Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
RoyHobbs9
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:03 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:07 pm
tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:05 pm Nothing illegal about avoiding taxes.
Yeah, to the original question, I guess we'd be looking for the cheapest option out there. I don't know the pricing of UL + rider, but it might be more expensive than a standalone LTCI policy. I'm still gathering agents; so far NGL offering $2000/year minimum and I'm looking for other options.
It could be more than a standalone LTCI policy, but unless you pay 25% more for a return of premium rider on that standalone policy, if you don't use the benefit, you lose it. With the hybrid policy, if you don't use the LTC benefit, at least the money goes to your intended beneficiaries.
User avatar
batpot
Posts: 1284
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:48 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by batpot »

My mega corp came through with a plan from Trustmark that goes into effect Oct 1st.

It's a $25k UL with a LTC rider. Price is adjusted for age, but is far cheaper than anything I could find privately.
softmax
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:27 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by softmax »

batpot wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:44 pm My mega corp came through with a plan from Trustmark that goes into effect Oct 1st.

It's a $25k UL with a LTC rider. Price is adjusted for age, but is far cheaper than anything I could find privately.
How is $25k qualified for opt out? I think the min is $36,500.
User avatar
truenyer
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:39 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

softmax wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:53 pm
batpot wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:44 pm My mega corp came through with a plan from Trustmark that goes into effect Oct 1st.

It's a $25k UL with a LTC rider. Price is adjusted for age, but is far cheaper than anything I could find privately.
How is $25k qualified for opt out? I think the min is $36,500.
It's a $25k life insurance policy. With that policy, the monthly benefit amount is $1000. Which is also below the state plan.

But, nothing so far has said there has to be a minimum coverage amount to get an exemption.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

truenyer wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:04 pm
softmax wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:53 pm
batpot wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:44 pm My mega corp came through with a plan from Trustmark that goes into effect Oct 1st.

It's a $25k UL with a LTC rider. Price is adjusted for age, but is far cheaper than anything I could find privately.
How is $25k qualified for opt out? I think the min is $36,500.
It's a $25k life insurance policy. With that policy, the monthly benefit amount is $1000. Which is also below the state plan.

But, nothing so far has said there has to be a minimum coverage amount to get an exemption.
I don't know how authoritative, but some sources say your coverage has to be better than the state plan to opt-out: https://www2.pugetsound.edu/files/resou ... loyees.pdf
User avatar
truenyer
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:39 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

Marseille07 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:15 pm
truenyer wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:04 pm
softmax wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:53 pm
batpot wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:44 pm My mega corp came through with a plan from Trustmark that goes into effect Oct 1st.

It's a $25k UL with a LTC rider. Price is adjusted for age, but is far cheaper than anything I could find privately.
How is $25k qualified for opt out? I think the min is $36,500.
It's a $25k life insurance policy. With that policy, the monthly benefit amount is $1000. Which is also below the state plan.

But, nothing so far has said there has to be a minimum coverage amount to get an exemption.
I don't know how authoritative, but some sources say your coverage has to be better than the state plan to opt-out: https://www2.pugetsound.edu/files/resou ... loyees.pdf
Nothing in the law says it has to be equal or better. This official OIC page makes *no* mention of minimum coverage amounts. https://www.insurance.wa.gov/what-quali ... -insurance
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

truenyer wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:25 pm Nothing in the law says it has to be equal or better. This official OIC page makes *no* mention of minimum coverage amounts. https://www.insurance.wa.gov/what-quali ... -insurance
You do you, but it's one of those situations where it's wise to meet the state plan *in case* that's the agenda. I too can't find the minimum mentioned, but as I said I see multiple sources saying so.

Since this is likely a one-time verification, I try to pass with flying colors than attempt to save $100 while potentially significantly hurting my chances.
User avatar
truenyer
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:39 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

Marseille07 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:43 pm
truenyer wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:25 pm Nothing in the law says it has to be equal or better. This official OIC page makes *no* mention of minimum coverage amounts. https://www.insurance.wa.gov/what-quali ... -insurance
You do you, but it's one of those situations where it's wise to meet the state plan *in case* that's the agenda. I too can't find the minimum mentioned, but as I said I see multiple sources saying so.

