Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

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Impromptu
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Impromptu »

I am posting so others can see what is currently being offered. My recent experience is with Banker's Life. I was told they stopped offering 365 day plans and only offered 500 day plans. 42 year old male, 1 low dose medication, spouse NOT applying, $100/day, 30 days elimination period (30 days added 15% to premium compared to 90 days, but broker thought 90 days wouldn't meet state requirements), 3% yearly inflation, $3000 home disability modifications rider (added 5% to premium), restoration of benefits rider (another 5% to premiums).

This plan costs $640/year, or $53/month. If I had found a different broker who agreed to a 90 days elimination, no home modifications, and no restoration of benefits it would be roughly 25% cheaper, $480/ year, or about $40/month.

For me either option would be significantly cheaper than the tax, especially if permanently exempted from tax.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
tomsense76
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tomsense76 »

czaj wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 4:40 pm
Cucumbers wrote: Sat Jun 19, 2021 3:14 pm Another data point- quote from NYLife for bare-bones policy (365 waiting period, $50/day, $36500 cap, CPI inflation) was $15/month with spousal discount of 25%. If this is legit I’m not sure why everyone (even current self-employed) wouldn’t sign up!
I think some people and LTC brokers would have an issue with the $50/day since it's less than the WA state policy.

With that said, it does look appealing to me given the cost. Bankers Life isn't going that low. Who did you go through to get the quote? And is that $15/month for you alone or both of you?
Yeah I talked to a NYL agent and they said the LTC plan wouldn't qualify. They were pushing an LTC + UL plan (guessing similar to the John Hancock product mentioned earlier in the thread). Though the quote I got for that was quite a bit higher than others in this thread. Still lower than the tax in my case, but I doubt that will be universal. Other LTC + UL plans (or combinations of options with NYL) may be lower.

One benefit of the LTC + UL plan is some will allow refunds of the premiums after some # of years of payment. It's hard to tell if this is a good idea or not. On the one hand it is more expensive and if canceled soon the premiums paid are toast. However on the other hand if Washington State starts mandating people continue to hold a LTC policy (after being opted out), it could be beneficial to continue paying into this plan for some time and after one leaves the state or retires redeem the premiums paid.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
tj
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tj »

Impromptu wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:13 pm I am posting so others can see what is currently being offered. My recent experience is with Banker's Life. I was told they stopped offering 365 day plans and only offered 500 day plans. 42 year old male, 1 low dose medication, spouse NOT applying, $100/day, 30 days elimination period (30 days added 15% to premium compared to 90 days, but broker thought 90 days wouldn't meet state requirements), 3% yearly inflation, $3000 home disability modifications rider (added 5% to premium), restoration of benefits rider (another 5% to premiums).

This plan costs $640/year, or $53/month. If I had found a different broker who agreed to a 90 days elimination, no home modifications, and no restoration of benefits it would be roughly 25% cheaper, $480/ year, or about $40/month.

For me either option would be significantly cheaper than the tax, especially if permanently exempted from tax.
I don't see how a different broker could "agree" to giving you better underwriting. Underwriters do underwriting. If it's backed by the same insurer, it's going to be the same.
Impromptu
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Impromptu »

tj wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:14 am
Impromptu wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:13 pm I am posting so others can see what is currently being offered. My recent experience is with Banker's Life. I was told they stopped offering 365 day plans and only offered 500 day plans. 42 year old male, 1 low dose medication, spouse NOT applying, $100/day, 30 days elimination period (30 days added 15% to premium compared to 90 days, but broker thought 90 days wouldn't meet state requirements), 3% yearly inflation, $3000 home disability modifications rider (added 5% to premium), restoration of benefits rider (another 5% to premiums).

This plan costs $640/year, or $53/month. If I had found a different broker who agreed to a 90 days elimination, no home modifications, and no restoration of benefits it would be roughly 25% cheaper, $480/ year, or about $40/month.

