Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

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Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Just to be clear, I am getting a policy (approved but not yet issued) and not suggesting anyone to opt-out without a policy in place.

I am waiting to opt-out until my policy is officially issued.
chrischris
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by chrischris »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:26 pm
MrBaseball34 wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:19 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:57 pm Where do folks see the WA Cares account? I'm at Paid Family and Medical Leave menu but I only see "Benefit Account," "Employers," "Employer Agent" and "Elective Coverage."
It was on the page earlier, but it's not showing now.
Thank you! I'll wait for it to reappear. I created a benefit account by accident, hopefully no foul.
I was able to complete the exemption application per the instructions, however my wife is having this same issue. The option to apply for exemption is not showing up in her PFML portal through SAW. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

chrischris wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:15 pm I was able to complete the exemption application per the instructions, however my wife is having this same issue. The option to apply for exemption is not showing up in her PFML portal through SAW. 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️
It's there today. From the Benefit Account, go to "Add / Switch account" upper right then create account. "WA Cares Exemption Account" should be there.
sullim4
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by sullim4 »

FWIW, I just got an updated status saying I was approved. The letter is to be added to the account within 48 hours and will also be snail mailed.

I submitted right around 9am yesterday, before the website crashed.
Bmac
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Bmac »

What are younger folks doing? I have 18 and 16 yo kids. I know I can’t do anything for the 16 yo yet (and she’s not working yet anyway). But the 18 yo works part time. Definitely not considering a LTC policy at this age.
pasadena
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by pasadena »

Bmac wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm What are younger folks doing? I have 18 and 16 yo kids. I know I can’t do anything for the 16 yo yet (and she’s not working yet anyway). But the 18 yo works part time. Definitely not considering a LTC policy at this age.
I'm not young, but honestly, it's not about having LTC insurance. It's about dodging the tax. The younger you are, the more you're going to pay into this before ever needing it, and the more likely you will be to end up somewhere else anyway.

I would take one - at 18 they should be very cheap - then cancel it after a year or two.
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willthrill81
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

pasadena wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:31 pm
Bmac wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm What are younger folks doing? I have 18 and 16 yo kids. I know I can’t do anything for the 16 yo yet (and she’s not working yet anyway). But the 18 yo works part time. Definitely not considering a LTC policy at this age.
I'm not young, but honestly, it's not about having LTC insurance. It's about dodging the tax. The younger you are, the more you're going to pay into this before ever needing it, and the more likely you will be to end up somewhere else anyway.

I would take one - at 18 they should be very cheap - then cancel it after a year or two.
It's almost certainly too late to get a policy by 11/1/2021 if you haven't at least already started the application process.
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Futureplanner
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Futureplanner »

Just a tip for those who haven’t applied for the exemption yet….nowhere on the application do you have to input any information about your LTC insurance. IE you can apply and get approved even before you have a policy in place. I called the office and they told me themselves they won’t be checking to verify policies. What a system.
drk
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by drk »

Bmac wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm What are younger folks doing? I have 18 and 16 yo kids. I know I can’t do anything for the 16 yo yet (and she’s not working yet anyway). But the 18 yo works part time. Definitely not considering a LTC policy at this age.
Don't let the tail wag the dog. They're several years off from feeling the bite of this tax, assuming that they stay in the state to work long-term.
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StoopieHippo
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by StoopieHippo »

Futureplanner wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:49 pm Just a tip for those who haven’t applied for the exemption yet….nowhere on the application do you have to input any information about your LTC insurance. IE you can apply and get approved even before you have a policy in place. I called the office and they told me themselves they won’t be checking to verify policies. What a system.
Hmmmm...this seem like falsifying info to the government, which I believe is illegal...
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

drk wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:51 pm
Bmac wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm What are younger folks doing? I have 18 and 16 yo kids. I know I can’t do anything for the 16 yo yet (and she’s not working yet anyway). But the 18 yo works part time. Definitely not considering a LTC policy at this age.
Don't let the tail wag the dog. They're several years off from feeling the bite of this tax, assuming that they stay in the state to work long-term.
I agree with the OP actually. The younger folks are the ones who ought to take this seriously & opt-out as soon as they can, not the elderly Bogleheads retiring in a couple of years.
Futureplanner
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Futureplanner »

