Refinance Mega Thread

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tj
Posts: 9368
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

wxturtle wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:15 am This thread is great, particularly for someone who has never Refi'ed and only has a mortgage with a B&M local.

I currently have a LE from Better where A+B+C+E = $3028 (not including AMEX credit).

I am seeing DPs in this thread in the $1k-1.5k ballpark.

Is there any rhyme or reason why my A+B+C+E is higher than others with Better? Is it a state-by-state thing? Any strategies for lowering it independent of rate/points calculus?

I can probably get a LE with lower A+B+C+E but with higher points for the same rate -- so the A+B+C+E with lender X is better but when factoring in the APR it's a wash...
Did you play the Bankrate game? if not, read the last few pages of this thread.
wxturtle
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wxturtle »

tj wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:59 am
wxturtle wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:15 am This thread is great, particularly for someone who has never Refi'ed and only has a mortgage with a B&M local.

I currently have a LE from Better where A+B+C+E = $3028 (not including AMEX credit).

I am seeing DPs in this thread in the $1k-1.5k ballpark.

Is there any rhyme or reason why my A+B+C+E is higher than others with Better? Is it a state-by-state thing? Any strategies for lowering it independent of rate/points calculus?

I can probably get a LE with lower A+B+C+E but with higher points for the same rate -- so the A+B+C+E with lender X is better but when factoring in the APR it's a wash...
Did you play the Bankrate game? if not, read the last few pages of this thread.
Yeah, I did send a Bankrate screencap and they adjusted the corresponding points for each rate (which got me +0.125 improvement across the board). But this didn't touch the A+B+C+E on the LE.

Actually, now that I look at it -- the lender's title fee is scaled with the loan amount in PA, so maybe that's the reason... seems like that probably varies a lot state-to-state.
DesertInvestor
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:04 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DesertInvestor »

ymmt wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 pm Personally am fine with what I locked in earlier; don't want to get too greedy.

Printing 1.75% for 15yrs, and they're paying me to do it... unbelievable times we live in.

I normally pay down extra principal every month towards my mortgage to work down the balance. I don't think I can justify it with such a low cost of financing.
New to this thread? What lender is 1.75% for 15 years?? I have contacted Better and BOA, BOA dramatically lower cost to refinance thusfar. 2.1% for 15 year and 2.6% for 30. Any lender the BH prefer ?
bws
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

DesertInvestor wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:47 pm
ymmt wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 pm Personally am fine with what I locked in earlier; don't want to get too greedy.

Printing 1.75% for 15yrs, and they're paying me to do it... unbelievable times we live in.

I normally pay down extra principal every month towards my mortgage to work down the balance. I don't think I can justify it with such a low cost of financing.
New to this thread? What lender is 1.75% for 15 years?? I have contacted Better and BOA, BOA dramatically lower cost to refinance thusfar. 2.1% for 15 year and 2.6% for 30. Any lender the BH prefer ?
Better.com and LenderFi are two of the top ones.
Run your info and Bankrate.com and ask Better to match what they are advertising there. In most cases its better than what you're originally shown.

Read more of this topic about having lenders match each other and the $2k credit from Amex when using Better.
MrJedi
Posts: 3540
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

DesertInvestor wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:47 pm
ymmt wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 pm Personally am fine with what I locked in earlier; don't want to get too greedy.

Printing 1.75% for 15yrs, and they're paying me to do it... unbelievable times we live in.

I normally pay down extra principal every month towards my mortgage to work down the balance. I don't think I can justify it with such a low cost of financing.
New to this thread? What lender is 1.75% for 15 years?? I have contacted Better and BOA, BOA dramatically lower cost to refinance thusfar. 2.1% for 15 year and 2.6% for 30. Any lender the BH prefer ?
Common strategy here has been to go with Better due to $2000 ($6000 for jumbo loan) credit for Amex cardholders. The trick is that Better offers garbage upfront and you have to haggle them down. You can go to bankrate and screenshot the Better offers there to get one of those rates. Or you can get a Loan Estimate from places like LenderFi, Loan Cabin, Loan Depot, etc. (these places tend to give decent estimates to begin with without the haggle game) and give it to Better to compete/match. Then you stack the Amex deal on top for the icing on the cake. You can keep passing estimates back and forth to try and keep improving, but those few steps will get you most of the way.
MiddleOfTheRoad
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:19 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MiddleOfTheRoad »

livelifealittle wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:45 am
MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:19 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:57 pm
MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:04 pm If you are gonna keep your current house as a rental or second home, now is the time to refi for a lower rate. Once it is no longer your primary residence the rates are significantly higher.

If you are gonna sell it, then maybe refi is too much work for too little gain.

On the mortgage app they do ask if you are doing any other refi. Maybe drop the loan app for the new built and restart after you are done with current home refi.
We'll keep the current house. What does dropping the loan app mean?
We submitted the app several months ago but since it is being built, nothing is going on with that app until at least November. Will the lender for the current house refi be able to find out about the mortgage app for the new build?
If credit score has not been pulled then they have no idea. But if there is a pull on your credit report they may ask. If it was me, I’d probably go ahead and refi. If they ask then say you were shopping for a mortgage (refi :wink: )
I did some googling and found someone said that when the new purchase loan app is submitted, it might get flagged since there is a refi for another primary in less than 1 year. Do you know if this is true? I don't think we'll have any issue with the refi lender but I'm a little concerned about not being able to close the new home.
From my experience, any hard credit pull will be asked about, i.e. “flagged”. You just have to clarify or confirm it. As long as your score is good and your income can support the debt then no problem. Just don’t start any applications for any kind of credit until a loan is closed and you will be fine. In addition, we have a checking account (our emergency funds) that has minimal activities and that’s the only one that I turn in for the refi so they don’t ask too many questions about random deposits or line items. :P
For example in my case, I refi 6 mos earlier, and after that got a new credit card and a 0% car loan. I was asked about all those credit pull and had to confirm it on my current refi. That’s it. My new mortgage with Better is funding tomorrow!
Average Investor
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:27 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Average Investor »

I locked my asset-based refi with Rocket Mortgage today, 1.875% with $3129 in closing costs.

They have a Amex promo like Better, so $1129 net closing costs if that goes according to plan.

