Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

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BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Marseille07 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:49 pm
BruDude wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:44 pm I personally find it very hard to believe that the law won't be amended to require verification of coverage, possibly on an annual basis, given how many people will try to opt out. When the funding that was supposed to be there for this law doesn't come anywhere close to the projections, they will almost certainly make changes to it. IMO, it would be extremely short-sighted to cancel a policy immediately after getting an exemption. You'd be saving a few hundred bucks on the upside and risking being taxed for life on the downside. Keep your coverage for a few years and see what shakes out legislatively, this thing has a long way to go IMO.
As I mentioned upthread, those "tech workers" are getting a group policy through employers. They don't even have to cancel coverage. The ESD can keep verifying but those making big bucks on W-2 will pass the verification process year in and year out.
Many of them already missed deadlines or will cancel. I’ve sent in about 15 apps all from tech workers whose employer either didn’t offer anything or the cost was 2-4x the price of buying their own policy. It’s not like the employer is paying the premium for everyone.
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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

paradisenostril wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:03 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:46 pm
definitelynotMike wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:15 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:05 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:45 pm Did you read this poster's comment? viewtopic.php?p=6161718#p6161718


Yes I read his comments. By 2023 we'll know if he was right or if I was right.
But I am right because I'm talking about the law as it is currently written.

You should be clearer that your opinion is that the law will change in this specific way. You may be right about future changes, but your comments come across as though it is the current state of the law.

You wrote,
"the only verification they can do is to ensure someone had a qualifying policy purchased by the deadline and that they were 18 or older."

That's not in the law.
That's your opinion.

The law is silent about the details of verification.


We'll know which of us was write sometime in 2023.
Adopted rule WAC 192-905-005 says "The department may verify an employee's long-term care insurance coverage." Also, the law itself says "verify the attestation of an employee that the employee has long-term care insurance."

Law and rules are subject to interpretation but it would be wrong to say the law is silent about what they are verifying.
Um, you completely missed the important part of RCW 50B.04.085: “ (3) The employment security department is NOT required to verify the attestation of an employee that the employee has long-term care insurance.”

There seems to be a lot of confusion here between the law (RCW) and the implementation of the law (WAC).
paradisenostril
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by paradisenostril »

truenyer wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:38 pm
paradisenostril wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:03 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:46 pm
definitelynotMike wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:15 pm
WoW2012 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:05 pm

Yes I read his comments. By 2023 we'll know if he was right or if I was right.
But I am right because I'm talking about the law as it is currently written.

You should be clearer that your opinion is that the law will change in this specific way. You may be right about future changes, but your comments come across as though it is the current state of the law.

You wrote,
"the only verification they can do is to ensure someone had a qualifying policy purchased by the deadline and that they were 18 or older."

That's not in the law.
That's your opinion.

The law is silent about the details of verification.


We'll know which of us was write sometime in 2023.
Adopted rule WAC 192-905-005 says "The department may verify an employee's long-term care insurance coverage." Also, the law itself says "verify the attestation of an employee that the employee has long-term care insurance."

Law and rules are subject to interpretation but it would be wrong to say the law is silent about what they are verifying.
Um, you completely missed the important part of RCW 50B.04.085: “ (3) The employment security department is NOT required to verify the attestation of an employee that the employee has long-term care insurance.”

There seems to be a lot of confusion here between the law (RCW) and the implementation of the law (WAC).
I am aware of what the rest of the sentence is. But that is the only line in the law that implicitly gives authority to ESD to do a verification. I was showing that both the law and rule are specific about what the verification involves (check for LTCI coverage). It also allows for age verification.

