Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
RedTailedHawk
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:04 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by RedTailedHawk »

Some posters have suggested that a prestigious university is not guarantee for success and a high quality university will suffice. I agree with this. Given any "decent" school, it's really your son who will determine how much value he will extract from his education. I did not go a prestigious school and I don't feel it hindered my career. And when it was my turn to hire engineers, we were looking for things like current capability, potential and ability to get along with others. Where the degree came from wasn't a make or break item, especially after having a few years on your resume.

Some posters also recommended getting a CE instead of a CS degree. I also agree with this (disclaimer: I have a BSCE). A CS degree is not a bad thing but for me the CE program taught me more of the fundamental, the underlying HW that the SW runs on. It helped me tremendously in my career. It made it easier for me to perform and grow as an engineer because I knew how and why things work instead of just what it does.
MrDrinkingWater
Posts: 277
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:30 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by MrDrinkingWater »

If your son can get into University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana, that would be the best financial deal, and likely close to home. I think the ideal college experience for many students is for the student to be at a university that is 90 to 120 miles from the student's hometown, but only if the student or parent can afford it. The benefit of being that far away from home, but not too far, is for the student to really feel independent and on their own. I think a two-hour driving distance is sufficiently long to keep most students at college most weekends (good for both social development and studying), and keep most parents at home most weekends.

If staying at home with the folks and being a commuter student at a good-to-great university becomes a financially necessary choice to make, I think the student and parent should seriously consider that option. I know a lot of great people who affordably got their education that way.

You and your son might consider Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana. I see Purdue on your list. It may be sufficiently close to your location in Illinois to be a great choice. Even at the out-of-state tuition price, Purdue is a pretty good deal, but will not beat the in-state rate your son can get in Illinois. Like many large universities, your son might learn a lot his freshman year and realize that he might prefer to pursue a major other than Computer Science. Like the University of Illinois, Purdue offers many different respected degree programs on their West Lafayette campus.

Your list has many great schools. I guess I'm leaning toward you not having to spend too much for your son to get a very good undergraduate education. If your son can graduate in four to five years with a solid undergraduate degree from a great school (a lot of students need more than 4 years to complete a degree) with little or no student loan debt, he'll be off to a great start.

Good luck with choosing a university or college.
The Broz
Posts: 242
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:09 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by The Broz »

mega317 wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:06 pm
The Broz wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 5:33 pm
mega317 wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:19 am The first thing I would do is choose a part or parts of the country he wants to live. And what type of school/campus. Narrow this list down to like 10-15. There can't be a huge overlap in people considering USC and Rensselaer. Or BYU and UNC. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
Unless you have the money to be able to pay for basically any school, this is terrible advise. He needs an education bottom line, and if you don't have the means to send him away to anyplace he chooses (i.e. you never have to ask 'how much?' for anything), I think it is horribly irresponsible to pay double or triple what you need to because the campus has nice weather, the girls are pretty, there's a nice lawn to study or whatever the reason is. Unless he gets into an absolute top tier school, the brand name on the diploma is not going to matter much. If he busts his butt in school, that will get him a decent first job. If he busts his butt in that job for a bit, he'll be able to to write his own ticket.
If money is a concern at all, he can go to community college for a bit and transfer to an in-state school. He can live at home to save on housing. I would just caution you to stay away from the mentality that he should be able to spend money he doesn't have for "the college experience".
My two cents.
Did you read my post? I didn't say anything about paying double or triple for nice weather or anything else. I advocated for Champaign.
I read the part where you suggest letting him choose what part of the country he wants to live in, as quoted above. I think that should have nothing to do with the decision at all.
multiham
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:28 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by multiham »

gr7070 wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:30 pm
multiham wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:39 am My replies are never very popular on this subject

Just went through the same type of search with my son who is in his freshmen year studying business.

1. I told him Exactly how much I had saved in the 529 plan and if he went above that, it was going to be covered by loans he would need to pay
2. Had him research the schools and come up with a list of 5 or 6 schools that he was interested in and that he had at least a chance of getting into.
3. I let him figure out what was important to him in terms of location, size, sports, culture, etc. I believe this is critical
4. Visited his top 5 schools. He knew instantly what school he wanted to go to when he took the tour. I'm there to separate the schools marketing from reality.

Many on here will tell you to go to the in-state school, save the $ for an advanced degree. My goal was to have him be happy and to set him up for future success. So far his grades are higher than what he earned in high school, he has adjusted well to moving 750 miles away from home, and his confidence level has increased. His requirements were school in the South with warm weather, about 20,000 students, newer buildings with great technology, and great sports for him to watch. He checked with the career center prior to acceptance to make sure the type of companies he wanted to work for recruited and hired from this school. He couldn't be happier.

My advice is really let you son own this and come back to you with a list. Ask a few questions based on his list, but let him own getting the answers. Its so easy to just step in and do all the work, but the only way they learn is by doing.
1. Where did he choose, curious?

2. I very much like this; though, personally, I'd apply some loving pressure to consider finances in the decision.
He is a very happy student at Clemson University in South Carolina. I am very proud of the young adult he has become.
His "budget" really benefitted from the years of a bull market. When I started saving for him when he was 1, I had the goal of covering 50% of the cost of an in-state public University/College. I kept to my saving plan even when it was obvious that I had already hit the original goal. This really showed me the power of savings over time!
User avatar
Vulcan
Posts: 2975
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:43 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Vulcan »

mrspock wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:45 pm
Vulcan wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:37 am
mrspock wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 11:02 am 2. Consider computer engineering vs computer science, a bit broader, a bit more career options and they train you how to “think” as well as impart knowledge.
I beg to differ. Computer engineering is a more hardware-oriented major that does not delve as deep into the soft side as computer science does. It is a less desirable major, and is therefore an easier one to get into in those schools that offer both CS and CE.

And the job prospects for the hardware part of it are not as attractive as the ones in software.
I think you have an outdated or ill informed idea of what computer engineering is, and the curriculum. Computer engineering combines the knowledge of computer science and electrical engineering into a discipline which is comfortable working in either or both at the same time.

A major difference is less emphasis on liberal arts, as these are often swapped out for “hard” engineering coursework, and broadness of studies. I took nearly all the same comp sci courses as my comp sci counterparts, as the degree is nearly a full year longer my school, and nearly two years worth more credits.

As for it not being in high demand by students, there’s a simple reason: it’s much (much) harder, and more work :) . From an employer point of view, we hold the degree in just as high esteem as comp sci, comp eng folks just have a broader selection of jobs to choose from (hardware and software spectrum). I’m not aware of anyone in comp eng who was passed over in favor of a comp sci grad.

Comp Eng at (most schools) is certainly more work, and more difficult, but worth it IMO.
Liberal arts emphasis of CS degrees? That's a new one.

"A full year longer" BS degree?
Which university is that?
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
Northern Flicker
Posts: 15288
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:29 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Northern Flicker »

State schools with the strongest CS programs would include:

Cal-Berkeley
Illinois-Urbana
Washington
Texas at Austin
Wisconsin-Madison
UCLA

But there are many other very good ones.
IowaFarmBoy
Posts: 1235
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:19 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by IowaFarmBoy »

I don't think this has been mentioned but take a look at Iowa State and Iowa, particularly if he doesn't get into UIUC. They offer substantial discounts to Illinois students with strong scores. It's very easy to get the cost to a level where it is competitive with UIUC. Iowa State has a strong engineering bent, Iowa's computer science and engineering will be smaller and a little less competitive and more friendly.

