Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by LadyGeek »

Upon further review, the posts regarding a potential delay to implement the WA Cares payroll tax have been restored.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by LadyGeek »

As stated in other threads, speculation about future legislation is prohibited by forum policy.
...The whole point of the policy is to (1) eliminate contentious disagreements that result from these discussions and (2) keep investors from making bad decisions. Proposed legislation changes many times between the time it's introduced and signed into law.

The best approach is to make your decision about current law. When the law changes, make your decision at that time.
In this case, nothing has (yet) made it's way into the WA state legislative process. However, the governor and legislators (politicians) are discussing a possible change to the law. This makes the discussion political in nature and is a first step towards proposing a change in law.

Further discussion of the pending change is off-topic.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by geek1 »

BoglerAnon wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:51 pm Was out of town for a bit and returned home to a surprise, not one, but two LTCI policy packets in the mail - Transamerica and Trustmark. Both via one of the large tech employers in the state. Hadn't heard a thing from Transamerica, but I guess it went through all the same. Already applied and got my exemption letter, so now I have to figure out which policy to keep and could some some help confirming my choice.
Also ended up getting Transamerica in the rush to get anything, just to get an exemption.
But, instead of choosing between several policies now, I'm wondering if it makes sense to keep it at all. As written today, law specifies that you need insurance to get an exemption, but once exemption is granted it is permanent. There's no requirement to keep insurance coverage.

Surrender fee is non-trivial (3300), but it's reasonable as a one-time tax-avoidance cost and removes the 1320/year in premium for a mediocre product I don't need. Perhaps waiting until January to see the tax actually go into effect first.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

LadyGeek wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:41 pm
In this case, nothing has (yet) made it's way into the WA state legislative process. However, the governor and legislators (politicians) are discussing a possible change to the law. This makes the discussion political in nature and is a first step towards proposing a change in law.
You're 100% correct, LadyGeek. They are also discussing other changes which have not yet made their way into the WA state legislative process because the legislature is not in session, such as:
[OT comments removed by admin LadyGeek]
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by LadyGeek »

As noted in my prior post:
LadyGeek wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:41 pm Further discussion of the pending change is off-topic.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.

The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Sprucebark »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.

The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
This is the first of its kind.

Here are the list of “no income states” for your review. If you scratch Washington off the list for this 0.58% income tax, you have 8 places you could move to-

Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Sprucebark wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:50 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.

The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
This is the first of its kind.

Here are the list of “no income states” for your review. If you scratch Washington off the list for this 0.58% income tax, you have 8 places you could move to-

Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming
Thanks. I've looked at Dallas seriously at one point but ended up not moving. It's wait-n-see at this point but something I might have to reconsider.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by OrangeKiwi »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.

The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
WA has had a 0.4% family leave act W-2 income tax since Jan 1, 2019 (for funding parental leave, sick leave, and taking care of someone else leave).

This report might be helpful as it breaks down effective tax rates by income quintile, although it is a bit outdated since it was last updated Oct 2018:

https://itep.org/whopays/
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

OrangeKiwi wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:33 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.

The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
WA has had a 0.4% family leave act W-2 income tax since Jan 1, 2019 (for funding parental leave, sick leave, and taking care of someone else leave).
You're right, my pay statement has it deducted. I guess we aren't really a no income tax state then... :oops:
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Sprucebark »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:37 pm
OrangeKiwi wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:33 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.

The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
WA has had a 0.4% family leave act W-2 income tax since Jan 1, 2019 (for funding parental leave, sick leave, and taking care of someone else leave).
You're right, my pay statement has it deducted. I guess we aren't really a no income tax state then... :oops:
Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Sprucebark wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
Well, I was curious if other states like Texas pull something similar. I do have a LTCI coverage so it's not 0.58% in full, but some of my money goes to the policy instead.

You're correct that 0.4% isn't terrible, but if other "no income tax" states don't have any strings attached, then they might come across as appealing.

While I like WA being a great tech hub, I can't say I like the weather here much. It's probably not worth a move though, I agree.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Whakamole »

Sprucebark wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:37 pm
OrangeKiwi wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:33 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.

