Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

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celia
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by celia »

Elsebet wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:11 pm I don't get emotional about my own death. I do worry about my husband's ability to manage everything that I do if I should die first.
+1
Even food shopping or preparing a meal doesn’t happen easily. I fear all meals will become take-outs if I die first.


OP, Your DeathBook isn’t just for your spouse (who could die before you). It should be basic info like where your assets are, your investing philosophy, and a to-do list. It doesn’t need to include a love letter. That can be shared today!

And if you DON’T have life insurance any more, make a note of that so the executor doesn’t waste time looking for it.

And I think it’s important to share the “deathbook” now. Ask someone to read it and have them ask questions. Besides answering verbally, add that information to the book.
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ApeAttack
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by ApeAttack »

celia wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:26 pm OP, Your DeathBook isn’t just for your spouse (who could die before you). It should be basic info like where your assets are, your investing philosophy, and a to-do list. It doesn’t need to include a love letter. That can be shared today!
Yup, it contains an overview of assets and accounts, the current investment philosophy (and ways to simplify it, such as moving to a target date fund), and a list of high-priority and lower-priority tasks that need to be completed.
celia wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:26 pm And if you DON’T have life insurance any more, make a note of that so the executor doesn’t waste time looking for it.
I plan on updating the document annually or when major changes occur, such as stopping life insurance.
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skipper
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by skipper »

celia wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:26 pm
Elsebet wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:11 pm I don't get emotional about my own death. I do worry about my husband's ability to manage everything that I do if I should die first.
+1
Even food shopping or preparing a meal doesn’t happen easily. I fear all meals will become take-outs if I die first.


OP, Your DeathBook isn’t just for your spouse (who could die before you). It should be basic info like where your assets are, your investing philosophy, and a to-do list. It doesn’t need to include a love letter. That can be shared today!

And if you DON’T have life insurance any more, make a note of that so the executor doesn’t waste time looking for it.

And I think it’s important to share the “deathbook” now. Ask someone to read it and have them ask questions. Besides answering verbally, add that information to the book.
+100 excellent post! I agree; share the love now while living so there will be good memories after - if it comes to that. Separate emotion from the "business of dying" HAHA, which is what this is. I wouldn't put any of that in your BBOD. Make it the great roadmap it should be and your loved ones won't need to read any post-mushy stuff; the evidence of your love and care will speak for itself in the work you did.
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csh
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by csh »

I'm surprised no one mentioned this post viewtopic.php?t=119346
It's bit more up to date than Taylor's list.
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FIREchief
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by FIREchief »

celia wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:26 pm And if you DON’T have life insurance any more, make a note of that so the executor doesn’t waste time looking for it.
This is an excellent point, and it extends beyond life insurance. I have a section that lists several things I used to have, but have been terminated.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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Padlin
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by Padlin »

I first did the List when I retired 7 years ago, but mostly for the kids. Deb and I travel a good deal in the camper, months at a time. Wanted the kids to have all the info in case something happens to us. Deb has a copy too. It's just a list of all the pertinent info as well as what we would like done with us if the situation were to materialize, no emotions involved.
Regards | Bob
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by trueblueky »

For any feds or retired feds, NARFE has a free fill-in-the-blanks workbook "Be prepared for life events" on this. The booklet also contains a sample of the notification letter to OPM and contact info.
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celia
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by celia »

FIREchief wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:37 pm
celia wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:26 pm And if you DON’T have life insurance any more, make a note of that so the executor doesn’t waste time looking for it.
This is an excellent point, and it extends beyond life insurance. I have a section that lists several things I used to have, but have been terminated.
Can you give us some examples?

mortgage?
out of area real estate you used to own?
physical gold?
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FIREchief
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by FIREchief »

celia wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:46 pm
FIREchief wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:37 pm
celia wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:26 pm And if you DON’T have life insurance any more, make a note of that so the executor doesn’t waste time looking for it.
This is an excellent point, and it extends beyond life insurance. I have a section that lists several things I used to have, but have been terminated.
Can you give us some examples?