For me either option would be significantly cheaper than the tax, especially if permanently exempted from tax.
I don't see how a different broker could "agree" to giving you better underwriting. Underwriters do underwriting. If it's backed by the same insurer, it's going to be the same.
For clarity the lower price would be if I did not add in those 2 extra riders and had a 90 days elimination period instead of 30 days (number of days of self pay before benefits kicked in). I am not confident of the insurance agent's assertion that a 90 days elimination period would not be a qualifying plan.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
miuichigo
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by miuichigo »

Impromptu wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:13 pm I am posting so others can see what is currently being offered. My recent experience is with Banker's Life. I was told they stopped offering 365 day plans and only offered 500 day plans. 42 year old male, 1 low dose medication, spouse NOT applying, $100/day, 30 days elimination period (30 days added 15% to premium compared to 90 days, but broker thought 90 days wouldn't meet state requirements), 3% yearly inflation, $3000 home disability modifications rider (added 5% to premium), restoration of benefits rider (another 5% to premiums).

This plan costs $640/year, or $53/month. If I had found a different broker who agreed to a 90 days elimination, no home modifications, and no restoration of benefits it would be roughly 25% cheaper, $480/ year, or about $40/month.

For me either option would be significantly cheaper than the tax, especially if permanently exempted from tax.
This was my recent experience as well regarding "lowest offerings" being 500 day minimum + 30 day elimination period w/ Banker's Life. So far, their quote has been the best though as an under 40.

Nationwide is also willing to insure under 40s, but their quote was double Bankers.

Haven't been able to get in contact w/ John Hancock for a more personalized quote (the one I'd gotten before was just a fwd of an email sent to another person my same age/gender...) - any tips there?
czaj
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by czaj »

Recent quote from New York Life is indicating the cheapest they can go is around $550 in premium for me and my wife (less than 30). About the same benefits as Bankers (about 50K max) but lower premium. Broker indicated that we get started on application/underwriting ASAP to secure that amount. I think this is the best policy I’ll find.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

For anyone on the fence at the moment I would suggest buying something ASAP before the remaining insurance companies increase their required minimum benefits. That seems like a strong possibility in the near future.
jemscreen392
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jemscreen392 »

I'm starting to make calls today. A few questions:

1) Are we still operating under the assumption that ANY coverage will qualify for exemption? I know there was some confusion early on, but it seems like the consensus was that the language states that any coverage will work.
2) If 1 is true, then what kind of cheap policies are people getting?
3) It looks, from recent posts, that Banker's Life and New York Life are going to be the cheapest. Anyone find any other "cheap" options?
4) Anyone suggest a WA broker that can compare across multiple companies? Not looking forward to hours of phone calls.
5) Any important questions to ask other than "what's your cheapest policy" and "I can cancel at any time, correct?"

Thx.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

jemscreen392 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:11 pm I'm starting to make calls today. A few questions:

1) Are we still operating under the assumption that ANY coverage will qualify for exemption? I know there was some confusion early on, but it seems like the consensus was that the language states that any coverage will work.
2) If 1 is true, then what kind of cheap policies are people getting?
3) It looks, from recent posts, that Banker's Life and New York Life are going to be the cheapest. Anyone find any other "cheap" options?
4) Anyone suggest a WA broker that can compare across multiple companies? Not looking forward to hours of phone calls.
5) Any important questions to ask other than "what's your cheapest policy" and "I can cancel at any time, correct?"

Thx.
If you use a broker, just make sure you keep the policy at least a year so the agent doesn't get a chargeback for the commission. Not to mention that's probably a good idea just in case WA changes their reporting requirements to show active coverage. I have a feeling there's going to be a lot of agents that are going to get some massive chargebacks when people start canceling these policies as soon as they get an exemption. It would really suck to do all of that work for no money.
ronin
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by ronin »

Does anyone know exactly what W-2 income will be subjected to the .58% tax? Is it only W-2 income earned within WA state, or could it include W-2 income earned outside of WA state by a WA state resident?
czaj
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by czaj »

ronin wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:06 pm Does anyone know exactly what W-2 income will be subjected to the .58% tax? Is it only W-2 income earned within WA state, or could it include W-2 income earned outside of WA state by a WA state resident?
Only income earned in WA state. Similar to the WA PFML, except all earned income (not capped at SS base).

So if you live in WA and work in OR, you will not be subject to the tax. If you think you may work in WA state in the future, you still may want to consider opting out.
jstorz
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jstorz »

czaj wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:22 pm Only income earned in WA state. Similar to the WA PFML, except all earned income (not capped at SS base).

