Refinance Mega Thread

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Miguelito
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Miguelito »

Should I wait until August to refi because of the fee that is going away or is that being factored in now on new quotes?
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

Miguelito wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:44 pm Should I wait until August to refi because of the fee that is going away or is that being factored in now on new quotes?
New quotes today already have the fee "removed." This happened when rates dropped a few weeks ago after the announcement.
tj
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Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:39 pm
tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:27 pm
Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:24 pm My previous lender just sent out a lengthly email explaining when one can refinance. This lender also refused to lower my rate after locking when a lower rate was available. They will unfortunately be getting a clawback on their commish
How Soon Can I Refinance?
I hope that you and your family are doing well and having a safe summer.

As rates have dropped over the past few months, I have received many questions regarding how soon a mortgage customer can refinance after recently closing on a mortgage. The purpose of my email is to help you understand the answer to that question.

While most loans do not have a pre-payment penalty, you need to keep your loan for at least 6 months depending on your lender. Most lenders make their money by selling their loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for a premium. This is how lenders make money on loans without charging you origination charges and fees. This is how Local Mortgage makes its money. When you pay off your loan in a short time frame (under 6 months), then the lender has to repay its profits back to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And if your lender happens to pay some or all of your closing costs, they lose that money too.

So why should you care if your lender has to repay their profits on your loan? Because this raises the cost of mortgage loans. Lenders will start to increase their rates to offset potential penalties or refuse to front the money to pay your closing costs. As you may already know, there are only so many good lenders that are competitive and trustworthy. Make sure you are fair to those lenders that provide a quality service so that they can continue to serve you and your communities with great rates and low fees.

Local Mortgage tries to not pay off loans that were recently closed because we do not want to cause other lenders to repay their premiums. Unfortunately, not all lenders have this policy as they will refinance anyone without regard to the overall impact on the mortgage industry. Early payoff penalties have started to become a larger problem for all lenders, including Local Mortgage.

Some lenders have different agreements with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well as other secondary market investors, so if you are going to pay off a loan within a short time frame, be sure to check with your lender. It's always better to ask and understand their policy so you can avoid unintentionally causing your lender a financial loss.

As always, thank you for your business and referrals.
How long are you waiting to pull the trigger in between when you closed the loan from them and your re-fi?
I already have the loan. Ive only made one payment. I just don't know if this amex deal plus low rates will be around in the future. I doubt the refi with better will take 5 months, but if it does I guess a clawback won't happen.
Same situation. My purchase closes this week. First payment not due until 9/1.

Rates dropped over 30 bps in between the lock and closing. Not one peep about lowering rate due to the change in market.
Miguelito
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Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:21 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Miguelito »

truenyer wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:45 pmNew quotes today already have the fee "removed." This happened when rates dropped a few weeks ago after the announcement.
Thanks!
rage_phish
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:27 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rage_phish »

Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:24 pm My previous lender just sent out a lengthly email explaining when one can refinance. This lender also refused to lower my rate after locking when a lower rate was available. They will unfortunately be getting a clawback on their commish
How Soon Can I Refinance?
I hope that you and your family are doing well and having a safe summer.

As rates have dropped over the past few months, I have received many questions regarding how soon a mortgage customer can refinance after recently closing on a mortgage. The purpose of my email is to help you understand the answer to that question.

While most loans do not have a pre-payment penalty, you need to keep your loan for at least 6 months depending on your lender. Most lenders make their money by selling their loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for a premium. This is how lenders make money on loans without charging you origination charges and fees. This is how Local Mortgage makes its money. When you pay off your loan in a short time frame (under 6 months), then the lender has to repay its profits back to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And if your lender happens to pay some or all of your closing costs, they lose that money too.

So why should you care if your lender has to repay their profits on your loan? Because this raises the cost of mortgage loans. Lenders will start to increase their rates to offset potential penalties or refuse to front the money to pay your closing costs. As you may already know, there are only so many good lenders that are competitive and trustworthy. Make sure you are fair to those lenders that provide a quality service so that they can continue to serve you and your communities with great rates and low fees.

Local Mortgage tries to not pay off loans that were recently closed because we do not want to cause other lenders to repay their premiums. Unfortunately, not all lenders have this policy as they will refinance anyone without regard to the overall impact on the mortgage industry. Early payoff penalties have started to become a larger problem for all lenders, including Local Mortgage.

