Refinance Mega Thread

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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

WhatsUpB wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:28 am Better just "matched". All advice needed and appreciated please on what and how to push back on these please.

Image

By the way, offer is at 2.865% (2.913% APR) which seems very reasonable with "no" fees.
Assuming this is for the same rate as Interfirst, then it is MUCH more competitive. That said, 2.865% is not a standard Better rate - they use 1/8 % increments. Perhaps you meant 2.875%? Either way, assuming this and the Interfirst one is a quote for the same rate vs. Interfirst for 2.5% and Better for 2.875% or something like that, then you are set.

Still shop Radian though.
WhatsUpB
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhatsUpB »

It seems like $930 of fees with the $2k AMEX rebate is a good to great deal. -$1,070 in fees with a sub 3% interest rate (2.875%) from Better.
WhatsUpB
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhatsUpB »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:46 am
WhatsUpB wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:28 am Better just "matched". All advice needed and appreciated please on what and how to push back on these please.

Image

By the way, offer is at 2.865% (2.913% APR) which seems very reasonable with "no" fees.
Assuming this is for the same rate as Interfirst, then it is MUCH more competitive. That said, 2.865% is not a standard Better rate - they use 1/8 % increments. Perhaps you meant 2.875%? Either way, assuming this and the Interfirst one is a quote for the same rate vs. Interfirst for 2.5% and Better for 2.875% or something like that, then you are set.

Still shop Radian though.
Inter is 2.865%
Better is 2.875% (like you said their standard requires this)
mceagle555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

WhatsUpB wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:41 am 1. Purchase price of home - $975,000
2. Downpayment: $275,000
3. Zip code of purchase: 90042
4. 30 yr, 20 yr, 15yr? 30 yr
5. Do you have an Amex card? (For $2k Better credit) Yes have AMEX card and will get back $2k.
6. How long do you forecast owning the home? 7 years minimum
Plugging your numbers into Bankrate.com, Better's advertised price there is 2.875% with $3,241 in points. Hence, at $316 in points, you're already below Better's Bankrate numbers (a good thing).

Shop your Section C title services (Radian or local title company) and you're good.

Up to you on whether you want to escrow or not (Section G).
WhatsUpB
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhatsUpB »

Ya Better offered $930 in fees which matches Inter (better just split them differently then Inter). But then I get $2k back from AMEX so all Better fees negated. -$1,070 in fees (after AMEX credit) and a 2.875% rate seems like it is def good enough to stop negotiating and move forward - is what I am hearing you all.

Moving on to sourcing the title costs with Radian Settlement Services if so.
WhatsUpB
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by WhatsUpB »

Looks like I have to use the title company of the seller so cannot source as the buyer. Better is flying, already conditionally approved and waved the appraisal ($550 more back).
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

Jealous. I should have just used Better on my purchase. :oops:
DMB41
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

DMB41 wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:06 pm Just wanted to share my journey so far. I'm working on a new loan for a purchase of a new construction home that is due to be complete 12/10 (not a refinance/no current mortgage). Luckily, pretty much all the information I learned here applies to purchases, not just refinancing, so that was really helpful in the whole process. Big thanks to this community and this thread in particular for all the helpful information.

When we signed the purchase contract for the house we went ahead and applied for a loan through the builders preferred lender (happens to be the the same "company" as the builder). They had a seemingly enticing deal of $4k in "seller" credits if we went with this lender. Knowing what I knew from reading this thread, I was hesitant that it was really even a deal, but went ahead with the pre-qualification anyway just to have a bargaining chip with other lender(s). Shortly after signing the contract and getting set up with their lender, I went ahead and applied with Better. I did not apply with any other lenders. I had the same experience as everyone else in that the rates being offered out of the gate from Better were not competitive at all. At this point in time I was over 3 months out from closing, so I wasn't in a position to rate lock with either company.

Last week we crossed the 60 day mark for the estimated closing date so I decided to start playing the rate/price matching game with Better so that I could lock my rate. Better recommended locking around 60 days out for a 75 day rate lock in order to give some buffer room on closing. I believe this 75 day lock is not standard from them and is only available under certain circumstances, such as for a new construction loan like I am getting. 45-60 days seems to be the norm. I took a look at the rates being offered on Bankrate, Zillow and SmartAsset (these were the only three sites I could find that would display rates without having to provide any personal information) and made a table calculating the biggest cost difference between what Better was offering on their rate table vs the three websites listed. I believe some other members have explained this in more detail, but this was very helpful as the costs could vary wildly between rates, even rates I was not interested in.