We are also Illinois residents and have two daughters. One went to Illinois State in Actuarial Science, the other went to Iowa for Computer Engineering. Both were strong students and had great test scores and both received significant merit money at those schools. Almost no scholarship money at UIUC. The Actuarial Science program at Illinois State is outstanding, but overall, the university is not geared toward the technical programs and admission scores are lower. Iowa has a good engineering program- probably not on the level of a UIUC, Iowa State or Purdue, but it worked very well for our daughter. A little friendlier and less cut-throat.
dixdak
Posts: 212
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:30 am
Location: Chicago

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by dixdak »

I recall a similar post 4 years ago by "Timmy". He had a bright high school junior with near perfect grades and test scores with an interest in CS and STEM.. The next three years we heard about the journey of applications, campus visits, and decisions or deferred decisions. The applications included MIT, U of Chicago, Caltech, Stanford, as well as local "safety schools" such as Notre Dame, U of Illinois, Valpo and Purdue. Skip the end, he failed to get accepted into the so called elite, and ultimately selected Notre Dame over U of I. During this 3 year helicopter trip, we heard a very involved dad who speculated about having the son go to U of Chicago and do the triple major of Math or Physics, and toss in Economics and Music. Gee, thanks pop.

I have observed a few friends and relatives who as high school students decided on CS as a college major. The kid who spent his high school career in his room doing programming stuff, skipping sports and social outings, not even making honor roll as a freshman- is now a programmer for Microsoft. The kids who liked playing video games and were good at setting up mom's phone, therefore tech savants- are now under employed or in business school.

Keep in mind its selecting a college to attend, not purchasing a vacation condo. The weather is always fine in a library.

My son had the same grades and scores as yours. He wanted to go to engineering school. We are Illinois residents. U of I, Texas, Michigan and Northwestern were applied to, but not accepted. U of Iowa provided excellent financial aid, tremendous the final year and was an easy four hours away.
Stormbringer
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 7:07 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Stormbringer »

ualdriver wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:01 am I realize there are many successful professionals in this industry on this forum. I was wondering what we should be looking for in a Computer Science program? What should we be thinking about? What can we use as discriminators, besides the obvious GPA, ACT, SAT scores that will get a kid admitted in the first place? Should he simply be trying to get into the most competitive school that will take him?
With the possible exception of a handful of top-tier schools like Stanford, my experience in the field suggests that the university he attends is not very predictive of career success.

And even if gets into Stanford, the decisive factor in his success is likely to be that he is the kind of kid that gets accepted into Stanford, not that he actually attended Stanford.
“The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.” - Albert Allen Bartlett
Elysium
Posts: 4119
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:22 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Elysium »

As someone in nearly identical position as OP, I am keenly following this thread for responses. I do not wish to hijack this thread but will offer the background for comparison.

My son is a HS junior with interest in CS, his SAT score is above 1500, he hasn't given an ACT yet but I believe will do so soon. The problem is his GPA, which is a mix of A's and B's with all IB courses in his junior year. I think his weighted GPA might end up being close to 4.0 by end of junior year, no guarantees. He is someone who likes to study only things that interests or motivates him, and not for the sake of improving GPA even when he knows that is what will help him secure better colleges.

We have ruled out any top tier admissions, we do not think lack of consistency in GPA can be made up with high SAT/ACT scores. Besides, we do not think he will do well in a top tier since he would almost certainly not do the work just for the sake of getting grades unless it motivates him. This will be a problem even in 2nd tier schools, but hopefully he'll do enough to get at least a B+ average if the curriculum isn't too intense.

We are in Virginia where there aren't too many strong CS programs, the flagship school of UVA is nearly impossible at this point getting in with GPA below 4.3 cut off needed. He could very well get into Virginia Tech, but that doesn't interest him. Many other possibly fit schools like Purdue, U Pitt, UIUC, U Mich, UW doesn't interest him either. Same goes for Georgia Tech (which is a school with intense study). He isn't interested in social scene in places Indiana, Pitt, Chicago, or Blacksburg, VA. Instead his desire is to go across the country to CA.

He has his goals set on schools in the UC system, such as Berkeley, UCLA, Cal Tech, possibly others. He is also open to UT Austin for some reason, may be warm weather is what is attracting him.

I am not sure the UC system will accept him, especially the top three are possibly beyond his reach. We are trying to pursuade him to lower expectation and try some of the schools in mid-west, east coast, or in-state. His logic is that if he wish to be in CS then Silicon Valley is where he wants to be, and in order to be in Silicon Valley he has better chance if he is already at a school in CA, instead of graduating elsewhere and trying to re-locate. I just don't know what are the chances for an out of state student with less than perfect scores to get into a CS program in the UC system. We are just waiting for him to close out his junior year and figure out by himself since he is very opinionated on this.
Last edited by Elysium on Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
KyleAAA
Posts: 9497
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by KyleAAA »

You’d be better served looking at where top companies recruit from. It correlates with quality of education, but not perfectly. In your example, nobody in their right mind would choose the University of Chicago over Georgia Tech regardless of cost if their goal was to maximize academic reputation, name recognition, and hireability. Georgia Tech is vastly superior on all fronts. All the biggies recruit from Georgia Tech while Chicago, not so much. If you want to stay in Illinois, Champaigne-Urbana is head and shoulders above the rest. I’ve hired several engineers from there and they have a great reputation.

Also keep in mind that top 10 schools are HARD. There will be many weeks where you’ll sleep very little, and not because you’re out partying. You’re often better off being an A+ student in a tier 2 school than a C student at tier 1. At a tier 1 school, everybody you’ll meet was the smartest kid in their high school and you’ll feel like an idiot, even if you are objectively top 10%.

Lastly, keep in mind that pay for top engineers at top companies makes the differences in costs between those colleges completely meaningless. If the aptitude is there, go for it.
fwellimort
Posts: 890
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:41 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by fwellimort »

KyleAAA wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:39 am Also keep in mind that top 10 schools are HARD. There will be many weeks where you’ll sleep very little, and not because you’re out partying. You’re often better off being an A+ student in a tier 2 school than a C student at tier 1. At a tier 1 school, everybody you’ll meet was the smartest kid in their high school and you’ll feel like an idiot, even if you are objectively top 10%.
^ I can attest to this. Had experience with both reputable state school honors program and Columbia Univ. It's night and day.
Honors courses in state school were free A's while regular courses in Columbia Univ (not even honors courses) took many tens/hundreds of hours and that was the 'minimum' for the course since everyone at least did the 'required' work.
That said, it's also hard to fail at either schools. Grade inflation is really weird. And yes, you can tailor your courses at either schools to learn next to nothing (unfortunate) <-- which is good at getting you into the workforce but such a waste of money from educational standpoint.

Personally, I recommend attending an instate school at low cost OR a school with a scholarship that prices in the cost to near in state level unless your child is going to the Stanfords somehow.
U of I Champaign, Brigham Young, IL State University, Univ. of IL Chicago
Heck. Brigham Young is a whopping $5,790 in tuition. I assume the pay on the job upon graduation at Brigham/IL-State Univ/U of IL Chicago to all largely be the same.
People don't differentiate by rank this to rank that. People know a handful of schools and that's it. They know Stanford but they ain't going to know the difference between Brigham Young and Univ of IL Chicago.

Brigham last updated 2014. Bachelor: $75,000 - $85,000 so I would assume today, it is around Bachelor: ~$85,000
https://cs.byu.edu/our-students
Not bad of an investment for a whopping $5,790. Why would you pay ~$50,000 for most other schools. Not every school is a top tier school that is well worth its cost.
That said, Brigham is a Christian school so if your child isn't into all that... I change my course. And according to Brigham reddit, Computer Science is a second class citizen but I would argue such will also be the case at places like IL State Univ/U of IL Chicago/etc.

