What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
We dont factor our home in our net worth. Never have, never will.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
About 8% and 23% respectively. I don't include equity or home value in my net worth so if I did those percentages would be a little less.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Just curious as to why you don't calculate it in your net worth? I know that you're not the only one to do that, but even though a house may be more illiquid than a retirement account or a taxable account, if you and a renter had the same assets (except you owned a $500k home) surely your net worths would not be equivalent?
It's something I've been thinking about lately because my wife and I decided to put $400K down on a house that we bought. By your calculations, our net worth would be higher had we only put 20% down but taken on more debt as long as our bank account was higher?
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
For whatever reason, this is a majorly contentious topic on BH. There’s a large group of people that don’t include their home in net worth. From a definition standpoint, this is illogical to me. But it’s turned into a virtue signaling thing around here. There will never be agreement on this topic and there are probably hundreds of posts on both sides of the issue.LITeacher wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:10 amJust curious as to why you don't calculate it in your net worth? I know that you're not the only one to do that, but even though a house may be more illiquid than a retirement account or a taxable account, if you and a renter had the same assets (except you owned a $500k home) surely your net worths would not be equivalent?
It's something I've been thinking about lately because my wife and I decided to put $400K down on a house that we bought. By your calculations, our net worth would be higher had we only put 20% down but taken on more debt as long as our bank account was higher?
The key to not including your home in net worth is to state that loudly in any topic where you can shoehorn it in.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
1. 15% maybe. Depends.
2. Outside R/E holdings are a "business" so not included in anything.
There are a lot of preferred and "CPA by the book" calculations of "net worth" when it is needed for various purposes.
Actionably: How is the relationship between "Home Equity" and "Net Worth" related to Investment Finance strategy and planning and/or retirement planning?
j
2. Outside R/E holdings are a "business" so not included in anything.
There are a lot of preferred and "CPA by the book" calculations of "net worth" when it is needed for various purposes.
Actionably: How is the relationship between "Home Equity" and "Net Worth" related to Investment Finance strategy and planning and/or retirement planning?
j
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
1) 5%
2) 10%
I include it because home equity is an asset. But whatever.
It's pretty small for us, which I think means we live in a home well below our means.
2) 10%
I include it because home equity is an asset. But whatever.
It's pretty small for us, which I think means we live in a home well below our means.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Non revenue producing assets:
Home (summer) - 8%
Home (winter) - 7%
Revenue producing assets:
Commercial real estate - 25%
Bonds, CDs, cash - 25%
Stocks - 35%
Home (summer) - 8%
Home (winter) - 7%
Revenue producing assets:
Commercial real estate - 25%
Bonds, CDs, cash - 25%
Stocks - 35%
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
For those who rent, does the outgoing cash flow decrease net worth every month to a greater extent than those with a mortgage in which technically equity goes up. That being said the value of the home is potentially variable day to day, month to month and year to year.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
So true.London wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:17 amFor whatever reason, this is a majorly contentious topic on BH. There’s a large group of people that don’t include their home in net worth. From a definition standpoint, this is illogical to me. But it’s turned into a virtue signaling thing around here. There will never be agreement on this topic and there are probably hundreds of posts on both sides of the issue.LITeacher wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:10 amJust curious as to why you don't calculate it in your net worth? I know that you're not the only one to do that, but even though a house may be more illiquid than a retirement account or a taxable account, if you and a renter had the same assets (except you owned a $500k home) surely your net worths would not be equivalent?
It's something I've been thinking about lately because my wife and I decided to put $400K down on a house that we bought. By your calculations, our net worth would be higher had we only put 20% down but taken on more debt as long as our bank account was higher?
The key to not including your home in net worth is to state that loudly in any topic where you can shoehorn it in.
The fool, with all his other faults, has this also - he is always getting ready to live. - Seneca Epistles < c. 65AD
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
22% for both.
The fool, with all his other faults, has this also - he is always getting ready to live. - Seneca Epistles < c. 65AD
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Equity = 16.8% of net worth
Home Value = 34.6% of net worth
We own about 50% of our house and are in no hurry to pay down our 3% mortgage.
Home Value = 34.6% of net worth
We own about 50% of our house and are in no hurry to pay down our 3% mortgage.