If I choose 1.99% instead there is a $1400 lender credit ($271 net cash to me at close).

What would Bogleheads choose?
Tomorrow never knows.
Goal33
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

Average Investor wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:52 pm I locked my asset-based refi with Rocket Mortgage today, 1.875% with $3129 in closing costs.

They have a Amex promo like Better, so $1129 net closing costs if that goes according to plan.

If I choose 1.99% instead there is a $1400 lender credit ($271 net cash to me at close).

What would Bogleheads choose?
I would prefer the 1.99%
presto987
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

Average Investor wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:52 pm I locked my asset-based refi with Rocket Mortgage today, 1.875% with $3129 in closing costs.

They have a Amex promo like Better, so $1129 net closing costs if that goes according to plan.

If I choose 1.99% instead there is a $1400 lender credit ($271 net cash to me at close).

What would Bogleheads choose?
1.99%, or 2.125% if they let you :)
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

Better mortgage's default title service company is Title365 in my state.

I've seen several posts about people having good experience with Radian Title Services.

However, their old url (https://www.radiantitledirect.com/) seem to get directed to another affiliated company called titlegenius by radian that appears to be an insurance company.

Has anyone able to get a quote from Radian Title Services directly recently? How do you obtain a quote from them?

TIA
tj
Posts: 9368
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

bestisfree wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:08 pm Better mortgage's default title service company is Title365 in my state.

I've seen several posts about people having good experience with Radian Title Services.

However, their old url (https://www.radiantitledirect.com/) seem to get directed to another affiliated company called titlegenius by radian that appears to be an insurance company.

Has anyone able to get a quote from Radian Title Services directly recently? How do you obtain a quote from them?

TIA
Contact them at clientrelations@radian.com. Give them your address, loan amount, and lender name. Then they will send a quote.
erdo
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 7:31 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by erdo »

I just wanted to get everyone’s thoughts. I refinanced with better back in January (15 year, 2%) and got a significant credit back that went towards my property taxes at closing. I decided to go to bankrate today for a quote and got offered a 1.75% through Better but with significant closing costs of around $10k due to points, title costs etc. I could shop around to try to get $0 closing costs, thought it may be worth it especially with the AmEx offer. Just wondering if people are seeing 15 year/1.75% with no closing costs.

Home value: $815,000
Loan Amount: $485,000
Credit score: 800+
Kyrak
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:29 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Kyrak »

Need some help figuring out which offer to have Better match with an eye to getting a big credit offer / best rate table. Thanks in advance, 460K condo PURCHASE, 368K Mortgage (80%), 800+ credit scores

Better Site initial rate table
15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) $2326/mo
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) $2347/mo
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) $2368/mo

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) $1454/mo
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) $1478/
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) $1502

BankRate (Better)
15 Year
1.75% 0.325 points (1196) $2326/mo
1.875% 0 points (0) $2347/mo

30 Year
2.375% 1.715 points (6311) $1430/mo
2.625% 0.294 points (1082) $1478/mo
2.750% 0 points (0) $1502/mo

AIMLoan.com
15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT $2346/mo

Would it be better to just have better match themselves at Bankrate? If so, which one to match? Or would having them match AIMLoan actually be better in this case or will it be harder to get approval?

Thanks in advance!
Laddu99
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun May 30, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Laddu99 »

neo_ny wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:49 am Anyone used Better for new purchase rather than refi? I see a lot of data points for refi but not so much for purchases unless I missed those posts. We are buying soon (no choice since we are moving) and wondering if they are good for new purchases as well?
They matched the bankrate, but my move in date moved and I was hesitant to lock the rate. Now they have stopped responding. Will kindle them only when I have a firm date from the builder.
MrJedi
Posts: 3540
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

Kyrak wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:45 pm Need some help figuring out which offer to have Better match with an eye to getting a big credit offer / best rate table. Thanks in advance, 460K condo PURCHASE, 368K Mortgage (80%), 800+ credit scores

Better Site initial rate table
15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) $2326/mo
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) $2347/mo
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) $2368/mo

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) $1454/mo
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) $1478/
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) $1502

BankRate (Better)
15 Year
1.75% 0.325 points (1196) $2326/mo
1.875% 0 points (0) $2347/mo

30 Year
2.375% 1.715 points (6311) $1430/mo
2.625% 0.294 points (1082) $1478/mo
2.750% 0 points (0) $1502/mo

AIMLoan.com
15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT $2346/mo

Would it be better to just have better match themselves at Bankrate? If so, which one to match? Or would having them match AIMLoan actually be better in this case or will it be harder to get approval?

Thanks in advance!
Aimloan looks best to me. For matching other lenders you need an actual Loan Estimate and not just a screenshot.
juice421
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:11 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by juice421 »

tj wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:23 pm
bestisfree wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:08 pm Better mortgage's default title service company is Title365 in my state.

I've seen several posts about people having good experience with Radian Title Services.

However, their old url (https://www.radiantitledirect.com/) seem to get directed to another affiliated company called titlegenius by radian that appears to be an insurance company.

Has anyone able to get a quote from Radian Title Services directly recently? How do you obtain a quote from them?

TIA
Contact them at clientrelations@radian.com. Give them your address, loan amount, and lender name. Then they will send a quote.
I know there was talk about Better.com no longer allowing Radian for titles services, but I wanted to report that's not my experience. I just got word Better.com ordered my title from Radian. Also, there was talk about Radian increasing their fees. At least for my state of PA, Radian title fees are exactly the same as when I last refi'd this past March and continue to be much lower (1k) than other title servicers.

By the way, I locked on Monday at 2.175 on a 15yr w/ $4396 credit + 2k Amex = $4500 profit
Looking to refi again soon after funding, assuming market conditions. Will be interesting to see how bond market responds to FOMC meeting today.
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:31 am
Kyrak wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:45 pm Need some help figuring out which offer to have Better match with an eye to getting a big credit offer / best rate table. Thanks in advance, 460K condo PURCHASE, 368K Mortgage (80%), 800+ credit scores

Better Site initial rate table
15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) $2326/mo
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) $2347/mo
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) $2368/mo

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) $1454/mo
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) $1478/
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) $1502

BankRate (Better)
15 Year
1.75% 0.325 points (1196) $2326/mo
1.875% 0 points (0) $2347/mo

30 Year
2.375% 1.715 points (6311) $1430/mo
2.625% 0.294 points (1082) $1478/mo
2.750% 0 points (0) $1502/mo

AIMLoan.com
15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT $2346/mo

Would it be better to just have better match themselves at Bankrate? If so, which one to match? Or would having them match AIMLoan actually be better in this case or will it be harder to get approval?