mortgage?
out of area real estate you used to own?
physical gold?
Paper savings bonds
401k plans that have been emptied via rollover
Pensions that have disbursed lump sums
Cancelled annuities
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
RudyS
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by RudyS »

DW and I are 80/84, we are gonna go sometime so this isn't an emotional situation for us. No love notes, just financial and practical issues in my "Final Instructions" . DW has read it to make sure what I said was clear and complete. Contains info as described in some previous posts about all our finances and other subjects. She had one good idea, namely to put in front a checklist of what needs to be done right away (like funeral arrangements). The details are in the body of the document. It is intended to provide guidance to DW as well as our kids.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by Lookingforanswers »

No, doing my own "death book" was not at all emotional. I have been the executor of three estates now and it has made me more and more focused on getting the small details right. There is no one task in managing the estate of a deceased person that is particularly difficult, but the pile of things that have to be done can be a little overwhelming (filling out forms, notarized signatures, missing paperwork, etc.).

A few things to mention if they aren't covered elsewhere:

1. If anyone in your family has ever owned mineral rights to a property that's a whole other thing to keep track of. Especially if there is no active production; the family might have forgotten who had the paperwork or pays the taxes. Tracking it down is hard.
2. I can't stress how important it is to have passwords, mobile phone access, access to emails, etc. Especially today when so many sites have two-factor authentication; your life as an executive will be much simpler if you have access to the deceased's passwords AND email account AND can unlock the mobile phone to authenticate log-ins.
Last edited by Lookingforanswers on Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FIREchief
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by FIREchief »

Lookingforanswers wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:15 pm 2. I can't stress how important it is to have passwords, mobile phone access, access to emails, etc. Especially today when so many sites have two-factor authentication; your life as an executive will be much simpler if you have access to the deceased's passwords AND email account AND can unlock the mobile phone to authenticate log-ins.
Once the court issues letters of appointment, can't you establish your own login credentials for all accounts owned by the estate?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
RudyS
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by RudyS »

FIREchief wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:26 pm
Lookingforanswers wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:15 pm 2. I can't stress how important it is to have passwords, mobile phone access, access to emails, etc. Especially today when so many sites have two-factor authentication; your life as an executive will be much simpler if you have access to the deceased's passwords AND email account AND can unlock the mobile phone to authenticate log-ins.
Once the court issues letters of appointment, can't you establish your own login credentials for all accounts owned by the estate?
I believe that's right, but in addition to the major accounts like banks, brokerage, etc., there are (in my case) myriads of odd accounts like email, instacart, netflix, amazon, and the like which are perhaps easier dealt with without the letters of appointment.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by 7eight9 »

In addition to creating a death package one might think about death cleaning.

I am in the process of death cleaning, or, as we call it in Swedish, döstädning.
Dö is “death” and städning is “cleaning.” In Swedish it is a term that means that you remove unnecessary things and make your home nice and orderly when you think the time is coming closer for you to leave the planet. This is something that we will all have to face sooner or later. We really must if we want to save precious time for our loved ones after we are gone.

https://time.com/5063275/death-cleaning/
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by FIREchief »

RudyS wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:32 pm
FIREchief wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:26 pm
Lookingforanswers wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:15 pm 2. I can't stress how important it is to have passwords, mobile phone access, access to emails, etc. Especially today when so many sites have two-factor authentication; your life as an executive will be much simpler if you have access to the deceased's passwords AND email account AND can unlock the mobile phone to authenticate log-ins.
Once the court issues letters of appointment, can't you establish your own login credentials for all accounts owned by the estate?
I believe that's right, but in addition to the major accounts like banks, brokerage, etc., there are (in my case) myriads of odd accounts like email, instacart, netflix, amazon, and the like which are perhaps easier dealt with without the letters of appointment.
Yep, I agree. I was focused on financial accounts. 8-)
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FIREchief
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by FIREchief »

7eight9 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:12 pm In addition to creating a death package one might think about death cleaning.

