Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

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Doubleeagle4me
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Doubleeagle4me »

Go to Ohio state. With his act scores he gets in state tuition. Go bucks!
livesoft
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by livesoft »

Just reading this thread for the first time.

My son has many friends who graduated with computer science degrees. I know many Computer Science professors at top-ranked universities. Based on the original post, your son should try to go to an in-state flagship university. There is no point in going to another state's flagship university unless the costs are less which I cannot imagine they would be.

As for private universities, they could be a choice, too, but just look at the best private university in less than 7 different states. One doesn't need to spreadsheet this.

In the end, your son should go where his friends go including his girlfriend. That will make all the difference in the college experience.

My son did not go to a top-ranked university and all his computer science buddies got decent jobs. If your son was motivated to go to highly a competitive top-ranked university, then he wouldn't need any help from bogleheads.org to do so.
My advice is really let you son own this and come back to you with a list. Ask a few questions based on his list, but let him own getting the answers. Its so easy to just step in and do all the work, but the only way they learn is by doing.
Totally agree. Great advice.
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ualdriver
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by ualdriver »

All through livesoft........

Looks like this thread is dying out. We have read every post on this thread. We appreciate all the excellent advice we have received. Thanks!
bryansmile
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by bryansmile »

Doubleeagle4me wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:22 pm Go to Ohio state. With his act scores he gets in state tuition. Go bucks!
I'm interested in this. What is the criteria for getting in state tuition at osu as an out of state?
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Vulcan
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Vulcan »

bryansmile wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:10 pm
Doubleeagle4me wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:22 pm Go to Ohio state. With his act scores he gets in state tuition. Go bucks!
I'm interested in this. What is the criteria for getting in state tuition at osu as an out of state?
OSU's merit scholarships are listed here, but be aware that the ACT scores they list are minimums necessary for consideration, not automatic awards.

http://undergrad.osu.edu/cost-and-aid/m ... holarships

Our elder was offered their National Buckeye and Maximus scholarships, which would have brought our COA within 5K of their in-state rate.

Not sure how all of this will work in the COVID-19 era with many schools going test optional.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
BUBear29
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by BUBear29 »

cshell2 wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 10:50 pm
Elysium wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:24 pm
Big Dog wrote: Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:54 pm
Elysium wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:26 am As someone in nearly identical position as OP, I am keenly following this thread for responses. I do not wish to hijack this thread but will offer the background for comparison.

My son is a HS junior with interest in CS, his SAT score is above 1500, he hasn't given an ACT yet but I believe will do so soon. The problem is his GPA, which is a mix of A's and B's with all IB courses in his junior year. I think his weighted GPA might end up being close to 4.0 by end of junior year, no guarantees. He is someone who likes to study only things that interests or motivates him, and not for the sake of improving GPA even when he knows that is what will help him secure better colleges.

We have ruled out any top tier admissions, we do not think lack of consistency in GPA can be made up with high SAT/ACT scores. Besides, we do not think he will do well in a top tier since he would almost certainly not do the work just for the sake of getting grades unless it motivates him. This will be a problem even in 2nd tier schools, but hopefully he'll do enough to get at least a B+ average if the curriculum isn't too intense.

We are in Virginia where there aren't too many strong CS programs, the flagship school of UVA is nearly impossible at this point getting in with GPA below 4.3 cut off needed. He could very well get into Virginia Tech, but that doesn't interest him. Many other possibly fit schools like Purdue, U Pitt, UIUC, U Mich, UW doesn't interest him either. Same goes for Georgia Tech (which is a school with intense study). He isn't interested in social scene in places Indiana, Pitt, Chicago, or Blacksburg, VA. Instead his desire is to go across the country to CA.

He has his goals set on schools in the UC system, such as Berkeley, UCLA, Cal Tech, possibly others. He is also open to UT Austin for some reason, may be warm weather is what is attracting him.

I am not sure the UC system will accept him, especially the top three are possibly beyond his reach. We are trying to pursuade him to lower expectation and try some of the schools in mid-west, east coast, or in-state. His logic is that if he wish to be in CS then Silicon Valley is where he wants to be, and in order to be in Silicon Valley he has better chance if he is already at a school in CA, instead of graduating elsewhere and trying to re-locate. I just don't know what are the chances for an out of state student with less than perfect scores to get into a CS program in the UC system. We are just waiting for him to close out his junior year and figure out by himself since he is very opinionated on this.
Why in the heck would you want to pay $70k/yr for UC? Unless he applied for EECS, Cal is not a direct admit to CS in the College of Letters & Sciences; he'l have to pass the prereqs and apply as a Junior. (btw: UC weights GPA much more heavily than test scores, but UC does love that OOS tuition.) No chance at Caltech. Consider U-Santa Clara which is in Silicon Valley.

http://guide.berkeley.edu/undergraduate ... r-science/
Thanks for pointing this out. Yes, I do not think cost makes a lot of sense, and getting admit to CS program looks even more tough going by this route. I don't think he'll want EECS. Right now, he is confused probably because he doesn't know what GPA he'll end up with, but looks like mostly around 4.0 weighted. (There is a long story here about why the GPA is lower, an extremely bright kid with focus issues / organizational challenges).
He is also very stubborn and difficult to reason with at times. He will come up with off hand answers like don't want to go to Purdue/Indiana, etc, and not offer what other alternatives he'd like. So far, apart from CA which is where he now wants to go, I only heard UT Austin, and we haven't looked at it seriously since he keeps changing goal posts. Hopefully end of junior year he'll get his act together when other friends all start narrowing down options.
UT Austin would be extremely spendy for out of state as well.
This. I never understood why someone would pay those kinds of prices for an out of state public school. I’d rather pay that kind of money for a private school.

As far as OP, I’d also strongly urge you to consider class sizes as well when looking at schools. I went to a decent size private (its actually on your list and is about 14k undergrad) but the allure was the small class sizes upperclassmen experience within their major (about 20 students per class). This offered excellent access to professors and TAs that I would not have received at a state school. This was invaluable to my learning experience.
There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.
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warowits
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by warowits »

I know you have a million colleges on that list, but you should know that the University of Washington may accept your child, but they almost certainly will not get in the CS program. Direct admits to the CS program tend to have much better stats and in state students get preferential consideration. Nearly all CS majors are direct admits, with many UW students ultimately having to switch schools if the want to study CS.
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ualdriver
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by ualdriver »

I'm the OP........Through Warowits, thanks!
jimmy2040
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by jimmy2040 »

1. RetiredCSProf is right. You want your kid to finish a CS degree. A lot of programs are very challenging and end up scaring kids to change majors to something easy.

2. Location is very important for CS majors too.

https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/296110
softwaregeek
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by softwaregeek »

Late to the party, but I will comment.

I have a computer science degree from one of the top 10 schools you mention there.

Illinois at Champaign is a great school with a great reputation. There is no need to look at any other state school on the list if he can get there. For CS, it is as good as any state school in the country.

Of course, if he can get into Harvard/Princeton/Stanford/MIT that is a different story. Those have a cache that is independent of what they teach.

