Refinance Mega Thread

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heponly
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by heponly »

My Current 15 year fixed mortgage balance with Loandepot 301,000 is at 1.99% with 14 years remaining

Better's offer for 15 year fixed at 1.875% is :
Section A + B + C = $2160
Lender credit - $600
Amex offer = $2000

Based on the above calculation, the closing cost is almost zero.

Is it worth refinancing ?
Goal33
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

heponly wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:03 pm My Current 15 year fixed mortgage balance with Loandepot 301,000 is at 1.99% with 14 years remaining

Better's offer for 15 year fixed at 1.875% is :
Section A + B + C = $2160
Lender credit - $600
Amex offer = $2000

Based on the above calculation, the closing cost is almost zero.

Is it worth refinancing ?
Yes
vtg
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by vtg »

[/quote]
You did. In each subsequent year, what's in your escrow reserves will play a role in the calculations for your monthly escrow payment. But for the initial year, what was on your closing disclosures is what you would be paying.
[/quote]

[/quote]

They collected so much cuz taxes are due soon :)
[/quote]

Both comments spot on thanks much
karwosts
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by karwosts »

heponly wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:03 pm My Current 15 year fixed mortgage balance with Loandepot 301,000 is at 1.99% with 14 years remaining

Better's offer for 15 year fixed at 1.875% is :
Section A + B + C = $2160
Lender credit - $600
Amex offer = $2000

Based on the above calculation, the closing cost is almost zero.

Is it worth refinancing ?
Check out box E as well, those should be included in closing costs for the purposes of deciding if you want to refinance or not.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

karwosts wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:57 am
heponly wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:03 pm My Current 15 year fixed mortgage balance with Loandepot 301,000 is at 1.99% with 14 years remaining

Better's offer for 15 year fixed at 1.875% is :
Section A + B + C = $2160
Lender credit - $600
Amex offer = $2000

Based on the above calculation, the closing cost is almost zero.

Is it worth refinancing ?
Check out box E as well, those should be included in closing costs for the purposes of deciding if you want to refinance or not.
Indeed. Now when comparing lender to lender, E will end up the same between them, so if it is easier to compare A + B + C because they may overestimate E initially, that makes sense. But as karwosts points out, when deciding if to refi at all, you need to account for E.

In NC, this won’t impact the decision as it is $64. In FL, it can easily be around $1k. In NY, it can be thousands. So that will make quite the difference in some states or effectively be a non-issue in others.
DMB41
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

I'll be closing on a new construction home in a little over 60 days now hopefully and plan on using Better. Two questions so far:

1) Is it possible to get the appraisal fee ($550) waived on a new construction home? How is the ability to get that fee waived determined? I see some people getting it waived and others not. Does that vary by lender or is it a set rule/regulation?

2) What's the BH opinion on Owner's Title Insurance ($512 via Better, will shop around)? Google seems to suggest it's a good idea, even on new construction, but curious to hear other opinions. Not sure I've seen much discussion about that in this thread.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

DMB41 wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:23 pm I'll be closing on a new construction home in a little over 60 days now hopefully and plan on using Better. Two questions so far:

1) Is it possible to get the appraisal fee ($550) waived on a new construction home? How is the ability to get that fee waived determined? I see some people getting it waived and others not. Does that vary by lender or is it a set rule/regulation?

2) What's the BH opinion on Owner's Title Insurance ($512 via Better, will shop around)? Google seems to suggest it's a good idea, even on new construction, but curious to hear other opinions. Not sure I've seen much discussion about that in this thread.
1. Appraisal requirements are waived by the Fannie Mae underwriting system if it finds a record in its database that would support the valuation entered. For new construction, I would be surprised if the appraisal is waived.

However, how an appraisal is conducted on new construction is something I’m unfamiliar with and the fee may be different or even waived with alternative documentation used for the appraisal (perhaps the builder’s evaluation?).

2. I would NEVER buy a property without owner’s title insurance. The reason why you don’t see it mentioned often is because it is valid for the tenure of your ownership and doesn’t need to be reissued when you refinance. It is the lender’s policy that is tied to a specific mortgage, so if you refi twice, one day apart, you still need two policies. Meanwhile, the owner’s policy would remain unchanged and in full force throughout.

That said, I know there are differing opinions on whether an owner’s title insurance policy is needed, especially with new construction. Well, as a reference point, my ex bought new construction over a decade ago. Then about 7 years into ownership, learned that the house was built right on the property line and the a/c and other side items were over the line. This involved either moving the equipment, or negotiating a permanent encroachment on the neighbor’s property. The latter was done and I will let you guess as to who paid for having to fix a title defect (lack of excroachment) after purchase.
Mako52
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Mako52 »

For those that have refinanced with Loan Depot, do you find their escrow requirements a bit excessive? They want 8 months of property taxes and 5 months of insurance at closing.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Mako52 wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:01 pm For those that have refinanced with Loan Depot, do you find their escrow requirements a bit excessive? They want 8 months of property taxes and 5 months of insurance at closing.
And when are each of these due? Also note that if you are looking at a loan estimate, many lenders will overestimate that until you towards closing and they prepare closing disclosures.
Mako52
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Mako52 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:08 pm
Mako52 wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:01 pm For those that have refinanced with Loan Depot, do you find their escrow requirements a bit excessive? They want 8 months of property taxes and 5 months of insurance at closing.
And when are each of these due? Also note that if you are looking at a loan estimate, many lenders will overestimate that until you towards closing and they prepare closing disclosures.
Their latest disclosure shows a first P&I payment of December 1, a month after 1/2 of the year's county personal property taxes are paid from escrow. Our insurance policy renews every August.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Mako52 wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:22 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:08 pm
Mako52 wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 4:01 pm For those that have refinanced with Loan Depot, do you find their escrow requirements a bit excessive? They want 8 months of property taxes and 5 months of insurance at closing.
And when are each of these due? Also note that if you are looking at a loan estimate, many lenders will overestimate that until you towards closing and they prepare closing disclosures.
Their latest disclosure shows a first P&I payment of December 1, a month after 1/2 of the year's county personal property taxes are paid from escrow. Our insurance policy renews every August.
For insurance, they will have 9 months of payments to add to 5 months collected up front, to net 14 months. That is right in line with most lenders wanting a two month cushion for any increases in premiums.

