Refinance Mega Thread

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Alto Astral
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Alto Astral »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:52 pm
gac1979 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:47 pm Yes, this section is applicable when the borrower fails to pay for property tax or homeowners insurance or provide a receipt to the lender showing such payment. I haven’t failed to pay anything yet.
I don’t know what else to say. There are provisions if you don’t pay. Fannie/Freddie know that things slip through during servicing transfers and the servicer may easily miss checking on whether you paid it or not (b/c the insurer sends a notice to the loss payee and there are subscription services to tax pmt data), so they require a lender to force this if it is within 60 days of closing and they want to sell the loan to Fannie/Freddie.

Don’t think of it so personally vs. what Fannie/Freddie have felt is safest for the loans they are buying.
Is it recommended to roll the 6 months property tax into the loan to keep the zero closing? Or is it better to pay it separately since you would've paid it separately anyway?
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chasingbutterflies
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chasingbutterflies »

I’ve just got quotes from both Better and Loanmonkey for 1.75 15 year fixed refi. No credits and I don’t have an Amex card. Closing costs are about the same 6200. Any thoughts on who might be best? Loan amount about 200k and property value estimated 290k. Originally purchased Dec 2019 for 235k and rate 3.6 with low money down and no Pmi.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

chasingbutterflies wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:51 am I’ve just got quotes from both Better and Loanmonkey for 1.75 15 year fixed refi. No credits and I don’t have an Amex card. Closing costs are about the same 6200. Any thoughts on who might be best? Loan amount about 200k and property value estimated 290k. Originally purchased Dec 2019 for 235k and rate 3.6 with low money down and no Pmi.

it's not worth your time to open a free Amex card to get $2000 ? I wouldn't spend $6k to refi a loan. You should be abel to take a higher rate. Have you not had Better match Bankrate yet?
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chasingbutterflies
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chasingbutterflies »

Do I screenshot bankrate or something? That’s how I started this process. Truthfully I’m not keen on opening a card I probably won’t use. I’m trying not to complicate my life anymore than it already is!
bws
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

chasingbutterflies wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:17 pm Do I screenshot bankrate or something? That’s how I started this process. Truthfully I’m not keen on opening a card I probably won’t use. I’m trying not to complicate my life anymore than it already is!
Yes. Screenshot Bankrate. Get all the info on the page.

Just open a free AMEX such as Hilton Honors and throw in in your sock drawer or cut it up. Its worth it for 2k unless your Bezos.
Last edited by bws on Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mirror
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mirror »

bws wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:19 pm
chasingbutterflies wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:17 pm Do I screenshot bankrate or something? That’s how I started this process. Truthfully I’m not keen on opening a card I probably won’t use. I’m trying not to complicate my life anymore than it already is!
Yes. Screenshot Bankrate. Get all the info on the page.

Just open an a free AMEX such as Hilton Honors and throw in in your sock drawer or cut it up. Its worth it for 2k unless your Bezos.
I've been wondering this myself recently, wouldn't opening a cc right before refinancing hit your credit score? Albeit, probably a few points, but could that potentially impact the refi rate?
mceagle555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

mirror wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:24 pm
bws wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:19 pm
chasingbutterflies wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:17 pm Do I screenshot bankrate or something? That’s how I started this process. Truthfully I’m not keen on opening a card I probably won’t use. I’m trying not to complicate my life anymore than it already is!
Yes. Screenshot Bankrate. Get all the info on the page.

Just open an a free AMEX such as Hilton Honors and throw in in your sock drawer or cut it up. Its worth it for 2k unless your Bezos.
I've been wondering this myself recently, wouldn't opening a cc right before refinancing hit your credit score? Albeit, probably a few points, but could that potentially impact the refi rate?
As long as your score remains above 740+, it won't affect your rate.
MrJedi
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

bws wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:19 pm
chasingbutterflies wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:17 pm Do I screenshot bankrate or something? That’s how I started this process. Truthfully I’m not keen on opening a card I probably won’t use. I’m trying not to complicate my life anymore than it already is!
Yes. Screenshot Bankrate. Get all the info on the page.

Just open a free AMEX such as Hilton Honors and throw in in your sock drawer or cut it up. Its worth it for 2k unless your Bezos.
Do you just screenshot the page where you type in generic numbers into the filter and it shows you other potential lenders? Or do you actually continue through to Better.com to fill out the info there?

When I fill out the info at better.com and do the soft credit pull, they end up offering some garbage rates (I assume this is their general strategy to hope you just accept something without shopping or negotiating).
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:11 pm
bws wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:19 pm
chasingbutterflies wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:17 pm Do I screenshot bankrate or something? That’s how I started this process. Truthfully I’m not keen on opening a card I probably won’t use. I’m trying not to complicate my life anymore than it already is!
Yes. Screenshot Bankrate. Get all the info on the page.