Since this is likely a one-time verification, I try to pass with flying colors than attempt to save $100 while potentially significantly hurting my chances.
I never said I wasn't (my planned coverage is above the state requirement). I'm just telling you what the *law* says.
intendi
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:16 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by intendi »

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread!

I should have a policy in place shortly and will be ready to apply for an exemption 10/1 (won't that be an interesting day?).

I still have a hard time believing this is going to go into effect as is.
RoyHobbs9
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:03 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

Anyone have a crystal ball?

1) The state actuary recommended a tax of .70%, but they went with .58%
2) Voters voted down the bill that would allow the state to invest the fund in equities
3) The state was attempting to subsidize medicaid by making this a progressive tax, but all the high net worth folk have CPAs, financial advisors, insurance folks that most likely have opted them out. AMZN, MSFT, Expedia, Boeing, etc. brought in "group"/discounted individual policies to opt their people out

What is the committee going to recommend to our legislature to keep this thing solvent every 2 years? Lowering an already practically worthless benefit? Making the benefit even harder to access? Or, revising the revised code, and increasing the tax? Targeting high net worth folk, who drop their private policies after November 1, and auditing them?
chrischris
Posts: 152
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by chrischris »

So... I'm fairly health conscious. Not long ago, I decided I was starting to drink more alcohol than I wanted to. Nothing major, no life crisis, just not satisfied with my lifestyle. Always looking to better myself, I got a RX for a medication to help reduce alcohol intake. I didn't think much of it, until I applied for LTC and learned I am basically blacklisted since I'm seen as someone with a substance abuse problem. I am now very worried I won't be able to get LTC to avoid this massive tax.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, could you please PM me.

Thanks...
WoW2012
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

chrischris wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:29 pm So... I'm fairly health conscious. Not long ago, I decided I was starting to drink more alcohol than I wanted to. Nothing major, no life crisis, just not satisfied with my lifestyle. Always looking to better myself, I got a RX for a medication to help reduce alcohol intake. I didn't think much of it, until I applied for LTC and learned I am basically blacklisted since I'm seen as someone with a substance abuse problem. I am now very worried I won't be able to get LTC to avoid this massive tax.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, could you please PM me.

Thanks...
Probably the only possibility for you, Chrischris, is an annuity with a long-term care rider. But, if you're under 40 you probably won't be able to buy one of them.

A lot of Washingtonians are going to be surprised when they are declined for long-term care insurance. Long-term care insurance underwriting is the complete OPPOSITE of life insurance underwriting. And anyone who applies for a life/ltc hybrid will, with most companies, have to meet the LTC underwriting requirements AND the life insurance underwriting requirements.

That's why you shouldn't just apply for a policy with Joe Insurance Agent down the street. Most insurance agents don't understand long-term care insurance underwriting.

fyi... NY Life has some of the strictest underwriting standards in the long-term care insurance industry (and always has). One time I got someone approved for "super preferred" rates from Allianz (a long-term care insurer who had pretty strict underwriting). That same person was issued SUBSTANDARD by NY Life.

Wise Washingtonians are seeking out long-term care insurance SPECIALISTS because the underwriting hurdle is the real problem.

IF your employer is offering a guaranteed issue LTCi policy (or hybrid) TAKE IT!!!!!!
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
BruDude
Posts: 4203
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:49 pm
chrischris wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:29 pm So... I'm fairly health conscious. Not long ago, I decided I was starting to drink more alcohol than I wanted to. Nothing major, no life crisis, just not satisfied with my lifestyle. Always looking to better myself, I got a RX for a medication to help reduce alcohol intake. I didn't think much of it, until I applied for LTC and learned I am basically blacklisted since I'm seen as someone with a substance abuse problem. I am now very worried I won't be able to get LTC to avoid this massive tax.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, could you please PM me.

Thanks...
Probably the only possibility for you, Chrischris, is an annuity with a long-term care rider. But, if you're under 40 you probably won't be able to buy one of them.

A lot of Washingtonians are going to be surprised when they are declined for long-term care insurance. Long-term care insurance underwriting is the complete OPPOSITE of life insurance underwriting. And anyone who applies for a life/ltc hybrid will, with most companies, have to meet the LTC underwriting requirements AND the life insurance underwriting requirements.

