Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

MrsBDG wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:57 am
Are you sure that will be eligible to get exempted from the tax? Supposedly you have to have a same or better plan as the state plan ($100/day benefit, $3000/month).
Have you seen this fact posted some place definitive?
Nope. I think that's an open question, unless the state has answered it. Officially, it does sound like any plan just needs to meet the requirements of RCW 48.83.020 (https://app.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=48.83.020), which does not detail out minimum benefit amount.
beachball
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by beachball »

Just wanted to make sure the NYL Asset flex LTC rider qualifies for the exemption:

Asset Flex (ICC20-AF-MP)
Initial Face Amount: $25,000
Total Long-Term Care (LTC) Benefit Amount: $77,000
Total LTC Benefit Duration: 6 years
Monthly Benefit for LTC: $1,000
LTC Acceleration Benefit: $25,000
LTC Acceleration Benefit Duration: 2 years
Extension of Benefits (EOB) for Long-Term Care Rider (ICC20-AF-MEOB):

Selected
EOB Benefit: $52,000
EOB Benefit Duration: 4 years
Return of Premium Rider (ICC20-AF-ROP): 80%

Could you guys please weigh in? We're being offered a reasonable premium (~400-500/year)
it'smyjob?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by it'smyjob? »

Are any companies selling LTC policies to twenty-somethings at this point?
RoyHobbs9
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

BruDude wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:29 pm Update for anyone with an H1B visa (or other visas):

Nationwide will not sell the LTC rider to someone on a visa. John Hancock requires a minimum of $1M policy size for visa holders. That does not leave many (any?) options. Currently checking on Omaha's guidelines for visa holders...
Nationwide just approved a LTC rider with my H1B client. I wrote a cover letter for her that included length of time in US, having a kid born here, a second mortgage on their forever home, husband most likely to get his green card in the fall (after being on the waitlist for 14 years), etc. I also included testimonies from their employers who plan on keeping them employed as both are highly-valued and highly-compensated employees. Finally, I had their immigration attorney send a letter on their behalf as well.

Approved, and now in-force.
Last edited by RoyHobbs9 on Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
RoyHobbs9
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

it'smyjob? wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:12 pm Are any companies selling LTC policies to twenty-somethings at this point?
Transamerica age 20+
AXA age 21+
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:05 pm
it'smyjob? wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:12 pm Are any companies selling LTC policies to twenty-somethings at this point?
Transamerica age 20+
AXA age 21+
Transamerica stopped selling long-term care insurance.
Are you referring to a life insurance policy with an LTC rider?
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:00 pm
BruDude wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:29 pm Update for anyone with an H1B visa (or other visas):

Nationwide will not sell the LTC rider to someone on a visa. John Hancock requires a minimum of $1M policy size for visa holders. That does not leave many (any?) options. Currently checking on Omaha's guidelines for visa holders...
Nationwide just approved a LTC rider with my H1B client. I wrote a cover letter for her that included length of time in US, having a kid born here, a second mortgage on their forever home, husband most likely to get his green card in the fall (after being on the waitlist for 14 years), etc. I also included testimonies from their employers who plan on keeping them employed as both are highly-valued and highly-compensated employees. Finally, I had their immigration attorney send a letter on their behalf as well.

Approved, and now in-force.
That's great but their underwriting guide clearly states LTC rider not available for anyone that isn't a US citizen or green card holder. I spoke with a Nationwide underwriter and they confirmed. Glad you were able to get it through but I wouldn't expect them to open the floodgates for all "desirable" H1B clients. I had the same thing happen with Mass Mutual disability insurance where they approved a few of my clients without a foreign travel exclusion even though they were supposed to get one, then they put their foot down and said no more of that allowed.
LeftCoastIV
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by LeftCoastIV »

Update for folks still looking:

New York Life offered $300/year for LTC that qualifies for the exemption. Mid-40s. Application submitted.

Nationwide said the best they could do was $125/month for $60K benefit, and the ability to receive a portion of your premiums back when you cancel.
phmbz
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by phmbz »

LeftCoastIV wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:02 pm Update for folks still looking:

New York Life offered $300/year for LTC that qualifies for the exemption. Mid-40s. Application submitted.