For property taxes, do they have 6 months work in Section F and 2 months worth in Section G? If so, then they are collecting a two month cushion plus the payment to be made in November by the settlement agent (F is settlement agent, G is lender). If all 8 months are in G, then they seem to be collecting based on the year. 2 month cushion, 6 months of payments, plus the 5 months they will get monthly prior to the next 1/2 being paid. If it is this latter case, you might want to ask them to keep in mind the taxes are paid semi-annually instead of annually and 1/2 will be paid in November, thereby not requiring such a large reserve in escrow.
DMB41
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:35 pm 1. Appraisal requirements are waived by the Fannie Mae underwriting system if it finds a record in its database that would support the valuation entered. For new construction, I would be surprised if the appraisal is waived.

However, how an appraisal is conducted on new construction is something I’m unfamiliar with and the fee may be different or even waived with alternative documentation used for the appraisal (perhaps the builder’s evaluation?).

2. I would NEVER buy a property without owner’s title insurance. The reason why you don’t see it mentioned often is because it is valid for the tenure of your ownership and doesn’t need to be reissued when you refinance. It is the lender’s policy that is tied to a specific mortgage, so if you refi twice, one day apart, you still need two policies. Meanwhile, the owner’s policy would remain unchanged and in full force throughout.

That said, I know there are differing opinions on whether an owner’s title insurance policy is needed, especially with new construction. Well, as a reference point, my ex bought new construction over a decade ago. Then about 7 years into ownership, learned that the house was built right on the property line and the a/c and other side items were over the line. This involved either moving the equipment, or negotiating a permanent encroachment on the neighbor’s property. The latter was done and I will let you guess as to who paid for having to fix a title defect (lack of excroachment) after purchase.
Thanks for the helpful information, as always, Brandon.
heponly
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by heponly »

BrandonBogle wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:32 am
karwosts wrote: Tue Oct 05, 2021 10:57 am
heponly wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:03 pm My Current 15 year fixed mortgage balance with Loandepot 301,000 is at 1.99% with 14 years remaining

Better's offer for 15 year fixed at 1.875% is :
Section A + B + C = $2160
Lender credit - $600
Amex offer = $2000

Based on the above calculation, the closing cost is almost zero.

Is it worth refinancing ?
Check out box E as well, those should be included in closing costs for the purposes of deciding if you want to refinance or not.
Indeed. Now when comparing lender to lender, E will end up the same between them, so if it is easier to compare A + B + C because they may overestimate E initially, that makes sense. But as karwosts points out, when deciding if to refi at all, you need to account for E.

In NC, this won’t impact the decision as it is $64. In FL, it can easily be around $1k. In NY, it can be thousands. So that will make quite the difference in some states or effectively be a non-issue in others.

Section E is $345 and is within the threshold. Thank you everyone for responding
Trust_In_TylerDurden
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Trust_In_TylerDurden »

hey gang,

two questions on refinancing:

Do i need to be present in the USA to close on our refinancing Or can i give wife who is on the title power of attorney? she plans to come back anyways on december 15th... i don't want to go back to USA.. otherwise, it's a long trip for me just to sign. What is the process here to get this done remotely? I am the borrower on the loan. are some mortgage provider better than others?

I also have an offer starting November 1st and will get my first paycheck on November 15th. How many paychecks do I need?

cheers!
Ty
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Trust_In_TylerDurden wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:41 pm I also have an offer starting November 1st and will get my first paycheck on November 15th. How many paychecks do I need?

cheers!
Ty
Some lenders will accept the offer letter in lieu of paychecks, though they may also set it up so closing is after you start so they can confirm employment at the new company prior to closing. It will be very YMMV.

As to your question, generally lenders want to see the two most recent paychecks.
Crazy_Aussie
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Crazy_Aussie »

Has anyone used PrimeChoice Funding, are they competent/legit?
They have a competitive refinance offer for Texas, even compared to Better with the $2K Amex credit.

Does the below quoted post indicate that Provident Funding is the same company as PrimeChoice?

I searched for PrimeChoice and didn't find any other posts, but did find some posts with favorable/okay opinions of Provident.
Puffy wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 4:14 pm

Is the LTV high? Have you tried smaller lenders, like those on the findamortgagebroker site? Also, check Provident Funding/ PrimeChoice Funding. They are in CA but I think they work with FL too. Good luck.
GoldenFinch
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GoldenFinch »

Does anybody have any recommendations about how to best receive money from Better mortgage? Check or wire transfer are the options.
Mako
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Mako »

GoldenFinch wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:58 am Does anybody have any recommendations about how to best receive money from Better mortgage? Check or wire transfer are the options.
I did check and it was fed ex’d to me like a day after funding.
GoldenFinch
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GoldenFinch »

^^^Thank you Mako!
MrJedi
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

GoldenFinch wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:58 am Does anybody have any recommendations about how to best receive money from Better mortgage? Check or wire transfer are the options.
I agree with Mako.

Many banks charge a fee to receive a wire. In my experience checks from a mortgage loan closing is typically sent overnight with tracking, etc. so I have no problem opting for a check to deposit for free.
GoldenFinch
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GoldenFinch »

MrJedi wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:20 am
GoldenFinch wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:58 am Does anybody have any recommendations about how to best receive money from Better mortgage? Check or wire transfer are the options.
I agree with Mako.