That's why you shouldn't just apply for a policy with Joe Insurance Agent down the street. Most insurance agents don't understand long-term care insurance underwriting.

fyi... NY Life has some of the strictest underwriting standards in the long-term care insurance industry (and always has). One time I got someone approved for "super preferred" rates from Allianz (a long-term care insurer who had pretty strict underwriting). That same person was issued SUBSTANDARD by NY Life.

Wise Washingtonians are seeking out long-term care insurance SPECIALISTS because the underwriting hurdle is the real problem.

IF your employer is offering a guaranteed issue LTCi policy (or hybrid) TAKE IT!!!!!!
^all of this
BruDude
Posts: 4203
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

chrischris wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:29 pm So... I'm fairly health conscious. Not long ago, I decided I was starting to drink more alcohol than I wanted to. Nothing major, no life crisis, just not satisfied with my lifestyle. Always looking to better myself, I got a RX for a medication to help reduce alcohol intake. I didn't think much of it, until I applied for LTC and learned I am basically blacklisted since I'm seen as someone with a substance abuse problem. I am now very worried I won't be able to get LTC to avoid this massive tax.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, could you please PM me.

Thanks...
That’s going to be a decline with every life insurance company for at least a year especially if you are still drinking at all. I’m sure it’s a decline for traditional LTC too. If your employer is offering anything take it. Otherwise you may be another in a long list of people that can’t opt out because they can’t qualify for anything. I’m sure there will be legal challenges on those grounds and many others. Quite the mess.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:49 pm IF your employer is offering a guaranteed issue LTCi policy (or hybrid) TAKE IT!!!!!!
Thanks. I just asked HR about my employer's LTCi / rider if any. I don't think they have anything but it'd be worth asking even if they don't.

Meeting with NYL tomorrow as well.
BruDude
Posts: 4203
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Nationwide sent out an email today stating that if you do not submit an application by August 6, your policy will likely not get approved before the November 1 deadline. if you have been waffling, apply immediately. As expected, they've had a massive influx of applications.
tomsense76
Posts: 1428
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:52 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tomsense76 »

WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:49 pm
chrischris wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:29 pm So... I'm fairly health conscious. Not long ago, I decided I was starting to drink more alcohol than I wanted to. Nothing major, no life crisis, just not satisfied with my lifestyle. Always looking to better myself, I got a RX for a medication to help reduce alcohol intake. I didn't think much of it, until I applied for LTC and learned I am basically blacklisted since I'm seen as someone with a substance abuse problem. I am now very worried I won't be able to get LTC to avoid this massive tax.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, could you please PM me.

Thanks...
Probably the only possibility for you, Chrischris, is an annuity with a long-term care rider. But, if you're under 40 you probably won't be able to buy one of them.

A lot of Washingtonians are going to be surprised when they are declined for long-term care insurance. Long-term care insurance underwriting is the complete OPPOSITE of life insurance underwriting. And anyone who applies for a life/ltc hybrid will, with most companies, have to meet the LTC underwriting requirements AND the life insurance underwriting requirements.

That's why you shouldn't just apply for a policy with Joe Insurance Agent down the street. Most insurance agents don't understand long-term care insurance underwriting.

fyi... NY Life has some of the strictest underwriting standards in the long-term care insurance industry (and always has). One time I got someone approved for "super preferred" rates from Allianz (a long-term care insurer who had pretty strict underwriting). That same person was issued SUBSTANDARD by NY Life.

Wise Washingtonians are seeking out long-term care insurance SPECIALISTS because the underwriting hurdle is the real problem.

IF your employer is offering a guaranteed issue LTCi policy (or hybrid) TAKE IT!!!!!!
Fascinating thank you!

I went through the process of getting an NY Life policy and was approved. Thought it was no longer possible to get added to the work plan so had done this. It turns out the work plan added me as well, but didn't figure this out until recently. Over the length of the policy think the NY Life plan will have greater value (even if I cancel can get my premium back after 6yrs paying in).

The work policy seems to have less benefit than the state's own plan.

Was thinking to cancel the work plan, but am now wondering if maybe I should keep it in the rare even NY Life ejects me after the fact for some reason (thus jeopardizing opting out). Would be interested in your thoughts here :)
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
RoyHobbs9
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:03 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:49 pm
chrischris wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:29 pm So... I'm fairly health conscious. Not long ago, I decided I was starting to drink more alcohol than I wanted to. Nothing major, no life crisis, just not satisfied with my lifestyle. Always looking to better myself, I got a RX for a medication to help reduce alcohol intake. I didn't think much of it, until I applied for LTC and learned I am basically blacklisted since I'm seen as someone with a substance abuse problem. I am now very worried I won't be able to get LTC to avoid this massive tax.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, could you please PM me.

