Any Amex card works. There are also cards with no annual fee (e.g., Blue Cash Everyday) if you don't want to think about how to offset one.Malum Prohibitum wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:13 pm Is there a certain card I need to use, or will the $0/$95 card suffice for this purpose?
Refinance Mega Thread
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
A useful razor: anyone asking about speculative strategies on Bogleheads.org has no business using them.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Thanks. Applied and got one in seconds. Now on to Better.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Currently 15 year at 2.5%, owe $148,000
Zillow says home value = $322,000
So I entered onto Bankrate $248,000 loan ($100k cash out), and it shows Better at 30 year at 2.625% (APR 2.735) points 1.417 ($3514)
On Better, however, it is showing for a $238,000 loan ($90,000 cash out):
3.000% (APR 3.199) $5079 in points which is 2.1% in points, and it goes up from there.
3.125% (3.284%) Points $3,848
Rate (APR)
3.250% (3.360%) Points $2,361
Rate (APR)
The first option means about $80,000 cash out, which means about 10 grand going to closing costs of one sort or another. I am not sure any of these are worth exploring further even with a $2000 AMEX credit.
Zillow says home value = $322,000
So I entered onto Bankrate $248,000 loan ($100k cash out), and it shows Better at 30 year at 2.625% (APR 2.735) points 1.417 ($3514)
On Better, however, it is showing for a $238,000 loan ($90,000 cash out):
3.000% (APR 3.199) $5079 in points which is 2.1% in points, and it goes up from there.
3.125% (3.284%) Points $3,848
Rate (APR)
3.250% (3.360%) Points $2,361
Rate (APR)
The first option means about $80,000 cash out, which means about 10 grand going to closing costs of one sort or another. I am not sure any of these are worth exploring further even with a $2000 AMEX credit.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
I am pretty sure the AMEX Everyday Blue Cash Card has no annual fee and you get 3% cash back on groceries. Look at that one.Malum Prohibitum wrote: ↑Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:13 pm So I have been reading, and reading, and I see this AMEX $2000 credit at Better. I do not have an AMEX. I take it I must apply for it before I go to Better and try to refinance. I see there are a couple with a $695 annual fee (ouch!) and one with a $0 fee the first year and $95 the second. Is there a certain card I need to use, or will the $0/$95 card suffice for this purpose?
Is there anything else I need to know?
Thank you in advance for your consideration of these questions.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Going from 15 yr to 30 yr for flexibility after a year.
Current Mortgage with Lenderfi- $190k , 15 year , 2.625%
Better.com offer -
2.75% ( 30 year , 0 points)
Section A - $0
B - $64
Section C - $1456 (Title services)
Section D - $1520 (A+B+C)
Section E - $100 (recording fee)
Section F - Prepaids - $2314 (
Section G - 3 months escrow - $757
Section H - 0 (Pending Amex credit)
Section I - (E+F+G+H) = $3171
Total Costs - D+I = $4691
There are no lender credits.
Lenderfi will do a no-cost refinance for a 30 year - 3%.
My property tax was just paid by the current lender, so $2100 will be deducted when closing. So actual cost for this loan will be ($4691-$2100) = $2591
After the $2k credit, the cost is $591?
Am I calculating this right?
Current Mortgage with Lenderfi- $190k , 15 year , 2.625%
Better.com offer -
2.75% ( 30 year , 0 points)
Section A - $0
B - $64
Section C - $1456 (Title services)
Section D - $1520 (A+B+C)
Section E - $100 (recording fee)
Section F - Prepaids - $2314 (
Section G - 3 months escrow - $757
Section H - 0 (Pending Amex credit)
Section I - (E+F+G+H) = $3171
Total Costs - D+I = $4691
There are no lender credits.
Lenderfi will do a no-cost refinance for a 30 year - 3%.
My property tax was just paid by the current lender, so $2100 will be deducted when closing. So actual cost for this loan will be ($4691-$2100) = $2591
After the $2k credit, the cost is $591?
Am I calculating this right?
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Has anyone actually received the $2K Amex credit via their Better refinance? And was it the full amount. The fine print basically says the credit can be "up to," so I'm curious how this promotion has been working in practice.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
I got exactly $2000. I also don't see where in the fine print that suggests any wiggle room on the amount.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Great, thanks for the confirmation. Sounds like I'll continue with them.
