Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Upon further review, the posts regarding a potential delay to implement the WA Cares payroll tax have been restored.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
As stated in other threads, speculation about future legislation is prohibited by forum policy.
Further discussion of the pending change is off-topic.
In this case, nothing has (yet) made it's way into the WA state legislative process. However, the governor and legislators (politicians) are discussing a possible change to the law. This makes the discussion political in nature and is a first step towards proposing a change in law....The whole point of the policy is to (1) eliminate contentious disagreements that result from these discussions and (2) keep investors from making bad decisions. Proposed legislation changes many times between the time it's introduced and signed into law.
The best approach is to make your decision about current law. When the law changes, make your decision at that time.
Further discussion of the pending change is off-topic.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Also ended up getting Transamerica in the rush to get anything, just to get an exemption.BoglerAnon wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:51 pm Was out of town for a bit and returned home to a surprise, not one, but two LTCI policy packets in the mail - Transamerica and Trustmark. Both via one of the large tech employers in the state. Hadn't heard a thing from Transamerica, but I guess it went through all the same. Already applied and got my exemption letter, so now I have to figure out which policy to keep and could some some help confirming my choice.
But, instead of choosing between several policies now, I'm wondering if it makes sense to keep it at all. As written today, law specifies that you need insurance to get an exemption, but once exemption is granted it is permanent. There's no requirement to keep insurance coverage.
Surrender fee is non-trivial (3300), but it's reasonable as a one-time tax-avoidance cost and removes the 1320/year in premium for a mediocre product I don't need. Perhaps waiting until January to see the tax actually go into effect first.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
You're 100% correct, LadyGeek. They are also discussing other changes which have not yet made their way into the WA state legislative process because the legislature is not in session, such as:LadyGeek wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:41 pm
In this case, nothing has (yet) made it's way into the WA state legislative process. However, the governor and legislators (politicians) are discussing a possible change to the law. This makes the discussion political in nature and is a first step towards proposing a change in law.
[OT comments removed by admin LadyGeek]
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
As noted in my prior post:
-
- Posts: 16054
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.
The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
-
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:22 pm
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
This is the first of its kind.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.
The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
Here are the list of “no income states” for your review. If you scratch Washington off the list for this 0.58% income tax, you have 8 places you could move to-
Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming
-
- Posts: 16054
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Thanks. I've looked at Dallas seriously at one point but ended up not moving. It's wait-n-see at this point but something I might have to reconsider.Sprucebark wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:50 pmThis is the first of its kind.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.
The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
Here are the list of “no income states” for your review. If you scratch Washington off the list for this 0.58% income tax, you have 8 places you could move to-
Alaska, Florida, Nevada, New Hampshire, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and Wyoming
-
- Posts: 304
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:10 pm
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
WA has had a 0.4% family leave act W-2 income tax since Jan 1, 2019 (for funding parental leave, sick leave, and taking care of someone else leave).Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.
The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
This report might be helpful as it breaks down effective tax rates by income quintile, although it is a bit outdated since it was last updated Oct 2018:
https://itep.org/whopays/
-
- Posts: 16054
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
You're right, my pay statement has it deducted. I guess we aren't really a no income tax state then...OrangeKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:33 pmWA has had a 0.4% family leave act W-2 income tax since Jan 1, 2019 (for funding parental leave, sick leave, and taking care of someone else leave).Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.
The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
-
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:22 pm
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:37 pmYou're right, my pay statement has it deducted. I guess we aren't really a no income tax state then...OrangeKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:33 pmWA has had a 0.4% family leave act W-2 income tax since Jan 1, 2019 (for funding parental leave, sick leave, and taking care of someone else leave).Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.
The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
-
- Posts: 16054
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Well, I was curious if other states like Texas pull something similar. I do have a LTCI coverage so it's not 0.58% in full, but some of my money goes to the policy instead.Sprucebark wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
You're correct that 0.4% isn't terrible, but if other "no income tax" states don't have any strings attached, then they might come across as appealing.
