For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

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MyBrothersAdvisor
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For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by MyBrothersAdvisor »

Good morning! This is my first post, but I'm a long-time lurker. I'm working through my projections and always get hung up on how much to assume I'll spend annually once I'm done working. What does everybody spend annually in retired not including your mortgage. I always assume $30k in addition to my projected pension which should be about $60k. I'll have health insurance for me and my husband in retirement so that should save us a bit. And I've conservatively assumed we'll have $900k in our investments at age 55 when I retire. We're hoping to travel quite a bit and/or get a second home to enjoy when our kids have kids and pass down to them once we're gone.

I guess my main question is: Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement? OR, maybe you don't but you see some giant holes in my projections and how I'm hoping our retirement will play out. We've got a number of years (more than 15, but less than 20) to correct things if it isn't going to work. I'd love to get a jump on it now! :)
moximouse
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by moximouse »

I’m also curious. I expect to travel more in retirement, and that can add up quickly. I’m just concerned that by the time I hit retirement age my energy levels won’t allow for the volume of travel I’d like to do...
mptfan
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by mptfan »

MyBrothersAdvisor wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:14 am I guess my main question is: Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
That depends on what you mean by "significantly."
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Rick Ferri
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Rick Ferri »

Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
I speak with hundreds of retirees each year. Most are HNW individuals or couples. The median budget in retirement is about $70,000 - this includes travel but does not include income tax or gifts. Only about 10% of the retirees I speak with spend more than $100,000 per year, and that's usually because they have two homes or travel extensively.

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Monster99
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Monster99 »

70k to 85k after taxes - this year not as much as not traveling. Did play a significant amount of golf and a new driver and 3 wood purchase....
musicmom
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by musicmom »

We're only retired one year.
Our income was ~74K after taxes 2020. HCOL state but no debt, no mortgage, retiree health insurance.
Could comfortably take larger IRA distributions if needed.
Only spent 60K, probably due to lockdown.
delamer
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by delamer »

Making assumptions about what you’ll spend in retirement can get you in a lot of trouble.

Aside from any big lifestyle changes (like the travel or second home you mention), the best way to plan your retirement expenses is to get a firm grasp of your current expenses as you near retirement. Figure out what you spend on housing, transportation, food, charity, hobbies, clothing, etc. Add in income taxes and new expenditures (like travel), and subtract reductions (for example, less spending on transportation due to no commute to work) — then you’ll have a clearer idea of what your spend-rate will be.

And if you want good advice on whether there are “giant holes in my projections” we’d need a lot more detail than you’ve provided.
smitcat
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by smitcat »

Without income taxes our spending is pretty much what we expected/budgeted:
$60K per year covers all expenses to live comfortably but no extras
$120K per year is what we budget to do everything we want to do
Last edited by smitcat on Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
truenorth418
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by truenorth418 »

3% of year end portfolio value.

That means a different amount spent every year, as the portfolio value rises or falls (usually rises).

I am 57, and I have a small pension and SS awaiting me in a few years which I consider reinforcements in case the 3% plan doesn't work out so well.
59Gibson
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by 59Gibson »

FI but still work p/t. Spending ranges 57-62k/yr husband/wife no kids MCOL area
flyingaway
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by flyingaway »

Spending, before or after retirement, is very individual. You can spend more or less if you want. You can estimate a level based on your current spending, adjusted for some retirement specifics.

We are not retired, but financially independent (I think). We will be budgeting around $100,000 a year. No 2nd home, no mortgage, no pension, no grand kids yet, in a low cost of living area. About 40% of that is for travel and entertainment.

We can live with about $60,000 a year, and probably $30,000 if we downsize. Combined social security at 62 will (would) be about $40,000.
Seasonal
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Seasonal »

I'd think the best way to project spending is to look at what you're spending now and estimate how it would change. Likely you won't have new savings and taxes will be different. Are there things you expect to do when retired that you aren't doing now? You might search for things like "budget items" to see if there are categories of spending you're missing. Adjust for all of that. Add fudge factor for the unknown.

