Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

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Cucumbers
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Cucumbers »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:11 pm
Cucumbers wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:06 pm Agreed, likely more difficult to obtain private insurance policy in the future. However if premiums are 5x current rates then why not just pay the 0.58% tax? Unless W2 income is >$400k, should be cheaper just to pay the tax…
I was able to get a LTCi policy for about $260/year. The break-even income for such a policy is only $45k.

Given the risk involved, I'm not cancelling my policy anytime soon.
You are also not guaranteed that your current policy will satisfy future exemption requirements…
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Cucumbers wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:30 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:11 pm
Cucumbers wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:06 pm Agreed, likely more difficult to obtain private insurance policy in the future. However if premiums are 5x current rates then why not just pay the 0.58% tax? Unless W2 income is >$400k, should be cheaper just to pay the tax…
I was able to get a LTCi policy for about $260/year. The break-even income for such a policy is only $45k.

Given the risk involved, I'm not cancelling my policy anytime soon.
You are also not guaranteed that your current policy will satisfy future exemption requirements…
I thought the exemption is good for your lifetime.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:31 pm
Cucumbers wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:30 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:11 pm
Cucumbers wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:06 pm Agreed, likely more difficult to obtain private insurance policy in the future. However if premiums are 5x current rates then why not just pay the 0.58% tax? Unless W2 income is >$400k, should be cheaper just to pay the tax…
I was able to get a LTCi policy for about $260/year. The break-even income for such a policy is only $45k.

Given the risk involved, I'm not cancelling my policy anytime soon.
You are also not guaranteed that your current policy will satisfy future exemption requirements…
I thought the exemption is good for your lifetime.
Under the current law, it is. If the law is changed, that exemption may not apply. But I think that those who permanently opted out would have to be grandfathered in (i.e., their permanent opt out would be honored) if the law is changed.
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Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:36 pm Under the current law, it is. If the law is changed, that exemption may not apply. But I think that those who permanently opted out would have to be grandfathered in (i.e., their permanent opt out would be honored) if the law is changed.
This is my take as well. They can't say permanent, then change the law later and say we are no longer permanently opted out.

Now, those moving to the WA state in the future may not get a lifetime exemption if the law will have changed by then.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

I would be shocked if policies purchased before November 1 don't qualify for the "new" exemption requirements, whatever they may be. That would be absurd, but nothing surprises me anymore.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

BruDude wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:35 pm I would be shocked if policies purchased before November 1 don't qualify for the "new" exemption requirements, whatever they may be. That would be absurd, but nothing surprises me anymore.
Even if they don't, as I noted above, I believe that lawmakers would be legally obligated to grandfather in those who permanently (per the current law's language) opted out of the tax last year.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:36 pm
BruDude wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:35 pm I would be shocked if policies purchased before November 1 don't qualify for the "new" exemption requirements, whatever they may be. That would be absurd, but nothing surprises me anymore.
Even if they don't, as I noted above, I believe that lawmakers would be legally obligated to grandfather in those who permanently (per the current law's language) opted out of the tax last year.
I agree, it would be hard to believe they wouldn't do that and allow the existing policies to qualify. There would be a whole lot more uproar if they suddenly changed the rules and forced everyone to do this all over again. What a mess that would be!
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by curmudgeon »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:36 pm
BruDude wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:35 pm I would be shocked if policies purchased before November 1 don't qualify for the "new" exemption requirements, whatever they may be. That would be absurd, but nothing surprises me anymore.
Even if they don't, as I noted above, I believe that lawmakers would be legally obligated to grandfather in those who permanently (per the current law's language) opted out of the tax last year.
As Will Rogers would say: "Nobody's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session"
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

curmudgeon wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:13 am
willthrill81 wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:36 pm
BruDude wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:35 pm I would be shocked if policies purchased before November 1 don't qualify for the "new" exemption requirements, whatever they may be. That would be absurd, but nothing surprises me anymore.
Even if they don't, as I noted above, I believe that lawmakers would be legally obligated to grandfather in those who permanently (per the current law's language) opted out of the tax last year.
As Will Rogers would say: "Nobody's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session"
Believe it or not, there are many things that even a legislature cannot do.
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Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

Looks like some changes have passed the legislature.

https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/sta ... est_latest
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by airborne »

I can't seem to find this bit of information anywhere: Is the tax to be levied on WA residents who are employed and earn money in a different state?