So if you live in WA and work in OR, you will not be subject to the tax. If you think you may work in WA state in the future, you still may want to consider opting out.
Pretty sure you have that backwards... I have read that if you live in WA all your income is subject to the tax. Similar to WA PFML - I have a friend who works remote for an employer in CA, and WA PFML is withheld from his paychecks.
jstorz
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jstorz »

jstorz wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:13 am
czaj wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:22 pm Only income earned in WA state. Similar to the WA PFML, except all earned income (not capped at SS base).

So if you live in WA and work in OR, you will not be subject to the tax. If you think you may work in WA state in the future, you still may want to consider opting out.
Pretty sure you have that backwards... I have read that if you live in WA all your W2 income is subject to the tax. Similar to WA PFML - I have a friend who works remote for an employer in CA, and WA PFML is withheld from his paychecks.
czaj
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by czaj »

jstorz wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:13 am
czaj wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:22 pm Only income earned in WA state. Similar to the WA PFML, except all earned income (not capped at SS base).

So if you live in WA and work in OR, you will not be subject to the tax. If you think you may work in WA state in the future, you still may want to consider opting out.
Pretty sure you have that backwards... I have read that if you live in WA all your income is subject to the tax. Similar to WA PFML - I have a friend who works remote for an employer in CA, and WA PFML is withheld from his paychecks.
Your friend is working in WA, not CA, so that is correct.

I wasn’t referring to where the employer is located; I was referring to where the employee physically works.
jstorz
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jstorz »

czaj wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:28 am
jstorz wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:13 am
czaj wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:22 pm Only income earned in WA state. Similar to the WA PFML, except all earned income (not capped at SS base).

So if you live in WA and work in OR, you will not be subject to the tax. If you think you may work in WA state in the future, you still may want to consider opting out.
Pretty sure you have that backwards... I have read that if you live in WA all your income is subject to the tax. Similar to WA PFML - I have a friend who works remote for an employer in CA, and WA PFML is withheld from his paychecks.
Your friend is working in WA, not CA, so that is correct.

I wasn’t referring to where the employer is located; I was referring to where the employee physically works.
Oh I see, if you commute across the border? Yes that sounds right.

What if you live in OR but work in WA? Not elegible to get benefits...
czaj
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by czaj »

jstorz wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:11 am What if you live in OR but work in WA? Not elegible to get benefits...
You’ll pay the tax, but I believe you’ll only be eligible for benefits if you become a Washington resident (and vested in the program).
BestCoast123
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BestCoast123 »

Do you have to be a WA State Resident to Opt Out?

Sister is overseas. Her and husband are likely coming back to WA State eventually? Can they get LTC coverage and hit the necessary deadlines and get an Opt Out Letter?

My reading is you need to be 18 and you need to have coverage... I don't see anything about needing to be a resident.
jemscreen392
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jemscreen392 »

Hi folks. I was in a building that happened to have a Banker's Life office so I wandered in and asked about policies. I was told that I got lucky - TOMORROW is the last day they are accepting anyone under 50 in the state of WA. As has been discussed, many other companies are cutting back offers to WA residents.

Data point:
My wife and I can get $120/day 2-year coverage ($87,600) for $59/month. 30-day elimination, but no inflation coverage. You'll have to do your own math, but this is a significantly cheaper policy for better coverage for us.

So if you're under 50, your options are closing up very quickly. I suggest you move fast.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

jemscreen392 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:12 pm Hi folks. I was in a building that happened to have a Banker's Life office so I wandered in and asked about policies. I was told that I got lucky - TOMORROW is the last day they are accepting anyone under 50 in the state of WA. As has been discussed, many other companies are cutting back offers to WA residents.

Data point:
My wife and I can get $120/day 2-year coverage ($87,600) for $59/month. 30-day elimination, but no inflation coverage. You'll have to do your own math, but this is a significantly cheaper policy for better coverage for us.

So if you're under 50, your options are closing up very quickly. I suggest you move fast.
Figured that would be the case. New York Life will soon follow I’m sure.
phmbz
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by phmbz »

Thx for the info shared.

Curious what you think of the guaranteed hybrid LTC plan(so no lapse): 7702b tax code, set premium paid over a set period of time (1-yr, 5-yr, or 10-yr then be done with it), death benefits about the same amount of premium you get, 2/3/4/5% guaranteed inflation, cash indemnity so once you qualify for 2 out of 6 ADL activities you can take the max monthly benefits out and spend/invest it on whatever you wish. 4-6 max benefit year. 90-day elimination period which I was told pretty typical.