Other people may be in a very different cost of living area and may do vastly different things or spend vastly different amounts on the things you do.
Dun_Werking
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Dun_Werking »

I am retiring next month at age 55. As you can imagine, I've wrangled with this question for years. I live in HCOL area (CT) and own a boat. These facts tend to put me in the higher spend range. My "fat" number is $10k per month (net of taxes). I can easily trim 20-25% off of that if I needed to. Also, I have free retiree medical to age 65....so, only a few thousand out of pocket per year is in my budget. If you plan to do a lot of travel, make sure you get accurate budget numbers.

Honestly, my biggest concerns as I look forward are inflation and long term care.
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JDCarpenter
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by JDCarpenter »

Rick Ferri wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am
Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
I speak with hundreds of retirees each year. Most are HNW individuals or couples. The median budget in retirement is about $70,000 - this includes travel but does not include income tax or gifts. Only about 10% of the retirees I speak with spend more than $100,000 per year, and that's usually because they have two homes or travel extensively.

Rick Ferri
OP, Rick is the one with true knowledge here, given what he does. All the rest of us are anecdotal.

FWIW, we spend about twice as much in retirement than when we were working (excluding taxes, which were our biggest expense when working). Our nontravel expenses are just slightly more than the cutoff; travel will easily double that in most years. Although we slept in our own bed for 7 1/2 months in 2020, we strive for 6 months or less.

E.T.A.--of course, that depends on portfolio value. We also do fixed percentage withdrawal each year.
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lostinjersey
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by lostinjersey »

Rick - thank you for sharing your valuable insights. Much appreciated.
SQRT
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by SQRT »

MyBrothersAdvisor wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:14 am
I guess my main question is: Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
Yes, much more. Because our means allows it. Retired 14 years, 70 years old. Could get by on $90k if we had to but it would take significant effort at this point. Ended up with a lot more than we thought. Took a while, but not too long, to get our spending up. I think it’s better to err on the up side with your budget, within reason. Might be a little tight if you want a vacation property along with “extensive” travel. Maybe if you live in a LCOL location.

But spending is very personal. Really depends on you, so getting a good handle on your own current spending is key.
Last edited by SQRT on Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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HomerJ
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by HomerJ »

Seasonal wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:40 am I'd think the best way to project spending is to look at what you're spending now and estimate how it would change.
This.

if you plan to make big changes in retirement, it gets harder, but one can always make round number estimates.

Remember to look at SPENDING, not income. Don't say "Well, I make $80,000 a year now, so...."

You have to say "Well, I SPEND $4000 a month now on expenses, so..."
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flyingaway
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by flyingaway »

truenorth418 wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:30 am 3% of year end portfolio value.

That means a different amount spent every year, as the portfolio value rises or falls (usually rises).

I am 57, and I have a small pension and SS awaiting me in a few years which I consider reinforcements in case the 3% plan doesn't work out so well.
How do you balance spending with good and bad years?
59Gibson
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by 59Gibson »

HomerJ wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:24 pm
Seasonal wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:40 am I'd think the best way to project spending is to look at what you're spending now and estimate how it would change.
This.

if you plan to make big changes in retirement, it gets harder, but one can always make round number estimates.

Remember to look at SPENDING, not income. Don't say "Well, I make $80,000 a year now, so...."

You have to say "Well, I SPEND $4000 a month now on expenses, so..."
+1..none of this 70-80% of your income that financial advisors push.
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by OffGridder »

Rick Ferri wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am
Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
I speak with hundreds of retirees each year. Most are HNW individuals or couples. The median budget in retirement is about $70,000 - this includes travel but does not include income tax or gifts. Only about 10% of the retirees I speak with spend more than $100,000 per year, and that's usually because they have two homes or travel extensively.

Rick Ferri
Rick,

Thank you for your data point and perspective based on actual experience. At what minimum dollar level do you consider an individual or couple to be High Net Worth (HNW)! The last data I saw for Americans over age 65, was a median net worth of $266K and an average net worth of 1.2M.