Your kid needs to get out, suck up to the right professor, and get an internship with a great company. That's generally how it works. The professors are the pipeline to the best jobs in the industry.
marcopolo
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by marcopolo »

livesoft wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 1:33 pm
In the end, your son should go where his friends go including his girlfriend. That will make all the difference in the college experience.
Interesting. I always advised my kids to do the opposite.
They are still friends with some of their HS friends. But, by going somewhere all of them didn't go, I think they got out of their comfort zone, broadened their horizon, and learned to thrive in unfamiliar territory, better than they would have with all their friends around. All valuable skills for later in life, I would think. Otherwise, it can become a bit of an echo chamber.

OP, if your son is able to get into UIUC, that is about as good as any other state flagship school and most private schools. We were in a similar situation, and advised our sons to apply to a small number of reach schools (Think MIT, Stanford, CalTech, etc.). If accepted, great. If not, a top rated state school like UIUC seems to make more sense than paying twice or more for comparable private or out of state school.

Good luck to you.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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ualdriver
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by ualdriver »

All through marcopolo-

Thanks for the advice. We hope he will be able to get into University of Illinois Champaign (it's currently his first choice) but it is very competitive. We're not sure if his grades and standardized test scores will be high enough for U of I Champaign.

As always, thanks for the input. This is an older thread but I suddenly started getting notifications again that people were adding to it. We appreciate it and will keep reading as long as the advice flows in.
otinkyad
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by otinkyad »

Many of those schools are way out of reach for a B+ student with a 31 ACT aiming for CS.

Indiana has a decent CS program. DePaul’s CS program also punches well above the school’s rankings. Both have good merit aid, which is something to look at closely because the sticker prices don’t mean much.

Note that most CS programs are large these days, and require significantly higher grades and test scores to get into than other majors. Target schools can really be strong reaches when you’re applying for CS, especially the west coast public schools. (UW had a page last year that basically said that out-of-state students aren’t getting admitted to CS. The UC acceptance rates are 5-30% with median test scores above 1500/33 and median unweighted GPAs above 3.8.)

Departmental rankings are generally based on the graduate programs, which have only a small positive correlation with the quality of the undergraduate programs.

As a parent and the owner of a small software company, I’m dubious of the merit of selective schools. It feels like the NFL argument, and most people aren’t going to the NFL. If your goal is to be the next superstar, yeah, history says that you have to go to an HPYMS and drop out, but that’s just horrifically bad advice. Tech companies are starved for talent and looking everywhere these days, which is getting easier and easier to do, so parental memories of recruiting in the nineties are not very useful. A place that reduces stress (academic, social, and financial) and encourages enduring achievement is more important, or so I feel.
nigel_ht
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by nigel_ht »

fwellimort wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:07 am
evestor wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:22 am 1) Student that did a couple of great internships and built some stuff they are proud of / can talk about, participated in some extra-thing at their school, contributed to 2 open source projects on github, understands how computers work and has written a bunch of real code
To get those internships, that 'first door step' is the difficult part. Most of my friends who got into top tech companies was able to get at least one internship at a major company. Once you get say 'Microsoft Internship' or whatever on your resume, school name does not matter at all. It's 'getting' that internship which requires passing through the recruiter giving you a chance for an interview.

As for contributing to open source projects on github, for most people, that's unrealistic. my friends and I even asked to a Googler working in Tensorflow with a phd and he even replied, "that's a horrible advice. It's incredibly difficult to contribute to any meaningful open source without at least 4~6 years of real world experience". And none of my peers have open source contributions. It's a rarity and really only shows from those who been programming before college (and a very small subset from those).
After all, understanding a repository takes a lot of time (time one does not have during college) and knowledge of industry level coding (which college grads don't have).
Sure, you can point towards 'easy tasks' at Firefox, etc. but even those I feel are way too high level for college grads.
As a former GSOC (google summer of code) mentor I disagree. I know a couple kids that scored interviews via that route (not at google tho)...but you do need to be a good coder. I know a couple mentors that scored Google interviews...

As a hiring manager I look at GitHub repos if they are on the resume and moderately downgrade ones without. If you don’t have code to show me it makes it harder for me. Making it harder for me is generally sub-optimal if you want to get hired.

It doesn’t have to be open source. If you can write an app for Android or iOS that’s great too. Just show me something, anything more substantive than class homework. Even a good capstone project is fine. Gives us something to talk about.

I will agree that internships are key. When looking at schools I would prioritize those that require/support coop internships to graduate. RIT is one I’ve had luck recruiting from.

Quick google:

https://www.road2college.com/colleges-w ... -programs/

I also look at clubs...I keep an eye on students in certain clubs at the unis we recruit from (cubesat, underwater vehicles, robotics, etc) where they build hardware and write code. Uber geeks tend to participate in those and they also end up with solid code on github as a result.

Unfortunately as cool as we are we lose a lot of candidates to FAANG.

In some aspects which school for undergrad matters a great deal (some do a lot better than others in getting top internships) but in other aspects not as much. Coders code and it shows. With all of the tools and opportunities these days if you are interested in building something you can do so even in high school and certainly after your freshman set of intro to programming courses.

The primary benefit for college classes is to provide fundamental understanding of how and why things work...not how to code. You can learn to code through Apple, khan or a bunch of other avenues.
nigel_ht
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by nigel_ht »

otinkyad wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:35 pm DePaul’s CS program also punches well above the school’s rankings.
I’m surprised about DePaul. Tell us more...
inbox788
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by inbox788 »

Elysium wrote: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:26 amMy son is a HS junior with interest in CS, his SAT score is above 1500...
...his GPA, which is a mix of A's and B's with all IB courses in his junior year. I think his weighted GPA might end up being close to 4.0 by end of junior year, no guarantees. He is someone who likes to study only things that interests or motivates him, and not for the sake of improving GPA even when he knows that is what will help him secure better colleges.

We have ruled out any top tier admissions, we do not think lack of consistency in GPA can be made up with high SAT/ACT scores. Besides, we do not think he will do well in a top tier since he would almost certainly not do the work just for the sake of getting grades unless it motivates him. This will be a problem even in 2nd tier schools, but hopefully he'll do enough to get at least a B+ average if the curriculum isn't too intense.

We are in Virginia where there aren't too many strong CS programs, the flagship school of UVA is nearly impossible at this point getting in with GPA below 4.3 cut off needed. He could very well get into Virginia Tech, but that doesn't interest him. Many other possibly fit schools like Purdue, U Pitt, UIUC, U Mich, UW doesn't interest him either. Same goes for Georgia Tech (which is a school with intense study). He isn't interested in social scene in places Indiana, Pitt, Chicago, or Blacksburg, VA. Instead his desire is to go across the country to CA.

He has his goals set on schools in the UC system, such as Berkeley, UCLA, Cal Tech, possibly others. He is also open to UT Austin for some reason, may be warm weather is what is attracting him.

I am not sure the UC system will accept him, especially the top three are possibly beyond his reach.