However, it appears the legislature has kicked the can into Summer 2023 (and hopefully again into eternity).
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by LadyGeek »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:22 am Looks like some changes have passed the legislature.

https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/sta ... est_latest
The bill has not yet been signed into law. As stated in my previous post, speculation about future legislation is prohibited by forum policy.

For reference, status of the bill is here: HB 1732 - 2021-22 (on Governor's desk). Contents of the bill can be found in the "Available Documents" section.

The delay can be discussed after it is signed into law.
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Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

LadyGeek wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:53 am The delay can be discussed after it is signed into law.
Sorry for jumping the gun.
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Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

mc7 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:17 pm Legislation signed into law. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... e-program/
Interesting...so it appears it is safe to cancel LTCI and re-join by July 2023?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

So far there have been three attempts to repeal the program. All of them have failed.

However, there was one HUGE mistake in the law:

The law required everyone to pay into the program but did NOT make exceptions for those who could never benefit from the program.

Because of this huge mistake in the law, two lawsuits were filed and one "cease and desist" letter from the governor of Idaho.

The government had a choice: fight those lawsuits OR change the law.

They decided to change the law.

The first major change creates four NEW categories of workers who can opt-out of the program if they want to.

Up until now, the only workers in Washington who are exempted from the program are those who own long-term care insurance with an effective date prior to November 1st, 2021. About 450,000 Washingtonians purchased long-term care insurance before November 1st, 2021 and have opted-out of the program.

Now about 250,000 MORE workers can opt-out of the program IF they fall under one of these four, new categories:

1. Anyone who works in Washington but resides in another state
2. Spouses of military stationed in Washington
3. Disabled veterans (70%), and
4. Anyone working in Washington with a temporary visa


The second major change gives a prorated benefit to people who pay into the program but retire in the next 10 years. For each year someone pays into the program, they will be able to receive 1/10th of the program’s lifetime benefit ($3,650). For example, someone who pays into the program for six years and then retires would be able to qualify for $21,900 of benefits should they ever need long-term care. ($3,650 x 6 = $21,900)

It took almost three years for the state government to put the systems in place to run this program. Now they have to modify their systems to handle these two major changes. The biggest delay will be the roughly 250,000 workers in Washington who can now opt-out of the program. Those workers need to be notified and given the opportunity to opt-out if they choose to.

The ESD will have until June, 2023 to make these changes in their systems and notify all employers and employees. The program will then officially start (again) on July 1, 2023.

Nothing else has changed about the law. If you don’t fall into one of the four categories I listed above, then you must own a policy with an effective date prior to November 1st, 2021 to retain your right to be exempted from the program.

There will likely be more changes in the law, but we can't speculate on that.
Last edited by WoW2012 on Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:20 pm
mc7 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:17 pm Legislation signed into law. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... e-program/
Interesting...so it appears it is safe to cancel LTCI and re-join by July 2023?
Where in the law does it say that a policy purchased after November 1st, 2021 will qualify for an exemption?
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:25 pm Where in the law does it say that a policy purchased after November 1st, 2021 will qualify for an exemption?
Well...first, I already got an exemption.

Second, given the law has been postponed till July 2023, even if I don't currently have LTCi, it is conceivable there will be some date between now and then during which I can get LTCi and still satisfy the requirements.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:32 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:25 pm Where in the law does it say that a policy purchased after November 1st, 2021 will qualify for an exemption?
Well...first, I already got an exemption.

Second, given the law has been postponed till July 2023, even if I don't currently have LTCi, it is conceivable there will be some date between now and then during which I can get LTCi and still satisfy the requirements.
Where did you read that?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:33 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:32 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:25 pm Where in the law does it say that a policy purchased after November 1st, 2021 will qualify for an exemption?
Well...first, I already got an exemption.

Second, given the law has been postponed till July 2023, even if I don't currently have LTCi, it is conceivable there will be some date between now and then during which I can get LTCi and still satisfy the requirements.
Where did you read that?
I did not, but it'd be quite silly to believe that the November 1, 2021 date still holds when we're talking about July 2023.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:39 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:33 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:32 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:25 pm Where in the law does it say that a policy purchased after November 1st, 2021 will qualify for an exemption?
Well...first, I already got an exemption.