Thanks...
Probably the only possibility for you, Chrischris, is an annuity with a long-term care rider. But, if you're under 40 you probably won't be able to buy one of them.

A lot of Washingtonians are going to be surprised when they are declined for long-term care insurance. Long-term care insurance underwriting is the complete OPPOSITE of life insurance underwriting. And anyone who applies for a life/ltc hybrid will, with most companies, have to meet the LTC underwriting requirements AND the life insurance underwriting requirements.

That's why you shouldn't just apply for a policy with Joe Insurance Agent down the street. Most insurance agents don't understand long-term care insurance underwriting.

fyi... NY Life has some of the strictest underwriting standards in the long-term care insurance industry (and always has). One time I got someone approved for "super preferred" rates from Allianz (a long-term care insurer who had pretty strict underwriting). That same person was issued SUBSTANDARD by NY Life.

Wise Washingtonians are seeking out long-term care insurance SPECIALISTS because the underwriting hurdle is the real problem.

IF your employer is offering a guaranteed issue LTCi policy (or hybrid) TAKE IT!!!!!!
For the annuity w/ LTC rider, you are also going to need to have about $28K lying around. . .
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Is it advisable to apply at a bunch of places in case some of them might not go through, or apply one at a time? I applied recently, but they might take 4~5 weeks to approve my application. If it doesn't go through then I'm pretty much screwed.
stocknoob4111
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:52 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by stocknoob4111 »

Not sure if already asked but I can't search the thread... this applies to only WA residents correct? I am a TX resident but work for a WA based employer.
User avatar
truenyer
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:39 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:12 pm Not sure if already asked but I can't search the thread... this applies to only WA residents correct? I am a TX resident but work for a WA based employer.
You should ask your employer. But it appears that you are included in this.
TropikThunder
Posts: 3909
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by TropikThunder »

chrischris wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:29 pm I am now very worried I won't be able to get LTC to avoid this massive tax.
Massive? It's 0.58%. That's less than $100/month on a $200,000 salary. That's less than most people spend at Starbucks.
TropikThunder
Posts: 3909
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by TropikThunder »

TropikThunder wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:38 pm
chrischris wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:29 pm I am now very worried I won't be able to get LTC to avoid this massive tax.
Massive? It's 0.58%. Massive would be California's state income tax of 9.3% above $58k.

It's less than $100/month on a $200,000 annual salary. You may not get much in return for it, but that's less than most people spend at Starbucks.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

TropikThunder wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:38 pm
chrischris wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:29 pm I am now very worried I won't be able to get LTC to avoid this massive tax.
Massive? It's 0.58%. That's less than $100/month on a $200,000 salary. That's less than most people spend at Starbucks.
Tech people earn more than 200K on a W-2 basis even if their base is 200K.
TropikThunder
Posts: 3909
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by TropikThunder »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:42 pm
TropikThunder wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:38 pm
chrischris wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:29 pm I am now very worried I won't be able to get LTC to avoid this massive tax.
Massive? It's 0.58%. That's less than $100/month on a $200,000 salary. That's less than most people spend at Starbucks.
Tech people earn more than 200K on a W-2 basis even if their base is 200K.
$200,000 was just an example. It's still not a "massive" tax.
stocknoob4111
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:52 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by stocknoob4111 »

truenyer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:51 pm You should ask your employer. But it appears that you are included in this.
I will check it, but as a TX resident I can't legally be subject to a program that is for WA residents since I am not eligible, that would not be legal in my view. There is no way I am going to accept a levy on my wages for a WA state program that I am not part of.

If this is a law I will just have to ask my employer to increase my wages my 0.58% or too bad I will just quit. Absolutely no way I will agree to this.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

stocknoob4111 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:05 pm
truenyer wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:51 pm You should ask your employer. But it appears that you are included in this.
I will check it, but as a TX resident I can't legally be subject to a program that is for WA residents since I am not eligible, that would not be legal in my view. There is no way I am going to accept a levy on my wages for a WA state program that I am not part of.

