Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

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BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

it'smyjob? wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:35 pm I dragged my feet on this (like most things). What insurance companies are still selling LTC insurance for 60-somethings? I checked NY Life and the page says it is temporarily not selling in WA state.
Mass Mutual whole life, but won't be cheap at age 60+ so unless you're making a lot of money it probably wouldn't make sense just to avoid the tax. Not sure if Bankers Life is still taking apps or not, they'd probably be the cheapest option if they are but may have also restricted benefits/increased minimum premiums.
it'smyjob?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by it'smyjob? »

Thanks, brudude.
I originally thought we would self insure, but have been considering purchasing LTCI. Since we likely missed the window to purchase for the purpose of opting out, I wonder if it might be prudent to wait a few months. Perhaps the price will go down when people are no longer clamoring for it?

Also, when you say "it won't be cheap", roughly how much do you think it would cost?
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

it'smyjob? wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:13 pm Thanks, brudude.
I originally thought we would self insure, but have been considering purchasing LTCI. Since we likely missed the window to purchase for the purpose of opting out, I wonder if it might be prudent to wait a few months. Perhaps the price will go down when people are no longer clamoring for it?

Also, when you say "it won't be cheap", roughly how much do you think it would cost?
Maybe I'm not following, but the price isn't expensive if you really have future needs for LTCI. Or, you can simply pay the 0.58% payroll tax and get the state plan - that's the original intent of the tax after all.
tomsense76
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tomsense76 »

So what are the next steps after getting LTCI? Apply for an exemption once applications are available in October? That's all I see here.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

tomsense76 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:42 pm So what are the next steps after getting LTCI? Apply for an exemption once applications are available in October? That's all I see here.
I believe that's the next step. Then cancel LTCI X months after the opt-out approval, X being 0~12 :twisted:
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Is it ethical to defraud an insurance company in order to defraud the gov't of lawful tax revenue?
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

WoW2012 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:02 pm Is it ethical to defraud an insurance company in order to defraud the gov't of lawful tax revenue?
I don't understand your phrasing because I don't see anyone getting defrauded. I told my agent straight up that avoiding the tax is part of the motivation. Insurance companies are also stopping to serve WA residents or demanding high minimums.
Jordon
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Jordon »

WoW2012 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:02 pm Is it ethical to defraud an insurance company in order to defraud the gov't of lawful tax revenue?
An insurance specialist should know that the word "defraud" has specific definition. Sorry some of your many new customers aren't going to stick around, but nothing in the RCW prohibits that.
paradisenostril
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by paradisenostril »

Jordon wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:36 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:02 pm Is it ethical to defraud an insurance company in order to defraud the gov't of lawful tax revenue?
An insurance specialist should know that the word "defraud" has specific definition. Sorry some of your many new customers aren't going to stick around, but nothing in the RCW prohibits that.
Also the policy documents have provisions that articulate a policyholder's right to cancel. Not even close to fraud.
it'smyjob?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by it'smyjob? »

Marseille07 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:55 pm
it'smyjob? wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:13 pm Thanks, brudude.
I originally thought we would self insure, but have been considering purchasing LTCI. Since we likely missed the window to purchase for the purpose of opting out, I wonder if it might be prudent to wait a few months. Perhaps the price will go down when people are no longer clamoring for it?

Also, when you say "it won't be cheap", roughly how much do you think it would cost?
Maybe I'm not following, but the price isn't expensive if you really have future needs for LTCI. Or, you can simply pay the 0.58% payroll tax and get the state plan - that's the original intent of the tax after all.
I have read throughout this thread that the LTCI rates were going up as more time has gone by, and the deadline to opt out has gotten closer. Additionally, some insurers are no longer taking applications for LTCI. So, I am wondering if, after the window to opt out has passed, the rates will fall back to where they were (and more insurers will be available again).