Second, given the law has been postponed till July 2023, even if I don't currently have LTCi, it is conceivable there will be some date between now and then during which I can get LTCi and still satisfy the requirements.
Where did you read that?
I did not, but it'd be quite silly to believe that the November 1, 2021 date still holds when we're talking about July 2023.
Why would that be silly?
You must not have read my long post.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:43 pm Why would that be silly?
You must not have read my long post.
Because I would think that the Washingtonians would have an opportunity to get their own coverage between 11/1/21 ~ 7/1/23.

Already this situation is very fuzzy for those moving to the WA state after 11/1/21.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:39 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:33 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:32 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:25 pm Where in the law does it say that a policy purchased after November 1st, 2021 will qualify for an exemption?
Well...first, I already got an exemption.

Second, given the law has been postponed till July 2023, even if I don't currently have LTCi, it is conceivable there will be some date between now and then during which I can get LTCi and still satisfy the requirements.
Where did you read that?
I did not, but it'd be quite silly to believe that the November 1, 2021 date still holds when we're talking about July 2023.
I would not count on another election period, and I would not count on there being reasonably priced products if there is one. Most insurance companies significantly increased their minimum benefit or minimum premium requirements because they don't want this business in the first place. Canceling your policy in hopes of getting another one later to save a few bucks might wind up costing you a lot more than you think. Not buying another policy could be the most expensive option when the state realizes there isn't enough revenue and raises the tax rate to make up for it.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

BruDude wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:45 pm I would not count on another election period, and I would not count on there being reasonably priced products if there is one. Most insurance companies significantly increased their minimum benefit or minimum premium requirements because they don't want this business in the first place. Canceling your policy in hopes of getting another one later to save a few bucks might wind up costing you a lot more than you think. Not buying another policy could be the most expensive option when the state realizes there isn't enough revenue and raises the tax rate to make up for it.
Yeah, I get what you're saying.

That said, for those who got an exemption are said to have opted-out for life. I am curious if delaying the implementation of the law until July 2023 would nullify any of that.

I suspect they have to honor a lifetime exemption since the law was such back then (barring false attestations and all that).
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

If anyone is still waiting on a Nationwide policy to be issued, you better call them immediately. I was just told that any policies not placed in force by January 31 will be terminated and the policies won't be issued. They sent no official communication about it to agents or applicants, only to internal departments and case managers. This is 100% Nationwide's fault, there is no reason for their January 31 deadline other the fact that they don't want to deal with this anymore. I still have 5 policies pending waiting to be issued and am beyond livid right now that they would do this to the people who applied 6 months ago before the August application deadline that Nationwide set. Absolutely absurd.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:47 pm
BruDude wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:45 pm I would not count on another election period, and I would not count on there being reasonably priced products if there is one. Most insurance companies significantly increased their minimum benefit or minimum premium requirements because they don't want this business in the first place. Canceling your policy in hopes of getting another one later to save a few bucks might wind up costing you a lot more than you think. Not buying another policy could be the most expensive option when the state realizes there isn't enough revenue and raises the tax rate to make up for it.
Yeah, I get what you're saying.

That said, for those who got an exemption are said to have opted-out for life. I am curious if delaying the implementation of the law until July 2023 would nullify any of that.

I suspect they have to honor a lifetime exemption since the law was such back then (barring false attestations and all that).
For a $260/year policy, I'm not chancing it yet. I'll retain my policy until the act is implemented at the very least.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:05 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:47 pm
BruDude wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:45 pm I would not count on another election period, and I would not count on there being reasonably priced products if there is one. Most insurance companies significantly increased their minimum benefit or minimum premium requirements because they don't want this business in the first place. Canceling your policy in hopes of getting another one later to save a few bucks might wind up costing you a lot more than you think. Not buying another policy could be the most expensive option when the state realizes there isn't enough revenue and raises the tax rate to make up for it.
Yeah, I get what you're saying.

That said, for those who got an exemption are said to have opted-out for life. I am curious if delaying the implementation of the law until July 2023 would nullify any of that.

I suspect they have to honor a lifetime exemption since the law was such back then (barring false attestations and all that).
For a $260/year policy, I'm not chancing it yet. I'll retain my policy until the act is implemented at the very least.
Yeah, I plan to carry for at least a year unless I move out of state.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tetractys »

How long until this new law completes legislation?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by chrischris »

I pay $100 a month for my wife and I for a private plan.

We are both "permanently" opted out of the WA Cares program. Are we safe to cancel our private plans...?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

tetractys wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:18 pm How long until this new law completes legislation?
It's already signed into law.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

chrischris wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:41 pm I pay $100 a month for my wife and I for a private plan.