If this is a law I will just have to ask my employer to increase my wages my 0.58% or too bad I will just quit. Absolutely no way I will agree to this.
You should check, but I don't think you're included, so long as your company is handling your taxes as a Texas resident (and they should be, if you have a Texas address on file with them).
stocknoob4111
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:52 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by stocknoob4111 »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:09 pm You should check, but I don't think you're included, so long as your company is handling your taxes as a Texas resident (and they should be, if you have a Texas address on file with them).
Yeah, I will check it... I did some research online and it's not clear, some websites say if you're an employee out of state but "directed from Washington State" then you're subject to it. Other websites say it's only for WA residents.

My paycheck has CA and TX in the states section and there isn't a reference to WA (CA because I started the job when I was a CA resident but then moved but it still has it in there for whatever reason it hasn't dropped off but I am not charged CA taxes).
dstac
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by dstac »

Didn’t read all the recents, but a couple of notes based on some conversations w providers/agents:

-employers can still create an employee benefit to address this, but must move quick (however new employees after deadline will still not be exempted)
-may have more success with a life+LTC but be aware that other +LTC are not necessarily eligible. (Disability+LTC was mentioned as not included as that is apparently a common Q)

Thanks to all for contributing to this thread. Even the cost of $580/yr on $100k simply buys a substandard plan assuming you have enough years of service to qualify.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

dstac wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:39 pm -may have more success with a life+LTC but be aware that other +LTC are not necessarily eligible. (Disability+LTC was mentioned as not included as that is apparently a common Q)
How did you figure this? In my case, I applied for a standalone policy because the price diff was quite substantial (something like $300/yr vs $1100/yr) and I already have Life through employer.
BruDude
Posts: 4203
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:43 pm
dstac wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:39 pm -may have more success with a life+LTC but be aware that other +LTC are not necessarily eligible. (Disability+LTC was mentioned as not included as that is apparently a common Q)
How did you figure this? In my case, I applied for a standalone policy because the price diff was quite substantial (something like $300/yr vs $1100/yr) and I already have Life through employer.
The policy has to have a tax-qualified section 7702 rider. I did 7 applications today alone for Nationwide and have 5 more scheduled for this weekend already. They are going to be insanely busy underwriting the influx of apps especially after telling people it needs to be in by next Friday.
dstac
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by dstac »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:43 pm
dstac wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:39 pm -may have more success with a life+LTC but be aware that other +LTC are not necessarily eligible. (Disability+LTC was mentioned as not included as that is apparently a common Q)
How did you figure this? In my case, I applied for a standalone policy because the price diff was quite substantial (something like $300/yr vs $1100/yr) and I already have Life through employer.
I didn’t price them at all, but with the LTC market tightening, it was general advice that some providers were more open to life+LTC. Doesn’t mean it financially makes sense, but rather a possible side door. Sorry, should have been clearer in the post.

(My personal is a stand alone too.)
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

BruDude wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:00 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:43 pm
dstac wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:39 pm -may have more success with a life+LTC but be aware that other +LTC are not necessarily eligible. (Disability+LTC was mentioned as not included as that is apparently a common Q)
How did you figure this? In my case, I applied for a standalone policy because the price diff was quite substantial (something like $300/yr vs $1100/yr) and I already have Life through employer.
The policy has to have a tax-qualified section 7702 rider. I did 7 applications today alone for Nationwide and have 5 more scheduled for this weekend already. They are going to be insanely busy underwriting the influx of apps especially after telling people it needs to be in by next Friday.
I see. I spoke with NYL and I'm pretty sure they offered products that fit 7702B. If in the event that my exemption is denied then I'll have to cancel the policy and head over to Texas.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

dstac wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:09 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:43 pm
dstac wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:39 pm -may have more success with a life+LTC but be aware that other +LTC are not necessarily eligible. (Disability+LTC was mentioned as not included as that is apparently a common Q)
How did you figure this? In my case, I applied for a standalone policy because the price diff was quite substantial (something like $300/yr vs $1100/yr) and I already have Life through employer.
I didn’t price them at all, but with the LTC market tightening, it was general advice that some providers were more open to life+LTC. Doesn’t mean it financially makes sense, but rather a possible side door. Sorry, should have been clearer in the post.

