Federal tax refund is late

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tj
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by tj »

jebmke wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:44 pm
tj wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:27 pm The reason is that when you file early, you are considered to have filed on the due date. The statute of limitations also begins in April rather than actual filing date...
Presumably it works both ways. If you underpay and later get assessed, the interest for underpayment starts on the filing due date, not the date you underpaid (if that occurred before).
The extension is only for filing, not payment.
jebmke
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by jebmke »

yes, I know. But what I meant was, if you filed, say in February and paid X and in October get a letter saying you owe X+y, the interest on y starts on the due date, not the date you filed.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
talzara
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by talzara »

jebmke wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:38 pm With limited funds, the IRS invested in updating their efile system just a few years back to the MEF system. Given their budget limitations this was the right move in my opinion.
Modernized e-File (MeF) collects a lot more data than legacy e-file, but most of it is discarded before it's posted to the Individual Master File (IMF). The IMF is holding everything back, because the IMF is based on the paper processing system. Only the lines that are keyed in from a paper return are stored in the IMF.

Instead of improving the paper processing system and the IMF, the IRS decided to rewrite the software from the ground up. After 20 years, the Customer Account Data Engine (CADE) is now capable of processing a simple 1040-EZ. However, the 1040-EZ no longer exists.
jebmke wrote: Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:38 pm Businesses make this decision all the time - invest in the newer technology product and do only limited maintenance on an older technology product. The move this year to allow efiling of amended returns is consistent with that and will take a large portion of the paper returns to efile.
What you're advocating is exactly how the IRS got into this mess:
  • CADE barely works after 20 years.
  • MeF is being held back by IMF, which is almost 60 years old.
  • Paper returns are still keyed in by human typists.
  • COVID-19 made it impossible to key in the returns.
The IRS put all its eggs into one basket. The rewrite had to work, because there was no Plan B. When the rewrite failed, the IRS was stuck with no way to process paper returns.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:40 pm I never cease to be amazed by the number of bogleheads with six and seven figure investment portfolios who agonize over the paltry cost of e-filing their tax returns.
Could it be that the avoidance of wasteful spending is often a significant contributor to achieving a "six and seven figure investment portfolio?"
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
jebmke
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by jebmke »

FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:01 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:40 pm I never cease to be amazed by the number of bogleheads with six and seven figure investment portfolios who agonize over the paltry cost of e-filing their tax returns.
Could it be that the avoidance of wasteful spending is often a significant contributor to achieving a "six and seven figure investment portfolio?"
Somehow, I think $20 isn't going to move the needle. Their choice obviously but once you make the choice, you have to live with the consequences.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

jebmke wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:09 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:01 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:40 pm I never cease to be amazed by the number of bogleheads with six and seven figure investment portfolios who agonize over the paltry cost of e-filing their tax returns.
Could it be that the avoidance of wasteful spending is often a significant contributor to achieving a "six and seven figure investment portfolio?"
Somehow, I think $20 isn't going to move the needle. Their choice obviously but once you make the choice, you have to live with the consequences.
It's not just the one $20. It's a healthy habit of not wasting money on unnecessary things.

What are these consequences you're talking about? :confused
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
jebmke
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by jebmke »

FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm What are these consequences you're talking about?
Having your tax return sit in a warehouse, potentially lost or erroneously entered into a keystroke-based system.

The last time I filed a paper return (no choice, had to include copious amounts of ex-pat tax returns in other countries), my return got lost in the shuffle; eventually I had to resend them an entire new file. I originally filed in December, 2010 (I had dispensation from the Oct deadline). My refund came in mid-summer 2012.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
westcoast
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by westcoast »

We e-filed May 5th. We received our state refund two weeks later. We have still not received our federal refund. Through the IRS website they show they have received and are processing our return. I called them last wednesday and was told to wait another three weeks for the refund.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

jebmke wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:23 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm What are these consequences you're talking about?
Having your tax return sit in a warehouse, potentially lost or erroneously entered into a keystroke-based system.

The last time I filed a paper return (no choice, had to include copious amounts of ex-pat tax returns in other countries), my return got lost in the shuffle; eventually I had to resend them an entire new file. I originally filed in December, 2010 (I had dispensation from the Oct deadline). My refund came in mid-summer 2012.
I don't do refunds. I pay my estimated taxes and taxes due electronically, and have my bank statements to support. I send paper certified mail, which guarantees that I can't be penalized for failure to timely file. If they want to let my paper sit for months, I couldn't care less.... 8-) They've got my money and I have everything I need (plus $20 I didn't even know I was saving :P ).
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
jebmke
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by jebmke »

Same here; this was an unusual situation. Very large S 1341 deduction that came out of the blue. Always be owing is my motto. Surprises do happen, though. $20 is for state; Federal is normally free to efile.
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VictoriaF
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by VictoriaF »

FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm
jebmke wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:09 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:01 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:40 pm I never cease to be amazed by the number of bogleheads with six and seven figure investment portfolios who agonize over the paltry cost of e-filing their tax returns.
Could it be that the avoidance of wasteful spending is often a significant contributor to achieving a "six and seven figure investment portfolio?"
Somehow, I think $20 isn't going to move the needle. Their choice obviously but once you make the choice, you have to live with the consequences.
It's not just the one $20. It's a healthy habit of not wasting money on unnecessary things.

