Refinance Mega Thread

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CT-Scott
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CT-Scott »

mervinj7 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:24 pmJust to clarify, when I mean no-cost closing I'm not talking about rolling in the costs. I mean you accept a higher interest rate for no points and some lender credit. Ideally the lender credits should offset some of the fixed costs including appraisal fee, origination fee, and/or recording fee.
Gotcha. Is that what everyone else in this thread means when they say "no-cost closing"? So I was pretty sure that the rep I spoke with from Better indicated that we could modify later not only the closing costs that we chose to roll in but also the points we were willing to pay. And I thought that my Better portal showed me the various points/rate options, but I'm not seeing that anymore. Instead, I just see my "locked in rate". I could inquire about this.

But if I *could* still adjust the points at this stage, I think it would still leave me thinking that paying the points is the better approach for my situation (no desire to move, and no desire to pay off early).
MiddleOfTheRoad
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MiddleOfTheRoad »

CT-Scott wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:29 pm
mervinj7 wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:24 pmJust to clarify, when I mean no-cost closing I'm not talking about rolling in the costs. I mean you accept a higher interest rate for no points and some lender credit. Ideally the lender credits should offset some of the fixed costs including appraisal fee, origination fee, and/or recording fee.
Gotcha. Is that what everyone else in this thread means when they say "no-cost closing"? So I was pretty sure that the rep I spoke with from Better indicated that we could modify later not only the closing costs that we chose to roll in but also the points we were willing to pay. And I thought that my Better portal showed me the various points/rate options, but I'm not seeing that anymore. Instead, I just see my "locked in rate". I could inquire about this.

But if I *could* still adjust the points at this stage, I think it would still leave me thinking that paying the points is the better approach for my situation (no desire to move, and no desire to pay off early).
My advice for you is to sit tight at your current mortgage rate and wait. You already have a great rate with your current mortgage. Do not refi at those terms. It makes very little sense to pay that much in points.
CT-Scott
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CT-Scott »

MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:40 pmMy advice for you is to sit tight at your current mortgage rate and wait. You already have a great rate with your current mortgage. Do not refi at those terms. It makes very little sense to pay that much in points.
So, FWIW, I just tried going through the questionnaire at lendingtree and was shown some better-looking quotes from loanDepot. I'm not sure how accurate those up-front quotes are, so I guess I'll probably need to go through the application process to confirm. But it's showing me a rate of 2.125% (2.294% APR w/$8,424 / 1.872% in points), a rate of 2.250% (2.349% APR w/$4,261.50 / 0.947% in points), and a rate of 2.500% (2.527% APR w/no points).

If nothing else, maybe I can use this as a bargaining chip. The appraisal was waived w/Better, so the only thing I've lost at this point is a minor ding to my wife's credit score.
MiddleOfTheRoad
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MiddleOfTheRoad »

CT-Scott wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 4:03 pm
MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 3:40 pmMy advice for you is to sit tight at your current mortgage rate and wait. You already have a great rate with your current mortgage. Do not refi at those terms. It makes very little sense to pay that much in points.
So, FWIW, I just tried going through the questionnaire at lendingtree and was shown some better-looking quotes from loanDepot. I'm not sure how accurate those up-front quotes are, so I guess I'll probably need to go through the application process to confirm. But it's showing me a rate of 2.125% (2.294% APR w/$8,424 / 1.872% in points), a rate of 2.250% (2.349% APR w/$4,261.50 / 0.947% in points), and a rate of 2.500% (2.527% APR w/no points).

If nothing else, maybe I can use this as a bargaining chip. The appraisal was waived w/Better, so the only thing I've lost at this point is a minor ding to my wife's credit score.
I would pick the 2.5% no point. Then bring that offer back to Better for them to beat. Better.com initial offer are usually comically not competitive.
CT-Scott
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CT-Scott »

MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 4:18 pmI would pick the 2.5% no point. Then bring that offer back to Better for them to beat. Better.com initial offer are usually comically not competitive.
Actually, it looks like those loanDepot rates thru lendingtree were bogus. After getting those initial quotes after just entering some basic info (the same sort of info that Better asks for on their site without committing to anything), I clicked on the Apply button and went through the full-detail and hard-pull process and the official rates they gave me sucked. I'm actually pretty upset about it because I gave them a ton of financial detail (and let them do a hard credit pull) which I wouldn't have done had I been given semi-accurate rates up-front.

