Need Cash for Divorce Payout

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Zeppcoustic
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by Zeppcoustic »

Hang in there man. And a bababooey to you.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by ResearchMed »

whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:02 pm
delamer wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:53 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:13 pm
8foot7 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:11 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:02 pm
IANAL, but I would say definitely not. If there are children involved, there are workarounds for the spendthrift spouse to get another bite of the apple, but OP did not mention children.
Any competent divorce lawyer would word the lump sum alimony agreement receipt as once and final.
Of course, child support can be assessed, re-assessed, changed generally at any time and certainly within fixed, relatively short intervals.
I don't know if my attorney is competent but at least he's expensive.
Thank you for my laugh-of-the-day! :D

Sorry that you and your daughters are going through this.
Ha, glad someone caught it. They've been through too much but it will be so much better when this is done. Thanks for the good thoughts.
I got a terriric chuckle out of your comment, too.
(Actually, I'm not sure about that word "too", as sometimes I think that delamer and I are the same person :D Many similarities, at the least!)

And I wanted to add: Don't forget, and especially remember when you get those waves of annoyance, etc., that you are doing a LOT of this for... those three beautiful little girls! That is priceless, even if you aren't charging it on VISA/MasterCard, but then... maybe you will? :wink:

By the time they are all out of college, you'll probably feel a bit better about all of this, eh?
As DH likes to say, 'This too shall pass..." (He's even had paperweights and such made to give to a few people who were going through really, *really* difficult times...)

And for when you have a moment for some amusement, here is a video:
"This Too Shall Pass - Rube Goldberg Machine"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qybUFnY7Y8w

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

Gnirk wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:13 pm Just curious, OP, but did she become a stay-at-home mom of your three girls?
Not really. She opened a business and has run that for the past 11 years. It's more of a hobby though as it doesn't make much money. Kids have been in day care mostly.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

Zeppcoustic wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:28 pm Hang in there man. And a bababooey to you.
My married life is at like a 2 but my single life will be at a noine :beer
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LilyFleur
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by LilyFleur »

whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:32 pm
Gnirk wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:13 pm Just curious, OP, but did she become a stay-at-home mom of your three girls?
Not really. She opened a business and has run that for the past 11 years. It's more of a hobby though as it doesn't make much money. Kids have been in day care mostly.
oh, my. I am not sure, for her, that a lump sum for alimony would be advantageous. She has basically been out of the workforce, housing is expensive. She may be able to survive while receiving child support for three children.

The reason you should care is that this will effect her ability to care for the children when she has them.

And, I am glad you are trying to keep the house. That continuity is important for the children.
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LilyFleur
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by LilyFleur »

whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:32 pm
Gnirk wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:13 pm Just curious, OP, but did she become a stay-at-home mom of your three girls?
Not really. She opened a business and has run that for the past 11 years. It's more of a hobby though as it doesn't make much money. Kids have been in day care mostly.
oh, my. I am not sure, for her, that a lump sum for alimony would be advantageous. She has basically been out of the workforce, housing is expensive. She may be able to survive while receiving child support for three children.

The reason you might care is that this will effect her ability to care for the children when she has them (housing, transportation, school fees, etc.)

And, I am glad you are trying to keep the house. That continuity is important for the children.
ivgrivchuck
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by ivgrivchuck »

whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm I need to come up with $50,000 to pay a lump sum alimony payment. Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum. I have approximately $250,000 in a ROTH IRA and $180,000 in a Traditional IRA. I know I can take out principal from a ROTH penalty free, as I've already paid tax on the principal. I don't know what can be done with a Traditional IRA. Maybe there are other options, like taking a home equity loan to pay her off instead of tapping the IRA. Any help is appreciated. Stressful time.
Taking money out of ROTH sounds like a no-brainer to me.

A dollar in Roth is worth around 1.1 dollar in taxable over 20-30 year timespan (of course individual circumstances vary).
So because of this move, you are potentially going to lose $5000 over the next 20-30 years.

Considering everything else that's going on in your life, it doesn't sound like a too big of deal.

Of course if you can easily and cheap refinance your mortgage it might be a slightly cheaper option, but you are not going to come much ahead...
Last edited by ivgrivchuck on Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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JediMisty
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by JediMisty »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:46 pm
Ependytis wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:28 pm As others have said, you have to consider how big of a discount are you getting by paying in a lump sum and does that offset both the cost of raising the money and the possibility that your ex gets remarried. If the ex gets remarried, you would not owe alimony.
Exes don’t remarry if doing so will end alimony. Ask me how I know.