We are both "permanently" opted out of the WA Cares program. Are we safe to cancel our private plans...?
No
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tetractys »

willthrill81 wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:37 pm
tetractys wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:18 pm How long until this new law completes legislation?
It's already signed into law.
OK just today Jan 27! There have been many changes! https://wacaresfund.wa.gov/about-the-wa-cares-fund/
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by EnerJi »

tetractys wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:18 am OK just today Jan 27! There have been many changes! https://wacaresfund.wa.gov/about-the-wa-cares-fund/
From that link, there will be additional information and guidance posted in February. I definitely would not make any changes at least until then, but I agree with others who say that canceling and hoping to opt out again in the future is risky.

That said, canceling could be smart for anyone whose situation has changed (in terms of expected number of years remaining to work in WA and / or projected future income) or is already in a more marginal situation, e.g. their existing policy is already expensive, uncertain how long they will stay working in WA, projected income combined with expected number of years working in WA is not high enough to make it a slam dunk, etc.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by johan851 »

I had multiple applications in flight - one that was completed by Nov 1st for ~$700/yr, and another that just finished underwriting after nearly eight months. The second one is currently slightly cheaper.

I probably have the option on the second policy to change the coverage to reduce the cost significantly. Is there any risk in reducing the coverage on the second policy and dropping the first? The current situation is pretty confusing, I have the opt-out but if I'm going to continue holding an LTC policy for a while I'd like to reduce the cost if possible.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

johan851 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:39 am I probably have the option on the second policy to change the coverage to reduce the cost significantly. Is there any risk in reducing the coverage on the second policy and dropping the first? The current situation is pretty confusing, I have the opt-out but if I'm going to continue holding an LTC policy for a while I'd like to reduce the cost if possible.
So long as you meet the criteria, I don't think there's any risk. I got the cheapest plan I could find and so far it's working.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

johan851 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:39 am I had multiple applications in flight - one that was completed by Nov 1st for ~$700/yr, and another that just finished underwriting after nearly eight months. The second one is currently slightly cheaper.

I probably have the option on the second policy to change the coverage to reduce the cost significantly. Is there any risk in reducing the coverage on the second policy and dropping the first? The current situation is pretty confusing, I have the opt-out but if I'm going to continue holding an LTC policy for a while I'd like to reduce the cost if possible.
As long as you had a LTCi policy, any policy, in force on 11/1/2021, you met the legal requirements for permanently opting out of the tax. I would recommend that you keep that policy for now, even if it's more expensive.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:48 am
johan851 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:39 am I had multiple applications in flight - one that was completed by Nov 1st for ~$700/yr, and another that just finished underwriting after nearly eight months. The second one is currently slightly cheaper.

I probably have the option on the second policy to change the coverage to reduce the cost significantly. Is there any risk in reducing the coverage on the second policy and dropping the first? The current situation is pretty confusing, I have the opt-out but if I'm going to continue holding an LTC policy for a while I'd like to reduce the cost if possible.
As long as you had a LTCi policy, any policy, in force on 11/1/2021, you met the legal requirements for permanently opting out of the tax. I would recommend that you keep that policy for now, even if it's more expensive.
You think it's risky in reducing the coverage (assuming it still meets the criteria)?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by johan851 »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:48 amAs long as you had a LTCi policy, any policy, in force on 11/1/2021, you met the legal requirements for permanently opting out of the tax. I would recommend that you keep that policy for now, even if it's more expensive.
This is really my question - not risk in reducing the coverage amount, but whether it's risky to drop the policy that was in force on Nov 1st in favor of a second policy that came into effect after the deadline.

I could still prove continuous coverage if I had to, of course, and I'd let them overlap for a bit.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

johan851 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:51 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:48 amAs long as you had a LTCi policy, any policy, in force on 11/1/2021, you met the legal requirements for permanently opting out of the tax. I would recommend that you keep that policy for now, even if it's more expensive.
This is really my question - not risk in reducing the coverage amount, but whether it's risky to drop the policy that was in force on Nov 1st in favor of a second policy that came into effect after the deadline.