SmartAsset actually ended up having the largest price difference at nearly $4k at 2.75% for 30-yr so I took a screenshot of that and sent it to my LO. This was not the case leading up to rate lock though. I had been tracking the prices from the three websites listed for about a week leading up to rate lock and bankrate was the cheapest the majority of the time with Zillow having better rates every so often. One piece of advice on tracking the rates, I noticed that bankrate updates their rates around 9-10AM CST so on the day you decide to have Better match these rates, you may want to take a screenshot early in the morning and then see if the rates get better or worse once they update and then use whichever is better. Since the date in the screenshot will be the same regardless, Better should match either one. Better wasn't able to completely match SmartAsset's price since the website specifically called out a 45-day rate lock at that price, but they did lower it by about $3k which put it within the same ballpark as Bankrate and Zillows offerings.

With my rate table updated, I locked in at 30yr, 2.875% with $2,163 in credits + $2k AMEX promo. With this latest loan estimate, I went to the local lender, who's initial offer out of the gate was pretty bad. 3% with points and fees. Not really competitive, despite the $4k credits. I sent them Better's LE and they came back with a better offer; 3%, but no points and reduced fees. However, this still wasn't as good as Better. They said that was as low as they could go so I pressed forward with Better. A few days later I get an unprompted email from the local lender with a new offer; same offer as before, including the $4k credit, but at 2.75%! I saved the rate table before locking with Better (I recommend everyone do the same) so I was able to reference the cost of a 2.75% loan with Better. That costs was $348 in points (no credits). Therefore, the A+B+C costs for the local lender was nearly $4500 cheaper than Better (not including the $2k AMEX promo) at 2.75%. I reached back out to Better to see if they could match, but they couldn't. Didn't even offer any additional incentives to try and keep me. Needless to say, I told them that for $4500 I have to go with the other lender.

So I ended up with:
30-yr @ 2.75%
A+B+C = $2,519
Seller credits: -$4000
Net: +$1,481

I, of course, have other fees for sections E-H so I still end up having to pay a few grand in closing costs on top of my down payment, but overall I am happy with the outcome so far. Despite not going with Better, I am glad I began an application with them so that I was able to have a competitive offer to force the local lender down in cost. Their online portal is awesome and their communication and responsiveness was really good. Like some others have mentioned, it might be worth waiting until after you've done all your negotiating to add the AMEX offer. Better did use that as a bargaining chip on one of my back and forth conversations trying to get them to match rates.
Just wanted to follow up on my previous post with a slight issue I had with Better, even though I didn't end up going with them. Before I got the more compelling offer from the local lender, I had already rate locked with Better and was pressing forward with them. In that process, one of my tasks was to get an appraisal scheduled. That's all well and good obviously as I'll need that with a new construction home. However, what I didn't realize was that they were going to get the first of two appraisals (they do two for new construction for some reason) started right away. Literally the day after I completed the task they had the appraisal scheduled and the day after that the appraisal was completed. Well a day or two after the appraisal was completed (and I was charged $550 for it) I switched over to the other lender. Now that appraisal that I got and spent money on is worthless. I'd hoped it could be used by my local lender in place of their appraisal, but no dice. I asked for a refund hoping to get one, but was denied. Now I am out $550 and a little upset, but unfortunately Better is probably in the right here since I authorized the appraisal. It's a little frustrating that they had the first appraisal done so early; I wasn't expecting that. It was completed almost 60 days out from closing on a house that isn't in a condition to really be appraised properly (even though it did appraise well, luckily). The house is still missing countertops, lighting, appliances, toilets, sinks, light switches, door knobs, landscaping, driveway, etc. At this point I guess I just have to admit defeat. I thought of disputing the charge on my credit card, but wasn't sure if that would really get me anywhere.

Just wanted to give other people who may be in a similar situation a heads up. If anyone has any ideas on how to get the money back or make the best of the situation, I am all ears.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

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Mako
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Mako »

DMB41 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:21 am Just wanted to follow up on my previous post with a slight issue I had with Better, even though I didn't end up going with them. Before I got the more compelling offer from the local lender, I had already rate locked with Better and was pressing forward with them. In that process, one of my tasks was to get an appraisal scheduled. That's all well and good obviously as I'll need that with a new construction home. However, what I didn't realize was that they were going to get the first of two appraisals (they do two for new construction for some reason) started right away. Literally the day after I completed the task they had the appraisal scheduled and the day after that the appraisal was completed. Well a day or two after the appraisal was completed (and I was charged $550 for it) I switched over to the other lender. Now that appraisal that I got and spent money on is worthless. I'd hoped it could be used by my local lender in place of their appraisal, but no dice. I asked for a refund hoping to get one, but was denied. Now I am out $550 and a little upset, but unfortunately Better is probably in the right here since I authorized the appraisal. It's a little frustrating that they had the first appraisal done so early; I wasn't expecting that. It was completed almost 60 days out from closing on a house that isn't in a condition to really be appraised properly (even though it did appraise well, luckily). The house is still missing countertops, lighting, appliances, toilets, sinks, light switches, door knobs, landscaping, driveway, etc. At this point I guess I just have to admit defeat. I thought of disputing the charge on my credit card, but wasn't sure if that would really get me anywhere.

