My problem is I want the view to change. A pretty view tends to get old after a while. First world problems I know.
How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Minor correction but Alitalia does not have first class, they only go as high as business class which is clearly still a very nice way to travel but is still quite a bit cheaper (most of the time) than a "real" international first class product. I may be missing one but the only first class products left transatlantic that I can recall outside of some fifth freedom flights with Mid-East carriers are on British Airways, AA, Air France, Lufthansa.Sweetbriar wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 3:29 pmWe book our flights as early as possible, on Alitalia, direct from LAX! Cheaper with better beds, better food & wine than Amercian airline companies! We lease a car through Autoeurope or Kemwell, available if you rent for over 21 days. Automatic and no deductible included as well. Have never stayed in chain hotels, ie: Marriott.etc. No tour or package type deals...not our style and no points, which will be almost impossible, especially this year!
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
All I care about is lie-down flat seats.THY4373 wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 1:20 pmMinor correction but Alitalia does not have first class, they only go as high as business class which is clearly still a very nice way to travel but is still quite a bit cheaper (most of the time) than a "real" international first class product. I may be missing one but the only first class products left transatlantic that I can recall outside of some fifth freedom flights with Mid-East carriers are on British Airways, AA, Air France, Lufthansa.Sweetbriar wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 3:29 pmWe book our flights as early as possible, on Alitalia, direct from LAX! Cheaper with better beds, better food & wine than Amercian airline companies! We lease a car through Autoeurope or Kemwell, available if you rent for over 21 days. Automatic and no deductible included as well. Have never stayed in chain hotels, ie: Marriott.etc. No tour or package type deals...not our style and no points, which will be almost impossible, especially this year!
And business class has that, right?
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Yes generally that can be assumed for international business class long haul from the big carriers. Icelandair is an exception and LaCopagnie was as well but they may have upgraded. Short and mid-haul business class may not have lie flat. Also there is a fair amount of variation in business class hard products. British Airways has some truly horrible lie flat seats (their middle seats would have you potentially sleeping next to a stranger with no barrier and you have a good possibility of getting this if you aren't a OneWorld elite or don't pay their seat selection fee (yes you have to do this in business class) that is often $200 one way). If you watch prices and are willing to consider second tier airlines like TAP Portugal you can frequently find $2k business class tickets to Europe and I have flown $700 business class tickets that were legit sales not fare mistakes,
The old saying on FT is Business Class is all about the "hard product" (the seat) and (international) First Class is all about the soft product (service). I have flown both and the incremental difference is pretty low for the most part but first class is fun when on points. Managed to knock out a shower in a plane on an Etihad A380 in Apartments (where you have both a separate bed and a chair). That is gone now post-COVID so glad I got to do it when I did. Along with flying in nose in first class on a 747 (another thing that is nearly gone).
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Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Most, but not all, long-haul business class has lie-flat seats. There are definitely some exceptions. SeatGuru is your friend on that. There is actually a surprising amount of variation among airlines in business class. Some "lie flat" are not really fully flat. Some seats are pretty awkward to get in/out of if your neighbor has their seat fully down (British Airways, for one).
I found that even with a quite nice BC seat on Lufthansa, I *still* wasn't able to get more that 30-minute catnaps on an 11 hour overnight flight a couple of years ago. My wife did sleep pretty well though.
Flying out of SFO, I find that BC on the nonstop flights to europe are pretty expensive. If I'm willing to make a stop, fares can be quite a bit better, but there's a tradeoff in extra time and hassle.
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Air France's first class product is many people's favorite of the US/Europe airlines.
I'd avoid BA's business class, even if not in the center. They are rolling out a new version that is supposed to be better than the old.
I'd avoid BA's business class, even if not in the center. They are rolling out a new version that is supposed to be better than the old.