I am in the process of death cleaning, or, as we call it in Swedish, döstädning.
Dö is “death” and städning is “cleaning.” In Swedish it is a term that means that you remove unnecessary things and make your home nice and orderly when you think the time is coming closer for you to leave the planet. This is something that we will all have to face sooner or later. We really must if we want to save precious time for our loved ones after we are gone.

https://time.com/5063275/death-cleaning/

That is fantastic. We started this over two years ago, but it is an ongoing journey. Our stuff could be liquidated in about a week at this point.
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wander
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by wander »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:10 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:54 pm I don't want to die, but I also appreciate every day I wake up on the green side of the grass.

I have lived to see my daughters graduate from college, launch into great careers, get married, and bear our four wonderful grandchildren.
There was a time when I didn’t think I’d see the younger ones graduate from high school. They’re well past that now and one has launched incredibly.

Given that Tesla is always good for a post on BH, here’s a true story. I was getting cardiac stents placed some years ago, having placed a deposit on a Tesla Model X. Delivery of my X was imminent (inside joke for those who follow Elon Musk). As I lay on the table, I told the earnest young doctor that I didn’t believe in an afterlife, but if I didn’t get up off the table and live long enough to drive my X, I’d find a way to come back and haunt him. I’ve had my X for 5 years now. :D

I have a death letter, but I really should write some additional letters to cover some of the emotional topics for each particular family member.
That sounds funny in a situation like that (kind of odd moment to miss a car). On the other thought, I may try a Tesla somedays. :D
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by TomatoTomahto »

wander wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:50 pm That sounds funny in a situation like that (kind of odd moment to miss a car). On the other thought, I may try a Tesla somedays.
I don’t remember the precise amount of deposit (nowadays it’s $100), but I had deposited a couple thousand 2.5 years earlier, never having driven a Tesla, and the delivery was always “soon.” I like Elon Musk, but his delivery dates are always laughably optimistic.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by hudson »

ApeAttack wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:23 pm I became choked up and my eyes started welling up. I was wondering if others had a similar experience.
viewtopic.php?t=198919
I do not. I did not go into detail at all with my "death package." I wouldn't even call it that. I just got an attorney to do the appropriate documents. I had them checked/approved by a long time trust officer. I made sure that the documents and my preferences can be accessed as needed. Now that that is done, I feel comfortable rather than sad.

According to my trust officer friend, the people that get emotional are the heirs of the people who screwed up their do-it-yourself wills or who did not have a will.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by Jogger »

My uncle bought a headstone and specified an extra deep footing, for extra money I'm sure, to avoid frost heave. He was there when it was being planted, and the guy had no knowledge of this. Uncle made him stop until he did it right. He is a retired farmer.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by JackoC »

Not 'emotional' like weeping or something, and nothing at all when just updating the letter in the emergency bag every so often. That might also be necessary if I were temporarily disabled, in jail somewhere or who knows what else other than dead :happy The account lists etc. are updated all the time and I don't view those as having to do with death. However I spent a good deal of time last year considering the details of, then carrying out, a new estate planning arrangement. I did find it depressing to dwell on that topic for that long, was glad to be done with it.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by neverpanic »

Lookingforanswers wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 3:15 pm No, doing my own "death book" was not at all emotional. I have been the executor of three estates now and it has made me more and more focused on getting the small details right. There is no one task in managing the estate of a deceased person that is particularly difficult, but the pile of things that have to be done can be a little overwhelming (filling out forms, notarized signatures, missing paperwork, etc.).