Just wanted to give other people who may be in a similar situation a heads up. If anyone has any ideas on how to get the money back or make the best of the situation, I am all ears.
You requested a service, authorized it, and they provided that service. You changed your mind about needing that service after it was done. Doesn't seem like you should get your money back IMO, even if was done earlier than you expected. That seems like the cost of doing business if you're going to keep shopping around after locking (which is fine to do, but possibly losing out on the appraisal is what people always warn about).
DMB41
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

Mako wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:34 am
DMB41 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:21 am Just wanted to follow up on my previous post with a slight issue I had with Better, even though I didn't end up going with them. Before I got the more compelling offer from the local lender, I had already rate locked with Better and was pressing forward with them. In that process, one of my tasks was to get an appraisal scheduled. That's all well and good obviously as I'll need that with a new construction home. However, what I didn't realize was that they were going to get the first of two appraisals (they do two for new construction for some reason) started right away. Literally the day after I completed the task they had the appraisal scheduled and the day after that the appraisal was completed. Well a day or two after the appraisal was completed (and I was charged $550 for it) I switched over to the other lender. Now that appraisal that I got and spent money on is worthless. I'd hoped it could be used by my local lender in place of their appraisal, but no dice. I asked for a refund hoping to get one, but was denied. Now I am out $550 and a little upset, but unfortunately Better is probably in the right here since I authorized the appraisal. It's a little frustrating that they had the first appraisal done so early; I wasn't expecting that. It was completed almost 60 days out from closing on a house that isn't in a condition to really be appraised properly (even though it did appraise well, luckily). The house is still missing countertops, lighting, appliances, toilets, sinks, light switches, door knobs, landscaping, driveway, etc. At this point I guess I just have to admit defeat. I thought of disputing the charge on my credit card, but wasn't sure if that would really get me anywhere.

Just wanted to give other people who may be in a similar situation a heads up. If anyone has any ideas on how to get the money back or make the best of the situation, I am all ears.
You requested a service, authorized it, and they provided that service. You changed your mind about needing that service after it was done. Doesn't seem like you should get your money back IMO, even if was done earlier than you expected. That seems like the cost of doing business if you're going to keep shopping around after locking (which is fine to do, but possibly losing out on the appraisal is what people always warn about).
Yea I don't disagree with anything you said. Like I mentioned, just unfortunate that they initiated an appraisal so early and so quick. Seems unnecessarily rushed and maybe even a way to get money out of people like me who switch lenders after rate lock. The bright side of all this is had I not locked with Better I never would have gotten the offer from the other lender (which is saving me much more than the $550 I am losing). Had I known I would potentially be switching over to the other lender I wouldn't have authorized the appraisal until I was 100% sure who I was going with. Like I mentioned in my original post, the local lender stated that was "as low as they could go" for the rate and closing costs so I didn't pursue them any further, but they sent me a better offer out of the blue once I locked with Better so it caught me off guard. Oh well!
BillWalters
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BillWalters »

Our refinance with Better recently closed. Very smooth process and I would recommend to anyone. 2.75%, 30 year fixed rate jumbo. With the $6k Amex credit, a total no-brainer. Did everything online until the closing, they sent a notary to our house, done in 30 mins.
atx1202
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by atx1202 »

Hi, i am planning on doing a cash-out refinance with better (w/ Amex Promo). Would greatly appreciate any inputs on the below questions i have

1) I cannot close until 12/15/2021 (mandatory 1 yr wait in TX after prior cash-out refi). Do you know if better would do a 45 day rate lock when matched with Bank Rate screenshot? (Bank rate does say 30 day rate lock beside the rate)

2) Can i apply for an Amex card after filling in the better applictaion (prior to rate lock?) or do i need to do it prior to the application?

3) Any recommendations on Amex cards with new customer promotions?

Thank you!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

atx1202 wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:00 pm Hi, i am planning on doing a cash-out refinance with better (w/ Amex Promo). Would greatly appreciate any inputs on the below questions i have

1) I cannot close until 12/15/2021 (mandatory 1 yr wait in TX after prior cash-out refi). Do you know if better would do a 45 day rate lock when matched with Bank Rate screenshot? (Bank rate does say 30 day rate lock beside the rate)

2) Can i apply for an Amex card after filling in the better applictaion (prior to rate lock?) or do i need to do it prior to the application?