Thanks in advance!
Aimloan looks best to me. For matching other lenders you need an actual Loan Estimate and not just a screenshot.
CORRECTION: @tj pointed out a couple of pots down that matching 15 years, 1.75% would give you a better discount $1196-$6039=$-4843. Which would lead to Better loans being better options.

leaving the rest of the original post below in quote for historical reasons.
As other have mentioned, if you ask Better to match bankrate's advertised price of 30 year, 2.625%, ($1082), you should be able to get a discount of ($ 1082 - 4688) = $3606 applied across your Better system rate card. After which, you can probably get

15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) - 3606 = 2433
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) - 3606 = -7 (credit)
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) = -2366 (credit)

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) - 3606 = 3721
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) - 3606 = 1082
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) - 3606 = -1814 (credit)

This is probably why MrJedi indicated that AimLoan's 15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT is the best.

That said, Bankrate offers 30years, 20years, and 15 years fixed. So you should check, across all the different terms, which pair (Better system - Better@Bankrate) gives you the biggest differential, and ask to be match to that to optimize your discount.
Last edited by bestisfree on Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
tj
Posts: 9368
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

bestisfree wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:58 am
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:31 am
Kyrak wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:45 pm Need some help figuring out which offer to have Better match with an eye to getting a big credit offer / best rate table. Thanks in advance, 460K condo PURCHASE, 368K Mortgage (80%), 800+ credit scores

Better Site initial rate table
15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) $2326/mo
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) $2347/mo
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) $2368/mo

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) $1454/mo
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) $1478/
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) $1502

BankRate (Better)
15 Year
1.75% 0.325 points (1196) $2326/mo
1.875% 0 points (0) $2347/mo

30 Year
2.375% 1.715 points (6311) $1430/mo
2.625% 0.294 points (1082) $1478/mo
2.750% 0 points (0) $1502/mo

AIMLoan.com
15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT $2346/mo

Would it be better to just have better match themselves at Bankrate? If so, which one to match? Or would having them match AIMLoan actually be better in this case or will it be harder to get approval?

Thanks in advance!
Aimloan looks best to me. For matching other lenders you need an actual Loan Estimate and not just a screenshot.
As other have mentioned, if you ask Better to match bankrate's advertised price of 30 year, 2.625%, ($1082), you should be able to get a discount of ($ 1082 - 4688) = $3606 applied across your Better system rate card. After which, you can probably get

15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) - 3606 = 2433
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) - 3606 = -7 (credit)
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) = -2366 (credit)

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) - 3606 = 3721
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) - 3606 = 1082
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) - 3606 = -1814 (credit)

This is probably why MrJedi indicated that AimLoan's 15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT is the best.

That said, Bankrate offers 30years, 20years, and 15 years fixed. So you should check which pair (Better system - Better@Bankrate) gives you the biggest differential, and ask to be match to that to optimize your discount.
Wouldn't the 15 year 1.75% be better? 1139-6036 = 4897 Doesn't Aimloan have origination fees and such?
Cycle
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cycle »

DesertInvestor wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:47 pm
ymmt wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 pm Personally am fine with what I locked in earlier; don't want to get too greedy.

Printing 1.75% for 15yrs, and they're paying me to do it... unbelievable times we live in.

I normally pay down extra principal every month towards my mortgage to work down the balance. I don't think I can justify it with such a low cost of financing.
New to this thread? What lender is 1.75% for 15 years?? I have contacted Better and BOA, BOA dramatically lower cost to refinance thusfar. 2.1% for 15 year and 2.6% for 30. Any lender the BH prefer ?
Better offered me $2600 in credits plus 1.75% 15yr. I ended up doing $4985 in credits at 2%. Plus I get the $2k amex on top. Closing costs should be ~$2k ignoring prepaids.

I may refinance every 6 months. I think it's likely rates will stay this low for many years.
Last edited by Cycle on Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:08 am
bestisfree wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:58 am
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:31 am
Kyrak wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:45 pm Need some help figuring out which offer to have Better match with an eye to getting a big credit offer / best rate table. Thanks in advance, 460K condo PURCHASE, 368K Mortgage (80%), 800+ credit scores

Better Site initial rate table
15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) $2326/mo
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) $2347/mo
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) $2368/mo

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) $1454/mo
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) $1478/
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) $1502

BankRate (Better)
15 Year
1.75% 0.325 points (1196) $2326/mo
1.875% 0 points (0) $2347/mo

30 Year
2.375% 1.715 points (6311) $1430/mo
2.625% 0.294 points (1082) $1478/mo
2.750% 0 points (0) $1502/mo

AIMLoan.com
15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT $2346/mo

Would it be better to just have better match themselves at Bankrate? If so, which one to match? Or would having them match AIMLoan actually be better in this case or will it be harder to get approval?

Thanks in advance!
Aimloan looks best to me. For matching other lenders you need an actual Loan Estimate and not just a screenshot.
As other have mentioned, if you ask Better to match bankrate's advertised price of 30 year, 2.625%, ($1082), you should be able to get a discount of ($ 1082 - 4688) = $3606 applied across your Better system rate card. After which, you can probably get

15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) - 3606 = 2433
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) - 3606 = -7 (credit)
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) = -2366 (credit)

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) - 3606 = 3721
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) - 3606 = 1082
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) - 3606 = -1814 (credit)

This is probably why MrJedi indicated that AimLoan's 15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT is the best.