The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
WA has had a 0.4% family leave act W-2 income tax since Jan 1, 2019 (for funding parental leave, sick leave, and taking care of someone else leave).
You're right, my pay statement has it deducted. I guess we aren't really a no income tax state then... :oops:
Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
We're also getting a capital gains tax next year - currently 7% if >$250K of gains: https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/other-ta ... -gains-tax
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Two months later and we are still waiting for Nationwide to issue policies that were approved in late September/early October. They are "working on it" but won't provide any individual updates.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Whakamole wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:33 pm We're also getting a capital gains tax next year - currently 7% if >$250K of gains: https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/other-ta ... -gains-tax
I think the temperatures amongst "no income tax" states are different.

Some states are firmly NO income tax states, some states are "*no income tax" with an asterisk.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

Sprucebark wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
I agree that 1%, and more like .5% for us since we were able to opt out of the LTC tax very cheaply, isn't bad. I certainly don't lose sleep over it. Our property taxes are a bit high relative to some locales, but we pay no sales tax on food, one of our largest monthly expenses, and our utilities are about the cheapest in the nation since they're nearly all local hydro. So overall, I'm still very happy with our total state tax situation.

Also, don't confuse western WA's weather with that of the rest of the state. On the east side of the Olympic mountains, the state's climate is dramatically different. Around Spokane, we only get 18" of precipitation annually and get four very real and distinct seasons. We're actually under a winter weather advisory right now, and we have essentially blizzard conditions outside right now. Excellent skiing is just around the corner! :D
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

BruDude wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:45 pm Two months later and we are still waiting for Nationwide to issue policies that were approved in late September/early October. They are "working on it" but won't provide any individual updates.
I'm in the same boat, as well as 21 more people that I work with. I think Nationwide should at least hire on a temp service like www.conversioncalls.com. In fact, screw it. I'm sending Nationwide's contact info to conversioncalls right now. This is ridiculous. 21 cases that have been approved for months and they can't even set them up for eDelivery (DocuSign). It shouldn't take longer than a minute to set that up.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:12 pm
Sprucebark wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
I agree that 1%, and more like .5% for us since we were able to opt out of the LTC tax very cheaply, isn't bad. I certainly don't lose sleep over it. Our property taxes are a bit high relative to some locales, but we pay no sales tax on food, one of our largest monthly expenses, and our utilities are about the cheapest in the nation since they're nearly all local hydro. So overall, I'm still very happy with our total state tax situation.

Also, don't confuse western WA's weather with that of the rest of the state. On the east side of the Olympic mountains, the state's climate is dramatically different. Around Spokane, we only get 18" of precipitation annually and get four very real and distinct seasons. We're actually under a winter weather advisory right now, and we have essentially blizzard conditions outside right now. Excellent skiing is just around the corner! :D
Just make sure you make the short move to Idaho before you die.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:06 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:12 pm
Sprucebark wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
I agree that 1%, and more like .5% for us since we were able to opt out of the LTC tax very cheaply, isn't bad. I certainly don't lose sleep over it. Our property taxes are a bit high relative to some locales, but we pay no sales tax on food, one of our largest monthly expenses, and our utilities are about the cheapest in the nation since they're nearly all local hydro. So overall, I'm still very happy with our total state tax situation.

Also, don't confuse western WA's weather with that of the rest of the state. On the east side of the Olympic mountains, the state's climate is dramatically different. Around Spokane, we only get 18" of precipitation annually and get four very real and distinct seasons. We're actually under a winter weather advisory right now, and we have essentially blizzard conditions outside right now. Excellent skiing is just around the corner! :D
Just make sure you make the short move to Idaho before you die.
We shouldn't be impacted by WA's estate tax.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:45 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:45 pm Two months later and we are still waiting for Nationwide to issue policies that were approved in late September/early October. They are "working on it" but won't provide any individual updates.
I'm in the same boat, as well as 21 more people that I work with. I think Nationwide should at least hire on a temp service like www.conversioncalls.com. In fact, screw it. I'm sending Nationwide's contact info to conversioncalls right now. This is ridiculous. 21 cases that have been approved for months and they can't even set them up for eDelivery (DocuSign). It shouldn't take longer than a minute to set that up.
I have about 15 of them waiting to be issued, which also means I don't get paid until they are issued and signed, so I would like for that to happen...maybe by the time 2026 rolls around. Oddly enough I had one single policy get issued and placed, but none of the others that were submitted and approved long before that one. Meanwhile I am also waiting on the IRS to process my amended tax return for over 6 months from which they owe me a fairly substantial refund. Time for me to start charging interest!
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tj »