What are these consequences you're talking about? :confused
I have and will continue filing on paper. My reasons:
1. I have a system and I don't have sufficient reasons to change it. Changing a system is cognitively and temporally involved and I have better ways to use my cognition and time.
2. I trust paper filing more than electronic filing. I may misunderstand the risks of each, but this is my today's risk assessment. It may change in the future and may become a sufficient reason to reconsider item-1.

Victoria
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Coburn
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by Coburn »

FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm What are these consequences you're talking about? :confused
Are you being flippant? Assuming you're not, one major consequence of filing paper forms is the sheer backlog the IRS is dealing with this year. When will they get them all done?...who can say?

In the OP's case: you will have to wait, however long that is.

Me: eFile all the way.

It's 2020...people! New decade...maybe you should reevaluate how you do things.
Vanguard Fan 1367
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by Vanguard Fan 1367 »

I did efile around April Fools Day and I am still waiting.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

Coburn wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:10 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm What are these consequences you're talking about? :confused
Are you being flippant? Assuming you're not, one major consequence of filing paper forms is the sheer backlog the IRS is dealing with this year. When will they get them all done?...who can say?

In the OP's case: you will have to wait, however long that is.

Me: eFile all the way.

It's 2020...people! New decade...maybe you should reevaluate how you do things.
Not at all "flippant." "When will they get them all done? ….who can say?" Why in the heck would I care???!!! I couldn't care less about what the IRS does after I place my (fully paid) paper return in certified mail to them. If others want to send their info out in electronic format into cyber space with full faith in some third party to get it done, than good for them! 8-) Why does it matter that it's 2020 (or 2030, or 2040....). As far as I know, there is only one confirmed method of filing an IRS return with zero risk of failure to timely file. It's a paper return sent via certified mail.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
palanzo
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by palanzo »

FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:48 pm
Coburn wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:10 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm What are these consequences you're talking about? :confused
Are you being flippant? Assuming you're not, one major consequence of filing paper forms is the sheer backlog the IRS is dealing with this year. When will they get them all done?...who can say?

In the OP's case: you will have to wait, however long that is.

Me: eFile all the way.

It's 2020...people! New decade...maybe you should reevaluate how you do things.
Not at all "flippant." "When will they get them all done? ….who can say?" Why in the heck would I care???!!! I couldn't care less about what the IRS does after I place my (fully paid) paper return in certified mail to them. If others want to send their info out in electronic format into cyber space with full faith in some third party to get it done, than good for them! 8-) Why does it matter that it's 2020 (or 2030, or 2040....). As far as I know, there is only one confirmed method of filing an IRS return with zero risk of failure to timely file. It's a paper return sent via certified mail.
Zero risk of failure to timely file if you e-file. You get an acknowledgement directly from the IRS, usually within 24 hours. You are getting no acknowledgement from the IRS if you use certified mail. Your mail could still get lost.
Coburn
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by Coburn »

FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:48 pm
Coburn wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:10 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm What are these consequences you're talking about? :confused
Are you being flippant? Assuming you're not, one major consequence of filing paper forms is the sheer backlog the IRS is dealing with this year. When will they get them all done?...who can say?

In the OP's case: you will have to wait, however long that is.

Me: eFile all the way.

It's 2020...people! New decade...maybe you should reevaluate how you do things.
Not at all "flippant." "When will they get them all done? ….who can say?" Why in the heck would I care???!!! I couldn't care less about what the IRS does after I place my (fully paid) paper return in certified mail to them. If others want to send their info out in electronic format into cyber space with full faith in some third party to get it done, than good for them! 8-) Why does it matter that it's 2020 (or 2030, or 2040....). As far as I know, there is only one confirmed method of filing an IRS return with zero risk of failure to timely file. It's a paper return sent via certified mail.
Do as you wish.

Sending paper forms via certified mail doesn't prove a thingin the eyes of the IRS.
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8foot7
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by 8foot7 »

Those clinging to paper for, shall we say, less than solid reasons will surely change tunes when you find out an identity thief e-filed a fraudulent return using your SSN on January 29 one year and got a $5,000 refund, and you then have to waste hours on the phone and sending paper items back and forth to the IRS to have your name cleared and your proper taxes filed.

