Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

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Topic Author
Annabel Lee
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Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Annabel Lee »

BH: appreciate your qualitative (and OK, quantitative because I know it’s coming anyways) input on a potential housing choice my wife and I are looking at making.

We have two preschool-age kids and live on a relatively busy street (call it the Main Street of our 25k person town) in a nice older suburban home. The busy street attracts an older crowd and while our neighbors are ok, the street makes it hard for us to build a community here. No nearby family as I relocated here for work, pre-pandemic.

The house has a smaller yard and the driveway isn’t ideal so there aren’t many places for my very active kids to play outside, especially as they start to outgrow the backyard. Parks are plentiful but all driving distance. Inside, there’s no master bathroom, no decent tub, limited storage and we’re starting to outgrow this place due to a business my wife has started that is growing... and due to me working from home in our bedroom. No real ability/room to renovate to add space.

We’ve browsed a bit and found a new construction house on a quiet interior street in town, full of families like ours. It has a big, open yard, an office, a huge basement and would appear to solve the space issues we have here and give us amenities that we’re looking for. It’s also $1M vs. our current place (valued at $600k).

From a quality of life standpoint: would you pull the trigger on this?

Maybe phrased differently: presuming you could afford the difference in PITI, and could see yourself staying in this location for a long period of time, are the advantages of the new place commensurate with the increased expense, and would you do this to reap the benefits?
neverpanic
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by neverpanic »

It's a no-brainer. Where you're living does not match the vision you have for your family. You want to move, you've already identified the neighborhood you would rather be in, and you've determined that you can afford it. At that price, I'm assuming the new place is going to have good/excellent schools.

I'm presumably older than you, but as I look back, I can see so many chances where I should have done something to enhance my quality of life or that of my family and I decided not to because of some arbitrary set of guidelines whose function was to put a ceiling on my enjoyment of life.

Buy the house with the big backyard. And if you're building a pool, put it in while the kids are young enough to enjoy it.
Last edited by neverpanic on Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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stan1
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by stan1 »

You have a lot more than two choices. I would encourage you to look at all your options carefully. Other properties will come on the market.

Are you renting or do you own the current house? If you bought it what attracted you to it?

Personally I would not choose to live on a busy "main street" in any town or city. Maybe if I had 100 acres off a busy highway in a rural area but to me that is an "incurable defect" that will always be an issue with the property that you can't fix.

You aren't giving us your income or assets so have to assume you can easily afford the $1M house. If your family would enjoy living there why not?
corysold
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by corysold »

As someone who faced a similar, though not identical decision, I can 1000% say moving to the house with the bigger yard and space for the kids to play was the right decision.

We did the "go to the park everytime the kids wanted to be outside" thing for a few years. Having a large yard where they can just "go play" has been worth it completely.
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Annabel Lee
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Annabel Lee »

stan1 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:38 pm You have a lot more than two choices. I would encourage you to look at all your options carefully. Other properties will come on the market.

Are you renting or do you own the current house? If you bought it what attracted you to it?

Personally I would not choose to live on a busy "main street" in any town or city. Maybe if I had 100 acres off a busy highway in a rural area but to me that is an "incurable defect" that will always be an issue with the property that you can't fix.

You aren't giving us your income or assets so have to assume you can easily afford the $1M house. If your family would enjoy living there why not?
Thanks, this is a good reminder that the decision isn’t binary. We’ve been casually browsing on Redfin and this place jumped out, but we’ll look broadly.

Our house was right at the time I purchased (with one infant and my wife pregnant with my second). I’ll indict my lack of foresight or a poor realtor who didn’t encourage it. It’s amazing how quickly kids grow. But it did get us in town lined up for great schools, walking distance to commuting and the street didn’t seem like an issue vs. the large city we moved from.
neverpanic wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:37 pm It's a no-brainer. Where you're living does not match the vision you have for your family. You want to move, you've already identified the neighborhood you would rather be in, and you've determined that you can afford it. At that price, I'm assuming the new place is going to have good/excellent schools.

I'm presumably older than you, but as I look back, I can see so many chances where I should have done something to enhance my quality of life or that of my family and I decided not to because of some arbitrary set of guidelines whose function was to put a ceiling on my enjoyment of life.

Buy the house with the big backyard. And if you're building a pool, put it in while the kids are young enough to enjoy it.
I read your post aloud to my wife and it brought a tear to her eye. Thank you for your perspective!
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Annabel Lee
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Annabel Lee »

corysold wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:41 pm As someone who faced a similar, though not identical decision, I can 1000% say moving to the house with the bigger yard and space for the kids to play was the right decision.