Some lenders have different agreements with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well as other secondary market investors, so if you are going to pay off a loan within a short time frame, be sure to check with your lender. It's always better to ask and understand their policy so you can avoid unintentionally causing your lender a financial loss.

As always, thank you for your business and referrals.
We’re within 6 months on our new home. And I’d love to lower things with a refi right now. But we’re waiting the 6 months. Hope there’s some good opportunities out there come October for us!
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

rage_phish wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:45 pm
Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:24 pm My previous lender just sent out a lengthly email explaining when one can refinance. This lender also refused to lower my rate after locking when a lower rate was available. They will unfortunately be getting a clawback on their commish
How Soon Can I Refinance?
I hope that you and your family are doing well and having a safe summer.

As rates have dropped over the past few months, I have received many questions regarding how soon a mortgage customer can refinance after recently closing on a mortgage. The purpose of my email is to help you understand the answer to that question.

While most loans do not have a pre-payment penalty, you need to keep your loan for at least 6 months depending on your lender. Most lenders make their money by selling their loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for a premium. This is how lenders make money on loans without charging you origination charges and fees. This is how Local Mortgage makes its money. When you pay off your loan in a short time frame (under 6 months), then the lender has to repay its profits back to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And if your lender happens to pay some or all of your closing costs, they lose that money too.

So why should you care if your lender has to repay their profits on your loan? Because this raises the cost of mortgage loans. Lenders will start to increase their rates to offset potential penalties or refuse to front the money to pay your closing costs. As you may already know, there are only so many good lenders that are competitive and trustworthy. Make sure you are fair to those lenders that provide a quality service so that they can continue to serve you and your communities with great rates and low fees.

Local Mortgage tries to not pay off loans that were recently closed because we do not want to cause other lenders to repay their premiums. Unfortunately, not all lenders have this policy as they will refinance anyone without regard to the overall impact on the mortgage industry. Early payoff penalties have started to become a larger problem for all lenders, including Local Mortgage.

Some lenders have different agreements with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well as other secondary market investors, so if you are going to pay off a loan within a short time frame, be sure to check with your lender. It's always better to ask and understand their policy so you can avoid unintentionally causing your lender a financial loss.

As always, thank you for your business and referrals.
We’re within 6 months on our new home. And I’d love to lower things with a refi right now. But we’re waiting the 6 months. Hope there’s some good opportunities out there come October for us!
You could see if Better will do a 90 day lock. You're not that far from October.
rage_phish
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Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:27 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rage_phish »

Hmmm good idea
KNMLHD
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:57 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by KNMLHD »

newbie20 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:53 pm
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:47 pm
Until the HELOC is closed, the HELOC lender remains on the title (which necessitates the need for a subordination). The only way to remove them is to fully close the HELOC, which will then kick off a letter to the title company indicating removal of the lender from your title. Without this, the lender, regardless of the balance, remains on the title, forcing a subordination.

If you do close it out, have the lender issue you a letter indicating that it is closed, balance is 0, etc. That letter "should" be good enough to get things "unstuck" from a subordination process. It may take a few days to a couple weeks to get the HELOC lender off the title itself.
Your explanation makes sense for the title process but what I don't understand is why does/should it prevent Better from offering price matching on their Bankrate offers? I am also curious to see if others in forum have experienced this situation.
Some lenders will not mess around with subordinations... period. LenderFi is another one that comes to mind. The reason being the subordination process can take several weeks to move the HELOC lender behind the new mortgage holder (your refi lender will want to be first in line)... this most likely will take longer a 30 day lock will cover. Have heard of some horror stories of subordinations taking several months.

Better's rates on Bankrate assume (1) No Subordinations, (2) 30 day lock, and (3) you will be escrowing.
KNMLHD
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:57 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by KNMLHD »

Anyone here with experience using Sage Mortgage? They seem to have fairly aggressive pricing - almost to the point where I wonder if Better would even be willing to match a LE.
tj
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Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:53 pm Anyone here with experience using Sage Mortgage? They seem to have fairly aggressive pricing - almost to the point where I wonder if Better would even be willing to match a LE.
Where are you seeing thier pricing? I never heard of them, don't see any rates on their site.
newbie20
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

truenyer wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:54 pm
Change your Bankrate inputs to match your current LTV, including the line of credit available. That might push your LTV over a limit of theirs. If adding the HELOC to your existing loan balance on bankrate doesn't change their rates, then I would push back on Better.
Well, your suggestions seems to have worked, thank you! :happy I checked Bankrate by adding my HELOC limit to the loan amount and it did not change anything. So, I pushed back on Better. He came around saying, "I explained the situation to our internal teams and we were able to honor this pricing".