Here's the language I was referring to. The "sole discretion" language is what I saw.
"Better Mortgage, in its sole discretion, will determine the statement credit amount ($2,000 for a conforming loan OR $6,000 for a jumbo loan) at loan closing. American Express will post the statement credit based on the data it receives from Better Mortgage."
https://www.americanexpress.com/en-us/l ... -mortgage/
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Depends on what you mean by cost I guess, but generally prepaids and escrow funding are NOT considered in the cost of the loan. These items may shift when you pay something (for instance, you may pay a bill a month or two early to make the new lender happy) but they don't change the amount you pay. And if you have escrow on your old loan you'll get a refund that'll likely cover the cost of funding the new escrow account.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
I figure this is the most relevant place to share this: FHFA announced the new conforming loan limits today, ranging from $647,200 up to $970,800.
A useful razor: anyone asking about speculative strategies on Bogleheads.org has no business using them.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Cost as in - cash I need to bring to the table.Millennial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:48 pmDepends on what you mean by cost I guess, but generally prepaids and escrow funding are NOT considered in the cost of the loan. These items may shift when you pay something (for instance, you may pay a bill a month or two early to make the new lender happy) but they don't change the amount you pay. And if you have escrow on your old loan you'll get a refund that'll likely cover the cost of funding the new escrow account.
I just got off the phone with LoanDepot, wow so rude. Has anyone had a decent experience with them?
Decent as in - Gave the Loan Amt, Address and asked to get an estimate with my score. The lady went on - "You have been a homeowner right? do you really think you can get an estimate in 2 mins?" I said "yes I got one in the morning real quick and by law I can get a good-faith estimate without giving too much details".
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
That is also driven by your loan amount. So assuming it doesn’t throw you LTV or DTI off, you can raise or lower your loan amount to control your cash to close (on top of controlling/shopping costs).topcatin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:36 pmCost as in - cash I need to bring to the table.Millennial wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:48 pmDepends on what you mean by cost I guess, but generally prepaids and escrow funding are NOT considered in the cost of the loan. These items may shift when you pay something (for instance, you may pay a bill a month or two early to make the new lender happy) but they don't change the amount you pay. And if you have escrow on your old loan you'll get a refund that'll likely cover the cost of funding the new escrow account.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Gotcha. I don't think you have anything to worry about. Plenty of data points for getting the $2000 here. The language you cite reads to me that Better decides whether it's a $2000 credit or $6000 credit. Not some "up to" amount.ktdintex wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:24 pmGreat, thanks for the confirmation. Sounds like I'll continue with them.
Here's the language I was referring to. The "sole discretion" language is what I saw.
"Better Mortgage, in its sole discretion, will determine the statement credit amount ($2,000 for a conforming loan OR $6,000 for a jumbo loan) at loan closing. American Express will post the statement credit based on the data it receives from Better Mortgage."
https://www.americanexpress.com/en-us/l ... -mortgage/
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Ugh. As a heads up for folks whose servicing of their refis gets sold to Specialized Loan Servicing (SLS) (likely from a Better refi), they have the same issue as Mr Cooper/Nationstar with applying payments before the due date.
My first payment is due 12/1 and I wanted to make sure I had time to follow up in case my payment got "lost" as I set up the new payer in my bank's bill pay system. So my 12/1 payment arrived in late November. At the time, it showed up as "unapplied" and figured they would apply it properly. Nope. I just logged in and see they took my payment from "unapplied" to "principal reduction", meaning I still have a 12/1 due payment!
Why is it so hard for a servicer to apply a payment to the payment due?!? I understand I have a grace, but the statement says "due" on 12/1. So why is a payment arriving 11/27 processed as a principal reduction instead of the 12/1 due payment. I guess with them, like with Mr Cooper, I need to make sure my payment always arrive after the due date to avoid contacting them to fix things like this.
My first payment is due 12/1 and I wanted to make sure I had time to follow up in case my payment got "lost" as I set up the new payer in my bank's bill pay system. So my 12/1 payment arrived in late November. At the time, it showed up as "unapplied" and figured they would apply it properly. Nope. I just logged in and see they took my payment from "unapplied" to "principal reduction", meaning I still have a 12/1 due payment!