I am still waiting on WoW to provide anything that indicates ESD has legal authority to revoke an approval once it's been issued (based on current law).
Last edited by paradisenostril on Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

BruDude wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:37 pm Many of them already missed deadlines or will cancel. I’ve sent in about 15 apps all from tech workers whose employer either didn’t offer anything or the cost was 2-4x the price of buying their own policy. It’s not like the employer is paying the premium for everyone.
I see. Hopefully my place comes up with something good. Apparently I notified the HR first and I'm moving the needle.
Futureplanner
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Futureplanner »

Question:

I have the option to select 3% inflation protection on a policy for a premium of $1400 annually. Or I can select no inflation protection for $1000 annually. What’s the better option? Thoughts??
pnwgreenteas
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by pnwgreenteas »

Is there any insurance firm still taking applications for someone of 35 and older? Open to buying life insurance along with LTC if that is the only available option. Tried to go with NW but my agent could not get my application in on time and NYL stated that they are offering LTC only 40 and up.
trirunner
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by trirunner »

How important is the inflation protected provision. Would it disqualify you from opting out if there isn't one. Also, I applied for NYL LTC before my company offered a group policy. They are pretty similar, (the group doesn't have inflation protection though). Is there a reason to go with one or the other?
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

pnwgreenteas wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:55 pm Is there any insurance firm still taking applications for someone of 35 and older? Open to buying life insurance along with LTC if that is the only available option. Tried to go with NW but my agent could not get my application in on time and NYL stated that they are offering LTC only 40 and up.
Equitable is selling but the rates aren’t great.it’s an IUL policy so if terminated in the future you'd at least get to keep the cash value. Nationwide has officially suspended all LTC sales as of yesterday for Washington.
RoyHobbs9
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

Futureplanner wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:58 am Question:

I have the option to select 3% inflation protection on a policy for a premium of $1400 annually. Or I can select no inflation protection for $1000 annually. What’s the better option? Thoughts??
Transamerica still has an option. It's a Jurassic era paper app with an IUL-LTC hybrid that satisfies the WA opt out requirements. If you are willing to deal with the time-suck of a paper app, it could make sense.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

RoyHobbs9 wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:33 pm
Futureplanner wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:58 am Question:

I have the option to select 3% inflation protection on a policy for a premium of $1400 annually. Or I can select no inflation protection for $1000 annually. What’s the better option? Thoughts??
Transamerica still has an option. It's a Jurassic era paper app with an IUL-LTC hybrid that satisfies the WA opt out requirements. If you are willing to deal with the time-suck of a paper app, it could make sense.
FWIW my brokerage removed Transamerica entirely from the quoting software this week because they’ve had so many problems with the company over the last 6 months or so. Their service and old school methods of business are pretty terrible, but one option is better than no option.

I was also told that Equitable may pull their product soon but nothing confirmed.
RoyHobbs9
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RoyHobbs9 »

BruDude wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:54 pm
RoyHobbs9 wrote: Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:33 pm
Futureplanner wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:58 am Question:

I have the option to select 3% inflation protection on a policy for a premium of $1400 annually. Or I can select no inflation protection for $1000 annually. What’s the better option? Thoughts??
Transamerica still has an option. It's a Jurassic era paper app with an IUL-LTC hybrid that satisfies the WA opt out requirements. If you are willing to deal with the time-suck of a paper app, it could make sense.
FWIW my brokerage removed Transamerica entirely from the quoting software this week because they’ve had so many problems with the company over the last 6 months or so. Their service and old school methods of business are pretty terrible, but one option is better than no option.

I was also told that Equitable may pull their product soon but nothing confirmed.
Good to know. One America's Whole Life/LTC hybrid is pulling the plug in WA on Friday. I'm guessing 2pm PST if it is anything like what Mutual of Omaha and Nationwide did last week.
RL1013
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by RL1013 »

Why are all these companies suddenly stopping giving LTC to WA folks?
tj
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by tj »

RL1013 wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:11 pm Why are all these companies suddenly stopping giving LTC to WA folks?

Not enough profit on these micro policies with high probability of lapse, I imagine
Whakamole
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Whakamole »

RL1013 wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:11 pm Why are all these companies suddenly stopping giving LTC to WA folks?
They know people are buying LTC policies, will get the permanent opt-out from the state, and then will drop the insurance. Insurance companies are not going to make money if someone keeps a policy for six months, after medical underwriting and other overhead costs. And let's be honest - those of us who are buying $50K policies (for a few hundred a year depending on age) to avoid a 0.58% tax have high enough incomes that $50K is a bit of a joke, and either we'd self-insure or buy a more substantial policy.