(My personal is a stand alone too.)
Oh I see what you mean, you were talking about the chance of getting coverage. I took it to mean the chance of getting an exemption come October :beer
Indigo
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:11 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Indigo »

BruDude wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:00 pm The policy has to have a tax-qualified section 7702 rider. I did 7 applications today alone for Nationwide and have 5 more scheduled for this weekend already. They are going to be insanely busy underwriting the influx of apps especially after telling people it needs to be in by next Friday.
I was approved for a Banker's life LTC policy that says, "This is NOT intended to be a Tax-Qualified Long-Term Care Insurance policy under Section 7702B(b) of the Internal Revenue Code, as enacted by "The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996". I got it from an LTC broker with the intention that it would qualify to opt out as it has better coverage for a less expensive premium. Are you saying this wouldn't qualify for the opt out? Or is that just for Life + LTC policies? If my policy doesn't qualify then I want to cancel it immediately while I'm still in the 30 day window.

This is so darn confusing.
WoW2012
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Indigo wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:09 pm
BruDude wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:00 pm The policy has to have a tax-qualified section 7702 rider. I did 7 applications today alone for Nationwide and have 5 more scheduled for this weekend already. They are going to be insanely busy underwriting the influx of apps especially after telling people it needs to be in by next Friday.
I was approved for a Banker's life LTC policy that says, "This is NOT intended to be a Tax-Qualified Long-Term Care Insurance policy under Section 7702B(b) of the Internal Revenue Code, as enacted by "The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996". I got it from an LTC broker with the intention that it would qualify to opt out as it has better coverage for a less expensive premium. Are you saying this wouldn't qualify for the opt out? Or is that just for Life + LTC policies? If my policy doesn't qualify then I want to cancel it immediately while I'm still in the 30 day window.

This is so darn confusing.

The 7702B rider is required for Life+LTC policies.

A non-tax qualified long-term care insurance policy still meets the state of Washington's definition of "long-term care insurance" therefore it qualifies for the opt-out.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Indigo wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:09 pm
BruDude wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:00 pm The policy has to have a tax-qualified section 7702 rider. I did 7 applications today alone for Nationwide and have 5 more scheduled for this weekend already. They are going to be insanely busy underwriting the influx of apps especially after telling people it needs to be in by next Friday.
I was approved for a Banker's life LTC policy that says, "This is NOT intended to be a Tax-Qualified Long-Term Care Insurance policy under Section 7702B(b) of the Internal Revenue Code, as enacted by "The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996". I got it from an LTC broker with the intention that it would qualify to opt out as it has better coverage for a less expensive premium. Are you saying this wouldn't qualify for the opt out? Or is that just for Life + LTC policies? If my policy doesn't qualify then I want to cancel it immediately while I'm still in the 30 day window.

This is so darn confusing.
This is something you need to check during the application process. I've been very open about it with my NYL representative, as there's no point in hiding.
Indigo
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:11 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Indigo »

WoW2012 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:13 pm
The 7702B rider is required for Life+LTC policies.

A non-tax qualified long-term care insurance policy still meets the state of Washington's definition of "long-term care insurance" therefore it qualifies for the opt-out.
Thanks Wow2012. I was hoping that's the case. The BL policy coverage and premium was a much better option than what my employer was offering (Life + LTC from Chubb).
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

I heard that NYL raising trad LTCI minimum to $100/day starting tomorrow.
BruDude
Posts: 4203
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Update - John Hancock is suspending sales of all LTC rider policies on August 6. They now have a massive backlog of applications. If you haven’t applied yet, you better apply real quick before other companies do the same.
AS7911
Posts: 623
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:55 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by AS7911 »

softmax wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:53 pm
batpot wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:44 pm My mega corp came through with a plan from Trustmark that goes into effect Oct 1st.

It's a $25k UL with a LTC rider. Price is adjusted for age, but is far cheaper than anything I could find privately.
How is $25k qualified for opt out? I think the min is $36,500.
The LTC amount is 2X the death amount. So if you sign up for the minimum 25K death benefit, you get 50K Ltc coverage, which qualifies for the exemption. Unfortunately, that 2X fact is buried deep in the fine print.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tj »

BruDude wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:38 am Update - John Hancock is suspending sales of all LTC rider policies on August 6. They now have a massive backlog of applications. If you haven’t applied yet, you better apply real quick before other companies do the same.
How many policies have you sold from people reading this thread? :mrgreen:
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

I pinged my workplace and they're made aware of this law (my workplace does not have a WA footprint). They might be able to negotiate some group policy with someone this month.