And look, if your child really wants to attend a more reputable school, tell him:
1. Get a better ACT score.
2. Do well (basically 4.0) senior year of high school
3. Do well (basically 4.0) first two semesters of college and let 3 professors love you + 1 counselor (take at least Calc 3, Chem I, Physics I, II)
4. Transfer out after first year. Transfer friendly schools include WuStl / Vanderilt / USC / Notre Dame (not sure if CS accepts transfers) / Emory. Many of those schools accept ~25% transfers and the average transfer student is a B+ student. That said, at least privates give financial aid if eligible unlike OOS.
(and yes, transfers to those schools are very easy relative to their ranks -those schools play the ranking system quite heavily-. Outside those schools, the top schools are near impossible to transfer into outside 3-2 programs which I don't think is ever worth the cost)

If he can't even get a 4.0 at Brigham/IL-State Univ/U of IL Chicago, then you won't need to worry. Very simple.
There. Problem solved.

And to those claiming where you go to colleges don't matter, it is what you make of it.
I do agree yet dislike that argument.
I know 5 CS friends who are very bright. I would say, if they were able to attend a 'better school', their lives could have been largely different.
1 got a $145,000 job at Amazon. 3 got $50~75,000 starting job (1 of them was a full ride student -currently getting paid ~$92,000 after 3 years in the industry!). 1 is struggling with a minimum wage start up due to Visa [internationals have it real hard if they can't get a job at a major firm and are basically abused].
I would say the full ride student was above the average CS student at Columbia for sure. Easily in the top percentiles. Heck, probably able to compete well against the very best of Columbia CS undergrad.

My average CS friends at Columbia started with a ~$155,000 (almost all went to Google).
And 'birds of the feather, flock together'. The 5 CS friends have no motivation to earn more. The latter (my CS friends at Columbia) -and me- have pressure to earn more.
This "where you go doesn't matter" while somewhat true does not factor in how much environment plays a role. You can become successful living in the hoods. Just get a good GPA and test scores (and good extracurricular -with even more 'lenience' overall'). But let's be real. Those from Exeter has a better chance getting into a reputable school because environment also plays a role even if courses are also 'harder' at Exeter.
So many people here under-estimate environment. Yes, there are greatly motivated students that can succeed anywhere but they are not everyone. And it sure didn't seem that to me to 4 of the 5 friends.

Anyways, like everyone else says. After a few years in the industry, where you go to school doesn't matter.
I will agree with that. However, I will stress not to under-estimate the notion of, "birds of the feather, flock together".
If all your peers are working at IBM, then you won't think much working at IBM.
If all your peers are working at Google, then you will question yourself if you don't work at Google.
That.. that psychology. Is very very big. Keep all this in mind while you decide.
Also, outside the Harvards, MITs, Stanfords, CalTechs, CMUs, Berkeleys, etc., recruiters don't care which school you attend. Everything in the middle is just 'in the middle'. I'm sorry but that's reality. Whether you spend over $56,500 on tuition at Southern Methodist or $5,790 at Brigham, no one will care.

And I hope Bogleheads here will come to disagree with my post. Also, please don't do a 6 month boot camp option. Please. My company without inside referrals will never consider a boot camp grad for even an interview. Bootcamp isn't looked well upon in the industry anymore and those that make through the program are already college grads.
Last edited by fwellimort on Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Topic Author
ualdriver
Posts: 734
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:07 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by ualdriver »

I’m still here, reading and learning. You all have continued to provide us with excellent information. I very much appreciate everyone’s comments. We’ll be here listening until the thread dies out.....

There has been one recurring theme (of many) that I would like to address- CE vs. CS. We have visited two universities so far and we have discussed CE. Although I am sure it is a fantastic degree with tremendous opportunity, CE doesn’t seem like something he is interested in at this point. We have had discussions with CE professionals at both schools we visited and he wants to pursue CS. Maybe that will change in the future as many of you mention.
User avatar
Dan-in-Virginia
Posts: 841
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:33 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Dan-in-Virginia »

My daughter chose Virginia Tech, a nationally ranked engineering school, over UVA for Computer Science. Better campus culture, food, and strong engineering structure for teaching computer science. She can continue her graduate work at their new $1B CS-centric innovation campus next to DC which will be built out by the time she finishes undergrad. Another factor is CEED, which is a support structure for engineers. They have a LLC dorm for male and female engineers, a 5-week preview program in the summer for incoming freshmen engineers, to get them acclimated for engineering coursework and the campus. They have societies and sororities focused on women in engineering as well.

From my perspective, it is a very safe campus (they learned from the 2007 event). The cost is excellent for in-state. And the internship and recruiting is from DC/NOVA’s top employers. I will be encouraging her to get cyber and BIT minors to round her out, given the demand for all these skill sets/knowledge.

CS is broader than CE. I wouldn’t choose CE unless you have a passion and plan for a specific area.
Normchad
Posts: 5630
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:20 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Normchad »

Gray wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:59 pm My daughter chose Virginia Tech, a nationally ranked engineering school, over UVA for Computer Science. Better campus culture, food, and strong engineering structure for teaching computer science. She can continue her graduate work at their new $1B CS-centric innovation campus next to DC which will be built out by the time she finishes undergrad. Another factor is CEED, which is a support structure for engineers. They have a LLC dorm for male and female engineers, a 5-week preview program in the summer for incoming freshmen engineers, to get them acclimated for engineering coursework and the campus. They have societies and sororities focused on women in engineering as well.

From my perspective, it is a very safe campus (they learned from the 2007 event). The cost is excellent for in-state. And the internship and recruiting is from DC/NOVA’s top employers. I will be encouraging her to get cyber and BIT minors to round her out, given the demand for all these skill sets/knowledge.

CS is broader than CE. I wouldn’t choose CE unless you have a passion and plan for a specific area.
I recruit at several schools, including Virginia Tech. I did not attend VT, so,I don’t really have a dog in this fight.

It is objectively true that VT has excellent food.

One thing that catches my eye about VT for CS, is that it seems to be an incredibly nurturing environment. Much more so than any other school I go to. I’ve been going for years, and it seems that I see mostly the same faculty from year to year, and they seem to know most of the students by name. It’s a very different vibe from where I went to school.

VT, in general, I like it. I like the big state schools, and it qualifies as that. But it is on the smaller side of them, and thus it feels more homey there, and shouldn’t overwhelm some students like a Penn State might.

Virginia has a ton of great schools. VT is certainly one of them. (And of course, our child opted instead to go out of state).
ljb1234
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:59 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by ljb1234 »

Faculty member at one of schools on your list here...

Lots of good suggestions in this thread.

I agree that a Tier 1 school will get your foot in the door when looking for a job after graduation more easily. But after a few years it does not matter as much where you went to school. You have to be able to constantly stay up to date and learn new technologies. That will help separate you from the rest.

Your child has to be comfortable with the school. When they visit, see if they can meet some students from the current freshman class and ask them questions. They will tell you the truth about the school!

See if your child can sit it in a freshman class to see what its like in college.

Ask about support for new students. Mentoring, TAs, lab assistants, academic advisors, faculty advisors, etc. It is a very high stress environment and it helps if they have multiple avenues for help. Ask about mental health support on campus. This is a big deal these days. The students are pushed and can be under stress. I am on the lookout for this.

How often are undergrad classes are taught by grad/PhD students instead of the faculty instructor?

Ask about groups, clubs, and other extracurricular activities.

The biggest skill that freshman lack is time management, not a technical skill. This is the first time don't have their parents telling them what to do every day. Probably the biggest reason students struggle in academics. They don't know how to manage their time.

All students should take advantage of office hours and introduce themselves. They usually don't. It does help if your instructor knows your name and recognizes you.

