Refinance Mega Thread

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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

wxturtle wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:35 pm 1.) I saw somewhere that you can change a rate along the locked rate table before closing. Ex: if we wanted to go from 2.5 to 2.625 (would come out ahead with credits) we could do that with no penalty. Is this true?
This is 100% true. I did it this week. My LO said you can do this until about a week before closing.
Jags4186
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Jags4186 »

wxturtle wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:35 pm Locked (for 30 days) with Better last night after getting them to match Bankrate. Nothing else on Bankrate or Lenderfi could match.

$308,000 remaining on a $450,000 home, went with 30 yr/2.5/0 points + no escrow. $3300 closing costs - $2000 AMEX = -$1300 end of day to go from existing 3.625 to 2.5.

Question -- of course ( :oops: ), rates went down today, currently about $400 better in credits. I'm inclined to let sleeping dogs lie but...

1.) I saw somewhere that you can change a rate along the locked rate table before closing. Ex: if we wanted to go from 2.5 to 2.625 (would come out ahead with credits) we could do that with no penalty. Is this true?

2.) Since we had an appraisal waived, could we just cancel the refi app + submit a new one if rates continue to go down in the next week to get better numbers? Or is there a cool down period after applying, even if the app is withdrawn/cancelled?

3.) Anyone gotten a float down or other adjustment after lock?


Have an e-mail in to my LO, but figured I'd get opinions here, too :)
Change to about 3% and $6k in credits + $2k AMEX. Then once you close and receive your 2k look to refinance again down at no cost. I closed with Better in 11 days and others report getting their AMEX credit within a week.
eltron
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by eltron »

I initially refi'd with LenderFi back in February for 2.125% on a 10 year. I'm checking Better out to see if I can get to 1.75% and utilize this $2k AMEX credit.

My only issue with Better so far is they do not offer a 10 year, only 15 year. Not a major issue though as they don't have prepayment penalties so I can just continue overpaying to stay on track with 10 year and have a little flexibility if we ever have a down month. But it seems they may be able to get me to 15 year @ 1.75% at hopefully no close - she sent to pricing tonight to confirm.

The other issue is they are forcing me to escrow my mortgage interest and taxes. I've never done this and always thought it a benefit because it allowed me to use my funds on other things. However, is it that much of a big deal to being forced to escrow? Sure I can't put that extra money in the market in the meantime, but I also don't have a massive bill waiting for me at the end of the year. The reduced stress on that might be worth the difference. Any opinion either way on having an escrow vs not having an escrow?

I don't think that should be a deal breaker. Especially if they can get me to no closing cost at 1.75% and throw in that $2k AMEX credit.
Bnjneer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bnjneer »

I am having issues with Better. I am retired. I have no pension and live off of draws from my IRA. I have told them this and provided much documentation, but they are telling me I need a "Distribution Letter" showing that my income from Vanguard will continue into the future. I keep telling them it isn't a pension. They don't care. They say according to Fannie Mae, they need a "Distribution Letter" or they can't go any further. I have way more than I need to pay off the mortgage.

Has anybody run into this and how did you get it resolved. They are ready to stop the process if I can't produce a letter.

Thank you
dfeucht
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dfeucht »

Kyrak wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:12 pm
Thanks everyone for all the great advice. I had them match the 15 1.75 and ended up with these rate tables. Decisions, Decisions.

15 Year
1.75% 0.4 points ($1465)
1.875% -.26 CREDIT (-972)
2.0% CREDIT (-3319)
2.25% CREDIT (-4986)

30 Year
2.5 .7 points (2591)
2.625% 0.03 CREDIT (-136)
2.75% 0.80 CREDIT (-2962)
2.875% 1.04 CREDIT (-3860)
3% 1.34 CREDIT (-4950)

Then of course +2K for the Amex offer. I'm thinking of doing the 2.25 15 since it is a purchase and I should be able to eat up that credit with prepaids or closing costs. Think this is probably good enough but I'm open to any thoughts!
If you are going with the 15 year, you are only getting an incremental $1,667 for 0.25%- jump in rate from 2% to 2.25% (should that be 2.125%?). Whereas you are getting $2,347 for the 0.125% move from 1.875% to 2%. For your $370k loan each 0.125% rate change is about $460 in interest in year 1.

My calc shows a break even on moving from 1.875% to 2% in about 6-7 years.
If you are really only getting $1,670 to go from 2% from 2.25% your break even is only about 2 years.
If you meant going from 2 to 2.125% your break even on that change is about 4-5 years.

I would probably choose the 2% rate in any scenario, but I certainly wouldn't jump 0.25% for $1,600 unless you are pretty certain you are going to refi again in less than a year (which I know many here are!).
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

wxturtle wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:35 pm Locked (for 30 days) with Better last night after getting them to match Bankrate. Nothing else on Bankrate or Lenderfi could match.

$308,000 remaining on a $450,000 home, went with 30 yr/2.5/0 points + no escrow. $3300 closing costs - $2000 AMEX = -$1300 end of day to go from existing 3.625 to 2.5.

Question -- of course ( :oops: ), rates went down today, currently about $400 better in credits. I'm inclined to let sleeping dogs lie but...

1.) I saw somewhere that you can change a rate along the locked rate table before closing. Ex: if we wanted to go from 2.5 to 2.625 (would come out ahead with credits) we could do that with no penalty. Is this true?