Otoh, depending on the discounted terms and duration of alimony, inflation might make it less painful. My guess is that your ex will be open to taking a lump sum in a year or whenever you have the wherewithal to suggest a new look at a lump sum payout.
Not usually, I suppose. But I was dating someone who wife was awarded lifetime alimony, but ended his payment to his ex by remarrying. Stupidest. Woman. Ever.
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LilyFleur
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by LilyFleur »

whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:39 pm
SquawkIdent wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:30 pm How much of a discount are you getting by agreeing to this? It has to make money sense to go to these lengths.

Trust me...I know my friend. :sharebeer
It makes a ton of sense. At any time she can drop the gloves and go after half of my IRAs. I need to play the game and if it means paying her a lump sum it's still a major financial win for me. Yes I have a lot of company in this divorce world. Sucks!
Try to settle out of court if you can.

Judges are an absolute wild card, not to mention paying two attorneys to:

1. Prepare for court.
2. Drive to court.
3. Sit and wait in court.
4. Drive back to their office from court.

Court gets VERY costly VERY quickly, and based on the income inequities in your case, you will most likely end up paying a portion of her attorney bills.
Last edited by LilyFleur on Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Luckywon
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by Luckywon »

Do you have any side income? If you do, can you open up a solo 401k with a plan provider that allows 401K loans, roll your tIRA into it, and take out the needed cash as a loan from your 401k?

Sorry you are going through all this.
hoofaman
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by hoofaman »

JediMisty wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:43 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:46 pm
Ependytis wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:28 pm As others have said, you have to consider how big of a discount are you getting by paying in a lump sum and does that offset both the cost of raising the money and the possibility that your ex gets remarried. If the ex gets remarried, you would not owe alimony.
Exes don’t remarry if doing so will end alimony. Ask me how I know.

Otoh, depending on the discounted terms and duration of alimony, inflation might make it less painful. My guess is that your ex will be open to taking a lump sum in a year or whenever you have the wherewithal to suggest a new look at a lump sum payout.
Not usually, I suppose. But I was dating someone who wife was awarded lifetime alimony, but ended his payment to his ex by remarrying. Stupidest. Woman. Ever.
Perhaps, or maybe she ran the numbers and thought the new guys payout would be higher
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

LilyFleur wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:40 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:32 pm
Gnirk wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:13 pm Just curious, OP, but did she become a stay-at-home mom of your three girls?
Not really. She opened a business and has run that for the past 11 years. It's more of a hobby though as it doesn't make much money. Kids have been in day care mostly.
oh, my. I am not sure, for her, that a lump sum for alimony would be advantageous. She has basically been out of the workforce, housing is expensive. She may be able to survive while receiving child support for three children.

The reason you might care is that this will effect her ability to care for the children when she has them (housing, transportation, school fees, etc.)

And, I am glad you are trying to keep the house. That continuity is important for the children.
It isn't smart for her no doubt. But I have tried to do everything I could for her financially for more than 14 years and she fought me every step of the way. I paid off her student loans, bought her vehicles because her credit sucked, paid off hidden credit cards, set up and funded her Roth IRA....I cannot handle it anymore. When this divorce is finalized I am done with it and she's on her own...sink or swim. I understand what you're talking about as far as the kids go, they mean everything to me. I need to focus on getting my house in order and they will know they can always move in with me at anytime. My guess is that this will happen eventually because their mom is an absolute mess. I could tell you many many more stories that would help you understand. If you knew half of it you'd say cut ties completely.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

hoofaman wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:54 pm
JediMisty wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:43 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:46 pm
Ependytis wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:28 pm As others have said, you have to consider how big of a discount are you getting by paying in a lump sum and does that offset both the cost of raising the money and the possibility that your ex gets remarried. If the ex gets remarried, you would not owe alimony.
Exes don’t remarry if doing so will end alimony. Ask me how I know.

Otoh, depending on the discounted terms and duration of alimony, inflation might make it less painful. My guess is that your ex will be open to taking a lump sum in a year or whenever you have the wherewithal to suggest a new look at a lump sum payout.
Not usually, I suppose. But I was dating someone who wife was awarded lifetime alimony, but ended his payment to his ex by remarrying. Stupidest. Woman. Ever.
Perhaps, or maybe she ran the numbers and thought the new guys payout would be higher
God I hope so!
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midareff
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by midareff »

whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm I need to come up with $50,000 to pay a lump sum alimony payment. Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum. I have approximately $250,000 in a ROTH IRA and $180,000 in a Traditional IRA. I know I can take out principal from a ROTH penalty free, as I've already paid tax on the principal. I don't know what can be done with a Traditional IRA. Maybe there are other options, like taking a home equity loan to pay her off instead of tapping the IRA. Any help is appreciated. Stressful time.
Have you considered flipping the story..... she buys you out and you just go buy another property for yourself.
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LilyFleur
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by LilyFleur »

whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:55 pm
LilyFleur wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:40 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:32 pm
Gnirk wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:13 pm Just curious, OP, but did she become a stay-at-home mom of your three girls?
Not really. She opened a business and has run that for the past 11 years. It's more of a hobby though as it doesn't make much money. Kids have been in day care mostly.
oh, my. I am not sure, for her, that a lump sum for alimony would be advantageous. She has basically been out of the workforce, housing is expensive. She may be able to survive while receiving child support for three children.