A few things to mention if they aren't covered elsewhere:

1. If anyone in your family has ever owned mineral rights to a property that's a whole other thing to keep track of. Especially if there is no active production; the family might have forgotten who had the paperwork or pays the taxes. Tracking it down is hard.
2. I can't stress how important it is to have passwords, mobile phone access, access to emails, etc. Especially today when so many sites have two-factor authentication; your life as an executive will be much simpler if you have access to the deceased's passwords AND email account AND can unlock the mobile phone to authenticate log-ins.
They can have my social media and investment-related email, but all my personal emails will go with me.

I completely agree about mineral rights and farm leases. Easements should be documented and hunting agreements should be updated.

I first began writing mine in my early 30s when I had a young child. After the divorce, I was not confident about having my former spouse administrating anything and my primary concern was making sure our child was provided for through college. I've updated the same instruction set every year or so since.
I am not a financial professional or guru. I'm a schmuck who got lucky 10 times. Such is the life of the trader.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by ApeAttack »

csh wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:27 pm I'm surprised no one mentioned this post viewtopic.php?t=119346
It's bit more up to date than Taylor's list.
I will add it to the original message. Thanks!
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by ApeAttack »

7eight9 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 8:12 pm In addition to creating a death package one might think about death cleaning.

I am in the process of death cleaning, or, as we call it in Swedish, döstädning.
Dö is “death” and städning is “cleaning.” In Swedish it is a term that means that you remove unnecessary things and make your home nice and orderly when you think the time is coming closer for you to leave the planet. This is something that we will all have to face sooner or later. We really must if we want to save precious time for our loved ones after we are gone.

https://time.com/5063275/death-cleaning/
My grandmother did the opposite. She grew up during The Great Depression and was a hoarder. It took my mom a very long time to clean out that home when my grandmother got too old to take care of herself.
May all your index funds gain +0.5% today.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by cheese_breath »

Sorry, but I didn't get emotional.

Not on the first one I did for DW to take care of herself if I passed on first, and the subsequent revisions.

Not on the second one I did for DW's daughter to take care of her if I passed on first, and the subsequent revisions. This one was different from the first because the investment objective changed from portfolio growth to conservation of principal to pay her medical expenses.

Not on the one I'm wrapping up now for the children to take care of me since DW has now passed on.

I consider them all as just another part of estate planning.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

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ApeAttack wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:24 pm ... My grandmother did the opposite. She grew up during The Great Depression and was a hoarder. It took my mom a very long time to clean out that home when my grandmother got too old to take care of herself.
Ditto for DW's mother. DW's brother and I cleaned out her apartment when she died. Some things went to the Salvation Army, but a lot went into dumpsters because the SA wouldn't accept them. She had garbage bags with all kinds of papers throughout the apartment... every check she ever wrote since the 1960s, utility bills beginning about the same time, old supermarket receipts. One bathroom was filled almost to the ceiling with them. I did her final tax return, and I admit she had everything I needed. But it took me weeks to sort through all the garbage bags to find it. When I was done I had it all reduced to one box.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by hudson »

ApeAttack wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:24 pm My grandmother did the opposite. She grew up during The Great Depression and was a hoarder. It took my mom a very long time to clean out that home when my grandmother got too old to take care of herself.
My parents grew up during the G. Depression. My grandparents were adults. I heard their stories, and, I was coached to be ready. "Save your money; waste not want not!" None were hoarders. When my grandfather passed away, he did not have any bank accounts. He did have a safe deposit box....full of cash....which was promptly deposited into a new account at that bank. His final affairs were not a problem. I walked by when my grandmother was talking to her children about her future retirement. I saw a huge stack of savings bonds in front of her. I speculate that she got one or more every pay day...for years.