3) Any recommendations on Amex cards with new customer promotions?

Thank you!
1. The Bankrate quotes are specifically for 30 day locks. 45 day locks will have more expensive pricing, though likely not by too much. You can ask up front about it, but you could very well just be ignorant and see when the title/settlement agent says “we gotta wait”. At that point, you may or may not see Better foot the bill vs. passing it to you.

2. Yes. Keep in mind that even a $0 balance card comes into the calculations for Debt-To-Income (typically 1% or 2% of the credit limit). If your credit score isn’t right around a major tier (720, 740, 760) so the hit on your score from the new card doesn’t impact things, and your DTI has room to absorb the extra minimum payment calculations, then you likely will be fine.
KeepinItPositive
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by KeepinItPositive »

Regarding price matching with Better:

It looks to me that currently Better's rates on Zillow.com beat those on bankrate.com and on better.com directly

I've previously gotten them to price match from a screenshot on bankrate.com but have not done the same from Zillow.

Has anyone done this? If so, which info needs to be submitted?

Note: This is for a purchase, not a refi.

Thanks!
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

KeepinItPositive wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:01 pm Regarding price matching with Better:

It looks to me that currently Better's rates on Zillow.com beat those on bankrate.com and on better.com directly

I've previously gotten them to price match from a screenshot on bankrate.com but have not done the same from Zillow.

Has anyone done this? If so, which info needs to be submitted?

Note: This is for a purchase, not a refi.

Thanks!
I’ve had them match their offer on Zillow without issue. The same rules apply: must be done before locking; best to do it with the most advantageous difference, even if that isn’t the rate/term you ultimately want; screenshot should include quote details such as home value and loan amount; etc.
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rocket354
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rocket354 »

rocket354 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:43 pm
slickracer wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:21 am Wanted to provide a data point on the Amex credit...I received my $2,000 exactly two weeks after funding.
Great to hear. Sounds a lot better than the 8-12 weeks the fine print says.

-------------

Just to give people another data point. I locked on 8/22 with Better for a refi on an investment property, 60% LTV conforming loan, for 3.125%. I had to do the screenshot of bankrate play to get that offer. When I locked, it was going to be a cost of $800 after counting the $2000 AMEX credit, but by closing they found they'd overestimated the Lender's Title Insurance by almost exactly $800, and so that charge was reduced a day or two out. So this was a true no-cost refi.

Unlike others, I did hit some snags. They kept asking for more items. Luckily their online portal made it easy. But whoever they had working my file was probably new. Example issue: I have a few investment properties (IP) and they asked for the lease for IP #1 only. I submitted it. Two days later, they request the lease for IP #2 only. So I give them that...and the lease for IP #3 since I assumed that was going to be next. I get a red message back the next day, "submitted unrequested item" or to that effect. Well, alrighty then...

So there was some back and forth and having to submit another month of bank and asset statements. Finally closed on 10/14. Funded on 10/18. Got my cash back from closing direct deposited into my checking out later that same evening. Fingers crossed the AMEX credit comes in quickly.

This was my first refi with Better. I'd kicked the tires with them before, but they never gave a good offer, and once, previously, when I had asked them to match another offer they ghosted me and even deleted my application with no warning. I still much prefer my experiences with LenderFi, who needed less documentation, less repeat documentation, and were able to close in < 15 days. But since they don't do investment properties, I had to find another solution. All in all, it worked out.
Just to give a quick update: I've received the AMEX $2000 credit. So timeline was:

Locked: 8/22
Closed: 10/14
Funded: 10/18
AMEX credit received: 10/29
taaray
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by taaray »

I have waited too long, want to complete a refinance this week. Are all lenders pretty much the same? Are there any more ethical (maybe credit union?) options? Seems like everyone on here likes Better if they match Bankrate.

Current value of property = $650,000
Principal remaining = $389,000
Current rate = 4.125%

I have the ability to take a chunk out of the principal. Should I?

What would be a good rate to target? So far I have one estimate giving me 3% at a Total Loan Cost (A+B+C) = $2,000.00. On Bankrate, I see Better @ 2.25% for $6,500 or another lender I've never heard of @ 2.75% at no-cost(??). Thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice.
Familyman2012
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Familyman2012 »

taaray wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 1:01 am I have waited too long, want to complete a refinance this week. Are all lenders pretty much the same? Are there any more ethical (maybe credit union?) options? Seems like everyone on here likes Better if they match Bankrate.

Current value of property = $650,000
Principal remaining = $389,000
Current rate = 4.125%

I have the ability to take a chunk out of the principal. Should I?