We did the "go to the park everytime the kids wanted to be outside" thing for a few years. Having a large yard where they can just "go play" has been worth it completely.
Thanks! This is what we’re living now - makes the big yard sound even better.
veindoc
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by veindoc »

I would do it for the sense of community. Pre pandemic it was so nice to open the door and have my kids head out to the neighbors. Or be greeted at the door with a group of kids asking if my kids were home and wanted to play. Versus trying to align my schedule with that of another working parent to get the kids together. Setting up arbitrary times when the play had to end to pick them up and squeezing in as many errands as possible in that random time frame. Seeing kids ride their bikes in packs or kicking a ball around the yard makes me happy.
aristotelian
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by aristotelian »

Would not be worth it to me. I might pay 25% more to go from nice house to perfect house but not 70% more (plus transaction costs you never get back). I also would not make any long term decisions based on covid related space issues. The main deal breaker that could get me to move when it comes to kids is school district.
Last edited by aristotelian on Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
stan1
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by stan1 »

Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:55 pm walking distance to commuting
Right, so in Chicago, Boston, NYC suburbs, Philadelphia etc. this is pretty important for people who use rail transit and does often put you in an older and more heavily trafficked area since most of the stations have been there for 50-100 years at this point -- but no reason for you and your family to be there if you aren't making use of it (and don't think you will be in the future).
Tingting1013
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Tingting1013 »

Of course not, how many years of early retirement would you be giving up.
coachd50
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by coachd50 »

The hard part about a thread with a question such as this is that it looking for individuals to place value on something. When discussing a house and a move from purely qualitative perspectives, only the OP can place value. As a poster above put it "It wouldn't be worth it FOR THEM".

@Annabel Lee on you and your family can place value on something like this. Other perspectives may help you fine tune your valuation, but as far as qualitative analysis goes, I think you already made up your mind to move. Only you can decide if the new space is worth the cost to your family.
makingmistakes
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by makingmistakes »

Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:57 pm
corysold wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:41 pm As someone who faced a similar, though not identical decision, I can 1000% say moving to the house with the bigger yard and space for the kids to play was the right decision.

We did the "go to the park everytime the kids wanted to be outside" thing for a few years. Having a large yard where they can just "go play" has been worth it completely.
Thanks! This is what we’re living now - makes the big yard sound even better.
From my (limited) observations and experience, kids these days rarely play outside in the yard. Especially once they hit double digits.
Normchad
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Normchad »

One of the nice things about moving to a new construction neighborhood is that the social circles aren’t yet formed. So the adults are looking to make friends with the neighbors. And the kids are all looking for new friends as well. It sounds like that would be a benefit to you.

Neighborhoods seem to have a lifecycle all their own. When they’re new, lots of young families move in. So that would be good for you.

But if you bought in a neighborhood that was built 10 years ago, most of the original,owners are still there, but the kids are mostly older than yours. (There will be some younger siblings).

Then once the neighborhoods turn 20-30, a lot of original kids leave to go to college, the parents become empty nesters, and tend to move out.

Anyhow for you, I’d say sure, buy the new house.
KlangFool
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by KlangFool »

OP,

It is a 25K person town. And, you are moving into a neighborhood with 1M houses.

No, you should not buy this house. I would not like to live in this kind of neighborhood. It is too upper class and exclusive for me. I am too blue collar.


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Kenkat
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Kenkat »

We made a similar move when our oldest son was around two and it was the right choice for us. We were in a nice house but on a busy street. We seldom talked to neighbors or rarely saw kids outside playing. We moved to a small new construction neighborhood with a house on a dead end cul-de-sac with sidewalks right before son #2 was born. Since nearly everyone in the neighborhood was at the same stage in life, there were lots of kids to play with, a safe place to ride bikes, lots of families to socialize with, etc. We’ve now been in this house 22+ years and it still meets our needs and it is interesting to watch a few new families move in and see little kids in the neighborhood again.
Last edited by Kenkat on Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
an_asker
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by an_asker »

makingmistakes wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:40 pm
Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:57 pm
corysold wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:41 pm As someone who faced a similar, though not identical decision, I can 1000% say moving to the house with the bigger yard and space for the kids to play was the right decision.