His logic is that if he wish to be in CS then Silicon Valley is where he wants to be, and in order to be in Silicon Valley he has better chance if he is already at a school in CA, instead of graduating elsewhere and trying to re-locate. I just don't know what are the chances for an out of state student with less than perfect scores to get into a CS program in the UC system. We are just waiting for him to close out his junior year and figure out by himself since he is very opinionated on this.
Maybe he heard the calling to Go West, Young Man (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBZUz4C6kqk ) or he's doing it for the California Gurls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F57P9C4SAW4 )

Besides Berkeley and UCLA, which UC are you calling "top three"? Overall or in CS? In any case, considering program, cost, chance of admission, etc. he may be better off applying to the top 3 private programs in the state instead of paying out of state tuition.

Is CS at UVA really that competitive these days (4.3 GPA cutoff)? I don't know where this site (https://www.prepscholar.com/sat/s/colle ... scores-GPA ) gets their information, but I'd like corroboration. The Engineering School says isn't quite that high (https://eng.vt.edu/about.html ) And isn't there still an instate preference? I'd guess he's competitive depending on everything else.

If his goal is Silicon Valley, one path is a 2nd tier or 3rd tier school like Harvard. Seriously, most ivy CS programs as well as some LAC are real pathways, but they're just as impossibly hard to get into if not more so. And so far I haven't heard anything that matches or stands out. But statistically, the chances at some of these small programs might actually be higher than the big programs.

Lots of alumni at Goggle and Microsoft, and a few at Facebook and Apple.
https://csci.williams.edu/people/alumni-directory/

https://www.wesleyan.edu/mathcs/cs/jobs_etc.html

https://www.colgate.edu/academics/depar ... er-science
http://www.middlebury.edu/academics/cs/about
nigel_ht wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:56 pm
otinkyad wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:35 pm DePaul’s CS program also punches well above the school’s rankings.
I’m surprised about DePaul. Tell us more...
DePaul or Depauw?
https://www.depauw.edu/academics/depart ... er-depauw/
https://www.depauw.edu/academics/depart ... e-to-stay/
NativeOregonian
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by NativeOregonian »

My son majored in CS and went to the very affordable Portland State University while living at home and took on zero debt. He did two internships, got hired on by one of them right out of school He switched jobs a year ago and at 25, he's working for a cyber security company making 6 figures.

In my opinion, as both an HR professional and a mother, it's not so much the school that matters as it is what you do while you're there.
MMiroir
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by MMiroir »

NativeOregonian wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:46 pmMy son majored in CS and went to the very affordable Portland State University while living at home and took on zero debt. He did two internships, got hired on by one of them right out of school He switched jobs a year ago and at 25, he's working for a cyber security company making 6 figures.

In my opinion, as both an HR professional and a mother, it's not so much the school that matters as it is what you do while you're there.
That might be true in the long run, but in the short term there are significant differences. College Scorecard is a government run website that publishes salary information for recent graduates. The average starting salary for SC majors at PSU was $78,100, which is fairly typical for CS major at state universities with solid programs.

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/ ... University

The best quality CS schools have much higher average starting salaries. For example, Carnegie Mellon has an average starting salary of $138,900.

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/ ... University

Here is a long article from IvyAchievement, a college placement firm, that goes into the detail regarding the outcomes of various CS programs. Their conclusion was that college ranking made a big difference at the very top end of the scale, but the lower the ranking, the smaller the difference between adjacent schools within the ranking.
MARFEE
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by MARFEE »

Here is a related post:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=194755

I keep in touch by email with “Timmy”. He was very helpful answering my questions when we went through the process. I had recently lost my spouse. I appreciated his kindness.

Timmy’s son is older now. Last winter, which was our last email exchange, his son was thinking about graduate school. His son had started a small company freshman year. He was in the process of selling it to Seemons (sp?).

My lesson for you - temper your expectations.Timmy’s son had perfect SAT and ACT scores. He was waitlisted at both MIT and Stanford - every top student in the country is trying to get into those schools.

Now if your kid is 6’8”, muscular, and runs really fast. Maybe

Timmy’s middle son has the same standing. He is applying to MIT, ND, Purdue, and U Mich. His son is good at some sport so U Mich has been recruiting him and there is potential for $. His son doesn’t seem overly fond of the school though. He will also take a year off to work at an orphanage in Africa. I don’t know how that all works.

I wish you and your son the best!
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Dan-in-Virginia
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Dan-in-Virginia »

Go for a flagship in-state or one that is aligned to CS.

My daughter chose Virginia Tech which is a great deal. I love the emphasis on learning CS in an engineering context. She’s also got a minor in Cyber in the Computer Engineering Dept.

All freshmen there are General Engineers (they breakout into majors in their second year) and she’s living in a dorm with all engineers as part of a living learning community.

We live within a mile of VT’s Falls Church VA graduate satellite and 8.5m from their new $1B Tech Innovation Campus (to be completed by 2024) which is located adjacent to Amazon’s HQ2 in NVA. So she could live at home and attend graduate school room/board at no extra cost. Living in NoVA provides lots of tech internship opportunities at DoD, Microsoft, Amazon, and others.

That said, how a student distinguished themselves at school is important. What research they participate in matters.

Going to a school affiliated with a tech hub is a plus.
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Monsterflockster »

ualdriver wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:01 am Boglehead Brain Trust:

My son and I are starting to look at colleges and universities. He wants to major in Computer Science. He's currently a junior in HS. He's a good student. He's not getting into a top tier college, but he does pretty well and we're happy with his academics (31 ACT composite w/35 math, all AP & Honors courses, B+ student, STEM related extra-curricular activities) I started a spreadsheet using US News and World Report (USNWR) College Rankings for Computer Science as a baseline, crosschecking many of the schools against Google searches and other college "ranking" sites. Below I copied from my spreadsheet a rough "ranking" of schools (at least according to the websites I've consulted). I realize rankings are incredibly, incredibly subjective, hence my questions here. To the left of each college is the annual tuition posted "sticker price" from USNWR.

I realize there are many successful professionals in this industry on this forum. I was wondering what we should be looking for in a Computer Science program? What should we be thinking about? What can we use as discriminators, besides the obvious GPA, ACT, SAT scores that will get a kid admitted in the first place? Should he simply be trying to get into the most competitive school that will take him?

Further, as I initially look at these tuition prices, they vary quite a bit. Even if my kid could get into a University of Chicago at $59,000 (which he doesn't have the grades for anyway), is a high priced, seemingly highly ranked school like this worth the money over a Georgia Tech, for example, that "only" charges $34K/year and also appears to have a great Computer Science program?

As an IL resident, he has Univ of IL Champaign as a choice (not sure if he could get in, very competitive program) or a choice like IL State University (not very competitive I think). IL State would only cost me $14K/year in tuition, but appears to have a "lower" ranked Computer Science program. Is it worth the money to pay $30K, $40K, or $50K per year for a "higher" ranked Computer Science program if he could get in vs. going to IL State for $14K per year, for example? And I guess what I should really say, is it worth it for ME to be paying these higher tuition costs since I will be footing the bill! I just don't want to waste MY money : )

Your advice is appreciated. Also, if I'm missed some schools, feel free to point out programs that you think we should examine. Thanks for your time in advance!

