HECM (Home Equity Conversion Mortgage) - aka Reverse Mortgage.
It might allow you to stay in your current home and have increased spending/security in the future. If a major consideration for leaving CA is the home equity you'd like to access, this can present a valid option to some.
Just another data point to consider.
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by LadyGeek »

I removed a post and reply discussing racial stereotypes. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters.
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

Post by wander »

Watty wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:53 pm I left the south Bay Area in the 1980's so that was a long time ago.

I really hated the south Bay Area with all the crowding, traffic congestion and urban sprawl, but maybe you live in a nicer part of California.

While the weather may be nicer many of the urban and suburban areas of California are not all that much different than similar parts of most other cities.

Being within driving distance of the mountains and beach was nice but even back then driving over to the beach on a Saturday morning or up to the mountains on Friday evening was a challenge. Realistically though when I was living there I probably only went over to mountains or beaches maybe two dozen times a year if that. It may have been closer to a dozen times a year.

Try to figure out how many times a year you actually went to the mountains or beach before the pandemic. It might not have been all that often.

I have been back a number of times after I left and each time I was there I was still glad that I left. It was not like I was living in a funky San Francisco neighborhood or within walking distance of the beach.

Leaving the Bay Area to move to a less expensive area was one of the best decisions that I ever made.

I have moved around a couple of times but one huge advantage of living in a less expensive area is that my son was able to easily afford to buy a house that is about ten minutes from us so we frequently get to see our grandkids. Virtually all of my son's high school and college classmates were able to afford to buy nice homes when they were in their 20s.
ProsperGoalzz wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 11:04 pm Our $1m 1500 sq. ft. home could buy us a nicer home with plenty leftover, I reckon.
One way to look at the tradeoff is in the terms of the opportunity cost and not the dollar amount. For example if you moved someplace where you can buy a nice house for $300K then think about how would the freed up home equity change your life. For example with an extra $700k in the bank and a paid off house you might be able to retire ten years earlier. Maybe you would do something else with the extra $700K but try to figure out just just what the tradeoff is instead of thinking about it in dollar terms.
Exactly. I used to live there and there are many freeways that a normal 20-minutes trip becomes 2+ hours one at certain hours of any weekday (no car accident). So, I moved out to do them a favor. :D
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Re: Ca Expats- do you love your new home?

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