What would be a good rate to target? So far I have one estimate giving me 3% at a Total Loan Cost (A+B+C) = $2,000.00. On Bankrate, I see Better @ 2.25% for $6,500 or another lender I've never heard of @ 2.75% at no-cost(??). Thanks in advance for any thoughts/advice.
I would ask better what rate do they offer for a no cost refi. It might be 2.5-2.75. It’s still a big drop from your 4.125. Plus, if you have Amex, that’s $2000 to you. Do the math, how much are you saving a month if you got a 2.25? Divide $6500(cost) by your monthly saving. That’s how long it will take for you to break even. Most people on the sub would go for a no cost.

Also, if better no cost is 3.0... than go to the lender that offered you a 2.75 .Get a loan estimate for 2.75 and have better match or beat it. You have to play the game and have them bid against each other. It will take work. You’ll probably have to sign some paperwork to get a loan estimate and have your credit checked. But it’s okay. Multiple credit check within a time frame counts as one

For reference: I’ve done 4 refi. 3 with better. All refi since 2020. All no cost. I started 4.25 now My last refi is 1.875 15 year. No cost.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by karwosts »

Familyman2012 wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 7:06 am Divide $6500(cost) by your monthly saving. That’s how long it will take for you to break even. Most people on the sub would go for a no cost.
You need to divide 6500 by the difference in monthly interest, not the difference in monthly payment. The smaller rate loan has a larger percentage of the total payment going to principal each month. If you don't account for that, you make the higher rate loan look more favorable than it really is.
Laddu99
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Laddu99 »

I am getting a credit of $4200 for 15y loan from better refinance, but I have already paid full year of insurance and next 3mo of taxes of $2500.
D+E=$1350 and next quarterly taxes are due in Feb 22.

Would it cause any issue given the fact that I cannot get more than $2k back? Of course, I do not want to leave money on the table.
TIA.
atx1202
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by atx1202 »

Hello, I see Section B & Section C costs (Attorney, Endorsements, settlement & Misc fee) are on the higher end ($800 more than my most recent refi CD) on better.com rate table. Ive maxed out on the lender credit from them, so not sure if they will come down on that prior to rate lock.

Can these be price matched after rate lock - either with a quote from Radian or another LE?

Appreciate any insights
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black jack
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by black jack »

Just received the Closing Disclosure (CD) from InterFirst for a cash-out refinance on a rental home I own. Comparing it to the Loan Estimate, the CD shows both a higher interest rate than the LE (which should still be locked) and $4,300 for a transfer tax that was not shown on the LE.

I've emailed InterFirst asking "WTF!?" (a bit more diplomatically). Meanwhile, I found a reference upthread that the CFPB regs don’t allow transfer taxes to increase from the LE except in certain limited circumstances. However, according to the CFPB summary on their website (https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfp ... te-en-172/), one of those limited circumstances is when "the appraisal on the home you want to buy comes in higher or lower than expected."

Does anyone know if that exception also applies to refinancings? The appraisal on the home (which was my family residence until a couple of years ago) came in over 20% below Zillow's Zestimate and over 10% below Redfin and Realtor.com's estimates for the house, and over 25% below the recent sales price of several homes of similar size and age in the same neighborhood. I questioned the appraiser about his choice of comps, but he blew me off.

This appraisal exception, unless it's qualified in some way, seems like one that would undermine every CFPB protection, since how often can it be the case that a buyer or owner seeking refinancing would be able to estimate the value of a house and have that exactly match the appraisal?
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cchrissyy
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by cchrissyy »

is it true in your city that transfer tax applies to a refinance?!
that sounds like a mistake to me.
are you changing how you hold title, maybe adding/removing somebody from it?
i would ask the title company why they added that line
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black jack
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by black jack »

My county assesses a "recordation" tax on the cash-out portion of refinancings (I just verified). There is a separate tax called a transfer tax that does not apply to refinancings, but as I understand it for its purposes CFPB defines any tax that's assessed as a percentage of the loan amount as a transfer tax.
We cannot absolutely prove [that they are wrong who say] that we have seen our best days. But so said all who came before us, and with just as much apparent reason. | -T. B. Macaulay (1800-1859)
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rocket354
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rocket354 »

cchrissyy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:17 pm is it true in your city that transfer tax applies to a refinance?!
that sounds like a mistake to me.
are you changing how you hold title, maybe adding/removing somebody from it?
i would ask the title company why they added that line
In my state, transfer taxes apply to all real estate transactions, even refinances.
manuvns
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by manuvns »

I have received following fees and closing costs on an investment property cashout refi ( 120k@3.5% / 20 yrs fixed / 75% LTV ) . Do they look good to you any inputs will be appeciated . this is from sofi lending