“Having, first, gained all you can, and, secondly saved all you can, then give all you can.” - John Wesley
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Perhaps a another question is "What should your home equity be in terms of NW". Is 50% too much? 33%? 20%?
It certainly depends on portfolio as well. Interested in that question.
It certainly depends on portfolio as well. Interested in that question.
Nescio
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Mine's around 30% but some of this is out of my control, as my house would fluctuate in value. I think 50% is too high though, it means half of your NW is into HE which you can't really touch unless you do HELOC and all that jazz.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
1) 40% (it is a 2 unit building so both our primary and a rental)
2) 105%
We plan to buy another multi-unit as a new primary in the next year and keep our current 2-unit as 2 rental units, so #2 will likely be closer to 200% then.
2) 105%
We plan to buy another multi-unit as a new primary in the next year and keep our current 2-unit as 2 rental units, so #2 will likely be closer to 200% then.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
home equity=21% of NW
home value=41% of NW
home value=41% of NW
"A portfolio is like a bar of soap, the more it's handled, the less there is." Dr. William Bernstein
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
1. ~6%. Paid off home in LCOL area. Retirement plan including moving to a more expensive area so ~15% (max) expected in the next few years.
2. ~8% (minimal REIT investments).
We don't consider our primary residence as an investment than can provide us money for spending so we don't include it in our net worth/portfolio.
2. ~8% (minimal REIT investments).
We don't consider our primary residence as an investment than can provide us money for spending so we don't include it in our net worth/portfolio.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
about 20% of my net worth is in my home equity
I probably have some realestate in my index funds so ~23% or so total realestate.
I probably have some realestate in my index funds so ~23% or so total realestate.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
You sure can tell who owns a CA here. My NH home is a drop in the bucket compared to the what redfin thinks my CA home is worth.
1) 5%
2) 55%
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
I know what you mean! I'd never before calculated the value of owned real estate as a percent of net worth. My numbers looked sort of strange after comparing them to what a lot of others posted here. There's nothing I can do about the fact that my Bay Area home keeps appreciating. I guess there are worse problems to have.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
I'm a renter. I've been renting for a long time and am lucky enough to have a nice rent controlled apartment which meets my family's needs. I pay less in rent than the mortgage would be for a comparable condo or home, and I'm disciplined about investing the difference. Even after a home is paid off there is property taxes and maintenance, which would be nearly the cost of my rent!Xrayman69 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:38 am For those who rent, does the outgoing cash flow decrease net worth every month to a greater extent than those with a mortgage in which technically equity goes up. That being said the value of the home is potentially variable day to day, month to month and year to year.
I hope to downshift and semi-retire soon, so for me the tie-breaker between buying and renting was liquidity: I can sell stocks that have appreciated, but I can't easily use the equity in a home to buy groceries.
67/12/21 US stock/international stock/bonds. Bonds capped at 10x annual spending. Semi-retired as of 2022.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
The ratio of my home value to my portfolio value is about 0.04 or 4%. I'm guessing at the tiny value of my home.
In broken mathematics, We estimate our prize, --Emily Dickinson
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
40% for home. (no other real estate)
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
primary home 25% - fully paid
All real estate 40% - fully paid
All real estate 40% - fully paid
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Once I finish my "lavish" house renos in January, I'll be at 10% for both numbers. (Quotes indicate sarcasm - the renos are not particularly lavish, but are cosmetic and not strictly necessary. Setting us up for a comfortable retirement, then I'm done with fancy house stuff.) And I don't intend to ever own two houses at the same time.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
1. 41.2% equity in home, or rather 35.3% after netting out costs of a future sale (agents' fees, CGT). I still carry a mortgage and will do so until I retire/sell in about 3 years if all goes according to plan.
2. 50.0%. Live in a VHCOL area.
Plan is to sell the home and retire in about 3 years; will use about a third of the net proceeds to purchase a home in the retirement location (no mortgage) and use the other third to add to the portfolio. Assuming this works out, the %ages for 1. and 2. should then be about 21.5%.
2. 50.0%. Live in a VHCOL area.
Plan is to sell the home and retire in about 3 years; will use about a third of the net proceeds to purchase a home in the retirement location (no mortgage) and use the other third to add to the portfolio. Assuming this works out, the %ages for 1. and 2. should then be about 21.5%.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
1. 15%
2. 40%
These values are based on a conservative estimate of home value, too, having enjoyed appreciation since we bought 5 years ago.