I'm already talking to NYL, but this would be a great Plan B if they can work something out; could even be better than NYL too.
BruDude
Posts: 4203
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

tj wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:58 am
BruDude wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:38 am Update - John Hancock is suspending sales of all LTC rider policies on August 6. They now have a massive backlog of applications. If you haven’t applied yet, you better apply real quick before other companies do the same.
How many policies have you sold from people reading this thread? :mrgreen:
None that I can remember. I’ve been insanely busy trying to keep up with all of the ones I’ve already got in queue. This is going to be an absurd week and my brokerage is probably going to absolutely hate me for submitting a ton of $275 policies 😂
blacknotebooks
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:40 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by blacknotebooks »

Age 37 - received 2 quotes from Nationwide and NYL yesterday. Will be signing either this week since I'm late to the game and just want something in place before both companies stop taking applications to meet the opt out date. I am in the 200k+ category and expect salary to increase about 10% yearly for at least the next 3-5 years. Both are UL+LTC riders. Basically NW $1285.08/2 years vs. NYL $1,655.04/3years. Will get a quote from NYL for 2 years to compare "apples to apples".

Nationwide:
Premium received Annual: $1,285.08
Year 1 - Age 100
Total: $80,960.04 if paid to Age 100

Refund of Premium on Surrender Maximum LTC Benefit1
Total Long-term care benefit Day 1: $72,000
Age 80: $72,000
Maximum monthly LTC benefit Day 1: $3,000
Age 80: $3,000
LTC specified benefit period 2 years
Inflation protection option declined
Specified amount (amount
accelerated for long-term care)

$72,000.13
Note: The Net Death Benefit may be higher in some
years. See Net Death Benefit column of the Tabular
Detail.
Guaranteed minimum death benefit $14,400.03


NYL:
Asset Flex (ICC20-AF-MP)
Initial Face Amount: $108,000
Total Long-Term Care (LTC) Benefit Amount: $108,000
Total LTC Benefit Duration: 3 years
Monthly Benefit for LTC: $3,000
LTC Acceleration Benefit: $108,000
LTC Acceleration Benefit Duration: 3 years
Extension of Benefits (EOB) for Long-Term Care Rider (ICC20-
AF-MEOB):

Pay to Age 65 Annual Planned Premium Amount: $1,655.04
Total Planned Premium: $46,341.12
BruDude
Posts: 4203
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

blacknotebooks wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:08 am Age 37 - received 2 quotes from Nationwide and NYL yesterday. Will be signing either this week since I'm late to the game and just want something in place before both companies stop taking applications to meet the opt out date. I am in the 200k+ category and expect salary to increase about 10% yearly for at least the next 3-5 years. Both are UL+LTC riders. Basically NW $1285.08/2 years vs. NYL $1,655.04/3years. Will get a quote from NYL for 2 years to compare "apples to apples".

Nationwide:
Premium received Annual: $1,285.08
Year 1 - Age 100
Total: $80,960.04 if paid to Age 100

Refund of Premium on Surrender Maximum LTC Benefit1
Total Long-term care benefit Day 1: $72,000
Age 80: $72,000
Maximum monthly LTC benefit Day 1: $3,000
Age 80: $3,000
LTC specified benefit period 2 years
Inflation protection option declined
Specified amount (amount
accelerated for long-term care)

$72,000.13
Note: The Net Death Benefit may be higher in some
years. See Net Death Benefit column of the Tabular
Detail.
Guaranteed minimum death benefit $14,400.03


NYL:
Asset Flex (ICC20-AF-MP)
Initial Face Amount: $108,000
Total Long-Term Care (LTC) Benefit Amount: $108,000
Total LTC Benefit Duration: 3 years
Monthly Benefit for LTC: $3,000
LTC Acceleration Benefit: $108,000
LTC Acceleration Benefit Duration: 3 years
Extension of Benefits (EOB) for Long-Term Care Rider (ICC20-
AF-MEOB):