51,870 Princeton
57,280 Williams College
58,640 Amherst College
51,900 Harvard
53700 MIT
59000 Univ of Chicago
56,700 Northwestern
57,700 Univ. of PA
54,600 CA Institue of Tech
57,200 Dartmouth
58,400 Brown
52,000 Vanderbilt
57222 Cornell
49100 Rice
55,200 Washington Uinversity in St. Louis
42,200 UCLA
53,800 Emory
43176 Berkely
58,200 USC
56000 Georgetown
57,100 Carnegie Mellon
53300 NYU
51200 Univ. Of Mich Ann Arbor
50920 Univ. of VA, Charlottesville
33794 Georgia Inst of Tech
58600 Tufts
36,200 UNC Chapel Hill
56000 Univ. of Rochester
43,400 Univ of CA Irvine
43,100 Univ of CA San Diego
56000 B.U.
57,500 Brandeis
51,000 Case Western
46,200 William and Mary
37,785 Univ of WI, Madison
56,800 Tulane
16,000 U of I Champaign
55,200 Lehigh
55,400 Rensaillier
31,100 University of GA
43,000 Centre College
56,390 Gettysburg College
29,000 Purdue
51,900 Univ of MIA
33,700 Univ of PIT
38,700 Univ of Wash
56,500 Southern Methodist
39,800 Univ. of Connectcut
36,900 Univ. Maryland College Park
35,700 U Mass Amherst
52300 Worchester Poly Tech
33,325 Univerisyt of MN Twin Cities
45,710 Wofford College
54,014 Stevens Inst of Tech
49,889 American University
5,790 Brigham Young
47,364 Baylor University
27,791 Binghampton SUNY
47,000 Earlham College
54,000 Wheaton College
39,762 Coloardo School of Mines
29,220 NC State Univ Raleigh
unk Bennington College
unk Hendrix College
52,515 Univerisity of Denver
45,890 Rochester Inst. Of Tech
49000 IL Institue of Tech
43,690 University of Vermont
49,527 Rose Hultman Inst of Tech
********************************
schools below asterisk do not have a linear relationship to those above
24508 Iowa State
41202 Depaul
14816 Univ. of IL Chicago
14516 IL State University
14904 SIU Carbondale
14610 N IL Univ
Florida Institute of Tech
Harvey Mudd
Does college really matter for being a programmer? Most come from out of the country.
kitkat
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Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:46 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by kitkat »

This is so laughable! Are you Jonesing with a neighbor? Sibling? "Friend"?
Let your son figure it out. He'll be a better person for it.
KyleAAA
Posts: 9497
Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 5:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by KyleAAA »

Monsterflockster wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:16 pm
ualdriver wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:01 am Boglehead Brain Trust:

My son and I are starting to look at colleges and universities. He wants to major in Computer Science. He's currently a junior in HS. He's a good student. He's not getting into a top tier college, but he does pretty well and we're happy with his academics (31 ACT composite w/35 math, all AP & Honors courses, B+ student, STEM related extra-curricular activities) I started a spreadsheet using US News and World Report (USNWR) College Rankings for Computer Science as a baseline, crosschecking many of the schools against Google searches and other college "ranking" sites. Below I copied from my spreadsheet a rough "ranking" of schools (at least according to the websites I've consulted). I realize rankings are incredibly, incredibly subjective, hence my questions here. To the left of each college is the annual tuition posted "sticker price" from USNWR.

I realize there are many successful professionals in this industry on this forum. I was wondering what we should be looking for in a Computer Science program? What should we be thinking about? What can we use as discriminators, besides the obvious GPA, ACT, SAT scores that will get a kid admitted in the first place? Should he simply be trying to get into the most competitive school that will take him?

Further, as I initially look at these tuition prices, they vary quite a bit. Even if my kid could get into a University of Chicago at $59,000 (which he doesn't have the grades for anyway), is a high priced, seemingly highly ranked school like this worth the money over a Georgia Tech, for example, that "only" charges $34K/year and also appears to have a great Computer Science program?

As an IL resident, he has Univ of IL Champaign as a choice (not sure if he could get in, very competitive program) or a choice like IL State University (not very competitive I think). IL State would only cost me $14K/year in tuition, but appears to have a "lower" ranked Computer Science program. Is it worth the money to pay $30K, $40K, or $50K per year for a "higher" ranked Computer Science program if he could get in vs. going to IL State for $14K per year, for example? And I guess what I should really say, is it worth it for ME to be paying these higher tuition costs since I will be footing the bill! I just don't want to waste MY money : )

Your advice is appreciated. Also, if I'm missed some schools, feel free to point out programs that you think we should examine. Thanks for your time in advance!

51,870 Princeton
57,280 Williams College
58,640 Amherst College
51,900 Harvard
53700 MIT
59000 Univ of Chicago
56,700 Northwestern
57,700 Univ. of PA
54,600 CA Institue of Tech
57,200 Dartmouth
58,400 Brown
52,000 Vanderbilt
57222 Cornell
49100 Rice
55,200 Washington Uinversity in St. Louis
42,200 UCLA
53,800 Emory
43176 Berkely
58,200 USC
56000 Georgetown
57,100 Carnegie Mellon
53300 NYU
51200 Univ. Of Mich Ann Arbor
50920 Univ. of VA, Charlottesville
33794 Georgia Inst of Tech
58600 Tufts
36,200 UNC Chapel Hill
56000 Univ. of Rochester
43,400 Univ of CA Irvine
43,100 Univ of CA San Diego
56000 B.U.
57,500 Brandeis
51,000 Case Western
46,200 William and Mary
37,785 Univ of WI, Madison
56,800 Tulane
16,000 U of I Champaign
55,200 Lehigh
55,400 Rensaillier
31,100 University of GA
43,000 Centre College
56,390 Gettysburg College
29,000 Purdue
51,900 Univ of MIA
33,700 Univ of PIT
38,700 Univ of Wash
56,500 Southern Methodist
39,800 Univ. of Connectcut
36,900 Univ. Maryland College Park
35,700 U Mass Amherst
52300 Worchester Poly Tech
33,325 Univerisyt of MN Twin Cities
45,710 Wofford College
54,014 Stevens Inst of Tech
49,889 American University
5,790 Brigham Young
47,364 Baylor University
27,791 Binghampton SUNY
47,000 Earlham College
54,000 Wheaton College
39,762 Coloardo School of Mines
29,220 NC State Univ Raleigh
unk Bennington College
unk Hendrix College
52,515 Univerisity of Denver
45,890 Rochester Inst. Of Tech
49000 IL Institue of Tech
43,690 University of Vermont
49,527 Rose Hultman Inst of Tech
********************************
schools below asterisk do not have a linear relationship to those above
24508 Iowa State
41202 Depaul
14816 Univ. of IL Chicago
14516 IL State University
14904 SIU Carbondale
14610 N IL Univ
Florida Institute of Tech
Harvey Mudd
Does college really matter for being a programmer? Most come from out of the country.
You don't get a CS degree to be a programmer.
flyingcows
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:13 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by flyingcows »

I think it's great how much thought you have put into this, I don't think it makes a huge difference, as long as he graduates from one of them :mrgreen: . This is a great field in my opinion, I am thankful to have been drawn to it myself, as long as your son enjoys the field he will probably do well.