That said, Bankrate offers 30years, 20years, and 15 years fixed. So you should check which pair (Better system - Better@Bankrate) gives you the biggest differential, and ask to be match to that to optimize your discount.
Wouldn't the 15 year 1.75% be better? 1139-6036 = 4897 Doesn't Aimloan have origination fees and such?
I stand corrected! yes matching 15 years 1.75% would be better! Once that $4897 discount is applied across the rate table, then you can have your pick what works best for you. But I would still check across other terms to see if matching any of those would get you a bigger differential (i.e., discount).
pindevil
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:04 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pindevil »

Oops. DW forgot to pay her credit card bill :annoyed . We are supposed to close on a refinance with Better soon. Her credit score went from 801 to 686. Undoubtedly they will check our credit again.

Will this be a problem?
MrJedi
Posts: 3540
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:08 am
bestisfree wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:58 am
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:31 am
Kyrak wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:45 pm Need some help figuring out which offer to have Better match with an eye to getting a big credit offer / best rate table. Thanks in advance, 460K condo PURCHASE, 368K Mortgage (80%), 800+ credit scores

Better Site initial rate table
15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) $2326/mo
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) $2347/mo
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) $2368/mo

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) $1454/mo
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) $1478/
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) $1502

BankRate (Better)
15 Year
1.75% 0.325 points (1196) $2326/mo
1.875% 0 points (0) $2347/mo

30 Year
2.375% 1.715 points (6311) $1430/mo
2.625% 0.294 points (1082) $1478/mo
2.750% 0 points (0) $1502/mo

AIMLoan.com
15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT $2346/mo

Would it be better to just have better match themselves at Bankrate? If so, which one to match? Or would having them match AIMLoan actually be better in this case or will it be harder to get approval?

Thanks in advance!
Aimloan looks best to me. For matching other lenders you need an actual Loan Estimate and not just a screenshot.
As other have mentioned, if you ask Better to match bankrate's advertised price of 30 year, 2.625%, ($1082), you should be able to get a discount of ($ 1082 - 4688) = $3606 applied across your Better system rate card. After which, you can probably get

15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) - 3606 = 2433
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) - 3606 = -7 (credit)
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) = -2366 (credit)

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) - 3606 = 3721
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) - 3606 = 1082
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) - 3606 = -1814 (credit)

This is probably why MrJedi indicated that AimLoan's 15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT is the best.

That said, Bankrate offers 30years, 20years, and 15 years fixed. So you should check which pair (Better system - Better@Bankrate) gives you the biggest differential, and ask to be match to that to optimize your discount.
Wouldn't the 15 year 1.75% be better? 1139-6036 = 4897 Doesn't Aimloan have origination fees and such?
Good eye, yes I think that bankrate better 15 year 1.75% is best now that I'm looking closer.
Firemenot
Posts: 1497
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:48 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Firemenot »

Interactive Mortgage has a 1.5% no-cost, 15-year refi posted on their website. I’m doing a high-value conforming 30 year mortgage refi (almost jumbo) at 2.625%. And it’s no-cost at all as far as closing costs. I think the 1.5% rate tops out somewhere in the 500s.

EDIT — Sorry the 15-year rate above is not no cost.
Last edited by Firemenot on Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
Goal33
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

pindevil wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:24 am Oops. DW forgot to pay her credit card bill :annoyed . We are supposed to close on a refinance with Better soon. Her credit score went from 801 to 686. Undoubtedly they will check our credit again.

Will this be a problem?
This will be a problem and lead to a higher rate.

Try to get the credit card company to give a one time pass and remove it from your credit.
MrJedi
Posts: 3540
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

pindevil wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:24 am Oops. DW forgot to pay her credit card bill :annoyed . We are supposed to close on a refinance with Better soon. Her credit score went from 801 to 686. Undoubtedly they will check our credit again.

Will this be a problem?
How late? Less than 30 days late shouldn't show up on credit report. Since the score dropped, it seems it must be more than 30 days?
Goal33
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

Firemenot wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:54 am Interactive Mortgage has a 1.5% no-cost, 15-year refi posted on their website. I’m doing a high-value conforming 30 year mortgage refi (almost jumbo) at 2.625%. I think the 1.5% rate tops out somewhere in the 500s.
It’s not no cost. Its 1.915 apr. you have to pay points.
Firemenot
Posts: 1497
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:48 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Firemenot »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:57 am
Firemenot wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:54 am Interactive Mortgage has a 1.5% no-cost, 15-year refi posted on their website. I’m doing a high-value conforming 30 year mortgage refi (almost jumbo) at 2.625%. I think the 1.5% rate tops out somewhere in the 500s.
It’s not no cost. Its 1.915 apr. you have to pay points.
Sorry. They changed the way they posted then. Typically they post the no-cost rate on their site.
pindevil
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:04 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pindevil »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:54 am
pindevil wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:24 am Oops. DW forgot to pay her credit card bill :annoyed . We are supposed to close on a refinance with Better soon. Her credit score went from 801 to 686. Undoubtedly they will check our credit again.

Will this be a problem?
This will be a problem and lead to a higher rate.

Try to get the credit card company to give a one time pass and remove it from your credit.
Good idea. She's had the card for a decade and this is the first late payment so hopefully they can help us.

Alternatively, is it possible to have better take my wife off the loan application? I'm pretty sure I can qualify on my own.
livelifealittle
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:01 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by livelifealittle »

MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:43 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:45 am
MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:19 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:57 pm
MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:04 pm If you are gonna keep your current house as a rental or second home, now is the time to refi for a lower rate. Once it is no longer your primary residence the rates are significantly higher.

If you are gonna sell it, then maybe refi is too much work for too little gain.