Pay to Age 65 Annual Planned Premium Amount: $1,655.04
Total Planned Premium: $46,341.12
You can get a $100k Nationwide No-Lapse Guarantee II UL policy with 2% LTC rider guaranteed to age 70 for about $250-400 depending on your health. Don't know why NYL is quoting you a pay to age 65 only policy if you just want this for opt-out purposes. The premium would be a lot lower if it was a lifetime pay policy.
Last edited by BruDude on Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tj »

BruDude wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:57 pm
blacknotebooks wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:08 am Age 37 - received 2 quotes from Nationwide and NYL yesterday. Will be signing either this week since I'm late to the game and just want something in place before both companies stop taking applications to meet the opt out date. I am in the 200k+ category and expect salary to increase about 10% yearly for at least the next 3-5 years. Both are UL+LTC riders. Basically NW $1285.08/2 years vs. NYL $1,655.04/3years. Will get a quote from NYL for 2 years to compare "apples to apples".

Nationwide:
Premium received Annual: $1,285.08
Year 1 - Age 100
Total: $80,960.04 if paid to Age 100

Refund of Premium on Surrender Maximum LTC Benefit1
Total Long-term care benefit Day 1: $72,000
Age 80: $72,000
Maximum monthly LTC benefit Day 1: $3,000
Age 80: $3,000
LTC specified benefit period 2 years
Inflation protection option declined
Specified amount (amount
accelerated for long-term care)

$72,000.13
Note: The Net Death Benefit may be higher in some
years. See Net Death Benefit column of the Tabular
Detail.
Guaranteed minimum death benefit $14,400.03


NYL:
Asset Flex (ICC20-AF-MP)
Initial Face Amount: $108,000
Total Long-Term Care (LTC) Benefit Amount: $108,000
Total LTC Benefit Duration: 3 years
Monthly Benefit for LTC: $3,000
LTC Acceleration Benefit: $108,000
LTC Acceleration Benefit Duration: 3 years
Extension of Benefits (EOB) for Long-Term Care Rider (ICC20-
AF-MEOB):

Pay to Age 65 Annual Planned Premium Amount: $1,655.04
Total Planned Premium: $46,341.12
You can get a $100k Nationwide No-Lapse Guarantee II UL policy with 2% LTC rider guaranteed to age 70 for about $250-400 depending on your health.

I'm guessing his agent doesn't want to sell a $250-$400 policy.
BruDude
Posts: 4203
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

tj wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:58 pm
I'm guessing his agent doesn't want to sell a $250-$400 policy.
Probably true, these policies can be a lot of work for very little money and still have the chance of lapsing in the first year if people just get their exemption and then drop the policy. A lot of people have no idea the Nationwide policy can be done to age 70 either, I didn't until I was messing around with the software. In fact, it is the only UL policy I have ever seen that has a guaranteed to age 70 only option...
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tj »

BruDude wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:01 pm
tj wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:58 pm
I'm guessing his agent doesn't want to sell a $250-$400 policy.
Probably true, these policies can be a lot of work for very little money and still have the chance of lapsing in the first year if people just get their exemption and then drop the policy. A lot of people have no idea the Nationwide policy can be done to age 70 either, I didn't until I was messing around with the software. In fact, it is the only UL policy I have ever seen that has a guaranteed to age 70 only option...
I'm guessing the UL Guaranteed to 70 is probably double - triple the cost of a 30 year term policy for a 40 year old? I guess for some people it could be worth it.
BruDude
Posts: 4203
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

tj wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:06 pm
BruDude wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 1:01 pm
tj wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:58 pm
I'm guessing his agent doesn't want to sell a $250-$400 policy.
Probably true, these policies can be a lot of work for very little money and still have the chance of lapsing in the first year if people just get their exemption and then drop the policy. A lot of people have no idea the Nationwide policy can be done to age 70 either, I didn't until I was messing around with the software. In fact, it is the only UL policy I have ever seen that has a guaranteed to age 70 only option...
I'm guessing the UL Guaranteed to 70 is probably double - triple the cost of a 30 year term policy for a 40 year old? I guess for some people it could be worth it.
Believe it or not, the UL to age 70 is actually cheaper than a 30-year term for a 40 year old male. Term is $225/year for $100k and UL to age 70 is $205. $500k term is $640 and $500k UL to age 70 is $618. Very strange...
Post Reply