2.) Since we had an appraisal waived, could we just cancel the refi app + submit a new one if rates continue to go down in the next week to get better numbers? Or is there a cool down period after applying, even if the app is withdrawn/cancelled?

3.) Anyone gotten a float down or other adjustment after lock?


Have an e-mail in to my LO, but figured I'd get opinions here, too :)
My bankrate pricing also improved by around 2k, but still, nobody else can touch my pricing locked in last week. I have found there is nothing to do but hope rates continue down and can refinance again in a few months :)
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grogu
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by grogu »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:47 pm
grogu wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:22 pm For those who refinanced with Better more than about a month ago (i.e., before it was announced that the adverse market fee was dropped) and received the $2k AMEX credit, are you planning on starting another refinance now (to lock in an additional reduction in your rate), or are you going to wait until closer to the 6-month mark in order to try for a second $2k credit? I suppose a third option is to try to do both (i.e., refinance again now AND when your initial 6-month period is over), but that would require an additional drop in rates (which isn’t impossible).
Will better refinance you right after refinancing you?
People have said it’s hit or miss.

But I didn’t want to bother even asking if the consensus was to just wait a few more months for another Amex credit.
dmcgin01
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dmcgin01 »

Quick question on the refi with Better, do I need to call Better to find out what credits are offered for the different rates? I am not seeing any on Bankrate or Better site. Only 00 or points. Thank you!
vv19
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by vv19 »

grogu wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:55 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:47 pm
grogu wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:22 pm For those who refinanced with Better more than about a month ago (i.e., before it was announced that the adverse market fee was dropped) and received the $2k AMEX credit, are you planning on starting another refinance now (to lock in an additional reduction in your rate), or are you going to wait until closer to the 6-month mark in order to try for a second $2k credit? I suppose a third option is to try to do both (i.e., refinance again now AND when your initial 6-month period is over), but that would require an additional drop in rates (which isn’t impossible).
Will better refinance you right after refinancing you?
People have said it’s hit or miss.

But I didn’t want to bother even asking if the consensus was to just wait a few more months for another Amex credit.
You can refinance with them again but you will not get the Amex credit before a 6 month window for the same property.
eltron
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by eltron »

I'm a bit confused with my current offer from Better. They're offering 15 year @ 1.75% with no points, however, when it's all said and done (once you factor in appraisal fees, credit reports, all the title fees, recording fees/taxes etc.) I'm paying $2,765 to close this out.

I guess I was naive to think I could simply just reduce the rate as I just refinanced 6 months ago. Would these fees be similar with LenderFi since that's who I used 6 months ago?

Trying to decide if paying all this is even worth it to move from 2.125% to 1.75%.

Any insight would be appreciated.
InvestorDave
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by InvestorDave »

eltron wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:48 pm I'm a bit confused with my current offer from Better. They're offering 15 year @ 1.75% with no points, however, when it's all said and done (once you factor in appraisal fees, credit reports, all the title fees, recording fees/taxes etc.) I'm paying $2,765 to close this out.

I guess I was naive to think I could simply just reduce the rate as I just refinanced 6 months ago. Would these fees be similar with LenderFi since that's who I used 6 months ago?

Trying to decide if paying all this is even worth it to move from 2.125% to 1.75%.

Any insight would be appreciated.
I would try to see what your Loan Estimate looks like if you choose 1.875%.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

InvestorDave wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:58 pm
eltron wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:48 pm I'm a bit confused with my current offer from Better. They're offering 15 year @ 1.75% with no points, however, when it's all said and done (once you factor in appraisal fees, credit reports, all the title fees, recording fees/taxes etc.) I'm paying $2,765 to close this out.

I guess I was naive to think I could simply just reduce the rate as I just refinanced 6 months ago. Would these fees be similar with LenderFi since that's who I used 6 months ago?

Trying to decide if paying all this is even worth it to move from 2.125% to 1.75%.

Any insight would be appreciated.
I would try to see what your Loan Estimate looks like if you choose 1.875%.
Or 2%
DesertInvestor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DesertInvestor »

It seems that Better is best with costs and rate including 2k Amex credit. Why are people choosing other lenders?
chrischris
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chrischris »

I refinanced last year to a 20 year with Lenderfi at 2.8% (no fees).

Property value: $710k
Amount owed: $246k

I checked the rates on Bankrate and saw Better was advertising 1.750% with $608 upfront cost on a 15 year. This seemed like a sweet deal. I clicked the link and started an application with Better, only to see their final options proposed to me much worse. They are now offering me 1.75% with $5733 in upfront cost (points).

I took a screenshot and responded to the email I received from Better. I showed the massive increase and discrepancy. The agent responded and said they are built on transparency and will honor advertised prices, she just asked I update the screen shot with more accurate numbers than my initial estimates, which I did. I updated the figures and am waiting to hear back.

To drop down 1% for minimal cost would be huge, I believe, unless anyone disagrees? The small increase in monthly payment to go from a 20 year to 15 year wouldn't be an issue. Am I missing something here?