That's about it. PM me if you have specific questions and I'll try to help.

regards,
User avatar
Dan-in-Virginia
Posts: 841
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:33 am
Location: Virginia

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Dan-in-Virginia »

Normchad wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 3:05 pm
Gray wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 1:59 pm My daughter chose Virginia Tech, a nationally ranked engineering school, over UVA for Computer Science. Better campus culture, food, and strong engineering structure for teaching computer science. She can continue her graduate work at their new $1B CS-centric innovation campus next to DC which will be built out by the time she finishes undergrad. Another factor is CEED, which is a support structure for engineers. They have a LLC dorm for male and female engineers, a 5-week preview program in the summer for incoming freshmen engineers, to get them acclimated for engineering coursework and the campus. They have societies and sororities focused on women in engineering as well.

From my perspective, it is a very safe campus (they learned from the 2007 event). The cost is excellent for in-state. And the internship and recruiting is from DC/NOVA’s top employers. I will be encouraging her to get cyber and BIT minors to round her out, given the demand for all these skill sets/knowledge.

CS is broader than CE. I wouldn’t choose CE unless you have a passion and plan for a specific area.
I recruit at several schools, including Virginia Tech. I did not attend VT, so,I don’t really have a dog in this fight.

It is objectively true that VT has excellent food.

One thing that catches my eye about VT for CS, is that it seems to be an incredibly nurturing environment. Much more so than any other school I go to. I’ve been going for years, and it seems that I see mostly the same faculty from year to year, and they seem to know most of the students by name. It’s a very different vibe from where I went to school.

VT, in general, I like it. I like the big state schools, and it qualifies as that. But it is on the smaller side of them, and thus it feels more homey there, and shouldn’t overwhelm some students like a Penn State might.

Virginia has a ton of great schools. VT is certainly one of them. (And of course, our child opted instead to go out of state).
Virginia Tech (Blacksburg) undergraduates: 27,811
Undergrad Engineering students: 7,802 or 28%

Penn State (University Park) undergraduates: 40,363
Undergrad Engineering students: 8,014 or 20%
Wannaretireearly
Posts: 4846
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:39 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Wannaretireearly »

IowaFarmBoy wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:40 am I don't think this has been mentioned but take a look at Iowa State and Iowa, particularly if he doesn't get into UIUC. They offer substantial discounts to Illinois students with strong scores. It's very easy to get the cost to a level where it is competitive with UIUC. Iowa State has a strong engineering bent, Iowa's computer science and engineering will be smaller and a little less competitive and more friendly.

We are also Illinois residents and have two daughters. One went to Illinois State in Actuarial Science, the other went to Iowa for Computer Engineering. Both were strong students and had great test scores and both received significant merit money at those schools. Almost no scholarship money at UIUC. The Actuarial Science program at Illinois State is outstanding, but overall, the university is not geared toward the technical programs and admission scores are lower. Iowa has a good engineering program- probably not on the level of a UIUC, Iowa State or Purdue, but it worked very well for our daughter. A little friendlier and less cut-throat.
What kind of jobs did your kids land? Sometimes good to have the complete picture for us/OP. Especially as a lot of our info/data points are 20+ years old. Thanks for sharing...
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
MathWizard
Posts: 6542
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by MathWizard »

Definitely apply to Illinois schools, Urbana Champaign esp.


Carnegie Mellon is also very good.

Look at nearby state schools, some states in the Midwest have tuition reciprocity. I don't know which have reciprocity with Illinois,but Minnesota and Iowa have good CS programs.
TagmoreClock
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:06 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by TagmoreClock »

I think you should look into Ohio State too.

One more point, the ACT/SAT score range 25%-75% given on various websites does not apply to Computer Science. CS usually higher. Moreover that range does not provide any idea of race either (asian/white/...)
stoptothink
Posts: 15368
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by stoptothink »

fwellimort wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 12:57 pm
Heck. Brigham Young is a whopping $5,790 in tuition. I assume the pay on the job upon graduation at Brigham/IL-State Univ/U of IL Chicago to all largely be the same.
The public school 5 miles up the road is even cheaper, and has a decent CS program (as far as I know, my two former colleagues who did the program are both now at FAANG). My wife is a current student there, she is quite successful in the data security industry (but sales); the huge majority of the development staff at her small-mid-size company went to said public school or Western Governor's (online). Definitely no FAANG, but they are stable and pay well (not Bay Area well).
Big Dog
Posts: 4588
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:12 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Big Dog »

Elysium wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:26 am As someone in nearly identical position as OP, I am keenly following this thread for responses. I do not wish to hijack this thread but will offer the background for comparison.

My son is a HS junior with interest in CS, his SAT score is above 1500, he hasn't given an ACT yet but I believe will do so soon. The problem is his GPA, which is a mix of A's and B's with all IB courses in his junior year. I think his weighted GPA might end up being close to 4.0 by end of junior year, no guarantees. He is someone who likes to study only things that interests or motivates him, and not for the sake of improving GPA even when he knows that is what will help him secure better colleges.

We have ruled out any top tier admissions, we do not think lack of consistency in GPA can be made up with high SAT/ACT scores. Besides, we do not think he will do well in a top tier since he would almost certainly not do the work just for the sake of getting grades unless it motivates him. This will be a problem even in 2nd tier schools, but hopefully he'll do enough to get at least a B+ average if the curriculum isn't too intense.

We are in Virginia where there aren't too many strong CS programs, the flagship school of UVA is nearly impossible at this point getting in with GPA below 4.3 cut off needed. He could very well get into Virginia Tech, but that doesn't interest him. Many other possibly fit schools like Purdue, U Pitt, UIUC, U Mich, UW doesn't interest him either. Same goes for Georgia Tech (which is a school with intense study). He isn't interested in social scene in places Indiana, Pitt, Chicago, or Blacksburg, VA. Instead his desire is to go across the country to CA.

He has his goals set on schools in the UC system, such as Berkeley, UCLA, Cal Tech, possibly others. He is also open to UT Austin for some reason, may be warm weather is what is attracting him.

I am not sure the UC system will accept him, especially the top three are possibly beyond his reach. We are trying to pursuade him to lower expectation and try some of the schools in mid-west, east coast, or in-state. His logic is that if he wish to be in CS then Silicon Valley is where he wants to be, and in order to be in Silicon Valley he has better chance if he is already at a school in CA, instead of graduating elsewhere and trying to re-locate. I just don't know what are the chances for an out of state student with less than perfect scores to get into a CS program in the UC system. We are just waiting for him to close out his junior year and figure out by himself since he is very opinionated on this.
Why in the heck would you want to pay $70k/yr for UC? Unless he applied for EECS, Cal is not a direct admit to CS in the College of Letters & Sciences; he'l have to pass the prereqs and apply as a Junior. (btw: UC weights GPA much more heavily than test scores, but UC does love that OOS tuition.) No chance at Caltech. Consider U-Santa Clara which is in Silicon Valley.

http://guide.berkeley.edu/undergraduate ... r-science/
inbox788
Posts: 8372
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by inbox788 »

MathWizard wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:05 pmCarnegie Mellon is also very good.
LOL. Understatement.

OP, the young student needs to do the research to decide what's a "very good school" to apply for his situation and might want to group them into the top schools, the very best schools, the elite schools, the outstanding schools, the great schools, the excellent schools, the superior schools, the very good schools, and the just good or good enough schools he might actually attend.
User avatar
SmileyFace
Posts: 9080
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:11 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by SmileyFace »

My daughter's choices a few years ago came down to two:
1) A university whereby she had a merit scholarship and I would pay, for a private university, the equivalent of a public.
2) A university whereby she would pay $120,000 more over four years than choice #1 ($30K more per year). This choice was her "stretch" school and she got it - but because she was "average" or even "Below average" for the school - she was given no scholarship.

I told her she would have to convince me that choice #2 was worth the extra $120,000 and that if she went with it; not to think in terms of help with her Masters. With choice #1 I told her we might have left over money in her 529 to help fund a Master's. She chose choice #1 and is now going to Grad school using the leftover funds.