We did the "go to the park everytime the kids wanted to be outside" thing for a few years. Having a large yard where they can just "go play" has been worth it completely.
Thanks! This is what we’re living now - makes the big yard sound even better.
From my (limited) observations and experience, kids these days rarely play outside in the yard. Especially once they hit double digits.
True. It is not a good idea to channelize your (lost?) childhood on kids. Most kids participate in organized sports.

All that said, I would for sure vote for the big backyard - if not for the kids, then for a dog :-)
coachd50
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by coachd50 »

Normchad wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:45 pm One of the nice things about moving to a new construction neighborhood is that the social circles aren’t yet formed. So the adults are looking to make friends with the neighbors. And the kids are all looking for new friends as well. It sounds like that would be a benefit to you.

Neighborhoods seem to have a lifecycle all their own. When they’re new, lots of young families move in. So that would be good for you.

But if you bought in a neighborhood that was built 10 years ago, most of the original,owners are still there, but the kids are mostly older than yours. (There will be some younger siblings).

Then once the neighborhoods turn 20-30, a lot of original kids leave to go to college, the parents become empty nesters, and tend to move out.

Anyhow for you, I’d say sure, buy the new house.
I echo this sentiment.
I maintain that one of the best things about my life (and that of my siblings) is that we lived in this type of situation. In a 4 house radius, there were 12 children who lived there for at least 12 years, all within 6 years of each other in age, and each child had at least one other child the same age.

Yes, there is less free play and more adult structured play today, but I believe some of that is due to fewer people living in the situation I just described, and more living without immediate playmates.
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by stoptothink »

an_asker wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:53 pm
makingmistakes wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:40 pm
Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:57 pm
corysold wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:41 pm As someone who faced a similar, though not identical decision, I can 1000% say moving to the house with the bigger yard and space for the kids to play was the right decision.

We did the "go to the park everytime the kids wanted to be outside" thing for a few years. Having a large yard where they can just "go play" has been worth it completely.
Thanks! This is what we’re living now - makes the big yard sound even better.
From my (limited) observations and experience, kids these days rarely play outside in the yard. Especially once they hit double digits.
True. It is not a good idea to channelize your (lost?) childhood on kids. Most kids participate in organized sports.

All that said, I would for sure vote for the big backyard - if not for the kids, then for a dog :-)
Never really understood the "big yard for the kids" either, kids almost never actually play in the yard (at least in my experience). We have young kids (8 and 5), and our front and backyards combined are not much bigger than a postage stamp combined. Zero issue with us because we are in walking distance of multiple parks, not on a super busy street, and there are tons of kids in the neighborhood; things that I would prioritize far more than a large yard (from the perspective of kids).
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by corysold »

makingmistakes wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:40 pm
Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:57 pm
corysold wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:41 pm As someone who faced a similar, though not identical decision, I can 1000% say moving to the house with the bigger yard and space for the kids to play was the right decision.

We did the "go to the park everytime the kids wanted to be outside" thing for a few years. Having a large yard where they can just "go play" has been worth it completely.
Thanks! This is what we’re living now - makes the big yard sound even better.
From my (limited) observations and experience, kids these days rarely play outside in the yard. Especially once they hit double digits.
The OP knows his his kids and whether they would enjoy the yard. I agree the number of kids who play outside seems diminished. But our kids are 13 down to 5 and they are outside for hours an end any chance they get. Entirely situation dependent.

As far as living in a million dollar neighborhood, who cares. If that is where the houses are that fit your needs, that’s where they are. Who cares if you are blue or white collar. We live in an “upper end” community, I work in HVAC and my wife is a teacher. We are surrounded by Drs, financiers, etc with high end cars and fancy vacations. I have zero urge to spend beyond our means for either. But I sure do live sitting by the fire on a summer evening listening to our kids play. If the rich folk and their kids who don’t play outside don’t like it, too bad. Makes my day and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
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Watty
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Watty »

Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:31 pm We’ve browsed a bit and found a new construction house on a quiet interior street in town, full of families like ours. It has a big, open yard, an office, a huge basement and would appear to solve the space issues we have here and give us amenities that we’re looking for. It’s also $1M vs. our current place (valued at $600k).

From a quality of life standpoint: would you pull the trigger on this?
Ignoring the finances I would especially if it is in a new subdivision of similar houses.

Sociologists have written about it but in a subdivision the first owners tend to bond more since they tend to be in more similar phases of life and tend to have kids that are about the same age. You can look it up but sociologist have written a lot about modern American subdivisions and there are documentaries on this. In the subdivision I am in now the last of the original owners dying off or moving out so we are getting a new wave of families with young kids who are moving in.