Depression folks were different....all were savers. When talking about their future estates, they were all matter of fact...no emotion.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by elle »

Atilla wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:34 pm I have no real wishes for burial. I told her to cremate me and take her best friend to Las Vegas and dump my ashes in lake Bellagio. :beer
Great idea. Never saw a purpose or need for an expensive funeral and paying a ton of money for my body to sit somewhere with a fancy rock. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Lake Bellagio sounds much better!
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

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elle wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:42 pm
Atilla wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:34 pm I have no real wishes for burial. I told her to cremate me and take her best friend to Las Vegas and dump my ashes in lake Bellagio. :beer
Great idea. Never saw a purpose or need for an expensive funeral and paying a ton of money for my body to sit somewhere with a fancy rock. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Lake Bellagio sounds much better!
The only reason is for the family left behind. Sometimes they're OK with an inexpensive funeral, but sometimes they need more more for emotional closure. I spent a lot more on DW's funeral than ever thought I would, even after the $9K FEMA refund. But her children and grandchildren needed it. Their father / grandfather died the year before, and his wife did almost nothing for him. They were really hurt by it, and I wasn't going to do that to them again.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by cbeck »

That's an interesting question. I wouldn't say that I get emotional, but only that the task of preparing for one's own death necessarily infuses a sense of gravitas to what may have seemed at first as a mere exercise in documentation. I find it a welcome benefit. Contemplation of death has a generally salutary effect. The other emotion that I have is immense relief since without entirely realizing it I was worried that she would have a hard time managing the transition without me there.

What I have learned in the course of our as-yet not completed preparations is that the only way to assure a smooth and reliable transition is to make the transition now decades before I might reasonably expect it to be necessary. Instead of handling all the finances of our household myself as I have done for the past twenty years, we have decided that we will henceforth do every action together, which includes paying bills, entering transactions into Quicken, reconciling bank and brokerage accounts every month, making investment decisions, etc. To my surprise my wife has now started to ask questions about investing in which she has never previously shown any interest.

Practically speaking, our task is made vastly easier and more reliable by two tools: Quicken with our complete financial history going back more than twenty years and the 1Password password manager. These tools together mean that my wife is assured of having correct, complete, and up-to-the minute information with which she will soon be entirely familiar. I don't have to worry about maintaining lists of accounts or, god forbid, passwords up-to-date. And the sharing of passwords entirely through 1Password is completely safe. The procedural documents are stored both in a directory on my computer to which she has easy access and out in a shared cloud folder. Documents with sensitive information will be stored in our shared vault on 1Password.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by ApeAttack »

cbeck wrote: Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:27 am That's an interesting question. I wouldn't say that I get emotional, but only that the task of preparing for one's own death necessarily infuses a sense of gravitas to what may have seemed at first as a mere exercise in documentation. I find it a welcome benefit. Contemplation of death has a generally salutary effect. The other emotion that I have is immense relief since without entirely realizing it I was worried that she would have a hard time managing the transition without me there.
I made the first revision to my death package earlier this month. There was no emotion this time, but definitely felt relief for getting rid of a necessary task.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by ApeAttack »

cheese_breath wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 12:59 am
ApeAttack wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:24 pm ... My grandmother did the opposite. She grew up during The Great Depression and was a hoarder. It took my mom a very long time to clean out that home when my grandmother got too old to take care of herself.
Ditto for DW's mother. DW's brother and I cleaned out her apartment when she died. Some things went to the Salvation Army, but a lot went into dumpsters because the SA wouldn't accept them. She had garbage bags with all kinds of papers throughout the apartment... every check she ever wrote since the 1960s, utility bills beginning about the same time, old supermarket receipts. One bathroom was filled almost to the ceiling with them. I did her final tax return, and I admit she had everything I needed. But it took me weeks to sort through all the garbage bags to find it. When I was done I had it all reduced to one box.
My other grandmother was the bill and paperwork hoarder. I don't know if it was a Great Depression thing or an unrelated characteristic though.

Either way, it was a good lesson in minimizing hassles for my loved ones when I die.
May all your index funds gain +0.5% today.
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Re: Anyone else get emotional while creating their death package?

Post by RickBoglehead »

Creating a document containing passwords and emailing sit is a bad idea, even if it is password protected. Better to save it offline.
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