0.065% OF LOAN AMOUNT (POINTS) to SOFI LENDING CORP $78.00
ADMINISTRATION FEE $995.00
APPRAISAL 216/1007 $125.00
APPRAISAL FEE $475.00
CREDIT REPORT FEE $48.14
FLOOD CERTIFICATION FEE to CORELOGIC $4.00
TAX SERVICE FEE to CENLAR $80.00
TITLE - CLOSING PROTECTION LET to MORTGAGE CONNECT, LP $25.00
TITLE - INSURANCE/LENDERS $380.00
TITLE - SETTLEMENT/ESCROW/CLOS $495.00
MORTGAGE RECORDING FEE $106.00
MORTGAGE TAX $180.00
RELEASE RECORDING FEE $29.00
Prepaid Interest ($11.67 per day from 12/16/21 to 1/1/22) $186.72
Thanks!
mceagle555
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mceagle555 »

Friendly reminder that the FED is meeting today @ 2:00pm EST and their decisions could impact interest rates quickly.

If you have been thinking about locking a rate, I'd do it before 2:00pm EST.
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

I haven't been able to find how long Better will keep a pre-approval/application open for? I'm wanting to watch rates float, etc until I get close to 6 months after my AMEX rebate (which I'm assuming that clock started on the previous Funding date?)
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MortgageOnBlack
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MortgageOnBlack »

Happy with my rate… 2.125%, 0 points, 15 year, 175k balance from Better. Going to pay an extra $150 a month to get this loan paid off in 13.5 years. As real estate prices keep rising (our house estimate is now $400k!), I see no reason to move anytime soon. I hate debt.
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

nic3456 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:14 pm I haven't been able to find how long Better will keep a pre-approval/application open for? I'm wanting to watch rates float, etc until I get close to 6 months after my AMEX rebate (which I'm assuming that clock started on the previous Funding date?)
30 days. They will contact around 20 days in and say you must move forward by XYX date or your app will be cancelled.
nerdymarketer
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nerdymarketer »

For anyone shopping, Better is still advertising a 15 year mortgage for 1.75% with $0 points in the PNW area.

To get that rate you'll need excellent credit plus a high (> $500K) loan balance, and there's a price break at 75% LTV.

I actually cash-out refi'd to increase our loan balance up to the conforming loan limit and then immediately refi'd again (both times with Better) back down to a lower non-cash-out rate, so it can be done. The risk being that mortgage rates can move against you while you're waiting for the first refi to close before you can lock on the second lower non-cash-out rate.

Currently about to close a 1.875% with $2,800 in lender credits, locked a few weeks ago. Based on what I see on Bankrate it's still possible to lock that with that much credit. Unfortunately I wasn't eligible for Amex the second time around since 6 months hadn't passed.
nic3456
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

Has anyone been able to confirm when you are eligible for another Amex rebate? I know the Amex terms say 6 months, but is that 6 months from

Closing?
Funding?
Receiving Credit?
Something else?
livelifealittle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by livelifealittle »

Can someone please help me to check if the loan we're getting can be refinance immediately? We're getting lender credit from the builder's preferred lender (new construction) and would like to refi asap soon after closing. Where in the LE should I check for the term? Is it this clause?

Refinance
Refinancing this loan will depend on your future financial situation, the property value, and
market conditions. You may not be able to refinance this loan.

It's conventional 30 yr loan.
The Big Apple
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by The Big Apple »

livelifealittle wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:33 am Refinance
Refinancing this loan will depend on your future financial situation, the property value, and
market conditions. You may not be able to refinance this loan.
I think that's generic language that appears on all loan estimates (it definitely showed up on mine). I don't think you'll have an issue refinancing as long as you meet the new lender's requirements. Is the builder getting some sort of commission as part of your using of their preferred lender? If so, their commission might get clawed back.
livelifealittle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by livelifealittle »

The Big Apple wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:02 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:33 am Refinance
Refinancing this loan will depend on your future financial situation, the property value, and
market conditions. You may not be able to refinance this loan.
I think that's generic language that appears on all loan estimates (it definitely showed up on mine). I don't think you'll have an issue refinancing as long as you meet the new lender's requirements. Is the builder getting some sort of commission as part of your using of their preferred lender? If so, their commission might get clawed back.
The builder is a shareholder of the lending company. I think we're gonna go with higher rate with a credit so we can keep the builder/lender credit and then refi immediately to a much lower rate with different lender. I don't see any other language in the loan doc that specifically says we cannot refi within x months.
zagguru
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by zagguru »

What would you go with on a 30 year jumbo loan for a purchase? 1.1 Million, 10% down (no pmi due to being physician).