While my daughter didn't go with CS I work in the High-Tech industry myself - with CS it VERY quickly becomes about the experience and not the education (in fact some state these days the education is becoming completely irrelevant - not sure I agree with that yet) - don't waste your money.
Church Lady
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Church Lady »

1) I second the idea of going to school in the area he wants to live in. National and multi-national firms recruit all over the country, but most job recruiters will be local. So if he wants to live in your home town (for example), he should go to school nearby.
2) I suggest choosing a curriculum that starts into CS and programming right away. Some programs have you take basics or general education for a year or more. If he doesn't like CS, he wants to find out early, not late.
3) A good career placement office is (in my opinion) essential.

Good luck!
He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity.
inbox788
Posts: 8372
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by inbox788 »

DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:20 pm My daughter's choices a few years ago came down to two:
1) A university whereby she had a merit scholarship and I would pay, for a private university, the equivalent of a public.
2) A university whereby she would pay $120,000 more over four years than choice #1 ($30K more per year). This choice was her "stretch" school and she got it - but because she was "average" or even "Below average" for the school - she was given no scholarship.

I told her she would have to convince me that choice #2 was worth the extra $120,000 and that if she went with it; not to think in terms of help with her Masters. With choice #1 I told her we might have left over money in her 529 to help fund a Master's. She chose choice #1 and is now going to Grad school using the leftover funds.

While my daughter didn't go with CS I work in the High-Tech industry myself - with CS it VERY quickly becomes about the experience and not the education (in fact some state these days the education is becoming completely irrelevant - not sure I agree with that yet) - don't waste your money.
I don't know if you can generalize without knowing the specific schools, majors or the relative rankings. Is a borderline top 20 school (Rice, Washington University (St. Louis), Emory, USC, Georgetown), worth $120,000 more than a borderline top 50 (Villanova, Lehigh, Pepperdine, Syracuse)? Without aid, the list prices are similar for most of these privates.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... iversities

The scholarship looks good on paper, but I lean towards the more competitive program being a more challenging program worth more (although CS is an oddity that more often breaks that rule). Ultimately, it comes down to the specifics, and especially the particulars of the student himself.
2pedals
Posts: 1988
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 11:31 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by 2pedals »

ualdriver wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:01 am And I guess what I should really say, is it worth it for ME to be paying these higher tuition costs since I will be footing the bill! I just don't want to waste MY money : )
Since this is a lot money you get to decide how much you will be willing to pay. It is partly up to your son to help decide your limits. Over 40 years ago when I wanted to go to engineering school things didn't seem like they would work out well for me after talking to my father. He had different limits on what he was willing to pay for each of his sons. I was accepted to both an expensive private school and a flagship state school. My father told me I was not worth the extra money of the private school but my older brother was because he was a lot smarter than me. :shock: I had to live with his decision. Even though this didn't seem fair, I attended the flagship state school and I was thankful that my parents were able to help me get started.
Elysium
Posts: 4119
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:22 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Elysium »

Big Dog wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:54 pm
Elysium wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:26 am As someone in nearly identical position as OP, I am keenly following this thread for responses. I do not wish to hijack this thread but will offer the background for comparison.

My son is a HS junior with interest in CS, his SAT score is above 1500, he hasn't given an ACT yet but I believe will do so soon. The problem is his GPA, which is a mix of A's and B's with all IB courses in his junior year. I think his weighted GPA might end up being close to 4.0 by end of junior year, no guarantees. He is someone who likes to study only things that interests or motivates him, and not for the sake of improving GPA even when he knows that is what will help him secure better colleges.

We have ruled out any top tier admissions, we do not think lack of consistency in GPA can be made up with high SAT/ACT scores. Besides, we do not think he will do well in a top tier since he would almost certainly not do the work just for the sake of getting grades unless it motivates him. This will be a problem even in 2nd tier schools, but hopefully he'll do enough to get at least a B+ average if the curriculum isn't too intense.

We are in Virginia where there aren't too many strong CS programs, the flagship school of UVA is nearly impossible at this point getting in with GPA below 4.3 cut off needed. He could very well get into Virginia Tech, but that doesn't interest him. Many other possibly fit schools like Purdue, U Pitt, UIUC, U Mich, UW doesn't interest him either. Same goes for Georgia Tech (which is a school with intense study). He isn't interested in social scene in places Indiana, Pitt, Chicago, or Blacksburg, VA. Instead his desire is to go across the country to CA.

He has his goals set on schools in the UC system, such as Berkeley, UCLA, Cal Tech, possibly others. He is also open to UT Austin for some reason, may be warm weather is what is attracting him.

I am not sure the UC system will accept him, especially the top three are possibly beyond his reach. We are trying to pursuade him to lower expectation and try some of the schools in mid-west, east coast, or in-state. His logic is that if he wish to be in CS then Silicon Valley is where he wants to be, and in order to be in Silicon Valley he has better chance if he is already at a school in CA, instead of graduating elsewhere and trying to re-locate. I just don't know what are the chances for an out of state student with less than perfect scores to get into a CS program in the UC system. We are just waiting for him to close out his junior year and figure out by himself since he is very opinionated on this.
Why in the heck would you want to pay $70k/yr for UC? Unless he applied for EECS, Cal is not a direct admit to CS in the College of Letters & Sciences; he'l have to pass the prereqs and apply as a Junior. (btw: UC weights GPA much more heavily than test scores, but UC does love that OOS tuition.) No chance at Caltech. Consider U-Santa Clara which is in Silicon Valley.

http://guide.berkeley.edu/undergraduate ... r-science/
Thanks for pointing this out. Yes, I do not think cost makes a lot of sense, and getting admit to CS program looks even more tough going by this route. I don't think he'll want EECS. Right now, he is confused probably because he doesn't know what GPA he'll end up with, but looks like mostly around 4.0 weighted. (There is a long story here about why the GPA is lower, an extremely bright kid with focus issues / organizational challenges).
He is also very stubborn and difficult to reason with at times. He will come up with off hand answers like don't want to go to Purdue/Indiana, etc, and not offer what other alternatives he'd like. So far, apart from CA which is where he now wants to go, I only heard UT Austin, and we haven't looked at it seriously since he keeps changing goal posts. Hopefully end of junior year he'll get his act together when other friends all start narrowing down options.
IowaFarmBoy
Posts: 1235
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:19 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by IowaFarmBoy »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:35 pm
IowaFarmBoy wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:40 am I don't think this has been mentioned but take a look at Iowa State and Iowa, particularly if he doesn't get into UIUC. They offer substantial discounts to Illinois students with strong scores. It's very easy to get the cost to a level where it is competitive with UIUC. Iowa State has a strong engineering bent, Iowa's computer science and engineering will be smaller and a little less competitive and more friendly.

We are also Illinois residents and have two daughters. One went to Illinois State in Actuarial Science, the other went to Iowa for Computer Engineering. Both were strong students and had great test scores and both received significant merit money at those schools. Almost no scholarship money at UIUC. The Actuarial Science program at Illinois State is outstanding, but overall, the university is not geared toward the technical programs and admission scores are lower. Iowa has a good engineering program- probably not on the level of a UIUC, Iowa State or Purdue, but it worked very well for our daughter. A little friendlier and less cut-throat.
What kind of jobs did your kids land? Sometimes good to have the complete picture for us/OP. Especially as a lot of our info/data points are 20+ years old. Thanks for sharing...
Both daughters landed well. I'm going to be deliberately vague to keep this from being too traceable. Both had multiple internships in college with good national companies. The actuary ended up accepting a position thirteen years ago with a large international insurance company in NYC. She has since moved to another large international company. The computer engineering major graduated 6 years ago and accepted a position with a large international software company based in the mid-west and is now in second level management. She landed interviews in Redmond with Microsoft for both internships and full-time but didn't get an offer. At least one of her classmates went to Microsoft.
Dregob
Posts: 852
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:45 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Dregob »

That list is way way too long.
Look at the scores needed for acceptance and reduce it to a reasonable and realistic list.
In Computer Science, unless he wants to get an advanced degree it doesn't really matter, pick a good school, do well, get an internship and more likely than not they will offer him a job. The salary will be the same if he went to an elite private school (Duke) with a mountain of debt or a quality public university and minimal debt(Go Tarheels)!
cshell2
Posts: 1194
Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 10:29 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by cshell2 »

Elysium wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:24 pm
Big Dog wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:54 pm
Elysium wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:26 am As someone in nearly identical position as OP, I am keenly following this thread for responses. I do not wish to hijack this thread but will offer the background for comparison.