The reason you might care is that this will effect her ability to care for the children when she has them (housing, transportation, school fees, etc.)

And, I am glad you are trying to keep the house. That continuity is important for the children.
It isn't smart for her no doubt. But I have tried to do everything I could for her financially for more than 14 years and she fought me every step of the way. I paid off her student loans, bought her vehicles because her credit sucked, paid off hidden credit cards, set up and funded her Roth IRA....I cannot handle it anymore. When this divorce is finalized I am done with it and she's on her own...sink or swim. I understand what you're talking about as far as the kids go, they mean everything to me. I need to focus on getting my house in order and they will know they can always move in with me at anytime. My guess is that this will happen eventually because their mom is an absolute mess. I could tell you many many more stories that would help you understand. If you knew half of it you'd say cut ties completely.
Yes, you may end up with the children. Hopefully your spouse will not use them as a way to get money to live on. My ex did not want the children much at all until he realized he would pay less in child support if they lived with him more. One of my children moved in with him full-time (the child was basically bribed and now, many years later, regrets that decision.) And the children's father did much worse things that I will not post here.
I feel for you and absolutely support you on this divorce.
If you have the time, there are divorce recovery workshops that can help you get through this. I attended one, volunteered as a group leader at one, and have now helped some friends--and friends of friends--to maneuver their way through their divorces. Some divorces are horrible--mine was, and it lasted more than five years. Today I am much happier than when I was married, and helping others seems to be a way to have a purpose for what I went through.
JediMisty
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by JediMisty »

hoofaman wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:54 pm
JediMisty wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:43 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:46 pm
Ependytis wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:28 pm As others have said, you have to consider how big of a discount are you getting by paying in a lump sum and does that offset both the cost of raising the money and the possibility that your ex gets remarried. If the ex gets remarried, you would not owe alimony.
Exes don’t remarry if doing so will end alimony. Ask me how I know.

Otoh, depending on the discounted terms and duration of alimony, inflation might make it less painful. My guess is that your ex will be open to taking a lump sum in a year or whenever you have the wherewithal to suggest a new look at a lump sum payout.
Not usually, I suppose. But I was dating someone who wife was awarded lifetime alimony, but ended his payment to his ex by remarrying. Stupidest. Woman. Ever.
Perhaps, or maybe she ran the numbers and thought the new guys payout would be higher
The new hubby makes peanuts. They seem happy, though .......these days there is almost never lifetime alimony in my state. Plus she works, now so she'd be unlikely to get anything.. .
ZMonet
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by ZMonet »

Sorry you're going through this. All I can say is that I'm sure you've done the math and that you're right that whatever it takes to limit the ties between you, the better. Obviously, you won't be able to completely eliminate them since you share the kids.

...and I'm betting your single life will be a noine! Just don't start collecting vinyl or comic cells.

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upstate90
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by upstate90 »

I didn't need any more examples of why to never get married but this thread provided one anyway.

Sorry for what you're going through. I would do the easiest, quickest, cheapest thing to just settle everything, lick your wounds, and move on with your life.

…and don't ever get married again.
livelovelaugh00
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by livelovelaugh00 »

Why not use QDRO? This is a way to transfer assets on retirement account in divorce settlement.
Transfer 50k from your 401k or Rollover ira to hers. The QDRO transfer does not involve tax. Its better to use the money from pre-tax account so that you don't have to pay tax later. 50k cash worth more than 50k in 401k or Rollover account.
If yours are with Fidelity, call them about QDRA, the experts there will tell you the steps. It has to be done by them.
Good luck.
horste
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by horste »

midareff wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:00 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm I need to come up with $50,000 to pay a lump sum alimony payment. Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum. I have approximately $250,000 in a ROTH IRA and $180,000 in a Traditional IRA. I know I can take out principal from a ROTH penalty free, as I've already paid tax on the principal. I don't know what can be done with a Traditional IRA. Maybe there are other options, like taking a home equity loan to pay her off instead of tapping the IRA. Any help is appreciated. Stressful time.
Have you considered flipping the story..... she buys you out and you just go buy another property for yourself.
I was thinking this too. I know the OP mentioned liking their house right now and does not seemed interested in this option.