The updated rate table now shows almost $4,000 in more credits than before for 30 yr @ 2.75%.

Now, my questions are -
1. Should I roll escrow into closing costs to see if that will increase the credit further?
2. Can I see impact of doing this without locking the rate on their site?
3. If I escrow now, can I have it removed later (just before closing or a few months after closing)?
4. Also, how will I justify going from 30-yr/2.5% to 30 yr/2.75% (same term, higher rate)?
5. The new LE shows the following for H. Does this mean that I will be paid AmEx credit outside of closing?
H. Other $0
AMEX Credit, Paid by Better POC ($2,000) $0
giddyup969
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:27 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by giddyup969 »

tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:22 pm
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:53 pm Anyone here with experience using Sage Mortgage? They seem to have fairly aggressive pricing - almost to the point where I wonder if Better would even be willing to match a LE.
Where are you seeing thier pricing? I never heard of them, don't see any rates on their site.

I contacted them view bankrate because the rates were really low. Come to find out the origination fee is $3500. No, thank you :)
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

newbie20 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:42 pm
truenyer wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:54 pm
Change your Bankrate inputs to match your current LTV, including the line of credit available. That might push your LTV over a limit of theirs. If adding the HELOC to your existing loan balance on bankrate doesn't change their rates, then I would push back on Better.
Well, your suggestions seems to have worked, thank you! :happy I checked Bankrate by adding my HELOC limit to the loan amount and it did not change anything. So, I pushed back on Better. He came around saying, "I explained the situation to our internal teams and we were able to honor this pricing".

The updated rate table now shows almost $4,000 in more credits than before for 30 yr @ 2.75%.

Now, my questions are -
1. Should I roll escrow into closing costs to see if that will increase the credit further?
2. Can I see impact of doing this without locking the rate on their site?
3. If I escrow now, can I have it removed later (just before closing or a few months after closing)?
4. Also, how will I justify going from 30-yr/2.5% to 30 yr/2.75% (same term, higher rate)?
5. The new LE shows the following for H. Does this mean that I will be paid AmEx credit outside of closing?
H. Other $0
AMEX Credit, Paid by Better POC ($2,000) $0
You were always going to be paid by Amex out side of closing. It's a statement credit. You can request AmEx send you a check for negative CC balance. Re: #4, Maybe do a 25 year term if you don't mind the higher payment?
Cycle
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cycle »

Miguelito wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:44 pm Should I wait until August to refi because of the fee that is going away or is that being factored in now on new quotes?
I asked better about this. Starting in Mid July, no loan quotes included the .5% Adverse Refinance Market fee. They are working through peoples applications that locked before then to remove the fee. The quote you receive today includes the "discount" for this fee removal.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
Cycle
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cycle »

I just locked with Better. 80% LTV. $360k loan, $450k property value. Original loan was also 15yr fixed, 2.125%. 179 payments left.

I asked them to match my BankRate screenshots, and they did. Then i asked them to add the AMEX thing, and all of a sudden way more credits showed up. Anyways, these were my two options:
  • 1.75% with $2650 credits + $2000 AMEX. $61 monthly payment savings
  • 2.0% with $4,980 credits + $2000 AMEX. $21 monthly payment savings
I think my costs should be about $2000, ignoring prepaids and escrow. Option 2 should net me about $5k, unless i'm missing something.

I'm choosing the 2.0% since we may only be in this house another few years, and I also want to churn this refi again if there's another Amex credit offer. Amex has locked me out of promos, like signup bonuses and welcome APR due to churning, i'm hoping this isn't part of that. I had to order a new Amex Blue Cash rewards card specifically for this refi, and it is in the mail.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
Goal33
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

Who has Better been selling the mortgages to lately?
nerdymarketer
Posts: 197
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:18 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nerdymarketer »

Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:43 pm I just locked with Better. 80% LTV. $360k loan, $450k property value. Original loan was also 15yr fixed, 2.125%. 179 payments left.

I asked them to match my BankRate screenshots, and they did. Then i asked them to add the AMEX thing, and all of a sudden way more credits showed up. Anyways, these were my two options:
  • 1.75% with $2650 credits + $2000 AMEX. $61 monthly payment savings
  • 2.0% with $4,980 credits + $2000 AMEX. $21 monthly payment savings
Wow, great rates! I just locked on a $480K loan with $800K property value, and the best deal I ever saw was on Brankrate this morning where a 1.75% non-cashout was still costing me $72 in points.