FWIW, the Better rate that was given (with very little private info) was only 0.125% better than the official rate they gave me after the hard credit pull (which was understandably explained by wife's credit score coming back slightly higher (still very good, but apparently just above the threshold for their best rate).
zeal4thil
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zeal4thil »

Home Value : 410K
Existing mortgage : 295 K @ 15 years @ 2.375% No Escrow

Getting the following from my long time lender broker (did multiple refinance with him)
2.125 no cost refinance no Escrow

Applied first time from Loan Cabin for 2.0% for which i have to pay $572 as points and they promise only the title fee around 900 and no other closing cost

Is it make sense to pay 572+900(title fee) for the .125% reduction in points or keep it 2.125 with my broker as this option itself reduce .25% from my current 2.375%

I am also not sure how far the rates will go down from here to do another refinance so should i just bite this 572+900 as one time fee to pay down and settle with 2.0% .

Please advise
neitherherenorthere
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by neitherherenorthere »

Thank you to all who took the time to post, reply and give advice in this thread! I learned a lot and applied all the valuable insights shared generously here in my mortgage loan refinancing.

Today my husband and I locked an interest rate of 2.25%, APR 2.288% on a $227k loan over 15 years with Better.

The advisor honored the Bankrate offer which was slightly better earlier during the date. Closing costs will be low around $1,400 with appraisal waived and lender credit. We currently have 21 years left on a 30-yr mortgage at 4.125%. We decided not to buy points and pay higher closing costs. In the end, after all the refinancing costs and the interest over the life of the loan, the difference did not seem not big enough on our loan amount to justify paying upfront.

The Better portal is very good. It took us about 10 min to lock the rate, then 20 min to gather and upload all documents to initiate the underwriting.
My only concern right now is a grossly inflated monthly estimate for the escrow. Out tax cycle results in a large bill in the middle of the year, then low or no payments the rest of the year. Better assured us they would adjust the monthly escrow when we show a statement from our current lender.

Should we wait for the monthly escrow estimate to be adjusted in the loan application before we sign it? Or is the adjustment going to happen later?
Sunrise
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Sunrise »

dks05c wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:26 pm
dks05c wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:35 pm I had little to no interest in refinancing yesterday but now I'm locked into a third refi in 15 months with Better. I refinanced to a 15 yr 2.25% no cost 346k loan (which means 4k in credits due to the high refi costs in FL) back in November 2020. Ive been very happy with that rate and figured I was done refinancing.

Fast forward to yesterday. I was casually browsing Bankrate and a 15 yr 1.75% with around $700 in points at Better popped up. I checked the Better.com website and the rate/points werent as good, so I emailed Better to see if they would match Bankrate. They did, which also updated the other rates/points. Long story short, I locked in a 15 yr 2.0% 334k loan with $3900 in credits, so I'll reduce my rate a quarter point and profit around $500 at closing.
Question for you serial refinancers. How common is it to get blacklisted from previous lenders you negotiated but didn't close with? I'm asking because after locking in my current refinance with Better, I also applied to Loandepot to see if they could compete. However, I haven't heard back from them and when checking the application today, it says "inactive". When I refinance six months ago, I was locked in to loandepot but walked, so I'm wondering if this may be the issue.

I also reached out to Lenderfi, who I also applied with six months ago but didn't lock, and haven't heard back from. I tried to apply last week as well, but I can't because my prior application from 2020 is listed as cancelled, and I need to make a request to have that removed before I submit another application. I also emailed the loan officer I previously worked with and haven't heard back from him.
Regarding LenderFi, I was in the same situation as you describe. You need to use a different email address for your current application that you are trying to submit. It is my understanding (from discussing with an intake processor person at LenderFi) that each application needs to be tied to a unique email address. I just created a new Email Forwarding Alias, and used that for my recent application, worked fine. To summarize, you can't use the same email address that you entered on your (cancelled) application six months ago, try using an alternate email or email alias. Hope that helps.
Sunrise
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Sunrise »

zeal4thil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:23 pm Home Value : 410K
Existing mortgage : 295 K @ 15 years @ 2.375% No Escrow

Getting the following from my long time lender broker (did multiple refinance with him)
2.125 no cost refinance no Escrow

Applied first time from Loan Cabin for 2.0% for which i have to pay $572 as points and they promise only the title fee around 900 and no other closing cost

Is it make sense to pay 572+900(title fee) for the .125% reduction in points or keep it 2.125 with my broker as this option itself reduce .25% from my current 2.375%

I am also not sure how far the rates will go down from here to do another refinance so should i just bite this 572+900 as one time fee to pay down and settle with 2.0% .

Please advise
My thoughts:
How many months will it take to break even on the $1472 costs for the .125% reduction? Do you plan to stay in the house that long?
From reading this thread, sounds like LC can take on the longer side to close.
I think I'd want a true "no cost" refi for only a .125% rate reduction.
I would not bet on rates going much further down from here.
How much closing costs did you pay for your current mortgage?
MiddleOfTheRoad
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MiddleOfTheRoad »

CT-Scott wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 6:29 pm
MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 4:18 pmI would pick the 2.5% no point. Then bring that offer back to Better for them to beat. Better.com initial offer are usually comically not competitive.
Actually, it looks like those loanDepot rates thru lendingtree were bogus. After getting those initial quotes after just entering some basic info (the same sort of info that Better asks for on their site without committing to anything), I clicked on the Apply button and went through the full-detail and hard-pull process and the official rates they gave me sucked. I'm actually pretty upset about it because I gave them a ton of financial detail (and let them do a hard credit pull) which I wouldn't have done had I been given semi-accurate rates up-front.