While I like WA being a great tech hub, I can't say I like the weather here much. It's probably not worth a move though, I agree.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
We're also getting a capital gains tax next year - currently 7% if >$250K of gains: https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/other-ta ... -gains-taxSprucebark wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pmLooks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:37 pmYou're right, my pay statement has it deducted. I guess we aren't really a no income tax state then...OrangeKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:33 pmWA has had a 0.4% family leave act W-2 income tax since Jan 1, 2019 (for funding parental leave, sick leave, and taking care of someone else leave).Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:44 pm Do other "no income tax" states have something similar like the WA LTCI act? Let's face it, this is essentially an income tax of 0.58% even though they don't call it so.
The reason I'm asking is I might consider moving elsewhere if the shenanigans continue.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Two months later and we are still waiting for Nationwide to issue policies that were approved in late September/early October. They are "working on it" but won't provide any individual updates.
-
- Posts: 16054
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I think the temperatures amongst "no income tax" states are different.Whakamole wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:33 pm We're also getting a capital gains tax next year - currently 7% if >$250K of gains: https://dor.wa.gov/taxes-rates/other-ta ... -gains-tax
Some states are firmly NO income tax states, some states are "*no income tax" with an asterisk.
- willthrill81
- Posts: 32250
- Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:17 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I agree that 1%, and more like .5% for us since we were able to opt out of the LTC tax very cheaply, isn't bad. I certainly don't lose sleep over it. Our property taxes are a bit high relative to some locales, but we pay no sales tax on food, one of our largest monthly expenses, and our utilities are about the cheapest in the nation since they're nearly all local hydro. So overall, I'm still very happy with our total state tax situation.Sprucebark wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
Also, don't confuse western WA's weather with that of the rest of the state. On the east side of the Olympic mountains, the state's climate is dramatically different. Around Spokane, we only get 18" of precipitation annually and get four very real and distinct seasons. We're actually under a winter weather advisory right now, and we have essentially blizzard conditions outside right now. Excellent skiing is just around the corner!
The Sensible Steward
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I'm in the same boat, as well as 21 more people that I work with. I think Nationwide should at least hire on a temp service like www.conversioncalls.com. In fact, screw it. I'm sending Nationwide's contact info to conversioncalls right now. This is ridiculous. 21 cases that have been approved for months and they can't even set them up for eDelivery (DocuSign). It shouldn't take longer than a minute to set that up.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Just make sure you make the short move to Idaho before you die.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:12 pmI agree that 1%, and more like .5% for us since we were able to opt out of the LTC tax very cheaply, isn't bad. I certainly don't lose sleep over it. Our property taxes are a bit high relative to some locales, but we pay no sales tax on food, one of our largest monthly expenses, and our utilities are about the cheapest in the nation since they're nearly all local hydro. So overall, I'm still very happy with our total state tax situation.Sprucebark wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
Also, don't confuse western WA's weather with that of the rest of the state. On the east side of the Olympic mountains, the state's climate is dramatically different. Around Spokane, we only get 18" of precipitation annually and get four very real and distinct seasons. We're actually under a winter weather advisory right now, and we have essentially blizzard conditions outside right now. Excellent skiing is just around the corner!
- willthrill81
- Posts: 32250
- Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:17 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
We shouldn't be impacted by WA's estate tax.RoyHobbs9 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 3:06 pmJust make sure you make the short move to Idaho before you die.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:12 pmI agree that 1%, and more like .5% for us since we were able to opt out of the LTC tax very cheaply, isn't bad. I certainly don't lose sleep over it. Our property taxes are a bit high relative to some locales, but we pay no sales tax on food, one of our largest monthly expenses, and our utilities are about the cheapest in the nation since they're nearly all local hydro. So overall, I'm still very happy with our total state tax situation.Sprucebark wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
Also, don't confuse western WA's weather with that of the rest of the state. On the east side of the Olympic mountains, the state's climate is dramatically different. Around Spokane, we only get 18" of precipitation annually and get four very real and distinct seasons. We're actually under a winter weather advisory right now, and we have essentially blizzard conditions outside right now. Excellent skiing is just around the corner!