The premium is high. But if most ppl will qualify for LTC sooner or later, unless the insured dies unexpectedly in an accident, assume if the insured stay qualified for at least 4-6 more yrs thus take all the max benefit (varies depending on age when qualified), can this LTCi be considered also as a retirement income esp. since its payout is tax free (as long as it's under IRS threshold)? The ROI calculated is pretty decent. Am I missing anything here?

Can this LTCi be used for opting out? I read previous discussion says the law says pretty much any LTCi (traditional or 7702b rider) can qualify. What if the initial daily benefit is less than $100/day (but will grow over time to pass that thx to the inflation%), can that be used by the government to potentially deny exemption request? How about the 90-day elimination period?

Thank you.
Last edited by phmbz on Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.
tomsense76
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tomsense76 »

phmbz wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:35 pm Thx for the info shared.

Curious what you think of the guaranteed hybrid LTC plan(so no lapse): 7702b tax code, set premium paid over a set period of time (1-yr, 5-yr, or 10-yr then be done with it), death benefits about the same amount of premium you get, 2/3/4/5% guaranteed inflation, cash indemnity so once you qualify for 2 out of 6 ADL activities you can take the max monthly benefits out and spend/invest it on whatever you wish. 4-6 max benefit year. 90-day elimination period which I was told pretty typical.

The premium is high. But if most ppl will qualify for LTC sooner or later, unless the insured dies unexpectedly in an accident, assume if the insured stay qualified for at least 4-6 more yrs thus take all the max benefit (varies depending on age when qualified), can this LTCi be considered also as a retirement income esp. since its payout is tax free (as long as it's under IRS threshold)? The ROI calculated is pretty decent. Am I missing anything here?

Can this LTCi be used for opting out? I read previous discussion says the law says pretty much any LTCi (traditional or 7702b rider) can qualify. What if the initial daily benefit is less than $100/day (but will grow over time to pass that thx to the inflation%), can that be used by the government to potentially deny exemption request? How about the 90-day elimination period?

Thank you.
Am curious to hear responses on this as well. That said, this is probably what I'm going to do. At this point it is more inertia than anything else. The plan seems ok, is still less than the tax in my case, one can reimburse the premiums after paying for a certain period of time (say if I move out of state for example), and at this point already have an application being processed (which is good as options are drying up).

That said, this is probably not something I would have done without this tax being put in place or if the benefit for the state program (compared to what I would be paying) didn't have a significant discrepancy. When comparing the ROI to a stock/bond portfolio, the return is a bit more mediocre (especially for those of us with hopefully many more years to live & work). This is why normally I would have passed on this and self-insured. However with the tax on the table this looks more appealing. I think the second thing I don't like about these plans is they are trying to do too much. IOW why can't I just get term-life for death benefit instead of lumping it in with LTC?

Some of the plans will reimburse you for the previous 90-days (I believe Nationwide does this). Though their plan was even more expensive than others I saw. The other thing worth checking is seeing what the plan does with any unused benefit for a month. IOW does it go away, do they give it to you anyways (cash indemnity is the term), or do they stretch out the amount of benefit you get? Finally the long term care benefit and death benefit seem to be typically linked in these plans. IOW if one unfortunately dies sooner while using LTC their death benefit may be larger or vice versa. So do your homework on these things.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
binvesting
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by binvesting »

Quick question about this policy called Asset Flex from NYLife. Its a long-term care and life insurance combined into one product. Is this policy acceptable to opt out of the WA tax? https://www.newyorklife.com/products/lo ... asset-flex.
professor_americus
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by professor_americus »

Just got off of an application call with Banker's Life.

Today is the last day they are processing applications for folks under 50 years old (I'm 38). So if you don't have an application already in their system, Bankers will probably be a dead end.

About $33/month for barebones $50k policy with 2% inflation.

My employer has optional group coverage through YourLifeSecure. Quote was similar, around $25/month for $50k policy.
BestCoast123
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BestCoast123 »

professor_americus wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:18 pm Just got off of an application call with Banker's Life.

Today is the last day they are processing applications for folks under 50 years old (I'm 38). So if you don't have an application already in their system, Bankers will probably be a dead end.