So you're offered an additional $2650 credits, on a smaller loan, with a slightly higher LTV... crazy!

That said, they did offer me a 2.0% with $4600 credits (not to mention the $2K Amex bonus) for a cash-out loan up to the conforming loan limit. So I took that.

Weird that they offered you such a significantly better 1.75% deal but a slightly worse 2% deal then they were offering me (relatively, since cashouts typically cost an eighth to a quarter point worse).

It'll be interesting to see what the next 6 months bring... my bet is there will be higher rates and more inflation (which is why I was happy to take all that they were willing to lend me for a fixed-rate non-recourse loan), but I'd also be happy if those stay low so I can refinance down to 1.75%... we'll see.
dhc
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by dhc »

Interfirst quoted me 2.615% for a $165,000 ~40% LTV 30 year fixed with only fees from C, E, and F. Better, interestingly, was unwilling to match it, despite advertising the 2.625% with similar fees on Bankrate. Thanks for the datapoints about them matching Bankrate screenshots; i've sent mine over in hopes they'll match that and I can then layer the Amex offer on top.

And here I thought I'd gotten a great deal a few years back at 3.25%!
KNMLHD
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:57 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by KNMLHD »

tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:22 pm
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:53 pm Anyone here with experience using Sage Mortgage? They seem to have fairly aggressive pricing - almost to the point where I wonder if Better would even be willing to match a LE.
Where are you seeing thier pricing? I never heard of them, don't see any rates on their site.
Looks like they operate out of a limited number of states... ~21 https://sagemortgage.com/licenses

They are popping up on Bankrate for me.

Edit:
giddyup969 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:45 pm
tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:22 pm
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:53 pm Anyone here with experience using Sage Mortgage? They seem to have fairly aggressive pricing - almost to the point where I wonder if Better would even be willing to match a LE.
Where are you seeing thier pricing? I never heard of them, don't see any rates on their site.

I contacted them view bankrate because the rates were really low. Come to find out the origination fee is $3500. No, thank you :)
Ahh ok... I assume that's in addition to their listed fees then. Correct?
neo_ny
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:59 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by neo_ny »

Anyone used Better for new purchase rather than refi? I see a lot of data points for refi but not so much for purchases unless I missed those posts. We are buying soon (no choice since we are moving) and wondering if they are good for new purchases as well?
Krautz
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:12 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Krautz »

KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:52 pm
newbie20 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:53 pm
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:47 pm
Until the HELOC is closed, the HELOC lender remains on the title (which necessitates the need for a subordination). The only way to remove them is to fully close the HELOC, which will then kick off a letter to the title company indicating removal of the lender from your title. Without this, the lender, regardless of the balance, remains on the title, forcing a subordination.

If you do close it out, have the lender issue you a letter indicating that it is closed, balance is 0, etc. That letter "should" be good enough to get things "unstuck" from a subordination process. It may take a few days to a couple weeks to get the HELOC lender off the title itself.
Your explanation makes sense for the title process but what I don't understand is why does/should it prevent Better from offering price matching on their Bankrate offers? I am also curious to see if others in forum have experienced this situation.
Some lenders will not mess around with subordinations... period. LenderFi is another one that comes to mind. The reason being the subordination process can take several weeks to move the HELOC lender behind the new mortgage holder (your refi lender will want to be first in line)... this most likely will take longer a 30 day lock will cover. Have heard of some horror stories of subordinations taking several months.

Better's rates on Bankrate assume (1) No Subordinations, (2) 30 day lock, and (3) you will be escrowing.
Just wanted to add our experience with subordination. We had a 0 balance on a HELOC with our credit union when applying for refi w/ Better. The subordination process with credit union took less than 7 business days and Better paid the credit union's $150 processing fee. We just closed yesterday, approximately 3 wks from applying.
Qw1221wq
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Qw1221wq »

Krautz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:39 am
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:52 pm
newbie20 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:53 pm
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:47 pm
Until the HELOC is closed, the HELOC lender remains on the title (which necessitates the need for a subordination). The only way to remove them is to fully close the HELOC, which will then kick off a letter to the title company indicating removal of the lender from your title. Without this, the lender, regardless of the balance, remains on the title, forcing a subordination.