In my experience, the pedigree of one's educational background has little if any meaningful impact for most "CS" related careers. At least that has been my experience working at multiple well known technology companies. Most people in this industry are treated with skepticism until proven otherwise, regardless of background. I have worked with many folks with a BS or MS from GT and think very highly of all of them. I have also worked with folks who I know graduated from MIT and Stanford, I don't categorize them any differently.

P.S. I only applied to 1 university, an unknown state school that was within 30 minutes of where I lived at the time because I didn't want to move.
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Normchad
Posts: 5630
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Normchad »

flyingcows wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:31 am I think it's great how much thought you have put into this, I don't think it makes a huge difference, as long as he graduates from one of them :mrgreen: . This is a great field in my opinion, I am thankful to have been drawn to it myself, as long as your son enjoys the field he will probably do well.

In my experience, the pedigree of one's educational background has little if any meaningful impact for most "CS" related careers. At least that has been my experience working at multiple well known technology companies. Most people in this industry are treated with skepticism until proven otherwise, regardless of background. I have worked with many folks with a BS or MS from GT and think very highly of all of them. I have also worked with folks who I know graduated from MIT and Stanford, I don't categorize them any differently.

P.S. I only applied to 1 university, an unknown state school that was within 30 minutes of where I lived at the time because I didn't want to move.
+1. This has been my experience as well.

For CS, the demand for new grads is enormous. Thousands of companies are hiring. And the big name companies have a voracious s appetite, and will recruit on-campus at all the good schools.

On campus recruiting is still important. But it is much less important than it used to be. The big name companies (and lots of smaller ones too) are very proactively recruiting through LinkedIn, gitHub, stack exchange, etc.

I’d recommend to all students, setup and curate a really good git repo for yourself. We definitely spend a lot of time looking at what kids have in their public git repos. It says as much about you as your resume does.
kbjeffrey
Posts: 66
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by kbjeffrey »

I'm also an Illinois resident (in Chicago) and I was a professor at DePaul before I decided I'd rather start up a software company. In general the benefits of a state university you pay less and often learn from professors who are leaders in their fields. At a private university like DePaul, you get professors who are evaluated as much on the quality of teaching as on their research. There are lots of good state schools in the midwest. It might be worth considering University of Illinois at Chicago. The cost is reasonable and they have a strong program. Also, there are lots of tech companies in Chicago and there could be opportunities for internships or for making connections for jobs after school.
Valuethinker
Posts: 48944
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Valuethinker »

RetiredCSProf wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:10 am I'm retired with a PhD in CS. I have taught at several universities (including two on your list), although most of my career was spent in the engineering industry. I'll give some comments, but I can be more helpful once you have narrowed the list. Also, I suggest looking at the College Confidential website -- it can be a bit elitist, but lots of good info there.

Many of the schools on your list have excellent programs but are top tier and would be a big reach for your son. It's a good idea to apply to 3 or 4 "reach" schools; more than that can be discouraging. MIT, Cal Tech, and Harvey Mudd are top engineering schools with low acceptance rates. The CS program at Harvard has been known for its theoretical studies -- if you happen to visit Harvard, make sure to stop at the exhibit of the Mark I computer.

There are some excellent state universities on your list, not as selective as the top tier, but still quite competitive. UC Irvine, UMass-Amherst, and Univ of Washington established their reputations with a focus in software engineering.

Have you "missed some schools"? Yes -- most schools have a CS program. Not all schools have an accredited CS program, so that may be something to consider, along with whether your son is more interested in theory / research, engineering, software engineering, or systems engineering.
I suppose I should at least raise the flag here for University of Waterloo Ontario Canada although it is extremely competitive & I don't know about costs. The Co Op programme in particular leads to jobs w top US tech cos. A friend's grandson has done that.

U of Toronto is probably nearly as good for undergrad comp sci but it is a big urban campus w a commuter population and can be isolating.

University of British Columbia for the setting but an American is probably better off at U Washington.

The reality is most of these undergrad programmes will be very similar. What will differ will be fellow students: the competition at Caltech MIT, probably CMU, will be ferocious.

If Va Tech has a good school atmosphere I would consider it.

The most important thing is fit w the university culture and the programme culture. It is very easy to get lost in early years of university and that really sets you back. I have a nephew doing computer engineering at Queens U in Ontario and it's an excellent programme, small campus and he had been having fun. No one outside of Canada will have heard of it but he can do an MSc somewhere afterwards.

Where does the kid like the campus and the vibe?

That I believe is more important than whether the programme is ranked number 5 or number 15.

The other thing is getting exposure to profs and working on projects for them in upper years. That is invaluable.
flyingaway
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by flyingaway »

A CS professor here. If your son is only interested in a BS degree and a good industrial job, any top state universities will be OK. Doing summer intern work at good companies is more important than studying in classroom. I favor big state schools over small private schools for science and engineering programs.

If he is interested in research careers later, a top state universities at a good state, such as UCal, UIUC, etc. will be better, as well as the Ivy league schools. But a PhD at a really good school is a must, he will be paid to study for a PhD.

Having said that, my friends would all send their kids to Ivy league schools (even for an English major) if they could, because the parents can brag that their kids are in such schools and they have money.
Monsterflockster
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Monsterflockster »

KyleAAA wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:36 pm
Monsterflockster wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:16 pm
ualdriver wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:01 am Boglehead Brain Trust:

My son and I are starting to look at colleges and universities. He wants to major in Computer Science. He's currently a junior in HS. He's a good student. He's not getting into a top tier college, but he does pretty well and we're happy with his academics (31 ACT composite w/35 math, all AP & Honors courses, B+ student, STEM related extra-curricular activities) I started a spreadsheet using US News and World Report (USNWR) College Rankings for Computer Science as a baseline, crosschecking many of the schools against Google searches and other college "ranking" sites. Below I copied from my spreadsheet a rough "ranking" of schools (at least according to the websites I've consulted). I realize rankings are incredibly, incredibly subjective, hence my questions here. To the left of each college is the annual tuition posted "sticker price" from USNWR.

I realize there are many successful professionals in this industry on this forum. I was wondering what we should be looking for in a Computer Science program? What should we be thinking about? What can we use as discriminators, besides the obvious GPA, ACT, SAT scores that will get a kid admitted in the first place? Should he simply be trying to get into the most competitive school that will take him?

Further, as I initially look at these tuition prices, they vary quite a bit. Even if my kid could get into a University of Chicago at $59,000 (which he doesn't have the grades for anyway), is a high priced, seemingly highly ranked school like this worth the money over a Georgia Tech, for example, that "only" charges $34K/year and also appears to have a great Computer Science program?

As an IL resident, he has Univ of IL Champaign as a choice (not sure if he could get in, very competitive program) or a choice like IL State University (not very competitive I think). IL State would only cost me $14K/year in tuition, but appears to have a "lower" ranked Computer Science program. Is it worth the money to pay $30K, $40K, or $50K per year for a "higher" ranked Computer Science program if he could get in vs. going to IL State for $14K per year, for example? And I guess what I should really say, is it worth it for ME to be paying these higher tuition costs since I will be footing the bill! I just don't want to waste MY money : )

Your advice is appreciated. Also, if I'm missed some schools, feel free to point out programs that you think we should examine. Thanks for your time in advance!