I'm not comfortable being this real-estate heavy and it was a stretch for us to buy this house when we did, but we are over the hump of raising a family and wanted to enjoy a lifestyle while the kids were at home. It was part of the plan to downsize in a few years, but now that looks less likely due to the real estate market in our area.
2. 40%
These values are based on a conservative estimate of home value, too, having enjoyed appreciation since we bought 5 years ago.
I'm not comfortable being this real-estate heavy and it was a stretch for us to buy this house when we did, but we are over the hump of raising a family and wanted to enjoy a lifestyle while the kids were at home. It was part of the plan to downsize in a few years, but now that looks less likely due to the real estate market in our area.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
IMO, people like to include their home to pad their number. Lets look at it a different way. Would you rather have $1million in cash, or a home that is worth $1million?LITeacher wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:10 amJust curious as to why you don't calculate it in your net worth? I know that you're not the only one to do that, but even though a house may be more illiquid than a retirement account or a taxable account, if you and a renter had the same assets (except you owned a $500k home) surely your net worths would not be equivalent?
It's something I've been thinking about lately because my wife and I decided to put $400K down on a house that we bought. By your calculations, our net worth would be higher had we only put 20% down but taken on more debt as long as our bank account was higher?
You probably heard the term house poor...people who buy too much house and they are teetering on financial ruin if they lose a job, if a major repair is needed, etc.
I dont view someone who has $0 in savings/retirement/investments but has a house worth $1million the same as someone who has $1million in cash and a house worth whatever, or no house for that matter. My BIL/sister are in the category. He constantly talks about equity in his home, but is in debt up to his eyeballs.
For me personally, my house is a money pit. Between property taxes, school taxes, utilities, insurance, upkeep...at a minimum, it costs us $10,000/year to keep/maintain our house. Almost all that comes from taxes/insurance...not a lot of upkeep. If I had money in a fund that lost $10k each and every year right off the bat, I wouldnt have that fund anymore.
The bottom line is, if you include your home, it makes your numbers look better, theres no way around it. We owe $90k on our house, and we could sell it pretty easily for $400k. Why would I pretend that I magically have an extra $310k? (disregarding capital gains) Its silly talk.
I guess on the bright side...we're much more wealthy than what I calculate according to a lot of people. But like others said, from a definition standpoint, you should include all assets in net worth. I just dont agree with it and it gives a false sense of security.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Interestimg take on home equity. Ignoring fees, I'd say $1m cash and $1m home are equivalent. Either will be fine by me. I can trade in the home for $1m cash or I can buy a $1m. They're the same thing to me.ponyboy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:35 amIMO, people like to include their home to pad their number. Lets look at it a different way. Would you rather have $1million in cash, or a home that is worth $1million?LITeacher wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:10 amJust curious as to why you don't calculate it in your net worth? I know that you're not the only one to do that, but even though a house may be more illiquid than a retirement account or a taxable account, if you and a renter had the same assets (except you owned a $500k home) surely your net worths would not be equivalent?
It's something I've been thinking about lately because my wife and I decided to put $400K down on a house that we bought. By your calculations, our net worth would be higher had we only put 20% down but taken on more debt as long as our bank account was higher?
You probably heard the term house poor...people who buy too much house and they are teetering on financial ruin if they lose a job, if a major repair is needed, etc.
I dont view someone who has $0 in savings/retirement/investments but has a house worth $1million the same as someone who has $1million in cash and a house worth whatever, or no house for that matter. My BIL/sister are in the category. He constantly talks about equity in his home, but is in debt up to his eyeballs.
For me personally, my house is a money pit. Between property taxes, school taxes, utilities, insurance, upkeep...at a minimum, it costs us $10,000/year to keep/maintain our house. Almost all that comes from taxes/insurance...not a lot of upkeep. If I had money in a fund that lost $10k each and every year right off the bat, I wouldnt have that fund anymore.
The bottom line is, if you include your home, it makes your numbers look better, theres no way around it. We owe $90k on our house, and we could sell it pretty easily for $400k. Why would I pretend that I magically have an extra $310k? (disregarding capital gains) Its silly talk.
I guess on the bright side...we're much more wealthy than what I calculate according to a lot of people. But like others said, from a definition standpoint, you should include all assets in net worth. I just dont agree with it and it gives a false sense of security.