(My husband will very likely retire before he could be eligible to use the state plan)
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

it'smyjob? wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:08 pm I have read throughout this thread that the LTCI rates were going up as more time has gone by, and the deadline to opt out has gotten closer. Additionally, some insurers are no longer taking applications for LTCI. So, I am wondering if, after the window to opt out has passed, the rates will fall back to where they were (and more insurers will be available again).

(My husband will very likely retire before he could be eligible to use the state plan)
It's a fair point. What's happening now is that the insurers are only providing high premium plans, like 2K/year minimum. This is making it difficult for people who buy LTCI until November then bail.

Now, after the window passes, it's likely that cheaper plans will be made available again. But at that point, why do you want LTCI that you hadn't really considered before, is the question. But if you have legitimate needs for LTCI (but not the expensive plans) then waiting it out is probably the right call.
it'smyjob?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by it'smyjob? »

Marseille07 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:14 pm
it'smyjob? wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:08 pm I have read throughout this thread that the LTCI rates were going up as more time has gone by, and the deadline to opt out has gotten closer. Additionally, some insurers are no longer taking applications for LTCI. So, I am wondering if, after the window to opt out has passed, the rates will fall back to where they were (and more insurers will be available again).

(My husband will very likely retire before he could be eligible to use the state plan)
It's a fair point. What's happening now is that the insurers are only providing high premium plans, like 2K/year minimum. This is making it difficult for people who buy LTCI until November then bail.

Now, after the window passes, it's likely that cheaper plans will be made available again. But at that point, why do you want LTCI that you hadn't really considered before, is the question. But if you have legitimate needs for LTCI (but not the expensive plans) then waiting it out is probably the right call.
After having discussions with several people whose financial advisors had highly recommended LTCI to them, I thought that maybe it was something we should be thinking about. Hard to know. Neither of my parents used any kind of home or nursing home care. But one relative had a stroke and was in a nursing home for two decades...
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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

it'smyjob? wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:27 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:14 pm
it'smyjob? wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:08 pm I have read throughout this thread that the LTCI rates were going up as more time has gone by, and the deadline to opt out has gotten closer. Additionally, some insurers are no longer taking applications for LTCI. So, I am wondering if, after the window to opt out has passed, the rates will fall back to where they were (and more insurers will be available again).

(My husband will very likely retire before he could be eligible to use the state plan)
It's a fair point. What's happening now is that the insurers are only providing high premium plans, like 2K/year minimum. This is making it difficult for people who buy LTCI until November then bail.

Now, after the window passes, it's likely that cheaper plans will be made available again. But at that point, why do you want LTCI that you hadn't really considered before, is the question. But if you have legitimate needs for LTCI (but not the expensive plans) then waiting it out is probably the right call.
After having discussions with several people whose financial advisors had highly recommended LTCI to them, I thought that maybe it was something we should be thinking about. Hard to know. Neither of my parents used any kind of home or nursing home care. But one relative had a stroke and was in a nursing home for two decades...
There's the rub. No plans on the market today will get you even close to two decades of coverage. The order of magnitude we are talking about here are plans that cover one to two, maybe three years. Even three years is pushing it IMHO, JUST for the purpose of getting a tax exemption.
tomsense76
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tomsense76 »

paradisenostril wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:56 pm
Jordon wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:36 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:02 pm Is it ethical to defraud an insurance company in order to defraud the gov't of lawful tax revenue?
An insurance specialist should know that the word "defraud" has specific definition. Sorry some of your many new customers aren't going to stick around, but nothing in the RCW prohibits that.
Also the policy documents have provisions that articulate a policyholder's right to cancel. Not even close to fraud.
To be fair to WoW2012, we don't actually know if this statement was in response to people discussing possibly canceling their policies in the future or something totally different.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
tomsense76
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tomsense76 »

Marseille07 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:44 pm
tomsense76 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:42 pm So what are the next steps after getting LTCI? Apply for an exemption once applications are available in October? That's all I see here.
I believe that's the next step. Then cancel LTCI X months after the opt-out approval, X being 0~12 :twisted:
Thanks! :sharebeer