BruDude wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:23 pm
RoyHobbs9 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:45 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:45 pm Two months later and we are still waiting for Nationwide to issue policies that were approved in late September/early October. They are "working on it" but won't provide any individual updates.
I'm in the same boat, as well as 21 more people that I work with. I think Nationwide should at least hire on a temp service like www.conversioncalls.com. In fact, screw it. I'm sending Nationwide's contact info to conversioncalls right now. This is ridiculous. 21 cases that have been approved for months and they can't even set them up for eDelivery (DocuSign). It shouldn't take longer than a minute to set that up.
I have about 15 of them waiting to be issued, which also means I don't get paid until they are issued and signed, so I would like for that to happen...maybe by the time 2026 rolls around. Oddly enough I had one single policy get issued and placed, but none of the others that were submitted and approved long before that one. Meanwhile I am also waiting on the IRS to process my amended tax return for over 6 months from which they owe me a fairly substantial refund. Time for me to start charging interest!
You don't have to charge interest. The IRS will include it all on their own. ;-)
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

tj wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:59 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:23 pm
RoyHobbs9 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:45 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:45 pm Two months later and we are still waiting for Nationwide to issue policies that were approved in late September/early October. They are "working on it" but won't provide any individual updates.
I'm in the same boat, as well as 21 more people that I work with. I think Nationwide should at least hire on a temp service like www.conversioncalls.com. In fact, screw it. I'm sending Nationwide's contact info to conversioncalls right now. This is ridiculous. 21 cases that have been approved for months and they can't even set them up for eDelivery (DocuSign). It shouldn't take longer than a minute to set that up.
I have about 15 of them waiting to be issued, which also means I don't get paid until they are issued and signed, so I would like for that to happen...maybe by the time 2026 rolls around. Oddly enough I had one single policy get issued and placed, but none of the others that were submitted and approved long before that one. Meanwhile I am also waiting on the IRS to process my amended tax return for over 6 months from which they owe me a fairly substantial refund. Time for me to start charging interest!
You don't have to charge interest. The IRS will include it all on their own. ;-)
I’m going to charge them 200% interest for the money I didn’t make on crypto that I would’ve if I got my refund on time. I’m sure they will be happy to pay it.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by iamlucky13 »

I see several comments regarding delays in receiving Nationwide policies. Has anyone seen the same for Trustmark?

I've been really busy, and paperwork nobody asked for was not high on my priorities, so I finally got around today to trying to submit the exemption request based on the policy I was approved and my card charged for back in October, only to realize that unless I lost some mail, the most recent contact I have from Trustmark was an email saying my policy is in the mail.

Plus, every single link (eg - click here to login) in every single email I have from them redirects to a "This link has expired" page, and their customer service rep informed me they weren't really to the correct site anyways (correct domain, wrong subsite).

In light of the not exactly stellar communication so far, I'm left doubting my original presumption that I lost the mail, and hoping that they simply haven't sent it yet.

Once I did finally receive the correct web address for creating an online account, I did find I have a policy number and effective date I can print out if needed to show the state, but I still haven't found a copy of the policy.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by johan851 »

A question for you all (and maybe it's already answered in the thread and I missed it...)

I managed to get a Trustmark policy by the deadline, which was fortunate because my two other applications moved incredibly slowly. I now have a Genworth policy still in flight that'll probably cost half as much.

If I take the Genworth policy and cancel the Trustmark policy, is there a risk that I'll lose eligibility? Does anyone know what I'd have to show to prove I had an LTC policy in force since the deadline?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

iamlucky13 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:30 pm I see several comments regarding delays in receiving Nationwide policies. Has anyone seen the same for Trustmark?

I've been really busy, and paperwork nobody asked for was not high on my priorities, so I finally got around today to trying to submit the exemption request based on the policy I was approved and my card charged for back in October, only to realize that unless I lost some mail, the most recent contact I have from Trustmark was an email saying my policy is in the mail.

Plus, every single link (eg - click here to login) in every single email I have from them redirects to a "This link has expired" page, and their customer service rep informed me they weren't really to the correct site anyways (correct domain, wrong subsite).

In light of the not exactly stellar communication so far, I'm left doubting my original presumption that I lost the mail, and hoping that they simply haven't sent it yet.