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Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
I wouldn’t put mainland China and Egypt in the same group, at least post Egypt Crisis of 2011-2014? China is a very safe country (traffic accidents notwithstanding), although there is a risk of “arbitrarily enforced laws” as it has a history of detaining people, but foreigners/tourists are left alone. Detaining innocent tourists is not good for your public image. Egypt is under terrorism warnings according to the state department and I wouldn’t feel safe traveling there. And I really want to see the pyramids someday.Naismith wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 9:23 amI really don't understand this snobbery. We are overwhelmingly independent travelers--we've lived in Indonesia, Brasil and Germany--but I can understand a variety of reasons why someone would opt for a tour rather than going alone.radiowave wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 6:13 pmif you mean buy a local tour when you get to where you're going, yeah agree with that. We did an Italy trip a few years ago that we did our own arrangements..... I can only imagine what an all expense paid Tuscan wine tour would be coming from the US.jebmke wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 5:55 pmActually, there is quite a bit in between. It isn't that black and white.radiowave wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 5:53 pm A tourist just purchases a tour and everything is done for them. A traveler basically does everything on their own, uses local transit, local homes/B&Bs, local restaurants, and enjoys the beauty of each place and people on its own merit and not from a tour bus window following the mass of other tourists.
I would not travel to mainland China or Egypt outside a tour (either a business group or a leisure tour). There are just so many risks.
Some tours have deals to get into an attraction at special times or a better rate. When we were cruising to Costa Rica, a tour offered by the cruiseline was actually cheaper than trying to replicate the experience myself, as well as the guarantee of not missing the ship.
Some tours have the best guides and content experts. Their lectures and commentary add greatly to the experience, and only lesser quality is available outside the tours.
Also, if I get to the point where I can't schlep my own luggage, I will consider tours if that allows me to keep seeing the world.
But to the original question, we only budgeted $12,000 a year based on our typical spending. That has been one 2-week international trip, one domestic adventure, and lots of brief jaunts. But not sure how the spiraling car rental rates and flights will affect this year.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Some ocean views or mountain views never get old and can be very dynamic. No sunset or sunrise ever looks quite the same.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
We didn't budget much for travel specifically. Most of our travel costs come out of flex budget. In a really good year, we may spend $50,000 on travel. In lean years, travel might be a lot wilderness camping trips that add almost no delta to our cost of living.
Our budget is primarily focused on non-discretionary expenses so we know what our baseline costs are. Above that, it's all flexible based on how our investments are performing and what we feel like doing with the money. Some years we might want to take a bunch of expensive trips. In other years, we might want to make a big donation, buy new toys, or do something else. Having a semi-fixed "budget" for travel seems like an unnecessary constraint on your spending.
Our budget is primarily focused on non-discretionary expenses so we know what our baseline costs are. Above that, it's all flexible based on how our investments are performing and what we feel like doing with the money. Some years we might want to take a bunch of expensive trips. In other years, we might want to make a big donation, buy new toys, or do something else. Having a semi-fixed "budget" for travel seems like an unnecessary constraint on your spending.
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Yes but that average is 1 persons spending 100k and the other 9 spending 1k. Averages are very deceptive when the upper limit can be very high. The median retiree family income is 45k. I doubt many are spending 10-20k on travel....millervt wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 12:19 pm for what it is worth: "The average retiree spends $11,077 per year on travel."
i budgeted $25K, out of $100K per year total. I prefer round annual numbers rather than round monthly numbers.
that doesn't include several thousand a year from credit card points.
Hopefully by the time you retiree you have a good idea of who you are and can tell if it is going to cost you 3k for a week trip to europe or 10k. Nobody here can tell if you like expensive hotels or just view them as a place to sleep, need 200/plate meals or are happy with 20 bucks at the local dinner, fly in 500 dollar seats or 3k,.... Same thing about if you are person who wants 1 big 10 trip or if you are looking to spend 60 days of the year on the road.
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Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
I get the whole “different strokes for different folks” thing but I’ve never understood why people of limited means tend to throw away all of their thriftiness skills or values when it concerns vacations. It’s like you’re not having fun if you’re not wasting tons of money on your vacation.
With a little bit of effort it’s fairly easy to have a quality vacation experience at any given level of comfort without throwing away tons of money in the process.
With a little bit of effort it’s fairly easy to have a quality vacation experience at any given level of comfort without throwing away tons of money in the process.
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Not if you're tall enough.HomerJ wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 1:23 pmAll I care about is lie-down flat seats.THY4373 wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 1:20 pmMinor correction but Alitalia does not have first class, they only go as high as business class which is clearly still a very nice way to travel but is still quite a bit cheaper (most of the time) than a "real" international first class product. I may be missing one but the only first class products left transatlantic that I can recall outside of some fifth freedom flights with Mid-East carriers are on British Airways, AA, Air France, Lufthansa.Sweetbriar wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 3:29 pmWe book our flights as early as possible, on Alitalia, direct from LAX! Cheaper with better beds, better food & wine than Amercian airline companies! We lease a car through Autoeurope or Kemwell, available if you rent for over 21 days. Automatic and no deductible included as well. Have never stayed in chain hotels, ie: Marriott.etc. No tour or package type deals...not our style and no points, which will be almost impossible, especially this year!