Dave
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backpacker61
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by backpacker61 »

Still working, but I've estimated 59K$/yr.

No mortgage or second home, MCOL area.
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Dottie57 »

I spend 48k per year - 4k per month.

16k+ goes to health insurance. I pay for non ACA ins from former employer because of all challenges to ACA.

Before retirement when ins came from my paycheck, I spent between 32-35k.

In essence I spend less discretionary $ than I did while working.

Next year with medicare in first quarter, I will spend less on healthcare ins. Yea!
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by IMO »

delamer wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:26 am Making assumptions about what you’ll spend in retirement can get you in a lot of trouble.

Aside from any big lifestyle changes (like the travel or second home you mention), the best way to plan your retirement expenses is to get a firm grasp of your current expenses as you near retirement. Figure out what you spend on housing, transportation, food, charity, hobbies, clothing, etc. Add in income taxes and new expenditures (like travel), and subtract reductions (for example, less spending on transportation due to no commute to work) — then you’ll have a clearer idea of what your spend-rate will be.

And if you want good advice on whether there are “giant holes in my projections” we’d need a lot more detail than you’ve provided.
Agee. But I would add in hindsight I'd figure out your spending details long before retirement (and you mention having 15 years). The more data and trends in the data the better you will be able to plan as retirement approaches.

Many on this site (especially those with very high salaries) will often advocate that so long as you meet your savings goals then it is pointless to track expenses with any detail. I just don't feel the same. It is helpful to look at budget categories as time goes on and determine if/where any funds can/need to be shifted around, reduced, or even increased.

OP is considering a 2nd home in retirement, all the more important to know the details of one's current expenses.
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by obgraham »

Well all I can say is that back in the days when we were able to go on cruises, we came across LOTS of folks spending way more than 90-100k, even before the travel expenses.
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by JDCarpenter »

IMO wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:10 pm ... But I would add in hindsight I'd figure out your spending details long before retirement (and you mention having 15 years). The more data and trends in the data the better you will be able to plan as retirement approaches.

Many on this site (especially those with very high salaries) will often advocate that so long as you meet your savings goals then it is pointless to track expenses with any detail. I just don't feel the same. It is helpful to look at budget categories as time goes on and determine if/where any funds can/need to be shifted around, reduced, or even increased.

OP is considering a 2nd home in retirement, all the more important to know the details of one's current expenses.
Agree on the need to know what spending is your baseline. I'd tracked spending closely since early 90's. When retirement became more of a concern, we used quicken reports to parse out "kid related" spending, taxes, and "work related." Doing so demonstrated that any retirement spending analysis predicated on our incomes was laughable.
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mptfan
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by mptfan »

As a reference point, the average American household spent $63,036 in 2019.

(The BLS refers to "consumer units" which is essentially the same as a household)

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm
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Mlm
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Mlm »

For the past four years I have spent 25-30K per year. I could easily spend 60K with no worries so I must be doing something wrong.
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GerryL
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by GerryL »

OP,
As others have pointed out, understanding your own spending is more important than finding out what others spend. If you haven't already done so, start tracking your spending to create a history of your spending patterns.

I'd been using Quicken for about 20 years prior to retirement. In the 2-3 years leading up to retirement, I was able to understand what I would need at a basic level (minus work-related expenses) and then add in amounts for anticipated wants. As retirement gets closer, the numbers get more solid. You don't need to track every penny, but understanding how much you spend in each category -- and how that has changed over time -- will help you prepare for the future.

BTW I gave myself a starting spend target of $70k (with annual increases for inflation) not including income tax. My actual spend has been well below the target.
formerlybroke
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by formerlybroke »

Rick Ferri wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am
Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
I speak with hundreds of retirees each year. Most are HNW individuals or couples. The median budget in retirement is about $70,000 - this includes travel but does not include income tax or gifts. Only about 10% of the retirees I speak with spend more than $100,000 per year, and that's usually because they have two homes or travel extensively.