Once I did finally receive the correct web address for creating an online account, I did find I have a policy number and effective date I can print out if needed to show the state, but I still haven't found a copy of the policy.
Trustmark was actually fairly quick at getting the paper policies to us through the snail mail. 3 to 4 weeks, IIRC.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

Just an update from the ESD. . . As of 12/10, 443,649 exemptions have been filed, 397,217 of them have been approved.

The state actuaries predicted only 95K exemptions. :shock:
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Whakamole »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:57 pm Just an update from the ESD. . . As of 12/10, 443,649 exemptions have been filed, 397,217 of them have been approved.

The state actuaries predicted only 95K exemptions. :shock:
Maybe the tax rate will go up to compensate for all the exemptions.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by CardinalRule »

willthrill81 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:12 pm
Sprucebark wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
I agree that 1%, and more like .5% for us since we were able to opt out of the LTC tax very cheaply, isn't bad. I certainly don't lose sleep over it. Our property taxes are a bit high relative to some locales, but we pay no sales tax on food, one of our largest monthly expenses, and our utilities are about the cheapest in the nation since they're nearly all local hydro. So overall, I'm still very happy with our total state tax situation.

Also, don't confuse western WA's weather with that of the rest of the state. On the east side of the Olympic mountains, the state's climate is dramatically different. Around Spokane, we only get 18" of precipitation annually and get four very real and distinct seasons. We're actually under a winter weather advisory right now, and we have essentially blizzard conditions outside right now. Excellent skiing is just around the corner! :D
I am sure you meant the Cascades. :wink: There is definitely a climate difference, although I much prefer the splendid summers of the western side, short as they are. I also like how mild the winters are - if only it weren’t so gloomy. :(

I got my Trustmark policies (I was able to get one for DW at work as well) quickly and canceled the Transamerica arrangement within the allotted 30 days. I received a written confirmation from Transamerica, but I think I am owed a refund.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Kookaburra »

Whakamole wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:43 pm
RoyHobbs9 wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 5:57 pm Just an update from the ESD. . . As of 12/10, 443,649 exemptions have been filed, 397,217 of them have been approved.

The state actuaries predicted only 95K exemptions. :shock:
Maybe the tax rate will go up to compensate for all the exemptions.
Bingo! This is already happening on the PFML side of things, with the tax rate increasing from 0.4% to 0.6% starting in 2022. These low tax rates (oops, I mean, “premiums”) are just teaser rates to get the legislation passed without political suicide … then the rates go up when the programs inevitably become insolvent.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

CardinalRule wrote: Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:53 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:12 pm
Sprucebark wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
I agree that 1%, and more like .5% for us since we were able to opt out of the LTC tax very cheaply, isn't bad. I certainly don't lose sleep over it. Our property taxes are a bit high relative to some locales, but we pay no sales tax on food, one of our largest monthly expenses, and our utilities are about the cheapest in the nation since they're nearly all local hydro. So overall, I'm still very happy with our total state tax situation.

Also, don't confuse western WA's weather with that of the rest of the state. On the east side of the Olympic mountains, the state's climate is dramatically different. Around Spokane, we only get 18" of precipitation annually and get four very real and distinct seasons. We're actually under a winter weather advisory right now, and we have essentially blizzard conditions outside right now. Excellent skiing is just around the corner! :D
I am sure you meant the Cascades. :wink: There is definitely a climate difference, although I much prefer the splendid summers of the western side, short as they are. I also like how mild the winters are - if only it weren’t so gloomy. :(
Yes, I meant the Cascades. :thumbsup
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CardinalRule
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by CardinalRule »

And now the "brakes" are on for this.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... term-care/
johan851
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by johan851 »

CardinalRule wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:42 pm And now the "brakes" are on for this.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... term-care/
Thanks! And yet again, I don't know entirely what this means... But I'm already paying for LTC.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:

https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Now that Governor Inslee made an official statement, it is OK to discuss this right?

Based on my quick glance, this got pp'ed till April 2022 the earliest?
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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:59 pm Now that Governor Inslee made an official statement, it is OK to discuss this right?
lolol, one of the worst rules on this site.