Also, I don't currently have an Amex card. Can I sign up for an Amex card now and get the promotion? Or do I have to be an existing card holder? I didn't see this in the terms, and wouldn't mind someone commenting on personal experience.
eltron
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by eltron »

DesertInvestor wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:09 pm It seems that Better is best with costs and rate including 2k Amex credit. Why are people choosing other lenders?
Well if LenderFi can get me 1.75%/10 years/no escrow with enough lender credits to cover the closing/associated fees - that currently beats what Better is getting me: 1.75%/15 years/escrow with no lender credits. Even though they say I'm paying $0 in points, after all the associated fees I'd be paying over $2800 to get this rate/term.

Even if you factor in the 2k AMEX credit with Better, I'd still be coming out ahead with LenderFi.

Not to mention if I get to hold onto my cash all year and put that into the market by not being forced to escrow, that money will eventually easily surpass that 2k AMEX credit. Not saying the AMEX deal is a bad one, I just feel like Better is dangling a carrot so that you jump on board and get forced to escrow with them and not look elsewhere.

Maybe I'm just salty about the escrow bit with Better, just how I'm seeing it right now.
Kyrak
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Kyrak »

dfeucht wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:13 pm
Kyrak wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:12 pm
Thanks everyone for all the great advice. I had them match the 15 1.75 and ended up with these rate tables. Decisions, Decisions.

15 Year
1.75% 0.4 points ($1465)
1.875% -.26 CREDIT (-972)
2.0% CREDIT (-3319)
2.25% CREDIT (-4986)

30 Year
2.5 .7 points (2591)
2.625% 0.03 CREDIT (-136)
2.75% 0.80 CREDIT (-2962)
2.875% 1.04 CREDIT (-3860)
3% 1.34 CREDIT (-4950)

Then of course +2K for the Amex offer. I'm thinking of doing the 2.25 15 since it is a purchase and I should be able to eat up that credit with prepaids or closing costs. Think this is probably good enough but I'm open to any thoughts!
If you are going with the 15 year, you are only getting an incremental $1,667 for 0.25%- jump in rate from 2% to 2.25% (should that be 2.125%?). Whereas you are getting $2,347 for the 0.125% move from 1.875% to 2%. For your $370k loan each 0.125% rate change is about $460 in interest in year 1.

My calc shows a break even on moving from 1.875% to 2% in about 6-7 years.
If you are really only getting $1,670 to go from 2% from 2.25% your break even is only about 2 years.
If you meant going from 2 to 2.125% your break even on that change is about 4-5 years.

I would probably choose the 2% rate in any scenario, but I certainly wouldn't jump 0.25% for $1,600 unless you are pretty certain you are going to refi again in less than a year (which I know many here are!).
Not sure what happened but my 15 year rates adjusted downwards (30 year stayed the same) so I ended up locking at 15 year 1.875% with 3916 in credits, then I'll get the $2K Amex credit too. Thanks again everyone! So my process was 1) Submit App at Better, 2)Compare rates at end of application to Better rates on Bankrate 3) Take the pair of offers with the biggest discrepancy then email a screen shot from Bankrate to your loan officer and wait for them to match 4) Ask LO to add Amex Offer to file 5) Lock rate.
Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

Bnjneer wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:01 pm I am having issues with Better. I am retired. I have no pension and live off of draws from my IRA. I have told them this and provided much documentation, but they are telling me I need a "Distribution Letter" showing that my income from Vanguard will continue into the future. I keep telling them it isn't a pension. They don't care. They say according to Fannie Mae, they need a "Distribution Letter" or they can't go any further. I have way more than I need to pay off the mortgage.

Has anybody run into this and how did you get it resolved. They are ready to stop the process if I can't produce a letter.

Thank you
I ran into something similar with Better.

Both Chase and Rocket Mortgage offer asset based loans. I currently have a loan in process with Rocket, I have heard nothing about a distribution type requirement from them or Chase.

Rocket also has an Amex $2000 credit promotion. I found out yesterday that you must request the promotion *before* submitting your loan application. I will probably not qualify because I did not do that. Caveat emptor.
Last edited by Average Investor on Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tomorrow never knows.
DesertInvestor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DesertInvestor »

eltron wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:23 pm
DesertInvestor wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:09 pm It seems that Better is best with costs and rate including 2k Amex credit. Why are people choosing other lenders?
Well if LenderFi can get me 1.75%/10 years/no escrow with enough lender credits to cover the closing/associated fees - that currently beats what Better is getting me: 1.75%/15 years/escrow with no lender credits. Even though they say I'm paying $0 in points, after all the associated fees I'd be paying over $2800 to get this rate/term.

Even if you factor in the 2k AMEX credit with Better, I'd still be coming out ahead with LenderFi.

Not to mention if I get to hold onto my cash all year and put that into the market by not being forced to escrow, that money will eventually easily surpass that 2k AMEX credit. Not saying the AMEX deal is a bad one, I just feel like Better is dangling a carrot so that you jump on board and get forced to escrow with them and not look elsewhere.

Maybe I'm just salty about the escrow bit with Better, just how I'm seeing it right now.
How did you get no points? Did you ask for no points? I’m thinking the 30 year loan because rates are so low inflation will eat away at the balance.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

eltron wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:23 pm
DesertInvestor wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:09 pm It seems that Better is best with costs and rate including 2k Amex credit. Why are people choosing other lenders?
Well if LenderFi can get me 1.75%/10 years/no escrow with enough lender credits to cover the closing/associated fees - that currently beats what Better is getting me: 1.75%/15 years/escrow with no lender credits. Even though they say I'm paying $0 in points, after all the associated fees I'd be paying over $2800 to get this rate/term.