When I was a kid my parents bought a house that was in a new subdivision when I was a toddler and then we moved to a different house in a different new subdivision when I was in grades school. In both of the neighborhoods they made friends that they kept for the rest of their lives.

That was a generation or two ago though when it was real common for there to be a stay at home parent with several kids in most of the homes.

For a while when my son was in preschool or grade school was that my was a stay at home mom. One problem was that there were very few kids my sons age for him to play with because of the other kids in the neighborhood were in daycare or afterschool care because their parents were both working or they lived in a one parent household with a working parent. We ended up signing my son up for some organized activities just so that he would have other kids to play with.

Even if there are lots of kids who live in the neighborhood that you are thinking about moving to don't be disappointed if other kids are not around much on weekdays to play with your kids.
Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:31 pm We have two preschool-age kids and live on a relatively busy street (call it the Main Street of our 25k person town) in a nice older suburban home. The busy street attracts an older crowd and while our neighbors are ok, the street makes it hard for us to build a community here.
One risk of living on a busy street is that they may need to widen the street someday and they may require you to sell them part of your front yard.
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cchrissyy
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by cchrissyy »

if you can afford it and it improves your life i vote yes

it sounds like you are in the stage of life where small children need to be driven everywhere, and where parks are the main attraction, so i just want to suggest you think ahead to school age - what neighborhood is a shorter drive to school? is it walking distance? that would be lovely! think about activities they may decide to do, such as sports and lessons... what neighborhood will be more convenient for driving to those activities when they are young school age? what neighborhood can they walk independently once they are in older grades?

i do want to echo that in my experience raising kids there was no stage where they spent enough time in backyards to factor that into a housing decision
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Lexx
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Lexx »

I would consider the property tax implications of moving a much more expensive house.

Maybe find another similarly priced house that has a better layout?
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Golf maniac »

This is a financial board, I and no one on here can give you any advice without the numbers. Did you not give the numbers because you know people here would say no? Klang said no without the information, 😂 😂. I wish you the best of luck but the expertise here is financial.
anon3838
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by anon3838 »

I didn’t read the other responses...this may have already been mentioned.

I moved to a similar community when my children were toddlers. In my family’s case, we didn’t find solid relationships that endured the test of time as the children got older.

That being said, we spent many afternoons using the court as our personal playground and many of the other children would join in the fun.

By the time the kids all went to 5th grade (all of the kids were nearly the exact same age), this play time reduced dramatically. Now that my kids are in middle school, there’s NO playtime on the court like the old days.

I guess I would sum it up with the perspective that those years of being surrounded by families “just like us” will change dramatically in a relatively short period of time and none of the parent <> parent friendships grew to anything more than casual acquaintances. Of course, the parental friendships will be very individual and impossible to predict.

Good luck and enjoy these fleeting years of goodness.
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by goodenyou »

KlangFool wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:51 pm OP,

It is a 25K person town. And, you are moving into a neighborhood with 1M houses.

No, you should not buy this house. I would not like to live in this kind of neighborhood. It is too upper class and exclusive for me. I am too blue collar.


KlangFool
This. We built a big house in a small town 20 years ago where there are few buyers in our price point. We are preparing to sell the house and will likely do so at a loss because we want to move out of the area. Thankfully, it is a very small fraction of our net worth and we resigned ourselves to living in the house as a lifestyle choice and cost of consumption. If you are unlikely to be able to sell the house in the future and are prepared to take a loss because it won’t matter, then go for it. If the loss is likely and will be a substantial part of your projected future net worth, I would not do it.
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by h82goslw »

makingmistakes wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:40 pm
Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:57 pm
corysold wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:41 pm As someone who faced a similar, though not identical decision, I can 1000% say moving to the house with the bigger yard and space for the kids to play was the right decision.