Not to mention a fat-finger typo or OCR mistake that picks up a 8 instead of a 0 and now the IRS thinks you made $180,000 last year and not $100,000 and so where's their cash? One response to a CP-2000 from a transcription error costs you more in time and aggravation that you save not e-filing.

Of course it also costs money to send things certified mail, as well as time (which I assume has some value to most people) to take your returns to the post office to get them send that way...

All to save $20 and some cognitive headwinds? :oops:
the way
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by the way »

8foot7 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:50 pm Those clinging to paper for, shall we say, less than solid reasons will surely change tunes when you find out an identity thief e-filed a fraudulent return using your SSN on January 29 one year and got a $5,000 refund, and you then have to waste hours on the phone and sending paper items back and forth to the IRS to have your name cleared and your proper taxes filed.
How does paper filing result in someone e-filing a fake return that would've been avoided by efiling?

Does e-filing require a password? If not, it should. The IRS should have some basic protection at least. Seems like they could also allow you to register online your address and bank account, so if someone tries a fake return they won't get any money.
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8foot7
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by 8foot7 »

the way wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:00 pm
How does paper filing result in someone e-filing a fake return?

Does e-filing require a password? If not, it should. The IRS should have some basic protection at least. Seems like they could also allow you to register online your address and bank account, so if someone tries a fake return they won't get any money.
If someone e-files before you file your paper return, the IRS will generally accept the e-filed return and process it as, well, your return. https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/t ... tity-theft

I don't know all of the IRS' authentication mechanisms but I have to put in last year's AGI when I e-file through Turbotax. You can get AGIs through the transcript service so identity thieves with your personal data could retrieve it.

I think some folks have PINs they use instead of AGI, but those PINs have been hacked before - search google for IRS Pin hack and you'll see stories from 2016.

The general idea here for safety is e-file as soon as you have a finished tax return. You don't have to pay a tax balance before the return's due date. But you reduce the chance that someone else filing a fraudulent tax return for that year in your name negatively affects you or your refund.
palanzo
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by palanzo »

8foot7 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:05 pm I don't know all of the IRS' authentication mechanisms but I have to put in last year's AGI when I e-file through Turbotax. You can get AGIs through the transcript service so identity thieves with your personal data could retrieve it.
You can get AGIs through the transcript service but the bad guys can't get transcripts of you have set up an IRS account with 2FA.
simas
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by simas »

VictoriaF wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:42 am I filed my 2019 Federal and state income taxes on May 1st, 2020. Both required refunds to my bank account. I filed on paper and mailed them using USPS certified mail.

Today's status is as following:
- A couple days ago, I received a refund of my state income tax.
- My IRS Get Transcript account shows that I have NOT filed the 2019 tax.
- The USPS tracking tool shows that the Federal tax has been delivered on May 19th, 2020.
- The IRS advises that a paper refund is considered "late" after 6 weeks from the date of mailing.
- My refund is now more than 6 weeks late.

I am interested in others' experiences. Should I wait a couple more weeks? When should I assume a problem and call the IRS?

Victoria
they _may_ get to it this year, depending on how bad second (and third, and subsequent) waves of COVID would be . May is the key word (or may not). so you are not looking at weeks here..
tealeaves
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by tealeaves »

Has anyone here actually been notified by the IRS that they were late in filing and proved otherwise by showing the certified mail receipt?

And (dumb question) how would the IRS know that the certified mail was for the 1040 (and not a holiday card)?
simas
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by simas »

FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:48 pm
Coburn wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:10 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm What are these consequences you're talking about? :confused
Are you being flippant? Assuming you're not, one major consequence of filing paper forms is the sheer backlog the IRS is dealing with this year. When will they get them all done?...who can say?

In the OP's case: you will have to wait, however long that is.

Me: eFile all the way.

It's 2020...people! New decade...maybe you should reevaluate how you do things.
Not at all "flippant." "When will they get them all done? ….who can say?" Why in the heck would I care???!!! I couldn't care less about what the IRS does after I place my (fully paid) paper return in certified mail to them. If others want to send their info out in electronic format into cyber space with full faith in some third party to get it done, than good for them! 8-) Why does it matter that it's 2020 (or 2030, or 2040....). As far as I know, there is only one confirmed method of filing an IRS return with zero risk of failure to timely file. It's a paper return sent via certified mail.
understand that you are comparing
a) few seconds (or less than that) electronic transmission of encrypted data over secure channel established between your computer and IRS server with instant and immediate confirmation that it is received.
with
b) writing EVEYRTHING about yourself (name, address, social security numbers, financial information, etc) on a effing piece of paper like it is 15th century again. zero encryption, zero protection, everything in plain text, unknown number of third hands it is being passed through, physical artifact that could be lost, misdirected , stolen ,etc. permanent record of all key information that just screams to identify thief's attention. Not wise at all in terms of security for your data...

how in a world paper is more safe and secure??
simas
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by simas »

tealeaves wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:50 pm Has anyone here actually been notified by the IRS that they were late in filing and proved otherwise by showing the certified mail receipt?