Many banks charge a fee to receive a wire. In my experience checks from a mortgage loan closing is typically sent overnight with tracking, etc. so I have no problem opting for a check to deposit for free.
If it’s FedEx, no problem. Regular mail would make me nervous. I’ll get the check. Thank you both!
mervinj7
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mervinj7 »

GoldenFinch wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:58 am Does anybody have any recommendations about how to best receive money from Better mortgage? Check or wire transfer are the options.
I almost always use wire transfers for all real estate transactions but they are free at Fidelity.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

MrJedi wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 8:20 am
GoldenFinch wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:58 am Does anybody have any recommendations about how to best receive money from Better mortgage? Check or wire transfer are the options.
I agree with Mako.

Many banks charge a fee to receive a wire. In my experience checks from a mortgage loan closing is typically sent overnight with tracking, etc. so I have no problem opting for a check to deposit for free.
This has been my choice as well. All 6 of my refis have sent me the funds via check, even the one that sent me six figures. They all seemingly got sent the same day my old mortgage was paid off via FedEx overnight.
DMB41
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

Is the general idea to choose the lowest rate that just barely gets you to a no-cost loan or is it worth it to take a higher rate to get even more money back? How do you balance the rate vs points/credits game? This a new loan FYI, not a refi.

For example, here are my current rate offers from Better (before Bankrate match which is only a few $100 cheaper currently):
2.500% - $7179 points
2.625% - $4137 points
2.750% - $916 points

2.875% - $1641 credit
3.000% - $3745 credit

My current plan is to take the 2.875% rate and corresponding credits. I will be taking advantage of the Amex $2k offer as well. My current loan costs are:
A - $0
B - $614
C - $1358 (currently shopping around for lower title costs)
E - $730
Total: $2702

Subtract the $1394 lender credit and $2k Amex credit and I end up in the green by $992. Is it worth it to go to 3.0% for and additional $2k? How do I do the math on whether that is "worth it" or is that more of a personal preference? Since I am willing to refi again in the near future like many of you have been doing, then maybe taking the 3.0% rate and credit would be better since the interest on the additional 0.125% is negligible compared to the $2k I would be gaining in the near term. Thoughts?

Also, looks like Radian doesn't do title stuff for Alabama. Any suggestions for a title company to get quotes from for Alabama? I'm currently reaching out to Amrock.
Last edited by DMB41 on Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
TCG236
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by TCG236 »

DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:26 am My current plan is to take the 2.875% rate and corresponding credits. I will be taking advantage of the Amex $2k offer as well. My current loan costs are:
A - $0
B - $614
C - $1358 (currently shopping around for lower title costs)
E - $730
Total: $2402
There's something wrong with the numbers. A+B+C+E=$2,702, not $2,402

Calculate monthly P&I for each scenario.
You get only $228 more credits going from 3% to 3.125%. It's a no-go unless you refinance again in 6-9 months.
You get $2,078 more credits going from 2.875% to 3%. Divide $2,078 by (P&I at 3% - P&I at 2.875%). This gives you the number of months it'll take to recoup the lost credits by going with 2.875%.
You get $2,920 more credits going from 2.75% to 2.875%. Divide $2,920 by (P&I at 2.875% - P&I at 2.75%). This gives you the number of months it'll take to recoup the lost credits by going with 2.75%.
TCG236
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by TCG236 »

Also try "Zillow Mortgage Rate Comparison". Sometimes the offers are better than Bankrate's.
DMB41
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

TCG236 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:03 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:26 am My current plan is to take the 2.875% rate and corresponding credits. I will be taking advantage of the Amex $2k offer as well. My current loan costs are:
A - $0
B - $614
C - $1358 (currently shopping around for lower title costs)
E - $730
Total: $2402
There's something wrong with the numbers. A+B+C+E=$2,702, not $2,402

Calculate monthly P&I for each scenario.
You get only $228 more credits going from 3% to 3.125%. It's a no-go unless you refinance again in 6-9 months.
You get $2,078 more credits going from 2.875% to 3%. Divide $2,078 by (P&I at 3% - P&I at 2.875%). This gives you the number of months it'll take to recoup the lost credits by going with 2.875%.
You get $2,920 more credits going from 2.75% to 2.875%. Divide $2,920 by (P&I at 2.875% - P&I at 2.75%). This gives you the number of months it'll take to recoup the lost credits by going with 2.75%.
Typo on that total cost, thanks for the catch. I just updated the number above too as my rate table just updated this morning favorably for me. The 3.125% rate is gone, but like you said, wasn't worth it anyway. I'll do the math you mentioned on the new numbers and see how they look. The longer the number of months, the less it is "worth it" right?
Last edited by DMB41 on Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:10 am
TCG236 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:03 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:26 am My current plan is to take the 2.875% rate and corresponding credits. I will be taking advantage of the Amex $2k offer as well. My current loan costs are:
A - $0
B - $614
C - $1358 (currently shopping around for lower title costs)
E - $730
Total: $2402
There's something wrong with the numbers. A+B+C+E=$2,702, not $2,402

Calculate monthly P&I for each scenario.
You get only $228 more credits going from 3% to 3.125%. It's a no-go unless you refinance again in 6-9 months.
You get $2,078 more credits going from 2.875% to 3%. Divide $2,078 by (P&I at 3% - P&I at 2.875%). This gives you the number of months it'll take to recoup the lost credits by going with 2.875%.
You get $2,920 more credits going from 2.75% to 2.875%. Divide $2,920 by (P&I at 2.875% - P&I at 2.75%). This gives you the number of months it'll take to recoup the lost credits by going with 2.75%.
Typo on that total cost, thanks for the catch. I just updated the number above too as my rate table just updated this morning favorably for me. The 3.125% rate is gone, but like you said, wasn't worth it anyway. I'll do the math you mentioned on the new numbers and see how they look. Thanks for the feedback.
I agree with TCG. My general rule of thumb is to calculate total cost and if I can get half of the “savings” up front, I do it. Now granted, I’m doing 15 year loans, so if it takes over 7 years for the increased cost to become worse than the up front savings, then it is worth taking the higher rate for me.