I've heard some companies that are staying are increasing minimum coverage; a good idea (for the companies) since it weeds out people buying a $50K policy just to avoid the tax, or at the very least forces them to pay more for their billing period to cover their overhead.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Whakamole wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:28 pm
RL1013 wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:11 pm Why are all these companies suddenly stopping giving LTC to WA folks?
They know people are buying LTC policies, will get the permanent opt-out from the state, and then will drop the insurance. Insurance companies are not going to make money if someone keeps a policy for six months, after medical underwriting and other overhead costs. And let's be honest - those of us who are buying $50K policies (for a few hundred a year depending on age) to avoid a 0.58% tax have high enough incomes that $50K is a bit of a joke, and either we'd self-insure or buy a more substantial policy.

I've heard some companies that are staying are increasing minimum coverage; a good idea (for the companies) since it weeds out people buying a $50K policy just to avoid the tax, or at the very least forces them to pay more for their billing period to cover their overhead.
^This. It's also bad for an insurance company's total book of business to have a high lapse ratio and it looks bad to investors/stockholders. National Guardian Life just changed their rules for WA LTC policies to require a 10-pay payment structure and a minimum premium of $6k per year. That's basically them saying "we are only interested in people who want actual LTC insurance"
czaj
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by czaj »

Anybody know how long NYL underwriting process is taking? Had my interview two weeks ago, figure it'll at least take another few weeks. I'm also not sure if they'll require medical records since I'm under 30 with no pre-existing conditions. I haven't been contacted to authorize medical record release.

It was a cheap policy--are there chances they will deny based on the policy I applied for? Or merely offer a richer policy?

EDIT: Was just notified same day as this post that my wife and I were approved under preferred status.
Last edited by czaj on Thu Aug 12, 2021 9:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
iamlucky13
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by iamlucky13 »

Does anyone know if private long term care insurance has to meet the state benefit level of $36,500 in order to qualify for the exemption?

The insurance company my employer is partnering with is offering a couple maximum benefit levels. The lowest is below the state benefit. The company indicated the plans qualify for the exemption, but I wanted to doublecheck if anyone is aware of amount of coverage being a requirement.
sullim4
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by sullim4 »

Yeah, I’m wondering about minimums as well.

My wife’s employer is offering a $50k plan, which exceeds the state minimum, but it maxes out at $2000 monthly, which is less than the state’s $100 per day benefit.

Is there any clarity on what minimums are required? Is it the monthly benefit or the lifetime max that they care about?
MrsBDG
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by MrsBDG »

This is what I got:
Effective August 14th OneAmerica will be suspending sales of Asset Care in WA state only. All applications must be received at One America’s Home Office in good order by close of business on Aug 13, 2021. Beginning August 14th WA applications will no longer be accepted.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

sullim4 wrote: Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:47 pm Yeah, I’m wondering about minimums as well.

My wife’s employer is offering a $50k plan, which exceeds the state minimum, but it maxes out at $2000 monthly, which is less than the state’s $100 per day benefit.

Is there any clarity on what minimums are required? Is it the monthly benefit or the lifetime max that they care about?
There is nothing in the law that specifies a minimum benefit level required for exemption, just has to meet the state definition of LTC.
MrsBDG
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by MrsBDG »

Transamerica still has an option. It's a Jurassic era paper app with an IUL-LTC hybrid that satisfies the WA opt out requirements. If you are willing to deal with the time-suck of a paper app, it could make sense.
Transamerica will not accept any new apps after end of business today and, yes, it's a 50 page PDF that required some fill ins and some typing details, but will allow e-policy delivery. Thanks to this forum, I was able to help a couple of people who got in touch this week.
Impromptu
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Impromptu »

I thought I got into the process early enough. I started a Banker's Life LTC application in June. The insurance agent cashed my check on July 6. I had my medical phone interview with a nurse on August 10. Today I emailed a medical release form for my PCP.