And business class has that, right?
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
I believe La Compagnie did upgrade with their new aircraft, at least on the Paris line. I would take the flights if we were NVC based.THY4373 wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 2:25 pmYes generally that can be assumed for international business class long haul from the big carriers. Icelandair is an exception and LaCopagnie was as well but they may have upgraded. Short and mid-haul business class may not have lie flat. Also there is a fair amount of variation in business class hard products. British Airways has some truly horrible lie flat seats (their middle seats would have you potentially sleeping next to a stranger with no barrier and you have a good possibility of getting this if you aren't a OneWorld elite or don't pay their seat selection fee (yes you have to do this in business class) that is often $200 one way). If you watch prices and are willing to consider second tier airlines like TAP Portugal you can frequently find $2k business class tickets to Europe and I have flown $700 business class tickets that were legit sales not fare mistakes,
The old saying on FT is Business Class is all about the "hard product" (the seat) and (international) First Class is all about the soft product (service). I have flown both and the incremental difference is pretty low for the most part but first class is fun when on points. Managed to knock out a shower in a plane on an Etihad A380 in Apartments (where you have both a separate bed and a chair). That is gone now post-COVID so glad I got to do it when I did. Along with flying in nose in first class on a 747 (another thing that is nearly gone).
I remember fondly the upper deck 747 on SIngapore Air -- it is wonderful experience to be in your own mini-cabin. I've done some long haul first class as well, and it always struck me as diminishing returns unless you actually had the minicabins (which I never had). We just booked some Polaris tickets to Europe for later in the year -- the biz class fare was only a little more than Premium Economy due to the decline in business traffic.
(I'm too lazy to quote the various threads... )
I've had the chance to stay in some pretty nice suites and hotels -- including ones with separate dining rooms and dedicated butler. We like the space and the beautiful views/great locations, but for me, some things like that just make me uncomfortable. I dislike having to feel like I have to dress up to just cross a lobby or having that level of service on a constant basis.
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Based on reports I’ve had from people who’ve traveled there, the air pollution in China is horrible. I’m not sure if that is true just near cities, or extends to more rural areas alsofinite_difference wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 5:39 pmI wouldn’t put mainland China and Egypt in the same group, at least post Egypt Crisis of 2011-2014? China is a very safe country (traffic accidents notwithstanding), although there is a risk of “arbitrarily enforced laws” as it has a history of detaining people, but foreigners/tourists are left alone. Detaining innocent tourists is not good for your public image. Egypt is under terrorism warnings according to the state department and I wouldn’t feel safe traveling there. And I really want to see the pyramids someday.Naismith wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 9:23 amI really don't understand this snobbery. We are overwhelmingly independent travelers--we've lived in Indonesia, Brasil and Germany--but I can understand a variety of reasons why someone would opt for a tour rather than going alone.radiowave wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 6:13 pmif you mean buy a local tour when you get to where you're going, yeah agree with that. We did an Italy trip a few years ago that we did our own arrangements..... I can only imagine what an all expense paid Tuscan wine tour would be coming from the US.jebmke wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 5:55 pmActually, there is quite a bit in between. It isn't that black and white.radiowave wrote: ↑Sat May 01, 2021 5:53 pm A tourist just purchases a tour and everything is done for them. A traveler basically does everything on their own, uses local transit, local homes/B&Bs, local restaurants, and enjoys the beauty of each place and people on its own merit and not from a tour bus window following the mass of other tourists.
I would not travel to mainland China or Egypt outside a tour (either a business group or a leisure tour). There are just so many risks.
Some tours have deals to get into an attraction at special times or a better rate. When we were cruising to Costa Rica, a tour offered by the cruiseline was actually cheaper than trying to replicate the experience myself, as well as the guarantee of not missing the ship.
Some tours have the best guides and content experts. Their lectures and commentary add greatly to the experience, and only lesser quality is available outside the tours.
Also, if I get to the point where I can't schlep my own luggage, I will consider tours if that allows me to keep seeing the world.
But to the original question, we only budgeted $12,000 a year based on our typical spending. That has been one 2-week international trip, one domestic adventure, and lots of brief jaunts. But not sure how the spiraling car rental rates and flights will affect this year.