Even if you factor in the 2k AMEX credit with Better, I'd still be coming out ahead with LenderFi.

Not to mention if I get to hold onto my cash all year and put that into the market by not being forced to escrow, that money will eventually easily surpass that 2k AMEX credit. Not saying the AMEX deal is a bad one, I just feel like Better is dangling a carrot so that you jump on board and get forced to escrow with them and not look elsewhere.

Maybe I'm just salty about the escrow bit with Better, just how I'm seeing it right now.
What makes you think you are required to escrow with Better? That's not a thing.
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:58 pm
eltron wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:23 pm
DesertInvestor wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:09 pm It seems that Better is best with costs and rate including 2k Amex credit. Why are people choosing other lenders?
Well if LenderFi can get me 1.75%/10 years/no escrow with enough lender credits to cover the closing/associated fees - that currently beats what Better is getting me: 1.75%/15 years/escrow with no lender credits. Even though they say I'm paying $0 in points, after all the associated fees I'd be paying over $2800 to get this rate/term.

Even if you factor in the 2k AMEX credit with Better, I'd still be coming out ahead with LenderFi.

Not to mention if I get to hold onto my cash all year and put that into the market by not being forced to escrow, that money will eventually easily surpass that 2k AMEX credit. Not saying the AMEX deal is a bad one, I just feel like Better is dangling a carrot so that you jump on board and get forced to escrow with them and not look elsewhere.

Maybe I'm just salty about the escrow bit with Better, just how I'm seeing it right now.
What makes you think you are required to escrow with Better? That's not a thing.
You won’t get that rate without escrow is probably the point.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

truenyer wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:59 pm
tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:58 pm
eltron wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:23 pm
DesertInvestor wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:09 pm It seems that Better is best with costs and rate including 2k Amex credit. Why are people choosing other lenders?
Well if LenderFi can get me 1.75%/10 years/no escrow with enough lender credits to cover the closing/associated fees - that currently beats what Better is getting me: 1.75%/15 years/escrow with no lender credits. Even though they say I'm paying $0 in points, after all the associated fees I'd be paying over $2800 to get this rate/term.

Even if you factor in the 2k AMEX credit with Better, I'd still be coming out ahead with LenderFi.

Not to mention if I get to hold onto my cash all year and put that into the market by not being forced to escrow, that money will eventually easily surpass that 2k AMEX credit. Not saying the AMEX deal is a bad one, I just feel like Better is dangling a carrot so that you jump on board and get forced to escrow with them and not look elsewhere.

Maybe I'm just salty about the escrow bit with Better, just how I'm seeing it right now.
What makes you think you are required to escrow with Better? That's not a thing.
You won’t get that rate without escrow is probably the point.
LenderFI charges more to waive the escrow too though.
Bnjneer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bnjneer »

Average Investor -
Thank you for the reply. So you think I won't be able to do a refinance with Better? That will bum me out as I don't see Rocket Mortgage or Chase having as good of rates as Better. Better was giving me 2.50% with $4,347 in lender credits, plus $500 cash back plus the $2k credit on the Amex card. Total closing costs were only $1328. I will be disappointed if I can't figure out how to get Better to make this work.

Someone else said to do the following, "At Vanguard we have Automatic Transactions that are monthly withdrawals to checking with a frequency of every month . We printed out that page and provided it as proof of “income”. Our bank statements reflected those monthly deposits."

I also tried this route, and Better still won't accept it. funny they accepted it for someone else.

Thank you again.
eltron
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by eltron »

DesertInvestor wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:48 pm
eltron wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:23 pm
DesertInvestor wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:09 pm It seems that Better is best with costs and rate including 2k Amex credit. Why are people choosing other lenders?
Well if LenderFi can get me 1.75%/10 years/no escrow with enough lender credits to cover the closing/associated fees - that currently beats what Better is getting me: 1.75%/15 years/escrow with no lender credits. Even though they say I'm paying $0 in points, after all the associated fees I'd be paying over $2800 to get this rate/term.

Even if you factor in the 2k AMEX credit with Better, I'd still be coming out ahead with LenderFi.

Not to mention if I get to hold onto my cash all year and put that into the market by not being forced to escrow, that money will eventually easily surpass that 2k AMEX credit. Not saying the AMEX deal is a bad one, I just feel like Better is dangling a carrot so that you jump on board and get forced to escrow with them and not look elsewhere.

Maybe I'm just salty about the escrow bit with Better, just how I'm seeing it right now.
How did you get no points? Did you ask for no points? I’m thinking the 30 year loan because rates are so low inflation will eat away at the balance.
I had a 10 year loan with LenderFi and the shortest term with Better was 15 years. Better said no points to get to 1.75% but they had no additional lender credits to avoid the $2800+ in appraisal fees, title insurance, etc. whereas LenderFi is able to give me enough lender credits to be a true no cost close, I.e. none of the aforementioned fees.