I hope that I get approved, otherwise with how long this is taking I will not be able to start over and get the entire process done in time.
I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.
phmbz
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by phmbz »

Impromptu wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:14 am I thought I got into the process early enough. I started a Banker's Life LTC application in June. The insurance agent cashed my check on July 6. I had my medical phone interview with a nurse on August 10. Today I emailed a medical release form for my PCP.

I hope that I get approved, otherwise with how long this is taking I will not be able to start over and get the entire process done in time.
Why did the agent/company cash your premium payment even before you have your interview? I thought after you get approved and sign the contract that's when you pay them?
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

phmbz wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:24 pm
Impromptu wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:14 am I thought I got into the process early enough. I started a Banker's Life LTC application in June. The insurance agent cashed my check on July 6. I had my medical phone interview with a nurse on August 10. Today I emailed a medical release form for my PCP.

I hope that I get approved, otherwise with how long this is taking I will not be able to start over and get the entire process done in time.
Why did the agent/company cash your premium payment even before you have your interview? I thought after you get approved and sign the contract that's when you pay them?
You have the option of paying at time of app or before issue. The insurance company issues a temporary insurance agreement that covers you between the date of approval and date of policy signing. Some agents use it as a way to make sure they “capture” the business so a client doesn’t go elsewhere. I always just have my clients pay after approval.
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truenyer
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by truenyer »

Impromptu wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:14 am I thought I got into the process early enough. I started a Banker's Life LTC application in June. The insurance agent cashed my check on July 6. I had my medical phone interview with a nurse on August 10. Today I emailed a medical release form for my PCP.

I hope that I get approved, otherwise with how long this is taking I will not be able to start over and get the entire process done in time.
We applied with them in May. Records were received a few weeks ago. Still waiting.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

BruDude wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:26 pm
phmbz wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:24 pm
Impromptu wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:14 am I thought I got into the process early enough. I started a Banker's Life LTC application in June. The insurance agent cashed my check on July 6. I had my medical phone interview with a nurse on August 10. Today I emailed a medical release form for my PCP.

I hope that I get approved, otherwise with how long this is taking I will not be able to start over and get the entire process done in time.
Why did the agent/company cash your premium payment even before you have your interview? I thought after you get approved and sign the contract that's when you pay them?
You have the option of paying at time of app or before issue. The insurance company issues a temporary insurance agreement that covers you between the date of approval and date of policy signing. Some agents use it as a way to make sure they “capture” the business so a client doesn’t go elsewhere. I always just have my clients pay after approval.
I don't recall such an option being presented to me, but my premium was also debited 2 days after applying. No interviews yet. If I am not approved, I need to make sure I get a refund.
mrtimo
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by mrtimo »

Just reading through this thread for the first time today. Looks like I'm late to the party and many places are no longer offering policies for WA residents.
I'm 38, healthy with no pre-existing conditions, looking to get something setup ASAP. I get my other home/car insurance through USAA, but it looks like they are no longer taking applications. Is NY Life my best option? Who can I trust will be able to get this setup before the deadline?
edit - Just checked, NYL is no longer offering insurance for this in WA
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

deleted
Last edited by Marseille07 on Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

mrtimo wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:55 pm Just reading through this thread for the first time today. Looks like I'm late to the party and many places are no longer offering policies for WA residents.
I'm 38, healthy with no pre-existing conditions, looking to get something setup ASAP. I get my other home/car insurance through USAA, but it looks like they are no longer taking applications. Is NY Life my best option? Who can I trust will be able to get this setup before the deadline?
edit - Just checked, NYL is no longer offering insurance for this in WA
Try Bankers Life
Isabelle77
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Isabelle77 »

Marseille07 wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:53 pm
BruDude wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:26 pm
phmbz wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:24 pm
Impromptu wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:14 am I thought I got into the process early enough. I started a Banker's Life LTC application in June. The insurance agent cashed my check on July 6. I had my medical phone interview with a nurse on August 10. Today I emailed a medical release form for my PCP.