On the mortgage app they do ask if you are doing any other refi. Maybe drop the loan app for the new built and restart after you are done with current home refi.
We'll keep the current house. What does dropping the loan app mean?
We submitted the app several months ago but since it is being built, nothing is going on with that app until at least November. Will the lender for the current house refi be able to find out about the mortgage app for the new build?
If credit score has not been pulled then they have no idea. But if there is a pull on your credit report they may ask. If it was me, I’d probably go ahead and refi. If they ask then say you were shopping for a mortgage (refi :wink: )
I did some googling and found someone said that when the new purchase loan app is submitted, it might get flagged since there is a refi for another primary in less than 1 year. Do you know if this is true? I don't think we'll have any issue with the refi lender but I'm a little concerned about not being able to close the new home.
From my experience, any hard credit pull will be asked about, i.e. “flagged”. You just have to clarify or confirm it. As long as your score is good and your income can support the debt then no problem. Just don’t start any applications for any kind of credit until a loan is closed and you will be fine. In addition, we have a checking account (our emergency funds) that has minimal activities and that’s the only one that I turn in for the refi so they don’t ask too many questions about random deposits or line items. :P
For example in my case, I refi 6 mos earlier, and after that got a new credit card and a 0% car loan. I was asked about all those credit pull and had to confirm it on my current refi. That’s it. My new mortgage with Better is funding tomorrow!
I think I might have shot myself in the foot since the new lender said we can only refinance as investment and the refi lender also said the same thing.
A broker disagreed with it and said since when the refi closes this is still our primary, it shouldn't be an issue. But I'm a little nervous about jeopardizing the new home loan if we go ahead. Maybe I should've said nothing and played dumb! :oops:
livelifealittle
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:01 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by livelifealittle »

pindevil wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:00 am
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:54 am
pindevil wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:24 am Oops. DW forgot to pay her credit card bill :annoyed . We are supposed to close on a refinance with Better soon. Her credit score went from 801 to 686. Undoubtedly they will check our credit again.

Will this be a problem?
This will be a problem and lead to a higher rate.

Try to get the credit card company to give a one time pass and remove it from your credit.
Good idea. She's had the card for a decade and this is the first late payment so hopefully they can help us.

Alternatively, is it possible to have better take my wife off the loan application? I'm pretty sure I can qualify on my own.
If you could qualify on your own, I would definitely do that so your wife's credit is free for other things (assuming she doesn't need to build her credit).
All_About_Benjis
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:28 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by All_About_Benjis »

tj wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:23 pm
bestisfree wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:08 pm Better mortgage's default title service company is Title365 in my state.

I've seen several posts about people having good experience with Radian Title Services.

However, their old url (https://www.radiantitledirect.com/) seem to get directed to another affiliated company called titlegenius by radian that appears to be an insurance company.

Has anyone able to get a quote from Radian Title Services directly recently? How do you obtain a quote from them?

TIA
Contact them at clientrelations@radian.com. Give them your address, loan amount, and lender name. Then they will send a quote.
Curious about this too. At what point can I shop for the title company? Better wants to charge us nearly $3k for the services we can shop for...seems like I can do better. We have a loan estimate now and are in the process of going through underwriting.
tj
Posts: 9368
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

All_About_Benjis wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:57 am
tj wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:23 pm
bestisfree wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:08 pm Better mortgage's default title service company is Title365 in my state.

I've seen several posts about people having good experience with Radian Title Services.

However, their old url (https://www.radiantitledirect.com/) seem to get directed to another affiliated company called titlegenius by radian that appears to be an insurance company.

Has anyone able to get a quote from Radian Title Services directly recently? How do you obtain a quote from them?

TIA
Contact them at clientrelations@radian.com. Give them your address, loan amount, and lender name. Then they will send a quote.
Curious about this too. At what point can I shop for the title company? Better wants to charge us nearly $3k for the services we can shop for...seems like I can do better. We have a loan estimate now and are in the process of going through underwriting.
I don't see why you wouldn't get those quotes ASAP after locking....
newbie20
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

bestisfree wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:58 am

As other have mentioned, if you ask Better to match bankrate's advertised price of 30 year, 2.625%, ($1082), you should be able to get a discount of ($ 1082 - 4688) = $3606 applied across your Better system rate card. After which, you can probably get

15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) - 3606 = 2433
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) - 3606 = -7 (credit)
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) = -2366 (credit)

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) - 3606 = 3721
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) - 3606 = 1082
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) - 3606 = -1814 (credit)

This is probably why MrJedi indicated that AimLoan's 15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT is the best.

That said, Bankrate offers 30years, 20years, and 15 years fixed. So you should check which pair (Better system - Better@Bankrate) gives you the biggest differential, and ask to be match to that to optimize your discount.
FWIW, you may not see a linear decrease in points (or increase in credits) across all rate and term tiers. In my case, I asked them to match the Bankrate offer that had the maximum difference (about $4,800) from their quote. They did that, but all remaining rates/terms showed varying differences (from $4,800 to as low as $2,261).

Just a DP for you to consider...
tj
Posts: 9368
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

newbie20 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:50 am
bestisfree wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:58 am

As other have mentioned, if you ask Better to match bankrate's advertised price of 30 year, 2.625%, ($1082), you should be able to get a discount of ($ 1082 - 4688) = $3606 applied across your Better system rate card. After which, you can probably get

15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) - 3606 = 2433
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) - 3606 = -7 (credit)
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) = -2366 (credit)

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) - 3606 = 3721
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) - 3606 = 1082
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) - 3606 = -1814 (credit)

This is probably why MrJedi indicated that AimLoan's 15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT is the best.

That said, Bankrate offers 30years, 20years, and 15 years fixed. So you should check which pair (Better system - Better@Bankrate) gives you the biggest differential, and ask to be match to that to optimize your discount.
FWIW, you may not see a linear decrease in points (or increase in credits) across all rate and term tiers. In my case, I asked them to match the Bankrate offer that had the maximum difference (about $4,800) from their quote. They did that, but all remaining rates/terms showed varying differences (from $4,800 to as low as $2,261).

Just a DP for you to consider...
So how did you determine the best one to have matched? Did you do a subsequent match?
newbie20
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:18 pm
newbie20 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:50 am

FWIW, you may not see a linear decrease in points (or increase in credits) across all rate and term tiers. In my case, I asked them to match the Bankrate offer that had the maximum difference (about $4,800) from their quote. They did that, but all remaining rates/terms showed varying differences (from $4,800 to as low as $2,261).

Just a DP for you to consider...
So how did you determine the best one to have matched? Did you do a subsequent match?
I took the advice from this board and asked them to match on the rate/term that offered the maximum difference from Bankrate offer. That's when I noticed that everything didn't increase (or decrease) linearly. I wish it did.

I haven't asked for a subsequent match nor have I pulled the trigger to lock it. I am still considering various alternatives.
Goal33
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:25 am
All_About_Benjis wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:57 am
tj wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:23 pm
bestisfree wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:08 pm Better mortgage's default title service company is Title365 in my state.