FWIW, the Better rate that was given (with very little private info) was only 0.125% better than the official rate they gave me after the hard credit pull (which was understandably explained by wife's credit score coming back slightly higher (still very good, but apparently just above the threshold for their best rate).
I am sorry it has not worked out for you yet. Be patient. If you read through this thread, Better will be competitive when they have a competing quote. Otherwise, their initial offer suck.

I can tell you my personal experience. I am currently sitting on a 1.99% 15yr no point no cost offer on a loan of 740k from owning.com’s first offer, not proceeding yet. Better.com initial rate is higher and with thousands in points for the same term. Not even close. My credit is >800.

Best of luck and be patient. Don’t jump at the first offer. That is the gist of this thread.

Edit to add: if all your credit pulls happen within 30d, it will not repeatedly lower your credit score that much. That’s the other important thing I learned from this thread. It is to your advantage to shop around with little consequences to your credit score.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

zeal4thil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:23 pm Home Value : 410K
Existing mortgage : 295 K @ 15 years @ 2.375% No Escrow

Getting the following from my long time lender broker (did multiple refinance with him)
2.125 no cost refinance no Escrow

Applied first time from Loan Cabin for 2.0% for which i have to pay $572 as points and they promise only the title fee around 900 and no other closing cost

Is it make sense to pay 572+900(title fee) for the .125% reduction in points or keep it 2.125 with my broker as this option itself reduce .25% from my current 2.375%

I am also not sure how far the rates will go down from here to do another refinance so should i just bite this 572+900 as one time fee to pay down and settle with 2.0% .

Please advise
If your broker has previously brought you good no-cost refi deals, IMO it is worth keeping that relationship alive given the options you have shared.
zeal4thil
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zeal4thil »

Sunrise wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 10:39 pm
zeal4thil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:23 pm Home Value : 410K
Existing mortgage : 295 K @ 15 years @ 2.375% No Escrow

Getting the following from my long time lender broker (did multiple refinance with him)
2.125 no cost refinance no Escrow

Applied first time from Loan Cabin for 2.0% for which i have to pay $572 as points and they promise only the title fee around 900 and no other closing cost

Is it make sense to pay 572+900(title fee) for the .125% reduction in points or keep it 2.125 with my broker as this option itself reduce .25% from my current 2.375%

I am also not sure how far the rates will go down from here to do another refinance so should i just bite this 572+900 as one time fee to pay down and settle with 2.0% .

Please advise
My thoughts:
How many months will it take to break even on the $1472 costs for the .125% reduction? Do you plan to stay in the house that long?.

From reading this thread, sounds like LC can take on the longer side to close.
I think I'd want a true "no cost" refi for only a .125% rate reduction.
I would not bet on rates going much further down from here.
How much closing costs did you pay for your current mortgage?
Thanks for your views

--> .125% is approx 3k Reduction in life term interest for which i need to upfront shell out 1472 so net net 1500 reduction so looks like not a great savings .
---> LC reputation is questionable in terms of closing time and my broker did atleast 4 refinances in the past 4 years for me and always dependable so i should stick with him

Thanks for all help guys .
zeal4thil
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zeal4thil »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 12:20 am
zeal4thil wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:23 pm Home Value : 410K
Existing mortgage : 295 K @ 15 years @ 2.375% No Escrow

Getting the following from my long time lender broker (did multiple refinance with him)
2.125 no cost refinance no Escrow

Applied first time from Loan Cabin for 2.0% for which i have to pay $572 as points and they promise only the title fee around 900 and no other closing cost

Is it make sense to pay 572+900(title fee) for the .125% reduction in points or keep it 2.125 with my broker as this option itself reduce .25% from my current 2.375%

I am also not sure how far the rates will go down from here to do another refinance so should i just bite this 572+900 as one time fee to pay down and settle with 2.0% .

Please advise
If your broker has previously brought you good no-cost refi deals, IMO it is worth keeping that relationship alive given the options you have shared.
Thanks for your views . i think its worth to keep the relationship for a 1500 net savings over 15 years as per the calc..
ee22bee
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ee22bee »

On getting lenders to meet or beat competitive offers... When sending Lender A's offer to Lender B to match/beat, I'd do this before locking with either side, correct? Since rates can change daily, if Lender B doesn't respond the same day, do I risk losing Lender A's quote if rates increase while I wait to hear back from Lender B?