51,870 Princeton
57,280 Williams College
58,640 Amherst College
51,900 Harvard
53700 MIT
59000 Univ of Chicago
56,700 Northwestern
57,700 Univ. of PA
54,600 CA Institue of Tech
57,200 Dartmouth
58,400 Brown
52,000 Vanderbilt
57222 Cornell
49100 Rice
55,200 Washington Uinversity in St. Louis
42,200 UCLA
53,800 Emory
43176 Berkely
58,200 USC
56000 Georgetown
57,100 Carnegie Mellon
53300 NYU
51200 Univ. Of Mich Ann Arbor
50920 Univ. of VA, Charlottesville
33794 Georgia Inst of Tech
58600 Tufts
36,200 UNC Chapel Hill
56000 Univ. of Rochester
43,400 Univ of CA Irvine
43,100 Univ of CA San Diego
56000 B.U.
57,500 Brandeis
51,000 Case Western
46,200 William and Mary
37,785 Univ of WI, Madison
56,800 Tulane
16,000 U of I Champaign
55,200 Lehigh
55,400 Rensaillier
31,100 University of GA
43,000 Centre College
56,390 Gettysburg College
29,000 Purdue
51,900 Univ of MIA
33,700 Univ of PIT
38,700 Univ of Wash
56,500 Southern Methodist
39,800 Univ. of Connectcut
36,900 Univ. Maryland College Park
35,700 U Mass Amherst
52300 Worchester Poly Tech
33,325 Univerisyt of MN Twin Cities
45,710 Wofford College
54,014 Stevens Inst of Tech
49,889 American University
5,790 Brigham Young
47,364 Baylor University
27,791 Binghampton SUNY
47,000 Earlham College
54,000 Wheaton College
39,762 Coloardo School of Mines
29,220 NC State Univ Raleigh
unk Bennington College
unk Hendrix College
52,515 Univerisity of Denver
45,890 Rochester Inst. Of Tech
49000 IL Institue of Tech
43,690 University of Vermont
49,527 Rose Hultman Inst of Tech
********************************
schools below asterisk do not have a linear relationship to those above
24508 Iowa State
41202 Depaul
14816 Univ. of IL Chicago
14516 IL State University
14904 SIU Carbondale
14610 N IL Univ
Florida Institute of Tech
Harvey Mudd
Does college really matter for being a programmer? Most come from out of the country.
You don't get a CS degree to be a programmer.
Mmmm... everyone I know with a CS degree (it’s a lot, I lived in Silicon Valley for 30+ years worked tech and wrote software. But ok.
Valuethinker
Posts: 48944
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Valuethinker »

flyingaway wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:34 am A CS professor here. If your son is only interested in a BS degree and a good industrial job, any top state universities will be OK. Doing summer intern work at good companies is more important than studying in classroom. I favor big state schools over small private schools for science and engineering programs.

If he is interested in research careers later, a top state universities at a good state, such as UCal, UIUC, etc. will be better, as well as the Ivy league schools. But a PhD at a really good school is a must, he will be paid to study for a PhD.

Having said that, my friends would all send their kids to Ivy league schools (even for an English major) if they could, because the parents can brag that their kids are in such schools and they have money.
Harvard, Stanford, Yale and Princeton seem to give a cachet, and access to top flight opportunities, that other Ivy schools do not. To them, I might add a few 4 year colleges like Swarthmore (maybe).

(then you get things like Wharton - undergrad business at Penn - that is probably the top undergraduate business degree in the US (places like UVA number 2, perhaps? In France that would be HEC - French graduates tend to go into the careers their degrees preselected them for: business at HEC, engineering at Polytechnique, political science at Sciences Po, etc).

There is a book, by an author with a name like Carmen Rivera, Recruiting Elites (or Selecting Elites). It is a good academic study of how McKinsey, Goldman Sachs, Skadden Arps, etc hire. One thing to watch is that a working class kid at Harvard may just not acquire the polish that will get them one of those jobs at graduation. I have worked for bosses who only hired from Cambridge and Oxford undergrads, however (our version of the Ivys).

But generally what you say is absolutely correct. And if you are going for an academic career, it's going to be where you did your PhD. An unusual percentage of professors say have MIT undergrad degrees (or Caltech) because those universities recruit amazing undergrads.

In my day the top 3 CS schools where probably Berkeley, Stanford and CMU. I have no idea how it is now.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by TomatoTomahto »

Valuethinker wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:54 pm Harvard, Stanford, Yale and Princeton seem to give a cachet, and access to top flight opportunities, that other Ivy schools do not. To them, I might add a few 4 year colleges like Swarthmore (maybe).
DS got a combined MS/BS in CS at Yale. The CS department is not one of the “well regarded” ones nationally, which can work to a committed student’s benefit as they can get a lot of professors’ attention and mentoring (and acceptance to combined degree program). We have no complaints and neither does he :D
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
KyleAAA
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by KyleAAA »

Monsterflockster wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:56 am
KyleAAA wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:36 pm
Monsterflockster wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:16 pm
ualdriver wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:01 am Boglehead Brain Trust:

My son and I are starting to look at colleges and universities. He wants to major in Computer Science. He's currently a junior in HS. He's a good student. He's not getting into a top tier college, but he does pretty well and we're happy with his academics (31 ACT composite w/35 math, all AP & Honors courses, B+ student, STEM related extra-curricular activities) I started a spreadsheet using US News and World Report (USNWR) College Rankings for Computer Science as a baseline, crosschecking many of the schools against Google searches and other college "ranking" sites. Below I copied from my spreadsheet a rough "ranking" of schools (at least according to the websites I've consulted). I realize rankings are incredibly, incredibly subjective, hence my questions here. To the left of each college is the annual tuition posted "sticker price" from USNWR.

I realize there are many successful professionals in this industry on this forum. I was wondering what we should be looking for in a Computer Science program? What should we be thinking about? What can we use as discriminators, besides the obvious GPA, ACT, SAT scores that will get a kid admitted in the first place? Should he simply be trying to get into the most competitive school that will take him?

Further, as I initially look at these tuition prices, they vary quite a bit. Even if my kid could get into a University of Chicago at $59,000 (which he doesn't have the grades for anyway), is a high priced, seemingly highly ranked school like this worth the money over a Georgia Tech, for example, that "only" charges $34K/year and also appears to have a great Computer Science program?

As an IL resident, he has Univ of IL Champaign as a choice (not sure if he could get in, very competitive program) or a choice like IL State University (not very competitive I think). IL State would only cost me $14K/year in tuition, but appears to have a "lower" ranked Computer Science program. Is it worth the money to pay $30K, $40K, or $50K per year for a "higher" ranked Computer Science program if he could get in vs. going to IL State for $14K per year, for example? And I guess what I should really say, is it worth it for ME to be paying these higher tuition costs since I will be footing the bill! I just don't want to waste MY money : )

Your advice is appreciated. Also, if I'm missed some schools, feel free to point out programs that you think we should examine. Thanks for your time in advance!