Unfortunately I didn’t commit to LenderFi on Monday when the 10 year was 1.75%, so now the next true no close rate is 1.875%. Trying to decide on whether to commit to that or roll the dice in the hopes 1.75% comes back to true no close.
eltron
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by eltron »

tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:58 pm
eltron wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:23 pm
DesertInvestor wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:09 pm It seems that Better is best with costs and rate including 2k Amex credit. Why are people choosing other lenders?
Well if LenderFi can get me 1.75%/10 years/no escrow with enough lender credits to cover the closing/associated fees - that currently beats what Better is getting me: 1.75%/15 years/escrow with no lender credits. Even though they say I'm paying $0 in points, after all the associated fees I'd be paying over $2800 to get this rate/term.

Even if you factor in the 2k AMEX credit with Better, I'd still be coming out ahead with LenderFi.

Not to mention if I get to hold onto my cash all year and put that into the market by not being forced to escrow, that money will eventually easily surpass that 2k AMEX credit. Not saying the AMEX deal is a bad one, I just feel like Better is dangling a carrot so that you jump on board and get forced to escrow with them and not look elsewhere.

Maybe I'm just salty about the escrow bit with Better, just how I'm seeing it right now.
What makes you think you are required to escrow with Better? That's not a thing.
The person I spoke with said I would need to escrow to get the rate I wanted.
Last edited by eltron on Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

Bnjneer wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:08 pm Average Investor -
Thank you for the reply. So you think I won't be able to do a refinance with Better? That will bum me out as I don't see Rocket Mortgage or Chase having as good of rates as Better. Better was giving me 2.50% with $4,347 in lender credits, plus $500 cash back plus the $2k credit on the Amex card. Total closing costs were only $1328. I will be disappointed if I can't figure out how to get Better to make this work.

Someone else said to do the following, "At Vanguard we have Automatic Transactions that are monthly withdrawals to checking with a frequency of every month . We printed out that page and provided it as proof of “income”. Our bank statements reflected those monthly deposits."

I also tried this route, and Better still won't accept it. funny they accepted it for someone else.

Thank you again.
Better declined to loan to me based on current income (self employed) despite substantial assets.

Chase offers a .5% discount if you move over $1M in investment assets and $50k in cash (can be moved out after close). I locked a 30 year at 2.875 (2.375 with discount) but costs were $3200.

With Rocket I locked 1.875 15 year, costs are $3100. Unfortunately I will not likely get the $2000 Amex credit due to my error (I am going to ask if they can still offer it).

Thank you.
Tomorrow never knows.
DesertInvestor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DesertInvestor »

Has anybody found unique relationship pricing with the large banks? I’ve heard if you have enough money in your account you can get extremely good rates with the large banks.
MadDwag
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MadDwag »

truenyer wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:59 pm
tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:58 pm
eltron wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:23 pm
DesertInvestor wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:09 pm It seems that Better is best with costs and rate including 2k Amex credit. Why are people choosing other lenders?
Well if LenderFi can get me 1.75%/10 years/no escrow with enough lender credits to cover the closing/associated fees - that currently beats what Better is getting me: 1.75%/15 years/escrow with no lender credits. Even though they say I'm paying $0 in points, after all the associated fees I'd be paying over $2800 to get this rate/term.

Even if you factor in the 2k AMEX credit with Better, I'd still be coming out ahead with LenderFi.

Not to mention if I get to hold onto my cash all year and put that into the market by not being forced to escrow, that money will eventually easily surpass that 2k AMEX credit. Not saying the AMEX deal is a bad one, I just feel like Better is dangling a carrot so that you jump on board and get forced to escrow with them and not look elsewhere.

Maybe I'm just salty about the escrow bit with Better, just how I'm seeing it right now.
What makes you think you are required to escrow with Better? That's not a thing.
You won’t get that rate without escrow is probably the point.
Mine was only $182 more to waive escrow with Better.
nerdymarketer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nerdymarketer »

Within the Better portal you can toggle the escrow option on/off to see how much you'll save by doing escrow. For me it was < $150.

I've read a lot of borrow stories on here about escrow companies screwing up and taking the borrower hours and hours on the phone to get it corrected, so I gladly opted out of escrow and lost out on the $150. It's just not worth my time.

Besides, if I really want the money, I can make more money with credit card sign up bonuses by paying property taxes and insurance through them.

But I really appreciate Better's transparency on pricing. It's so refreshing to be able to see the whole rate sheet and also flip escrow on/off or cash out amount from $0-whatever at will. No other lender I've worked with operates this way.

What's interesting is if you read up on the founder, he's got a bad reputation as dishonest. Sued his cofounder of a previous startup in pretty acrimonious way. Do a little digging and there's multiple ugly stories across more than a decade.

Yet all my interactions as a customer have been amazingly positive. My last loan with them went great until the very end. Then they discovered a mistake that was only partly their fault. They could have adjusted some of the loan terms and made it a wash, but instead they cheerfully fixed it by tossing in ~$5k in credits and moving quickly to make sure the close date didn't change. I'm sure they lost money on that deal. Talk about putting the customer first.
mervinj7
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mervinj7 »

DesertInvestor wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:43 pm Has anybody found unique relationship pricing with the large banks? I’ve heard if you have enough money in your account you can get extremely good rates with the large banks.
Yes, plenty of folks in this thread below.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=280692

Note, you don't need $1M+ to get discounts. Some banks offer discounts with as little as $250k.
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

Bnjneer wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:01 pm I am having issues with Better. I am retired. I have no pension and live off of draws from my IRA. I have told them this and provided much documentation, but they are telling me I need a "Distribution Letter" showing that my income from Vanguard will continue into the future. I keep telling them it isn't a pension. They don't care. They say according to Fannie Mae, they need a "Distribution Letter" or they can't go any further. I have way more than I need to pay off the mortgage.