I'm about to start my refinance adventure, so want to make sure I understand when to lock if trying to get one to match/beat another. I have learned a ton from this thread. Thank you everyone!
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

Sunrise wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 10:24 pm
dks05c wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:26 pm
dks05c wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:35 pm I had little to no interest in refinancing yesterday but now I'm locked into a third refi in 15 months with Better. I refinanced to a 15 yr 2.25% no cost 346k loan (which means 4k in credits due to the high refi costs in FL) back in November 2020. Ive been very happy with that rate and figured I was done refinancing.

Fast forward to yesterday. I was casually browsing Bankrate and a 15 yr 1.75% with around $700 in points at Better popped up. I checked the Better.com website and the rate/points werent as good, so I emailed Better to see if they would match Bankrate. They did, which also updated the other rates/points. Long story short, I locked in a 15 yr 2.0% 334k loan with $3900 in credits, so I'll reduce my rate a quarter point and profit around $500 at closing.
Question for you serial refinancers. How common is it to get blacklisted from previous lenders you negotiated but didn't close with? I'm asking because after locking in my current refinance with Better, I also applied to Loandepot to see if they could compete. However, I haven't heard back from them and when checking the application today, it says "inactive". When I refinance six months ago, I was locked in to loandepot but walked, so I'm wondering if this may be the issue.

I also reached out to Lenderfi, who I also applied with six months ago but didn't lock, and haven't heard back from. I tried to apply last week as well, but I can't because my prior application from 2020 is listed as cancelled, and I need to make a request to have that removed before I submit another application. I also emailed the loan officer I previously worked with and haven't heard back from him.
Regarding LenderFi, I was in the same situation as you describe. You need to use a different email address for your current application that you are trying to submit. It is my understanding (from discussing with an intake processor person at LenderFi) that each application needs to be tied to a unique email address. I just created a new Email Forwarding Alias, and used that for my recent application, worked fine. To summarize, you can't use the same email address that you entered on your (cancelled) application six months ago, try using an alternate email or email alias. Hope that helps.
Thanks, good to know about LenderFi. I'll probably try to apply using my alternate e-mail address. Hopefully I get a better loan originator this time, I wasn't a fan of the first.

Loan Depot did get back to me after a few days, but couldn't match Better's offer.
jakester03
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jakester03 »

I did some preliminary searching on this thread, but can someone help me out with the A+B+C stuff?
Fredz4000
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Fredz4000 »

Working on this offer from Quicken after they matched a similar one from Better. Right now we're at 3.75/30yr with 393,000 remaining - so this would save us quite a bit:

Loan Amount: 402,000
Rate: 2.75/ Apr: 2.78
Monthly Principal and Interest: 1641
Mortgage Insurance: 34 (falls off after 2 years)
Estimated Closing Costs: 6476 (lender credit: 821 / loan cost: 1852 / rest is escrow)

Better had me worried so I went over to Rocket/Quicken. I initially stared a loan with Better 3 weeks ago and communication has been pretty spotty... not sure if the Quicken will go a little more smoothly or if there's still time go get another quote...
soobaerodude
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by soobaerodude »

jakester03 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 4:36 pm I did some preliminary searching on this thread, but can someone help me out with the A+B+C stuff?
This post about refinancing over at Slickdeals explains it:
https://slickdeals.net/f/14173061-07-21 ... t138528260
flyonnylon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by flyonnylon »

Was working with BoA for a 30 yr fixed refi at 2.875 but they were a bit of hassle so checked out Better and today locked in 2.375 30 yr fixed.

A bit more closing costs but am planning to stay in the house for at least six more years and the better rate pays for itself in one so seems worth it especially if savings ($300/mo over BoA rate; $600/mo compared to current 4% note) are invested.
CalcHP12c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by CalcHP12c »

Closed on Lenderfi refi in 8 days!!! Applied during a lunch break, uploaded some pdf documentation, a few electronic signatures during the week, and closing attorney came to the house 8 days later. Amazingly simple.

We do have simple W2 income and a low LTV ratio. Asked for no escrow on same rate and received it.
Fredz4000
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Fredz4000 »

flyonnylon wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:59 pm Was working with BoA for a 30 yr fixed refi at 2.875 but they were a bit of hassle so checked out Better and today locked in 2.375 30 yr fixed.
Can I ask how much you're paying to get 2.375?
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Raraculus
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Raraculus »

Assuming all things equal aside... How much the interest rate offering is increased for a person in fair credit? i.e., 2.5% interest rate for a cash-out refinancing jumps to 3.5% offer for a person with fair credit. Would it help to tell the potential lender that the cash-out refinancing proceeds would be used to pay off credit cards?