But also note, my mortgage is small. So over 15 years, each 0.125% only costs me roughly $3k, but I typically get $1,800 or so in extra lender credits going up the rate table, to a limit (I wouldn’t make the equivalent jump of your 3% to 3.125%).
TCG236
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by TCG236 »

DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:26 am The longer the number of months, the less it is "worth it" right?
Yes, the higher the number (of months), the odds are higher you should take the larger credits/higher rate. Basically, you're asking yourself how likely it'll be for you to pay off this loan (refinance, sell house, etc.) within this number of months. So it's both personal and dependent on future rates.
DMB41
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:16 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:10 am
TCG236 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:03 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:26 am My current plan is to take the 2.875% rate and corresponding credits. I will be taking advantage of the Amex $2k offer as well. My current loan costs are:
A - $0
B - $614
C - $1358 (currently shopping around for lower title costs)
E - $730
Total: $2402
There's something wrong with the numbers. A+B+C+E=$2,702, not $2,402

Calculate monthly P&I for each scenario.
You get only $228 more credits going from 3% to 3.125%. It's a no-go unless you refinance again in 6-9 months.
You get $2,078 more credits going from 2.875% to 3%. Divide $2,078 by (P&I at 3% - P&I at 2.875%). This gives you the number of months it'll take to recoup the lost credits by going with 2.875%.
You get $2,920 more credits going from 2.75% to 2.875%. Divide $2,920 by (P&I at 2.875% - P&I at 2.75%). This gives you the number of months it'll take to recoup the lost credits by going with 2.75%.
Typo on that total cost, thanks for the catch. I just updated the number above too as my rate table just updated this morning favorably for me. The 3.125% rate is gone, but like you said, wasn't worth it anyway. I'll do the math you mentioned on the new numbers and see how they look. Thanks for the feedback.
I agree with TCG. My general rule of thumb is to calculate total cost and if I can get half of the “savings” up front, I do it. Now granted, I’m doing 15 year loans, so if it takes over 7 years for the increased cost to become worse than the up front savings, then it is worth taking the higher rate for me.

But also note, my mortgage is small. So over 15 years, each 0.125% only costs me roughly $3k, but I typically get $1,800 or so in extra lender credits going up the rate table, to a limit (I wouldn’t make the equivalent jump of your 3% to 3.125%).
TCG236 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:37 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:26 am The longer the number of months, the less it is "worth it" right?
Yes, the higher the number (of months), the odds are higher you should take the larger credits/higher rate. Basically, you're asking yourself how likely it'll be for you to pay off this loan (refinance, sell house, etc.) within this number of months. So it's both personal and dependent on future rates.
Thanks guys. I did those calculations and as I go up in interest rate (and up in credits/down in points) on my rate table, I go down in months needed to recoup my lost credits with the difference between 3.0% and 2.875% giving me the lowest months at 84. Looking at what Brandon said, each 0.125% cost me roughly $9k on my 30-yr so by your rule of thumb, $4500+ in credits would be ideal, correct? Looks like the highest rate (3%) gets me pretty close and with the $2k AMEX credit, gets me well over that.
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BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:51 am Thanks guys. I did those calculations and as I go up in interest rate (and up in credits/down in points) on my rate table, I go down in months needed to recoup my lost credits with the difference between 3.0% and 2.875% giving me the lowest months at 84. Looking at what Brandon said, each 0.125% cost me roughly $9k on my 30-yr so by your rule of thumb, $4500+ in credits would be ideal, correct? Looks like the highest rate (3%) gets me pretty close and with the $2k AMEX credit, gets me well over that.
From the prior day’s numbers, 2.875% vs. 3% is a $2k difference. That is pushing it. 2.75% vs. 2.875% being a nearly $3k difference is better.

My rule of thumb is probably overly conservative on a 30-year loan, but then most people don’t keep a 30-year to term and you already said you aren’t afraid of doing another refi. Especially given the last tidbit, either 2.875% or 3% is likely the one I would pick to then refi again to a lower rate.
DMB41
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:57 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:51 am Thanks guys. I did those calculations and as I go up in interest rate (and up in credits/down in points) on my rate table, I go down in months needed to recoup my lost credits with the difference between 3.0% and 2.875% giving me the lowest months at 84. Looking at what Brandon said, each 0.125% cost me roughly $9k on my 30-yr so by your rule of thumb, $4500+ in credits would be ideal, correct? Looks like the highest rate (3%) gets me pretty close and with the $2k AMEX credit, gets me well over that.
From the prior day’s numbers, 2.875% vs. 3% is a $2k difference. That is pushing it. 2.75% vs. 2.875% being a nearly $3k difference is better.

My rule of thumb is probably overly conservative on a 30-year loan, but then most people don’t keep a 30-year to term and you already said you aren’t afraid of doing another refi. Especially given the last tidbit, either 2.875% or 3% is likely the one I would pick to then refi again to a lower rate.
Ok sounds good. Since I don't mind doing a refi in the future, whether near or far, would sticking with a higher rate be somewhat better so that I could refi to a lower rate later? I believe I saw discussion earlier in this thread of it being difficult or even impossible to refi at the same rate do to some rule or regulation maybe? For example, if I chose the lowest rate available to me at 2.5% rate, that essentially leaves me no room to refi to a lower rate in the future since finding rates less than 2.5% on 30-yr loans are rare, even during great times to refi like right now, correct? What reasons would there be to refi to a higher rate other than to maybe make some money of lender credits? This assumes a lot I am sure, such as rates staying low enough to where refinancing at a lower rate in the future makes sense, and I'm probably getting to far in the weeds here, but I like to learn :D .