At any rate, with a husband who has asthma, I won’t be going unless it’s without him.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
But air pollution isn't going to vary much depending whether or to what degree you 'book a tour' v 'being a traveler'. Or maybe the two things interact a little because pollution (of the kind that would immediately affect you like breathing trouble) is usually worse in cities but traveling on your own in rural areas is usually more difficult in a given country.delamer wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:44 amBased on reports I’ve had from people who’ve traveled there, the air pollution in China is horrible. I’m not sure if that is true just near cities, or extends to more rural areas alsofinite_difference wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 5:39 pmI wouldn’t put mainland China and Egypt in the same group, at least post Egypt Crisis of 2011-2014? China is a very safe country (traffic accidents notwithstanding), although there is a risk of “arbitrarily enforced laws” as it has a history of detaining people, but foreigners/tourists are left alone. Detaining innocent tourists is not good for your public image. Egypt is under terrorism warnings according to the state department and I wouldn’t feel safe traveling there. And I really want to see the pyramids someday.Naismith wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 9:23 amI really don't understand this snobbery. We are overwhelmingly independent travelers--we've lived in Indonesia, Brasil and Germany--but I can understand a variety of reasons why someone would opt for a tour rather than going alone.
I would not travel to mainland China or Egypt outside a tour (either a business group or a leisure tour). There are just so many risks.
...
But to the original question, we only budgeted $12,000 a year based on our typical spending. That has been one 2-week international trip, one domestic adventure, and lots of brief jaunts. But not sure how the spiraling car rental rates and flights will affect this year.
But like Naismith we've lived overseas, both in wife's original country and another country neither of us is from, and the anti 'tourist' thing also strikes me as a bit of having something to prove about one's 'cosmopolitan-ness' that we don't feel we need to prove. We've done various combinations and degrees from total 'on our own', to some day tours, to total package tours (sometimes trips with sisters in law with tour guides speaking their language). Also personally I don't feel comfortable having to rely on local people speaking English and it's not solved, to me, by learning a token phrase or two. I like roaming totally on our own much more where I speak at least some of the language, which adds up to a fair number of countries but far from most. And we're also not *huge* world travelers in general, no 'bucket list' to have seen the whole world. We have not gone to China, might at some point, probably mainly guided/package if so. Roaming would be more feasible if/when I learn some spoken Mandarin (I read Chinese in traditional characters based on character meanings I know from Sino-Korean words and practice, since the grammar is entirely different from Korean, but my familiarity with simplified characters is less and spoken ability near zero as of now). Or perhaps we could do some limited roaming in the part of China near North Korea where many people speak Korean. Our tolerance for shortcomings in personal safety in terms of crime/terrorism is very low though: Egypt is out of the question. I'm happy to read about many places in the world without going to them.
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Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Wife and I are 59/60, retiring in the next 6-9 months. We budgeted $30K/year in 2021 dollars.
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
I just was making the point that one risk with travel in China is the pollution problem, regardless of any other issues (or non-issues).JackoC wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 10:19 amBut air pollution isn't going to vary much depending whether or to what degree you 'book a tour' v 'being a traveler'. Or maybe the two things interact a little because pollution (of the kind that would immediately affect you like breathing trouble) is usually worse in cities but traveling on your own in rural areas is usually more difficult in a given country.delamer wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:44 amBased on reports I’ve had from people who’ve traveled there, the air pollution in China is horrible. I’m not sure if that is true just near cities, or extends to more rural areas alsofinite_difference wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 5:39 pmI wouldn’t put mainland China and Egypt in the same group, at least post Egypt Crisis of 2011-2014? China is a very safe country (traffic accidents notwithstanding), although there is a risk of “arbitrarily enforced laws” as it has a history of detaining people, but foreigners/tourists are left alone. Detaining innocent tourists is not good for your public image. Egypt is under terrorism warnings according to the state department and I wouldn’t feel safe traveling there. And I really want to see the pyramids someday.Naismith wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 9:23 amI really don't understand this snobbery. We are overwhelmingly independent travelers--we've lived in Indonesia, Brasil and Germany--but I can understand a variety of reasons why someone would opt for a tour rather than going alone.
I would not travel to mainland China or Egypt outside a tour (either a business group or a leisure tour). There are just so many risks.
...