I could still prove continuous coverage if I had to, of course, and I'd let them overlap for a bit.
Oh geez, I assumed the 2nd one was backdated to 11/1/21; if that's not the case, I'd keep the first policy.
johan851
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by johan851 »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:54 amOh geez, I assumed the 2nd one was backdated to 11/1/21; if that's not the case, I'd keep the first policy.
I applied in May 2021, the effective date is 02/01/2022. :?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:54 am
johan851 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:51 am
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:48 amAs long as you had a LTCi policy, any policy, in force on 11/1/2021, you met the legal requirements for permanently opting out of the tax. I would recommend that you keep that policy for now, even if it's more expensive.
This is really my question - not risk in reducing the coverage amount, but whether it's risky to drop the policy that was in force on Nov 1st in favor of a second policy that came into effect after the deadline.

I could still prove continuous coverage if I had to, of course, and I'd let them overlap for a bit.
Oh geez, I assumed the 2nd one was backdated to 11/1/21; if that's not the case, I'd keep the first policy.
That was my point and recommendation too.
johan851 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:57 am
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:54 amOh geez, I assumed the 2nd one was backdated to 11/1/21; if that's not the case, I'd keep the first policy.
I applied in May 2021, the effective date is 02/01/2022. :?
Yes, that policy does literally nothing at all within the confines of the law.

Granted, you could have dropped the first policy on 11/2/2021 and still met the legal requirement for the opt out, but the risk of the law being changed in a disadvantageous way seems too high to justify cancelling that policy yet. I'd plan on at least waiting until the law is implemented in 18 months.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by johan851 »

Great, thanks. Bit of a bummer given the hassle of the second policy, but I'm happy to drop it.

Unfortunate that I have to apparently hang on to the first for 18 months now, but it's still worth it in the longer run. And hopefully we'll have some clarity in a few months here.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

johan851 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:51 pm Great, thanks. Bit of a bummer given the hassle of the second policy, but I'm happy to drop it.

Unfortunate that I have to apparently hang on to the first for 18 months now, but it's still worth it in the longer run. And hopefully we'll have some clarity in a few months here.
I wouldn't count on us getting any more clarity anytime soon. Implementation of the law has been a mess, and that mess is far from sorted out.
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johan851
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by johan851 »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:55 pmI wouldn't count on us getting any more clarity anytime soon. Implementation of the law has been a mess, and that mess is far from sorted out.
Yeah, I think this is an appropriate check of my optimism. :D
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

johan851 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:57 am
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 11:54 amOh geez, I assumed the 2nd one was backdated to 11/1/21; if that's not the case, I'd keep the first policy.
I applied in May 2021, the effective date is 02/01/2022. :?
You may be able to ask the company to backdate the policy date to 10/28/21, that is what Nationwide is doing. I'm surprised that your insurer isn't doing that as they should know a policy dated 2/1/22 would be useless for the tax.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by johan851 »

BruDude wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:09 pmYou may be able to ask the company to backdate the policy date to 10/28/21, that is what Nationwide is doing. I'm surprised that your insurer isn't doing that as they should know a policy dated 2/1/22 would be useless for the tax.
Sure, doesn't hurt to ask.

Edit: Genworth (the provider of the second policy) won't backdate it, making this policy useless. So now after working on it for months I'm immediately cancelling it. :beer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

BruDude wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:17 pm If anyone is still waiting on a Nationwide policy to be issued, you better call them immediately. I was just told that any policies not placed in force by January 31 will be terminated and the policies won't be issued. They sent no official communication about it to agents or applicants, only to internal departments and case managers. This is 100% Nationwide's fault, there is no reason for their January 31 deadline other the fact that they don't want to deal with this anymore. I still have 5 policies pending waiting to be issued and am beyond livid right now that they would do this to the people who applied 6 months ago before the August application deadline that Nationwide set. Absolutely absurd.
Nationwide is fumbling around with a handful of my policies, still. I sent them about 70 applications. 5 more left to complete processing. For some stoopid reason 2 of the last ones were sent "snail-mail" when every other policy has been an eDelivery/DocuSign. The cases with "outstanding requirements" are the ones that are closing, not ones that are caught up with the requirements. Those are still being processed.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:21 pm
BruDude wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:17 pm If anyone is still waiting on a Nationwide policy to be issued, you better call them immediately. I was just told that any policies not placed in force by January 31 will be terminated and the policies won't be issued. They sent no official communication about it to agents or applicants, only to internal departments and case managers. This is 100% Nationwide's fault, there is no reason for their January 31 deadline other the fact that they don't want to deal with this anymore. I still have 5 policies pending waiting to be issued and am beyond livid right now that they would do this to the people who applied 6 months ago before the August application deadline that Nationwide set. Absolutely absurd.
Nationwide is fumbling around with a handful of my policies, still. I sent them about 70 applications. 5 more left to complete processing. For some stoopid reason 2 of the last ones were sent "snail-mail" when every other policy has been an eDelivery/DocuSign. The cases with "outstanding requirements" are the ones that are closing, not ones that are caught up with the requirements. Those are still being processed.
I had to go back and forth with them for a week to get them to allow the policies to be issued after January 31. Still waiting on 4 of them. Now they've screwed up the quote illustrations again and want the clients to sign them for a third time. Some policies have been sent by DocuSign, some I never got a copy of. Their communication from start to finish has been awful.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