Why is it so hard for a servicer to apply a payment to the payment due?!? I understand I have a grace, but the statement says "due" on 12/1. So why is a payment arriving 11/27 processed as a principal reduction instead of the 12/1 due payment. I guess with them, like with Mr Cooper, I need to make sure my payment always arrive after the due date to avoid contacting them to fix things like this.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
This is just an observation, but wouldn't it be easier to avoid such a problem by setting up a "pull" of the payment due from the lender/servicer's end, rather than as a "push" from regular bank account to them? Normally, a pull is considered as payment received on that day by the lender/servicer, with the added benefit that the payment is not deducted from your bank account till a day or two later.BrandonBogle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:47 am Ugh. As a heads up for folks whose servicing of their refis gets sold to Specialized Loan Servicing (SLS) (likely from a Better refi), they have the same issue as Mr Cooper/Nationstar with applying payments before the due date.
My first payment is due 12/1 and I wanted to make sure I had time to follow up in case my payment got "lost" as I set up the new payer in my bank's bill pay system. So my 12/1 payment arrived in late November. At the time, it showed up as "unapplied" and figured they would apply it properly. Nope. I just logged in and see they took my payment from "unapplied" to "principal reduction", meaning I still have a 12/1 due payment!
Why is it so hard for a servicer to apply a payment to the payment due?!? I understand I have a grace, but the statement says "due" on 12/1. So why is a payment arriving 11/27 processed as a principal reduction instead of the 12/1 due payment. I guess with them, like with Mr Cooper, I need to make sure my payment always arrive after the due date to avoid contacting them to fix things like this.
Are there any downsides to setting up a pull from lender/servicer that I am not considering?
- BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
As a personal preference, I never set up pulls from any organization except the one auto loan I had that required it for a 0.5% rate reduction. For decades, I have been push only so I can control and consolidate my views of everything that goes in/out. I still maintain a paper register for my main checking account, but only update that every few weeks/monthly and day-to-day is using the online banking view of my bank. I have also had personal friends have problems where a provider pulled incorrectly (or twice) and your bank generally does not waive any overdraft charges not triggered by them.newbie20 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:17 amThis is just an observation, but wouldn't it be easier to avoid such a problem by setting up a "pull" of the payment due from the lender/servicer's end, rather than as a "push" from regular bank account to them? Normally, a pull is considered as payment received on that day by the lender/servicer, with the added benefit that the payment is not deducted from your bank account till a day or two later.BrandonBogle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:47 am Ugh. As a heads up for folks whose servicing of their refis gets sold to Specialized Loan Servicing (SLS) (likely from a Better refi), they have the same issue as Mr Cooper/Nationstar with applying payments before the due date.
My first payment is due 12/1 and I wanted to make sure I had time to follow up in case my payment got "lost" as I set up the new payer in my bank's bill pay system. So my 12/1 payment arrived in late November. At the time, it showed up as "unapplied" and figured they would apply it properly. Nope. I just logged in and see they took my payment from "unapplied" to "principal reduction", meaning I still have a 12/1 due payment!
Why is it so hard for a servicer to apply a payment to the payment due?!? I understand I have a grace, but the statement says "due" on 12/1. So why is a payment arriving 11/27 processed as a principal reduction instead of the 12/1 due payment. I guess with them, like with Mr Cooper, I need to make sure my payment always arrive after the due date to avoid contacting them to fix things like this.
Are there any downsides to setting up a pull from lender/servicer that I am not considering?
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
So what did you do to have to fix the dec 1st payment? Sounds like something similar to an issue I had last year with Lenderfi.BrandonBogle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:21 amAs a personal preference, I never set up pulls from any organization except the one auto loan I had that required it for a 0.5% rate reduction. For decades, I have been push only so I can control and consolidate my views of everything that goes in/out. I still maintain a paper register for my main checking account, but only update that every few weeks/monthly and day-to-day is using the online banking view of my bank. I have also had personal friends have problems where a provider pulled incorrectly (or twice) and your bank generally does not waive any overdraft charges not triggered by them.newbie20 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:17 amThis is just an observation, but wouldn't it be easier to avoid such a problem by setting up a "pull" of the payment due from the lender/servicer's end, rather than as a "push" from regular bank account to them? Normally, a pull is considered as payment received on that day by the lender/servicer, with the added benefit that the payment is not deducted from your bank account till a day or two later.BrandonBogle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:47 am Ugh. As a heads up for folks whose servicing of their refis gets sold to Specialized Loan Servicing (SLS) (likely from a Better refi), they have the same issue as Mr Cooper/Nationstar with applying payments before the due date.