Asking for a friend. :D
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

Raraculus wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 2:00 pm Assuming all things equal aside... How much the interest rate offering is increased for a person in fair credit? i.e., 2.5% interest rate for a cash-out refinancing jumps to 3.5% offer for a person with fair credit. Would it help to tell the potential lender that the cash-out refinancing proceeds would be used to pay off credit cards?

Asking for a friend. :D
This is specifically for originations being sold to Fannie Mae, but page 3 of this Loan Level Price Adjustment Matrix has adjustments for cash-out refinances. Freddie should have similar pricing. Jumbos are lender-specific.
A useful razor: anyone asking about speculative strategies on Bogleheads.org has no business using them.
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Raraculus
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Post by Raraculus »

drk wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 2:28 pmThis is specifically for originations being sold to Fannie Mae, but page 3 of this Loan Level Price Adjustment Matrix has adjustments for cash-out refinances. Freddie should have similar pricing. Jumbos are lender-specific.
Wow, that was a helpful link. Thanks.
umk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by umk »

Hello,
Here is my information.
I had taken voluntary separation from prior employer in May 2020.
Current outstanding mortgage $330k @3.25% 30 years original, monthly $1732
I had tried to refinance with Better in November 2020 for $353k rate was locked @ 2.5% no points/credit (outstanding loan was $350k that time).
but they denied it that time since I was unemployed that time.
I started new job only last month (got just 2 pay-stubs) and planning to refinance.
Will it work this time around?

Now I am in the process to get quotes for $300k loan 30 year so monthly around $1205. (Estimated property value $515k as per Better appraisal they did in Nov 2020, so LTV ~58%, Credit 800+) Will be happy to get 30 year mortgage around @2.625% no points or up-to $200 in points.
I got very bad quote from Better. They quoted 30 year 2.625% with $3222 payable in points
I asked him for appraisal waiver. He pulled some sort of Desktop Underwriter report and said that it will not be possible. (I wonder if recent flooding in Houston made it difficult to get appraisal waiver, don't know.)
My new salary is much less, but with rental income + dividend income (not sure they consider it), it puts Debt to income ratio of 14%, I was told.
I saw on bank-rate quote for 2.625% with 1552 in points. Asked Better to match but the mortgage broker is adamant that they will match bankrate ONLY IF I agree for no-escrow. I reluctantly agreed. (Nothing is locked anywhere yet).

Current mortgage lender quoted 2.75% with $375 in lender credit and 2.625% with $3226 in points. I have applied there as well. But I doubt I will close with them with such poor quote. They and Better have pulled my credit report.

Texas Trust Home loan whom I found on Bankrate.com have good offer @2.625% with $252 in points. I filled application, now he wanted $45 to pull my credit. Also I read online that they will charge 1% breakup fee if I lock rate with them and do not close with them. This is making me nervous and I just wanted them to use for shopping without actually locking the rate.

I am not seeing any juicy offers for me similar to the ones that are being discussed here. What am I missing? Any suggestions?
RJC
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by RJC »

Just locked in a 1.875% (no points) 15-year refi with Better.com this morning.

Anyone else have experience with them? They seem pretty straightforward so far.
adestefan
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by adestefan »

RJC wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 11:41 am Just locked in a 1.875% (no points) 15-year refi with Better.com this morning.

Anyone else have experience with them? They seem pretty straightforward so far.
How did you end up with that? Best I've been seeing lately is 2.25% with 0 points.
RJC
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Post by RJC »

adestefan wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 12:03 pm
RJC wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 11:41 am Just locked in a 1.875% (no points) 15-year refi with Better.com this morning.

Anyone else have experience with them? They seem pretty straightforward so far.
How did you end up with that? Best I've been seeing lately is 2.25% with 0 points.
I started my search on Zillow this morning and it said 1.875% (no points) + $1999 in lender fees. After linking w/ Better they said the rate went up a little but I sent them my screenshot and they accepted the rate on Zillow.
umk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by umk »

There is no much dishonesty going on. I happened to see good rate on Credit Karma and contacted New American Funding. The loan officer quoted 30-year rate @2.625% with no points. I had to make the application, submit tons of documentation before he would give loan estimate. LE showed higher loan amount than what I requested, quoted @2.625% with Section A fees of $3602. When I called him, he insisted that those are not points. So I said that I would not have applying has he disclosed it upfront and he just said, cancel the application. I said in the affirmative and he just hung up. It is so frustrating. :annoyed
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

RJC wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 12:13 pm
adestefan wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 12:03 pm
RJC wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 11:41 am Just locked in a 1.875% (no points) 15-year refi with Better.com this morning.