Nationwide said the best they could do was $125/month for $60K benefit, and the ability to receive a portion of your premiums back when you cancel.
Thx for sharing. Is it traditional LTCi or hybrid/asset-based LTCi? What's the daily/mthly benefit?
phmbz
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by phmbz »

MrsBDG wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:57 am
Are you sure that will be eligible to get exempted from the tax? Supposedly you have to have a same or better plan as the state plan ($100/day benefit, $3000/month).
Have you seen this fact posted some place definitive?
WA doesn't require any minimum. It doesn't have to be as good as or better. Put benefits aside, WA's plan's elimination is 45-day, most LTCi's is 90-day. If one has to be as good or better, most of us won't qualify even though the total benefit far exceeds the $36500 offered by WA.

Their website says exemption requirements are: age 18+ , purchase before 11/1/21, a qualifying plan from the state insurance commissioner's list.
http://www.wacaresfund.wa.gov/private-insurance/
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

LeftCoastIV wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:02 pm Update for folks still looking:

New York Life offered $300/year for LTC that qualifies for the exemption. Mid-40s. Application submitted.

Nationwide said the best they could do was $125/month for $60K benefit, and the ability to receive a portion of your premiums back when you cancel.
Thank you. I need to look into this right away as I'm way behind the ballgame.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

SweetFire wrote: Thu Jul 01, 2021 9:59 pm Most people only want the minimum to opt out.

Scott frames it as he will not sell you anything except this deluxe super expensive policy 'because of liability reasons'. What liability? [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
Are you sure the minimum is enough to get the exemption though? The last thing we want is to go super cheap and the state rejects your exemption claim later.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

jemscreen392 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:12 pm Hi folks. I was in a building that happened to have a Banker's Life office so I wandered in and asked about policies. I was told that I got lucky - TOMORROW is the last day they are accepting anyone under 50 in the state of WA. As has been discussed, many other companies are cutting back offers to WA residents.

Data point:
My wife and I can get $120/day 2-year coverage ($87,600) for $59/month. 30-day elimination, but no inflation coverage. You'll have to do your own math, but this is a significantly cheaper policy for better coverage for us.

So if you're under 50, your options are closing up very quickly. I suggest you move fast.
Why are they stopping to offer coverage? Isn't it like free business they didn't have before?
paradisenostril
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by paradisenostril »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 am
Why are they stopping to offer coverage? Isn't it like free business they didn't have before?
I suggest reading through this thread because these questions have been answered multiple times. The law, as passed by the legislature, only requires a one-time verification that you have insurance. Therefore, many people are expected to drop coverage after the check is complete. It is costly for an insurer to onboard someone who then drops coverage after making just one or two premium payments.
Are you sure the minimum is enough to get the exemption though? The last thing we want is to go super cheap and the state rejects your exemption claim later.
The state will not arbitrarily reject people for getting a "low" amount of coverage. The law only requires that the policy satisfies the definition of LTCI in Washington.
Topic Author
Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 am
jemscreen392 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:12 pm Hi folks. I was in a building that happened to have a Banker's Life office so I wandered in and asked about policies. I was told that I got lucky - TOMORROW is the last day they are accepting anyone under 50 in the state of WA. As has been discussed, many other companies are cutting back offers to WA residents.

Data point:
My wife and I can get $120/day 2-year coverage ($87,600) for $59/month. 30-day elimination, but no inflation coverage. You'll have to do your own math, but this is a significantly cheaper policy for better coverage for us.

So if you're under 50, your options are closing up very quickly. I suggest you move fast.
Why are they stopping to offer coverage? Isn't it like free business they didn't have before?
because there is a huge concern about people signing up and then cancelling once they have the opt-out. This isn't "free money" to the insurance company, its a huge headache to only get a couple of payments and cancellation.
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

paradisenostril wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:44 am

The law, as passed by the legislature, only requires a one-time verification that you have insurance.
You are incorrect.
Nowhere in the law does it say there will be a "one-time verification".
If I am wrong, please show me.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:20 am
paradisenostril wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:44 am