We did the "go to the park everytime the kids wanted to be outside" thing for a few years. Having a large yard where they can just "go play" has been worth it completely.
Thanks! This is what we’re living now - makes the big yard sound even better.
From my (limited) observations and experience, kids these days rarely play outside in the yard. Especially once they hit double digits.
Based on my life experience, I’m going to disagree with makingmistakes post. Been in our new development (at the time) house for 18 years and it’s probably the single best decision we made. Initially I was hesitant as it was at the upper end of our budget but spouse talked me into it. 2 years later put in a pool. We were first house on the street and everyone who moved in after had young kids, at one point we had 25 kids on our street alone.
My kids would spend every waking hour swimming and playing with their friends. Wasn’t until mid teens that backyard use waned (about the time driving came in to the picture). If you can afford it, go for the new house with the big yard.
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by MAandMEMom »

Growing up in a massive subdivision in the 70s was the best thing ever! I always had one or two or twenty kids with which to play. Fast forward, we did select a subdivision and a lot on a cul-de-sac. Because the houses might have been considered not starter homes, there was a mix of families, and some with older children. My kids are late-teen and the cycle is starting again. A family just moved in next door and the "stay inside rule" definitely does NOT apply to them. These kids are outside all the time!

I would say it could be the best thing you could ever do for your children.
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by afan »

The only reason not to make the move would be if you could not afford the new house, or it would too greatly limit your savings. Otherwise, sounds like a win for all other considerations.
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JoeRetire
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by JoeRetire »

Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:31 pmFrom a quality of life standpoint: would you pull the trigger on this?
Of course. And obviously from that single standpoint you would too, based on what you wrote. You have presented only the negatives of your current home and only the positives of this potential home. There's absolutely no quality of life issue presented that would stop you.

Maybe you can consider the positive quality of life issues of your current home and the negative quality of life issues of the new home.
Maybe phrased differently: presuming you could afford the difference in PITI, and could see yourself staying in this location for a long period of time, are the advantages of the new place commensurate with the increased expense, and would you do this to reap the benefits?
That is quite a different question. And it depends on a large number of factors you haven't mentioned at all.
So I guess the answer is: Maybe. Just because you can afford it, doesn't mean it fits in with your long-term financial goals.

I have some friends that made themselves house poor purchasing a house for quality of life reasons that they could afford, until something changed and then they could no longer afford it. It was a great house. It didn't end well.
Last edited by JoeRetire on Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Goal33
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Goal33 »

So hard to answer.

When we were looking, I could afford a 1.5 million dollar house... we set a budget for 1.3 million. Ended up spending 975k

So, if I saw a house for 1.1 that better met our needs, we would have done that.

If your situation is the same where you can basically afford whatever you want, within reason. Then yes, do it.
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by aristotelian »

MAandMEMom wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:56 pm
I would say it could be the best thing you could ever do for your children.
Education, travel and other life experiences, less time working and more time parenting... I could imagine lots of uses for the money that could benefit the kids as much or more than a big house.
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Annabel Lee
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Annabel Lee »

To answer a few questions: new house on an established street. Not the biggest house on the block, not the smallest either. Steady demand at this price point. We have friends a half-block up who report the street is teeming with kids our age engaging in unstructured play.

My kids love to be outside. This matches the vision we have for them. For as long as possible, we’d like to avoid them being screen zombies. Our yard today isn’t huge and they play out there for hours.

My schedule is balanced. It’s not like I’d force myself to work differently (or more) if we got this house.

All that said, we don’t take the decision lightly. I love the advice “don’t fall in love with one house, fall in love with 3” so we can be objective with our decision. And we’re early to what may be a market with a lot of choice this year.
Tingting1013 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:17 pm Of course not, how many years of early retirement would you be giving up.
This one punched me in the gut. The answer is not zero. 2?

TBH I’m paranoid that I have co-workers on this site which is why I’m reticent to run through financial details. To summarize, we’ve run the numbers and with the new place, we’d still able to invest in excess of $100k annually after payments, taxes etc. for the foreseeable future. $1.2M would probably be the max I’d spend now.

While I’d like to retire early and am on a trajectory to do so, I’m good working until 48 (vs. 46) if we can achieve what we want from a QOL perspective.
H-Town
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by H-Town »

There will always be houses that you want. You will always find justifications when you come across a house that you like.

You gotta spend money somewhere. But know that house poor is one of the main reasons why many Americans got stuck in a rat race. Regardless of high income or low income, if you buy more house than you can afford, you can say goodbye to early FI.