Has anybody run into this and how did you get it resolved. They are ready to stop the process if I can't produce a letter.

Thank you
Ask VG to send you a letter saying that your $x amount monthly distribution will continue. Some VG reps will do it.
Bnjneer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bnjneer »

bgh11:

I will call VG again, and ask them to submit a letter such as that. I can't see why they would do this, as I don't use them as an "advisor", but it is worth a try. Hope I can get lucky on finding a nice VG rep.

Thank you
kd2008
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kd2008 »

We are getting a 204k mortgage at 15-yr @ 2%. It seems one pays roughly $1200 for each 1/8 pt rate reduction with the rate table given to us. So technically pay 16 points and have a 0% mortgage then the interest savings are huge and monthly payment lower. Has anyone contemplated this idea? Obviously lender won't do it. But a thought exercise.
dave8228
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dave8228 »

Quick question: today I pay $70/month for PMI as I have only 15% equity in the home based on an appraisal done last summer when I refinanced. That one was some sort of "desktop appraisal" where nobody actually came to my house. Today, I'm looking to get rid of PMI. We all know home values have gone up over the past year, so the strategy I'm looking into is doing another refi with an appraisal that would more than likely value the home higher than last year, and thus put me at the 20% equity mark eliminating the PMI requirement. Any thoughts on this?
Ryzen
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ryzen »

dave8228 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:54 am Quick question: today I pay $70/month for PMI as I have only 15% equity in the home based on an appraisal done last summer when I refinanced. That one was some sort of "desktop appraisal" where nobody actually came to my house. Today, I'm looking to get rid of PMI. We all know home values have gone up over the past year, so the strategy I'm looking into is doing another refi with an appraisal that would more than likely value the home higher than last year, and thus put me at the 20% equity mark eliminating the PMI requirement. Any thoughts on this?
Try a refi where you put in your home value at something that would get you over 80% LTV. You may end up getting an appraisal waiver.
juice421
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by juice421 »

dave8228 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:54 am Quick question: today I pay $70/month for PMI as I have only 15% equity in the home based on an appraisal done last summer when I refinanced. That one was some sort of "desktop appraisal" where nobody actually came to my house. Today, I'm looking to get rid of PMI. We all know home values have gone up over the past year, so the strategy I'm looking into is doing another refi with an appraisal that would more than likely value the home higher than last year, and thus put me at the 20% equity mark eliminating the PMI requirement. Any thoughts on this?
I just "estimated" my property's new market value and gave that as the value during my refi and it was accepted, which hit the magical LTV where PMI dropped off.
dave8228
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dave8228 »

Ryzen wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:07 am
dave8228 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:54 am Quick question: today I pay $70/month for PMI as I have only 15% equity in the home based on an appraisal done last summer when I refinanced. That one was some sort of "desktop appraisal" where nobody actually came to my house. Today, I'm looking to get rid of PMI. We all know home values have gone up over the past year, so the strategy I'm looking into is doing another refi with an appraisal that would more than likely value the home higher than last year, and thus put me at the 20% equity mark eliminating the PMI requirement. Any thoughts on this?
Try a refi where you put in your home value at something that would get you over 80% LTV. You may end up getting an appraisal waiver.
juice421 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:37 am
dave8228 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:54 am Quick question: today I pay $70/month for PMI as I have only 15% equity in the home based on an appraisal done last summer when I refinanced. That one was some sort of "desktop appraisal" where nobody actually came to my house. Today, I'm looking to get rid of PMI. We all know home values have gone up over the past year, so the strategy I'm looking into is doing another refi with an appraisal that would more than likely value the home higher than last year, and thus put me at the 20% equity mark eliminating the PMI requirement. Any thoughts on this?
I just "estimated" my property's new market value and gave that as the value during my refi and it was accepted, which hit the magical LTV where PMI dropped off.
Ahhh okay, good to hear that, I'll give it a try, thank you both.
BoglerInProgress
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BoglerInProgress »

Beginner questions here. I am very new at this and grateful for your help.

We just closed on our first home, literally one week ago. The local lender we used during the purchase was unable or unwilling to provide a courtesy float-down while we were under contract, so our brand-new mortgage is 30 years at 2.875%.

Places like LenderFi and Loan Cabin suggest that I could immediately to refinance to 2.5% with approximately zero points, or refinance to 2.625% with negative points and realize multiple thousands of dollars in lender credits. Ideally, I would have Better match one of these offers, enabling us to stack the AmEx promotion on top of it. If everything were to go right, combining lender credits and AmEx, it appears we could receive > $5k plus immediately lower our P&I.

I understand two complications to consider are (1) whether to be sensitive to the prior loan officer's own commission; and (2) dial in closing costs and our local tax situation and make sure we'd still be happy with the net cash profit.

Are there any other glaring reasons not to immediately forge ahead with this? I understand it might be kind of a hardball move to pull the rug out from the local lender who was a more responsive partner during the homebuying process than these mediocre online companies would have been, but I am wondering if there is any separate financial or legal factor on my end that I have glossed over.