My first payment is due 12/1 and I wanted to make sure I had time to follow up in case my payment got "lost" as I set up the new payer in my bank's bill pay system. So my 12/1 payment arrived in late November. At the time, it showed up as "unapplied" and figured they would apply it properly. Nope. I just logged in and see they took my payment from "unapplied" to "principal reduction", meaning I still have a 12/1 due payment!
Why is it so hard for a servicer to apply a payment to the payment due?!? I understand I have a grace, but the statement says "due" on 12/1. So why is a payment arriving 11/27 processed as a principal reduction instead of the 12/1 due payment. I guess with them, like with Mr Cooper, I need to make sure my payment always arrive after the due date to avoid contacting them to fix things like this.
Are there any downsides to setting up a pull from lender/servicer that I am not considering?
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Make a few phone calls. Find a better rate on the title insurance. Tell better you want to go with the other company because of price. Better will match.topcatin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:51 pm Going from 15 yr to 30 yr for flexibility after a year.
Current Mortgage with Lenderfi- $190k , 15 year , 2.625%
Better.com offer -
2.75% ( 30 year , 0 points)
Section A - $0
B - $64
Section C - $1456 (Title services)
Section D - $1520 (A+B+C)
Section E - $100 (recording fee)
Section F - Prepaids - $2314 (
Section G - 3 months escrow - $757
Section H - 0 (Pending Amex credit)
Section I - (E+F+G+H) = $3171
Total Costs - D+I = $4691
There are no lender credits.
Lenderfi will do a no-cost refinance for a 30 year - 3%.
My property tax was just paid by the current lender, so $2100 will be deducted when closing. So actual cost for this loan will be ($4691-$2100) = $2591
After the $2k credit, the cost is $591?
Am I calculating this right?
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
That is a fair argument in favor of "push", instead of "pull". I guess I never had that problem with a pull so far (touch wood!), so I didn't consider having an incorrect pull or getting it pulled twice.BrandonBogle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:21 amAs a personal preference, I never set up pulls from any organization except the one auto loan I had that required it for a 0.5% rate reduction. For decades, I have been push only so I can control and consolidate my views of everything that goes in/out. I still maintain a paper register for my main checking account, but only update that every few weeks/monthly and day-to-day is using the online banking view of my bank. I have also had personal friends have problems where a provider pulled incorrectly (or twice) and your bank generally does not waive any overdraft charges not triggered by them.newbie20 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:17 amThis is just an observation, but wouldn't it be easier to avoid such a problem by setting up a "pull" of the payment due from the lender/servicer's end, rather than as a "push" from regular bank account to them? Normally, a pull is considered as payment received on that day by the lender/servicer, with the added benefit that the payment is not deducted from your bank account till a day or two later.BrandonBogle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:47 am Ugh. As a heads up for folks whose servicing of their refis gets sold to Specialized Loan Servicing (SLS) (likely from a Better refi), they have the same issue as Mr Cooper/Nationstar with applying payments before the due date.
My first payment is due 12/1 and I wanted to make sure I had time to follow up in case my payment got "lost" as I set up the new payer in my bank's bill pay system. So my 12/1 payment arrived in late November. At the time, it showed up as "unapplied" and figured they would apply it properly. Nope. I just logged in and see they took my payment from "unapplied" to "principal reduction", meaning I still have a 12/1 due payment!
Why is it so hard for a servicer to apply a payment to the payment due?!? I understand I have a grace, but the statement says "due" on 12/1. So why is a payment arriving 11/27 processed as a principal reduction instead of the 12/1 due payment. I guess with them, like with Mr Cooper, I need to make sure my payment always arrive after the due date to avoid contacting them to fix things like this.
Are there any downsides to setting up a pull from lender/servicer that I am not considering?