I'd take the kids to the parks, trails, lakes, etc. If I wanted to buy a house that have everything I want my kids to have, I'd buy a couple of National Parks. You have a lot of options here. Not either or. And not about buying a $1.2M house either.
Time is the ultimate currency.
lazynovice
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by lazynovice »

We made a move in the kids’ early elementary ages (at lower prices but maybe not inflation adjusted) and our kids 50/50 could not stand the kids in the new neighborhood. But made lifelong friends with the rest. For us, it was a great decision, even if not exactly what we expected.
harrychan
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by harrychan »

Hard no. My DW and I were driving in the neighborhood and pulled up at a stop sign next to a house we saw when we were shopping 10 years ago. She said she was glad we don't live next to a stop side as there will be a lot of cars stopping and looking into the home. Trust me when I saw this, you can remodel your home but you can't remodel the location. Buy the more quiet neighborhood-friendly property.
This is not legal or certified financial advice but you know that already.
presto987
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by presto987 »

Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:35 pm To answer a few questions: new house on an established street. Not the biggest house on the block, not the smallest either. Steady demand at this price point. We have friends a half-block up who report the street is teeming with kids our age engaging in unstructured play.

My kids love to be outside. This matches the vision we have for them. For as long as possible, we’d like to avoid them being screen zombies. Our yard today isn’t huge and they play out there for hours.

My schedule is balanced. It’s not like I’d force myself to work differently (or more) if we got this house.

All that said, we don’t take the decision lightly. I love the advice “don’t fall in love with one house, fall in love with 3” so we can be objective with our decision. And we’re early to what may be a market with a lot of choice this year.
Tingting1013 wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:17 pm Of course not, how many years of early retirement would you be giving up.
This one punched me in the gut. The answer is not zero. 2?

TBH I’m paranoid that I have co-workers on this site which is why I’m reticent to run through financial details. To summarize, we’ve run the numbers and with the new place, we’d still able to invest in excess of $100k annually after payments, taxes etc. for the foreseeable future. $1.2M would probably be the max I’d spend now.

While I’d like to retire early and am on a trajectory to do so, I’m good working until 48 (vs. 46) if we can achieve what we want from a QOL perspective.
Based on YOUR values, moving to a new house is a no-brainer. The only question is whether you should buy the one you've found or hold out for other options. But if you love the one you've found, then go for it.

When you have young kids, the ability to have outside space and a street teeming with similarly-aged kids is PRICELESS!

I have a similar situation and live in a place with outside space, walkable to a small playground, and lots of other kids around. When we moved here, we had also considered another place on a busier street that would not have had these features. We are so thankful that we wound up where we did and not at the other place. It has made a huge difference.

I think the people who are saying "don't do it" have different goals and values from you.
alfaspider
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by alfaspider »

makingmistakes wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:40 pm
Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:57 pm
corysold wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:41 pm As someone who faced a similar, though not identical decision, I can 1000% say moving to the house with the bigger yard and space for the kids to play was the right decision.

We did the "go to the park everytime the kids wanted to be outside" thing for a few years. Having a large yard where they can just "go play" has been worth it completely.
Thanks! This is what we’re living now - makes the big yard sound even better.
From my (limited) observations and experience, kids these days rarely play outside in the yard. Especially once they hit double digits.
This is hardly universally true. We recently made a similar decision (and similar real estate price jump). Having a yard was a huge quality of life upgrade for small kids.
Perhaps older kids retreat indoors, but our toddler and preschool age child spend lots of time in the yard (and playing on the playground we put in for them with the space). It's also a huge safety upgrade. The relatively busy street we lived on before caused a lot of anxiety that a kid would run out in the street. The cul de sac we live on now is much more peaceful.

Our old house had a nearby park, but that still requires a parent to go with their undivided attention. With the yard, parents can cook or visit with friends on the back porch while the children play.

If it's not a huge financial strain, I would absolutely go for it. For us, the new house sounded like a big expense (and it was), but at the end of the day it barely budged our net worth trajectory and plans for early FI.
Phillies2008
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by Phillies2008 »

Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:31 pm We have two preschool-age kids and live on a relatively busy street (call it the Main Street of our 25k person town)
Move.
alfaspider
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by alfaspider »

KlangFool wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:51 pm OP,

It is a 25K person town. And, you are moving into a neighborhood with 1M houses.

No, you should not buy this house. I would not like to live in this kind of neighborhood. It is too upper class and exclusive for me. I am too blue collar.


KlangFool
With respect, the OP is asking whether they should buy the house, not you. If the OP had similar cultural concerns, I imagine they would have been mentioned.
KlangFool
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by KlangFool »

alfaspider wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:13 pm
KlangFool wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:51 pm OP,

It is a 25K person town. And, you are moving into a neighborhood with 1M houses.

No, you should not buy this house. I would not like to live in this kind of neighborhood. It is too upper class and exclusive for me. I am too blue collar.