The Sensible Steward
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I have about 15 of them waiting to be issued, which also means I don't get paid until they are issued and signed, so I would like for that to happen...maybe by the time 2026 rolls around. Oddly enough I had one single policy get issued and placed, but none of the others that were submitted and approved long before that one. Meanwhile I am also waiting on the IRS to process my amended tax return for over 6 months from which they owe me a fairly substantial refund. Time for me to start charging interest!RoyHobbs9 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:45 pmI'm in the same boat, as well as 21 more people that I work with. I think Nationwide should at least hire on a temp service like www.conversioncalls.com. In fact, screw it. I'm sending Nationwide's contact info to conversioncalls right now. This is ridiculous. 21 cases that have been approved for months and they can't even set them up for eDelivery (DocuSign). It shouldn't take longer than a minute to set that up.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
You don't have to charge interest. The IRS will include it all on their own.BruDude wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:23 pmI have about 15 of them waiting to be issued, which also means I don't get paid until they are issued and signed, so I would like for that to happen...maybe by the time 2026 rolls around. Oddly enough I had one single policy get issued and placed, but none of the others that were submitted and approved long before that one. Meanwhile I am also waiting on the IRS to process my amended tax return for over 6 months from which they owe me a fairly substantial refund. Time for me to start charging interest!RoyHobbs9 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:45 pmI'm in the same boat, as well as 21 more people that I work with. I think Nationwide should at least hire on a temp service like www.conversioncalls.com. In fact, screw it. I'm sending Nationwide's contact info to conversioncalls right now. This is ridiculous. 21 cases that have been approved for months and they can't even set them up for eDelivery (DocuSign). It shouldn't take longer than a minute to set that up.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I’m going to charge them 200% interest for the money I didn’t make on crypto that I would’ve if I got my refund on time. I’m sure they will be happy to pay it.tj wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:59 pmYou don't have to charge interest. The IRS will include it all on their own.BruDude wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:23 pmI have about 15 of them waiting to be issued, which also means I don't get paid until they are issued and signed, so I would like for that to happen...maybe by the time 2026 rolls around. Oddly enough I had one single policy get issued and placed, but none of the others that were submitted and approved long before that one. Meanwhile I am also waiting on the IRS to process my amended tax return for over 6 months from which they owe me a fairly substantial refund. Time for me to start charging interest!RoyHobbs9 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:45 pmI'm in the same boat, as well as 21 more people that I work with. I think Nationwide should at least hire on a temp service like www.conversioncalls.com. In fact, screw it. I'm sending Nationwide's contact info to conversioncalls right now. This is ridiculous. 21 cases that have been approved for months and they can't even set them up for eDelivery (DocuSign). It shouldn't take longer than a minute to set that up.
-
- Posts: 3527
- Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:28 pm
- Location: Western Washington
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I see several comments regarding delays in receiving Nationwide policies. Has anyone seen the same for Trustmark?
I've been really busy, and paperwork nobody asked for was not high on my priorities, so I finally got around today to trying to submit the exemption request based on the policy I was approved and my card charged for back in October, only to realize that unless I lost some mail, the most recent contact I have from Trustmark was an email saying my policy is in the mail.
Plus, every single link (eg - click here to login) in every single email I have from them redirects to a "This link has expired" page, and their customer service rep informed me they weren't really to the correct site anyways (correct domain, wrong subsite).
In light of the not exactly stellar communication so far, I'm left doubting my original presumption that I lost the mail, and hoping that they simply haven't sent it yet.
Once I did finally receive the correct web address for creating an online account, I did find I have a policy number and effective date I can print out if needed to show the state, but I still haven't found a copy of the policy.
I've been really busy, and paperwork nobody asked for was not high on my priorities, so I finally got around today to trying to submit the exemption request based on the policy I was approved and my card charged for back in October, only to realize that unless I lost some mail, the most recent contact I have from Trustmark was an email saying my policy is in the mail.