Yeah am undecided as to if/when I would cancel mine. Tried to pick a policy I could live with holding and even using (should I need to). There is a provision in the policy to allow refunding of all premiums paid (after a certain number have been paid in). So that may be one route I might take if I were to decide to cancel.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
tomsense76
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tomsense76 »

it'smyjob? wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:27 pm After having discussions with several people whose financial advisors had highly recommended LTCI to them, I thought that maybe it was something we should be thinking about. Hard to know. Neither of my parents used any kind of home or nursing home care. But one relative had a stroke and was in a nursing home for two decades...
Well it's also not the same as just going to a nursing home. LTCI covers a very particular set of circumstances etched into Federal law (see here). In particular one must...
...

[be] unable to perform (without substantial assistance from another individual) at least 2 activities of daily living for a period of at least 90 days due to a loss of functional capacity

...

(i) Eating.
(ii) Toileting.
(iii) Transferring.
(iv) Bathing.
(v) Dressing.
(vi) Continence.

...
If one doesn't have issues with at least 2 of those activities, LTC is not relevant. IOW going to a nursing home is not necessarily a qualifying event for LTC.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
bacon4retirement
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by bacon4retirement »

mrtimo wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:55 pm Just reading through this thread for the first time today. Looks like I'm late to the party and many places are no longer offering policies for WA residents.
I'm 38, healthy with no pre-existing conditions, looking to get something setup ASAP. I get my other home/car insurance through USAA, but it looks like they are no longer taking applications. Is NY Life my best option? Who can I trust will be able to get this setup before the deadline?
edit - Just checked, NYL is no longer offering insurance for this in WA
I applied through Northwestern Mutual a couple weeks ago and just got notice of being approved.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

truenyer wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:49 pm
There's the rub. No plans on the market today will get you even close to two decades of coverage.

100% false in 49 states.
True in only one state: New York.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

WoW2012 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:45 am
truenyer wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:49 pm
There's the rub. No plans on the market today will get you even close to two decades of coverage.

100% false in 49 states.
True in only one state: New York.
**That is cost effective for the purpose of this discussion***

Actually, my parents are in NY. My mom has an UNLIMITED benefit policy. My dad's max benefit is $850k. They are expensive policies.

I just looked at Bankers Life WA filing and they go from an 8 year benefit to Unlimited. 8 years is approximately 3x the price of a 1 year benefit.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

bacon4retirement wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:33 am I applied through Northwestern Mutual a couple weeks ago and just got notice of being approved.
How? Are you paying high premiums? I applied late July but still waiting for an interview if there is one.
it'smyjob?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by it'smyjob? »

tomsense76 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:05 pm
it'smyjob? wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:27 pm After having discussions with several people whose financial advisors had highly recommended LTCI to them, I thought that maybe it was something we should be thinking about. Hard to know. Neither of my parents used any kind of home or nursing home care. But one relative had a stroke and was in a nursing home for two decades...
Well it's also not the same as just going to a nursing home. LTCI covers a very particular set of circumstances etched into Federal law (see here). In particular one must...
...

[be] unable to perform (without substantial assistance from another individual) at least 2 activities of daily living for a period of at least 90 days due to a loss of functional capacity

...

(i) Eating.
(ii) Toileting.
(iii) Transferring.
(iv) Bathing.
(v) Dressing.
(vi) Continence.

...
If one doesn't have issues with at least 2 of those activities, LTC is not relevant. IOW going to a nursing home is not necessarily a qualifying event for LTC.
Thank you, tomsense76. While I knew the basic requirements for LTC, it never occurred to me that one could be in a nursing home and not qualify!
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

it'smyjob? wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:13 pm Thanks, brudude.
I originally thought we would self insure, but have been considering purchasing LTCI. Since we likely missed the window to purchase for the purpose of opting out, I wonder if it might be prudent to wait a few months. Perhaps the price will go down when people are no longer clamoring for it?

Also, when you say "it won't be cheap", roughly how much do you think it would cost?
I don't think prices in general will go down but the availability of products will increase after November 1 as insurers come back into the market, so that will have the appearance of lowering cost since it will be more competitive, but those policies after November 1 won't be eligible for the tax exemption.