StoopieHippo wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:54 pm
Futureplanner wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:49 pm Just a tip for those who haven’t applied for the exemption yet….nowhere on the application do you have to input any information about your LTC insurance. IE you can apply and get approved even before you have a policy in place. I called the office and they told me themselves they won’t be checking to verify policies. What a system.
Hmmmm...this seem like falsifying info to the government, which I believe is illegal...
I didn’t say I recommend lying on the application. That’s not a good idea. I myself have a policy in place. I’m just commenting that it’s a terrible system the government created. It’s a total mess and just a money grab from the government.
drk
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by drk »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:01 pm I agree with the OP actually. The younger folks are the ones who ought to take this seriously & opt-out as soon as they can, not the elderly Bogleheads retiring in a couple of years.
Younger folks who are highly compensated and established in the state? Yes, absolutely. Younger folks with minimal income and a few years before deciding whether to live and work in the state? Eh, that's a harder bet to justify. At some point it makes more sense to incorporate this into plans and see what changes come down the pike. When the kids graduate from college in four/five years, they'll account for this relative to other states' income taxes, etc.
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WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Futureplanner wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:49 pm Just a tip for those who haven’t applied for the exemption yet….nowhere on the application do you have to input any information about your LTC insurance. IE you can apply and get approved even before you have a policy in place. I called the office and they told me themselves they won’t be checking to verify policies. What a system.
The ESD is not asking for any information about your policy yet. They specifically state that they do NOT want anyone to upload policy documents or policy information. There’s two reasons for that:
They don’t have the personnel to verify the policies of the 500,000+ people who will opt-out.
They haven’t made any rules yet regarding “verification of insurance”. Those rules will probably be published after the next legislative session ends in April, 2022.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Arena08
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Arena08 »

Can someone explain where the ID is to be uploaded? I’ve gotten all the way to clicking the submit button on the exemption without having to provide ID. It did require SS# input. Has the proof of ID requirement changed in the last day?
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Cox3497 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:10 pm Can someone explain where the ID is to be uploaded? I’ve gotten all the way to clicking the submit button on the exemption without having to provide ID. It did require SS# input. Has the proof of ID requirement changed in the last day?
The reason the ID is required is to prove your age.
Maybe you already had a SAW account that had your age.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Arena08
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Arena08 »

As far as I’m aware I didn’t have one. If I did, I created a new one for this exemption process. Oh well, I suppose, as long as it lets me submit my exemption. Thanks for the response.
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Ben Mathew
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Ben Mathew »

Cox3497 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:10 pm Can someone explain where the ID is to be uploaded? I’ve gotten all the way to clicking the submit button on the exemption without having to provide ID. It did require SS# input. Has the proof of ID requirement changed in the last day?
IIRC, after you check the five or so checkboxes attesting that you have LTC insurance and you understand you're opting out etc, you have to upload a copy of your ID. This was as of last night. Not sure if things have changed since.
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Isabelle77
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Isabelle77 »

WoW2012 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:14 pm
Cox3497 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:10 pm Can someone explain where the ID is to be uploaded? I’ve gotten all the way to clicking the submit button on the exemption without having to provide ID. It did require SS# input. Has the proof of ID requirement changed in the last day?
The reason the ID is required is to prove your age.
Maybe you already had a SAW account that had your age.
Just created an account as well and no one asked for my ID, nearly positive I've never had an account before.

ETA: I'M WRONG. Once I got through the second section they did ask for an ID. My mistake!
StoopieHippo
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by StoopieHippo »

Cox3497 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:10 pm Can someone explain where the ID is to be uploaded? I’ve gotten all the way to clicking the submit button on the exemption without having to provide ID. It did require SS# input. Has the proof of ID requirement changed in the last day?
Sounds like you just made the account - after that you have to go back in and apply for the exemption, where at the end you need to upload your ID.
Arena08
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Arena08 »

Thanks for the further insight Ben, Isabelle, and StoopieHippo! I got all the way to the submit button on the exemption but haven’t selected it as I’m approved for LTC, but haven’t met with my agent to sign everything yet. That’s probably why I didn’t get to the ID part. I appreciate the help and insight!
Kookaburra
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Kookaburra »

sullim4 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:36 pm FWIW, I just got an updated status saying I was approved. The letter is to be added to the account within 48 hours and will also be snail mailed.