And (dumb question) how would the IRS know that the certified mail was for the 1040 (and not a holiday card)?
if there is no electronic record (i.e. trace on the USPS site as example), the receipt is irrelevant. same with any paper statement. with modern computer technology, you can create yourself any receipts you want fairly easily. what matters are the records of the counter party this is compared with (such record should exist).

so people who believe 'I will not trust my information to this new 20th century electronic technology thingy' actually understand that their information arrives to IRS electronically from the various parties involved (their brokerages, their employees, their mortgage holders, etc) ?
palanzo
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by palanzo »

simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:46 pm
VictoriaF wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:42 am I filed my 2019 Federal and state income taxes on May 1st, 2020. Both required refunds to my bank account. I filed on paper and mailed them using USPS certified mail.

Today's status is as following:
- A couple days ago, I received a refund of my state income tax.
- My IRS Get Transcript account shows that I have NOT filed the 2019 tax.
- The USPS tracking tool shows that the Federal tax has been delivered on May 19th, 2020.
- The IRS advises that a paper refund is considered "late" after 6 weeks from the date of mailing.
- My refund is now more than 6 weeks late.

I am interested in others' experiences. Should I wait a couple more weeks? When should I assume a problem and call the IRS?

Victoria
they _may_ get to it this year, depending on how bad second (and third, and subsequent) waves of COVID would be . May is the key word (or may not). so you are not looking at weeks here..
It is better to e-file especially in circumstances such as we have this year.
palanzo
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by palanzo »

simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:56 pm
tealeaves wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:50 pm Has anyone here actually been notified by the IRS that they were late in filing and proved otherwise by showing the certified mail receipt?

And (dumb question) how would the IRS know that the certified mail was for the 1040 (and not a holiday card)?
if there is no electronic record (i.e. trace on the USPS site as example), the receipt is irrelevant. same with any paper statement. with modern computer technology, you can create yourself any receipts you want fairly easily. what matters are the records of the counter party this is compared with (such record should exist).

so people who believe 'I will not trust my information to this new 20th century electronic technology thingy' actually understand that their information arrives to IRS electronically from the various parties involved (their brokerages, their employees, their mortgage holders, etc) ?
This is not so. Certified Mail does have an electronic record on USPS.com.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

Coburn wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:58 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:48 pm
Coburn wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:10 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm What are these consequences you're talking about? :confused
Are you being flippant? Assuming you're not, one major consequence of filing paper forms is the sheer backlog the IRS is dealing with this year. When will they get them all done?...who can say?

In the OP's case: you will have to wait, however long that is.

Me: eFile all the way.

It's 2020...people! New decade...maybe you should reevaluate how you do things.
Not at all "flippant." "When will they get them all done? ….who can say?" Why in the heck would I care???!!! I couldn't care less about what the IRS does after I place my (fully paid) paper return in certified mail to them. If others want to send their info out in electronic format into cyber space with full faith in some third party to get it done, than good for them! 8-) Why does it matter that it's 2020 (or 2030, or 2040....). As far as I know, there is only one confirmed method of filing an IRS return with zero risk of failure to timely file. It's a paper return sent via certified mail.
Do as you wish.

Sending paper forms via certified mail doesn't prove a thingin the eyes of the IRS.
You are absolutely wrong about this. The IRS has acknowledged that if something/anything was sent to them via certified mail, it will excuse the filer from any claims of not filing in a timely manner. If you don't believe me, than do some googling/searching. It doesn't have to make sense. It is what it is. 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:25 pm
simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:46 pm
VictoriaF wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:42 am I filed my 2019 Federal and state income taxes on May 1st, 2020. Both required refunds to my bank account. I filed on paper and mailed them using USPS certified mail.

Today's status is as following:
- A couple days ago, I received a refund of my state income tax.
- My IRS Get Transcript account shows that I have NOT filed the 2019 tax.
- The USPS tracking tool shows that the Federal tax has been delivered on May 19th, 2020.
- The IRS advises that a paper refund is considered "late" after 6 weeks from the date of mailing.
- My refund is now more than 6 weeks late.

I am interested in others' experiences. Should I wait a couple more weeks? When should I assume a problem and call the IRS?