51,870 Princeton
57,280 Williams College
58,640 Amherst College
51,900 Harvard
53700 MIT
59000 Univ of Chicago
56,700 Northwestern
57,700 Univ. of PA
54,600 CA Institue of Tech
57,200 Dartmouth
58,400 Brown
52,000 Vanderbilt
57222 Cornell
49100 Rice
55,200 Washington Uinversity in St. Louis
42,200 UCLA
53,800 Emory
43176 Berkely
58,200 USC
56000 Georgetown
57,100 Carnegie Mellon
53300 NYU
51200 Univ. Of Mich Ann Arbor
50920 Univ. of VA, Charlottesville
33794 Georgia Inst of Tech
58600 Tufts
36,200 UNC Chapel Hill
56000 Univ. of Rochester
43,400 Univ of CA Irvine
43,100 Univ of CA San Diego
56000 B.U.
57,500 Brandeis
51,000 Case Western
46,200 William and Mary
37,785 Univ of WI, Madison
56,800 Tulane
16,000 U of I Champaign
55,200 Lehigh
55,400 Rensaillier
31,100 University of GA
43,000 Centre College
56,390 Gettysburg College
29,000 Purdue
51,900 Univ of MIA
33,700 Univ of PIT
38,700 Univ of Wash
56,500 Southern Methodist
39,800 Univ. of Connectcut
36,900 Univ. Maryland College Park
35,700 U Mass Amherst
52300 Worchester Poly Tech
33,325 Univerisyt of MN Twin Cities
45,710 Wofford College
54,014 Stevens Inst of Tech
49,889 American University
5,790 Brigham Young
47,364 Baylor University
27,791 Binghampton SUNY
47,000 Earlham College
54,000 Wheaton College
39,762 Coloardo School of Mines
29,220 NC State Univ Raleigh
unk Bennington College
unk Hendrix College
52,515 Univerisity of Denver
45,890 Rochester Inst. Of Tech
49000 IL Institue of Tech
43,690 University of Vermont
49,527 Rose Hultman Inst of Tech
********************************
schools below asterisk do not have a linear relationship to those above
24508 Iowa State
41202 Depaul
14816 Univ. of IL Chicago
14516 IL State University
14904 SIU Carbondale
14610 N IL Univ
Florida Institute of Tech
Harvey Mudd
Does college really matter for being a programmer? Most come from out of the country.
You don't get a CS degree to be a programmer.
Mmmm... everyone I know with a CS degree (it’s a lot, I lived in Silicon Valley for 30+ years worked tech and wrote software. But ok.
Yes, they are software engineers. Programmers are different.
LukeHeinz57
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by LukeHeinz57 »

Any chance of an update on this thread from the OP? Thanks in advance if you elect to take the time to do so ualdriver...
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ualdriver
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by ualdriver »

LukeHeinz57 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:00 pm Any chance of an update on this thread from the OP? Thanks in advance if you elect to take the time to do so ualdriver...
Yes, I can update. I didn't simply because I wasn't sure if anyone would be interested : )

My son applied to 9 schools. He got shot down at his first and second choices- U of I Champaign and Purdue @ Lafayette, which was disappointing. He also was shot down at University of Minnesota Twin Cities.

He got accepted to:
Iowa State Science and Technology
Michigan Tech
Illinois Institute of Technology
University of IL Chicago
Missouri Science and Tech
Illinois State

We are very, very fortunate in that all of the schools he got accepted to offered him sizable scholarships except U of I Chicago, but we'll get in-state tuition there anyway. Out of the 6 above, he eliminated Illinois Institute of Technology (nice school, higher cost, didn't like it as much as the others), Missouri Science and Tech (didn't like it as much as the others when we visited it), and Illinois State.

We did an admissions tour of Michigan Tech last week and we were both quite surprised how nice a school it was. It definitely made the short list, but man is it WAY up north.

We have an admissions tour of Iowa State this week.

U of I Chicago isn't doing admissions tours because of COVID unfortunately. We're going to visit the campus again sometime in the up and coming days and just walk around, try to get into the Computer Science buildings, community buildings, stuff like that. He's been doing the on-line presentations that their admissions people have been offering.

So that's where we are. He has to make a decision by May 1st. After scholarships, the three will all cost about the same. Well, maybe Iowa would be several thousand dollars cheaper per year apples to apples.

If anyone has any experiences with the "final 3" we're glad to listen. Per the opinions posted above, we're thinking it really won't matter which school he chooses career-wise. At this point I think he is just trying to find the school that will be the best fit.
MMiroir
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by MMiroir »

ualdriver wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:54 pmMy son applied to 9 schools. He got shot down at his first and second choices- U of I Champaign and Purdue @ Lafayette, which was disappointing. He also was shot down at University of Minnesota Twin Cities.

He got accepted to:
Iowa State Science and Technology
Michigan Tech
Illinois Institute of Technology
University of IL Chicago
Missouri Science and Tech
Illinois State
Of those schools, all will probably provide the same level of CS education, but Iowa State will probably give the most traditional four year college experience with big time sports. It is a pretty campus as well, and they have a good national reputation as an engineering school. That would probably be my first choice.

That said, a kid we know was in a similar position to your son, and didn't get into UIUC or the nearby flagships for CS. He ended up going to UIC, graduating in three years, and getting a job at Google as a software engineer, so there might be some worth to staying close to Chicago although UIC as a school overall is not very appealing.
Nyc10036
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Nyc10036 »

Any chance of transfering from U of I - Chicago to the main campus after 1 or 2?
cableguy
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by cableguy »

Check out U of Maryland. It checks many boxes. Its a top 20 Computer Science school. Great alumni that give back to the school and CS program. Great campus that is not far from DC. Big military, NSA, CIA, FBI, NASA, Big Tech, Fortune 500, etc. all hire their students. And most importantly...if your child decides to switch majors, there's a good chance U of Maryland not only offers that new program...it will also be a top 20 program. Good luck!
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22twain
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by 22twain »

cableguy wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:13 pm Check out U of Maryland.
Kind of late in this year's admissions cycle, isn't it?

Check the dates on the posts in this thread, including the most recent ones.
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Zillions »

Can anyone give me feedback on the undergraduate CS program at UC-Davis or UC-Irvine, please? Which Universities to choose if a student wants to pursue cyber security or database administration?

Thanks!
Elysium
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Elysium »

Zillions wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:06 pm Can anyone give me feedback on the undergraduate CS program at UC-Davis or UC-Irvine, please? Which Universities to choose if a student wants to pursue cyber security or database administration?