I've seen several posts about people having good experience with Radian Title Services.

However, their old url (https://www.radiantitledirect.com/) seem to get directed to another affiliated company called titlegenius by radian that appears to be an insurance company.

Has anyone able to get a quote from Radian Title Services directly recently? How do you obtain a quote from them?

TIA
Contact them at clientrelations@radian.com. Give them your address, loan amount, and lender name. Then they will send a quote.
Curious about this too. At what point can I shop for the title company? Better wants to charge us nearly $3k for the services we can shop for...seems like I can do better. We have a loan estimate now and are in the process of going through underwriting.
I don't see why you wouldn't get those quotes ASAP after locking....
I thought my Title 365 fees were pretty reasonable... However, since it was mentioned, I went ahead and sent radian an email to get a quote. I have heard that in some cases if you delay the process, Better will just give you lender credit to make up the difference to keep on with their preferred. Not sure if that only applies if it's their title company...

Hopefully Radian is cheaper, if it is, I'll ask them to give me a lender credit since I don't really want to bother to delay the process or switch at this point.
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

newbie20 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:50 am FWIW, you may not see a linear decrease in points (or increase in credits) across all rate and term tiers. In my case, I asked them to match the Bankrate offer that had the maximum difference (about $4,800) from their quote. They did that, but all remaining rates/terms showed varying differences (from $4,800 to as low as $2,261).
That's super interesting! I was so sure that their pricing department simply looks at the request match, calculates the difference, and applies the same discount across the rate card. I happened to have tracked three days' worth of data , each day asked them to match to a different rate and found that I could calculated the expected after-match points every single time. It looks like it's not so simple!

I wonder if it all depend on the "native" "original" rate card changes which I've noticed could change a couple of times a day, versus bankrate prices only change once daily over the three days I observed.
DesertInvestor
Posts: 489
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:04 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DesertInvestor »

MrJedi wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:03 pm
DesertInvestor wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:47 pm
ymmt wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 pm Personally am fine with what I locked in earlier; don't want to get too greedy.

Printing 1.75% for 15yrs, and they're paying me to do it... unbelievable times we live in.

I normally pay down extra principal every month towards my mortgage to work down the balance. I don't think I can justify it with such a low cost of financing.
New to this thread? What lender is 1.75% for 15 years?? I have contacted Better and BOA, BOA dramatically lower cost to refinance thusfar. 2.1% for 15 year and 2.6% for 30. Any lender the BH prefer ?
Common strategy here has been to go with Better due to $2000 ($6000 for jumbo loan) credit for Amex cardholders. The trick is that Better offers garbage upfront and you have to haggle them down. You can go to bankrate and screenshot the Better offers there to get one of those rates. Or you can get a Loan Estimate from places like LenderFi, Loan Cabin, Loan Depot, etc. (these places tend to give decent estimates to begin with without the haggle game) and give it to Better to compete/match. Then you stack the Amex deal on top for the icing on the cake. You can keep passing estimates back and forth to try and keep improving, but those few steps will get you most of the way.
Thats an awesome summary! Thank you! i already contacted Better, i guess I should look to the rest and find best rate then come back for the 2k credit. Any tricks with the credit or has anyone been denied after they closed?
MiddleOfTheRoad
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:19 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MiddleOfTheRoad »

livelifealittle wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:50 am
MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:43 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:45 am
MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:19 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:57 pm

We'll keep the current house. What does dropping the loan app mean?
We submitted the app several months ago but since it is being built, nothing is going on with that app until at least November. Will the lender for the current house refi be able to find out about the mortgage app for the new build?
If credit score has not been pulled then they have no idea. But if there is a pull on your credit report they may ask. If it was me, I’d probably go ahead and refi. If they ask then say you were shopping for a mortgage (refi :wink: )
I did some googling and found someone said that when the new purchase loan app is submitted, it might get flagged since there is a refi for another primary in less than 1 year. Do you know if this is true? I don't think we'll have any issue with the refi lender but I'm a little concerned about not being able to close the new home.
From my experience, any hard credit pull will be asked about, i.e. “flagged”. You just have to clarify or confirm it. As long as your score is good and your income can support the debt then no problem. Just don’t start any applications for any kind of credit until a loan is closed and you will be fine. In addition, we have a checking account (our emergency funds) that has minimal activities and that’s the only one that I turn in for the refi so they don’t ask too many questions about random deposits or line items. :P
For example in my case, I refi 6 mos earlier, and after that got a new credit card and a 0% car loan. I was asked about all those credit pull and had to confirm it on my current refi. That’s it. My new mortgage with Better is funding tomorrow!
I think I might have shot myself in the foot since the new lender said we can only refinance as investment and the refi lender also said the same thing.
A broker disagreed with it and said since when the refi closes this is still our primary, it shouldn't be an issue. But I'm a little nervous about jeopardizing the new home loan if we go ahead. Maybe I should've said nothing and played dumb! :oops:
I agree with the broker! Technically, until the new home purchase is finalized, nothing is guaranteed so to count that against you in the present time is silly. You can change your mind anytime. But proceed according to your own comfort level.

That’s a lesson I have learned. You don’t have to show all your cards to the lenders. Don’t lie, but just send enough info to qualify for the refi. Otherwise they ask too many questions and you have to write and sign a bunch of letters of explanations. That’s why our emergency funds are in a separate account that does not have any new deposits for a few months (the money is “seasoned”) and that’s our cash reserve to close.

Good luck.
livelifealittle
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:01 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by livelifealittle »

MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:44 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:50 am I think I might have shot myself in the foot since the new lender said we can only refinance as investment and the refi lender also said the same thing.
A broker disagreed with it and said since when the refi closes this is still our primary, it shouldn't be an issue. But I'm a little nervous about jeopardizing the new home loan if we go ahead. Maybe I should've said nothing and played dumb! :oops:
I agree with the broker! Technically, until the new home purchase is finalized, nothing is guaranteed so to count that against you in the present time is silly. You can change your mind anytime. But proceed according to your own comfort level.