I submitted right around 9am yesterday, before the website crashed.
I’m curious- how were you informed of your updated, exemption-approved status? Did you receive an email notification, or were you just periodically logging into your SAW account and observed the status update? Congrats!
tyros
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tyros »

WoW2012 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:04 pm
Futureplanner wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:49 pm Just a tip for those who haven’t applied for the exemption yet….nowhere on the application do you have to input any information about your LTC insurance. IE you can apply and get approved even before you have a policy in place. I called the office and they told me themselves they won’t be checking to verify policies. What a system.
The ESD is not asking for any information about your policy yet. They specifically state that they do NOT want anyone to upload policy documents or policy information. There’s two reasons for that:
They don’t have the personnel to verify the policies of the 500,000+ people who will opt-out.
They haven’t made any rules yet regarding “verification of insurance”. Those rules will probably be published after the next legislative session ends in April, 2022.
So, what will happen once they do get around to verification next year or whenever and they find out some of those who opted out never had a private LTC insurance? They already approved them and the law says opting out is permanent, so they can't just force them to opt back in. Will they have them pay a fine? Will they force them to get an LTC insurance? What about every year after, will they be auditing every year to make sure you have LTC insurance? It seems ridiculous.
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willthrill81
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

tyros wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:28 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:04 pm
Futureplanner wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:49 pm Just a tip for those who haven’t applied for the exemption yet….nowhere on the application do you have to input any information about your LTC insurance. IE you can apply and get approved even before you have a policy in place. I called the office and they told me themselves they won’t be checking to verify policies. What a system.
The ESD is not asking for any information about your policy yet. They specifically state that they do NOT want anyone to upload policy documents or policy information. There’s two reasons for that:
They don’t have the personnel to verify the policies of the 500,000+ people who will opt-out.
They haven’t made any rules yet regarding “verification of insurance”. Those rules will probably be published after the next legislative session ends in April, 2022.
So, what will happen once they do get around to verification next year or whenever and they find out some of those who opted out never had a private LTC insurance? They already approved them and the law says opting out is permanent, so they can't just force them to opt back in. Will they have them pay a fine? Will they force them to get an LTC insurance? What about every year after, will they be auditing every year to make sure you have LTC insurance? It seems ridiculous.
Nobody knows the answers to most of those questions save one. Those who have a LTC policy in force on 11/1/2021 will be permanently opted out of the tax. They would not not need to be 'audited every year' going forward to make sure they still had a policy. That's the way the law is currently written.
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WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

tyros wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:28 pm
So, what will happen once they do get around to verification next year or whenever and they find out some of those who opted out never had a private LTC insurance? They already approved them and the law says opting out is permanent, so they can't just force them to opt back in. Will they have them pay a fine? Will they force them to get an LTC insurance? What about every year after, will they be auditing every year to make sure you have LTC insurance? It seems ridiculous.
Permanent opt-out means that once someone opts out they can never choose to opt-in again.
Permanent opt-out does NOT mean the government is powerless to revoke someone’s fraudulent opt-out.
You've never heard of people being forced to pay back taxes?
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
MrsBDG
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by MrsBDG »

Does anyone know, if a person lives in another state, but knows they are moving to WA in the next few years, can they get an LTC policy in their state and submit the opt out paperwork? is there anything that specifically says one must be a WA resident or have a WA policy at the time they opt out? If I own a policy in OR and move to WA, I don't have to get a new policy, so I could see some justification for this position, but, of course, it all depends how the exact rule is written.
StoopieHippo
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by StoopieHippo »

MrsBDG wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:57 pm Does anyone know, if a person lives in another state, but knows they are moving to WA in the next few years, can they get an LTC policy in their state and submit the opt out paperwork? is there anything that specifically says one must be a WA resident or have a WA policy at the time they opt out? If I own a policy in OR and move to WA, I don't have to get a new policy, so I could see some justification for this position, but, of course, it all depends how the exact rule is written.
I don't believe it has to be a "WA State policy," but it must be recognized by the state as a LTC policy, which is somewhat specific. It can be held from another state, as long as it meets the LTC definition by the state of WA.
Whakamole
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Whakamole »