Rick Ferri
Appreciate your experience/data driven reply.

Just recently ran projections based on 2020 spend (60 y/o working very part time) and $180k is our number (includes taxes). That gives us 50x, so we can increase if we choose.
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by MathWizard »

Rick Ferri wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am
Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
I speak with hundreds of retirees each year. Most are HNW individuals or couples. The median budget in retirement is about $70,000 - this includes travel but does not include income tax or gifts. Only about 10% of the retirees I speak with spend more than $100,000 per year, and that's usually because they have two homes or travel extensively.

Rick Ferri
Rick,

Thanks for this datapoint.

Is the $70K total or after taxes and healthcare?
I assume that former, but just want to verify.
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Admiral »

MyBrothersAdvisor wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:14 am Good morning! This is my first post, but I'm a long-time lurker. I'm working through my projections and always get hung up on how much to assume I'll spend annually once I'm done working. What does everybody spend annually in retired not including your mortgage. I always assume $30k in addition to my projected pension which should be about $60k. I'll have health insurance for me and my husband in retirement so that should save us a bit. And I've conservatively assumed we'll have $900k in our investments at age 55 when I retire. We're hoping to travel quite a bit and/or get a second home to enjoy when our kids have kids and pass down to them once we're gone.

I guess my main question is: Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement? OR, maybe you don't but you see some giant holes in my projections and how I'm hoping our retirement will play out. We've got a number of years (more than 15, but less than 20) to correct things if it isn't going to work. I'd love to get a jump on it now! :)
There are retired posters here who have $20m, and others who have much less than $1m. So, what others may do (or plan to do) should have no bearing on your plan. 15 years out, it's difficult to estimate your retirement expenses, though it's not impossible. The things you can foresee and make guesstimates for are 1) pension and SS cashflows; 2) mortgage or paid off house; 3)Medicare or some other form of heath insurance; 4) costs for food/entertainment/travel.

If you plan to fly business class 3x per year, well, you'll need more than if you go camping. Similarly, if you plan to buy a second home, you'll have that to pay for.

I am likely considered HNW, and have budgeted $60k/year spending, after taxes, at the low end (base expenses, minimal travel) and $130-140k at the high end. Likely we will be somewhere in between, depending on how much we help our kids out. $10k/month will provide a "do anything we want" (more or less) lifestyle. Note that, upon reaching SS, our pension and SS payments will pay for the vast majority of what we need and reduce our withdrawal rate to 2% or less. So, we may end up spending more early in retirement.

6-7 years from retirement now if all goes well.

If you will get 2/3 of your 90k from a pension, AND you are eligible for SS, then you should be able to make an educated guess about what you'll need to draw from your portfolio. That will tell you if 900k is enough, or if you need to A) save more or B) plan to spend less. But, again, a lot can happen in 15 years. But ballpark, 4% of 900k is 36k/year (before taxes) so you'd likely be fine, assuming some SS.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by TheTimeLord »

Rick Ferri wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am
Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
I speak with hundreds of retirees each year. Most are HNW individuals or couples. The median budget in retirement is about $70,000 - this includes travel but does not include income tax or gifts. Only about 10% of the retirees I speak with spend more than $100,000 per year, and that's usually because they have two homes or travel extensively.

Rick Ferri
Just for context, what is the definition of High Net Worth?
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Admiral »

TheTimeLord wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:40 pm
Rick Ferri wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am
Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
I speak with hundreds of retirees each year. Most are HNW individuals or couples. The median budget in retirement is about $70,000 - this includes travel but does not include income tax or gifts. Only about 10% of the retirees I speak with spend more than $100,000 per year, and that's usually because they have two homes or travel extensively.