EDIT - Also, Amrock got back to me with a quote for title costs. The quoted me for section C, section E and section H (Owner's Title Insurance). They beat Better for Section C by $400, are equal for section E and twice the price and for section H. Can I pick and chose who to use for each section? Amrock for C and maybe E and Better for section H or is one or the other for all the sections?
karwosts
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by karwosts »

DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:10 am
Ok sounds good. Since I don't mind doing a refi in the future, whether near or far, would sticking with a higher rate be somewhat better so that I could refi to a lower rate later? I believe I saw discussion earlier in this thread of it being difficult or even impossible to refi at the same rate do to some rule or regulation maybe? For example, if I chose the lowest rate available to me at 2.5% rate, that essentially leaves me no room to refi to a lower rate in the future since finding rates less than 2.5% on 30-yr loans are rare, even during great times to refi like right now, correct? What reasons would there be to refi to a higher rate other than to maybe make some money of lender credits? This assumes a lot I am sure, such as rates staying low enough to where refinancing at a lower rate in the future makes sense, and I'm probably getting to far in the weeds here, but I like to learn :D .
I think the rules vary by states, and by type of loan. I think the term you're looking for is that refinance must provide "Net Tangible Benefit", in some cases. I haven't vetted this table, but it looks like it might have interesting information:

https://compliance.docutech.com/wp-cont ... 018.02.pdf

I just closed refinancing (went from 2.975% -> 3%) at Better and nobody said a peep about this being a problem. My loan was a jumbo though, so the rules may be different than conforming loans, not sure. Probably depends on the state.
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Cash is King
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cash is King »

DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:10 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:57 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:51 am Thanks guys. I did those calculations and as I go up in interest rate (and up in credits/down in points) on my rate table, I go down in months needed to recoup my lost credits with the difference between 3.0% and 2.875% giving me the lowest months at 84. Looking at what Brandon said, each 0.125% cost me roughly $9k on my 30-yr so by your rule of thumb, $4500+ in credits would be ideal, correct? Looks like the highest rate (3%) gets me pretty close and with the $2k AMEX credit, gets me well over that.
From the prior day’s numbers, 2.875% vs. 3% is a $2k difference. That is pushing it. 2.75% vs. 2.875% being a nearly $3k difference is better.

My rule of thumb is probably overly conservative on a 30-year loan, but then most people don’t keep a 30-year to term and you already said you aren’t afraid of doing another refi. Especially given the last tidbit, either 2.875% or 3% is likely the one I would pick to then refi again to a lower rate.
Ok sounds good. Since I don't mind doing a refi in the future, whether near or far, would sticking with a higher rate be somewhat better so that I could refi to a lower rate later? I believe I saw discussion earlier in this thread of it being difficult or even impossible to refi at the same rate do to some rule or regulation maybe? For example, if I chose the lowest rate available to me at 2.5% rate, that essentially leaves me no room to refi to a lower rate in the future since finding rates less than 2.5% on 30-yr loans are rare, even during great times to refi like right now, correct? What reasons would there be to refi to a higher rate other than to maybe make some money of lender credits? This assumes a lot I am sure, such as rates staying low enough to where refinancing at a lower rate in the future makes sense, and I'm probably getting to far in the weeds here, but I like to learn :D .

EDIT - Also, Amrock got back to me with a quote for title costs. The quoted me for section C, section E and section H (Owner's Title Insurance). They beat Better for Section C by $400, are equal for section E and twice the price and for section H. Can I pick and chose who to use for each section? Amrock for C and maybe E and Better for section H or is one or the other for all the sections?
It should indicate on the closing disclosure which services you can shop. I agree with others that 2.875% is probably the best option and might let you refi at lower rate later. FWIW, I did refinance last March 20yr @ 3.0%. Today, I'm signing another refi at 2.375% for 20yrs. Both refi's have been no escrow , appraisal waiver, and zero to $197.00 in closing costs.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

Cash is King wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:53 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:10 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:57 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:51 am Thanks guys. I did those calculations and as I go up in interest rate (and up in credits/down in points) on my rate table, I go down in months needed to recoup my lost credits with the difference between 3.0% and 2.875% giving me the lowest months at 84. Looking at what Brandon said, each 0.125% cost me roughly $9k on my 30-yr so by your rule of thumb, $4500+ in credits would be ideal, correct? Looks like the highest rate (3%) gets me pretty close and with the $2k AMEX credit, gets me well over that.
From the prior day’s numbers, 2.875% vs. 3% is a $2k difference. That is pushing it. 2.75% vs. 2.875% being a nearly $3k difference is better.

My rule of thumb is probably overly conservative on a 30-year loan, but then most people don’t keep a 30-year to term and you already said you aren’t afraid of doing another refi. Especially given the last tidbit, either 2.875% or 3% is likely the one I would pick to then refi again to a lower rate.
Ok sounds good. Since I don't mind doing a refi in the future, whether near or far, would sticking with a higher rate be somewhat better so that I could refi to a lower rate later? I believe I saw discussion earlier in this thread of it being difficult or even impossible to refi at the same rate do to some rule or regulation maybe? For example, if I chose the lowest rate available to me at 2.5% rate, that essentially leaves me no room to refi to a lower rate in the future since finding rates less than 2.5% on 30-yr loans are rare, even during great times to refi like right now, correct? What reasons would there be to refi to a higher rate other than to maybe make some money of lender credits? This assumes a lot I am sure, such as rates staying low enough to where refinancing at a lower rate in the future makes sense, and I'm probably getting to far in the weeds here, but I like to learn :D .