But to the original question, we only budgeted $12,000 a year based on our typical spending. That has been one 2-week international trip, one domestic adventure, and lots of brief jaunts. But not sure how the spiraling car rental rates and flights will affect this year.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
If you are in a sensitive group, it can be a problem. Most visits are short and the risk is low. Air quality does vary by city or region, and by weather. For example, Shanghai has generally better air quality, and Hong Kong is even better. It can actually be good at times. Beijing gets periods in the winter where an inversion layer traps pollutants and it is terrible. (And when there are sandstorms from the Gobi, yikes, that are horrible). I've been to China about a half a dozen times, but with only short ventures to the countryside. It is a great travel experience, even as an independent traveler.
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
We keep 10k on hand for travel and replenish as needed. It hasn't been needed since March 2020.
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Interesting so see how people prioritize travel in retirement. Some spend a lot others spend very little. Some like first class air, others back pack. Totally personal.
But travel, being almost totally discretionary is very easy to plan for (ok Covid has created a current issue). Once you decide where you want to go, and how you like to travel, how often and for how long, it’s very easy to create an accurate plan. Hopefully this plan is acceptable to you financially. If not, back to the drawing board. No amount of asking others (strangers no less) how much they spend is really going to help you much.
But travel, being almost totally discretionary is very easy to plan for (ok Covid has created a current issue). Once you decide where you want to go, and how you like to travel, how often and for how long, it’s very easy to create an accurate plan. Hopefully this plan is acceptable to you financially. If not, back to the drawing board. No amount of asking others (strangers no less) how much they spend is really going to help you much.
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Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
I agree that the air pollution in China is terrible. You can’t visit in winter. In summer stick to breezy coastal cities like Shanghai.delamer wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 12:54 pmI just was making the point that one risk with travel in China is the pollution problem, regardless of any other issues (or non-issues).JackoC wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 10:19 amBut air pollution isn't going to vary much depending whether or to what degree you 'book a tour' v 'being a traveler'. Or maybe the two things interact a little because pollution (of the kind that would immediately affect you like breathing trouble) is usually worse in cities but traveling on your own in rural areas is usually more difficult in a given country.delamer wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 8:44 amBased on reports I’ve had from people who’ve traveled there, the air pollution in China is horrible. I’m not sure if that is true just near cities, or extends to more rural areas alsofinite_difference wrote: ↑Tue May 04, 2021 5:39 pmI wouldn’t put mainland China and Egypt in the same group, at least post Egypt Crisis of 2011-2014? China is a very safe country (traffic accidents notwithstanding), although there is a risk of “arbitrarily enforced laws” as it has a history of detaining people, but foreigners/tourists are left alone. Detaining innocent tourists is not good for your public image. Egypt is under terrorism warnings according to the state department and I wouldn’t feel safe traveling there. And I really want to see the pyramids someday.Naismith wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 9:23 am
I really don't understand this snobbery. We are overwhelmingly independent travelers--we've lived in Indonesia, Brasil and Germany--but I can understand a variety of reasons why someone would opt for a tour rather than going alone.
I would not travel to mainland China or Egypt outside a tour (either a business group or a leisure tour). There are just so many risks.
...
But to the original question, we only budgeted $12,000 a year based on our typical spending. That has been one 2-week international trip, one domestic adventure, and lots of brief jaunts. But not sure how the spiraling car rental rates and flights will affect this year.
Air quality is also pretty bad in some European cities thanks to diesel.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
Great thread. I'm guessing we'll spend on a sliding scale. Go big first few years (30-50k a year, we've spent that on 4 people per year regularly) and then taper off. ($20k a year) after age 70?
So if I retire at 50 I'll need approx 800k for travel thru 70. Lol. Where are those frontier funds again? Lmao.
Who knows, I guess this is the benefit of getting to 40/50x expected expenses. At that point you have plenty of fudge factor to blow your annual budget.
So if I retire at 50 I'll need approx 800k for travel thru 70. Lol. Where are those frontier funds again? Lmao.
Who knows, I guess this is the benefit of getting to 40/50x expected expenses. At that point you have plenty of fudge factor to blow your annual budget.
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ |
“How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
Re: How Much Did You Budget for Travel in Retirement?
retired at 58, now 65, we budgeted $50k per year. in ten years i’ll be 75 and may not want to travel as much so we’re front loading our budget. but now we have a dog so not sure what that means in terms of travel...