30 year fixed 2.75% 1/4 point or 10/6 arm 2.25% also 1/4 point?
With rates so low, I want to lock it in for the life of the loan, but then I am reading on this thread that people were able to extend their fixed term ARM period by doing a modification (i.e. convert from 10/6 arm to full 30 year fixed rate - which would mean keeping 2.25% for a 30 year via modification). I just dont know if those instances were a one off YMMV or if it is pretty common and easy to do in today's environment.
maddogio
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by maddogio »

I refinanced with Better about 4 months ago and earned the AmEx credit. We're considering another refinance to get cash out to do updates and a small addition.

I've read the AmEx documentation closely, but I can't find any language that says you can't earn the credit twice if you refinance separately with Better and Rocket. Surely this can't be true? If it is, we'd look into the cash-out refinance with Rocket to earn a second bonus.
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

maddogio wrote: Sun Nov 07, 2021 8:20 pm I refinanced with Better about 4 months ago and earned the AmEx credit. We're considering another refinance to get cash out to do updates and a small addition.

I've read the AmEx documentation closely, but I can't find any language that says you can't earn the credit twice if you refinance separately with Better and Rocket. Surely this can't be true? If it is, we'd look into the cash-out refinance with Rocket to earn a second bonus.
The Amex promo is not a promo from Amex, but from the lender. So while Better and Rocket are offering the same thing, they are independent and unrelated promotions.
Minty
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Minty »

livelifealittle wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:55 pm
The Big Apple wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:02 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:33 am Refinance
Refinancing this loan will depend on your future financial situation, the property value, and
market conditions. You may not be able to refinance this loan.
I think that's generic language that appears on all loan estimates (it definitely showed up on mine). I don't think you'll have an issue refinancing as long as you meet the new lender's requirements. Is the builder getting some sort of commission as part of your using of their preferred lender? If so, their commission might get clawed back.
The builder is a shareholder of the lending company. I think we're gonna go with higher rate with a credit so we can keep the builder/lender credit and then refi immediately to a much lower rate with different lender. I don't see any other language in the loan doc that specifically says we cannot refi within x months.
Your docs should say that there is no prepayment penalty. I would assume that that means there is no prohibition on refinancing.
Core Four w/ nominal bonds & TIPS. Refi Rampage: Purchase: 3.875% 30 -> R1 3% 20 -> R2 2.375% 15 -> R3 1.99% 15 -> R4 1.875% 15
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Minty wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:30 am
livelifealittle wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:55 pm
The Big Apple wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:02 pm
livelifealittle wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:33 am Refinance
Refinancing this loan will depend on your future financial situation, the property value, and
market conditions. You may not be able to refinance this loan.
I think that's generic language that appears on all loan estimates (it definitely showed up on mine). I don't think you'll have an issue refinancing as long as you meet the new lender's requirements. Is the builder getting some sort of commission as part of your using of their preferred lender? If so, their commission might get clawed back.
The builder is a shareholder of the lending company. I think we're gonna go with higher rate with a credit so we can keep the builder/lender credit and then refi immediately to a much lower rate with different lender. I don't see any other language in the loan doc that specifically says we cannot refi within x months.
Your docs should say that there is no prepayment penalty. I would assume that that means there is no prohibition on refinancing.
There is unlikely to be a prepayment penalty/prohibition on refinancing from the lender. However, oftentimes builders will offer discounts/rebates if you use their "preferred" lender. The builder's paperwork you sign at closing may include clawbacks if the loan if refinanced in a period of time. It should be noted though that the entity that would "charge" a penalty is the builder, not the lender, so that wouldn't be classified as a prepayment penalty on the loan. Gotta love those creative shenanigans!
Bob_Sacamano
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bob_Sacamano »

Hi, I would like to hear your thoughts on this potential refinance:

Current
Condo value: ~210k
Loan amount: $177,512 (02/01/2020)
Current balance: $165,372
Interest rate: 3.75%
Monthly P+I: $822.09/mo

Refinance
InterFirst
Loan amount: $169,500 (incl. closing costs)
30yr interest rate: 3.115%
30yr monthly P+I: $725.17/mo
15yr interest rate: 2.115%
15yr monthly P+I: $1099.75/mo

Image
https://imgur.com/nAN8mig

This is for a condo which I only plan to keep for another 3 years or so. Is it worth it? I'm not so concerned with the monthly payment. My goal is to maximize equity/interest saved.
atx1202
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by atx1202 »

Hi, I locked my rate for 30yr fixed loan with better last Wednesday and the rates today are much lower.

Has anyone been able to request a price match (bankrate screenshot) after the rate has been locked?

Note: I haven’t had an appraisal yet (tomorrow) and in theory can cancel the application and put in a new one, but would rather avoid the hassle if I can.
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

atx1202 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:23 pm Hi, I locked my rate for 30yr fixed loan with better last Wednesday and the rates today are much lower.