Victoria
they _may_ get to it this year, depending on how bad second (and third, and subsequent) waves of COVID would be . May is the key word (or may not). so you are not looking at weeks here..
It is better to e-file especially in circumstances such as we have this year.
Why?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:53 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:48 pm
Coburn wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:10 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm What are these consequences you're talking about? :confused
Are you being flippant? Assuming you're not, one major consequence of filing paper forms is the sheer backlog the IRS is dealing with this year. When will they get them all done?...who can say?

In the OP's case: you will have to wait, however long that is.

Me: eFile all the way.

It's 2020...people! New decade...maybe you should reevaluate how you do things.
Not at all "flippant." "When will they get them all done? ….who can say?" Why in the heck would I care???!!! I couldn't care less about what the IRS does after I place my (fully paid) paper return in certified mail to them. If others want to send their info out in electronic format into cyber space with full faith in some third party to get it done, than good for them! 8-) Why does it matter that it's 2020 (or 2030, or 2040....). As far as I know, there is only one confirmed method of filing an IRS return with zero risk of failure to timely file. It's a paper return sent via certified mail.
understand that you are comparing
a) few seconds (or less than that) electronic transmission of encrypted data over secure channel established between your computer and IRS server with instant and immediate confirmation that it is received.
with
b) writing EVEYRTHING about yourself (name, address, social security numbers, financial information, etc) on a effing piece of paper like it is 15th century again. zero encryption, zero protection, everything in plain text, unknown number of third hands it is being passed through, physical artifact that could be lost, misdirected , stolen ,etc. permanent record of all key information that just screams to identify thief's attention. Not wise at all in terms of security for your data...

how in a world paper is more safe and secure??
Paper in the USPS system is more safe and secure than electrons in cyberspace. This is an indisputable fact. 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

tealeaves wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:50 pm Has anyone here actually been notified by the IRS that they were late in filing and proved otherwise by showing the certified mail receipt?

And (dumb question) how would the IRS know that the certified mail was for the 1040 (and not a holiday card)?
Great questions. Here are the great answers. The IRS has stated that proof of certified mailing to them is sufficient to justify timely filing. We've discussed many times that sending a blank envelope would be silly, but meet their requirement. We don't make the rules. They do. 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
palanzo
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by palanzo »

FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:28 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:25 pm
simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:46 pm
VictoriaF wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:42 am I filed my 2019 Federal and state income taxes on May 1st, 2020. Both required refunds to my bank account. I filed on paper and mailed them using USPS certified mail.

Today's status is as following:
- A couple days ago, I received a refund of my state income tax.
- My IRS Get Transcript account shows that I have NOT filed the 2019 tax.
- The USPS tracking tool shows that the Federal tax has been delivered on May 19th, 2020.
- The IRS advises that a paper refund is considered "late" after 6 weeks from the date of mailing.
- My refund is now more than 6 weeks late.

I am interested in others' experiences. Should I wait a couple more weeks? When should I assume a problem and call the IRS?

Victoria
they _may_ get to it this year, depending on how bad second (and third, and subsequent) waves of COVID would be . May is the key word (or may not). so you are not looking at weeks here..
It is better to e-file especially in circumstances such as we have this year.
Why?
For the very reasons the poster above asked about.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

8foot7 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:50 pm Not to mention a fat-finger typo or OCR mistake that picks up a 8 instead of a 0 and now the IRS thinks you made $180,000 last year and not $100,000 and so where's their cash? One response to a CP-2000 from a transcription error costs you more in time and aggravation that you save not e-filing.
How many reports have we seen of this "problem?"
Of course it also costs money to send things certified mail, as well as time (which I assume has some value to most people) to take your returns to the post office to get them send that way...

All to save $20 and some cognitive headwinds? :oops:
You seem to be assuming that those of us who prefer to send paper returns via certified mail are doing it to save $20. I have no idea what the "savings" are, but my actions have had absolutely nothing to do with saving $20. 8-)
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:37 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:28 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:25 pm
simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:46 pm
VictoriaF wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:42 am I filed my 2019 Federal and state income taxes on May 1st, 2020. Both required refunds to my bank account. I filed on paper and mailed them using USPS certified mail.

Today's status is as following:
- A couple days ago, I received a refund of my state income tax.
- My IRS Get Transcript account shows that I have NOT filed the 2019 tax.
- The USPS tracking tool shows that the Federal tax has been delivered on May 19th, 2020.
- The IRS advises that a paper refund is considered "late" after 6 weeks from the date of mailing.
- My refund is now more than 6 weeks late.

I am interested in others' experiences. Should I wait a couple more weeks? When should I assume a problem and call the IRS?