KlangFool
With respect, the OP is asking whether they should buy the house, not you. If the OP had similar cultural concerns, I imagine they would have been mentioned.
alfaspider,

OP asked for our opinion, I gave mine. You could give yours too.

As per OP's original post.

<<From a quality of life standpoint: would you pull the trigger on this?>>


KlangFool
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humblecoder
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by humblecoder »

I am going to be blunt. Why are you asking this question?

From your description, it sounds like the new house checks all of our boxes that your current house doesn't. You also said that you want qualitative input rather than "can I afford it" input. So of course a house that meets your needs is better than a house that doesn't meet your needs. That's a non-brainer. So why ask the question?

Reading between the lines, you must have some doubt about something which caused you to post this question to random strangers on the Internet. What is that doubt? If you truly want valuable and actionable feedback, you need to be more explicit with your question and/or what doubt is causing you to look for confirmation about this decision.

Sorry if I am coming off as a jerk. Think of it as "tough love". :D
humblecoder
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by humblecoder »

PS: For me personally, I would move to a lower cost of living area where a less expensive house meets my needs. In fact, that's exactly what my family and I did. For less than $500K, we have a house that meets our needs that is on par with a $1M house in the high cost of living area that we moved from. I realize that this might not be practical for you, but you asked for opinions. That's mine!
H-Town
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by H-Town »

humblecoder wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:39 pm PS: For me personally, I would move to a lower cost of living area where a less expensive house meets my needs. In fact, that's exactly what my family and I did. For less than $500K, we have a house that meets our needs that is on par with a $1M house in the high cost of living area that we moved from. I realize that this might not be practical for you, but you asked for opinions. That's mine!
+1

With 500k, OP can buy a McMansion in major metro cities in Texas. It could come with a pool and a yard much bigger than OP would need.
Time is the ultimate currency.
WienerG
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by WienerG »

humblecoder wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:35 pm I am going to be blunt. Why are you asking this question?

From your description, it sounds like the new house checks all of our boxes that your current house doesn't. You also said that you want qualitative input rather than "can I afford it" input. So of course a house that meets your needs is better than a house that doesn't meet your needs. That's a non-brainer. So why ask the question?

Reading between the lines, you must have some doubt about something which caused you to post this question to random strangers on the Internet. What is that doubt? If you truly want valuable and actionable feedback, you need to be more explicit with your question and/or what doubt is causing you to look for confirmation about this decision.

Sorry if I am coming off as a jerk. Think of it as "tough love". :D
Humblecoder,

This is an excellent and relevant question - I thought the same...

WienerG
MathIsMyWayr
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Location: CA

Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:31 pm We have two preschool-age kids and live on a relatively busy street (call it the Main Street of our 25k person town) in a nice older suburban home. The busy street attracts an older crowd and while our neighbors are ok, the street makes it hard for us to build a community here. No nearby family as I relocated here for work, pre-pandemic.

The house has a smaller yard and the driveway isn’t ideal so there aren’t many places for my very active kids to play outside, especially as they start to outgrow the backyard. Parks are plentiful but all driving distance. Inside, there’s no master bathroom, no decent tub, limited storage and we’re starting to outgrow this place due to a business my wife has started that is growing... and due to me working from home in our bedroom. No real ability/room to renovate to add space.

We’ve browsed a bit and found a new construction house on a quiet interior street in town, full of families like ours. It has a big, open yard, an office, a huge basement and would appear to solve the space issues we have here and give us amenities that we’re looking for. It’s also $1M vs. our current place (valued at $600k).

From a quality of life standpoint: would you pull the trigger on this?

Maybe phrased differently: presuming you could afford the difference in PITI, and could see yourself staying in this location for a long period of time, are the advantages of the new place commensurate with the increased expense, and would you do this to reap the benefits?
I cannot think of a better reason to move if you can afford. Yes, it is a matter of a quality of life. No point counting a fat portfolio from saving the housing expense after kids are all grown up; kids will grow up in no time.
alfaspider
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by alfaspider »

H-Town wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:46 pm
humblecoder wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:39 pm PS: For me personally, I would move to a lower cost of living area where a less expensive house meets my needs. In fact, that's exactly what my family and I did. For less than $500K, we have a house that meets our needs that is on par with a $1M house in the high cost of living area that we moved from. I realize that this might not be practical for you, but you asked for opinions. That's mine!
+1