Just open a free AMEX such as Hilton Honors and throw in in your sock drawer or cut it up. Its worth it for 2k unless your Bezos.
Do you just screenshot the page where you type in generic numbers into the filter and it shows you other potential lenders? Or do you actually continue through to Better.com to fill out the info there?

When I fill out the info at better.com and do the soft credit pull, they end up offering some garbage rates (I assume this is their general strategy to hope you just accept something without shopping or negotiating).
Get preapproved from Better and you'll get an email from your contact there. Then yes take a screenshot of the the bankrate quote from the bankrate website, and email it to the Better.com contact.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

Alto Astral wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:39 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:52 pm
gac1979 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:47 pm Yes, this section is applicable when the borrower fails to pay for property tax or homeowners insurance or provide a receipt to the lender showing such payment. I haven’t failed to pay anything yet.
I don’t know what else to say. There are provisions if you don’t pay. Fannie/Freddie know that things slip through during servicing transfers and the servicer may easily miss checking on whether you paid it or not (b/c the insurer sends a notice to the loss payee and there are subscription services to tax pmt data), so they require a lender to force this if it is within 60 days of closing and they want to sell the loan to Fannie/Freddie.

Don’t think of it so personally vs. what Fannie/Freddie have felt is safest for the loans they are buying.
Is it recommended to roll the 6 months property tax into the loan to keep the zero closing? Or is it better to pay it separately since you would've paid it separately anyway?
Depends on your circumstances. Rolling taxes into the loan is like a mini cash out, because then you don’t have to come up with the cash for the taxes. But then your monthly payment will be a little higher.

It is possible that your pricing might change depending on whether you roll the taxes in or not, so that is another thing to keep your eye on.
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

Better just added one year of prepaid for Home Insurance because my policy renews on October 5th, and they currently expect me to close within 2 months of that (August 5th of later). Anyone have any luck getting something like this removed?

Either that or I hope we can close by August 4th.
toblerone
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by toblerone »

2Scoops wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:31 am
bws wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:28 am
2Scoops wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:10 am
toblerone wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:27 pm Locked today @ 1.75% on a 15-year fixed at Better. Loan cost $2k (if I'm reading the LE correctly, part D.), Amex credit $2k, so a free loan but it sounds like I could do better than Better :wink: $250k loan, 25% LTV. I paid for the appraisal already but I'm hoping/assuming it will be waived.
Updating my info as well from a few days ago where a few people in this thread pointed me to Better for my refinance. My numbers are extremely similar to yours. I also locked in a 15 year at 1.75%, similar loan cost and also getting 2K AMEX credit. Loan is 251K and home value is around 500K.

Really appreciate everyone on the forum!
Where do you think you could have done better than Better? 1.75 is the lowest I've seen at close to no cost.
I assume you were responding to Toblerone and not me. I am extremely happy with the 1.75% and it was the best offer I found after looking at several options. :sharebeer
I was extremely happy until someone posted before me that they got 1.875% at Better with a $4k credit, plus the $2k Amex bonus. That's about a $6k difference for only .125% higher rate. Oh well, I suppose I'm still pretty happy :sharebeer 1.75% is insanely low.
I did have to get Better to match Bankrate rates. The day before they quoted me 2.25% and a fraction of a point. I sent a quote screenshot but the LO said that wasn't enough, he needed a full estimate from a competitor. While I was getting the estimate they relented and offered 1.75%.

Now they are saying the appraisal cannot be waived because it's a Fannie Mae requirement. It looks like maybe I should have chosen $990k instead of $1m for home value, but maybe Better does the appraisal every time regardless. Would have been nice to save $550.
mceagle555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

Data point:

- Locked 15yr @ 1.875% w/ $3,500 lender credit today (7/21)
- $440k loan amount
- Amex task was already loaded in Better portal

For those wanting to jump through a few hoops, QuickenLoans/RocketMortgage was willing to match, but their process is nowhere near as refined as Better.
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

toblerone wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:41 pm
2Scoops wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:31 am
bws wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:28 am
2Scoops wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:10 am
toblerone wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:27 pm Locked today @ 1.75% on a 15-year fixed at Better. Loan cost $2k (if I'm reading the LE correctly, part D.), Amex credit $2k, so a free loan but it sounds like I could do better than Better :wink: $250k loan, 25% LTV. I paid for the appraisal already but I'm hoping/assuming it will be waived.
Updating my info as well from a few days ago where a few people in this thread pointed me to Better for my refinance. My numbers are extremely similar to yours. I also locked in a 15 year at 1.75%, similar loan cost and also getting 2K AMEX credit. Loan is 251K and home value is around 500K.