$100k whole life with LTC rider from Mass Mutual at age 60 is about $4500/year, age 65 is about $5900/year. That assumes a Standard health rating. A better health rating would be about 10% less. Like I said, not cheap, but still available.

National Guardian Life is still selling traditional LTC in Washington, but it must be set up as a 10-pay (pay 10 years and then done) with a minimum premium of $6,000/year. So if you actually want true LTC coverage and want to avoid the tax, NGL could be an option too. You could have pretty decent benefits for a 60-65 year old male with a $6k/year 10-pay policy. Depending on your annual income and how much tax you'd have to pay without an exemption, this could still be the best option for someone that actually wants to buy LTC instead of just buying the minimum to opt out of the tax.
it'smyjob?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by it'smyjob? »

Thank you so much, BruDude!

That really helps me evaluate our situation. I appreciate the numbers and the recommendation of NGL.
I am surprised about the cost, though. When I asked a sibling (who lives in NY), her policy (for both herself and spouse) was considerably cheaper (unless she is misinformed on the numbers).
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

it'smyjob? wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:37 pm Thank you so much, BruDude!

That really helps me evaluate our situation. I appreciate the numbers and the recommendation of NGL.
I am surprised about the cost, though. When I asked a sibling (who lives in NY), her policy (for both herself and spouse) was considerably cheaper (unless she is misinformed on the numbers).
The minimum premium of $6k/year with National Guardian can include any benefit structure, so the younger you are the more benefits you can get for your $6k. They just don't want people applying for purposes of tax opt-out and then dropping the policy later, which is the reason for the high premium requirement. They had originally required a minimum of $2k/year but then raised it to $6k with the 10-pay requirement. Your sibling probably also has a lifetime pay policy instead of 10-pay, big price difference.

If you aren't concerned about the tax, then waiting until after November 1 will probably yield better results on pricing/product availability. If you are earning $200k+ and facing a tax bill over $1000/year for not opting out, then that becomes part of the decision point.
it'smyjob?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by it'smyjob? »

Yes, you are right. My sister probably is paying yearly.
Even though i would like to avoid the tax, I also don't like making decisions on the fly-especially when there are so few options. If i decide to pull the trigger on this, it will probably be after November.
Thanks again :)
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

it'smyjob? wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 1:00 pm Yes, you are right. My sister probably is paying yearly.
Even though i would like to avoid the tax, I also don't like making decisions on the fly-especially when there are so few options. If i decide to pull the trigger on this, it will probably be after November.
Thanks again :)
I don't know how much they're paying, but a poster above applied through Northwestern Mutual a couple weeks ago and just got notice of being approved.
it'smyjob?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by it'smyjob? »

Northwestern Mutual has suspended standalone LTCI policies in WA, and will reevaluate after Nov1.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

BruDude wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:49 pm
it'smyjob? wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:37 pm Thank you so much, BruDude!

That really helps me evaluate our situation. I appreciate the numbers and the recommendation of NGL.
I am surprised about the cost, though. When I asked a sibling (who lives in NY), her policy (for both herself and spouse) was considerably cheaper (unless she is misinformed on the numbers).
The minimum premium of $6k/year with National Guardian can include any benefit structure, so the younger you are the more benefits you can get for your $6k. They just don't want people applying for purposes of tax opt-out and then dropping the policy later, which is the reason for the high premium requirement. They had originally required a minimum of $2k/year but then raised it to $6k with the 10-pay requirement. Your sibling probably also has a lifetime pay policy instead of 10-pay, big price difference.