In my experience (still in the pre-divorce house I purchased with my ex), I was in a similar position but need to come up with only about a fifth the same money to payout. Even with the house value appreciation, it still took more emotional and mental work to no longer have associations of the house and my ex. I thought it would be gone in a few months. Several years later, there are still small things that I consciously have to do to scrub them away from my home.

If I were to do it again. I'd negotiate to have the house listed to be sold within 6 months and find a new place to live.
SrGrumpy
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by SrGrumpy »

midareff wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:00 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm I need to come up with $50,000 to pay a lump sum alimony payment. Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum. I have approximately $250,000 in a ROTH IRA and $180,000 in a Traditional IRA. I know I can take out principal from a ROTH penalty free, as I've already paid tax on the principal. I don't know what can be done with a Traditional IRA. Maybe there are other options, like taking a home equity loan to pay her off instead of tapping the IRA. Any help is appreciated. Stressful time.
Have you considered flipping the story..... she buys you out and you just go buy another property for yourself.
Doesn't seem she's financially compos mentis, and also the daughters might appreciate the stability he can offer in the home they grew up in.
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celia
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by celia »

whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm I need to come up with $50,000 to pay a lump sum alimony payment. Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum. I have approximately $250,000 in a ROTH IRA and $180,000 in a Traditional IRA.
Recently I read about a judge ordering part of an IRA to be re-assigned to the other spouse, I guess this was so the money would stay in the same type of account with no tax implications. Would she accept $50k from your tax-deferred to her tax-deferred? Second choice would be $25k from each IRA. Third choice would be $50k from your Roth to hers.

Would the judge be agreeable to that?

Would your wife accept it or is she only looking for cash to spend right now?

Be sure to read and understand the post 3 posts above and at the bottom of the first page as errors can be expensive. Retirement account assets would be good for your wife if she keeps them in the account. From reading that her IRAs are less than yours, she’ll probably feel ‘rich’. But these accounts can be re-built. You’ll feel better too after the split is finalized and done.

Note my signature (as far as future spending power).
A dollar in Roth is worth more than a dollar in a taxable account. A dollar in taxable is worth more than a dollar in a tax-deferred account.
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btq96r
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by btq96r »

Loathsome as I seems, I would hit up your parents. Get them read on for anything they don't know to be transparent with your ask, and come to them with a repayment plan you tool your budget to allow for. They should hopefully see this as helping you and their grandchildren at the same time. You may need to reduce tax advantaged contributions to repay them in a fair timeline, but that's better than withdrawing money I would say.

HELOC would be the next best option I see. Maybe you can combine the two options along some split as to not over burden your folks if it helps.

This is one area where I'd say debt is useful. Getting to move on (at least financially) is in everybody's best interest, yours especially, and her short term thinking has given you an opportunity here.

Keeping the home as is and ready for the kids stability, as well as being ready for them to move in if needed is commendable and prudent.
SQRT
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by SQRT »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:19 pm
I would not want to create a situation where subsequent events could provide another bite at the apple for an exe. Unless the discount is compelling, I would lean to sticking to the agreement.
This was a big issue in my divorce. I kept making more money and she kept coming back for more of it. Took 15 years and my retirement to finally finalize it. I paid several lump sums throughout this period. Be careful.
SQRT
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by SQRT »

btq96r wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:17 am
Keeping the home as is and ready for the kids stability, as well as being ready for them to move in if needed is commendable and prudent.
Agree. Especially for your kids. I was able to do this (Xwife actually got the house but I paid for it).
humbledinvestor
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by humbledinvestor »

whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:36 pm
Zeppcoustic wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:28 pm Hang in there man. And a bababooey to you.
My married life is at like a 2 but my single life will be at a noine :beer
Just make sure somewhere along the future there isn’t the possibility of m m mm mmm marriage......

Hang in there OP. I have been in your situation before. I know how it sucks.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

midareff wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:00 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm I need to come up with $50,000 to pay a lump sum alimony payment. Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum. I have approximately $250,000 in a ROTH IRA and $180,000 in a Traditional IRA. I know I can take out principal from a ROTH penalty free, as I've already paid tax on the principal. I don't know what can be done with a Traditional IRA. Maybe there are other options, like taking a home equity loan to pay her off instead of tapping the IRA. Any help is appreciated. Stressful time.
Have you considered flipping the story..... she buys you out and you just go buy another property for yourself.
That would never work. It's too much property for her. Long driveway and big yard to mow and weed wack. She is way too lazy to keep up on it and she knows this.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

LilyFleur wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:06 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:55 pm
LilyFleur wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:40 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:32 pm
Gnirk wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:13 pm Just curious, OP, but did she become a stay-at-home mom of your three girls?
Not really. She opened a business and has run that for the past 11 years. It's more of a hobby though as it doesn't make much money. Kids have been in day care mostly.
oh, my. I am not sure, for her, that a lump sum for alimony would be advantageous. She has basically been out of the workforce, housing is expensive. She may be able to survive while receiving child support for three children.