That’s a lesson I have learned. You don’t have to show all your cards to the lenders. Don’t lie, but just send enough info to qualify for the refi. Otherwise they ask too many questions and you have to write and sign a bunch of letters of explanations. That’s why our emergency funds are in a separate account that does not have any new deposits for a few months (the money is “seasoned”) and that’s our cash reserve to close.

Good luck.
Sigh... rookie mistake but definitely learning. Don't lie but don't be too transparent.

We do have emergency funds in a separate account without any activities. If we use that, don't they still want to see 2 paycheck deposited into the account? Or just 2 pay stubs? I always thought they want to see the check deposited/direct deposited in the bank account which statement we provide.
MiddleOfTheRoad
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:19 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MiddleOfTheRoad »

livelifealittle wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:53 pm
MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:44 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:50 am I think I might have shot myself in the foot since the new lender said we can only refinance as investment and the refi lender also said the same thing.
A broker disagreed with it and said since when the refi closes this is still our primary, it shouldn't be an issue. But I'm a little nervous about jeopardizing the new home loan if we go ahead. Maybe I should've said nothing and played dumb! :oops:
I agree with the broker! Technically, until the new home purchase is finalized, nothing is guaranteed so to count that against you in the present time is silly. You can change your mind anytime. But proceed according to your own comfort level.

That’s a lesson I have learned. You don’t have to show all your cards to the lenders. Don’t lie, but just send enough info to qualify for the refi. Otherwise they ask too many questions and you have to write and sign a bunch of letters of explanations. That’s why our emergency funds are in a separate account that does not have any new deposits for a few months (the money is “seasoned”) and that’s our cash reserve to close.

Good luck.
Sigh... rookie mistake but definitely learning. Don't lie but don't be too transparent.

We do have emergency funds in a separate account without any activities. If we use that, don't they still want to see 2 paycheck deposited into the account? Or just 2 pay stubs? I always thought they want to see the check deposited/direct deposited in the bank account which statement we provide.
Nope, the paystubs and the money reserve don’t have to connect. Remember your income is verified by your past W2 and tax forms. The paystubs are to make sure that you are currently employed.
Kyrak
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:29 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Kyrak »

MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:34 am
tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:08 am
bestisfree wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:58 am
MrJedi wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:31 am
Kyrak wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:45 pm Need some help figuring out which offer to have Better match with an eye to getting a big credit offer / best rate table. Thanks in advance, 460K condo PURCHASE, 368K Mortgage (80%), 800+ credit scores

Better Site initial rate table
15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) $2326/mo
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) $2347/mo
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) $2368/mo

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) $1454/mo
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) $1478/
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) $1502

BankRate (Better)
15 Year
1.75% 0.325 points (1196) $2326/mo
1.875% 0 points (0) $2347/mo

30 Year
2.375% 1.715 points (6311) $1430/mo
2.625% 0.294 points (1082) $1478/mo
2.750% 0 points (0) $1502/mo

AIMLoan.com
15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT $2346/mo

Would it be better to just have better match themselves at Bankrate? If so, which one to match? Or would having them match AIMLoan actually be better in this case or will it be harder to get approval?

Thanks in advance!
Aimloan looks best to me. For matching other lenders you need an actual Loan Estimate and not just a screenshot.
As other have mentioned, if you ask Better to match bankrate's advertised price of 30 year, 2.625%, ($1082), you should be able to get a discount of ($ 1082 - 4688) = $3606 applied across your Better system rate card. After which, you can probably get

15 year
1.75% 1.64 points (6039) - 3606 = 2433
1.875% 0.977 points (3599) - 3606 = -7 (credit)
2.00% 0.337 points (1240) = -2366 (credit)

30 year
2.5% 1.99 points (7327) - 3606 = 3721
2.625% 1.27 points (4688) - 3606 = 1082
2.75% 0.487 points (1792) - 3606 = -1814 (credit)

This is probably why MrJedi indicated that AimLoan's 15 year 1.875% -0.27 points (-994)CREDIT is the best.

That said, Bankrate offers 30years, 20years, and 15 years fixed. So you should check which pair (Better system - Better@Bankrate) gives you the biggest differential, and ask to be match to that to optimize your discount.
Wouldn't the 15 year 1.75% be better? 1139-6036 = 4897 Doesn't Aimloan have origination fees and such?
Good eye, yes I think that bankrate better 15 year 1.75% is best now that I'm looking closer.
Thanks everyone for all the great advice. I had them match the 15 1.75 and ended up with these rate tables. Decisions, Decisions.

15 Year
1.75% 0.4 points ($1465)
1.875% -.26 CREDIT (-972)
2.0% CREDIT (-3319)
2.25% CREDIT (-4986)

30 Year
2.5 .7 points (2591)
2.625% 0.03 CREDIT (-136)
2.75% 0.80 CREDIT (-2962)
2.875% 1.04 CREDIT (-3860)
3% 1.34 CREDIT (-4950)

Then of course +2K for the Amex offer. I'm thinking of doing the 2.25 15 since it is a purchase and I should be able to eat up that credit with prepaids or closing costs. Think this is probably good enough but I'm open to any thoughts!
livelifealittle
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:01 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by livelifealittle »

MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:06 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:53 pm
MiddleOfTheRoad wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:44 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:50 am I think I might have shot myself in the foot since the new lender said we can only refinance as investment and the refi lender also said the same thing.
A broker disagreed with it and said since when the refi closes this is still our primary, it shouldn't be an issue. But I'm a little nervous about jeopardizing the new home loan if we go ahead. Maybe I should've said nothing and played dumb! :oops:
I agree with the broker! Technically, until the new home purchase is finalized, nothing is guaranteed so to count that against you in the present time is silly. You can change your mind anytime. But proceed according to your own comfort level.

That’s a lesson I have learned. You don’t have to show all your cards to the lenders. Don’t lie, but just send enough info to qualify for the refi. Otherwise they ask too many questions and you have to write and sign a bunch of letters of explanations. That’s why our emergency funds are in a separate account that does not have any new deposits for a few months (the money is “seasoned”) and that’s our cash reserve to close.

Good luck.
Sigh... rookie mistake but definitely learning. Don't lie but don't be too transparent.