If you do close it out, have the lender issue you a letter indicating that it is closed, balance is 0, etc. That letter "should" be good enough to get things "unstuck" from a subordination process. It may take a few days to a couple weeks to get the HELOC lender off the title itself.
Your explanation makes sense for the title process but what I don't understand is why does/should it prevent Better from offering price matching on their Bankrate offers? I am also curious to see if others in forum have experienced this situation.
Some lenders will not mess around with subordinations... period. LenderFi is another one that comes to mind. The reason being the subordination process can take several weeks to move the HELOC lender behind the new mortgage holder (your refi lender will want to be first in line)... this most likely will take longer a 30 day lock will cover. Have heard of some horror stories of subordinations taking several months.

Better's rates on Bankrate assume (1) No Subordinations, (2) 30 day lock, and (3) you will be escrowing.
Just wanted to add our experience with subordination. We had a 0 balance on a HELOC with our credit union when applying for refi w/ Better. The subordination process with credit union took less than 7 business days and Better paid the credit union's $150 processing fee. We just closed yesterday, approximately 3 wks from applying.
Did you have to do an appraisal? Did you pay an appraisal fee? Is the value of your home over a million?
Krautz
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:12 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Krautz »

Qw1221wq wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:48 am
Krautz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:39 am
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:52 pm
newbie20 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:53 pm
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:47 pm
Until the HELOC is closed, the HELOC lender remains on the title (which necessitates the need for a subordination). The only way to remove them is to fully close the HELOC, which will then kick off a letter to the title company indicating removal of the lender from your title. Without this, the lender, regardless of the balance, remains on the title, forcing a subordination.

If you do close it out, have the lender issue you a letter indicating that it is closed, balance is 0, etc. That letter "should" be good enough to get things "unstuck" from a subordination process. It may take a few days to a couple weeks to get the HELOC lender off the title itself.
Your explanation makes sense for the title process but what I don't understand is why does/should it prevent Better from offering price matching on their Bankrate offers? I am also curious to see if others in forum have experienced this situation.
Some lenders will not mess around with subordinations... period. LenderFi is another one that comes to mind. The reason being the subordination process can take several weeks to move the HELOC lender behind the new mortgage holder (your refi lender will want to be first in line)... this most likely will take longer a 30 day lock will cover. Have heard of some horror stories of subordinations taking several months.

Better's rates on Bankrate assume (1) No Subordinations, (2) 30 day lock, and (3) you will be escrowing.
Just wanted to add our experience with subordination. We had a 0 balance on a HELOC with our credit union when applying for refi w/ Better. The subordination process with credit union took less than 7 business days and Better paid the credit union's $150 processing fee. We just closed yesterday, approximately 3 wks from applying.
Did you have to do an appraisal? Did you pay an appraisal fee? Is the value of your home over a million?
Appraisal was waived. House value 350k, loan amount was 124,500
Miguelito
Posts: 470
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:21 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Miguelito »

Please delete.
Last edited by Miguelito on Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cycle
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cycle »

nerdymarketer wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:07 am
Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:43 pm I just locked with Better. 80% LTV. $360k loan, $450k property value. Original loan was also 15yr fixed, 2.125%. 179 payments left.

I asked them to match my BankRate screenshots, and they did. Then i asked them to add the AMEX thing, and all of a sudden way more credits showed up. Anyways, these were my two options:
  • 1.75% with $2650 credits + $2000 AMEX. $61 monthly payment savings
  • 2.0% with $4,980 credits + $2000 AMEX. $21 monthly payment savings
Wow, great rates! I just locked on a $480K loan with $800K property value, and the best deal I ever saw was on Brankrate this morning where a 1.75% non-cashout was still costing me $72 in points.

So you're offered an additional $2650 credits, on a smaller loan, with a slightly higher LTV... crazy!

That said, they did offer me a 2.0% with $4600 credits (not to mention the $2K Amex bonus) for a cash-out loan up to the conforming loan limit. So I took that.

Weird that they offered you such a significantly better 1.75% deal but a slightly worse 2% deal then they were offering me (relatively, since cashouts typically cost an eighth to a quarter point worse).

It'll be interesting to see what the next 6 months bring... my bet is there will be higher rates and more inflation (which is why I was happy to take all that they were willing to lend me for a fixed-rate non-recourse loan), but I'd also be happy if those stay low so I can refinance down to 1.75%... we'll see.
Prior to asking for the amex thing, the 1.75% rate was asking for $240 in points, and 2% was $4400 in credits. I thought the big $2800 swing on the 1.75 was a mistake, but he told me they were making it a no cost 1.75 rate.