My son is a HS junior with interest in CS, his SAT score is above 1500, he hasn't given an ACT yet but I believe will do so soon. The problem is his GPA, which is a mix of A's and B's with all IB courses in his junior year. I think his weighted GPA might end up being close to 4.0 by end of junior year, no guarantees. He is someone who likes to study only things that interests or motivates him, and not for the sake of improving GPA even when he knows that is what will help him secure better colleges.

We have ruled out any top tier admissions, we do not think lack of consistency in GPA can be made up with high SAT/ACT scores. Besides, we do not think he will do well in a top tier since he would almost certainly not do the work just for the sake of getting grades unless it motivates him. This will be a problem even in 2nd tier schools, but hopefully he'll do enough to get at least a B+ average if the curriculum isn't too intense.

We are in Virginia where there aren't too many strong CS programs, the flagship school of UVA is nearly impossible at this point getting in with GPA below 4.3 cut off needed. He could very well get into Virginia Tech, but that doesn't interest him. Many other possibly fit schools like Purdue, U Pitt, UIUC, U Mich, UW doesn't interest him either. Same goes for Georgia Tech (which is a school with intense study). He isn't interested in social scene in places Indiana, Pitt, Chicago, or Blacksburg, VA. Instead his desire is to go across the country to CA.

He has his goals set on schools in the UC system, such as Berkeley, UCLA, Cal Tech, possibly others. He is also open to UT Austin for some reason, may be warm weather is what is attracting him.

I am not sure the UC system will accept him, especially the top three are possibly beyond his reach. We are trying to pursuade him to lower expectation and try some of the schools in mid-west, east coast, or in-state. His logic is that if he wish to be in CS then Silicon Valley is where he wants to be, and in order to be in Silicon Valley he has better chance if he is already at a school in CA, instead of graduating elsewhere and trying to re-locate. I just don't know what are the chances for an out of state student with less than perfect scores to get into a CS program in the UC system. We are just waiting for him to close out his junior year and figure out by himself since he is very opinionated on this.
Why in the heck would you want to pay $70k/yr for UC? Unless he applied for EECS, Cal is not a direct admit to CS in the College of Letters & Sciences; he'l have to pass the prereqs and apply as a Junior. (btw: UC weights GPA much more heavily than test scores, but UC does love that OOS tuition.) No chance at Caltech. Consider U-Santa Clara which is in Silicon Valley.

http://guide.berkeley.edu/undergraduate ... r-science/
Thanks for pointing this out. Yes, I do not think cost makes a lot of sense, and getting admit to CS program looks even more tough going by this route. I don't think he'll want EECS. Right now, he is confused probably because he doesn't know what GPA he'll end up with, but looks like mostly around 4.0 weighted. (There is a long story here about why the GPA is lower, an extremely bright kid with focus issues / organizational challenges).
He is also very stubborn and difficult to reason with at times. He will come up with off hand answers like don't want to go to Purdue/Indiana, etc, and not offer what other alternatives he'd like. So far, apart from CA which is where he now wants to go, I only heard UT Austin, and we haven't looked at it seriously since he keeps changing goal posts. Hopefully end of junior year he'll get his act together when other friends all start narrowing down options.
UT Austin would be extremely spendy for out of state as well.
NoGambleNoFuture
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:17 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by NoGambleNoFuture »

DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:20 pm With CS it VERY quickly becomes about the experience and not the education
QFT.

I lead technical recruiting for a mid-sized software company. Some of the worst candidates we’ve ever interviewed have come from the CMU or the Stanford’s of the world... some of the best from the Northeastern’s or the UCSDs of the world.

Everything will come down to your experience, interests, passion, and fit with a role/company not the university on your resume. Go where you’ll be happy to live, gain great experience, and meet great people. To some that’s Berkeley (lol) to some that’s Illinois Urbana Champaign (great program btw).

A university on your resume might open some doors or intro you to some exclusive networks, but it’ll take more than just the name on paper to land a great offer at a great company.
phxjcc
Posts: 1329
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:47 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by phxjcc »

I will put in a plug for Cal Poly San Luis Obispo.

"Learn by doing"

Every student does a senior project; see the above poster's comments.

Great school, great town, graduates in demand.

UAL even flies there. :sharebeer
Doubleeagle4me
Posts: 73
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:03 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Doubleeagle4me »

Sent my daughter to Ohio state. With a act score above 28 you will get in state tuition. Don’t waste your money on undergrad
College. Spend the money on masters.
User avatar
SmileyFace
Posts: 9080
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:11 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by SmileyFace »

NoGambleNoFuture wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:29 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:20 pm With CS it VERY quickly becomes about the experience and not the education
QFT.

I lead technical recruiting for a mid-sized software company. Some of the worst candidates we’ve ever interviewed have come from the CMU or the Stanford’s of the world... some of the best from the Northeastern’s or the UCSDs of the world.

Everything will come down to your experience, interests, passion, and fit with a role/company not the university on your resume. Go where you’ll be happy to live, gain great experience, and meet great people. To some that’s Berkeley (lol) to some that’s Illinois Urbana Champaign (great program btw).

A university on your resume might open some doors or intro you to some exclusive networks, but it’ll take more than just the name on paper to land a great offer at a great company.
Northeastern has a HUGE advantage in that the entire programs for various majors is based upon Intern/Co-op programs. It may take graduates an extra year to graduate - but they graduate with 2 years of (often) real-world experience under their belts. A lot of people respond to this with "Lots of schools have Intern programs" BUT there is a large difference between a 2 month summer intern - and one whereby you spend half the school year working AND get assistance from a large team in finding a job (and that team is out visiting companies negotiating openings and salaries). Unfortunately the tuition there, like at many great schools, has gotten a bit out of hand in recent years.
MathWizard
Posts: 6542
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by MathWizard »

inbox788 wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:03 pm
MathWizard wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:05 pmCarnegie Mellon is also very good.
LOL. Understatement.
It seems that for some people anything but an Ivy League , Standford or CalTech is an also ran.

I would consider one Carnegie Mellon one of the best.
Given that the student is in Illinois, Urbana Champaign would be a superior choice on value as
it would have in-state tuition, and the student could travel to/from by car.

The acceptance rate is higher at Urbana Champaign, and a 32 ACT would place him at the top of the
middle 50% of the freshman class. At CMU, he would be on the low end for admission.

Op:
A factor in a decision is "If you get accepted, do you want to go if you will be at the bottom of the range?"