Plus, every single link (eg - click here to login) in every single email I have from them redirects to a "This link has expired" page, and their customer service rep informed me they weren't really to the correct site anyways (correct domain, wrong subsite).
In light of the not exactly stellar communication so far, I'm left doubting my original presumption that I lost the mail, and hoping that they simply haven't sent it yet.
Once I did finally receive the correct web address for creating an online account, I did find I have a policy number and effective date I can print out if needed to show the state, but I still haven't found a copy of the policy.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
A question for you all (and maybe it's already answered in the thread and I missed it...)
I managed to get a Trustmark policy by the deadline, which was fortunate because my two other applications moved incredibly slowly. I now have a Genworth policy still in flight that'll probably cost half as much.
If I take the Genworth policy and cancel the Trustmark policy, is there a risk that I'll lose eligibility? Does anyone know what I'd have to show to prove I had an LTC policy in force since the deadline?
I managed to get a Trustmark policy by the deadline, which was fortunate because my two other applications moved incredibly slowly. I now have a Genworth policy still in flight that'll probably cost half as much.
If I take the Genworth policy and cancel the Trustmark policy, is there a risk that I'll lose eligibility? Does anyone know what I'd have to show to prove I had an LTC policy in force since the deadline?
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Trustmark was actually fairly quick at getting the paper policies to us through the snail mail. 3 to 4 weeks, IIRC.iamlucky13 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 7:30 pm I see several comments regarding delays in receiving Nationwide policies. Has anyone seen the same for Trustmark?
I've been really busy, and paperwork nobody asked for was not high on my priorities, so I finally got around today to trying to submit the exemption request based on the policy I was approved and my card charged for back in October, only to realize that unless I lost some mail, the most recent contact I have from Trustmark was an email saying my policy is in the mail.
Plus, every single link (eg - click here to login) in every single email I have from them redirects to a "This link has expired" page, and their customer service rep informed me they weren't really to the correct site anyways (correct domain, wrong subsite).
In light of the not exactly stellar communication so far, I'm left doubting my original presumption that I lost the mail, and hoping that they simply haven't sent it yet.
Once I did finally receive the correct web address for creating an online account, I did find I have a policy number and effective date I can print out if needed to show the state, but I still haven't found a copy of the policy.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Just an update from the ESD. . . As of 12/10, 443,649 exemptions have been filed, 397,217 of them have been approved.
The state actuaries predicted only 95K exemptions.
The state actuaries predicted only 95K exemptions.
- CardinalRule
- Posts: 1204
- Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:01 am
- Location: United States
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I am sure you meant the Cascades. There is definitely a climate difference, although I much prefer the splendid summers of the western side, short as they are. I also like how mild the winters are - if only it weren’t so gloomy.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:12 pmI agree that 1%, and more like .5% for us since we were able to opt out of the LTC tax very cheaply, isn't bad. I certainly don't lose sleep over it. Our property taxes are a bit high relative to some locales, but we pay no sales tax on food, one of our largest monthly expenses, and our utilities are about the cheapest in the nation since they're nearly all local hydro. So overall, I'm still very happy with our total state tax situation.Sprucebark wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
Also, don't confuse western WA's weather with that of the rest of the state. On the east side of the Olympic mountains, the state's climate is dramatically different. Around Spokane, we only get 18" of precipitation annually and get four very real and distinct seasons. We're actually under a winter weather advisory right now, and we have essentially blizzard conditions outside right now. Excellent skiing is just around the corner!
I got my Trustmark policies (I was able to get one for DW at work as well) quickly and canceled the Transamerica arrangement within the allotted 30 days. I received a written confirmation from Transamerica, but I think I am owed a refund.
-
- Posts: 2045
- Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2020 11:14 pm
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Bingo! This is already happening on the PFML side of things, with the tax rate increasing from 0.4% to 0.6% starting in 2022. These low tax rates (oops, I mean, “premiums”) are just teaser rates to get the legislation passed without political suicide … then the rates go up when the programs inevitably become insolvent.