I call $10k a year for tax and maintenance, cheap rent. If I owned a fund that provided me a place to live and went down $10k every year, I'd have no issue owning it.
I don't consider including my home equity magically making my numbers better. I include it to have an accurate count on my net worth. Home prices can go down too just like my investments. Including my homes offers me no extra sense security. In fact, including my rental adds anxiety as it puts larger percentage of net worth in real estate.
I understand, we disagree. It's curiously interesting to see a different point of view.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
LFKB wrote: ↑Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:50 am Curious to see what the breakdown is...
1. What % of your net worth is in home equity (including vacation or rental properties to the extent you have them)?
Example: if you have $100k equity in your home and $1M net worth then 10%
2. How much is the total value of your owned real estate as a % of your net worth?
Example: if you own a $500k house and have a $1M net worth then 50%
1. ~5% Paid for house
2. ~10% House + ~70 acres of paid for timber/farmland
Estimates based on property tax valuation.
I live in a VLCOL area.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
By definition the equity in your home counts towards net worth.
You can have some other metric that you define a different way, but its not "net worth".
I guess facts and definitions don't matter anymore in 2020 though.
You can have some other metric that you define a different way, but its not "net worth".
I guess facts and definitions don't matter anymore in 2020 though.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
You bemoan your BIL being up to his eyeballs in debt yet to maximize your “net worth” metric, you should finance a house at 100%.ponyboy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:35 amIMO, people like to include their home to pad their number. Lets look at it a different way. Would you rather have $1million in cash, or a home that is worth $1million?LITeacher wrote: ↑Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:10 amJust curious as to why you don't calculate it in your net worth? I know that you're not the only one to do that, but even though a house may be more illiquid than a retirement account or a taxable account, if you and a renter had the same assets (except you owned a $500k home) surely your net worths would not be equivalent?
It's something I've been thinking about lately because my wife and I decided to put $400K down on a house that we bought. By your calculations, our net worth would be higher had we only put 20% down but taken on more debt as long as our bank account was higher?
You probably heard the term house poor...people who buy too much house and they are teetering on financial ruin if they lose a job, if a major repair is needed, etc.
I dont view someone who has $0 in savings/retirement/investments but has a house worth $1million the same as someone who has $1million in cash and a house worth whatever, or no house for that matter. My BIL/sister are in the category. He constantly talks about equity in his home, but is in debt up to his eyeballs.
For me personally, my house is a money pit. Between property taxes, school taxes, utilities, insurance, upkeep...at a minimum, it costs us $10,000/year to keep/maintain our house. Almost all that comes from taxes/insurance...not a lot of upkeep. If I had money in a fund that lost $10k each and every year right off the bat, I wouldnt have that fund anymore.
The bottom line is, if you include your home, it makes your numbers look better, theres no way around it. We owe $90k on our house, and we could sell it pretty easily for $400k. Why would I pretend that I magically have an extra $310k? (disregarding capital gains) Its silly talk.
I guess on the bright side...we're much more wealthy than what I calculate according to a lot of people. But like others said, from a definition standpoint, you should include all assets in net worth. I just dont agree with it and it gives a false sense of security.
A house is an asset that can be converted to cash. It’s not about looking better, it’s just a finance term.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
1. 14%
2. 14%
BTW - I'm finding the sub-discussion re including home value in NW calculation very interesting. While I joined this site a number of years ago I've decided to re-engage here.
My view: Net worth is net worth. The term itself doesn't discriminate or put a qualifier on degree of liquidity or type of worth or anything like that. So if one is to be precise in calculating Net Worth I think it would be incorrect to NOT include home value. If one fell over and died the house is as much a part of what defines the estate as a brokerage account with $X in it.
Now, if we want to have discussions about Liquid Net Worth, or Investable Assets, or something like that.......that's a different kettle of fish.
2. 14%
BTW - I'm finding the sub-discussion re including home value in NW calculation very interesting. While I joined this site a number of years ago I've decided to re-engage here.
My view: Net worth is net worth. The term itself doesn't discriminate or put a qualifier on degree of liquidity or type of worth or anything like that. So if one is to be precise in calculating Net Worth I think it would be incorrect to NOT include home value. If one fell over and died the house is as much a part of what defines the estate as a brokerage account with $X in it.