About $33/month for barebones $50k policy with 2% inflation.

My employer has optional group coverage through YourLifeSecure. Quote was similar, around $25/month for $50k policy.
Can also confirm that today is the last day for Banker's LIfe. Based on this board, I drove to a Banker's Life office at ~8:15 AM. Due to COVID it's supposed to be appointment only but they were able to squeeze me in with the Branch Manager (who was extremely helpful). App's need to be submitted by 8PM tonight. Was able to get coverage for both my wife and I - ~$700/annually for both of us (later 30's).

There's still have a day to try and jam in an Application!
OrangeKiwi
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by OrangeKiwi »

BestCoast123 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:36 pm Was able to get coverage for both my wife and I - ~$700/annually for both of us (later 30's).

My agent estimated will take at least 8 to 10 weeks to see if underwriting approves the application and if I actually get the coverage. I still haven't received my telephone health interview for an application submitted weeks ago. Do you mean that you submitted an application?
BestCoast123
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BestCoast123 »

OrangeKiwi wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:44 pm
BestCoast123 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:36 pm Was able to get coverage for both my wife and I - ~$700/annually for both of us (later 30's).

My agent estimated will take at least 8 to 10 weeks to see if underwriting approves the application and if I actually get the coverage. I still haven't received my telephone health interview for an application submitted weeks ago. Do you mean that you submitted an application?
Yes, you are correct. Was able to get my application submitted prior to the deadline. The Agent also schedule the telephone interview health interview for 7/9 (me) and 7/10 (wife), which were the soonest available dates. Coverage is expected to kick-in around September 1.
coyote2001
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by coyote2001 »

To WoW2012 -

Since you are a long term care expert I would like to contact you but your settings, as far as I can tell, are not set up so I can send a private message. I live in Puyallup, WA. I am interested into looking for Long Term Care Insurance Doug -
Topic Author
Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

coyote2001 wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:42 pm To WoW2012 -

Since you are a long term care expert I would like to contact you but your settings, as far as I can tell, are not set up so I can send a private message. I live in Puyallup, WA. I am interested into looking for Long Term Care Insurance Doug -
I don't want to speak for WoW2012, but there are many people on this forum that are licensed or regulated and in order for them to participate, they choose to keep their participation in the forums completely anonymous to attempt to not pull their activities here into being auditable by whatever regulatory agency they fall under. Just an FYI.
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
codfish
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by codfish »

I was in contact with a broker and started the application process last week. Was later informed the policy was no longer available to applicants under the age of 50. Not sure of the companies they use, but this is a wide spread issue for younger applicants at this point. Frustrating for sure, as the tax will be far greater than the policy cost for many of us. I’ll be following along to see if there are any other options…
FlaccidElection
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by FlaccidElection »

codfish wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:42 pm I was in contact with a broker and started the application process last week. Was later informed the policy was no longer available to applicants under the age of 50. Not sure of the companies they use, but this is a wide spread issue for younger applicants at this point. Frustrating for sure, as the tax will be far greater than the policy cost for many of us. I’ll be following along to see if there are any other options…
NYLife seems to still be taking applications but unlikely to do so for <40 starting July.
jemscreen392
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jemscreen392 »

I know multiple people who cannot qualify for private coverage because of preexisting conditions. From what I can tell, this means they have no way of opting out of the tax.

This is discriminatory. If anyone could opt out through the purchase of a private plan, that would be fine. But there is an entire group of people who do not have that option. So we end up with two classes of people - those that are "healthy" and have a choice to opt out and then those with pre-existing that are subject to a mandatory tax.

Has anyone looked into challenges to the law based on discrimination against people with pre-existing conditions?
suemarkp
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by suemarkp »

Perhaps the state would say those unhealthy people have higher odds of using the state plan they will be paying in to and in fact they are "helping" them as they are getting LTC for less cost than they should.
Mark | Somewhere in WA State
AndMan
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by AndMan »

Darnet. Been filling out the application for banner this weekend. Looks like we were just a hair too late. This whole process is infuriating
jemscreen392
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jemscreen392 »

suemarkp wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:44 am Perhaps the state would say those unhealthy people have higher odds of using the state plan they will be paying in to and in fact they are "helping" them as they are getting LTC for less cost than they should.
I am not a lawyer, but isn’t the fact that one group of people have the ability to opt out of this tax while another group of people have no ability to do so discriminatory?
Whakamole
Posts: 1763
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:59 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Whakamole »

jemscreen392 wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:12 am
suemarkp wrote: Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:44 am Perhaps the state would say those unhealthy people have higher odds of using the state plan they will be paying in to and in fact they are "helping" them as they are getting LTC for less cost than they should.
I am not a lawyer, but isn’t the fact that one group of people have the ability to opt out of this tax while another group of people have no ability to do so discriminatory?