- willthrill81
- Posts: 32250
- Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:17 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Yes, I meant the Cascades.CardinalRule wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:53 pmI am sure you meant the Cascades. There is definitely a climate difference, although I much prefer the splendid summers of the western side, short as they are. I also like how mild the winters are - if only it weren’t so gloomy.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:12 pmI agree that 1%, and more like .5% for us since we were able to opt out of the LTC tax very cheaply, isn't bad. I certainly don't lose sleep over it. Our property taxes are a bit high relative to some locales, but we pay no sales tax on food, one of our largest monthly expenses, and our utilities are about the cheapest in the nation since they're nearly all local hydro. So overall, I'm still very happy with our total state tax situation.Sprucebark wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:53 pm Looks like you are at 0.98%. It’s still a better deal than most other places. That alone probably isn’t worth a move…unless you are wanting to escape the type of weather that makes you grow moss on the back of your neck!
Also, don't confuse western WA's weather with that of the rest of the state. On the east side of the Olympic mountains, the state's climate is dramatically different. Around Spokane, we only get 18" of precipitation annually and get four very real and distinct seasons. We're actually under a winter weather advisory right now, and we have essentially blizzard conditions outside right now. Excellent skiing is just around the corner!
The Sensible Steward
- CardinalRule
- Posts: 1204
- Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:01 am
- Location: United States
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Thanks! And yet again, I don't know entirely what this means... But I'm already paying for LTC.CardinalRule wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:42 pm And now the "brakes" are on for this.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... term-care/
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:
https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
-
- Posts: 16054
- Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Now that Governor Inslee made an official statement, it is OK to discuss this right?
Based on my quick glance, this got pp'ed till April 2022 the earliest?
Based on my quick glance, this got pp'ed till April 2022 the earliest?
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
lolol, one of the worst rules on this site.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:59 pm Now that Governor Inslee made an official statement, it is OK to discuss this right?
Officially, the law has not changed. Inslee just isn't enforcing it. So technically we still can't talk about it here?!?!
-
- Posts: 3289
- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:30 pm
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
yes, it foreshadows interesting bits:WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:54 pm The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:
https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
Pausing the program so that it can better serve disabled veterans, military spouses, non-residents, and near retirees will improve the program. A pause will also give the Long Term Care Commission the ability to study and make recommendations about residents who move out of Washington to retire and assure that those who have opted out of the program maintain their private insurance policies.
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Great. we may continue to pay for worthless policies in order to avoid a worthless tax.Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:07 pmyes, it foreshadows interesting bits:WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:54 pm The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:
https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
Pausing the program so that it can better serve disabled veterans, military spouses, non-residents, and near retirees will improve the program. A pause will also give the Long Term Care Commission the ability to study and make recommendations about residents who move out of Washington to retire and assure that those who have opted out of the program maintain their private insurance policies.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Your policy's not worthless.Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:43 pmGreat. we may continue to pay for worthless policies in order to avoid a worthless tax.Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:07 pmyes, it foreshadows interesting bits:WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:54 pm The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:
https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
Pausing the program so that it can better serve disabled veterans, military spouses, non-residents, and near retirees will improve the program. A pause will also give the Long Term Care Commission the ability to study and make recommendations about residents who move out of Washington to retire and assure that those who have opted out of the program maintain their private insurance policies.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:49 pmYour policy's not worthless.Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:43 pmGreat. we may continue to pay for worthless policies in order to avoid a worthless tax.Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:07 pmyes, it foreshadows interesting bits:WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:54 pm The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:
https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
Pausing the program so that it can better serve disabled veterans, military spouses, non-residents, and near retirees will improve the program. A pause will also give the Long Term Care Commission the ability to study and make recommendations about residents who move out of Washington to retire and assure that those who have opted out of the program maintain their private insurance policies.