The law, as passed by the legislature, only requires a one-time verification that you have insurance.
You are incorrect.
Nowhere in the law does it say there will be a "one-time verification".
If I am wrong, please show me.
I don't know if you're wrong or not, but I've seen exemptions being mentioned as permanent. Here is one source: http://www.wacaresfund.wa.gov/private-insurance/
If your application is approved
You’ll get an exemption approval letter from ESD, at which point you’ll be:

Expelled from the program with no option to re-enroll.
Disqualified from accessing WA Cares benefits in your lifetime.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:58 am
WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:20 am
paradisenostril wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:44 am

The law, as passed by the legislature, only requires a one-time verification that you have insurance.
You are incorrect.
Nowhere in the law does it say there will be a "one-time verification".
If I am wrong, please show me.
I don't know if you're wrong or not, but I've seen exemptions being mentioned as permanent. Here is one source: http://www.wacaresfund.wa.gov/private-insurance/
If your application is approved
You’ll get an exemption approval letter from ESD, at which point you’ll be:

Expelled from the program with no option to re-enroll.
Disqualified from accessing WA Cares benefits in your lifetime.

You are conflating the "attestation" and the "verification".
They are two different things.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:10 am
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:58 am
WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:20 am
paradisenostril wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:44 am

The law, as passed by the legislature, only requires a one-time verification that you have insurance.
You are incorrect.
Nowhere in the law does it say there will be a "one-time verification".
If I am wrong, please show me.
I don't know if you're wrong or not, but I've seen exemptions being mentioned as permanent. Here is one source: http://www.wacaresfund.wa.gov/private-insurance/
If your application is approved
You’ll get an exemption approval letter from ESD, at which point you’ll be:

Expelled from the program with no option to re-enroll.
Disqualified from accessing WA Cares benefits in your lifetime.

You are conflating the "attestation" and the "verification".
They are two different things.
I'm not confusing anything. This one-time deal is what everyone is talking about.

Obviously if someone moves to Washington State in 2025, their process will be different.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:13 am
I'm not confusing anything. This one-time deal is what everyone is talking about.

Obviously if someone moves to Washington State in 2025, their process will be different.

You are conflating the attestation and the verification.

The attestation is what you need to do only once.
You'll do it sometime between 10/1/2021 and 12/31/2022.
As long as you're 18 or over and attest to owning long-term care insurance by 11/1/2021, your opt-out will be approved.

The verification by ESD is not done at the time that you attest.
The verification can be done whenever the ESD decides to do it.
The ESD has provided no details about the verification.
Per the law, they do not have to verify, but they can.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:27 am You are conflating the attestation and the verification.

The attestation is what you need to do only once.
You'll do it sometime between 10/1/2021 and 12/31/2022.
As long as you're 18 or over and attest to owning long-term care insurance by 11/1/2021, your opt-out will be approved.

The verification by ESD is not done at the time that you attest.
The verification can be done whenever the ESD decides to do it.
The ESD has provided no details about the verification.
Per the law, they do not have to verify, but they can.
But you realize opt-out is permanent in your lifetime right? There is nothing to verify. Once you're out, you can't re-enroll.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:46 am
WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:27 am You are conflating the attestation and the verification.

The attestation is what you need to do only once.
You'll do it sometime between 10/1/2021 and 12/31/2022.
As long as you're 18 or over and attest to owning long-term care insurance by 11/1/2021, your opt-out will be approved.

The verification by ESD is not done at the time that you attest.
The verification can be done whenever the ESD decides to do it.
The ESD has provided no details about the verification.
Per the law, they do not have to verify, but they can.
But you realize opt-out is permanent in your lifetime right? There is nothing to verify. Once you're out, you can't re-enroll.
Being unable to re-enroll is not the same as ESD revoking someone's opt-out. The law gives the ESD the right to verify. They knew people would try to skirt the law.

50B.04.085 (3): The employment security department is not required to verify the attestation of an employee that the employee has long-term care insurance.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
czaj
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by czaj »

WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:27 am
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:13 am
I'm not confusing anything. This one-time deal is what everyone is talking about.

Obviously if someone moves to Washington State in 2025, their process will be different.

You are conflating the attestation and the verification.