The reason you might care is that this will effect her ability to care for the children when she has them (housing, transportation, school fees, etc.)

And, I am glad you are trying to keep the house. That continuity is important for the children.
It isn't smart for her no doubt. But I have tried to do everything I could for her financially for more than 14 years and she fought me every step of the way. I paid off her student loans, bought her vehicles because her credit sucked, paid off hidden credit cards, set up and funded her Roth IRA....I cannot handle it anymore. When this divorce is finalized I am done with it and she's on her own...sink or swim. I understand what you're talking about as far as the kids go, they mean everything to me. I need to focus on getting my house in order and they will know they can always move in with me at anytime. My guess is that this will happen eventually because their mom is an absolute mess. I could tell you many many more stories that would help you understand. If you knew half of it you'd say cut ties completely.
Yes, you may end up with the children. Hopefully your spouse will not use them as a way to get money to live on. My ex did not want the children much at all until he realized he would pay less in child support if they lived with him more. One of my children moved in with him full-time (the child was basically bribed and now, many years later, regrets that decision.) And the children's father did much worse things that I will not post here.
I feel for you and absolutely support you on this divorce.
If you have the time, there are divorce recovery workshops that can help you get through this. I attended one, volunteered as a group leader at one, and have now helped some friends--and friends of friends--to maneuver their way through their divorces. Some divorces are horrible--mine was, and it lasted more than five years. Today I am much happier than when I was married, and helping others seems to be a way to have a purpose for what I went through.
Thanks so much for the advise. This is all new to me but I am confident I will be like you, much happier when it's done.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

JediMisty wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:12 pm
hoofaman wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:54 pm
JediMisty wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:43 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:46 pm
Ependytis wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:28 pm As others have said, you have to consider how big of a discount are you getting by paying in a lump sum and does that offset both the cost of raising the money and the possibility that your ex gets remarried. If the ex gets remarried, you would not owe alimony.
Exes don’t remarry if doing so will end alimony. Ask me how I know.

Otoh, depending on the discounted terms and duration of alimony, inflation might make it less painful. My guess is that your ex will be open to taking a lump sum in a year or whenever you have the wherewithal to suggest a new look at a lump sum payout.
Not usually, I suppose. But I was dating someone who wife was awarded lifetime alimony, but ended his payment to his ex by remarrying. Stupidest. Woman. Ever.
Perhaps, or maybe she ran the numbers and thought the new guys payout would be higher
The new hubby makes peanuts. They seem happy, though .......these days there is almost never lifetime alimony in my state. Plus she works, now so she'd be unlikely to get anything.. .
Thankfully I'm in a state that is very unlikely to award lifetime alimony as well.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

ZMonet wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:47 pm Sorry you're going through this. All I can say is that I'm sure you've done the math and that you're right that whatever it takes to limit the ties between you, the better. Obviously, you won't be able to completely eliminate them since you share the kids.

...and I'm betting your single life will be a noine! Just don't start collecting vinyl or comic cells.

Image
Oh man that doll is awesome, I'm searching for that on Ebay right away. FYI I'm up to 20 pieces of Vinyl.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

upstate90 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:40 pm I didn't need any more examples of why to never get married but this thread provided one anyway.

Sorry for what you're going through. I would do the easiest, quickest, cheapest thing to just settle everything, lick your wounds, and move on with your life.

…and don't ever get married again.
I'm with you 100%.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

btq96r wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:17 am Loathsome as I seems, I would hit up your parents. Get them read on for anything they don't know to be transparent with your ask, and come to them with a repayment plan you tool your budget to allow for. They should hopefully see this as helping you and their grandchildren at the same time. You may need to reduce tax advantaged contributions to repay them in a fair timeline, but that's better than withdrawing money I would say.

HELOC would be the next best option I see. Maybe you can combine the two options along some split as to not over burden your folks if it helps.

This is one area where I'd say debt is useful. Getting to move on (at least financially) is in everybody's best interest, yours especially, and her short term thinking has given you an opportunity here.