If you aren't concerned about the tax, then waiting until after November 1 will probably yield better results on pricing/product availability. If you are earning $200k+ and facing a tax bill over $1000/year for not opting out, then that becomes part of the decision point.
National Guardian Life stopped taking apps in WA on Monday, even for the 10 pay.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

Jordon wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:36 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:02 pm Is it ethical to defraud an insurance company in order to defraud the gov't of lawful tax revenue?
An insurance specialist should know that the word "defraud" has specific definition. Sorry some of your many new customers aren't going to stick around, but nothing in the RCW prohibits that.
The legislature put this in place despite 500K more voters voting "No" than voting "Yes" on this (during an advisory vote). What is to stop the legislature from revising the revised code to include audits/recertification down the road especially when this thing is starting off $15 Billion in the hole?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by LadyGeek »

As a reminder, this is a "No politics" forum. Please refrain from comments on what the legislature "might" do.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 5:32 pm
National Guardian Life stopped taking apps in WA on Monday, even for the 10 pay.
Good to know, hard to keep with all of these things...
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Bankers Life & Casualty is the only company still selling "stand alone" long-term care insurance in the state of Washington. And, they offer 3 different LTCi policies.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

WoW2012 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:56 pm Bankers Life & Casualty is the only company still selling "stand alone" long-term care insurance in the state of Washington. And, they offer 3 different LTCi policies.
I've called them late July and I was told they only serve people over 50. Another poster upthread reported the same. So yes, they may be offering products but capped by age.
schooley
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by schooley »

Hey fellow Washingtonians-- found this thread while googling and I recently found good news with State Farm. You can try your local agent but Tom Clark (not sure about the link policy here but you can easily Google him) so far has been THE GUY at fast-forwarding the process and will accept anyone, I was applied in 20 minutes and here's my summary:

Benefits and Riders: $50,000 Universal Life
Waiver of Monthly Deduction for Disability
Flexible Care Benefit Rider
(Accelerated Death Benefit for Long-Term Care Rider)

50k was the base amount, and it's just slightly higher than what the tax would cost me. I was worried about the words Accelerated Death Benefit because the WA LCT section on that requires quite a few read-throughs (first it says it doesn't qualify, then it says it depends)-- Tom Clark assured me that State Farm has given agents assurance that offer for a $50,000 (the base minimum) Universal Life policy with a Flexible Care Benefit Rider will be accepted by the Employment Security Department to grant the exemption to paying the payroll tax in the future. State Farm’s policy provides an accelerated benefit for covering long term care benefits if the insured is diagnosed as Chronically Ill and meets the 90 day elimination period as outlined in the policy. The benefits are specifically restricted to cover long term care expenses which is what the state is requiring to grant the exemption.

The underwriting process is also only 2 business days.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

schooley wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:58 am Hey fellow Washingtonians-- found this thread while googling and I recently found good news with State Farm. You can try your local agent but Tom Clark (not sure about the link policy here but you can easily Google him) so far has been THE GUY at fast-forwarding the process and will accept anyone, I was applied in 20 minutes and here's my summary:

Benefits and Riders: $50,000 Universal Life
Waiver of Monthly Deduction for Disability
Flexible Care Benefit Rider
(Accelerated Death Benefit for Long-Term Care Rider)

50k was the base amount, and it's just slightly higher than what the tax would cost me. I was worried about the words Accelerated Death Benefit because the WA LCT section on that requires quite a few read-throughs (first it says it doesn't qualify, then it says it depends)-- Tom Clark assured me that State Farm has given agents assurance that offer for a $50,000 (the base minimum) Universal Life policy with a Flexible Care Benefit Rider will be accepted by the Employment Security Department to grant the exemption to paying the payroll tax in the future. State Farm’s policy provides an accelerated benefit for covering long term care benefits if the insured is diagnosed as Chronically Ill and meets the 90 day elimination period as outlined in the policy. The benefits are specifically restricted to cover long term care expenses which is what the state is requiring to grant the exemption.