Victoria
they _may_ get to it this year, depending on how bad second (and third, and subsequent) waves of COVID would be . May is the key word (or may not). so you are not looking at weeks here..
It is better to e-file especially in circumstances such as we have this year.
Why?
For the very reasons the poster above asked about.
There have been a lot of "posters above." You need to be more specific, or your response has no value.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
palanzo
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by palanzo »

FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:49 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:37 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:28 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:25 pm
simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:46 pm

they _may_ get to it this year, depending on how bad second (and third, and subsequent) waves of COVID would be . May is the key word (or may not). so you are not looking at weeks here..
It is better to e-file especially in circumstances such as we have this year.
Why?
For the very reasons the poster above asked about.
There have been a lot of "posters above." You need to be more specific, or your response has no value.
The post is embedded above.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:57 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:49 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:37 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:28 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:25 pm

It is better to e-file especially in circumstances such as we have this year.
Why?
For the very reasons the poster above asked about.
There have been a lot of "posters above." You need to be more specific, or your response has no value.
The post is embedded above.
Above what? You really need to be more specific.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
palanzo
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by palanzo »

FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:59 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:57 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:49 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:37 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:28 pm

Why?
For the very reasons the poster above asked about.
There have been a lot of "posters above." You need to be more specific, or your response has no value.
The post is embedded above.
Above what? You really need to be more specific.
If you look at the replies they quote the OP. If you can't see it it's also the first post of this thread.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:01 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:59 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:57 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:49 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:37 pm

For the very reasons the poster above asked about.
There have been a lot of "posters above." You need to be more specific, or your response has no value.
The post is embedded above.
Above what? You really need to be more specific.
If you look at the replies they quote the OP. If you can't see it it's also the first post of this thread.
None of which supports the contention that it is "better to efile." efiling saves the IRS and states money. It does nothing for me. If some people want to send more $$$ to their states and the IRS during the year than they owe, and than want to complain that they aren't getting their money back, than they have other problems that I really don't share. It's very simple. Just don't give the government more money than you need to.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
palanzo
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by palanzo »

FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:06 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:01 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:59 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:57 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:49 pm

There have been a lot of "posters above." You need to be more specific, or your response has no value.
The post is embedded above.
Above what? You really need to be more specific.
If you look at the replies they quote the OP. If you can't see it it's also the first post of this thread.
None of which supports the contention that it is "better to efile." efiling saves the IRS and states money. It does nothing for me. If some people want to send more $$$ to their states and the IRS during the year than they owe, and than want to complain that they aren't getting their money back, than they have other problems that I really don't share. It's very simple. Just don't give the government more money than you need to.
And those that file paper returns like yourself are being subsidized by all taxpayers. The additional costs of processing paper returns has to come from somewhere.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:12 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:06 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:01 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:59 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:57 pm

The post is embedded above.
Above what? You really need to be more specific.
If you look at the replies they quote the OP. If you can't see it it's also the first post of this thread.
None of which supports the contention that it is "better to efile." efiling saves the IRS and states money. It does nothing for me. If some people want to send more $$$ to their states and the IRS during the year than they owe, and than want to complain that they aren't getting their money back, than they have other problems that I really don't share. It's very simple. Just don't give the government more money than you need to.
And those that file paper returns like yourself are being subsidized by all taxpayers. The additional costs of processing paper returns has to come from somewhere.
Thank you for paying the additional costs that I've been generating. :sharebeer
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
simas
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by simas »

FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:30 pm
simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:53 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:48 pm
Coburn wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:10 pm
FIREchief wrote: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:19 pm What are these consequences you're talking about? :confused
Are you being flippant? Assuming you're not, one major consequence of filing paper forms is the sheer backlog the IRS is dealing with this year. When will they get them all done?...who can say?

In the OP's case: you will have to wait, however long that is.

Me: eFile all the way.

It's 2020...people! New decade...maybe you should reevaluate how you do things.
Not at all "flippant." "When will they get them all done? ….who can say?" Why in the heck would I care???!!! I couldn't care less about what the IRS does after I place my (fully paid) paper return in certified mail to them. If others want to send their info out in electronic format into cyber space with full faith in some third party to get it done, than good for them! 8-) Why does it matter that it's 2020 (or 2030, or 2040....). As far as I know, there is only one confirmed method of filing an IRS return with zero risk of failure to timely file. It's a paper return sent via certified mail.
understand that you are comparing
a) few seconds (or less than that) electronic transmission of encrypted data over secure channel established between your computer and IRS server with instant and immediate confirmation that it is received.
with
b) writing EVEYRTHING about yourself (name, address, social security numbers, financial information, etc) on a effing piece of paper like it is 15th century again. zero encryption, zero protection, everything in plain text, unknown number of third hands it is being passed through, physical artifact that could be lost, misdirected , stolen ,etc. permanent record of all key information that just screams to identify thief's attention. Not wise at all in terms of security for your data...