Keeping the home as is and ready for the kids stability, as well as being ready for them to move in if needed is commendable and prudent.
You and I are on the same page.
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

SQRT wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:27 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:19 pm
I would not want to create a situation where subsequent events could provide another bite at the apple for an exe. Unless the discount is compelling, I would lean to sticking to the agreement.
This was a big issue in my divorce. I kept making more money and she kept coming back for more of it. Took 15 years and my retirement to finally finalize it. I paid several lump sums throughout this period. Be careful.
From what my attorney tells me and from what I've read about my State it seems this is unlikely, but what do I really know? You mind if I ask what State you live in? Fingers crossed it's not where I live. Sorry you had to put up with that. Wiped your retirement? That's so damn unfair.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

humbledinvestor wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:18 am
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:36 pm
Zeppcoustic wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:28 pm Hang in there man. And a bababooey to you.
My married life is at like a 2 but my single life will be at a noine :beer
Just make sure somewhere along the future there isn’t the possibility of m m mm mmm marriage......

Hang in there OP. I have been in your situation before. I know how it sucks.
I don't want to give a commitment and I don't want to have a commitment
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by midareff »

horste wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:20 pm
midareff wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:00 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm I need to come up with $50,000 to pay a lump sum alimony payment. Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum. I have approximately $250,000 in a ROTH IRA and $180,000 in a Traditional IRA. I know I can take out principal from a ROTH penalty free, as I've already paid tax on the principal. I don't know what can be done with a Traditional IRA. Maybe there are other options, like taking a home equity loan to pay her off instead of tapping the IRA. Any help is appreciated. Stressful time.
Have you considered flipping the story..... she buys you out and you just go buy another property for yourself.
I was thinking this too. I know the OP mentioned liking their house right now and does not seemed interested in this option.

In my experience (still in the pre-divorce house I purchased with my ex), I was in a similar position but need to come up with only about a fifth the same money to payout. Even with the house value appreciation, it still took more emotional and mental work to no longer have associations of the house and my ex. I thought it would be gone in a few months. Several years later, there are still small things that I consciously have to do to scrub them away from my home.

If I were to do it again. I'd negotiate to have the house listed to be sold within 6 months and find a new place to live.
A long time ago in a far distant galaxy that was what was done in my first divorce. Listed, sold, gone and everyone moves on, hopefully. I suspect he likes the house full of better memories than he likes the house and what comes next when the new girlfriend doesn't want to sleep on the same mattress the x-wife did.
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by midareff »

SrGrumpy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:51 pm
midareff wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:00 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm I need to come up with $50,000 to pay a lump sum alimony payment. Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum. I have approximately $250,000 in a ROTH IRA and $180,000 in a Traditional IRA. I know I can take out principal from a ROTH penalty free, as I've already paid tax on the principal. I don't know what can be done with a Traditional IRA. Maybe there are other options, like taking a home equity loan to pay her off instead of tapping the IRA. Any help is appreciated. Stressful time.
Have you considered flipping the story..... she buys you out and you just go buy another property for yourself.
Doesn't seem she's financially compos mentis, and also the daughters might appreciate the stability he can offer in the home they grew up in.
Respectfully, for him having done so much financially for her I would cite the same. IMHO kids recognize love and caring, not financial acumen.
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by midareff »

whoshighpitch wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:19 am
midareff wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:00 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm I need to come up with $50,000 to pay a lump sum alimony payment. Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum. I have approximately $250,000 in a ROTH IRA and $180,000 in a Traditional IRA. I know I can take out principal from a ROTH penalty free, as I've already paid tax on the principal. I don't know what can be done with a Traditional IRA. Maybe there are other options, like taking a home equity loan to pay her off instead of tapping the IRA. Any help is appreciated. Stressful time.
Have you considered flipping the story..... she buys you out and you just go buy another property for yourself.
That would never work. It's too much property for her. Long driveway and big yard to mow and weed wack. She is way too lazy to keep up on it and she knows this.
Are you sure you aren't just holding on to some better memories than anything tangible? When you are a single guy in a house with kids you want to visit with and a new g/f you want to spend time with mowing the lawn and weed whacking may not be as valuable a sport as you think of it now. It sure wasn't for me.
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

midareff wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:03 am
whoshighpitch wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:19 am
midareff wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:00 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm I need to come up with $50,000 to pay a lump sum alimony payment. Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum. I have approximately $250,000 in a ROTH IRA and $180,000 in a Traditional IRA. I know I can take out principal from a ROTH penalty free, as I've already paid tax on the principal. I don't know what can be done with a Traditional IRA. Maybe there are other options, like taking a home equity loan to pay her off instead of tapping the IRA. Any help is appreciated. Stressful time.
Have you considered flipping the story..... she buys you out and you just go buy another property for yourself.
That would never work. It's too much property for her. Long driveway and big yard to mow and weed wack. She is way too lazy to keep up on it and she knows this.
Are you sure you aren't just holding on to some better memories than anything tangible? When you are a single guy in a house with kids you want to visit with and a new g/f you want to spend time with mowing the lawn and weed whacking may not be as valuable a sport as you think of it now. It sure wasn't for me.
Not holding on to memories at all. I love the property, it's private, has some land, I can garden, the kids can ride their quads, etc. I know everyone is different but I love maintaining the property. I'd be in my own personal hell if I was in a condo or apartment, that's just me.
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by midareff »