EDIT - Also, Amrock got back to me with a quote for title costs. The quoted me for section C, section E and section H (Owner's Title Insurance). They beat Better for Section C by $400, are equal for section E and twice the price and for section H. Can I pick and chose who to use for each section? Amrock for C and maybe E and Better for section H or is one or the other for all the sections?
It should indicate on the closing disclosure which services you can shop. I agree with others that 2.875% is probably the best option and might let you refi at lower rate later. FWIW, I did refinance last March 20yr @ 3.0%. Today, I'm signing another refi at 2.375% for 20yrs. Both refi's have been no escrow , appraisal waiver, and zero to $197.00 in closing costs.
Thanks for the info. I know I can shop for section C as it explicitly states that on the LE from Better. Title Owners Insurance I figured I could shop for, but I didn't realize section E was something that could be shopped for. Maybe it can't, but Amrock did provide a quote for it.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by lane7068 »

Just completed a refi with Better.com. 2.375% on 2nd home, 15 yr. Took about a month from start to complete. very simple. Would recommend.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by grogu »

karwosts wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:31 am
I just closed refinancing (went from 2.975% -> 3%) at Better and nobody said a peep about this being a problem. My loan was a jumbo though, so the rules may be different than conforming loans, not sure. Probably depends on the state.
So I assume you refinanced just for the $2k credit (and any other net credits), at a cost of 0.025%? Same loan term? No one at Better even asked you why you were increasing your interest rate?
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Cash is King
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cash is King »

DMB41 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:08 am
Cash is King wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:53 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:10 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:57 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:51 am Thanks guys. I did those calculations and as I go up in interest rate (and up in credits/down in points) on my rate table, I go down in months needed to recoup my lost credits with the difference between 3.0% and 2.875% giving me the lowest months at 84. Looking at what Brandon said, each 0.125% cost me roughly $9k on my 30-yr so by your rule of thumb, $4500+ in credits would be ideal, correct? Looks like the highest rate (3%) gets me pretty close and with the $2k AMEX credit, gets me well over that.
From the prior day’s numbers, 2.875% vs. 3% is a $2k difference. That is pushing it. 2.75% vs. 2.875% being a nearly $3k difference is better.

My rule of thumb is probably overly conservative on a 30-year loan, but then most people don’t keep a 30-year to term and you already said you aren’t afraid of doing another refi. Especially given the last tidbit, either 2.875% or 3% is likely the one I would pick to then refi again to a lower rate.
Ok sounds good. Since I don't mind doing a refi in the future, whether near or far, would sticking with a higher rate be somewhat better so that I could refi to a lower rate later? I believe I saw discussion earlier in this thread of it being difficult or even impossible to refi at the same rate do to some rule or regulation maybe? For example, if I chose the lowest rate available to me at 2.5% rate, that essentially leaves me no room to refi to a lower rate in the future since finding rates less than 2.5% on 30-yr loans are rare, even during great times to refi like right now, correct? What reasons would there be to refi to a higher rate other than to maybe make some money of lender credits? This assumes a lot I am sure, such as rates staying low enough to where refinancing at a lower rate in the future makes sense, and I'm probably getting to far in the weeds here, but I like to learn :D .

EDIT - Also, Amrock got back to me with a quote for title costs. The quoted me for section C, section E and section H (Owner's Title Insurance). They beat Better for Section C by $400, are equal for section E and twice the price and for section H. Can I pick and chose who to use for each section? Amrock for C and maybe E and Better for section H or is one or the other for all the sections?
It should indicate on the closing disclosure which services you can shop. I agree with others that 2.875% is probably the best option and might let you refi at lower rate later. FWIW, I did refinance last March 20yr @ 3.0%. Today, I'm signing another refi at 2.375% for 20yrs. Both refi's have been no escrow , appraisal waiver, and zero to $197.00 in closing costs.
Thanks for the info. I know I can shop for section C as it explicitly states that on the LE from Better. Title Owners Insurance I figured I could shop for, but I didn't realize section E was something that could be shopped for. Maybe it can't, but Amrock did provide a quote for it.
In most refi cases, the only item under section E is recording fees. You may have other taxes if required in your local. Amrock is who you chose for title services, so they provided a quote to record the loan. I doubt the recording fees Amrock provided are negotiable but it never hurts to ask.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

I just completed a refi with Better where my term (30 yrs) and rate (2.5%) were exactly the same as my existing loan. I specifically asked my LO at Better if that'd be a problem, and he reassured me that it won't be, and it wasn't. I pocketed $2K AmEx credit as a result plus a little bit from closing costs due to lender credits.

FWIW, my monthly payment amount did decrease by about $50 due to lower principal than the original loan. I don't know if that's what was considered enough of a "net tangible benefit" to justify the loan.
grogu wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:43 am
karwosts wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:31 am
I just closed refinancing (went from 2.975% -> 3%) at Better and nobody said a peep about this being a problem. My loan was a jumbo though, so the rules may be different than conforming loans, not sure. Probably depends on the state.
So I assume you refinanced just for the $2k credit (and any other net credits), at a cost of 0.025%? Same loan term? No one at Better even asked you why you were increasing your interest rate?
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

Cash is King wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:59 am
DMB41 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:08 am
Cash is King wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:53 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:10 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:57 am

From the prior day’s numbers, 2.875% vs. 3% is a $2k difference. That is pushing it. 2.75% vs. 2.875% being a nearly $3k difference is better.