Really appreciate everyone on the forum!
Where do you think you could have done better than Better? 1.75 is the lowest I've seen at close to no cost.
I assume you were responding to Toblerone and not me. I am extremely happy with the 1.75% and it was the best offer I found after looking at several options. :sharebeer
I was extremely happy until someone posted before me that they got 1.875% at Better with a $4k credit, plus the $2k Amex bonus. That's about a $6k difference for only .125% higher rate. Oh well, I suppose I'm still pretty happy :sharebeer 1.75% is insanely low.
I did have to get Better to match Bankrate rates. The day before they quoted me 2.25% and a fraction of a point. I sent a quote screenshot but the LO said that wasn't enough, he needed a full estimate from a competitor. While I was getting the estimate they relented and offered 1.75%.

Now they are saying the appraisal cannot be waived because it's a Fannie Mae requirement. It looks like maybe I should have chosen $990k instead of $1m for home value, but maybe Better does the appraisal every time regardless. Would have been nice to save $550.
Sorry that was me. The trick is to get the best overall deal on bankrate, not just the specific rate/term you are looking for. Once better updates that rate on their site, ALL of the terms change across the board. For example, if a 30 year cash out refi has the best actual DEAL (not rate but deal) on Bankrate, have Better match that rate, which will then reduce the 15 year fixed non cash out on Better. By doing that 15 year fixed for me showed either 1.75 with 2200 in credits or 1.875 with 4400 in credits. I went with the 1.875.
Last edited by dks05c on Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:08 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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seeingeyestrike
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by seeingeyestrike »

Figured I'd share my process and loan details in case it helps others out. I've been following this thread on and off since last June and this will be my 3rd refinance since then.

1. I've been tracking Better's rate on bankrate over the past few weeks with my specific details. (https://www.bankrate.com/mortgages/refinance-rates/)
2. Yesterday (7/20) I noticed rates had dipped quite a bit (~.3 points for the 1.75% 15 year rate). I took a screenshot of this rate/points combo.
3. I started a refinance application on Better's website. (https://better.com/)
4. Once my loan processor emailed me the automated "You're pre-approved" email, I replied with my bankrate screenshot and (politely) asked if I they were able to match their advertised rate.
5. After about 2 hours, they had (effectively) matched the rate and updated my rate tables.
6. I went into their website and locked the 2.25% 15 year with ~4,900 in lender credits.
7. This morning, I got a quote from radian for the title service; it's about $500 dollars lower than my loan estimate. (emailed clientrelations@radian.com: included my address, my refinance amount, and my most recent mortgage statement)
8. I've emailed the quote to both my loan processer and the underwriting team (who had emailed me today) requesting to use radian. I'm still waiting on a response. (I also did this in my last refinance and there were no issues.)
9. I also emailed about adding the AMEX credit task to my portal since I forgot to originally apply through that link.

My details:
NJ, Loan amount $256,000, house value ~$430,000
15 year refinance, 2.25%, no escrow
Lender Credits + Amex credit - (ABCE)= 4916+2000-0-64-1318-330 = $5204 net back

My first refinance was in July 2020 with LenderFi- 15 year, 2.5%, credits only covered closing costs, maintained escrow
My second refinance with in April 2021 with Better, 15 year, 2.375%, ~$500 in credits, removed escrow

One interesting thing I wasn't expecting is that they extended my rate lock to 75 days (no extra fees to me). It seems that since my last refinance (also with Better) closed on 4/1/21, they want to wait the 6 months before we close on this one. In the email, they seemed open to continuing to match rates if they drop even though I already locked.
frugalNY
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:11 pm
bws wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:19 pm
chasingbutterflies wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:17 pm Do I screenshot bankrate or something? That’s how I started this process. Truthfully I’m not keen on opening a card I probably won’t use. I’m trying not to complicate my life anymore than it already is!
Yes. Screenshot Bankrate. Get all the info on the page.

Just open a free AMEX such as Hilton Honors and throw in in your sock drawer or cut it up. Its worth it for 2k unless your Bezos.
Do you just screenshot the page where you type in generic numbers into the filter and it shows you other potential lenders? Or do you actually continue through to Better.com to fill out the info there?

When I fill out the info at better.com and do the soft credit pull, they end up offering some garbage rates (I assume this is their general strategy to hope you just accept something without shopping or negotiating).
Based on my phone conversation, you must email them an LE (not screenshot) to even have them consider to match. I already applied to Better yesterday on their portal and their rates are ridiculous at this point! I sent the screenshot anyway to the email address of the LO I spoke to over the phone. Will see what they say.