Now, if we want to have discussions about Liquid Net Worth, or Investable Assets, or something like that.......that's a different kettle of fish.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Home value is absolutely a part of your NW. Now, whether you should count 100% of estimated value or not is up for debate. My rule of thumb is to discount 7% from that (3%/3% and 1% closing cost / staging etc etc).beandeveloper wrote: ↑Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:45 am 1. 14%
2. 14%
BTW - I'm finding the sub-discussion re including home value in NW calculation very interesting. While I joined this site a number of years ago I've decided to re-engage here.
My view: Net worth is net worth. The term itself doesn't discriminate or put a qualifier on degree of liquidity or type of worth or anything like that. So if one is to be precise in calculating Net Worth I think it would be incorrect to NOT include home value. If one fell over and died the house is as much a part of what defines the estate as a brokerage account with $X in it.
Now, if we want to have discussions about Liquid Net Worth, or Investable Assets, or something like that.......that's a different kettle of fish.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
#1 - 7.8% (3 homes all paid for)
#2 - 7.8%
#2 - 7.8%
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Our spreadsheet have NW with and without RE. Since we're retired the NW without RE number is important. That number tells us what we can spend. The home value can cover long term care if it come to that, but more likely go to the kids. The rentals will either be 1031 into a vacation home or go to the kids, so we tend to completely ignore that number.
I can understand the home value/equity relative to net worth would be important if one is to downsize at some point. Portion of that home value will become available for spending.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
#1. about 6.7%
#2. about 7.5% - 8.5%
-B
#2. about 7.5% - 8.5%
-B
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
1. 52.4% (CA residence) + 12.3% (AZ rental) = 64.7%
2. 83.7% (CA residence) + 45.7% (AZ rental) = 129.4%
Obviously I can’t help that my residence has appreciated more than 50% in the 10 years I’ve lived in it. After maxing out the usual eligible contributions I decided to take advantage of low interest rates this year and buy an investment property in AZ (where I plan to retire) which currently earns much better than a “high-yield” savings. It’s already appreciated a few percentage in 3 months time and I plan on keeping it for many years.
I don’t know why we can’t solve that silly debate and recognize two definitions: Total Net Worth (TNW) including all illiquid assets and Liquid/Investable Net Worth (LNW/INW). Choose the one that best fits your mindset or situation and roll with it. I personally focus on TNW right now since the primary residence isn’t my forever home and plan to make more efficient use of the realized gain after selling.
2. 83.7% (CA residence) + 45.7% (AZ rental) = 129.4%
Obviously I can’t help that my residence has appreciated more than 50% in the 10 years I’ve lived in it. After maxing out the usual eligible contributions I decided to take advantage of low interest rates this year and buy an investment property in AZ (where I plan to retire) which currently earns much better than a “high-yield” savings. It’s already appreciated a few percentage in 3 months time and I plan on keeping it for many years.
I don’t know why we can’t solve that silly debate and recognize two definitions: Total Net Worth (TNW) including all illiquid assets and Liquid/Investable Net Worth (LNW/INW). Choose the one that best fits your mindset or situation and roll with it. I personally focus on TNW right now since the primary residence isn’t my forever home and plan to make more efficient use of the realized gain after selling.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Home paid off.
1. 6%
2. 6%
1. 6%
2. 6%
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Neither do we. I definitely include mutual funds, and I also include stocks and ETFs, except those with other than three characters in the ticker. No one can ever convince me to include these. I also include checking balances but not savings, except that I do include money market funds. I include the value of my car, but not my wife's. I also include all un-secured loans a negative, but exclude secured debt like car loans and mortgages. I figured if I'm going to make up my own definition for "net worth" I might as well not stop after excluding real estate.
Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
17%. Home is paid for and it is our only RE investment.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
About 11-12% for both. Home debt free
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
Roughly 17% of net worth for both questions.
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Re: What % of your Net Worth is Home Equity? What % is total value of RE relative to net worth?
I don't usually count home equity as part of net worth, but if I did ...
12.7%, according to tonight's fund quotes and Zillow's home estimate.
No other RE, and the house is paid off, so the percentages are the same for both questions.
12.7%, according to tonight's fund quotes and Zillow's home estimate.
No other RE, and the house is paid off, so the percentages are the same for both questions.