I hope that I get approved, otherwise with how long this is taking I will not be able to start over and get the entire process done in time.
Why did the agent/company cash your premium payment even before you have your interview? I thought after you get approved and sign the contract that's when you pay them?
You have the option of paying at time of app or before issue. The insurance company issues a temporary insurance agreement that covers you between the date of approval and date of policy signing. Some agents use it as a way to make sure they “capture” the business so a client doesn’t go elsewhere. I always just have my clients pay after approval.
I don't recall such an option being presented to me, but my premium was also debited 2 days after applying. No interviews yet. If I am not approved, I need to make sure I get a refund.
This happened to us as well. Our agent said that once they take payment you're implicitly approved.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Isabelle77 wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:26 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sun Aug 15, 2021 4:53 pm
BruDude wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:26 pm
phmbz wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:24 pm
Impromptu wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:14 am I thought I got into the process early enough. I started a Banker's Life LTC application in June. The insurance agent cashed my check on July 6. I had my medical phone interview with a nurse on August 10. Today I emailed a medical release form for my PCP.

I hope that I get approved, otherwise with how long this is taking I will not be able to start over and get the entire process done in time.
Why did the agent/company cash your premium payment even before you have your interview? I thought after you get approved and sign the contract that's when you pay them?
You have the option of paying at time of app or before issue. The insurance company issues a temporary insurance agreement that covers you between the date of approval and date of policy signing. Some agents use it as a way to make sure they “capture” the business so a client doesn’t go elsewhere. I always just have my clients pay after approval.
I don't recall such an option being presented to me, but my premium was also debited 2 days after applying. No interviews yet. If I am not approved, I need to make sure I get a refund.
This happened to us as well. Our agent said that once they take payment you're implicitly approved.
Not true. They still have to approve the policy.
mrtimo
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by mrtimo »

BruDude wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:16 pm
mrtimo wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:55 pm Just reading through this thread for the first time today. Looks like I'm late to the party and many places are no longer offering policies for WA residents.
I'm 38, healthy with no pre-existing conditions, looking to get something setup ASAP. I get my other home/car insurance through USAA, but it looks like they are no longer taking applications. Is NY Life my best option? Who can I trust will be able to get this setup before the deadline?
edit - Just checked, NYL is no longer offering insurance for this in WA
Try Bankers Life
Just emailed a rep from bankers life here is what they said:

"unfortunately we can only help 50 and offer and as far as I know everyone else has quit doing then altogether we are the only one that can still do them for 50+. I'm sorry I wish I could help. Let me know if you have anyone over 50 that needs it"

This stinks!
Any other ideas?
Last edited by mrtimo on Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Indigo
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Indigo »

As another data point for those who have applied to Bankers Life for traditional LTC coverage, I applied for a traditional LTC policy towards the end of June. Shortly after applying, I had a medical interview with a broker which consisted of answering yes/no to ~30 or so questions. BL also checked my prescription history. I remember getting accepted within the next day or so via an email from the broker. The policy documents came in a few weeks (third week of July). They debited my account immediately after my application was approved (early July). Perhaps those who are still waiting on an approval from BL have medical conditions or got a different LTC policy that takes longer to approve.
intendi
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by intendi »

@mrtimo

You're not alone I'm sure. This is obviously unfair to folks like you and I suspect there will be legal challenges on this basis. I'd document all your efforts.

The insurance industry was obviously not consulted (enough) on this plan for them to be refusing clients.
Indigo
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Indigo »

intendi wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:34 pm @mrtimo

You're not alone I'm sure. This is obviously unfair to folks like you and I suspect there will be legal challenges on this basis. I'd document all your efforts.