How much of a pain would it be to close the brand-new escrow account that we just funded and initiate a new one?
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

BoglerInProgress wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:39 am Beginner questions here. I am very new at this and grateful for your help.

We just closed on our first home, literally one week ago. The local lender we used during the purchase was unable or unwilling to provide a courtesy float-down while we were under contract, so our brand-new mortgage is 30 years at 2.875%.

Places like LenderFi and Loan Cabin suggest that I could immediately to refinance to 2.5% with approximately zero points, or refinance to 2.625% with negative points and realize multiple thousands of dollars in lender credits. Ideally, I would have Better match one of these offers, enabling us to stack the AmEx promotion on top of it. If everything were to go right, combining lender credits and AmEx, it appears we could receive > $5k plus immediately lower our P&I.

I understand two complications to consider are (1) whether to be sensitive to the prior loan officer's own commission; and (2) dial in closing costs and our local tax situation and make sure we'd still be happy with the net cash profit.

Are there any other glaring reasons not to immediately forge ahead with this? I understand it might be kind of a hardball move to pull the rug out from the local lender who was a more responsive partner during the homebuying process than these mediocre online companies would have been, but I am wondering if there is any separate financial or legal factor on my end that I have glossed over.

How much of a pain would it be to close the brand-new escrow account that we just funded and initiate a new one?
What does a "local tax situation" have to do with anything?
MrJedi
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

BoglerInProgress wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:39 am Beginner questions here. I am very new at this and grateful for your help.

We just closed on our first home, literally one week ago. The local lender we used during the purchase was unable or unwilling to provide a courtesy float-down while we were under contract, so our brand-new mortgage is 30 years at 2.875%.

Places like LenderFi and Loan Cabin suggest that I could immediately to refinance to 2.5% with approximately zero points, or refinance to 2.625% with negative points and realize multiple thousands of dollars in lender credits. Ideally, I would have Better match one of these offers, enabling us to stack the AmEx promotion on top of it. If everything were to go right, combining lender credits and AmEx, it appears we could receive > $5k plus immediately lower our P&I.

I understand two complications to consider are (1) whether to be sensitive to the prior loan officer's own commission; and (2) dial in closing costs and our local tax situation and make sure we'd still be happy with the net cash profit.

Are there any other glaring reasons not to immediately forge ahead with this? I understand it might be kind of a hardball move to pull the rug out from the local lender who was a more responsive partner during the homebuying process than these mediocre online companies would have been, but I am wondering if there is any separate financial or legal factor on my end that I have glossed over.

How much of a pain would it be to close the brand-new escrow account that we just funded and initiate a new one?
The old escrow should automatically get refunded to you after the old loan is paid. The only "pain" is you would need to float some extra cash (or roll it into the loan) since you need to fund the new escrow before you get refunded for the old one.

If the local lender doesn't want to compete, that's on them. The extra service and handholding is what you are paying for, which can easily be thousands of dollars compared to an online lender. Not worth it IMO, but not everybody is comfortable with the process so it is personal. Some local lenders like to tout that they don't sell your loan or servicing so it is less of a hassle for you. Slightly true, but the only real hassle is setting up a new online account and payments if the servicing gets sold. Again, is that worth several thousand dollars? Sometimes the servicing even gets sold before the first installment is due and lands with somebody who intends to hold it...only one new account and done.
BoglerInProgress
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BoglerInProgress »

tj wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:44 am What does a "local tax situation" have to do with anything?
This could be a really dumb beginner question. But here's what I mean.

Different companies' online estimators of refi closing costs estimate that I would owe many thousands of dollars in county and state transfer taxes. Basically as much again as the substantial amount of taxes I just paid to purchase the house. If I did indeed owe these taxes again, the entire refi would be a net cost for me and I would just forget about it.

However, my own initial research suggests that my jurisdictions may waive most or all of these taxes on a refinance of a primary home. So perhaps the lenders' websites are just being dumb and applying the tax rates on a new purchase to a refi where they would not apply.

I may be thinking about this all wrong, so advice welcome. I am not sure what is standard here. Would it be normal to owe a significant amount of state and local transfer taxes on a refinance, or is it most likely that they would indeed be waived? I am still in the early phases of looking into this and dialing in my research.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

BoglerInProgress wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:04 am
tj wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:44 am What does a "local tax situation" have to do with anything?
This could be a really dumb beginner question. But here's what I mean.

Different companies' online estimators of refi closing costs estimate that I would owe many thousands of dollars in county and state transfer taxes. Basically as much again as the substantial amount of taxes I just paid to purchase the house. If I did indeed owe these taxes again, the entire refi would be a net cost for me and I would just forget about it.

However, my own initial research suggests that my jurisdictions may waive most or all of these taxes on a refinance of a primary home. So perhaps the lenders' websites are just being dumb and applying the tax rates on a new purchase to a refi where they would not apply.

I may be thinking about this all wrong, so advice welcome. I am not sure what is standard here. Would it be normal to owe a significant amount of state and local transfer taxes on a refinance, or is it most likely that they would indeed be waived? I am still in the early phases of looking into this and dialing in my research.
If such taxes are steep and duplicated, certainly it would make less sense. It doesn't look like I was charged a transfer tax on my purchase.
juice421
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by juice421 »

BoglerInProgress wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:04 am
tj wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:44 am What does a "local tax situation" have to do with anything?
This could be a really dumb beginner question. But here's what I mean.