I was a National Merit Finalist and wanted to go to MIT, but did not have the money.
I had a son who was a National Merit Finalist, but would not even look at MIT, because of the competitiveness there.
He went to the top in-state engineering school instead, and had lots of opportunities there, so likely the
better decision, at least for him. Each student is different.
GT99
Posts: 757
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:26 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by GT99 »

ualdriver wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:01 am

Further, as I initially look at these tuition prices, they vary quite a bit. Even if my kid could get into a University of Chicago at $59,000 (which he doesn't have the grades for anyway), is a high priced, seemingly highly ranked school like this worth the money over a Georgia Tech, for example, that "only" charges $34K/year and also appears to have a great Computer Science program?
Georgia Tech's CS program is generally significantly higher rated than University of Chicago (it is #8 nationally in US News vs #30 for Chicago). That said, no disrespect intended, but as a reality check, if he's borderline on getting into Univ of IL Champaign as an in-state student, there's no way he's going to get into GT out of state. Average SAT at UIUC is 1420. GT is 1470.
inbox788
Posts: 8372
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by inbox788 »

MathWizard wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:20 am
inbox788 wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:03 pm
MathWizard wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:05 pmCarnegie Mellon is also very good.
LOL. Understatement.
It seems that for some people anything but an Ivy League , Standford or CalTech is an also ran.

I would consider one Carnegie Mellon one of the best.
Given that the student is in Illinois, Urbana Champaign would be a superior choice on value as
it would have in-state tuition, and the student could travel to/from by car.

The acceptance rate is higher at Urbana Champaign, and a 32 ACT would place him at the top of the
middle 50% of the freshman class. At CMU, he would be on the low end for admission.

Op:
A factor in a decision is "If you get accepted, do you want to go if you will be at the bottom of the range?"

I was a National Merit Finalist and wanted to go to MIT, but did not have the money.
I had a son who was a National Merit Finalist, but would not even look at MIT, because of the competitiveness there.
He went to the top in-state engineering school instead, and had lots of opportunities there, so likely the
better decision, at least for him. Each student is different.
I totally disagree, it's NOT one of the best! (and some in CS or tech might consider Ivys as the also ran) Just look at US News rankings. CM tops the very best, and ranks above MIT, Stanford and U Cal (if only alphabetically).

Many state schools are very good schools and some people are extremely modest. With some of the lesser know and smaller programs, those not familiar might not differentiate in a binary world of very good and bad schools (which may not always be a bad thing). Still, completely agree it's really up to each individual student.
GT99 wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:33 am
ualdriver wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:01 amFurther, as I initially look at these tuition prices, they vary quite a bit. Even if my kid could get into a University of Chicago at $59,000 (which he doesn't have the grades for anyway), is a high priced, seemingly highly ranked school like this worth the money over a Georgia Tech, for example, that "only" charges $34K/year and also appears to have a great Computer Science program?
Georgia Tech's CS program is generally significantly higher rated than University of Chicago (it is #8 nationally in US News vs #30 for Chicago). That said, no disrespect intended, but as a reality check, if he's borderline on getting into Univ of IL Champaign as an in-state student, there's no way he's going to get into GT out of state. Average SAT at UIUC is 1420. GT is 1470.
It used to be that state schools reserved most spots for in-state students, and the few out-of-state students had to pay near private school tuition AND generally be more competitive than the in-state students. But today, because of all the budget problems, and those higher tuition payments, some state schools have reversed the standards, so out-of-state and international students at some state schools are less qualified than the in-state students. In some cases, the percentage of non in-state students went from single digits to a quarter or a third. Sometimes, it was because they wanted more qualified students, but now I worry it's more for balancing their books.

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-sc ... e-rankings

Anyway, Harvard also is very good (#16 on the list) and the computer science students from Harvard and U Chicago will likely experience very good success that might not be similar to those that attend the very best, best or rest of the other schools. If your interest is say fintech vs gaming, you should order your lists differently.
MathWizard
Posts: 6542
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:35 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by MathWizard »

inbox788 wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:51 pm
MathWizard wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:20 am
inbox788 wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:03 pm
MathWizard wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:05 pmCarnegie Mellon is also very good.
LOL. Understatement.
It seems that for some people anything but an Ivy League , Standford or CalTech is an also ran.

I would consider one Carnegie Mellon one of the best.
Given that the student is in Illinois, Urbana Champaign would be a superior choice on value as
it would have in-state tuition, and the student could travel to/from by car.

The acceptance rate is higher at Urbana Champaign, and a 32 ACT would place him at the top of the
middle 50% of the freshman class. At CMU, he would be on the low end for admission.

Op:
A factor in a decision is "If you get accepted, do you want to go if you will be at the bottom of the range?"

I was a National Merit Finalist and wanted to go to MIT, but did not have the money.
I had a son who was a National Merit Finalist, but would not even look at MIT, because of the competitiveness there.
He went to the top in-state engineering school instead, and had lots of opportunities there, so likely the
better decision, at least for him. Each student is different.
I totally disagree, it's NOT one of the best! (and some in CS or tech might consider Ivys as the also ran) Just look at US News rankings. CM tops the very best, and ranks above MIT, Stanford and U Cal (if only alphabetically).

Many state schools are very good schools and some people are extremely modest. With some of the lesser know and smaller programs, those not familiar might not differentiate in a binary world of very good and bad schools (which may not always be a bad thing). Still, completely agree it's really up to each individual student.
GT99 wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 11:33 am
ualdriver wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:01 amFurther, as I initially look at these tuition prices, they vary quite a bit. Even if my kid could get into a University of Chicago at $59,000 (which he doesn't have the grades for anyway), is a high priced, seemingly highly ranked school like this worth the money over a Georgia Tech, for example, that "only" charges $34K/year and also appears to have a great Computer Science program?
Georgia Tech's CS program is generally significantly higher rated than University of Chicago (it is #8 nationally in US News vs #30 for Chicago). That said, no disrespect intended, but as a reality check, if he's borderline on getting into Univ of IL Champaign as an in-state student, there's no way he's going to get into GT out of state. Average SAT at UIUC is 1420. GT is 1470.
It used to be that state schools reserved most spots for in-state students, and the few out-of-state students had to pay near private school tuition AND generally be more competitive than the in-state students. But today, because of all the budget problems, and those higher tuition payments, some state schools have reversed the standards, so out-of-state and international students at some state schools are less qualified than the in-state students. In some cases, the percentage of non in-state students went from single digits to a quarter or a third. Sometimes, it was because they wanted more qualified students, but now I worry it's more for balancing their books.

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-sc ... e-rankings

Anyway, Harvard also is very good (#16 on the list) and the computer science students from Harvard and U Chicago will likely experience very good success that might not be similar to those that attend the very best, best or rest of the other schools. If your interest is say fintech vs gaming, you should order your lists differently.

1) The comment about Ivy's was that I was not going to say it was the best because then everyone trots out their favorite school.
I find it hard to name the one best program, so I say one of the best. I consider MIT's CS program on par.

2) From the OP's comments, hew was borderline getting into Univ of Chicago, not UIUC. With a 31 ACT, he would likely get in, and be at or near the top of the middle 50% of students, and so could compete well. A 35 in Math is even better.
Theoretical CS is basically pure math, graph theory, automata theory (basically semigroups), proofs of the algorithm
complexity for recursive algorithms almost always requires math induction, which many CS majors do poorly at.

I agree on the high rating for Georgia Tech: I know a Prof. who went to GT, and the program their is great.
A Prof. not at GT, who went to Cal Tech. for his PhD rated GT higher than Cal Tech.

For this student, UIUC seems the best fit.
NoGambleNoFuture
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:17 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by NoGambleNoFuture »

DaftInvestor wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:34 am
NoGambleNoFuture wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:29 pm
DaftInvestor wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:20 pm With CS it VERY quickly becomes about the experience and not the education
QFT.

I lead technical recruiting for a mid-sized software company. Some of the worst candidates we’ve ever interviewed have come from the CMU or the Stanford’s of the world... some of the best from the Northeastern’s or the UCSDs of the world.