Rick Ferri
Just for context, what is the definition of High Net Worth?
Typically $1m in investible assets (that's the commonly accepted definition, Rick might have his own.)
formerlybroke
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by formerlybroke »

From CFP Board whitepaper: Building a Wealth Management Practice: Measuring CFP® Professionals' Contribution https://tinyurl.com/y585cgyl

This study references four different segments of advisor clients based on investable assets:
 Mass-market clients have less than US$100,000 in investable assets.
 Mass-affluent clients have between US$100,000 and US$999,000.
HNW clients have between US$1 million and US$9.9 million.
UHNW clients have US$10 million or more.
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HomerJ
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by HomerJ »

mptfan wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:17 pm As a reference point, the average American household spent $63,036 in 2019.

(The BLS refers to "consumer units" which is essentially the same as a household)

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm
Remember that includes people with mortgages and kids.

In retirement, with no mortgage and no kids, $65,000 a year to spend is pretty similar to someone making $120,000+ with a mortgage and kids (and having to save!)

120,000
- 7000 payroll tax
- 24,000 mortgage
- 12,000 savings
- 12,000 kid(s)

= 65,000 for everything else... Exact same lifestyle in retirement with $65,000 income as you had working making $120,000.
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mptfan
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by mptfan »

Yes, that includes people with mortgages and kids, and student loans, and car loans. And it includes people who don't have any of those things. And it includes retired people. And it includes single people. And it includes couples.
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by FactualFran »

Mlm wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:22 pm For the past four years I have spent 25-30K per year. I could easily spend 60K with no worries so I must be doing something wrong.
If you are doing something wrong, then so am I. My average spending per year has been close to that range. The spending amount does not include income taxes, which have been unusually high because of Roth conversions.
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Golf maniac »

We are retired and have been in Florida for two years, we moved from North Carolina. Car and home insurance are more expensive and home insurance can be considerably higher near the coasts. Real estate taxes are higher here compared to NC, but probably cheaper than the NE. No state taxes help. Obviously south Florida is more expensive than central or North Florida. You can develop your own budget. Talk to real estate agents in the area you are looking at, they can give you a good estimate on real estate, taxes and cost of living.
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beyou
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by beyou »

Rick Ferri wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am
Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
I speak with hundreds of retirees each year. Most are HNW individuals or couples. The median budget in retirement is about $70,000 - this includes travel but does not include income tax or gifts. Only about 10% of the retirees I speak with spend more than $100,000 per year, and that's usually because they have two homes or travel extensively.

Rick Ferri
Location matters a great deal. I live in HCOL area, my spending (without income taxes) is at least 85-90k, minimally.
Food is expensive here (we buy whole foods organic foods). High PROPERTY taxes. Basically every service we buy costs more than other areas, hence HCOL term. I found the only large items that didn't cost us more...higher education for kids (done) and auto purchase (though maintenance and insurance is more in a HCOL area). I think in my area there would be many in the 100k/year range, which is why so many move to LCOL areas upon retirement, brining down that median and average. Personally I had opportunities to move to a LCOL area during my working years, and turned them down as I prefer to stay where I am. As I approach retirement, my short term plan is to stay in same home and continue paying the HCOL. Could change based on non-financial circumstances (family location/needs).
From a financial standpoint, my state has many breaks for seniors, which could help us stay in place somewhat affordably. But if family and friends move to LCOL areas, then our desire to remain in place and pay the cost would decline and we'd consider moving. Until then will take every senior discount I can find, as eligible (not there yet but getting close).
Last edited by beyou on Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by MikeG62 »

delamer wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:26 am Making assumptions about what you’ll spend in retirement can get you in a lot of trouble.