how in a world paper is more safe and secure??
Paper in the USPS system is more safe and secure than electrons in cyberspace. This is an indisputable fact. 8-)
prove it to me :) . I already posted my notes but may be in some galaxy far , far ,far, your arguments may make sense. you state it is more safe and secure -> put up or … :)
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:15 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:30 pm
simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:53 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:48 pm
Coburn wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:10 pm

Are you being flippant? Assuming you're not, one major consequence of filing paper forms is the sheer backlog the IRS is dealing with this year. When will they get them all done?...who can say?

In the OP's case: you will have to wait, however long that is.

Me: eFile all the way.

It's 2020...people! New decade...maybe you should reevaluate how you do things.
Not at all "flippant." "When will they get them all done? ….who can say?" Why in the heck would I care???!!! I couldn't care less about what the IRS does after I place my (fully paid) paper return in certified mail to them. If others want to send their info out in electronic format into cyber space with full faith in some third party to get it done, than good for them! 8-) Why does it matter that it's 2020 (or 2030, or 2040....). As far as I know, there is only one confirmed method of filing an IRS return with zero risk of failure to timely file. It's a paper return sent via certified mail.
understand that you are comparing
a) few seconds (or less than that) electronic transmission of encrypted data over secure channel established between your computer and IRS server with instant and immediate confirmation that it is received.
with
b) writing EVEYRTHING about yourself (name, address, social security numbers, financial information, etc) on a effing piece of paper like it is 15th century again. zero encryption, zero protection, everything in plain text, unknown number of third hands it is being passed through, physical artifact that could be lost, misdirected , stolen ,etc. permanent record of all key information that just screams to identify thief's attention. Not wise at all in terms of security for your data...

how in a world paper is more safe and secure??
Paper in the USPS system is more safe and secure than electrons in cyberspace. This is an indisputable fact. 8-)
prove it to me :) . I already posted my notes but may be in some galaxy far , far ,far, your arguments may make sense. you state it is more safe and secure -> put up or … :)
Right back at you brother! 8-) Prove to ME that USPS certified mail is more prone to hacking than me sending my tax return out into cyberspace hoping it will arrive at the IRS and my state in a secure manner. Didn't TurboTax have a hack just a few years ago? :confused
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
palanzo
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by palanzo »

FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:15 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:12 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:06 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:01 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:59 pm

Above what? You really need to be more specific.
If you look at the replies they quote the OP. If you can't see it it's also the first post of this thread.
None of which supports the contention that it is "better to efile." efiling saves the IRS and states money. It does nothing for me. If some people want to send more $$$ to their states and the IRS during the year than they owe, and than want to complain that they aren't getting their money back, than they have other problems that I really don't share. It's very simple. Just don't give the government more money than you need to.
And those that file paper returns like yourself are being subsidized by all taxpayers. The additional costs of processing paper returns has to come from somewhere.
Thank you for paying the additional costs that I've been generating. :sharebeer
I don't think that is funny at all.

I was trying to help. Good luck to you.
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FIREchief
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by FIREchief »

palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:27 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:15 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:12 pm
FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:06 pm
palanzo wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:01 pm

If you look at the replies they quote the OP. If you can't see it it's also the first post of this thread.
None of which supports the contention that it is "better to efile." efiling saves the IRS and states money. It does nothing for me. If some people want to send more $$$ to their states and the IRS during the year than they owe, and than want to complain that they aren't getting their money back, than they have other problems that I really don't share. It's very simple. Just don't give the government more money than you need to.
And those that file paper returns like yourself are being subsidized by all taxpayers. The additional costs of processing paper returns has to come from somewhere.
Thank you for paying the additional costs that I've been generating. :sharebeer
I don't think that is funny at all.

I was trying to help. Good luck to you.
The IRS isn't losing any money on me. Trust me on this. :happy
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by LadyGeek »

The discussion is getting derailed on e-file vs. paper returns. Please stay on-topic, which is:
VictoriaF wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:42 am I filed my 2019 Federal and state income taxes on May 1st, 2020. Both required refunds to my bank account. I filed on paper and mailed them using USPS certified mail.

Today's status is as following:
- A couple days ago, I received a refund of my state income tax.
- My IRS Get Transcript account shows that I have NOT filed the 2019 tax.
- The USPS tracking tool shows that the Federal tax has been delivered on May 19th, 2020.
- The IRS advises that a paper refund is considered "late" after 6 weeks from the date of mailing.
- My refund is now more than 6 weeks late.