In the meantime, what other lenders can I reach out to? I'm in Nassau County, NY.

Thanks,
frugalNY
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chasingbutterflies
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chasingbutterflies »

I’m planning to talk with the loan officers for both Better and LoanMonkey tomorrow. I’ll screenshot the bankrate quotes tonight after work. How does the Amex thing work? I can apply tonight for that as well. Do I mention that to the loan officer tomorrow? Is that only for Better?
kd2008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kd2008 »

dks05c wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:51 pm [Sorry that was me. The trick is to get the best overall deal on bankrate, not just the specific rate/term you are looking for. Once better updates that rate on their site, ALL of the terms change across the board. For example, if a 30 year cash out refi has the best actual DEAL (not rate but deal) on Bankrate, have Better match that rate, which will then reduce the 15 year fixed non cash out on Better. By doing that 15 year fixed for me showed either 1.75 with 2200 in credits or 1.875 with 4400 in credits. I went with the 1.875.
How do you determine best overall deal? $0 in points is one obvious one. Bankrate asked for email when getting cash out options.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:52 pm
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:11 pm
bws wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:19 pm
chasingbutterflies wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:17 pm Do I screenshot bankrate or something? That’s how I started this process. Truthfully I’m not keen on opening a card I probably won’t use. I’m trying not to complicate my life anymore than it already is!
Yes. Screenshot Bankrate. Get all the info on the page.

Just open a free AMEX such as Hilton Honors and throw in in your sock drawer or cut it up. Its worth it for 2k unless your Bezos.
Do you just screenshot the page where you type in generic numbers into the filter and it shows you other potential lenders? Or do you actually continue through to Better.com to fill out the info there?

When I fill out the info at better.com and do the soft credit pull, they end up offering some garbage rates (I assume this is their general strategy to hope you just accept something without shopping or negotiating).
Based on my phone conversation, you must email them an LE (not screenshot) to even have them consider to match. I already applied to Better yesterday on their portal and their rates are ridiculous at this point! I sent the screenshot anyway to the email address of the LO I spoke to over the phone. Will see what they say.

In the meantime, what other lenders can I reach out to? I'm in Nassau County, NY.

Thanks,
frugalNY
I'd just delete your application and play LO roulette to get a new one, because that's ridiculous based on literally everyone else's experiences in this thread.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

tj wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:31 pm
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:52 pm
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:11 pm
bws wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:19 pm
chasingbutterflies wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:17 pm Do I screenshot bankrate or something? That’s how I started this process. Truthfully I’m not keen on opening a card I probably won’t use. I’m trying not to complicate my life anymore than it already is!
Yes. Screenshot Bankrate. Get all the info on the page.

Just open a free AMEX such as Hilton Honors and throw in in your sock drawer or cut it up. Its worth it for 2k unless your Bezos.
Do you just screenshot the page where you type in generic numbers into the filter and it shows you other potential lenders? Or do you actually continue through to Better.com to fill out the info there?

When I fill out the info at better.com and do the soft credit pull, they end up offering some garbage rates (I assume this is their general strategy to hope you just accept something without shopping or negotiating).
Based on my phone conversation, you must email them an LE (not screenshot) to even have them consider to match. I already applied to Better yesterday on their portal and their rates are ridiculous at this point! I sent the screenshot anyway to the email address of the LO I spoke to over the phone. Will see what they say.

In the meantime, what other lenders can I reach out to? I'm in Nassau County, NY.

Thanks,
frugalNY
I'd just delete your application and play LO roulette to get a new one, because that's ridiculous based on literally everyone else's experiences in this thread.
I think they are conflating two different things. The screenshot from Bankrate would be for Better’s own advertised offer, with the shot showing the filtering details and a date/time stamp. The Loan Estimate would be for competing with another lender, even those other lenders on Bankrate.
986racer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 986racer »

If I had a high rate already (let's say 4%), is there a reason I shouldn't take a lot of credits and refinance to 3.875, then take a lot more credits and refinance to 3.75, etc? It seems that I could probably pay off a good portion of my mortgage by continually taking these credits.

For my actual situation, I'm anticipating moving for work reasons in a year. Shouldn't I just refinance into whatever is the least out of pocket costs over the following year (e.g., 12 monthly payments - upfront credit)?
frugalNY
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:37 pm
tj wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:31 pm
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:52 pm
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:11 pm
bws wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:19 pm

Yes. Screenshot Bankrate. Get all the info on the page.

Just open a free AMEX such as Hilton Honors and throw in in your sock drawer or cut it up. Its worth it for 2k unless your Bezos.
Do you just screenshot the page where you type in generic numbers into the filter and it shows you other potential lenders? Or do you actually continue through to Better.com to fill out the info there?