My rule of thumb is probably overly conservative on a 30-year loan, but then most people don’t keep a 30-year to term and you already said you aren’t afraid of doing another refi. Especially given the last tidbit, either 2.875% or 3% is likely the one I would pick to then refi again to a lower rate.
Ok sounds good. Since I don't mind doing a refi in the future, whether near or far, would sticking with a higher rate be somewhat better so that I could refi to a lower rate later? I believe I saw discussion earlier in this thread of it being difficult or even impossible to refi at the same rate do to some rule or regulation maybe? For example, if I chose the lowest rate available to me at 2.5% rate, that essentially leaves me no room to refi to a lower rate in the future since finding rates less than 2.5% on 30-yr loans are rare, even during great times to refi like right now, correct? What reasons would there be to refi to a higher rate other than to maybe make some money of lender credits? This assumes a lot I am sure, such as rates staying low enough to where refinancing at a lower rate in the future makes sense, and I'm probably getting to far in the weeds here, but I like to learn :D .

EDIT - Also, Amrock got back to me with a quote for title costs. The quoted me for section C, section E and section H (Owner's Title Insurance). They beat Better for Section C by $400, are equal for section E and twice the price and for section H. Can I pick and chose who to use for each section? Amrock for C and maybe E and Better for section H or is one or the other for all the sections?
It should indicate on the closing disclosure which services you can shop. I agree with others that 2.875% is probably the best option and might let you refi at lower rate later. FWIW, I did refinance last March 20yr @ 3.0%. Today, I'm signing another refi at 2.375% for 20yrs. Both refi's have been no escrow , appraisal waiver, and zero to $197.00 in closing costs.
Thanks for the info. I know I can shop for section C as it explicitly states that on the LE from Better. Title Owners Insurance I figured I could shop for, but I didn't realize section E was something that could be shopped for. Maybe it can't, but Amrock did provide a quote for it.
In most refi cases, the only item under section E is recording fees. You may have other taxes if required in your local. Amrock is who you chose for title services, so they provided a quote to record the loan. I doubt the recording fees Amrock provided are negotiable but it never hurts to ask.
Yea, it's only recording fees in Section E. However, my question wasn't about whether or not the price was negotiable, it was whether or not I could pick and choose which company to use for each section. For example, use Amrock for section C since they are cheaper and Better for Section E and Owners Title Insurance. Or do I have to use one title company for all title related costs?
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

DMB41 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:17 am Yea, it's only recording fees in Section E. However, my question wasn't about whether or not the price was negotiable, it was whether or not I could pick and choose which company to use for each section. For example, use Amrock for section C since they are cheaper and Better for Section E and Owners Title Insurance. Or do I have to use one title company for all title related costs?
Many companies initially overestimate the Section E fees because if they under quote it, they have to eat the cost. A poster had that happen a few months back where they were subject to transfer tax, but it wasn’t quoted and the company had to eat the $2,500.

Anyways, by the end of time the title report is done and closing disclosures are being prepared, the E fees should be corrected to actual cost and be consistent between any provider (absent a mistake).
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:21 am
DMB41 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:17 am Yea, it's only recording fees in Section E. However, my question wasn't about whether or not the price was negotiable, it was whether or not I could pick and choose which company to use for each section. For example, use Amrock for section C since they are cheaper and Better for Section E and Owners Title Insurance. Or do I have to use one title company for all title related costs?
Many companies initially overestimate the Section E fees because if they under quote it, they have to eat the cost. A poster had that happen a few months back where they were subject to transfer tax, but it wasn’t quoted and the company had to eat the $2,500.

Anyways, by the end of time the title report is done and closing disclosures are being prepared, the E fees should be corrected to actual cost and be consistent between any provider (absent a mistake).
Ok, I remember that to be the case now. So I shouldn't be comparing costs of section E since they will be the same in the end. So it looks like I only need to compare section C costs and the owners title insurance. Looks like I might need to see if I can negotiate those prices since Amrock is $400 cheaper on section C, but $700 more expensive on the title insurance. Thanks for the help!
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

DMB41 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:10 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:21 am
DMB41 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:17 am Yea, it's only recording fees in Section E. However, my question wasn't about whether or not the price was negotiable, it was whether or not I could pick and choose which company to use for each section. For example, use Amrock for section C since they are cheaper and Better for Section E and Owners Title Insurance. Or do I have to use one title company for all title related costs?
Many companies initially overestimate the Section E fees because if they under quote it, they have to eat the cost. A poster had that happen a few months back where they were subject to transfer tax, but it wasn’t quoted and the company had to eat the $2,500.

Anyways, by the end of time the title report is done and closing disclosures are being prepared, the E fees should be corrected to actual cost and be consistent between any provider (absent a mistake).
Ok, I remember that to be the case now. So I shouldn't be comparing costs of section E since they will be the same in the end. So it looks like I only need to compare section C costs and the owners title insurance. Looks like I might need to see if I can negotiate those prices since Amrock is $400 cheaper on section C, but $700 more expensive on the title insurance. Thanks for the help!
Does your state offer reinsurance discount rates? If so, are they predicated on using the same provider? It could be that Amrock quoted you the regular rate, but then it will be the discounted reissue rate when you move forward. You should be able to confirm that with Amrock.

In NC where I live, the reissue rate (50% off) is to any provider within 15 years of the last issuance of a title policy. That said, every time I refi with Better, the initial loan estimate quotes Better Settlement Services at the full rate until my title report comes back. This is also typically when my Section E cost drops from $100 estimated to $64 actual.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:16 am
DMB41 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:10 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:21 am
DMB41 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:17 am Yea, it's only recording fees in Section E. However, my question wasn't about whether or not the price was negotiable, it was whether or not I could pick and choose which company to use for each section. For example, use Amrock for section C since they are cheaper and Better for Section E and Owners Title Insurance. Or do I have to use one title company for all title related costs?
Many companies initially overestimate the Section E fees because if they under quote it, they have to eat the cost. A poster had that happen a few months back where they were subject to transfer tax, but it wasn’t quoted and the company had to eat the $2,500.