Thing is I don't think it's super likely we will be in this house in 5 years. $2300 credit diff /$41 payment diff = 4.6 years. So taking the cash up front. And maybe I'll do this again in 6 months :twisted:
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
Qw1221wq
Posts: 36
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Qw1221wq »

Krautz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:07 am
Qw1221wq wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:48 am
Krautz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:39 am
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:52 pm
newbie20 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:53 pm

Your explanation makes sense for the title process but what I don't understand is why does/should it prevent Better from offering price matching on their Bankrate offers? I am also curious to see if others in forum have experienced this situation.
Some lenders will not mess around with subordinations... period. LenderFi is another one that comes to mind. The reason being the subordination process can take several weeks to move the HELOC lender behind the new mortgage holder (your refi lender will want to be first in line)... this most likely will take longer a 30 day lock will cover. Have heard of some horror stories of subordinations taking several months.

Better's rates on Bankrate assume (1) No Subordinations, (2) 30 day lock, and (3) you will be escrowing.
Just wanted to add our experience with subordination. We had a 0 balance on a HELOC with our credit union when applying for refi w/ Better. The subordination process with credit union took less than 7 business days and Better paid the credit union's $150 processing fee. We just closed yesterday, approximately 3 wks from applying.
Did you have to do an appraisal? Did you pay an appraisal fee? Is the value of your home over a million?
Appraisal was waived. House value 350k, loan amount was 124,500
Jealous of these sub mil homes with appraisal waivers.
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

Qw1221wq wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:44 am
Krautz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:07 am
Qw1221wq wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:48 am
Krautz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:39 am
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:52 pm

Some lenders will not mess around with subordinations... period. LenderFi is another one that comes to mind. The reason being the subordination process can take several weeks to move the HELOC lender behind the new mortgage holder (your refi lender will want to be first in line)... this most likely will take longer a 30 day lock will cover. Have heard of some horror stories of subordinations taking several months.

Better's rates on Bankrate assume (1) No Subordinations, (2) 30 day lock, and (3) you will be escrowing.
Just wanted to add our experience with subordination. We had a 0 balance on a HELOC with our credit union when applying for refi w/ Better. The subordination process with credit union took less than 7 business days and Better paid the credit union's $150 processing fee. We just closed yesterday, approximately 3 wks from applying.
Did you have to do an appraisal? Did you pay an appraisal fee? Is the value of your home over a million?
Appraisal was waived. House value 350k, loan amount was 124,500
Jealous of these sub mil homes with appraisal waivers.
lol - “I wish I had less money”

I put my value at 999k for the waiver even though my house is easily more than 1m. Didn’t impact pricing.
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truenyer
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Post by truenyer »

Goal33 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:07 am lol - “I wish I had less money”
"I wish I had less paper money" FIFY :D
ymmt
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ymmt »

Goal33 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:07 am
Qw1221wq wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:44 am
Krautz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:07 am
Qw1221wq wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:48 am
Krautz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:39 am

Just wanted to add our experience with subordination. We had a 0 balance on a HELOC with our credit union when applying for refi w/ Better. The subordination process with credit union took less than 7 business days and Better paid the credit union's $150 processing fee. We just closed yesterday, approximately 3 wks from applying.
Did you have to do an appraisal? Did you pay an appraisal fee? Is the value of your home over a million?
Appraisal was waived. House value 350k, loan amount was 124,500
Jealous of these sub mil homes with appraisal waivers.
lol - “I wish I had less money”

I put my value at 999k for the waiver even though my house is easily more than 1m. Didn’t impact pricing.
As much as I would like to save a little money, there's no way I can realistically put that in given we paid a modest amount more for our home and it's only appreciated since then. $500 isn't worth the potential blowback.
rage_phish
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rage_phish »

Do $1Mil+ homes never get the appraisal waived?
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

ymmt wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:25 am
Goal33 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:07 am
Qw1221wq wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:44 am
Krautz wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:07 am
Qw1221wq wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:48 am

Did you have to do an appraisal? Did you pay an appraisal fee? Is the value of your home over a million?
Appraisal was waived. House value 350k, loan amount was 124,500
Jealous of these sub mil homes with appraisal waivers.
lol - “I wish I had less money”