The attestation is what you need to do only once.
You'll do it sometime between 10/1/2021 and 12/31/2022.
As long as you're 18 or over and attest to owning long-term care insurance by 11/1/2021, your opt-out will be approved.

The verification by ESD is not done at the time that you attest.
The verification can be done whenever the ESD decides to do it.
The ESD has provided no details about the verification.
Per the law, they do not have to verify, but they can.
I think there is “reading between the lines” on both sides. The law does not state anything about the verification process. After an application is approved, it’s not clear if they can or cannot verify or audit after the fact. (They probably can, but this could be an expensive process)

My guess is the application will be rigorous in the sense that you’ll need to upload documentation. If that documentation isn’t sufficient, you won’t get approved and that this will be their main verification process.
jstorz
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jstorz »

czaj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:02 pm I think there is “reading between the lines” on both sides.
Everyone is saying "permanent opt-out" too as if the law can't be changed in a future year. If this ends up being a disaster with the majority of higher income people opting out, there may be enough pressure to alter the deal.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:00 pm Being unable to re-enroll is not the same as ESD revoking someone's opt-out. The law gives the ESD the right to verify. They knew people would try to skirt the law.

50B.04.085 (3): The employment security department is not required to verify the attestation of an employee that the employee has long-term care insurance.
You're right. At this point no one knows what the verification process will be, if the ESD will verify anyone at all.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

I will be very surprised if they don't put any future verification system in place. Dropping the policy right after getting the exemption could be a huge mistake as a future verification system would likely be based on the policy date and if you drop the existing one, you may be forced into paying the tax forever. If I lived in WA I'd plan on keeping it for at least 5 years to see what future changes are made. Worth the few bucks to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot and wind up paying the tax every year for life, IMO.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:11 pm I will be very surprised if they don't put any future verification system in place. Dropping the policy right after getting the exemption could be a huge mistake as a future verification system would likely be based on the policy date and if you drop the existing one, you may be forced into paying the tax forever. If I lived in WA I'd plan on keeping it for at least 5 years to see what future changes are made. Worth the few bucks to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot and wind up paying the tax every year for life, IMO.
It's a tough call. Carrying a policy you don't need / want for 5 years ain't cheap either. Effectively you're taking the tax hit for 5 years in a different form.

I'll continue shopping for coverage, but if it doesn't work out then I might simply look to move elsewhere, like Texas.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:20 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:11 pm I will be very surprised if they don't put any future verification system in place. Dropping the policy right after getting the exemption could be a huge mistake as a future verification system would likely be based on the policy date and if you drop the existing one, you may be forced into paying the tax forever. If I lived in WA I'd plan on keeping it for at least 5 years to see what future changes are made. Worth the few bucks to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot and wind up paying the tax every year for life, IMO.
It's a tough call. Carrying a policy you don't need / want for 5 years ain't cheap either. Effectively you're taking the tax hit for 5 years in a different form.

I'll continue shopping for coverage, but if it doesn't work out then I might simply look to move elsewhere, like Texas.
Better to take a $300-500 hit for a few years than wind up paying thousands in tax every year forever. I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to dealing with the government and tax laws.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:24 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:20 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:11 pm I will be very surprised if they don't put any future verification system in place. Dropping the policy right after getting the exemption could be a huge mistake as a future verification system would likely be based on the policy date and if you drop the existing one, you may be forced into paying the tax forever. If I lived in WA I'd plan on keeping it for at least 5 years to see what future changes are made. Worth the few bucks to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot and wind up paying the tax every year for life, IMO.
It's a tough call. Carrying a policy you don't need / want for 5 years ain't cheap either. Effectively you're taking the tax hit for 5 years in a different form.

I'll continue shopping for coverage, but if it doesn't work out then I might simply look to move elsewhere, like Texas.
Better to take a $300-500 hit for a few years than wind up paying thousands in tax every year forever. I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to dealing with the government and tax laws.
Oh, if your premium is $300-500 then no doubt. I was looking at NGL who demands at least $2K, or so I read.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:25 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:24 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:20 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:11 pm I will be very surprised if they don't put any future verification system in place. Dropping the policy right after getting the exemption could be a huge mistake as a future verification system would likely be based on the policy date and if you drop the existing one, you may be forced into paying the tax forever. If I lived in WA I'd plan on keeping it for at least 5 years to see what future changes are made. Worth the few bucks to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot and wind up paying the tax every year for life, IMO.
It's a tough call. Carrying a policy you don't need / want for 5 years ain't cheap either. Effectively you're taking the tax hit for 5 years in a different form.