Thanks!
UCD or UCI isn't worth the cost for OOS students, but does make sense for CA residents. UC-Irvine is ranked slightly better than UC-Davis for CS. They are both good enough schools in the Top 40. If you want a good CyberSecurity program in the East coast, then look at George Mason (GMU) in DC, with excellent job prospects. With Amazon campus coming, their career prospects are only going to increase.
RetiredCSProf
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by RetiredCSProf »

UC-Irvine has an excellent reputation for software engineering. I don't know anything about the CS program at Davis -- they have a good school for pharmacy and a veterinarian school. Maybe look at U Maryland and CMU for cybersecurity
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ualdriver
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by ualdriver »

Nyc10036 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:09 pm Any chance of transfering from U of I - Chicago to the main campus after 1 or 2?
I guess it could be a possibility. Not sure.
Elysium
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Elysium »

RetiredCSProf wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:22 pm UC-Irvine has an excellent reputation for software engineering. I don't know anything about the CS program at Davis -- they have a good school for pharmacy and a veterinarian school. Maybe look at U Maryland and CMU for cybersecurity
Nearly impossible to get into CMU CS, even with near perfect stats and test scores. UMD-CP is also highly competitive, but not as hard. UC-Irvine may be easier to get into than both of these, but the cost for non CA residents run north of $70k for UC's, which makes anything other than Berkeley & UCLA not worthwhile. We decided not to apply to UC's for our son this year, because he wasn't likely to get into either of the top 2 in the system and then didn't want to spend all that money on other schools in the system.
Last edited by Elysium on Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Big Dog
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Big Dog »

ualdriver wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:54 pm
LukeHeinz57 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:00 pm Any chance of an update on this thread from the OP? Thanks in advance if you elect to take the time to do so ualdriver...
Yes, I can update. I didn't simply because I wasn't sure if anyone would be interested : )

My son applied to 9 schools. He got shot down at his first and second choices- U of I Champaign and Purdue @ Lafayette, which was disappointing. He also was shot down at University of Minnesota Twin Cities.

He got accepted to:
Iowa State Science and Technology
Michigan Tech
Illinois Institute of Technology
University of IL Chicago
Missouri Science and Tech
Illinois State

We are very, very fortunate in that all of the schools he got accepted to offered him sizable scholarships except U of I Chicago, but we'll get in-state tuition there anyway. Out of the 6 above, he eliminated Illinois Institute of Technology (nice school, higher cost, didn't like it as much as the others), Missouri Science and Tech (didn't like it as much as the others when we visited it), and Illinois State.

We did an admissions tour of Michigan Tech last week and we were both quite surprised how nice a school it was. It definitely made the short list, but man is it WAY up north.

We have an admissions tour of Iowa State this week.

U of I Chicago isn't doing admissions tours because of COVID unfortunately. We're going to visit the campus again sometime in the up and coming days and just walk around, try to get into the Computer Science buildings, community buildings, stuff like that. He's been doing the on-line presentations that their admissions people have been offering.

So that's where we are. He has to make a decision by May 1st. After scholarships, the three will all cost about the same. Well, maybe Iowa would be several thousand dollars cheaper per year apples to apples.

If anyone has any experiences with the "final 3" we're glad to listen. Per the opinions posted above, we're thinking it really won't matter which school he chooses career-wise. At this point I think he is just trying to find the school that will be the best fit.
fwiw: my D's boyfriend is a grad of Michigan Tech (EECS) and is now a Manager at Apple in Cupertino. He loved his collegiate experience, but then he was from upper Minnesota, so cold is cold. :D
Big Dog
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Big Dog »

RetiredCSProf wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:22 pm UC-Irvine has an excellent reputation for software engineering. I don't know anything about the CS program at Davis -- they have a good school for pharmacy and a veterinarian school. Maybe look at U Maryland and CMU for cybersecurity
Actually, Davis is higher ranked in Engineering than Irvine. That said, it doesn't much matter since CS jobs are plentiful. Note, however, majors are impacted so if instate, make sure you are accepted directly into the school of Engineering. It is virtually impossible to transfer from Letters & Sciences into Engineering later.

Agree with the others, UC is not good value at OOS rates.
TheHiker
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by TheHiker »

I don't think the choice of a school for computer science (which is not considered top tier like Stanford or MIT) matters very much and a particular specializations matter even less.
Our child decided to go to a school not on your list (though was accepted at some which are).
The decision was based on cost and proximity to both home and potential employers.
Got the job offer from one of the FAANG companies before even graduating...

It does matter if CS is an impacted major at a particular school or if the required classes are difficult to enroll in. Research that in advance.
UCD and UCI are probably not worth the cost for out-of state. UCD is known more for agricultural sciences that CS.
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celia
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by celia »

ualdriver wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:54 pm If anyone has any experiences with the "final 3" we're glad to listen. Per the opinions posted above, we're thinking it really won't matter which school he chooses career-wise. At this point I think he is just trying to find the school that will be the best fit.
Very good, so far. What I suggest is to look online at the 3 remaining schools to see their CS graduation requirements and descriptions of the courses that are required and optional. It might be in the school's catalog of courses. I could make a choice based on that alone, but that's just me.

Along the way, see if the major has "emphasis" courses, sort of like sub-majors. He should go with what appeals to him, while also seeking breadth in the field, which the major likely provides.
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by cshell2 »

ualdriver wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 4:54 pm
LukeHeinz57 wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:00 pm Any chance of an update on this thread from the OP? Thanks in advance if you elect to take the time to do so ualdriver...
Yes, I can update. I didn't simply because I wasn't sure if anyone would be interested : )

My son applied to 9 schools. He got shot down at his first and second choices- U of I Champaign and Purdue @ Lafayette, which was disappointing. He also was shot down at University of Minnesota Twin Cities.

He got accepted to:
Iowa State Science and Technology
Michigan Tech
Illinois Institute of Technology
University of IL Chicago
Missouri Science and Tech
Illinois State

We are very, very fortunate in that all of the schools he got accepted to offered him sizable scholarships except U of I Chicago, but we'll get in-state tuition there anyway. Out of the 6 above, he eliminated Illinois Institute of Technology (nice school, higher cost, didn't like it as much as the others), Missouri Science and Tech (didn't like it as much as the others when we visited it), and Illinois State.

We did an admissions tour of Michigan Tech last week and we were both quite surprised how nice a school it was. It definitely made the short list, but man is it WAY up north.

We have an admissions tour of Iowa State this week.

U of I Chicago isn't doing admissions tours because of COVID unfortunately. We're going to visit the campus again sometime in the up and coming days and just walk around, try to get into the Computer Science buildings, community buildings, stuff like that. He's been doing the on-line presentations that their admissions people have been offering.

So that's where we are. He has to make a decision by May 1st. After scholarships, the three will all cost about the same. Well, maybe Iowa would be several thousand dollars cheaper per year apples to apples.

If anyone has any experiences with the "final 3" we're glad to listen. Per the opinions posted above, we're thinking it really won't matter which school he chooses career-wise. At this point I think he is just trying to find the school that will be the best fit.
Iowa State is wonderful. I fell in love with that school and was a little sad when DS didn't choose it, but he got an extremely good deal at our in-state school (MN) so I'm over it. He was going for engineering though, I really don't know much about their CS program.
techiegirl
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by techiegirl »

Elysium wrote: Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:19 pm
UCD or UCI isn't worth the cost for OOS students, but does make sense for CA residents. UC-Irvine is ranked slightly better than UC-Davis for CS. They are both good enough schools in the Top 40. If you want a good CyberSecurity program in the East coast, then look at George Mason (GMU) in DC, with excellent job prospects. With Amazon campus coming, their career prospects are only going to increase.
My daughter was accepted to UCI, UCD, and UCSD this year as a computer science/engineering major. She decided to decline all 3 because of the high out of state cost. Only one of the 3 offered her a scholarship. She opted to stay in state instead.
Dregob
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Re: Choosing a university/college for my son a future Computer Science Major

Post by Dregob »

If your child goes to Princeton or Duke or UNC and majors in Comp Sci their starting salary will be the same. Raises will depend on job performance.
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