Officially, the law has not changed. Inslee just isn't enforcing it. So technically we still can't talk about it here?!?!
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Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:54 pm The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:

https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
yes, it foreshadows interesting bits:
Pausing the program so that it can better serve disabled veterans, military spouses, non-residents, and near retirees will improve the program. A pause will also give the Long Term Care Commission the ability to study and make recommendations about residents who move out of Washington to retire and assure that those who have opted out of the program maintain their private insurance policies.
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
Whakamole
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Whakamole »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:07 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:54 pm The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:

https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
yes, it foreshadows interesting bits:
Pausing the program so that it can better serve disabled veterans, military spouses, non-residents, and near retirees will improve the program. A pause will also give the Long Term Care Commission the ability to study and make recommendations about residents who move out of Washington to retire and assure that those who have opted out of the program maintain their private insurance policies.
Great. we may continue to pay for worthless policies in order to avoid a worthless tax.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:43 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:07 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:54 pm The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:

https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
yes, it foreshadows interesting bits:
Pausing the program so that it can better serve disabled veterans, military spouses, non-residents, and near retirees will improve the program. A pause will also give the Long Term Care Commission the ability to study and make recommendations about residents who move out of Washington to retire and assure that those who have opted out of the program maintain their private insurance policies.
Great. we may continue to pay for worthless policies in order to avoid a worthless tax.
Your policy's not worthless.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Whakamole
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Whakamole »

WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:49 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:43 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:07 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:54 pm The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:

https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
yes, it foreshadows interesting bits:
Pausing the program so that it can better serve disabled veterans, military spouses, non-residents, and near retirees will improve the program. A pause will also give the Long Term Care Commission the ability to study and make recommendations about residents who move out of Washington to retire and assure that those who have opted out of the program maintain their private insurance policies.
Great. we may continue to pay for worthless policies in order to avoid a worthless tax.
Your policy's not worthless.
I am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.

To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:59 pm Now that Governor Inslee made an official statement, it is OK to discuss this right?

Based on my quick glance, this got pp'ed till April 2022 the earliest?
I believe that this falls under the forum's policy that it's alright to discuss 'enacted regulations', but I don't know. I was recently informed that telling someone that a topic might get a thread locked was somehow 'acting like a mod', so perhaps your question and my response are prohibited. It's rather confusing.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:04 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:49 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:43 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:07 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:54 pm The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:

https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
yes, it foreshadows interesting bits:
Pausing the program so that it can better serve disabled veterans, military spouses, non-residents, and near retirees will improve the program. A pause will also give the Long Term Care Commission the ability to study and make recommendations about residents who move out of Washington to retire and assure that those who have opted out of the program maintain their private insurance policies.
Great. we may continue to pay for worthless policies in order to avoid a worthless tax.
Your policy's not worthless.
I am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.

To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
If you need to make a claim, you'll get back A LOT more than you paid in premium. That's the opposite of worthless, in my view.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Whakamole
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Whakamole »

WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:12 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:04 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:49 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:43 pm
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:07 pm

yes, it foreshadows interesting bits:

Great. we may continue to pay for worthless policies in order to avoid a worthless tax.
Your policy's not worthless.
I am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.

To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
If you need to make a claim, you'll get back A LOT more than you paid in premium. That's the opposite of worthless, in my view.
I do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:

https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/
Yet when it comes to long-term care needs in today’s environment, what was perhaps once a higher-cost lower-probability event has now turned into a very high-probability event with an increasingly large volume of “lower-cost” claims. As a result, long-term care insurance has begun to morph from effective insurance, into something that looks more like just prepaying long-term care expenses in advance at a high premium rate and with little insurance leverage.
I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:31 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:12 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:04 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:49 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:43 pm

Great. we may continue to pay for worthless policies in order to avoid a worthless tax.
Your policy's not worthless.
I am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.

To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
If you need to make a claim, you'll get back A LOT more than you paid in premium. That's the opposite of worthless, in my view.
I do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:

https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/
Yet when it comes to long-term care needs in today’s environment, what was perhaps once a higher-cost lower-probability event has now turned into a very high-probability event with an increasingly large volume of “lower-cost” claims. As a result, long-term care insurance has begun to morph from effective insurance, into something that looks more like just prepaying long-term care expenses in advance at a high premium rate and with little insurance leverage.
I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.

You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.

Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.

Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:54 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:31 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:12 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:04 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:49 pm

Your policy's not worthless.
I am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.