Aside from any big lifestyle changes (like the travel or second home you mention), the best way to plan your retirement expenses is to get a firm grasp of your current expenses as you near retirement. Figure out what you spend on housing, transportation, food, charity, hobbies, clothing, etc. Add in income taxes and new expenditures (like travel), and subtract reductions (for example, less spending on transportation due to no commute to work) — then you’ll have a clearer idea of what your spend-rate will be.
^This is absolutely the right way to think about estimating what your spending level might be in retirement. Could not have said it better myself.
MyBrothersAdvisor wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:14 am I guess my main question is: Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
Yes, significantly more. But I don't know how that helps you.
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DSBH
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by DSBH »

In our 4th year of retirement with neither mortgage nor debt, averaging: 12k for property taxes + 72k for regular expenses + 24k for travel (when applicable) for a total of roughly 108k/yr after taxes and donations.
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2pedals
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by 2pedals »

Ages 59 and 61
2 years into retirement, has good medical retiree plan

2019 spending w/o taxes $74k; with taxes $97k (includes purchase of lightly used RAV4 for about 21k)
2020 spending w/o taxes $51k; with taxes $71k (very little travel due to COVID-19)
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Rick Ferri
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Rick Ferri »

OffGridder wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:56 pm
Rick Ferri wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am
Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
I speak with hundreds of retirees each year. Most are HNW individuals or couples. The median budget in retirement is about $70,000 - this includes travel but does not include income tax or gifts. Only about 10% of the retirees I speak with spend more than $100,000 per year, and that's usually because they have two homes or travel extensively.

Rick Ferri
Rick,

Thank you for your data point and perspective based on actual experience. At what minimum dollar level do you consider an individual or couple to be High Net Worth (HNW)! The last data I saw for Americans over age 65, was a median net worth of $266K and an average net worth of 1.2M.

Dave
Ah-ha! You need to listen to my latest Bogleheads on Investing podcast with Frazer Rice. :wink:

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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by Normchad »

Rick Ferri wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am
Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
I speak with hundreds of retirees each year. Most are HNW individuals or couples. The median budget in retirement is about $70,000 - this includes travel but does not include income tax or gifts. Only about 10% of the retirees I speak with spend more than $100,000 per year, and that's usually because they have two homes or travel extensively.

Rick Ferri
Thank you Rick. This is amazing good information to have, and I appreciate getting it from a trustworthy source such as yourself. You’ve made my day!
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MyBrothersAdvisor
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by MyBrothersAdvisor »

Rick Ferri wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am
Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement?
I speak with hundreds of retirees each year. Most are HNW individuals or couples. The median budget in retirement is about $70,000 - this includes travel but does not include income tax or gifts. Only about 10% of the retirees I speak with spend more than $100,000 per year, and that's usually because they have two homes or travel extensively.

Rick Ferri
This is amazingly helpful! I think I'd like to shoot for the 10% group that spends more than $100k so we can get that second home. Thanks again!
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by ForeverPunjabi »

Not retired yet, but I did list the expenses I expect recently: ~$60K per year - net of taxes.

That's with a paid off mortgage, but living in a VHCOL location. Does not include travel which I expect to do. Or healthcare expenses which I need to research a bit.
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MyBrothersAdvisor
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by MyBrothersAdvisor »

delamer wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:26 am Making assumptions about what you’ll spend in retirement can get you in a lot of trouble.

Aside from any big lifestyle changes (like the travel or second home you mention), the best way to plan your retirement expenses is to get a firm grasp of your current expenses as you near retirement. Figure out what you spend on housing, transportation, food, charity, hobbies, clothing, etc. Add in income taxes and new expenditures (like travel), and subtract reductions (for example, less spending on transportation due to no commute to work) — then you’ll have a clearer idea of what your spend-rate will be.

And if you want good advice on whether there are “giant holes in my projections” we’d need a lot more detail than you’ve provided.
This was wonderful advice. So, I took the time to go through our previous credit card spending from 2020 which includes the majority of our spending - utilities, our health & wellness costs (copays/RXs), travel (camping primarily bc of COVID), home repairs and food/drink/groceries. I had to work through the home repairs as we're making some extensive updates to the house, but I estimated a normal years worth at $150/month. We do all the work ourselves, so we'd always just have material costs. That gave me a much better idea and I've worked backwards from there. Thank you for the insight!
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MyBrothersAdvisor
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by MyBrothersAdvisor »

Admiral wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:34 pm
MyBrothersAdvisor wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:14 am Good morning! This is my first post, but I'm a long-time lurker. I'm working through my projections and always get hung up on how much to assume I'll spend annually once I'm done working. What does everybody spend annually in retired not including your mortgage. I always assume $30k in addition to my projected pension which should be about $60k. I'll have health insurance for me and my husband in retirement so that should save us a bit. And I've conservatively assumed we'll have $900k in our investments at age 55 when I retire. We're hoping to travel quite a bit and/or get a second home to enjoy when our kids have kids and pass down to them once we're gone.