Anyways, by the end of time the title report is done and closing disclosures are being prepared, the E fees should be corrected to actual cost and be consistent between any provider (absent a mistake).
Ok, I remember that to be the case now. So I shouldn't be comparing costs of section E since they will be the same in the end. So it looks like I only need to compare section C costs and the owners title insurance. Looks like I might need to see if I can negotiate those prices since Amrock is $400 cheaper on section C, but $700 more expensive on the title insurance. Thanks for the help!
Does your state offer reinsurance discount rates? If so, are they predicated on using the same provider? It could be that Amrock quoted you the regular rate, but then it will be the discounted reissue rate when you move forward. You should be able to confirm that with Amrock.

In NC where I live, the reissue rate (50% off) is to any provider within 15 years of the last issuance of a title policy. That said, every time I refi with Better, the initial loan estimate quotes Better Settlement Services at the full rate until my title report comes back. This is also typically when my Section E cost drops from $100 estimated to $64 actual.
I was unsure so I did a Google search for "reissue rate Alabama" and it looks like Alabama does? It's not super clear to me, though. However, since this is a new loan on a new construction home, I'm not sure that discount would apply.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by karwosts »

grogu wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:43 am
karwosts wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:31 am
I just closed refinancing (went from 2.975% -> 3%) at Better and nobody said a peep about this being a problem. My loan was a jumbo though, so the rules may be different than conforming loans, not sure. Probably depends on the state.
So I assume you refinanced just for the $2k credit (and any other net credits), at a cost of 0.025%? Same loan term? No one at Better even asked you why you were increasing your interest rate?
Amex credit is $6K for Jumbo, plus another $8K in lender credits. But no they didn't ask, nor care. When I applied they gave a rate table with rates from 2% to 4%, and I chose 3%. The agent offered to help me walk through the options to understand them, but I declined and said I knew what I wanted.

I could have taken 4% loan for ~$30,000 in lender credits, but that seemed a bit too risky to me :shock:
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

DMB41 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:27 am I was unsure so I did a Google search for "reissue rate Alabama" and it looks like Alabama does? It's not super clear to me, though. However, since this is a new loan on a new construction home, I'm not sure that discount would apply.
Indeed, it would not apply for something you didn't previously own and get a title policy on. If someone is offering you the title policy at $700 cheaper, I would indeed be very tempted to take that. Good luck on the negotiations to see if you can squeeze out that extra $300+ in the Section C costs!
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by onyxlinkia »

Hello, may I know if it's possible to refinance with Better.com and get the AMEX offer again? If yes, what's the wait time? I've done refinance with better.com back in June 2020 and later refinance it to a much lower rate with IM in Dec 2020.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

onyxlinkia wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:21 am Hello, may I know if it's possible to refinance with Better.com and get the AMEX offer again? If yes, what's the wait time? I've done refinance with better.com back in June 2020 and later refinance it to a much lower rate with IM in Dec 2020.
Terms are here

https://www.americanexpress.com/en-us/l ... -mortgage/
Only one statement credit per property within a six-month period.
onyxlinkia
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by onyxlinkia »

Thanks. It's possible for me then. The challenge for me now is to find the 15 yr rate which is matching my current rate(1.75%) or lower :P
MrJedi wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:29 am
onyxlinkia wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:21 am Hello, may I know if it's possible to refinance with Better.com and get the AMEX offer again? If yes, what's the wait time? I've done refinance with better.com back in June 2020 and later refinance it to a much lower rate with IM in Dec 2020.
Terms are here

https://www.americanexpress.com/en-us/l ... -mortgage/
Only one statement credit per property within a six-month period.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cash is King »

DMB41 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:17 am
Cash is King wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 8:59 am
DMB41 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:08 am
Cash is King wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:53 am
DMB41 wrote: Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:10 am

Ok sounds good. Since I don't mind doing a refi in the future, whether near or far, would sticking with a higher rate be somewhat better so that I could refi to a lower rate later? I believe I saw discussion earlier in this thread of it being difficult or even impossible to refi at the same rate do to some rule or regulation maybe? For example, if I chose the lowest rate available to me at 2.5% rate, that essentially leaves me no room to refi to a lower rate in the future since finding rates less than 2.5% on 30-yr loans are rare, even during great times to refi like right now, correct? What reasons would there be to refi to a higher rate other than to maybe make some money of lender credits? This assumes a lot I am sure, such as rates staying low enough to where refinancing at a lower rate in the future makes sense, and I'm probably getting to far in the weeds here, but I like to learn :D .

EDIT - Also, Amrock got back to me with a quote for title costs. The quoted me for section C, section E and section H (Owner's Title Insurance). They beat Better for Section C by $400, are equal for section E and twice the price and for section H. Can I pick and chose who to use for each section? Amrock for C and maybe E and Better for section H or is one or the other for all the sections?
It should indicate on the closing disclosure which services you can shop. I agree with others that 2.875% is probably the best option and might let you refi at lower rate later. FWIW, I did refinance last March 20yr @ 3.0%. Today, I'm signing another refi at 2.375% for 20yrs. Both refi's have been no escrow , appraisal waiver, and zero to $197.00 in closing costs.
Thanks for the info. I know I can shop for section C as it explicitly states that on the LE from Better. Title Owners Insurance I figured I could shop for, but I didn't realize section E was something that could be shopped for. Maybe it can't, but Amrock did provide a quote for it.
In most refi cases, the only item under section E is recording fees. You may have other taxes if required in your local. Amrock is who you chose for title services, so they provided a quote to record the loan. I doubt the recording fees Amrock provided are negotiable but it never hurts to ask.
Yea, it's only recording fees in Section E. However, my question wasn't about whether or not the price was negotiable, it was whether or not I could pick and choose which company to use for each section. For example, use Amrock for section C since they are cheaper and Better for Section E and Owners Title Insurance. Or do I have to use one title company for all title related costs?
Got it. I misunderstood your question. I see you have your answer.
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