To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
- willthrill81
- Posts: 32250
- Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:17 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I believe that this falls under the forum's policy that it's alright to discuss 'enacted regulations', but I don't know. I was recently informed that telling someone that a topic might get a thread locked was somehow 'acting like a mod', so perhaps your question and my response are prohibited. It's rather confusing.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:59 pm Now that Governor Inslee made an official statement, it is OK to discuss this right?
Based on my quick glance, this got pp'ed till April 2022 the earliest?
The Sensible Steward
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
If you need to make a claim, you'll get back A LOT more than you paid in premium. That's the opposite of worthless, in my view.Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:04 pmI am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:49 pmYour policy's not worthless.Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:43 pmGreat. we may continue to pay for worthless policies in order to avoid a worthless tax.Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:07 pmyes, it foreshadows interesting bits:WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:54 pm The full statement published by Inslee's office provides a lot more insight:
https://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/ ... assessment
Pausing the program so that it can better serve disabled veterans, military spouses, non-residents, and near retirees will improve the program. A pause will also give the Long Term Care Commission the ability to study and make recommendations about residents who move out of Washington to retire and assure that those who have opted out of the program maintain their private insurance policies.
To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:12 pmIf you need to make a claim, you'll get back A LOT more than you paid in premium. That's the opposite of worthless, in my view.Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:04 pmI am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.
To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/
I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.Yet when it comes to long-term care needs in today’s environment, what was perhaps once a higher-cost lower-probability event has now turned into a very high-probability event with an increasingly large volume of “lower-cost” claims. As a result, long-term care insurance has begun to morph from effective insurance, into something that looks more like just prepaying long-term care expenses in advance at a high premium rate and with little insurance leverage.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:31 pmI do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:12 pmIf you need to make a claim, you'll get back A LOT more than you paid in premium. That's the opposite of worthless, in my view.Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:04 pmI am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.
To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.Yet when it comes to long-term care needs in today’s environment, what was perhaps once a higher-cost lower-probability event has now turned into a very high-probability event with an increasingly large volume of “lower-cost” claims. As a result, long-term care insurance has begun to morph from effective insurance, into something that looks more like just prepaying long-term care expenses in advance at a high premium rate and with little insurance leverage.
You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.
Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.
Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:54 pmWhakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:31 pmI do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:12 pmIf you need to make a claim, you'll get back A LOT more than you paid in premium. That's the opposite of worthless, in my view.Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:04 pmI am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.
To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.Yet when it comes to long-term care needs in today’s environment, what was perhaps once a higher-cost lower-probability event has now turned into a very high-probability event with an increasingly large volume of “lower-cost” claims. As a result, long-term care insurance has begun to morph from effective insurance, into something that looks more like just prepaying long-term care expenses in advance at a high premium rate and with little insurance leverage.
You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.
Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.
Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
- willthrill81
- Posts: 32250
- Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:17 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.truenyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:00 pmI did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:54 pmWhakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:31 pmI do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:12 pmIf you need to make a claim, you'll get back A LOT more than you paid in premium. That's the opposite of worthless, in my view.Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:04 pm
I am only paying for a private policy to avoid an excessive tax, and will drop it as soon as it isn't required to avoid the tax, either moving out of state while I am working, or moving out of state after retirement. I've also had RBDs that dropped my net worth more than the maximum lifetime benefit.
To me, both policy and tax are worthless. I'd rather invest it. Instead, it is a reduction in income when inflation is already knocking my yearly wage down.
https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.Yet when it comes to long-term care needs in today’s environment, what was perhaps once a higher-cost lower-probability event has now turned into a very high-probability event with an increasingly large volume of “lower-cost” claims. As a result, long-term care insurance has begun to morph from effective insurance, into something that looks more like just prepaying long-term care expenses in advance at a high premium rate and with little insurance leverage.
You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.
Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.
Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
The Sensible Steward
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
Two things:willthrill81 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:03 pm$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.truenyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:00 pmI did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:54 pmWhakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:31 pmI do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:
https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.Yet when it comes to long-term care needs in today’s environment, what was perhaps once a higher-cost lower-probability event has now turned into a very high-probability event with an increasingly large volume of “lower-cost” claims. As a result, long-term care insurance has begun to morph from effective insurance, into something that looks more like just prepaying long-term care expenses in advance at a high premium rate and with little insurance leverage.
You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.
Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.
Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
1) We weren't buying a plan to actually fully-fund our needs, because in the end we were still buying a plan to get out of the tax.
2) 5% yearly compounded inflation adds up very quickly.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
How does it compare with investing $1200/year until the time when a policy would be needed?truenyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:05 pmTwo things:willthrill81 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:03 pm$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.truenyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:00 pmI did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:54 pmWhakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:31 pm
I do not think it is true at all that we will get back "A LOT more" than I paid in premium. Quite the opposite. According to Michael Kitces:
https://www.kitces.com/blog/can-increas ... ing-again/
I would rather keep the money and pay for LTC if I need it - no fighting with the insurance company.
You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.
Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.
Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
1) We weren't buying a plan to actually fully-fund our needs, because in the end we were still buying a plan to get out of the tax.
2) 5% yearly compounded inflation adds up very quickly.
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
For each person ($600) investing that over 35 years with an annual return of 11% (crazy, right) results in $300k.Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:09 pmHow does it compare with investing $1200/year until the time when a policy would be needed?truenyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:05 pmTwo things:willthrill81 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:03 pm$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.truenyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:00 pmI did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.WoW2012 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:54 pm
You're 100% correct that for some people long-term care insurance is a bad deal. Someone who waits to buy a policy until they are unhealthy or "older" makes the cost of the policy not much better than self-insuring.
Younger, healthier applicants, especially if they are married, can find excellent values.
Keep in mind, when you need care, you won't be the one making the decisions anymore. Your loved ones will. Plans to self-fund often end up as "daughter care" or "spouse care" or "daughter-in-law care".
1) We weren't buying a plan to actually fully-fund our needs, because in the end we were still buying a plan to get out of the tax.
2) 5% yearly compounded inflation adds up very quickly.
The value of each of our LTC policies (total benefit amount) at that time will be $371k.
- willthrill81
- Posts: 32250
- Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:17 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
No, the maximum benefit of the LTC policies would be $371k, not their value (i.e., financial worth to you).truenyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:18 pmFor each person ($600) investing that over 35 years with an annual return of 11% (crazy, right) results in $300k.Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:09 pmHow does it compare with investing $1200/year until the time when a policy would be needed?truenyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:05 pmTwo things:willthrill81 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:03 pm$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.truenyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:00 pm
I did some back-of-the-envelope calculations when we got our private plans this year. My wife and my premiums are about $600 each per year, for $72k in benefits, inflation adjusted by 5% compounded. The $1,200/year premiums are well worth the risk and potential "reward," as that is a small drop in the bucket for our personal situation.
1) We weren't buying a plan to actually fully-fund our needs, because in the end we were still buying a plan to get out of the tax.
2) 5% yearly compounded inflation adds up very quickly.
The value of each of our LTC policies (total benefit amount) at that time will be $371k.
The Sensible Steward
Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit
I didn't mean to say that the value is recoverable. Obviously it is not. That's the risk of insurance in general.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:21 pmNo, the maximum benefit of the LTC policies would be $371k, not their value (i.e., financial worth to you).truenyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:18 pmFor each person ($600) investing that over 35 years with an annual return of 11% (crazy, right) results in $300k.Whakamole wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:09 pmHow does it compare with investing $1200/year until the time when a policy would be needed?truenyer wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:05 pmTwo things:willthrill81 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:03 pm
$72k is very little protection. That wouldn't cover one year of full-time institutional care (e.g., nursing home) in most areas at least.
1) We weren't buying a plan to actually fully-fund our needs, because in the end we were still buying a plan to get out of the tax.
2) 5% yearly compounded inflation adds up very quickly.
The value of each of our LTC policies (total benefit amount) at that time will be $371k.