The underwriting process is also only 2 business days.
Does the paperwork say it is a 7702B rider? or 101(g)? or?
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
schooley
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:42 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by schooley »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:03 am
schooley wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:58 am Hey fellow Washingtonians-- found this thread while googling and I recently found good news with State Farm. You can try your local agent but Tom Clark (not sure about the link policy here but you can easily Google him) so far has been THE GUY at fast-forwarding the process and will accept anyone, I was applied in 20 minutes and here's my summary:

Benefits and Riders: $50,000 Universal Life
Waiver of Monthly Deduction for Disability
Flexible Care Benefit Rider
(Accelerated Death Benefit for Long-Term Care Rider)

50k was the base amount, and it's just slightly higher than what the tax would cost me. I was worried about the words Accelerated Death Benefit because the WA LCT section on that requires quite a few read-throughs (first it says it doesn't qualify, then it says it depends)-- Tom Clark assured me that State Farm has given agents assurance that offer for a $50,000 (the base minimum) Universal Life policy with a Flexible Care Benefit Rider will be accepted by the Employment Security Department to grant the exemption to paying the payroll tax in the future. State Farm’s policy provides an accelerated benefit for covering long term care benefits if the insured is diagnosed as Chronically Ill and meets the 90 day elimination period as outlined in the policy. The benefits are specifically restricted to cover long term care expenses which is what the state is requiring to grant the exemption.

The underwriting process is also only 2 business days.
Does the paperwork say it is a 7702B rider? or 101(g)? or?
Yes, 7702B-- here's what I've got under tax information:
This policy complies with the definition of life insurance in Internal Revenue Code Section 7702
using the Cash Value Accumulation Test. This means that the Death Benefit payable will always
be at least as great as the minimum amount required by the Internal Revenue Code Section 7702.
If a premium increases the Death Benefit more than it increases the Account Value, we reserve
the right to require evidence of insurability and a Basic Amount Increase or reject the premium
payment. This illustration should not be relied on for tax advice. The tax status of this policy
should be reviewed with the policy owner's legal and tax advisors.
Isabelle77
Posts: 958
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:43 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Isabelle77 »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:52 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:56 pm Bankers Life & Casualty is the only company still selling "stand alone" long-term care insurance in the state of Washington. And, they offer 3 different LTCi policies.
I've called them late July and I was told they only serve people over 50. Another poster upthread reported the same. So yes, they may be offering products but capped by age.
This must be a new development. We are 44 and have a LTC Bankers Life policy that went into effect this summer.
WoW2012
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Isabelle77 wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:51 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:52 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:56 pm Bankers Life & Casualty is the only company still selling "stand alone" long-term care insurance in the state of Washington. And, they offer 3 different LTCi policies.
I've called them late July and I was told they only serve people over 50. Another poster upthread reported the same. So yes, they may be offering products but capped by age.
This must be a new development. We are 44 and have a LTC Bankers Life policy that went into effect this summer.
Near the end of June, Bankers stopped accepting LTCi applications for Washington residents under the age of 50. All applications submitted before that date were still processed and issued.

They'll open back up to all ages after November 1st.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Topic Author
Soon2BXProgrammer
Posts: 3289
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

schooley wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:59 am
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:03 am Does the paperwork say it is a 7702B rider? or 101(g)? or?
Yes, 7702B-- here's what I've got under tax information:
my understanding (which could be wrong) is there shouldn't be any concerns about a 7702B policy qualifying as long term care insurance:
https://www.insurance.wa.gov/what-quali ... -insurance
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
Arena08
Posts: 63
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:57 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Arena08 »

For any federal employees or military who have not yet found a policy:

ltcfeds.com

They are still issuing policies in WA. And also still available to the under 40 crowd.
WoW2012
Posts: 1455
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:28 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:20 pm
schooley wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:59 am
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:03 am Does the paperwork say it is a 7702B rider? or 101(g)? or?
Yes, 7702B-- here's what I've got under tax information:
my understanding (which could be wrong) is there shouldn't be any concerns about a 7702B policy qualifying as long term care insurance:
https://www.insurance.wa.gov/what-quali ... -insurance
Any long-term care insurance policy will qualify whether it is a 7702B LTCi policy or not.
The only time the 7702B is required (to opt-out) is for life insurance policies.
Life insurance policies that do NOT have the 7702B rider will NOT qualify for the opt-out.
Life insurance policies that have the 7702B rider WILL qualify for the opt-out.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Topic Author
Soon2BXProgrammer
Posts: 3289
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:30 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer »

WoW2012 wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:37 am
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:20 pm
schooley wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 11:59 am
Soon2BXProgrammer wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:03 am Does the paperwork say it is a 7702B rider? or 101(g)? or?
Yes, 7702B-- here's what I've got under tax information:
my understanding (which could be wrong) is there shouldn't be any concerns about a 7702B policy qualifying as long term care insurance:
https://www.insurance.wa.gov/what-quali ... -insurance
Any long-term care insurance policy will qualify whether it is a 7702B LTCi policy or not.
The only time the 7702B is required (to opt-out) is for life insurance policies.
Life insurance policies that do NOT have the 7702B rider will NOT qualify for the opt-out.
Life insurance policies that have the 7702B rider WILL qualify for the opt-out.
Thank you for the clarification on the nuances... schooley had been talking about a life policy.
Earned 43 (and counting) credit hours of financial planning related education from a regionally accredited university, but I am not your advisor.
BruDude
Posts: 4211
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Update - Mass Mutual is out. Seems they stopped selling the LTC rider on August 20 but the website still allows it to be quoted and submit apps. They do still have one option as a single pay with a $50k minimum premium though...
BruDude
Posts: 4211
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 pm
Location: Las Vegas

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

One more update - Lincoln National will still write the MoneyGuard policy for someone over 40, but requires a minimum first year premium of $7500. It can also be paid as a single premium and structured with 100% return of premium, so although it may cost a lot up front you could cancel in the future for all of your money back. I haven't run a quote with it yet so not sure what year the 100% return of premium is available, but throwing it out there since there are almost no options left.
twr
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:08 am

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by twr »

Cox3497 wrote: Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:24 am For any federal employees or military who have not yet found a policy:

ltcfeds.com

They are still issuing policies in WA. And also still available to the under 40 crowd.
This is what we ended up doing. My father is a retired federal employee, so I was accepted into the program as an adult child under their “Qualified Relatives” classification.

$250/day for 5 years with a 90 day waiting period and the 3.0% ACI option for $185.82/mo (38 y/o male with no health issues). The only thing they needed to have me sign was a release of my medical records from my primary care physician. Start to finish the process took about four weeks.

I plan on keeping this for the long haul and having my (self-employed) wife sign up in the near future as well. It seems like a wonderful program and got me thinking about protecting my family from worst-case scenarios down the road.
bacon4retirement
Posts: 107
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:59 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by bacon4retirement »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:54 am
bacon4retirement wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:33 am I applied through Northwestern Mutual a couple weeks ago and just got notice of being approved.
How? Are you paying high premiums? I applied late July but still waiting for an interview if there is one.
I am paying a combined total of $538 to cover my partner and I, both in our 30's. We have coverage of $1500/month ($54,000 lifetime).
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

bacon4retirement wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:42 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:54 am
bacon4retirement wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 12:33 am I applied through Northwestern Mutual a couple weeks ago and just got notice of being approved.
How? Are you paying high premiums? I applied late July but still waiting for an interview if there is one.
I am paying a combined total of $538 to cover my partner and I, both in our 30's. We have coverage of $1500/month ($54,000 lifetime).
That's a very good deal. I applied at NYL late July and still waiting. I wish I knew about Northwestern Mutual.
CMD1
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by CMD1 »

The agent at NY life I was talking with informed me that they are no longer writing policies in Wa for the time being. Seems like a common issue, anyone recently get a policy and who did you use?
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

CMD1 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:36 am The agent at NY life I was talking with informed me that they are no longer writing policies in Wa for the time being. Seems like a common issue, anyone recently get a policy and who did you use?
I'm with NYL; you are talking about new applicants, not the folks already in the pipeline correct?
CMD1
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:10 pm

Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by CMD1 »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:40 am
I'm with NYL; you are talking about new applicants, not the folks already in the pipeline correct?
Correct.
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