whoshighpitch wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:13 am
midareff wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:03 am
whoshighpitch wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:19 am
midareff wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:00 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm I need to come up with $50,000 to pay a lump sum alimony payment. Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum. I have approximately $250,000 in a ROTH IRA and $180,000 in a Traditional IRA. I know I can take out principal from a ROTH penalty free, as I've already paid tax on the principal. I don't know what can be done with a Traditional IRA. Maybe there are other options, like taking a home equity loan to pay her off instead of tapping the IRA. Any help is appreciated. Stressful time.
Have you considered flipping the story..... she buys you out and you just go buy another property for yourself.
That would never work. It's too much property for her. Long driveway and big yard to mow and weed wack. She is way too lazy to keep up on it and she knows this.
Are you sure you aren't just holding on to some better memories than anything tangible? When you are a single guy in a house with kids you want to visit with and a new g/f you want to spend time with mowing the lawn and weed whacking may not be as valuable a sport as you think of it now. It sure wasn't for me.
Not holding on to memories at all. I love the property, it's private, has some land, I can garden, the kids can ride their quads, etc. I know everyone is different but I love maintaining the property. I'd be in my own personal hell if I was in a condo or apartment, that's just me.
Than do what you have to do by any means possible. There are way too few things in life we actually get to love to give them up if we can help it. If your home and land are part of that do what you got to do.

1. Home equity loan... money is lifetime cheap right now.
2. Loan against IRA's would save the tax consequences.

I'd check if either of those is a possibility.
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by RevFran »

It’s clear you want to keep the house (and if that changes later, you can sell). How much is in your EF? How burdensome would it be for your parents— do they keep a lot of cash, or would they be selling equities or mortgaging their own home? What amount could you pretty easily pay per month if you were paying back a loan?
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

RevFran wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:46 am It’s clear you want to keep the house (and if that changes later, you can sell). How much is in your EF? How burdensome would it be for your parents— do they keep a lot of cash, or would they be selling equities or mortgaging their own home? What amount could you pretty easily pay per month if you were paying back a loan?
I'm not sure how much my EF will be, it's contingent on what our attorney bills are. It may be $10,000 - $20,000. However, as someone else said in this thread I can always look at my ROTH as an absolute emergency fund. My dad keeps most of his money in a bank account. I've been trying to get him to invest in the stock market for decades but he's rick averse to say the least. He's got a school pension and SS but still won't invest. Drives me crazy!...but that's another story. Before anyone gets on my case I fully understand it's his money and he can do what he's comfortable with. Forget the fact he'd be literally hundreds of thousands richer if he took my advise :oops:
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by Call_Me_Op »

whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:34 pm Wife has agreed to take a lesser amount in alimony if it's a lump sum.
Goes without saying, but make sure you get this in writing.
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by humbledinvestor »

whoshighpitch wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:48 am
humbledinvestor wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:18 am
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:36 pm
Zeppcoustic wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:28 pm Hang in there man. And a bababooey to you.
My married life is at like a 2 but my single life will be at a noine :beer
Just make sure somewhere along the future there isn’t the possibility of m m mm mmm marriage......

Hang in there OP. I have been in your situation before. I know how it sucks.
I don't want to give a commitment and I don't want to have a commitment
OP (High Pitch), it feels like you lost your lover and your best friend and your Ex lost her lover and her best friend.

If you like the house and enjoy the work keep it. Sounds like a nice place the kids enjoy. For most of the divorced parents I know, most of them kept the home if they were able to. Nothing to do with emotion, but it's nice that when with one of the parents the kids can walk home from school etc.
I sold the house as I don't enjoy home maintenance at all.
Last edited by humbledinvestor on Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

humbledinvestor wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:10 am
whoshighpitch wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:48 am
humbledinvestor wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:18 am
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:36 pm
Zeppcoustic wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:28 pm Hang in there man. And a bababooey to you.
My married life is at like a 2 but my single life will be at a noine :beer
Just make sure somewhere along the future there isn’t the possibility of m m mm mmm marriage......