I am interested in others' experiences. Should I wait a couple more weeks? When should I assume a problem and call the IRS?

Victoria
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OnTrack
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by OnTrack »

Hyperchicken wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:55 pm
TheDDC wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:47 pm Okay I’m looking here for the unicorn “free e-filing options” from the IRS themselves. I see nothing that fits my situation:

https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/

So, again I say that filing by paper is still the lowest cost option and no, there is no reason to pay the federal government more than what is due.

-TheDDC
https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/be ... able-forms

Thank me later. 8-)
I was going to use free fillable forms this year, but 1040SR is not supported. :(
https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/li ... able-forms
OnTrack
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by OnTrack »

TheDDC wrote: Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:47 pm Okay I’m looking here for the unicorn “free e-filing options” from the IRS themselves. I see nothing that fits my situation:

https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/

So, again I say that filing by paper is still the lowest cost option and no, there is no reason to pay the federal government more than what is due.

-TheDDC
"Even though TurboTax could tell we were eligible to file for free, the company never told us about the truly free version.
It turns out that if you start the process from TurboTax.com, it’s impossible to find the truly free version. The company itself admits this."
https://www.propublica.org/article/turb ... your-taxes
talzara
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by talzara »

FIREchief wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:47 pm
8foot7 wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:50 pm Not to mention a fat-finger typo or OCR mistake that picks up a 8 instead of a 0 and now the IRS thinks you made $180,000 last year and not $100,000 and so where's their cash? One response to a CP-2000 from a transcription error costs you more in time and aggravation that you save not e-filing.
How many reports have we seen of this "problem?"
If the IRS typist entered "180,000" instead of "100,000" on the total income line, then the arithmetic would not add up. This would get flagged by the computer, and the error would be corrected. No CP-2000 would be mailed out.
Hyperchicken
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by Hyperchicken »

OnTrack wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:08 pm I was going to use free fillable forms this year, but 1040SR is not supported. :(
https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/li ... able-forms
SR is identical to the "plain" 1040 except larger font size, more clear formatting, and some tiny changes. The difference is inconsequential when you look at it at the computer screen.
talzara
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by talzara »

simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:53 pm understand that you are comparing
a) few seconds (or less than that) electronic transmission of encrypted data over secure channel established between your computer and IRS server with instant and immediate confirmation that it is received.
Individual taxpayers cannot e-file directly with the IRS, as they can with the Canada Revenue Agency.

American taxpayers must e-file with a private tax software company. Until recently, the IRS had an understanding with the private companies that the IRS would not provide e-filing directly to individual taxpayers. The understanding was cancelled in late 2019 after some muckraking reporting from ProPublica. However, the IRS has taken no steps yet to provide e-filing to taxpayers.
simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:53 pm b) writing EVEYRTHING about yourself (name, address, social security numbers, financial information, etc) on a effing piece of paper like it is 15th century again. zero encryption, zero protection, everything in plain text, unknown number of third hands it is being passed through, physical artifact that could be lost, misdirected , stolen ,etc. permanent record of all key information that just screams to identify thief's attention. Not wise at all in terms of security for your data...
Paper tax returns are processed only by IRS employees. No private companies are involved.

If you use the US Postal Service to deliver the tax return to the IRS, then the security of the mail is protected by law. If you use Fedex or UPS, then you rely on any guarantees that they provide.
simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:56 pm so people who believe 'I will not trust my information to this new 20th century electronic technology thingy' actually understand that their information arrives to IRS electronically from the various parties involved (their brokerages, their employees, their mortgage holders, etc) ?
Brokerages and large banks usually transmit data directly to the IRS, without going through a third-party provider.

Smaller banks use a third-party provider, but it's usually the same one they use for online banking. It does not increase your exposure to an additional third-party that did not already have your data.

Many employers use a third-party provider, but it's usually the same one they use to handle payroll. It is also possible to e-file a W-2 directly with the Social Security Administration, which passes the data along to the IRS.
simas
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Re: Federal tax refund is late

Post by simas »

talzara wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:29 pm
simas wrote: Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:53 pm understand that you are comparing
a) few seconds (or less than that) electronic transmission of encrypted data over secure channel established between your computer and IRS server with instant and immediate confirmation that it is received.
Individual taxpayers cannot e-file directly with the IRS, as they can with the Canada Revenue Agency.

American taxpayers must e-file with a private tax software company. Until recently, the IRS had an understanding with the private companies that the IRS would not provide e-filing directly to individual taxpayers. The understanding was cancelled in late 2019 after some muckraking reporting from ProPublica. However, the IRS has taken no steps yet to provide e-filing to taxpayers.
I decided to remove my response - I think we are in off topic and arguing paper vs electronic security vs answering the question from OP.
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