To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
If you need to make a claim, you'll get back A LOT more than you paid in premium. That's the opposite of worthless, in my view.
I do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:

https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/
Yet when it comes to long-term care needs in today’s environment, what was perhaps once a higher-cost lower-probability event has now turned into a very high-probability event with an increasingly large volume of “lower-cost” claims. As a result, long-term care insurance has begun to morph from effective insurance, into something that looks more like just prepaying long-term care expenses in advance at a high premium rate and with little insurance leverage.
I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.

You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.

Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.

Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

truenyer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:00 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:54 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:31 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:12 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:04 pm

I am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.

To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
If you need to make a claim, you'll get back A LOT more than you paid in premium. That's the opposite of worthless, in my view.
I do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:

https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/
Yet when it comes to long-term care needs in today’s environment, what was perhaps once a higher-cost lower-probability event has now turned into a very high-probability event with an increasingly large volume of “lower-cost” claims. As a result, long-term care insurance has begun to morph from effective insurance, into something that looks more like just prepaying long-term care expenses in advance at a high premium rate and with little insurance leverage.
I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.

You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.

Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.

Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.
$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.
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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:03 pm
truenyer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:00 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:54 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:31 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:12 pm

If you need to make a claim, you'll get back A LOT more than you paid in premium. That's the opposite of worthless, in my view.
I do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:

https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/
Yet when it comes to long-term care needs in today’s environment, what was perhaps once a higher-cost lower-probability event has now turned into a very high-probability event with an increasingly large volume of “lower-cost” claims. As a result, long-term care insurance has begun to morph from effective insurance, into something that looks more like just prepaying long-term care expenses in advance at a high premium rate and with little insurance leverage.
I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.

You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.

Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.

Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.
$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.
Two things:
1) We weren't buying a plan to actually fully-fund our needs, because in the end we were still buying a plan to get out of the tax.
2) 5% yearly compounded inflation adds up very quickly.
Whakamole
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Whakamole »

truenyer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:05 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:03 pm
truenyer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:00 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:54 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:31 pm

I do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:

https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/


I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.

You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.

Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.

Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.
$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.
Two things:
1) We weren't buying a plan to actually fully-fund our needs, because in the end we were still buying a plan to get out of the tax.
2) 5% yearly compounded inflation adds up very quickly.
How does it compare with investing $1200/year until the time when a policy would be needed?
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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:09 pm
truenyer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:05 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:03 pm
truenyer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:00 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:54 pm


You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.

Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.

Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.
$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.
Two things:
1) We weren't buying a plan to actually fully-fund our needs, because in the end we were still buying a plan to get out of the tax.
2) 5% yearly compounded inflation adds up very quickly.
How does it compare with investing $1200/year until the time when a policy would be needed?
For each person ($600) investing that over 35 years with an annual return of 11% (crazy, right) results in $300k.

The value of each of our LTC policies (total benefit amount) at that time will be $371k.
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willthrill81
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

truenyer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:18 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:09 pm
truenyer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:05 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:03 pm
truenyer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:00 pm

I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.
$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.
Two things:
1) We weren't buying a plan to actually fully-fund our needs, because in the end we were still buying a plan to get out of the tax.
2) 5% yearly compounded inflation adds up very quickly.
How does it compare with investing $1200/year until the time when a policy would be needed?
For each person ($600) investing that over 35 years with an annual return of 11% (crazy, right) results in $300k.

The value of each of our LTC policies (total benefit amount) at that time will be $371k.
No, the maximum benefit of the LTC policies would be $371k, not their value (i.e., financial worth to you).
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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

willthrill81 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:21 pm
truenyer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:18 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:09 pm
truenyer wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:05 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:03 pm

$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.
Two things:
1) We weren't buying a plan to actually fully-fund our needs, because in the end we were still buying a plan to get out of the tax.
2) 5% yearly compounded inflation adds up very quickly.
How does it compare with investing $1200/year until the time when a policy would be needed?
For each person ($600) investing that over 35 years with an annual return of 11% (crazy, right) results in $300k.

The value of each of our LTC policies (total benefit amount) at that time will be $371k.
No, the maximum benefit of the LTC policies would be $371k, not their value (i.e., financial worth to you).
I didn't mean to say that the value is recoverable. Obviously it is not. That's the risk of insurance in general.
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