When I fill out the info at better.com and do the soft credit pull, they end up offering some garbage rates (I assume this is their general strategy to hope you just accept something without shopping or negotiating).
Based on my phone conversation, you must email them an LE (not screenshot) to even have them consider to match. I already applied to Better yesterday on their portal and their rates are ridiculous at this point! I sent the screenshot anyway to the email address of the LO I spoke to over the phone. Will see what they say.

In the meantime, what other lenders can I reach out to? I'm in Nassau County, NY.

Thanks,
frugalNY
I'd just delete your application and play LO roulette to get a new one, because that's ridiculous based on literally everyone else's experiences in this thread.

I think they are conflating two different things. The screenshot from Bankrate would be for Better’s own advertised offer, with the shot showing the filtering details and a date/time stamp. The Loan Estimate would be for competing with another lender, even those other lenders on Bankrate.
I took a screenshot of an offer from Bankrate page that was much better and reasonable than Better. In fact, the Better rate/overall offer was the worst of all on Bankrate page.

I'm not sure what to do now :confused. Can anyone advise on the right move?
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:57 pm
I took a screenshot of an offer from Bankrate page that was much better and reasonable than Better. In fact, the Better rate/overall offer was the worst of all on Bankrate page.

I'm not sure what to do now :confused. Can anyone advise on the right move?
Two options:

1) Get an actual Loan Estimate from the "other" bankrate lender, and then ask Better to match.

2) Go with the other lender.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

986racer wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:56 pm If I had a high rate already (let's say 4%), is there a reason I shouldn't take a lot of credits and refinance to 3.875, then take a lot more credits and refinance to 3.75, etc? It seems that I could probably pay off a good portion of my mortgage by continually taking these credits.

For my actual situation, I'm anticipating moving for work reasons in a year. Shouldn't I just refinance into whatever is the least out of pocket costs over the following year (e.g., 12 monthly payments - upfront credit)?
AFTER closing costs, I’m up over $15k from lender credits. So why not? In my case, each 1/8 point difference only changed my total interest a little bit, so even if I miss out on the lowest possible rate (rates go up during this process of walking down the rate with each refi), I won’t miss that much.
lurkman
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lurkman »

Question: When an offer on bankrate.com says (say) the rate is 1.75% at 1.75% APR and zero fees, does it mean third-party closing costs would be covered by lender credits?

Or does it simply mean that the rate is being offered with zero points (and third party costs will depend on which state the property is in)?

Or something else?
kmanjir
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kmanjir »

With the ongoing glut of low rates, thought I'd throw my hat in the ring again. :)

This time I decided to shop around for some competing offers for title services and found one who is providing lower costs than the one the lender is connected with. The lender (Better) has said that I can go ahead with the other company.

My question: As I have not done this before, what are the next steps? Do I now need to manage the connection between the new title company and Better? Or does Better take over working with them, and I just give them the contact information?

Thanks!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

lurkman wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:14 pm Question: When an offer on bankrate.com says (say) the rate is 1.75% at 1.75% APR and zero fees, does it mean third-party closing costs would be covered by lender credits?

Or does it simply mean that the rate is being offered with zero points (and third party costs will depend on which state the property is in)?

Or something else?
It varies by lender. I would work off the assumption it refers to points + lender fees (Section A costs on your loan estimate) and then maybe get pleasantly surprised later.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

kmanjir wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:16 pm With the ongoing glut of low rates, thought I'd throw my hat in the ring again. :)

This time I decided to shop around for some competing offers for title services and found one who is providing lower costs than the one the lender is connected with. The lender (Better) has said that I can go ahead with the other company.

My question: As I have not done this before, what are the next steps? Do I now need to manage the connection between the new title company and Better? Or does Better take over working with them, and I just give them the contact information?

Thanks!
Just get the processor the contact info (they may make it a task on your portal to provide it), and then its business as usual. Note that the new provider may want more interaction with you. When I used Better Settlement Services and Radian, neither really interacted with me unless I saw something specific to reach out to them to fix. When I used a local provider, they included me on basically every email and anytime there was a hiccup, they called me before calling Better. But that is just how that firm works vs. it being something about Better using A vs B company.
lurkman
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lurkman »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:16 pm
lurkman wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:14 pm Question: When an offer on bankrate.com says (say) the rate is 1.75% at 1.75% APR and zero fees, does it mean third-party closing costs would be covered by lender credits?

Or does it simply mean that the rate is being offered with zero points (and third party costs will depend on which state the property is in)?