Yes. Let us know how the challenge goes. I think there are also lawsuits over the 7% capital gains tax for "high income" earners that starts next year. I don't expect any of these challenges to succeed.
soulreapersteve
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 11:37 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by soulreapersteve »

FlaccidElection wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:18 pm
codfish wrote: Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:42 pm I was in contact with a broker and started the application process last week. Was later informed the policy was no longer available to applicants under the age of 50. Not sure of the companies they use, but this is a wide spread issue for younger applicants at this point. Frustrating for sure, as the tax will be far greater than the policy cost for many of us. I’ll be following along to see if there are any other options…
NYLife seems to still be taking applications but unlikely to do so for <40 starting July.
Got off the phone with a local agent for NYLife and can confirm this statement: it was stated that the company will follow other companies' steps in rejecting applications for LTCI for anyone under 40 by the end of this week.

So for anyone still on the fence about this and still shopping around, do act quickly!
Impromptu
Posts: 406
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Impromptu »

I docusigned my Banker's Life application on Friday, which was the last day they were accepting applications for those under 50. They got my check several days before that, so timing worked out for me. Many of my young co-workers are scrambling. I do not think they need to panic, but they need to get started finding a broker who can help them sooner rather than later.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
jtower68
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jtower68 »

Just submitted my application through NYLife (I chose Asset Flex, as that appears to have the fastest path to approval vs the lone LTC policies). The agent I talked to said they might be getting an extension for accepting applications for those under 40 up until July 17th... but I fired off the application now just in case the July 1st deadline is still in place.

Agree with other commenters above that we need to work quite fast, and time is running out. I am not worrying about cost all that much right now, just a plan that will get me exemption, and I will fine tune my policy at a later time.

Another note is that the Attestation Period (the time where we apply for an exemption approval from the state) begins October 1st (please correct me if I am wrong or if this date is still tentative). Assuming that the state will be very slow processing these applications, you will want to fire off an exemption request as SOON as the Attestation Period opens. This is to prevent you from being hit with the payroll tax on Jan 2022 even though you have a legitimate LTC policy, since your exemption request is still being processed (effectively you would be getting double dipped... which would be disastrous).

In other words, I would highly recommend everyone try to get a policy in place prior to October 1 and not November 1 so you will have as much time as possible to potentially be approved for payroll tax exemption.
paradisenostril
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:19 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by paradisenostril »

jtower68 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:21 pm Just submitted my application through NYLife (I chose Asset Flex, as that appears to have the fastest path to approval vs the lone LTC policies). The agent I talked to said they might be getting an extension for accepting applications for those under 40 up until July 17th
Mind sharing the agent or office you worked with? The NYLife agent I talked to said they already closed down apps for under 40.
jalm1
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jalm1 »

jtower68 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:21 pm Just submitted my application through NYLife (I chose Asset Flex, as that appears to have the fastest path to approval vs the lone LTC policies). The agent I talked to said they might be getting an extension for accepting applications for those under 40 up until July 17th... but I fired off the application now just in case the July 1st deadline is still in place.
I spoke to one from NYL today as well (I’m late to this boat). She directed me to the Asset flex plan too. I assume that is suitable LTC plan for opt-out (before i sing the app)?