MrsBDG wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:57 pm Does anyone know, if a person lives in another state, but knows they are moving to WA in the next few years, can they get an LTC policy in their state and submit the opt out paperwork? is there anything that specifically says one must be a WA resident or have a WA policy at the time they opt out? If I own a policy in OR and move to WA, I don't have to get a new policy, so I could see some justification for this position, but, of course, it all depends how the exact rule is written.
Good question, and an important point: if you may move to WA, or work in an industry like tech which is heavy up here, it may be a good idea to get a LTC policy and request an opt-out, just in case.

There isn't much time to get a policy with full underwriting by the end of the month as the LTCI companies are swamped, but one of the universal life with rider policies may be doable.
czaj
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by czaj »

Whakamole wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:20 am
MrsBDG wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:57 pm Does anyone know, if a person lives in another state, but knows they are moving to WA in the next few years, can they get an LTC policy in their state and submit the opt out paperwork? is there anything that specifically says one must be a WA resident or have a WA policy at the time they opt out? If I own a policy in OR and move to WA, I don't have to get a new policy, so I could see some justification for this position, but, of course, it all depends how the exact rule is written.
Good question, and an important point: if you may move to WA, or work in an industry like tech which is heavy up here, it may be a good idea to get a LTC policy and request an opt-out, just in case.

There isn't much time to get a policy with full underwriting by the end of the month as the LTCI companies are swamped, but one of the universal life with rider policies may be doable.
It’s also worth noting that it may be easier to obtain a non-WA policy right now than a WA one. I believe restrictions companies were imposing were for WA residents only.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Are we sure the non-WA residents can opt-out of Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act that they aren't even eligible for, and not getting taxed starting next year?

They should contact the ESD directly to confirm this. Bad advice on this front can lead to non-WA residents unnecessarily purchasing a policy they don't need.
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willthrill81
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

Whakamole wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:20 am There isn't much time to get a policy with full underwriting by the end of the month as the LTCI companies are swamped, but one of the universal life with rider policies may be doable.
I'm not sure that those policies meet the state's definition of LTC insurance.
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Kookaburra
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Kookaburra »

Is anyone getting exemption approvals yet? For those who are, how are you learning about your newly-approved status - via email notification, regularly checking your status in your SAW account, or other?
Bmac
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Bmac »

Submitted (mine and spouse), but neither approved yet.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

It's interesting some folks got approved right away and some folks aren't. Maybe the ESD are actually reviewing now /s
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davibi02
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by davibi02 »

Kookaburra wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:27 pm Is anyone getting exemption approvals yet? For those who are, how are you learning about your newly-approved status - via email notification, regularly checking your status in your SAW account, or other?
I got an email saying "your status has changed". I was (eventually, after a couple days) able to log in and view the new status of "approved".
tiredinsomniac
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tiredinsomniac »

My wife and I applied on Friday evening around 7:30PM PST (during the reported outage it was actually working before they announced it). We got our email notices this morning about 4 minutes apart from each other.
karwosts
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by karwosts »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:07 am Are we sure the non-WA residents can opt-out of Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act that they aren't even eligible for, and not getting taxed starting next year?

They should contact the ESD directly to confirm this. Bad advice on this front can lead to non-WA residents unnecessarily purchasing a policy they don't need.
I'm a bit dubious. I haven't scrubbed every word of their legal rules, but according to the rules it sounds like only "Employees" can submit the waiver. https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=50B.04.085
(1)An employeewho attests that the employee has long-term care insurance purchased before November 1, 2021, may apply for an exemption from the premium assessment under RCW 50B.04.080. An exempt employee may not become a qualified individual or eligible beneficiary and is permanently ineligible for coverage under this title.
(2)(a) The employment security department must accept applications for exemptions only from October 1, 2021, through December 31, 2022.
(b) Only employees who are eighteen years of age or older may apply for an exemption.
Their [definitions](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=50A.05.010) define employees as
(5)(a) "Employee" means an individual who is in the employment of an employer.
And they define employment as:
The term "employment" includes an individual's entire service performed within or without or both within and without this state, if:
(i) The service is localized in this state; or
(ii) The service is not localized in any state, but some of the service is performed in this state; and
(A) The base of operations of the employee is in the state, or if there is no base of operations, then the place from which such service is directed or controlled is in this state; or
(B) The base of operations or place from which such service is directed or controlled is not in any state in which some part of the service is performed, but the individual's residence is in this state.
But sounds like they aren't actually checking anything, so :confused
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

karwosts wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:24 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:07 am Are we sure the non-WA residents can opt-out of Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act that they aren't even eligible for, and not getting taxed starting next year?