Has anyone been able to request a price match (bankrate screenshot) after the rate has been locked?

Note: I haven’t had an appraisal yet (tomorrow) and in theory can cancel the application and put in a new one, but would rather avoid the hassle if I can.
I can't imagine why you'd be abel to change it after you lock. That is one of the risks. My rate is 30bps higher than it needs to be because I got unlucky with a lock. It happens. If you can cancel without paying anything, do it.
Bob_Sacamano
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bob_Sacamano »

Bob_Sacamano wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:49 pm Hi, I would like to hear your thoughts on this potential refinance:

Current
Condo value: ~210k
Loan amount: $177,512 (02/01/2020)
Current balance: $165,372
Interest rate: 3.75%
Monthly P+I: $822.09/mo

Refinance
InterFirst
Loan amount: $169,500 (incl. closing costs)
30yr interest rate: 3.115%
30yr monthly P+I: $725.17/mo
15yr interest rate: 2.115%
15yr monthly P+I: $1099.75/mo

Image
https://imgur.com/nAN8mig

This is for a condo which I only plan to keep for another 3 years or so. Is it worth it? I'm not so concerned with the monthly payment. My goal is to maximize equity/interest saved.
Anyone? I think the 15yr makes more sense and the closing costs seem pretty reasonable
Trust_In_TylerDurden
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Trust_In_TylerDurden »

hey Guys, couple of questions on better.com:

----<< Better matched Bankrate screenshot rate of: 2.6% . I locked in for 30 days and I am on day 15 or so. Now, their advertised rate has fallen on Bankrate to 2.5. How do I negotiate with them? Will they bring the rate down if i send them a screenshot? what if my loan officer is tough and just says no? can i go to someone else at better?

----<< I told better from beginning that I have a new job and will get my paycheck on a certain date. Based on that day, they locked the rate. now, they are saying I have to pay for a rate lock extension. i have disclosed everything to them, but not sure why i have to pay extra. how can i argue back to them? how do i negotiate?

cheers,
ty
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by LadyGeek »

^^^ Trust_In_TylerDurden - You had a duplicate post earlier in this thread, which I've removed.
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atx1202
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by atx1202 »

tj wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:14 am
atx1202 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:23 pm Hi, I locked my rate for 30yr fixed loan with better last Wednesday and the rates today are much lower.

Has anyone been able to request a price match (bankrate screenshot) after the rate has been locked?

Note: I haven’t had an appraisal yet (tomorrow) and in theory can cancel the application and put in a new one, but would rather avoid the hassle if I can.
I can't imagine why you'd be abel to change it after you lock. That is one of the risks. My rate is 30bps higher than it needs to be because I got unlucky with a lock. It happens. If you can cancel without paying anything, do it.
I agree, was just trying to see if it was even possible.

I do have a competing Loan Estimate with $1000 more credit than the locked rate table with better. Does anyone know if better price matches competing LE's after rate lock?
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anon_investor
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by anon_investor »

Trust_In_TylerDurden wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:14 am hey Guys, couple of questions on better.com:

----<< Better matched Bankrate screenshot rate of: 2.6% . I locked in for 30 days and I am on day 15 or so. Now, their advertised rate has fallen on Bankrate to 2.5. How do I negotiate with them? Will they bring the rate down if i send them a screenshot? what if my loan officer is tough and just says no? can i go to someone else at better?

----<< I told better from beginning that I have a new job and will get my paycheck on a certain date. Based on that day, they locked the rate. now, they are saying I have to pay for a rate lock extension. i have disclosed everything to them, but not sure why i have to pay extra. how can i argue back to them? how do i negotiate?

cheers,
ty
Can't you just tell them you won't pay for the rate lock extension, and then ask for the new lower rate and lock that?
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

atx1202 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:40 pm
tj wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:14 am
atx1202 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:23 pm Hi, I locked my rate for 30yr fixed loan with better last Wednesday and the rates today are much lower.

Has anyone been able to request a price match (bankrate screenshot) after the rate has been locked?

Note: I haven’t had an appraisal yet (tomorrow) and in theory can cancel the application and put in a new one, but would rather avoid the hassle if I can.
I can't imagine why you'd be abel to change it after you lock. That is one of the risks. My rate is 30bps higher than it needs to be because I got unlucky with a lock. It happens. If you can cancel without paying anything, do it.
I agree, was just trying to see if it was even possible.

I do have a competing Loan Estimate with $1000 more credit than the locked rate table with better. Does anyone know if better price matches competing LE's after rate lock?
Why would they do that? I assume you're getting the $2k Amex offer, so they already have a better net cost for you.
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