Or something else?
It varies by lender. I would work off the assumption it refers to points + lender fees (Section A costs on your loan estimate) and then maybe get pleasantly surprised later.
Makes sense. Thanks.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

986racer wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:56 pm If I had a high rate already (let's say 4%), is there a reason I shouldn't take a lot of credits and refinance to 3.875, then take a lot more credits and refinance to 3.75, etc? It seems that I could probably pay off a good portion of my mortgage by continually taking these credits.

For my actual situation, I'm anticipating moving for work reasons in a year. Shouldn't I just refinance into whatever is the least out of pocket costs over the following year (e.g., 12 monthly payments - upfront credit)?
Absolutely. I’ve refi’d 3 times over the last year and made around $29k in profit via lender credits (after all costs in D+E and current lender payoff fees). Once with Better and twice with LoanDepot.

This doesn’t even include any Amex offers, as I missed that whole train last year and just finished another refi before this year’s Amex offers came out.

I started with a 7y ARM at 2.5%, refi’d to a 30-year at 2.625%, then a 25-year at 3.125%, then a 5y ARM at 2.5%. So I’m back paying the same rate that I started with and paid a little extra in the interim, but nowhere near what I gained through lender credit.

The most interesting refi was when I went from 2.625 to 3.125. Lenders don’t normally allow you to do that, but I was able to get around it by changing my term.
dyangu
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dyangu »

What are folks seeing for jumbo refi? Anything like ARM or 15yr fixed that is <2%?
I am seeing 2.125% on 15 yr from PNC https://www.pnc.com/content/pnc-com/en/ ... ncing.html but I don't know about fees.
frugalNY
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

truenyer wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:58 pm
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:57 pm
I took a screenshot of an offer from Bankrate page that was much better and reasonable than Better. In fact, the Better rate/overall offer was the worst of all on Bankrate page.

I'm not sure what to do now :confused. Can anyone advise on the right move?
Two options:

1) Get an actual Loan Estimate from the "other" bankrate lender, and then ask Better to match.

2) Go with the other lender.
Which other lender though? I'm clueless. All the other lenders like lenderfi and loanmonkey do not operate in NY :(
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm Which other lender though? I'm clueless. All the other lenders like lenderfi and loanmonkey do not operate in NY :(
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:57 pm I took a screenshot of an offer from Bankrate page that was much better and reasonable than Better.
THAT one. I'm assuming the "offer from Bankrate" was not at Better? Which lender was it?
kmanjir
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kmanjir »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:19 pm
kmanjir wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:16 pm With the ongoing glut of low rates, thought I'd throw my hat in the ring again. :)

This time I decided to shop around for some competing offers for title services and found one who is providing lower costs than the one the lender is connected with. The lender (Better) has said that I can go ahead with the other company.

My question: As I have not done this before, what are the next steps? Do I now need to manage the connection between the new title company and Better? Or does Better take over working with them, and I just give them the contact information?

Thanks!
Just get the processor the contact info (they may make it a task on your portal to provide it), and then its business as usual. Note that the new provider may want more interaction with you. When I used Better Settlement Services and Radian, neither really interacted with me unless I saw something specific to reach out to them to fix. When I used a local provider, they included me on basically every email and anytime there was a hiccup, they called me before calling Better. But that is just how that firm works vs. it being something about Better using A vs B company.
Thanks a lot, Brandon. I just did that, now am awaiting a new task and an update to the loan estimate.

Thanks for the heads up that the local provider might want to interact with me more, good to know. I am good with that, in fact, I would prefer it so that I can catch errors earlier in the process.
bestisfree
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

Has anyone applied for AmEx to get on the promotion, immediately after loan application at Better?

Do you immediately get the credit card number? Does Better still take it?

Asking because I don't have an AmEx card yet.

TIA.
frugalNY
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

truenyer wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:45 pm
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm Which other lender though? I'm clueless. All the other lenders like lenderfi and loanmonkey do not operate in NY :(
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:57 pm I took a screenshot of an offer from Bankrate page that was much better and reasonable than Better.
THAT one. I'm assuming the "offer from Bankrate" was not at Better? Which lender was it?
First National Bank of Pennsylvania at 2.639 APR. The 2nd best was Teachers Federal Credit Union at 2.762 APR. Do they operate in NY? Never heard of them.
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:35 pm
truenyer wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:45 pm
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm Which other lender though? I'm clueless. All the other lenders like lenderfi and loanmonkey do not operate in NY :(
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:57 pm I took a screenshot of an offer from Bankrate page that was much better and reasonable than Better.
THAT one. I'm assuming the "offer from Bankrate" was not at Better? Which lender was it?
First National Bank of Pennsylvania at 2.639 APR. The 2nd best was Teachers Federal Credit Union at 2.762 APR. Do they operate in NY? Never heard of them.
If you put in your zip code, bankrate should only return licensed lenders. There are a lot of lenders out there. Fundamentally as long as they are licensed you shouldn't have an issue, but read whatever reviews that you can. Also, like I said, just get a LE from them and then send the estimate to Better for them to match.
bws
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

kmanjir wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:16 pm With the ongoing glut of low rates, thought I'd throw my hat in the ring again. :)

This time I decided to shop around for some competing offers for title services and found one who is providing lower costs than the one the lender is connected with. The lender (Better) has said that I can go ahead with the other company.