We do have emergency funds in a separate account without any activities. If we use that, don't they still want to see 2 paycheck deposited into the account? Or just 2 pay stubs? I always thought they want to see the check deposited/direct deposited in the bank account which statement we provide.
Nope, the paystubs and the money reserve don’t have to connect. Remember your income is verified by your past W2 and tax forms. The paystubs are to make sure that you are currently employed.
:shock: Learn new thing every single day. Thank you so much!
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grogu
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by grogu »

For those who refinanced with Better more than about a month ago (i.e., before it was announced that the adverse market fee was dropped) and received the $2k AMEX credit, are you planning on starting another refinance now (to lock in an additional reduction in your rate), or are you going to wait until closer to the 6-month mark in order to try for a second $2k credit? I suppose a third option is to try to do both (i.e., refinance again now AND when your initial 6-month period is over), but that would require an additional drop in rates (which isn’t impossible).
Goal33
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

grogu wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:22 pm For those who refinanced with Better more than about a month ago (i.e., before it was announced that the adverse market fee was dropped) and received the $2k AMEX credit, are you planning on starting another refinance now (to lock in an additional reduction in your rate), or are you going to wait until closer to the 6-month mark in order to try for a second $2k credit? I suppose a third option is to try to do both (i.e., refinance again now AND when your initial 6-month period is over), but that would require an additional drop in rates (which isn’t impossible).
Will better refinance you right after refinancing you?
Goal33
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:50 pm
tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:25 am
All_About_Benjis wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:57 am
tj wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:23 pm
bestisfree wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:08 pm Better mortgage's default title service company is Title365 in my state.

I've seen several posts about people having good experience with Radian Title Services.

However, their old url (https://www.radiantitledirect.com/) seem to get directed to another affiliated company called titlegenius by radian that appears to be an insurance company.

Has anyone able to get a quote from Radian Title Services directly recently? How do you obtain a quote from them?

TIA
Contact them at clientrelations@radian.com. Give them your address, loan amount, and lender name. Then they will send a quote.
Curious about this too. At what point can I shop for the title company? Better wants to charge us nearly $3k for the services we can shop for...seems like I can do better. We have a loan estimate now and are in the process of going through underwriting.
I don't see why you wouldn't get those quotes ASAP after locking....
I thought my Title 365 fees were pretty reasonable... However, since it was mentioned, I went ahead and sent radian an email to get a quote. I have heard that in some cases if you delay the process, Better will just give you lender credit to make up the difference to keep on with their preferred. Not sure if that only applies if it's their title company...

Hopefully Radian is cheaper, if it is, I'll ask them to give me a lender credit since I don't really want to bother to delay the process or switch at this point.
Radian told me Better needs to request the quote. I am not going to bother.
kd2008
Posts: 1274
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by kd2008 »

We locked 15yr @ 2% for 204K loan with $430 in credits with better on July 20th. Not the best deal but that is what I got by matching bankrate on that morning. Today we are waiting for the closing disclosures, and then schedule a closing date. Pretty fast process so far.

$430 in credit + $2K Amex credit covers our closing costs.

Anything else I need to watch out for when the loan gets sold etc.? Thank you forum for your help.
tj
Posts: 9368
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

Goal33 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:48 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:50 pm
tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:25 am
All_About_Benjis wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:57 am
tj wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:23 pm

Contact them at clientrelations@radian.com. Give them your address, loan amount, and lender name. Then they will send a quote.
Curious about this too. At what point can I shop for the title company? Better wants to charge us nearly $3k for the services we can shop for...seems like I can do better. We have a loan estimate now and are in the process of going through underwriting.
I don't see why you wouldn't get those quotes ASAP after locking....
I thought my Title 365 fees were pretty reasonable... However, since it was mentioned, I went ahead and sent radian an email to get a quote. I have heard that in some cases if you delay the process, Better will just give you lender credit to make up the difference to keep on with their preferred. Not sure if that only applies if it's their title company...

Hopefully Radian is cheaper, if it is, I'll ask them to give me a lender credit since I don't really want to bother to delay the process or switch at this point.
Radian told me Better needs to request the quote. I am not going to bother.
You can use First American's and Chicago Title's calculators to see if it's in line with Better. I wouldn't think Better's is on the high side.
ymmt
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:59 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ymmt »

tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:18 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:48 pm
Goal33 wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:50 pm
tj wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:25 am
All_About_Benjis wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:57 am Curious about this too. At what point can I shop for the title company? Better wants to charge us nearly $3k for the services we can shop for...seems like I can do better. We have a loan estimate now and are in the process of going through underwriting.
I don't see why you wouldn't get those quotes ASAP after locking....
I thought my Title 365 fees were pretty reasonable... However, since it was mentioned, I went ahead and sent radian an email to get a quote. I have heard that in some cases if you delay the process, Better will just give you lender credit to make up the difference to keep on with their preferred. Not sure if that only applies if it's their title company...

Hopefully Radian is cheaper, if it is, I'll ask them to give me a lender credit since I don't really want to bother to delay the process or switch at this point.
Radian told me Better needs to request the quote. I am not going to bother.
You can use First American's and Chicago Title's calculators to see if it's in line with Better. I wouldn't think Better's is on the high side.
Better is using Vantage Title for me and they are charging almost $3k as another poster mentioned. The calculators show almost 1.5k cheaper fees. :x
wxturtle
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by wxturtle »

Locked (for 30 days) with Better last night after getting them to match Bankrate. Nothing else on Bankrate or Lenderfi could match.

$308,000 remaining on a $450,000 home, went with 30 yr/2.5/0 points + no escrow. $3300 closing costs - $2000 AMEX = -$1300 end of day to go from existing 3.625 to 2.5.

Question -- of course ( :oops: ), rates went down today, currently about $400 better in credits. I'm inclined to let sleeping dogs lie but...

1.) I saw somewhere that you can change a rate along the locked rate table before closing. Ex: if we wanted to go from 2.5 to 2.625 (would come out ahead with credits) we could do that with no penalty. Is this true?

2.) Since we had an appraisal waived, could we just cancel the refi app + submit a new one if rates continue to go down in the next week to get better numbers? Or is there a cool down period after applying, even if the app is withdrawn/cancelled?

3.) Anyone gotten a float down or other adjustment after lock?


Have an e-mail in to my LO, but figured I'd get opinions here, too :)
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