I put my value at 999k for the waiver even though my house is easily more than 1m. Didn’t impact pricing.
As much as I would like to save a little money, there's no way I can realistically put that in given we paid a modest amount more for our home and it's only appreciated since then. $500 isn't worth the potential blowback.
Not sure what potential blowback you’re referring to, unless you mean worse pricing. If that’s the case, just check if it actually does. Countless examples of people doing under 1m value for the waiver. Reduces hassle, timeline, and saves money.
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

rage_phish wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:29 am Do $1Mil+ homes never get the appraisal waived?
Correct.
Money_Badger
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Money_Badger »

Thanks to everyone on this thread for the advice. Super happy with the deal I'm getting at Better. Will shave 1.25% off my rate, 4 years off my loan, and $40 off my monthly payment. Cash at closing plus escrow refund from the old mortgage and the Amex credit basically means it's no cost.
rage_phish
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rage_phish »

Goal33 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:32 am
rage_phish wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:29 am Do $1Mil+ homes never get the appraisal waived?
Correct.
:(

That makes it a bit harder to get a no cost refi then I take it?
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

rage_phish wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:02 am
Goal33 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:32 am
rage_phish wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:29 am Do $1Mil+ homes never get the appraisal waived?
Correct.
:(

That makes it a bit harder to get a no cost refi then I take it?
Not really. Appraislas are like $500, most people are lowering their rate and getting huge lender credit.
Miguelito
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Miguelito »

Goal33 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:32 am
rage_phish wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:29 am Do $1Mil+ homes never get the appraisal waived?
Correct.
What if you can claim your property is <$1M (even if it is not) but you are still well under 50% LTV?
bestisfree
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

Special thanks to
@presto987
@MrJedi
@BrandonBogle

With a little bit of patience, locked with Better today:
Loan amt = $214k
15 years
2.000%
points = -$2,739 (credit)
B+C+E = $1,054
AmEx promo = -$2,000
Net cost = -$3,685 (profit)

which is a slight improvement from last Friday's
15 years
2.000%
points = -$1928 (credit)
B+C+E = $1,098
AmEx promo = -$2,000
Net cost = -$2,830 (profit)

There is always a chance for a big dip like last Tuesday and I am curious what FOMC will announce tomorrow... but my locked in rate is a good one, right? :shock:
Last edited by bestisfree on Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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truenyer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

Goal33 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:32 am
rage_phish wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:29 am Do $1Mil+ homes never get the appraisal waived?
Correct.
Not really... My last two refinances in the last 12 months got appraisal waived when the LO put my address in the "system." I listed value as $1.4M, but when they ran the address it came back as $999,999 so appraisal was waived. I have no idea how they did this.
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

Miguelito wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:32 am
Goal33 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:32 am
rage_phish wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:29 am Do $1Mil+ homes never get the appraisal waived?
Correct.
What if you can claim your property is <$1M (even if it is not) but you are still well under 50% LTV?
This is completely fine - you can list your property value as $999k to try for an appraisal waiver.

The only potential downside of listing your property value too low is that it increases your LTV. If your LTV is low to begin with, then there will likely be no pricing impact. But if this boosts your LTV beyond a key threshold, then it can negatively impact your pricing. In that case, the question is how this pricing impact compares to the cost and hassle of the appraisal.

To reiterate a point I made earlier, there is nothing sketchy about listing your property value "too low". What is sketchy is if you try to list it too high.
Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

I have two offers on the table for asset-based loans, I cannot currently qualify for traditional income-based loan.

Chase is offering a 30 year at 2.375 with moving over 1 million of assets and 50,000 of bank cash, costs are just under $3000.

Rocket mortgage is offering a 15 year at 1.875, costs are over $3000 but there is a Amex Promo $2000 credit program there as well.

I am tempted by the low rate/low monthly payment on the Chase 30 year but coming up with the $50,000 in bank cash would require selling assets with capital gains.

Planning to ask Rocket if If they can reduce costs or add lender credits at a 2% loan to make it more compelling.

Thoughts?
Tomorrow never knows.
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anon_investor
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Post by anon_investor »

What kind of 30 year fixed rates for no cost are people seeing?
All_About_Benjis
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by All_About_Benjis »

anon_investor wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:54 am What kind of 30 year fixed rates for no cost are people seeing?
I locked yesterday at 2.625% with enough lender credits to net me $1200 or so after closing (+ $2000 AMEX credit). I'm currently about 1 year into a 30-yr at 2.875%.