I'll continue shopping for coverage, but if it doesn't work out then I might simply look to move elsewhere, like Texas.
Better to take a $300-500 hit for a few years than wind up paying thousands in tax every year forever. I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to dealing with the government and tax laws.
Oh, if your premium is $300-500 then no doubt. I was looking at NGL who demands at least $2K, or so I read.
Correct, NGL is minimum $2k/year premium now. Nationwide and NYL still have options that are dirt cheap though depending on your age and health....for now.

Nationwide is currently 3 weeks behind on processing any apps so anyone on the fence better apply ASAP if they want their policy approved before the November 1 deadline. It will only get worse from here as more people find out about this.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:28 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:25 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:24 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:20 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:11 pm I will be very surprised if they don't put any future verification system in place. Dropping the policy right after getting the exemption could be a huge mistake as a future verification system would likely be based on the policy date and if you drop the existing one, you may be forced into paying the tax forever. If I lived in WA I'd plan on keeping it for at least 5 years to see what future changes are made. Worth the few bucks to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot and wind up paying the tax every year for life, IMO.
It's a tough call. Carrying a policy you don't need / want for 5 years ain't cheap either. Effectively you're taking the tax hit for 5 years in a different form.

I'll continue shopping for coverage, but if it doesn't work out then I might simply look to move elsewhere, like Texas.
Better to take a $300-500 hit for a few years than wind up paying thousands in tax every year forever. I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to dealing with the government and tax laws.
Oh, if your premium is $300-500 then no doubt. I was looking at NGL who demands at least $2K, or so I read.
Correct, NGL is minimum $2k/year premium now. Nationwide and NYL still have options that are dirt cheap though depending on your age and health....for now.

Nationwide is currently 3 weeks behind on processing any apps so anyone on the fence better apply ASAP if they want their policy approved before the November 1 deadline. It will only get worse from here as more people find out about this.
I am waiting for NYL "financial professional" or whatever to call me back, though there is an office 20 minutes away. Can I just walk in and talk to someone there instead?

Nationwide I wasn't aware and I need to start looking into them, thanks.
softmax
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:27 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by softmax »

Hi folks, I'm comparing two products and they both seem to have some advantages to me.
They are both qualified for opt out and they are both the cheapest policy being offered.
I have no plan to leave WA so I'm also thinking long term. Which one looks better to you?

1) Universal Life product + LTC rider negotiated by my company ($40/month, $80,000 benefit),
Pros:
  • Premium is fixed
  • No underwriting. Guaranteed.
  • Some negligible cash value
Cons:
  • More expensive
2) NY Life ($25/month, $36,500 benefit)
Pros:
  • Cheaper
Cons:
  • Underwriting could take forever and it's not guaranteed
  • Premium can go up
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Nationwide is offering something called Long-Term Care Rider II, which seems like an add-on on top of life insurance. Does this mean I need to purchase a Nationwide life + LTC rider combo?

I guess I might need a standalone policy as my life insurance is through employer not Nationwide.
paradisenostril
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:19 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by paradisenostril »

WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:20 am
paradisenostril wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:44 am

The law, as passed by the legislature, only requires a one-time verification that you have insurance.
You are incorrect.
Nowhere in the law does it say there will be a "one-time verification".
If I am wrong, please show me.
My interpretation is that ESD could "verify" as much as they want but they are limited to only verifying whether the attestation is accurate ("The employment security department is not required to verify the attestation"). In other words, whether the individual had coverage before 11/1/21. Whether you call that a one-time attestation vs one-time verification is a matter of semantics because the attestation and verification are part of the same process. Personally, I will be keeping my policy for a longer period of time in case the law is changed and as a courtesy to my agent so he doesn't get a chargeback.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Does anyone know if we can just walk into NYL's General Office or whatever? There's one about 20 minutes away from my place, but I've never been to a big insurance office without an appointment.
BruDude
Posts: 4203
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

softmax wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:35 pm Hi folks, I'm comparing two products and they both seem to have some advantages to me.
They are both qualified for opt out and they are both the cheapest policy being offered.
I have no plan to leave WA so I'm also thinking long term. Which one looks better to you?