Hang in there OP. I have been in your situation before. I know how it sucks.
I don't want to give a commitment and I don't want to have a commitment
OP (High Pitch), it feels like you lost your lover and your best friend and your Ex lost her lover and her best friend.
I'm at the office right now listening to the entire apology tape show on youtube. Greatest radio moment of all time.
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by humbledinvestor »

whoshighpitch wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:21 am
humbledinvestor wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:10 am
whoshighpitch wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:48 am
humbledinvestor wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:18 am
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:36 pm
My married life is at like a 2 but my single life will be at a noine :beer
Just make sure somewhere along the future there isn’t the possibility of m m mm mmm marriage......

Hang in there OP. I have been in your situation before. I know how it sucks.
I don't want to give a commitment and I don't want to have a commitment
OP (High Pitch), it feels like you lost your lover and your best friend and your Ex lost her lover and her best friend.
I'm at the office right now listening to the entire apology tape show on youtube. Greatest radio moment of all time.
I have watched the tape this AM, but now will have the whole show playing once my meetings are done.
delamer
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by delamer »

ResearchMed wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:28 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:02 pm
delamer wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:53 pm
whoshighpitch wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:13 pm
8foot7 wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:11 pm

Any competent divorce lawyer would word the lump sum alimony agreement receipt as once and final.
Of course, child support can be assessed, re-assessed, changed generally at any time and certainly within fixed, relatively short intervals.
I don't know if my attorney is competent but at least he's expensive.
Thank you for my laugh-of-the-day! :D

Sorry that you and your daughters are going through this.
Ha, glad someone caught it. They've been through too much but it will be so much better when this is done. Thanks for the good thoughts.
I got a terriric chuckle out of your comment, too.
(Actually, I'm not sure about that word "too", as sometimes I think that delamer and I are the same person :D Many similarities, at the least!)

And I wanted to add: Don't forget, and especially remember when you get those waves of annoyance, etc., that you are doing a LOT of this for... those three beautiful little girls! That is priceless, even if you aren't charging it on VISA/MasterCard, but then... maybe you will? :wink:

By the time they are all out of college, you'll probably feel a bit better about all of this, eh?
As DH likes to say, 'This too shall pass..." (He's even had paperweights and such made to give to a few people who were going through really, *really* difficult times...)

And for when you have a moment for some amusement, here is a video:
"This Too Shall Pass - Rube Goldberg Machine"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qybUFnY7Y8w

RM
Great minds think alike, ResearchMed! :D
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
SQRT
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by SQRT »

whoshighpitch wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 6:39 am
SQRT wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:27 am
TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:19 pm
I would not want to create a situation where subsequent events could provide another bite at the apple for an exe. Unless the discount is compelling, I would lean to sticking to the agreement.
This was a big issue in my divorce. I kept making more money and she kept coming back for more of it. Took 15 years and my retirement to finally finalize it. I paid several lump sums throughout this period. Be careful.
From what my attorney tells me and from what I've read about my State it seems this is unlikely, but what do I really know? You mind if I ask what State you live in? Fingers crossed it's not where I live. Sorry you had to put up with that. Wiped your retirement? That's so damn unfair.
Each state is different. I lived in Ontario, Canada. All good now, as there was enough money to go around. I was married for about 19 years to her and in Ontario this qualifies as a long term marriage and subject to the formulaic alimony rules which can be amended for significant changes in circumstances. I had to disclose to her my tax returns each year until she agreed to a “final” settlement. The wording of that settlement is as “iron clad” as it can be and my lawyer thought it very unlikely that she could challenge it later. Ended up being less than 15% of my retirement cash flow. Well worth it.
Last edited by SQRT on Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
sls239
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by sls239 »

Before spending money to preserve your Roth space, you should ask the question - does it need to be preserved?

Not everybody needs every inch of roth space they can get, but some people certainly do.

And to answer that question, I suggest you get a good handle on what your finances - including your taxes - will look like post-divorce.
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by DVMResident »

Tier 1: Family loan >

Tier 2: HELOC (should be feasible with your equity and are low interest these days) >>

Tier 3: 401(k) loan >>>

Tier 4: Personal loan (my bank is offering unsecured loans 5.75% up to $100k with no origination fees up to 36 months). YMMV.
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whoshighpitch
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Re: Need Cash for Divorce Payout

Post by whoshighpitch »

sls239 wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:05 am Before spending money to preserve your Roth space, you should ask the question - does it need to be preserved?

Not everybody needs every inch of roth space they can get, but some people certainly do.

And to answer that question, I suggest you get a good handle on what your finances - including your taxes - will look like post-divorce.
There is some wiggle room with the ROTH space. Based on my IRA balance (Roth & Trad), my age, and assuming a 7% return, I will have approximately 1.5 million at age 65. More money is always better than less but I can tell you that is more than enough for me. I hunt and fish and my preferred vacations involve camping and road trips. I'm not a man with expensive tastes by any means. So I would say I don't need every inch of ROTH space, if I'm understanding your question.
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