The insurance industry was obviously not consulted (enough) on this plan for them to be refusing clients.
It seems to me that the LTC Trust Act was created as an effort for the state to collecting funds to pay future medical care costs of those who either were unable or chose not to save for future medical costs. It's not a push to get people to sign up for LTC from public companies. The one time opt out was a compromise to some interest groups. Perhaps it was put in place for those 55 and up. If you're retiring within the next 10 years you'll be required to pay the tax without much of a chance of getting any direct benefit unless you opt out. Younger folks will at least have an opportunity to claim benefits even if those benefits are meager.
WoW2012
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by WoW2012 »

Indigo wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:08 pm As another data point for those who have applied to Bankers Life for traditional LTC coverage, I applied for a traditional LTC policy towards the end of June. Shortly after applying, I had a medical interview with a broker which consisted of answering yes/no to ~30 or so questions. BL also checked my prescription history. I remember getting accepted within the next day or so via an email from the broker. The policy documents came in a few weeks (third week of July). They debited my account immediately after my application was approved (early July). Perhaps those who are still waiting on an approval from BL have medical conditions or got a different LTC policy that takes longer to approve.

Different policies have different types of underwriting.

Most companies use "full medical underwriting". That involves cognitive screening, medical records collection and review, possibly even a physical with blood and urine.

Some companies use "expedited underwriting" which only requires a phone interview and a prescription drug check.

Bankers Life offers one policy that requires "full medical underwriting" and another policy that has "expedited underwriting". The "expedited underwriting" is only available for people age 50 to 70.
Disclaimer: I am a licensed insurance professional and am certified as a long-term care insurance specialist.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

BruDude wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:33 pm Not true. They still have to approve the policy.
But what grounds do they have to debit my premium before my application is approved? Am I covered if I somehow need LTCI during the application process? The amount isn't crazy, but this practice looks strange to me.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:22 pm
BruDude wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:33 pm Not true. They still have to approve the policy.
But what grounds do they have to debit my premium before my application is approved? Am I covered if I somehow need LTCI during the application process? The amount isn't crazy, but this practice looks strange to me.
Read the temporary insurance agreement section and see what it says. The grounds they have is you agreeing to it as part of the application. You can still cancel any time within the free look period and get a full refund.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

BruDude wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:25 pm Read the temporary insurance agreement section and see what it says. The grounds they have is you agreeing to it as part of the application. You can still cancel any time within the free look period and get a full refund.
I did. They talk about the possibility of premiums increasing over time, the coverage is effective on the date of application approval + premium payment yada yada yada. They do not talk about charging me before approval...

Also, one thing I noticed is NYL makes it difficult to pay annually. I was told that I need to pay by check, whereas I can let them do ACH debits for monthly. But looking at the quotes more carefully, the annual option is cheaper and I should've done this perhaps.
oakleyram
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by oakleyram »

I've been quite annoyed with recent developments: I work for a large company and previously confirmed with HR that there was not going to be a employer sponsored option for opt out and we were on our own. They had sent out a letter with insurance companies we could contact. I rushed to sign up with NYL since options for my age were quickly dwindling. Then last week all of a sudden my company announced they had a partnership and was offering UL + LTC packages. It's about 10% cheaper than the Assetflex I signed up for and all the benefit terms are better. :oops:

I am already past the free look phase of my contract so I'm stuck with what I have now
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:41 pm Also, one thing I noticed is NYL makes it difficult to pay annually. I was told that I need to pay by check, whereas I can let them do ACH debits for monthly. But looking at the quotes more carefully, the annual option is cheaper and I should've done this perhaps.
Did you get Assetflex with NYL? My agent just assumed I was going to pay annually and I did so with an ACH payment (after I confirmed the premium was marginally cheaper this way)
Last edited by oakleyram on Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

oakleyram wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:11 pm I've been quite annoyed with recent developments: I work for a large company and previously confirmed with HR that there was not going to be a employer sponsored option for opt out and we were on our own. They had sent out a letter with insurance companies we could contact. Then last week all of a sudden they announced they had a partnership and was offering UL + LTC packages. It's about 10% cheaper than the Assetflex I signed up for and all the benefit terms are better. :oops:

I am already past the free look phase of my contract so I'm stuck with what I have now
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:41 pm Also, one thing I noticed is NYL makes it difficult to pay annually. I was told that I need to pay by check, whereas I can let them do ACH debits for monthly. But looking at the quotes more carefully, the annual option is cheaper and I should've done this perhaps.
Did you get Assetflex with NYL? My agent just assumed I was going to pay annually and I did so with an ACH payment (after I confirmed the premium was marginally cheaper this way)
I'm doing their traditional standalone LTCI. AssetFlex seemed like a UL + LTCI rider plan, but I already have UL via employer.

What are you going to do about yours? Are you going with your employer's UL + LTC and cancel AssetFlex?
oakleyram
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by oakleyram »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:15 pm I'm doing their traditional standalone LTCI. AssetFlex seemed like a UL + LTCI rider plan, but I already have UL via employer.

What are you going to do about yours? Are you going with your employer's UL + LTC and cancel AssetFlex?
I already paid for the full year premium and am past the free look period, so if I cancel I can't get any refunds I'm assuming...
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

oakleyram wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:21 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:15 pm I'm doing their traditional standalone LTCI. AssetFlex seemed like a UL + LTCI rider plan, but I already have UL via employer.

What are you going to do about yours? Are you going with your employer's UL + LTC and cancel AssetFlex?
I already paid for the full year premium and am past the free look period, so if I cancel I can't get any refunds I'm assuming...
I see. I'll read my policy document again to see if it talks about the free look period. I wonder what happens if they don't approve your application before the free look period. I don't know when the clock starts, since they're already debiting my premium.
oakleyram
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by oakleyram »

Marseille07 wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:27 pm I see. I'll read my policy document again to see if it talks about the free look period. I wonder what happens if they don't approve your application before the free look period. I don't know when the clock starts, since they're already debiting my premium.
I assume if you haven't been officially approved, you should be able to cancel anytime for a refund? For NYL the free look is 10 days I believe (at least that was the case for my policy)
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

oakleyram wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:36 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:27 pm I see. I'll read my policy document again to see if it talks about the free look period. I wonder what happens if they don't approve your application before the free look period. I don't know when the clock starts, since they're already debiting my premium.
I assume if you haven't been officially approved, you should be able to cancel anytime for a refund? For NYL the free look is 10 days I believe (at least that was the case for my policy)
This is the language in my application:
a. 30 Day Free Look Period. Within 30 days after your policy is delivered, You can return the policy to the company
at the address listed above or to the agent through whom it was purchased. The policy will be void from the
start, and a full premium refund will be made directly to the payer within 30 days of the policy’s return.
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Corsair
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Corsair »

I hope there are lawsuits re: this, it's discriminatory for those who cannot obtain TLC to opt out.
All posts are my own opinions and are not financial advice.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

My workplace doesn't seem to be doing anything. When I pinged them late July, they said "mid-August." I pinged the same person yesterday and no response.

If NYL doesn't work out then I might be stranded.
BruDude
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by BruDude »

Update - Equitable stopped selling their LTC rider. Mass Mutual still has an LTC rider on their whole life policy with a minimum benefit amount of $97k. Premium for a 40 year old male is about $1700/year, 40 year old female about $1400/year for the best health rating. Since it's whole life it does at least have some cash value if canceled in the future. As an example after 10 years the projected cash value is $9900 on a total premium paid of ~$15,500, net cost ~$500-600/year if cashed out after 10 years. Not the best option unless you're making $250k+ but an option at least.
Marseille07
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by Marseille07 »

Looks like my workplace won't offer group LTC. I need to get into NYL or I'm screwed.
it'smyjob?
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Re: Washington State Long Term Care Trust Act - 0.58% payroll tax - $36,500 lifetime maximum benefit

Post by it'smyjob? »

I dragged my feet on this (like most things). What insurance companies are still selling LTC insurance for 60-somethings? I checked NY Life and the page says it is temporarily not selling in WA state.
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