With 500k, OP can buy a McMansion in major metro cities in Texas. It could come with a pool and a yard much bigger than OP would need.
Most $500k McMansions in metro Texas are going to come with a mega commute unless you can work from home. Even then, a McMansion plus a large yard for $500k is actually getting harder. The trend is the McMansion on a postage stamp yard in that price bracket. $500k will get you a townhouse or bungalow in central Dallas or Houston. Won't even get you that in Austin except in a less desirable area.
phinanciallyfit
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by phinanciallyfit »

Well, no, I would not. But that is because I cannot see myself ever buying a million dollar home. We could probably afford a home twice what we paid for ours, but neither my partner nor I are willing to spend it. There are so many other things that I value and would prefer to spend my money on. But, you should decide what to do based on your values, not mine.

We have 2 kids (2 and 6) and a dog, so I can appreciate your concerns. I agree that your current house doesn't seem ideal. I would look for a less expensive house with a fenced yard so kids can play outside with minimal supervision. Having a functional backyard with young kids is extremely valuable!
H-Town
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by H-Town »

alfaspider wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:57 pm
H-Town wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:46 pm
humblecoder wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:39 pm PS: For me personally, I would move to a lower cost of living area where a less expensive house meets my needs. In fact, that's exactly what my family and I did. For less than $500K, we have a house that meets our needs that is on par with a $1M house in the high cost of living area that we moved from. I realize that this might not be practical for you, but you asked for opinions. That's mine!
+1

With 500k, OP can buy a McMansion in major metro cities in Texas. It could come with a pool and a yard much bigger than OP would need.
Most $500k McMansions in metro Texas are going to come with a mega commute unless you can work from home. Even then, a McMansion plus a large yard for $500k is actually getting harder. The trend is the McMansion on a postage stamp yard in that price bracket. $500k will get you a townhouse or bungalow in central Dallas or Houston. Won't even get you that in Austin except in a less desirable area.
I think OP likes to have bigger yard, so he/she should look outside central Dallas or Houston. You can't have your cake and eat it too, unless you can afford mansions in River Oaks area.

$500k can go a long way in metro Houston or Dallas area.

Austin is weird... I'll visit and do outdoor stuff, but I don't want to live there.
Time is the ultimate currency.
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

alfaspider wrote: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:05 pm Perhaps older kids retreat indoors, but our toddler and preschool age child spend lots of time in the yard (and playing on the playground we put in for them with the space). It's also a huge safety upgrade. The relatively busy street we lived on before caused a lot of anxiety that a kid would run out in the street. The cul de sac we live on now is much more peaceful.
A cul de sac is not a playground, but still a public road for traffic. Some parents get mixed up.
phinanciallyfit
Posts: 365
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Re: Should we buy this house? (Not can we afford this house)

Post by phinanciallyfit »

corysold wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:24 pm
makingmistakes wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 1:40 pm
Annabel Lee wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:57 pm
corysold wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:41 pm As someone who faced a similar, though not identical decision, I can 1000% say moving to the house with the bigger yard and space for the kids to play was the right decision.

We did the "go to the park everytime the kids wanted to be outside" thing for a few years. Having a large yard where they can just "go play" has been worth it completely.
Thanks! This is what we’re living now - makes the big yard sound even better.
From my (limited) observations and experience, kids these days rarely play outside in the yard. Especially once they hit double digits.
The OP knows his his kids and whether they would enjoy the yard. I agree the number of kids who play outside seems diminished. But our kids are 13 down to 5 and they are outside for hours an end any chance they get. Entirely situation dependent.

As far as living in a million dollar neighborhood, who cares. If that is where the houses are that fit your needs, that’s where they are. Who cares if you are blue or white collar. We live in an “upper end” community, I work in HVAC and my wife is a teacher. We are surrounded by Drs, financiers, etc with high end cars and fancy vacations. I have zero urge to spend beyond our means for either. But I sure do live sitting by the fire on a summer evening listening to our kids play. If the rich folk and their kids who don’t play outside don’t like it, too bad. Makes my day and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.
I think it comes down to family values. Some families value more time outside and encourage this and others don't care about it and the kids do other things. My kids and my niece and nephew (ages range from 2-12) are outside constantly... even more so now with remote learning. Whenever they have a break during the day, they go outside. The 2 year needs supervision still, but she gets herself dressed and go out the doggy door to force the rest of us outside! Our yard is not huge, but good enough for climbing on things and running around a bit.
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