1) Universal Life product + LTC rider negotiated by my company ($40/month, $80,000 benefit),
Pros:
  • Premium is fixed
  • No underwriting. Guaranteed.
  • Some negligible cash value
Cons:
  • More expensive
2) NY Life ($25/month, $36,500 benefit)
Pros:
  • Cheaper
Cons:
  • Underwriting could take forever and it's not guaranteed
  • Premium can go up
Take the policy from your company and then apply with NYL. You can always keep the group one if the NYL policy doesn't work out for whatever reason, but if you don't opt into the group one and then get declined for some reason, you'll be in a difficult spot.
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:57 pm Nationwide is offering something called Long-Term Care Rider II, which seems like an add-on on top of life insurance. Does this mean I need to purchase a Nationwide life + LTC rider combo?

I guess I might need a standalone policy as my life insurance is through employer not Nationwide.
The LTC rider has to be attached to a UL policy, it can't be purchased standalone or with term insurance. The no-lapse UL guaranteed to age 70 only (instead of age 120) with the LTC rider will be the cheapest option.
WoW2012
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:18 pm Does anyone know if we can just walk into NYL's General Office or whatever? There's one about 20 minutes away from my place, but I've never been to a big insurance office without an appointment.

Fortune favors the bold.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:42 pm The LTC rider has to be attached to a UL policy, it can't be purchased standalone or with term insurance. The no-lapse UL guaranteed to age 70 only (instead of age 120) with the LTC rider will be the cheapest option.
Thank you. I guess it kind of sucks in that I have life insurance through employer...I'll figure out what my options are. NYL seems like the best option still.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:46 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:18 pm Does anyone know if we can just walk into NYL's General Office or whatever? There's one about 20 minutes away from my place, but I've never been to a big insurance office without an appointment.
Fortune favors the bold.
I'm doing whatever I can. Waiting for a NYL call-back (48-hour window), got contact info of an agent via FB whom I just emailed. If neither option goes anywhere then I'll rush to the office.
tj
Posts: 9314
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tj »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:47 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:42 pm The LTC rider has to be attached to a UL policy, it can't be purchased standalone or with term insurance. The no-lapse UL guaranteed to age 70 only (instead of age 120) with the LTC rider will be the cheapest option.
Thank you. I guess it kind of sucks in that I have life insurance through employer...I'll figure out what my options are. NYL seems like the best option still.
Why does it suck?
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:52 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:47 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:42 pm The LTC rider has to be attached to a UL policy, it can't be purchased standalone or with term insurance. The no-lapse UL guaranteed to age 70 only (instead of age 120) with the LTC rider will be the cheapest option.
Thank you. I guess it kind of sucks in that I have life insurance through employer...I'll figure out what my options are. NYL seems like the best option still.
Why does it suck?
If I understand correctly, I need to take out Nationwide UL in order to do Nationwide LTC rider. That means I'd be paying an extra life insurance policy out of pocket, when I don't really need the product.
tj
Posts: 9314
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tj »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:54 pm
tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:52 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:47 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:42 pm The LTC rider has to be attached to a UL policy, it can't be purchased standalone or with term insurance. The no-lapse UL guaranteed to age 70 only (instead of age 120) with the LTC rider will be the cheapest option.
Thank you. I guess it kind of sucks in that I have life insurance through employer...I'll figure out what my options are. NYL seems like the best option still.
Why does it suck?
If I understand correctly, I need to take out Nationwide UL in order to do Nationwide LTC rider. That means I'd be paying an extra life insurance policy out of pocket, when I don't really need the product.
What does need have to do with it? Aren't you just trying to avoid a tax?
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:55 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:54 pm
tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:52 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:47 pm
BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:42 pm The LTC rider has to be attached to a UL policy, it can't be purchased standalone or with term insurance. The no-lapse UL guaranteed to age 70 only (instead of age 120) with the LTC rider will be the cheapest option.
Thank you. I guess it kind of sucks in that I have life insurance through employer...I'll figure out what my options are. NYL seems like the best option still.
Why does it suck?
If I understand correctly, I need to take out Nationwide UL in order to do Nationwide LTC rider. That means I'd be paying an extra life insurance policy out of pocket, when I don't really need the product.
What does need have to do with it? Aren't you just trying to avoid a tax?
I love how you phrased it...made it sound like I'm doing something illegal :D
tj
Posts: 9314
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tj »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:04 pm
tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:55 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:54 pm
tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:52 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:47 pm