BruDude wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:28 pm
RoyHobbs9 wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:21 pm
BruDude wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:17 pm If anyone is still waiting on a Nationwide policy to be issued, you better call them immediately. I was just told that any policies not placed in force by January 31 will be terminated and the policies won't be issued. They sent no official communication about it to agents or applicants, only to internal departments and case managers. This is 100% Nationwide's fault, there is no reason for their January 31 deadline other the fact that they don't want to deal with this anymore. I still have 5 policies pending waiting to be issued and am beyond livid right now that they would do this to the people who applied 6 months ago before the August application deadline that Nationwide set. Absolutely absurd.
Nationwide is fumbling around with a handful of my policies, still. I sent them about 70 applications. 5 more left to complete processing. For some stoopid reason 2 of the last ones were sent "snail-mail" when every other policy has been an eDelivery/DocuSign. The cases with "outstanding requirements" are the ones that are closing, not ones that are caught up with the requirements. Those are still being processed.
I had to go back and forth with them for a week to get them to allow the policies to be issued after January 31. Still waiting on 4 of them. Now they've screwed up the quote illustrations again and want the clients to sign them for a third time. Some policies have been sent by DocuSign, some I never got a copy of. Their communication from start to finish has been awful.
Yep, that sounds about right. They should have hired a call/email service. Hopefully, whenever the next state adopts a tax like this, the companies will be ready. They auto-declines for those that have a Physical Therapy or Chiropractic history was completely ridiculous, and that was before they even got buried.

They only companies that did okay were the captive agencies due to everything being in-house.

Transamerica was completely worthless, I just gave up on them. OneAmerica was slow, but at least they got back to you on inquiries. MoO pulled the plug on 2 of my clients the day they were going to put them in-force.

What do you think the landscape will be like in WA in for the next couple years when it comes to LTC? Will the carriers that "left" come back?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:09 pm
BruDude wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:28 pm
RoyHobbs9 wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:21 pm
BruDude wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 6:17 pm If anyone is still waiting on a Nationwide policy to be issued, you better call them immediately. I was just told that any policies not placed in force by January 31 will be terminated and the policies won't be issued. They sent no official communication about it to agents or applicants, only to internal departments and case managers. This is 100% Nationwide's fault, there is no reason for their January 31 deadline other the fact that they don't want to deal with this anymore. I still have 5 policies pending waiting to be issued and am beyond livid right now that they would do this to the people who applied 6 months ago before the August application deadline that Nationwide set. Absolutely absurd.
Nationwide is fumbling around with a handful of my policies, still. I sent them about 70 applications. 5 more left to complete processing. For some stoopid reason 2 of the last ones were sent "snail-mail" when every other policy has been an eDelivery/DocuSign. The cases with "outstanding requirements" are the ones that are closing, not ones that are caught up with the requirements. Those are still being processed.
I had to go back and forth with them for a week to get them to allow the policies to be issued after January 31. Still waiting on 4 of them. Now they've screwed up the quote illustrations again and want the clients to sign them for a third time. Some policies have been sent by DocuSign, some I never got a copy of. Their communication from start to finish has been awful.
Yep, that sounds about right. They should have hired a call/email service. Hopefully, whenever the next state adopts a tax like this, the companies will be ready. They auto-declines for those that have a Physical Therapy or Chiropractic history was completely ridiculous, and that was before they even got buried.

They only companies that did okay were the captive agencies due to everything being in-house.

Transamerica was completely worthless, I just gave up on them. OneAmerica was slow, but at least they got back to you on inquiries. MoO pulled the plug on 2 of my clients the day they were going to put them in-force.

What do you think the landscape will be like in WA in for the next couple years when it comes to LTC? Will the carriers that "left" come back?

They are all selling in Washington again. Every company that had stopped selling in WA is now selling in WA.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
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