My question: As I have not done this before, what are the next steps? Do I now need to manage the connection between the new title company and Better? Or does Better take over working with them, and I just give them the contact information?

Thanks!
Who did you get the title services from?
toblerone
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by toblerone »

bestisfree wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:34 pm Has anyone applied for AmEx to get on the promotion, immediately after loan application at Better?

Do you immediately get the credit card number? Does Better still take it?

Asking because I don't have an AmEx card yet.

TIA.
You should have time to get the card and use it for the promotion. My LO told me he doesn't need the credit card # for the Amex deal until right before closing. (I already have a card, but I didn't know about the deal until I had already applied at Better).
kmanjir
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kmanjir »

bws wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:50 pm
kmanjir wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:16 pm With the ongoing glut of low rates, thought I'd throw my hat in the ring again. :)

This time I decided to shop around for some competing offers for title services and found one who is providing lower costs than the one the lender is connected with. The lender (Better) has said that I can go ahead with the other company.

My question: As I have not done this before, what are the next steps? Do I now need to manage the connection between the new title company and Better? Or does Better take over working with them, and I just give them the contact information?

Thanks!
Who did you get the title services from?
It's a company called 'Title Forward'.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:57 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:37 pm
tj wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:31 pm
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:52 pm
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:11 pm

Do you just screenshot the page where you type in generic numbers into the filter and it shows you other potential lenders? Or do you actually continue through to Better.com to fill out the info there?

When I fill out the info at better.com and do the soft credit pull, they end up offering some garbage rates (I assume this is their general strategy to hope you just accept something without shopping or negotiating).
Based on my phone conversation, you must email them an LE (not screenshot) to even have them consider to match. I already applied to Better yesterday on their portal and their rates are ridiculous at this point! I sent the screenshot anyway to the email address of the LO I spoke to over the phone. Will see what they say.

In the meantime, what other lenders can I reach out to? I'm in Nassau County, NY.

Thanks,
frugalNY
I'd just delete your application and play LO roulette to get a new one, because that's ridiculous based on literally everyone else's experiences in this thread.

I think they are conflating two different things. The screenshot from Bankrate would be for Better’s own advertised offer, with the shot showing the filtering details and a date/time stamp. The Loan Estimate would be for competing with another lender, even those other lenders on Bankrate.
I took a screenshot of an offer from Bankrate page that was much better and reasonable than Better. In fact, the Better rate/overall offer was the worst of all on Bankrate page.

I'm not sure what to do now :confused. Can anyone advise on the right move?
How bizarre. Nobody comes close to Better on Bankrate for me.
elle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by elle »

kmanjir wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:16 pm With the ongoing glut of low rates, thought I'd throw my hat in the ring again. :)

This time I decided to shop around for some competing offers for title services and found one who is providing lower costs than the one the lender is connected with. The lender (Better) has said that I can go ahead with the other company.

My question: As I have not done this before, what are the next steps? Do I now need to manage the connection between the new title company and Better? Or does Better take over working with them, and I just give them the contact information?

Thanks!
probably a silly question but how do i even go about finding a company that does title services to get quotes?
elle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by elle »

truenyer wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:37 pm
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:35 pm
truenyer wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:45 pm
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm Which other lender though? I'm clueless. All the other lenders like lenderfi and loanmonkey do not operate in NY :(
frugalNY wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:57 pm I took a screenshot of an offer from Bankrate page that was much better and reasonable than Better.
THAT one. I'm assuming the "offer from Bankrate" was not at Better? Which lender was it?
First National Bank of Pennsylvania at 2.639 APR. The 2nd best was Teachers Federal Credit Union at 2.762 APR. Do they operate in NY? Never heard of them.
If you put in your zip code, bankrate should only return licensed lenders. There are a lot of lenders out there. Fundamentally as long as they are licensed you shouldn't have an issue, but read whatever reviews that you can. Also, like I said, just get a LE from them and then send the estimate to Better for them to match.
This is what I literally just did 5 minutes ago. I got a loan estimate from loan depot and i'm waiting to hear back from better on whether they can match. I spoke with 2 LO and they both said I have to have a LE for them to match. No screenshots.