They should contact the ESD directly to confirm this. Bad advice on this front can lead to non-WA residents unnecessarily purchasing a policy they don't need.
I'm a bit dubious. I haven't scrubbed every word of their legal rules, but according to the rules it sounds like only "Employees" can submit the waiver. https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=50B.04.085
(1)An employeewho attests that the employee has long-term care insurance purchased before November 1, 2021, may apply for an exemption from the premium assessment under RCW 50B.04.080. An exempt employee may not become a qualified individual or eligible beneficiary and is permanently ineligible for coverage under this title.
(2)(a) The employment security department must accept applications for exemptions only from October 1, 2021, through December 31, 2022.
(b) Only employees who are eighteen years of age or older may apply for an exemption.
Their [definitions](https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=50A.05.010) define employees as
(5)(a) "Employee" means an individual who is in the employment of an employer.
And they define employment as:
The term "employment" includes an individual's entire service performed within or without or both within and without this state, if:
(i) The service is localized in this state; or
(ii) The service is not localized in any state, but some of the service is performed in this state; and
(A) The base of operations of the employee is in the state, or if there is no base of operations, then the place from which such service is directed or controlled is in this state; or
(B) The base of operations or place from which such service is directed or controlled is not in any state in which some part of the service is performed, but the individual's residence is in this state.
But sounds like they aren't actually checking anything, so :confused
My interpretation of an "employee" is anyone receiving a W-2. In that sense, non-WA residents also receive W-2 provided they're working for some employer.

However, I don't know if non-residents can opt-out of something they aren't even part of. Does the Nov 1 deadline even apply for them?
karwosts
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by karwosts »

Marseille07 wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:29 pm My interpretation of an "employee" is anyone receiving a W-2. In that sense, non-WA residents also receive W-2 provided they're working for some employer.

However, I don't know if non-residents can opt-out of something they aren't even part of. Does the Nov 1 deadline even apply for them?
I mean that's your interpretation, but the state has a webpage and it literally says: "Our definition of an employee is this", which enumerates a big legal list of jargon involving working in the state of washington, for an employer registered in the state of washington, with a state of washington tax id, etc.

I have not seen any blog or article anywhere which tries to clarify what this all means for someone who is not currently a resident, but who plans to become one someday. Luckily you can at least opt out until the end of 2022, but then it all comes back to if you had insurance recognized by washington state by prior to Nov 1, 2021. So I have no idea!

From their rules it's not even clear to me if someone who is currently unemployed is eligible to file for an exemption, since they clearly say that employees may request an exemption. What a confusing mess.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

karwosts wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:36 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:29 pm My interpretation of an "employee" is anyone receiving a W-2. In that sense, non-WA residents also receive W-2 provided they're working for some employer.

However, I don't know if non-residents can opt-out of something they aren't even part of. Does the Nov 1 deadline even apply for them?
I mean that's your interpretation, but the state has a webpage and it literally says: "Our definition of an employee is this", which enumerates a big legal list of jargon involving working in the state of washington, for an employer registered in the state of washington, with a state of washington tax id, etc.

I have not seen any blog or article anywhere which tries to clarify what this all means for someone who is not currently a resident, but who plans to become one someday. Luckily you can at least opt out until the end of 2022, but then it all comes back to if you had insurance recognized by washington state by prior to Nov 1, 2021. So I have no idea!