Anyone else have experience with them? They seem pretty straightforward so far.
How did you end up with that? Best I've been seeing lately is 2.25% with 0 points.
I started my search on Zillow this morning and it said 1.875% (no points) + $1999 in lender fees. After linking w/ Better they said the rate went up a little but I sent them my screenshot and they accepted the rate on Zillow.
Did the same thing with Better, but with a Bankrate.com screenshot. Got 2.0% 15 yr with 4k in lender credits. The best anyone else could do for similiar credits was 2.375%. Better is killing other lenders if you do it correctly.
cangrande
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by cangrande »

just refinanced with better.com:

2.75%, 30 year fixed
245,000 loan
$1480 "negative points" (lender discount)

house is worth ~500K so no mortgage insurance and they waived the appraisal.

it was shockingly easy, (I have excellent credit and a stable W2 income and no other debt, which made all the paperwork straightforward) -- from first inquiries to signing papers was maybe 10 days.

The previous loan was 3.75 and was a 5/1 variable rate that would reset next year, so this was a no brainer.

Been a reader for awhile, but I just registered to the forum to say: thanks all, this is the thread that got me off my butt and into doing the refinance, and it's saving me over $200/month.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

What can I say, Better # 5 is in progress. :beer
masterzero
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by masterzero »

What is the best 30 Year refi rate for a jumbo loan 57% LTV in MA?
I am currently getting a 3% quote from my current lender.
dandinsac
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dandinsac »

ZinCO wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:51 pm
dandinsac wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 3:39 pm
presto987 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:01 am
dandinsac wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 9:03 pm I have a 3% mortgage with Chase Bank of ~$711,000 in California on a house that we closed in January 2021. I will be closing on my former house soon and will have enough cash to lower the mortgage below $548,250, which is the limit for qualifying mortgages in my county. I plan to refinance, most likely to a 20-year or 15-year mortgage. (I did no-cost refinances on my former house two times last year, so I know the drill.)

1. Once I get the settlement funds, is there any advantage to pay down my existing mortgage right away to lower the principal below the qualifying limit? Or, should I hold on to the cash and just include it in the refi?

2. Chase will recast my mortgage at a minimal cost, but their 3% rate isn’t competitive now, where 2.625-2.75% is available for 30-year refi’s with no costs. Does anyone have experience with Chase matching the rates on LenderFi, Better, etc. without going through a new refinance/appraisal?

Thanks!
On #1, I don't think it matters much, but personally I would pay down the existing mortgage right away. This way you get a guaranteed 3% (pre tax deduction) return on that money, which you are not going to get by having the cash sitting in a savings account while you do your refi. You should come out a couple hundred dollars ahead this way.
presto,

Thanks. That makes sense to me. It may also help the Chase folks see that I am serious about shopping for a better rate.
It was previously reported many many pages ago that requesting a payoff number from Chase might trigger an offer to "adjust" your rate to be more competitive. It didn't work for me and I left, but others reported receiving such an offer so it might be worth trying.
Closing the loop here in case anyone was interested. Even after paying down the balance to ~$549K, there was no movement by Chase other than a few automated emails.

We just signed the closing papers with LenderFi. It was an 11-day process to get 15 years @2.125% Yeah!
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 3:55 pm What can I say, Better # 5 is in progress. :beer
Huzzah. Can you remind us where you're at now? What got you to dive in again?
A useful razor: anyone asking about speculative strategies on Bogleheads.org has no business using them.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

drk wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 12:40 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 3:55 pm What can I say, Better # 5 is in progress. :beer
Huzzah. Can you remind us where you're at now? What got you to dive in again?
I’m at 2.625% for 15 year on $140k. The new refi offers 2.375% at 0 points for 15 years with $75k cash-out.

When we looked, I actually get cheaper pricing with cash-out pushing me over $200k vs. just doing a straight refi.

The extra benefit here is that the next refi would be over $200k traditional, so the rate could go down more. Punching in those numbers, that would be 2.25% at 0 points right now.

Please note that the 2.625% was with me profiting vs. no-cost. Looking at my rate table from January’s refi, I could have gotten 2.25% at no cost (enough credits to pay my closing costs), but opted to get an extra few thousand up front because I’ve become a serial refi-er. I’m likely to choose 2.625% again vs. 2.375% on this refi. Overall, this refi has worse pricing than the last one, but I can still profit and take out cash, so why not.
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:39 pm
drk wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 12:40 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 3:55 pm What can I say, Better # 5 is in progress. :beer
Huzzah. Can you remind us where you're at now? What got you to dive in again?
I’m at 2.625% for 15 year on $140k. The new refi offers 2.375% at 0 points for 15 years with $75k cash-out.

When we looked, I actually get cheaper pricing with cash-out pushing me over $200k vs. just doing a straight refi.

The extra benefit here is that the next refi would be over $200k traditional, so the rate could go down more. Punching in those numbers, that would be 2.25% at 0 points right now.