Lenderfi also offered 2.625% at no cost, but I would have netted only $400 or so on that offer.
bws
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

Average Investor wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:51 am I have two offers on the table for asset-based loans, I cannot currently qualify for traditional income-based loan.

Chase is offering a 30 year at 2.375 with moving over 1 million of assets and 50,000 of bank cash, costs are just under $3000.

Rocket mortgage is offering a 15 year at 1.875, costs are over $3000 but there is a Amex Promo $2000 credit program there as well.

I am tempted by the low rate/low monthly payment on the Chase 30 year but coming up with the $50,000 in bank cash would require selling assets with capital gains.

Planning to ask Rocket if If they can reduce costs or add lender credits at a 2% loan to make it more compelling.

Thoughts?
Can you try Better or LenderFi in your state?
Average Investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

bws wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:04 am
Average Investor wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:51 am I have two offers on the table for asset-based loans, I cannot currently qualify for traditional income-based loan.

Chase is offering a 30 year at 2.375 with moving over 1 million of assets and 50,000 of bank cash, costs are just under $3000.

Rocket mortgage is offering a 15 year at 1.875, costs are over $3000 but there is a Amex Promo $2000 credit program there as well.

I am tempted by the low rate/low monthly payment on the Chase 30 year but coming up with the $50,000 in bank cash would require selling assets with capital gains.

Planning to ask Rocket if If they can reduce costs or add lender credits at a 2% loan to make it more compelling.

Thoughts?
Can you try Better or LenderFi in your state?
They do not offer asset-based loans. Thanks.
Tomorrow never knows.
wxturtle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wxturtle »

This thread is great, particularly for someone who has never Refi'ed and only has a mortgage with a B&M local.

I currently have a LE from Better where A+B+C+E = $3028 (not including AMEX credit).

I am seeing DPs in this thread in the $1k-1.5k ballpark.

Is there any rhyme or reason why my A+B+C+E is higher than others with Better? Is it a state-by-state thing? Any strategies for lowering it independent of rate/points calculus?

I can probably get a LE with lower A+B+C+E but with higher points for the same rate -- so the A+B+C+E with lender X is better but when factoring in the APR it's a wash...
Xrayman69
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Xrayman69 »

Does Better operate and available for the state of Washington??? I’m seeing 15 years for 1.75% with zero upfront costs!!
Miguelito
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Miguelito »

presto987 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:38 amThis is completely fine - you can list your property value as $999k to try for an appraisal waiver.

The only potential downside of listing your property value too low is that it increases your LTV. If your LTV is low to begin with, then there will likely be no pricing impact. But if this boosts your LTV beyond a key threshold, then it can negatively impact your pricing. In that case, the question is how this pricing impact compares to the cost and hassle of the appraisal.

To reiterate a point I made earlier, there is nothing sketchy about listing your property value "too low". What is sketchy is if you try to list it too high.
Thanks! That's what I figured.
rage_phish
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rage_phish »

Well, no appraisal waiver :(

Looking at no cost options of 2.75% on a $622k (44% LTV), 30 year loan. This is through loan depot
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

rage_phish wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:27 am Well, no appraisal waiver :(

Looking at no cost options of 2.75% on a $622k (44% LTV), 30 year loan. This is through loan depot
If you haven't already, definitely shop around. When I did my last refi in July, Loan Depot had the worst rate out of Better and LenderFi.
livelifealittle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by livelifealittle »

MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:19 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:57 pm
MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:04 pm If you are gonna keep your current house as a rental or second home, now is the time to refi for a lower rate. Once it is no longer your primary residence the rates are significantly higher.

If you are gonna sell it, then maybe refi is too much work for too little gain.

On the mortgage app they do ask if you are doing any other refi. Maybe drop the loan app for the new built and restart after you are done with current home refi.
We'll keep the current house. What does dropping the loan app mean?
We submitted the app several months ago but since it is being built, nothing is going on with that app until at least November. Will the lender for the current house refi be able to find out about the mortgage app for the new build?
If credit score has not been pulled then they have no idea. But if there is a pull on your credit report they may ask. If it was me, I’d probably go ahead and refi. If they ask then say you were shopping for a mortgage (refi :wink: )
I did some googling and found someone said that when the new purchase loan app is submitted, it might get flagged since there is a refi for another primary in less than 1 year. Do you know if this is true? I don't think we'll have any issue with the refi lender but I'm a little concerned about not being able to close the new home.
Last edited by livelifealittle on Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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