From their rules it's not even clear to me if someone who is currently unemployed is eligible to file for an exemption, since they clearly say that employees may request an exemption. What a confusing mess.
I think we're kind of on the same page, as I was dubious non-WA residents can get a policy elsewhere and opt out of WA LTCi today. This is why my original suggestion was to check with the ESD, not blindly purchase a policy and hope everything works out.
tiredinsomniac
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tiredinsomniac »

It's crazy how they can't keep their website running. Same errors that happened on Friday have been plaguing it all this week...
RoyHobbs9
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:34 pm
pasadena wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:31 pm
Bmac wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm What are younger folks doing? I have 18 and 16 yo kids. I know I can’t do anything for the 16 yo yet (and she’s not working yet anyway). But the 18 yo works part time. Definitely not considering a LTC policy at this age.
I'm not young, but honestly, it's not about having LTC insurance. It's about dodging the tax. The younger you are, the more you're going to pay into this before ever needing it, and the more likely you will be to end up somewhere else anyway.

I would take one - at 18 they should be very cheap - then cancel it after a year or two.
It's almost certainly too late to get a policy by 11/1/2021 if you haven't at least already started the application process.
Northwestern Mutual is still taking applications and I believe their lowest age is 18. State Farm is also still taking applications, but I don't know what their age limit is.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by willthrill81 »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:12 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:34 pm
pasadena wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:31 pm
Bmac wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:25 pm What are younger folks doing? I have 18 and 16 yo kids. I know I can’t do anything for the 16 yo yet (and she’s not working yet anyway). But the 18 yo works part time. Definitely not considering a LTC policy at this age.
I'm not young, but honestly, it's not about having LTC insurance. It's about dodging the tax. The younger you are, the more you're going to pay into this before ever needing it, and the more likely you will be to end up somewhere else anyway.

I would take one - at 18 they should be very cheap - then cancel it after a year or two.
It's almost certainly too late to get a policy by 11/1/2021 if you haven't at least already started the application process.
Northwestern Mutual is still taking applications and I believe their lowest age is 18. State Farm is also still taking applications, but I don't know what their age limit is.
Taking applications is one thing, but getting a policy issued in < 4 weeks may be another matter. From the time that I applied with NYL, I believe that it took close to 2 months to get approved.
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RoyHobbs9
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

Very true. My policy with Nationwide has been processing for 93 days. I've been approved, it's been issued, but the draft hasn't hit my account yet, so it's not in-force.

I know that State Farm and Northwestern Mutual are processing faster than the rest. NM is drafting almost immediately at the time of application, and figuring the rest out later.
chance
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by chance »

What are people paying for LTC policies? Just curious how much less it is than the tax that you are all trying to avoid.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by drk »

chance wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:27 pm What are people paying for LTC policies? Just curious how much less it is than the tax that you are all trying to avoid.
My policy costs a little less than a quarter of what I would pay in taxes.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by pasadena »

drk wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:46 pm
chance wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:27 pm What are people paying for LTC policies? Just curious how much less it is than the tax that you are all trying to avoid.
My policy costs a little less than a quarter of what I would pay in taxes.
For me it's a little less than half one third for 1 year (although I don't know exactly what the base is. If it includes RSU income, then the difference it's even bigger). I will most certainly cancel the policy after 1 or 2 years (depending on what happens next year with regards to rule clarifications and so on).

It's not a huge amount of money - I was going to go with the tax at first, even though I have 0 chance to ever need it, I understand it's not for people like me - but it does add up over several years.
Last edited by pasadena on Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
drk
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by drk »

pasadena wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:48 pm (although I don't know exactly what the base is. If it includes RSU income, then the difference it's even bigger)
RSUs are subject to the FICA and WA Paid Family/Medical Leave payroll taxes, so I assume that they will be subject to this as well.
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by pasadena »

drk wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:52 pm
pasadena wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:48 pm (although I don't know exactly what the base is. If it includes RSU income, then the difference it's even bigger)
RSUs are subject to the FICA and WA Paid Family/Medical Leave payroll taxes, so I assume that they will be subject to this as well.
I assume so as well (they do appear on my paystub and it does make sense), although I didn't know they were subject to FMLA (my employer is exempt from that one).
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

pasadena wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 6:48 pm For me it's a little less than half for 1 year (although I don't know exactly what the base is. If it includes RSU income, then the difference it's even bigger). I will most certainly cancel the policy after 1 or 2 years (depending on what happens next year with regards to rule clarifications and so on).
I assumed W-2's Box 1 would be the base (though deducted per pay period).
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