She mentioned that come mid-July they wouldn’t be taking new apps.
jtower68
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jtower68 »

jtower68 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:11 pm
jtower68 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:09 pm
paradisenostril wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:21 pm
jtower68 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:21 pm Just submitted my application through NYLife (I chose Asset Flex, as that appears to have the fastest path to approval vs the lone LTC policies). The agent I talked to said they might be getting an extension for accepting applications for those under 40 up until July 17th
Mind sharing the agent or office you worked with? The NYLife agent I talked to said they already closed down apps for under 40.
I worked through a local Seattle agent who was familiar with the WA State LTC Trust Act and I got matched with this person through this website (make sure to select WA in the drop down menu):

https://www.newyorklife.com/products/lo ... -insurance

The agent says July 1st is the current deadline, so you even have tomorrow to send an application. I would try a different agent if you are getting pushback.
jalm1 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:34 pm
jtower68 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 3:21 pm Just submitted my application through NYLife (I chose Asset Flex, as that appears to have the fastest path to approval vs the lone LTC policies). The agent I talked to said they might be getting an extension for accepting applications for those under 40 up until July 17th... but I fired off the application now just in case the July 1st deadline is still in place.
I spoke to one from NYL today as well (I’m late to this boat). She directed me to the Asset flex plan too. I assume that is suitable LTC plan for opt-out (before i sing the app)?

She mentioned that come mid-July they wouldn’t be taking new apps.
Yep, that's exactly what happened to me. I didn't want to argue or fine tune for the cheapest thing, I just wanted to get my application out. The goal here is getting that lifetime exemption, then worrying about the rest later (I will likely downgrade this to a basic plan next year). I was charged the full year premium up front but will get a discount for being married (refunded to me if NYLife approves me). They said I could also modify the plan through the application process so you can also look at downgrading some features if you would like to save a little.
tomsense76
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tomsense76 »

Yeah when looking into plans NYLife agent suggested AssetFlex. I'll admit the name made me cringe a little bit, but when comparing to other LTC + Life plans it seems reasonable. It is 7702b qualified plan, which is an important thing for opting out. They have a separate LTC only plan too, but the price point didn't appear to be significantly different and it had worse coverage.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
tomsense76
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tomsense76 »

Should add I talked to an insurance broker from the American Association for Long-Term Care Insurance ( https://www.aaltci.org ) as well, who was quite helpful in investigating different options. Feel free to PM me for details if you'd like to be put in touch with them.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
jtower68
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Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jtower68 »

tomsense76 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:24 pm Yeah when looking into plans NYLife agent suggested AssetFlex. I'll admit the name made me cringe a little bit, but when comparing to other LTC + Life plans it seems reasonable. It is 7702b qualified plan, which is an important thing for opting out. They have a separate LTC only plan too, but the price point didn't appear to be significantly different and it had worse coverage.
Glad to hear of your experience. Looks like a number of us are comfortable in choosing this plan. We don't know how strict the approval process will be regarding exemption, and we only get a one-time chance at this. Better to just buy a comprehensive and more expensive plan to ensure success in October-December.
jalm1
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Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:55 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by jalm1 »

jtower68 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:02 pm
tomsense76 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:24 pm Yeah when looking into plans NYLife agent suggested AssetFlex. I'll admit the name made me cringe a little bit, but when comparing to other LTC + Life plans it seems reasonable. It is 7702b qualified plan, which is an important thing for opting out. They have a separate LTC only plan too, but the price point didn't appear to be significantly different and it had worse coverage.
Glad to hear of your experience. Looks like a number of us are comfortable in choosing this plan. We don't know how strict the approval process will be regarding exemption, and we only get a one-time chance at this. Better to just buy a comprehensive and more expensive plan to ensure success in October-December.
That was my concern that this plan wouldn't qualify, but it seems it will.
BruDude
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Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

John Hancock announced today that effective immediately, the minimum policy size for their UL/LTC policy is now $250k instead of $50k. Anyone that’s waiting better get a move on, this is getting more expensive by the day.
intendi
Posts: 205
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by intendi »

Anyone have further insight on the chances the loophole to cancel after the initial attestation will survive?
DonIce
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Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:44 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by DonIce »

If anyone has an insurance agent that has been helpful to navigate this mess, I would super appreciate being put in touch with them. Please PM me. 34 year old single male.
BestCoast123
Posts: 124
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BestCoast123 »

intendi wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 4:04 pm Anyone have further insight on the chances the loophole to cancel after the initial attestation will survive?
It's not a loophole. Exemptions are for life.

http://www.wacaresfund.wa.gov/private-insurance/
bvorjohan
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:14 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by bvorjohan »

I was trying to get in an application tonight for NY Life, and the application system broke, so it looks like a lot of applications that were aimed to be submitted today did not get submitted. I'm incredibly frustrated with this situation, and am trying to follow up any leads I can.
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