Please note that the 2.625% was with me profiting vs. no-cost. Looking at my rate table from January’s refi, I could have gotten 2.25% at no cost (enough credits to pay my closing costs), but opted to get an extra few thousand up front because I’ve become a serial refi-er. I’m likely to choose 2.625% again vs. 2.375% on this refi. Overall, this refi has worse pricing than the last one, but I can still profit and take out cash, so why not.
Wow. You are a true refi legend. :beer
drk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by drk »

BrandonBogle wrote: Sun May 23, 2021 1:39 pm I’m at 2.625% for 15 year on $140k. [...]
Awesome, congrats!

Based on recent comps, my house is worth >10% more than my last appraisal, so I've been thinking about a cash-out if I can keep my rate under 2.5%.
A useful razor: anyone asking about speculative strategies on Bogleheads.org has no business using them.
BamBamBam
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BamBamBam »

I’ve got 10 years left on a 15 year 2.625 with chase

Owe 230 on appraised 405

Had a bad experience with loan depot, now trying better.com

Would like to get under 2 on a 10 or 15 yr term or cash out equity and lock in under 2.625.. any recommendations ?
Liquidus
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Liquidus »

Looking for advice on a $548,250 cash-out refinance on 30 year term, below 50% LTV and 760+ credit.

Better.com is offering 2.75% with $2,467 credit or 2.875% with $3,728 credit.

A search on Zillow.com has First State Mortgage offering 2.875% with a $5,931 credit. There are at least four others lenders offering more credit than Better.com on a 2.875% rate.

Better.com can't match without a loan estimate but may be able to improve their credit by $400.

I'm debating whether to spend time to potentially match or take the Better.com offer now. Are advertised rates and credits on Zillow generally reliable?

Thank you.
gpburdell
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gpburdell »

gpburdell wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:13 pm Just locked a 30 year at 2.25% with Better (0.827 points, no escrow, rolling closing costs). I've been reading on here that most people go with the no cost route. I have no idea if rates are going up or down, but I feel pretty good with 2.25% and saving $570/month plus a ton of interest. I wasn't able to refinance last year and happy I'm able to now at a good rate.

Current Mortgage
393k @ 4.5% (P&I $2108)
26 years left

New Mortgage
401k @ 2.25% (P&I $1535)
A=3322 (0.827 points)
B=614
C=1804
D=5740
An update on my refinance with Better. My closing is set for tomorrow which is exactly 2 weeks from when I locked in my rate. I'm amazed at how quick and easy this process has been. Also, I was surprised at how little documentation I had to send. Just a copy of last year's tax return. I know I consented to let them get data from the IRS etc. Just surprised that they didn't ask for paystubs, W2s, bank statements etc.

The only negative thing is with them coming to your house; you have to provide your own witness to sign stuff.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Liquidus wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:00 pm Looking for advice on a $548,250 cash-out refinance on 30 year term, below 50% LTV and 760+ credit.

Better.com is offering 2.75% with $2,467 credit or 2.875% with $3,728 credit.

A search on Zillow.com has First State Mortgage offering 2.875% with a $5,931 credit. There are at least four others lenders offering more credit than Better.com on a 2.875% rate.

Better.com can't match without a loan estimate but may be able to improve their credit by $400.

I'm debating whether to spend time to potentially match or take the Better.com offer now. Are advertised rates and credits on Zillow generally reliable?

Thank you.
Don’t focus on just the lender credits vs. the A + B + C + E costs. For instance, if I punch in my loan details at Provident right now, they will give me $1k more in lender credits than Better. So what does that mean, Provident is more expensive since they charge $1,350 in lender fees while Better charges $0.
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

dks05c wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 6:35 pm I had little to no interest in refinancing yesterday but now I'm locked into a third refi in 15 months with Better. I refinanced to a 15 yr 2.25% no cost 346k loan (which means 4k in credits due to the high refi costs in FL) back in November 2020. Ive been very happy with that rate and figured I was done refinancing.

Fast forward to yesterday. I was casually browsing Bankrate and a 15 yr 1.75% with around $700 in points at Better popped up. I checked the Better.com website and the rate/points werent as good, so I emailed Better to see if they would match Bankrate. They did, which also updated the other rates/points. Long story short, I locked in a 15 yr 2.0% 334k loan with $3900 in credits, so I'll reduce my rate a quarter point and profit around $500 at closing.
Just wanted to follow up to give credit where credit is due. I locked in on 5/11 and just signed my closing docs last night (5/24), with funding scheduled for 5/28. The process was much better this time around compared to my prior refinance with Better last year. Last time, I had three different contacts throughout the process, and this time around I only had one "Home Advisor" who was my main contact the entire way. She was much more responsive and knowledgeable compared to the prior contacts. I'm not sure if Better has changed their policy across the board, but it was definitely a much smoother process with the one contact.