Different companies' online estimators of refi closing costs estimate that I would owe many thousands of dollars in county and state transfer taxes. Basically as much again as the substantial amount of taxes I just paid to purchase the house. If I did indeed owe these taxes again, the entire refi would be a net cost for me and I would just forget about it.

However, my own initial research suggests that my jurisdictions may waive most or all of these taxes on a refinance of a primary home. So perhaps the lenders' websites are just being dumb and applying the tax rates on a new purchase to a refi where they would not apply.

I may be thinking about this all wrong, so advice welcome. I am not sure what is standard here. Would it be normal to owe a significant amount of state and local transfer taxes on a refinance, or is it most likely that they would indeed be waived? I am still in the early phases of looking into this and dialing in my research.
Thousands for transfer taxes sounds a bit much. I believe on my initial loan estimate from Better.com had transfer and tax fees estimated at $300, but when I got a specific quote from Radian, at least for my PA state/county transfer fees were actually $0. And regarding whether to wait or refi quickly, business is business. You have to do what's in your best interest, but obviously that's up to you to make that determination.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

BoglerInProgress wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:04 am
tj wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:44 am What does a "local tax situation" have to do with anything?
This could be a really dumb beginner question. But here's what I mean.

Different companies' online estimators of refi closing costs estimate that I would owe many thousands of dollars in county and state transfer taxes. Basically as much again as the substantial amount of taxes I just paid to purchase the house. If I did indeed owe these taxes again, the entire refi would be a net cost for me and I would just forget about it.

However, my own initial research suggests that my jurisdictions may waive most or all of these taxes on a refinance of a primary home. So perhaps the lenders' websites are just being dumb and applying the tax rates on a new purchase to a refi where they would not apply.

I may be thinking about this all wrong, so advice welcome. I am not sure what is standard here. Would it be normal to owe a significant amount of state and local transfer taxes on a refinance, or is it most likely that they would indeed be waived? I am still in the early phases of looking into this and dialing in my research.
Taxes associated with a refi should be less than for a purchase, at least in my area.

You can get a quote from Better, and they will give you a Loan Estimate without a hard credit pull. That will give you an idea of what the costs will look like. In my case, they slightly overestimated the taxes -- $350 versus $150 actual -- but at least you will get a pretty good idea.
bgh11
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bgh11 »

Bnjneer wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:18 am bgh11:

I will call VG again, and ask them to submit a letter such as that. I can't see why they would do this, as I don't use them as an "advisor", but it is worth a try. Hope I can get lucky on finding a nice VG rep.

Thank you
I would push a little by saying you need a written confirmation of your monthly IRA distribution is established and will continue until you request to cancel.
ossipago
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ossipago »

Can someone let me know why there is such a big difference between loans that are under the conforming limit even in high-cost areas with expanded conforming limits?

In DC, at a current balance of $580,000, I can only get rates of 2.75% no cost for a 30-year loan, but at $548,000 the no cost option is 2.375%. This is irrespective of my LTV. This seems like a big difference. Is that correct?

I thought lenders liked bigger loans better than smaller ones?
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truenyer
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Post by truenyer »

ossipago wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:27 pm Can someone let me know why there is such a big difference between loans that are under the conforming limit even in high-cost areas with expanded conforming limits?

In DC, at a current balance of $580,000, I can only get rates of 2.75% no cost for a 30-year loan, but at $548,000 the no cost option is 2.375%. This is irrespective of my LTV. This seems like a big difference. Is that correct?

I thought lenders liked bigger loans better than smaller ones?
Threshold between conforming and super-conforming is $548,250, that's why. Above that amount the rates will be higher.

In this thread where people talk about "higher" loans getting lower rates, we typically mean loans close to the confirming (not super conforming) limit as opposed to $100k-$150k loans.
1andDone
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by 1andDone »

Locked in a 20 year at 2.375% (moving from a 30 year at 2.625%). We should net ~$4,000 (lender and AMEX credits minus 3rd party fees/taxes). This is our third money-making refi since last year - we started at a 3.5% 30 year. Oh, what a time to be alive! :happy
Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

To calculate a paid refinance breakeven point does one take the cost of the refinance divided by the difference in monthly interest from the existing loan and the new loan?
Tomorrow never knows.
Ghost2
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Ghost2 »

Is there an online calculator available somewhere which compares multiple refi options (and the original loan)? I can only find calculators that let me compare one refi to the original at a time. I'd really love to have one that I can save so that when I get additional options I can just add them in. And I'd love it to have several factors to consider -- credits, cost to decline escrow, interest rate on savings, tax bracket, years in house/years with current loan, etc.

Does such a thing exist? If not, does someone here have enough time to create one for us to use?
mirror
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mirror »

Sanity check since I may be doing some mental gymnastics to make this work in my head...

Does going from 15 yr 2.375% to 30 year 2.375% for a net cost of ~$1,700 ($3,700 closing cost -$2k amex credit) to free up cash flow make sense on a $130k mortgage? Payment would go from $880 to $515. No pts option for 30 yr at 2.75% ($540 pmt) so would come out ahead +$1,300 ($700 closing cost -$2k amex credit) . No plans to move for several years due to kids' school. I might just be getting caught up with the low rate of 2.375% for 30 years which is a $3k additional cost.
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