Everything will come down to your experience, interests, passion, and fit with a role/company not the university on your resume. Go where you’ll be happy to live, gain great experience, and meet great people. To some that’s Berkeley (lol) to some that’s Illinois Urbana Champaign (great program btw).

A university on your resume might open some doors or intro you to some exclusive networks, but it’ll take more than just the name on paper to land a great offer at a great company.
Northeastern has a HUGE advantage in that the entire programs for various majors is based upon Intern/Co-op programs. It may take graduates an extra year to graduate - but they graduate with 2 years of (often) real-world experience under their belts. A lot of people respond to this with "Lots of schools have Intern programs" BUT there is a large difference between a 2 month summer intern - and one whereby you spend half the school year working AND get assistance from a large team in finding a job (and that team is out visiting companies negotiating openings and salaries). Unfortunately the tuition there, like at many great schools, has gotten a bit out of hand in recent years.
SHHHHHHHHHHH... We recruit heavily there for just this reason. Strong program, 6-8 month co-ops vs. 13 week internships, big international presence not tied to the area looking to get out of the cold and to the west coast, etc. :D
User avatar
SkierMom
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:53 pm
Location: Northern CAli

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by SkierMom »

UIUC College of Engineering grad here. As an Illinois resident, I'm confounded as to why you would even consider spending $70k/year at a UC with University of Illinois as a possibility.

Has your son been out to CA before? The California Bay Area - Silicon Valley is a disgusting pit (IMHO). Traffic, home prices, COL, high taxes, low-performing public schools, and out-of-control addiction/homeless are the downside of accepting that FAANG salary. As a kid from Illinois, is this really what he wants or is he in love with the IDEA of California? Lots of great opportunities in Nashville, Dallas, Minnesota and suburban Chicago with companies that will instantly recognize the quality and potential of a UIUC grad.

Our daughter is also a HS Junior interested in CS, animation-CGI graphics. She does not have the stats for top tier UC (would likely get into Riverside or Merced, but at $37,000/year we'll pass) so we are looking OOS and at some of the privates. Campus fit and feel are of utmost importance. Likewise, smaller computer department, smaller school, emphasis on internships and a little more hand-holding is what we are looking for. We are also telling all our kids that where you go to college is not where you are choosing to live your professional life.

FWIW - Absolute WORST engineer I hired was fresh out of Georgia Tech; the best engineer I hired went to a small community college in Nevada and graduated from U of Nevada - Reno.
Elysium
Posts: 4119
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:22 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Elysium »

SkierMom wrote: Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:33 pm Has your son been out to CA before? The California Bay Area - Silicon Valley is a disgusting pit (IMHO). Traffic, home prices, COL, high taxes, low-performing public schools, and out-of-control addiction/homeless are the downside of accepting that FAANG salary. As a kid from Illinois, is this really what he wants or is he in love with the IDEA of California? Lots of great opportunities in Nashville, Dallas, Minnesota and suburban Chicago with companies that will instantly recognize the quality and potential of a UIUC grad.
Can't speak for OPs son, but this is what my son is enamored with, the idea of California and Silicon Valley. One part of me agrees because that's where most innovative companies are located, other part would like him to stay closer to home on the east coast, look for in-state in VA, or mid west / south east.
User avatar
Topic Author
ualdriver
Posts: 734
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:07 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by ualdriver »

All-

We're still here........reading, learning, adding schools to our spreadsheet. The comments have been incredibly helpful. You Bogleheads** have my kid thinking there is no reason to go to school out of state now, but we still have a wide net and are doing are due diligence as we look at schools both inside and outside of IL, private and public.

As a data point, he just got his PSAT scores yesterday (the "practice" SAT that is an actual SAT test but doesn't count) and he got a 1480 with a 780 math. This grade is pretty consistent with his previous PSAT score and his 31 ACT score. I suspect when he takes the real SAT in April and retakes the ACT in July, his scores will be about the same. He practices 3 test sections per week, and carefully analyzes the questions he gets wrong. In math, the few he gets wrong are almost entirely due to human error (time constraints, math errors, whatever). English, again, random errors, but sometimes we can't figure out why the right answer is the right answer. I'm not sure what he can do to get his scores much higher, especially the non-Math sections so I assume the scores will stay about the same.

Again, thank you all for your comments. We're still here until the thread dies.......

**I say "you Bogleheads" in jest. I'm one too and agree an in-State University if definitely the best cost effective option.
User avatar
SkierMom
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:53 pm
Location: Northern CAli

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by SkierMom »

Look into what schools Superscore (combine highest section scores to compute a higher composite) the ACT. I do not think U of Illinois does, but many of the privates (think merit aid) do.

Starting in September 2020, the ACT test was revised to allow students the option to retake certain sections instead of the entire test again. Son can keep his Math and Science scores, and just concentrate on re-doing the English and Reading sections.
User avatar
Topic Author
ualdriver
Posts: 734
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:07 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by ualdriver »

SkierMom wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:32 pm Starting in September 2020, the ACT test was revised to allow students the option to retake certain sections instead of the entire test again. Son can keep his Math and Science scores, and just concentrate on re-doing the English and Reading sections.
This is good information! Thanks very much!
GAAP
Posts: 2548
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:41 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by GAAP »

California State University, Chico would be another.

Yes, in California -- but not close to the really expensive places in the Bay Area or SoCal.
“Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.” ― Bruce Lee
User avatar
SkierMom
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:53 pm
Location: Northern CAli

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by SkierMom »

GAAP wrote: Wed Mar 11, 2020 8:13 pm California State University, Chico would be another.

Yes, in California -- but not close to the really expensive places in the Bay Area or SoCal.
GAAP Do you have knowledge of the Computer Science Department at CSU Chico? We are steering clear of the CSUs because of impaction and over-crowding. Chico has limited impaction, to my knowledge.
GAAP
Posts: 2548
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:41 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by GAAP »

SkierMom wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:07 am GAAP Do you have knowledge of the Computer Science Department at CSU Chico? We are steering clear of the CSUs because of impaction and over-crowding. Chico has limited impaction, to my knowledge.
I know they have a good reputation -- and have had one for decades. My quick skim of the online ratings seems to indicate that hasn't changed.

Chico is a smaller town, my guess is that the general public is less aware of that school than most others in the system.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CSUC/ might be a good place to get a better answer. I did see some posts about housing impacts from the Paradise fire -- Paradise is right down the road, and close enough to be a commute home source for Chico.
“Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.” ― Bruce Lee
RetiredCSProf
Posts: 1226
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:59 pm

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by RetiredCSProf »

Elysium wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:26 am As someone in nearly identical position as OP, I am keenly following this thread for responses. I do not wish to hijack this thread but will offer the background for comparison.

...
He has his goals set on schools in the UC system, such as Berkeley, UCLA, Cal Tech, possibly others. He is also open to UT Austin for some reason, may be warm weather is what is attracting him.
Cal Tech is an elite private engineering school, not part of the UC system. It is more like MIT than UCLA. The least selective of the UC system is UC Riverside. One-third of UCLA undergrads enter in their junior year, most as transfer students from CA community colleges.
User avatar
Bruce
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:02 am
Location: Alaska

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Bruce »

Just wanted to add this list of schools to the mix, participating in the NSF funded “scholarships for service “cyber corps”.

https://niccs.us-cert.gov/formal-educat ... ervice-sfs

The Scholarship for Service (SFS) Program is designed to recruit and train the next generation of cybersecurity professionals to meet the needs of Federal, State, local, and tribal government. This program provides scholarships for cybersecurity undergraduate and graduate (MS or PhD) education funded through grants through the National Science Foundation .

Participating institutions and points of contact at each of those schools here.

https://www.sfs.opm.gov/ContactsPI.aspx

Regards
Bruce | | Winner of the 2017 Bogleheads Contest | | "Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
Post Reply