I ended up profiting around $800 at close while reducing my rate a quarter point, saving 5k in interest across the loan. A no brainer to me but my friends and family think I'm crazy!
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mmmodem
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mmmodem »

gpburdell wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:14 pm
gpburdell wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:13 pm Just locked a 30 year at 2.25% with Better (0.827 points, no escrow, rolling closing costs). I've been reading on here that most people go with the no cost route. I have no idea if rates are going up or down, but I feel pretty good with 2.25% and saving $570/month plus a ton of interest. I wasn't able to refinance last year and happy I'm able to now at a good rate.

Current Mortgage
393k @ 4.5% (P&I $2108)
26 years left

New Mortgage
401k @ 2.25% (P&I $1535)
A=3322 (0.827 points)
B=614
C=1804
D=5740
An update on my refinance with Better. My closing is set for tomorrow which is exactly 2 weeks from when I locked in my rate. I'm amazed at how quick and easy this process has been. Also, I was surprised at how little documentation I had to send. Just a copy of last year's tax return. I know I consented to let them get data from the IRS etc. Just surprised that they didn't ask for paystubs, W2s, bank statements etc.

The only negative thing is with them coming to your house; you have to provide your own witness to sign stuff.
Thanks for the update. I also just locked with Better.com on 5/24/21

Current mortgage
$232k @ 3.5% (P&I $1282)
21 years left

New secondary mortgage rolling in the closing costs and points
$239k @ 2.875% (P&I $995)
30 years

Due to the extension of the loan even with a lower rate will cost me more in interest to refinance. The point of the refinance is decrease P&I and increase my monthly cash flow. I'm hoping for a speedy close, the person I talked to said 30 to 45 days. I'm hoping I get the two weeks like you. Thanks for the tip off for a witness. I was also amazed how easy it was to just input everything online. They did ask for paystubs and W2's like all other refinance I have done. They are waiving the appraisal which is a deal breaker for me if they didn't.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

mmmodem wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 11:09 am
gpburdell wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:14 pm The only negative thing is with them coming to your house; you have to provide your own witness to sign stuff.
Thanks for the tip off for a witness.
Note that this is state-specific. For instance, here in NC, no witnesses are needed.
gpburdell
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gpburdell »

mmmodem wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 11:09 am They did ask for paystubs and W2's like all other refinance I have done.
Having worked for Equifax, I know they have a system called TALX which stores employment/payroll info that lenders use and assume they got my info from there or something similar.
umk
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by umk »

Locked with Better.com yesterday.
New loan 300k (no escrow), 30 year @2.75% with $1821 lender credit
LTV 57%, credit score 800+

A=0, B=764, C=2471, E=128
Slama40
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Slama40 »

For anyone looking at refinancing or purchasing investment properties I used First Centenial Bank. My latest LE from them is 3.625%, 30 fixed, loan amount 220k. A=$1795, B= $725, C= $2121. I couldn't find anyone that could beat those rates on a rental property.

If you find any better rates, let me know.
Liquidus
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Liquidus »

Liquidus wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:00 pm Looking for advice on a $548,250 cash-out refinance on 30 year term, below 50% LTV and 760+ credit.

Better.com is offering 2.75% with $2,467 credit or 2.875% with $3,728 credit.

A search on Zillow.com has First State Mortgage offering 2.875% with a $5,931 credit. There are at least four others lenders offering more credit than Better.com on a 2.875% rate.

Better.com can't match without a loan estimate but may be able to improve their credit by $400.

I'm debating whether to spend time to potentially match or take the Better.com offer now. Are advertised rates and credits on Zillow generally reliable?

Thank you.
After following rates a bit, I locked today with Better.com
30-year cash-out refinance
2.75% with $3,920 in credit
55% LTV and 760+ credit score
flyonnylon
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by flyonnylon »

jason1122 wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 9:16 am
flyonnylon wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 9:59 pm Was working with BoA for a 30 yr fixed refi at 2.875 but they were a bit of hassle so checked out Better and today locked in 2.375 30 yr fixed.
Can I ask how much you're paying to get 2.375?
Hey, I paid $6k in points. Little bummed about the upfront costs but am not moving for at least 6 years and should save $450/mo with the better interest rate. Mortgage is about 7% of gross monthly income so could have done 15-year however the whole point of my refi is being able to invest the monthly savings, since I'm optimistic about the market and would like to FIRE in about 6 years. Would rather invest the savings than pay extra towards principal plus historically 2.375 is a pretty good rate for even a 15 yr..

Talking to my parents who have rental properties; my mortgage on a 4k sq/ft house on 1 acre, walking distance to the lake, 20min from downtown in a nice school district is the same price they rent a 1300 sq/ft rental on 1/8 acre in a less desirable area.. it's a nice time to be a homeowner.
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