Thank you. I guess it kind of sucks in that I have life insurance through employer...I'll figure out what my options are. NYL seems like the best option still.
Why does it suck?
If I understand correctly, I need to take out Nationwide UL in order to do Nationwide LTC rider. That means I'd be paying an extra life insurance policy out of pocket, when I don't really need the product.
What does need have to do with it? Aren't you just trying to avoid a tax?
I love how you phrased it...made it sound like I'm doing something illegal :D
Nothing illegal about avoiding taxes.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:05 pm Nothing illegal about avoiding taxes.
Yeah, to the original question, I guess we'd be looking for the cheapest option out there. I don't know the pricing of UL + rider, but it might be more expensive than a standalone LTCI policy. I'm still gathering agents; so far NGL offering $2000/year minimum and I'm looking for other options.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:50 pm I'm doing whatever I can. Waiting for a NYL call-back (48-hour window), got contact info of an agent via FB whom I just emailed. If neither option goes anywhere then I'll rush to the office.
WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:46 pm
Just to follow up, the person on FB gave me a NYL contact who's been responding via email and I made an appointment for next week at the NYL general office. No need to rush in any more :-D
BruDude
Posts: 4203
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:40 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:50 pm I'm doing whatever I can. Waiting for a NYL call-back (48-hour window), got contact info of an agent via FB whom I just emailed. If neither option goes anywhere then I'll rush to the office.
WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:46 pm
Just to follow up, the person on FB gave me a NYL contact who's been responding via email and I made an appointment for next week at the NYL general office. No need to rush in any more :-D
You might need to rush if they change their underwriting guidelines, product benefit minimums, or institute other new requirements. Companies have been pulling products with no warning and raising minimum benefit levels. NYL might be the last company left other than Nationwide that hasn't done it yet.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:09 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:40 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:50 pm I'm doing whatever I can. Waiting for a NYL call-back (48-hour window), got contact info of an agent via FB whom I just emailed. If neither option goes anywhere then I'll rush to the office.
WoW2012 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:46 pm
Just to follow up, the person on FB gave me a NYL contact who's been responding via email and I made an appointment for next week at the NYL general office. No need to rush in any more :-D
You might need to rush if they change their underwriting guidelines, product benefit minimums, or institute other new requirements. Companies have been pulling products with no warning and raising minimum benefit levels. NYL might be the last company left other than Nationwide that hasn't done it yet.
I'm fully aware of the urgency. I pretty much spent 2~3 hours yesterday on this, understanding the situation as I'm way late to the game. I asked the NYL agent if they can expedite the appointment from next week. My appointment is now later this week.
softmax
Posts: 299
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:27 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by softmax »

BruDude wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:42 pm Take the policy from your company and then apply with NYL. You can always keep the group one if the NYL policy doesn't work out for whatever reason, but if you don't opt into the group one and then get declined for some reason, you'll be in a difficult spot.
Thank you. This is also my plan. I confirmed that the policy negotiated by my company can be cancelled at any time so the highest priority is to secure the opt-out.
RoyHobbs9
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:03 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

WoW2012 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:19 pm
RoyHobbs9 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:05 pm
it'smyjob? wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:12 pm Are any companies selling LTC policies to twenty-somethings at this point?
Transamerica age 20+
AXA age 21+
Transamerica stopped selling long-term care insurance.
Are you referring to a life insurance policy with an LTC rider?
Yes. Transamerica LI with LTC Rider is still available, but paper only, and no expedited underwriting.
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