I guess my main question is: Does anybody spend significantly more than $90k/year in retirement? OR, maybe you don't but you see some giant holes in my projections and how I'm hoping our retirement will play out. We've got a number of years (more than 15, but less than 20) to correct things if it isn't going to work. I'd love to get a jump on it now! :)
There are retired posters here who have $20m, and others who have much less than $1m. So, what others may do (or plan to do) should have no bearing on your plan. 15 years out, it's difficult to estimate your retirement expenses, though it's not impossible. The things you can foresee and make guesstimates for are 1) pension and SS cashflows; 2) mortgage or paid off house; 3)Medicare or some other form of heath insurance; 4) costs for food/entertainment/travel.

If you plan to fly business class 3x per year, well, you'll need more than if you go camping. Similarly, if you plan to buy a second home, you'll have that to pay for.

I am likely considered HNW, and have budgeted $60k/year spending, after taxes, at the low end (base expenses, minimal travel) and $130-140k at the high end. Likely we will be somewhere in between, depending on how much we help our kids out. $10k/month will provide a "do anything we want" (more or less) lifestyle. Note that, upon reaching SS, our pension and SS payments will pay for the vast majority of what we need and reduce our withdrawal rate to 2% or less. So, we may end up spending more early in retirement.

6-7 years from retirement now if all goes well.

If you will get 2/3 of your 90k from a pension, AND you are eligible for SS, then you should be able to make an educated guess about what you'll need to draw from your portfolio. That will tell you if 900k is enough, or if you need to A) save more or B) plan to spend less. But, again, a lot can happen in 15 years. But ballpark, 4% of 900k is 36k/year (before taxes) so you'd likely be fine, assuming some SS.
I always leave SS benefits off any projection in the event it's gone once I retire. I don't want to toss any eggs in that basket in the (unlikely) event I can't count on it. That being said, whenever I do put in SS to get all my numbers, it ends up being just fine!
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by MyBrothersAdvisor »

HomerJ wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:04 pm
mptfan wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:17 pm As a reference point, the average American household spent $63,036 in 2019.

(The BLS refers to "consumer units" which is essentially the same as a household)

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cesan.nr0.htm
Remember that includes people with mortgages and kids.

In retirement, with no mortgage and no kids, $65,000 a year to spend is pretty similar to someone making $120,000+ with a mortgage and kids (and having to save!)

120,000
- 7000 payroll tax
- 24,000 mortgage
- 12,000 savings
- 12,000 kid(s)

= 65,000 for everything else... Exact same lifestyle in retirement with $65,000 income as you had working making $120,000.

This is always my hope! Having the mortgage/kids now definitely changes our spending/savings numbers. I think this is the biggest thing I need to remember when planning. What we spend now won't be what we always spend. Since we're somewhat far from retirement, I always struggle with what our expenses COULD be in the future.
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Re: For those retired or FI, how much do you spend annually?

Post by MyBrothersAdvisor »

DSBH wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:31 pm In our 4th year of retirement with neither mortgage nor debt, averaging: 12k for property taxes + 72k for regular expenses + 24k for travel (when applicable) for a total of roughly 108k/yr after taxes and donations.
After working out our current monthly expenses and what I'm *thinking* they'd be in the future, this seems like it would be similar to our situation. Are you traveling extravagantly to get to that $24k price point? I don't expect to fly business class, but I was hoping to be able to at least book a trip when we felt like a vacation. We've got some international travel on our bucket list and I'm wondering if $24k is a good baseline for that type of vacation??
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