20yr / 750k @ 2.375 (5K closing costs)
no closing cost option is 2.5%. Depending on what they come back with i may revert to this.
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

elle wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:54 pm
kmanjir wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:16 pm With the ongoing glut of low rates, thought I'd throw my hat in the ring again. :)

This time I decided to shop around for some competing offers for title services and found one who is providing lower costs than the one the lender is connected with. The lender (Better) has said that I can go ahead with the other company.

My question: As I have not done this before, what are the next steps? Do I now need to manage the connection between the new title company and Better? Or does Better take over working with them, and I just give them the contact information?

Thanks!
probably a silly question but how do i even go about finding a company that does title services to get quotes?
Email the LO and escrow officer (EO) at the same time to introduce or connect them together. Email LO a few days later to make sure there is no problem for him/her to connect with the EO.
You can google for title companies in your area. Hopefully, you can get quotes from their websites but best to confirm quote with a real EO by email in writing.
Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

tj wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:18 pm
Average Investor wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:53 pm
tj wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:44 pm
Average Investor wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:37 pm Revisiting my post from a week ago.

I am currently paying 3.375% about halfway through on a 30 year fixed.

I cannot qualify for a standard refi due to semi-retirement. Chase has offered the following based on assets only:

15 year fixed 2.0%, or
30 year fixed 2.375%

Closing costs $3100.

These rates require moving over $1M is assets before close (can move out after), and $50K to checking/savings account before close (can move out after). I will need to sell about $15K-$20K of investments to meet the $50k requirement (either stocks with LTCG, Roth distributions or iBonds).

Rates/costs are not as compelling as some of the other rates I've been seeing here but given the circumstances they seem decent to me.

Thoughts?

Thank you.
When you Increase the rate by taking lender credit so that it's a no cost loan, what do the rates look like?
Thanks. No cost:

15 year fixed 2.375%
30 year fixed 2.625 or 2.75% (would need to confirm).

Thank you.
I'd take the no-cost 15 year 2.375 unless you want to extend your term to 30 years.
Thanks a lot.

Got the requote from Chase today. A zero cost asset-based loan 15 year is 2.25%, 30 year is 2.75%.

I'm inclined to take the 15 year no cost although having less cashflow needs monthly would be liberating.

Thank you.
Tomorrow never knows.
2Scoops
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 2Scoops »

bestisfree wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:34 pm Has anyone applied for AmEx to get on the promotion, immediately after loan application at Better?

Do you immediately get the credit card number? Does Better still take it?

Asking because I don't have an AmEx card yet.

TIA.
Yes, I did this. The card number is given to you as soon as you are approved online. I don’t anticipate any issues.
dks05c
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dks05c »

I got a title quote from Radian today and the settlement fee is $525 compared to $450 just two months. Has anyone else noticed the jump in cost?
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

elle wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:58 pm I spoke with 2 LO and they both said I have to have a LE for them to match. No screenshots.
Yes this what people seem to be confusing. Bankrate is an aggregator, not a lender.

Better will match THEIR OWN advertised rate on bankrate with a screenshot.

Any lender will require an actual Loan Estimate to even consider matching another lender’s offer.
ChicagoWolverine
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ChicagoWolverine »

1.99% 15 year fixed today through Costco.
MichaelAZ
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MichaelAZ »

presto987 wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:28 pm
986racer wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:56 pm If I had a high rate already (let's say 4%), is there a reason I shouldn't take a lot of credits and refinance to 3.875, then take a lot more credits and refinance to 3.75, etc? It seems that I could probably pay off a good portion of my mortgage by continually taking these credits.

For my actual situation, I'm anticipating moving for work reasons in a year. Shouldn't I just refinance into whatever is the least out of pocket costs over the following year (e.g., 12 monthly payments - upfront credit)?
Absolutely. I’ve refi’d 3 times over the last year and made around $29k in profit via lender credits (after all costs in D+E and current lender payoff fees). Once with Better and twice with LoanDepot.

This doesn’t even include any Amex offers, as I missed that whole train last year and just finished another refi before this year’s Amex offers came out.

I started with a 7y ARM at 2.5%, refi’d to a 30-year at 2.625%, then a 25-year at 3.125%, then a 5y ARM at 2.5%. So I’m back paying the same rate that I started with and paid a little extra in the interim, but nowhere near what I gained through lender credit.

The most interesting refi was when I went from 2.625 to 3.125. Lenders don’t normally allow you to do that, but I was able to get around it by changing my term.
Very impressive! How did you receive the lender credits --- as cash-out or as paydown of existing principle? The $2K limit on payment to borrower in non-cash-out is a hurdle I know we need to strategize around.
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