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Just a phone call and they said they will reprocess it. Just annoying that I have to even call in the first place. But you know, logic doesn’t often apply to these organizations lol.topcatin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:31 amSo what did you do to have to fix the dec 1st payment? Sounds like something similar to an issue I had last year with Lenderfi.BrandonBogle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:47 am Ugh. As a heads up for folks whose servicing of their refis gets sold to Specialized Loan Servicing (SLS) (likely from a Better refi), they have the same issue as Mr Cooper/Nationstar with applying payments before the due date.
My first payment is due 12/1 and I wanted to make sure I had time to follow up in case my payment got "lost" as I set up the new payer in my bank's bill pay system. So my 12/1 payment arrived in late November. At the time, it showed up as "unapplied" and figured they would apply it properly. Nope. I just logged in and see they took my payment from "unapplied" to "principal reduction", meaning I still have a 12/1 due payment!
Why is it so hard for a servicer to apply a payment to the payment due?!? I understand I have a grace, but the statement says "due" on 12/1. So why is a payment arriving 11/27 processed as a principal reduction instead of the 12/1 due payment. I guess with them, like with Mr Cooper, I need to make sure my payment always arrive after the due date to avoid contacting them to fix things like this.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
To avoid that, one could always set up a separate CMA/checking account, turn off overdraft, and only deposit the exact mortgage payment once a month in advance of the pull. It's kind of a simulated push.BrandonBogle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:21 am As a personal preference, I never set up pulls from any organization except the one auto loan I had that required it for a 0.5% rate reduction. For decades, I have been push only so I can control and consolidate my views of everything that goes in/out. I still maintain a paper register for my main checking account, but only update that every few weeks/monthly and day-to-day is using the online banking view of my bank. I have also had personal friends have problems where a provider pulled incorrectly (or twice) and your bank generally does not waive any overdraft charges not triggered by them.
A useful razor: anyone asking about speculative strategies on Bogleheads.org has no business using them.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
I switched from push to pull on my latest mortgage (and also my gas bill)...I earn more interest this way, when I pushed, I'd always schedule a bill pay date well in advance so that it would get there in time. With pull, they just grab it on the date I tell them to. I still push all my credit cards but that's probably more out of laziness of having to log in to all of the accounts to set up a pull.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Yes, but no solution is perfect. Now you are maintaining a separate account just for the mortgage plus any other pulls? And if something goes wrong, wouldn't the other ACHes have issues?drk wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:28 amTo avoid that, one could always set up a separate CMA/checking account, turn off overdraft, and only deposit the exact mortgage payment once a month in advance of the pull. It's kind of a simulated push.BrandonBogle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:21 am As a personal preference, I never set up pulls from any organization except the one auto loan I had that required it for a 0.5% rate reduction. For decades, I have been push only so I can control and consolidate my views of everything that goes in/out. I still maintain a paper register for my main checking account, but only update that every few weeks/monthly and day-to-day is using the online banking view of my bank. I have also had personal friends have problems where a provider pulled incorrectly (or twice) and your bank generally does not waive any overdraft charges not triggered by them.
Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with folks doing pulls instead of pushes, it is just not for me. Heck, a year or two ago (I'm pretty sure it was pre-COVID), Chase pulled 2x for tons of their customer base who had auto credit card payments set up. Though in that case, they worked with the banks and I believe covered any overdraft fees generated by the glitch, or convinced the banks not to charge it.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
There are pros and cons to both push and pull
Push from bank - more control over your bank account but biller will be less forgiving if a technical issue occurs and payment doesn't work
Pull from biller - biller will be more forgiving if a technical issue occurs and payment doesn't work, but less control over your bank account
I've heard of headaches both ways. Over pulling and you have to fight for your money back, or failed push and the biller wants late fees.
Push from bank - more control over your bank account but biller will be less forgiving if a technical issue occurs and payment doesn't work
Pull from biller - biller will be more forgiving if a technical issue occurs and payment doesn't work, but less control over your bank account
I've heard of headaches both ways. Over pulling and you have to fight for your money back, or failed push and the biller wants late fees.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Don't get me wrong: I use bill-pay for my mortgage, so I understand your preference. But a second Fidelity CMA (or even BofA checking account) requires no management after initial set-up. If my loan servicing is ever transferred somewhere not set-up with bill-pay for e-payments, this is probably what I'll do.BrandonBogle wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:24 pm Yes, but no solution is perfect. Now you are maintaining a separate account just for the mortgage plus any other pulls? And if something goes wrong, wouldn't the other ACHes have issues?
Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with folks doing pulls instead of pushes, it is just not for me. Heck, a year or two ago (I'm pretty sure it was pre-COVID), Chase pulled 2x for tons of their customer base who had auto credit card payments set up. Though in that case, they worked with the banks and I believe covered any overdraft fees generated by the glitch, or convinced the banks not to charge it.
A useful razor: anyone asking about speculative strategies on Bogleheads.org has no business using them.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
I completed their online form and then talked to someone on the phone and got a great offer - went with them and was quite happy.topcatin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:36 pm I just got off the phone with LoanDepot, wow so rude. Has anyone had a decent experience with them?
Decent as in - Gave the Loan Amt, Address and asked to get an estimate with my score. The lady went on - "You have been a homeowner right? do you really think you can get an estimate in 2 mins?" I said "yes I got one in the morning real quick and by law I can get a good-faith estimate without giving too much details".
Took more than 2mins, and probably required more details than what you're after, but I can't recall. We simply submitted to a bunch of lenders that day/week and then compared #s.
- BrandonBogle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Yup. Note that many banks offer a guarantee if anything goes wrong with a push, as long as you did it by their specified number of days before the due date. So hopefully the recipient of the push will work with you/them so you yourself don’t pay any fees or get dinged for the late payment.MrJedi wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:35 pm There are pros and cons to both push and pull
Push from bank - more control over your bank account but biller will be less forgiving if a technical issue occurs and payment doesn't work
Pull from biller - biller will be more forgiving if a technical issue occurs and payment doesn't work, but less control over your bank account
I've heard of headaches both ways. Over pulling and you have to fight for your money back, or failed push and the biller wants late fees.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Better.com lays off 15% of workforce.
https://youtu.be/X7GVklRqHRY
What’s this change in the market he mentions ??
https://youtu.be/X7GVklRqHRY
What’s this change in the market he mentions ??
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
But are they still giving $2k to Amex cardholders? lolBryan995 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:39 pm Better.com lays off 15% of workforce.
https://youtu.be/X7GVklRqHRY
What’s this change in the market he mentions ??
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Savage! Hahtj wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:43 pmBut are they still giving $2k to Amex cardholders? lolBryan995 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:39 pm Better.com lays off 15% of workforce.
https://youtu.be/X7GVklRqHRY
What’s this change in the market he mentions ??
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
I’m curious about that too. What market impact are they feeling? And didn’t they just have a big finding round?
Also, I close with them Saturday…any reason for concern?
Also, I close with them Saturday…any reason for concern?
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
I think it is really going to affect their market share when the AMEX credit goes away. It’s the only thing that really makes them stand out. Better is soon going public. It will be interesting to see what happens.tj wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:43 pmBut are they still giving $2k to Amex cardholders? lolBryan995 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:39 pm Better.com lays off 15% of workforce.
https://youtu.be/X7GVklRqHRY
What’s this change in the market he mentions ??
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Anyone else unable to even sign in and load the better website?
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
For reference, look at how Loan Depot has done since its IPO. Times are rough for mortgage originators whose only trick is offering lower rates or higher credits than the competition.rage_phish wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:36 am I’m curious about that too. What market impact are they feeling? And didn’t they just have a big finding round?
I really don't think so. Once you get to closing, Better isn't really involved, but it's not as though they're insolvent or something.rage_phish wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:36 am Also, I close with them Saturday…any reason for concern?
A useful razor: anyone asking about speculative strategies on Bogleheads.org has no business using them.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
I disagree.GoldenFinch wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:22 amI think it is really going to affect their market share when the AMEX credit goes away. It’s the only thing that really makes them stand out. Better is soon going public. It will be interesting to see what happens.tj wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:43 pmBut are they still giving $2k to Amex cardholders? lolBryan995 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:39 pm Better.com lays off 15% of workforce.
https://youtu.be/X7GVklRqHRY
What’s this change in the market he mentions ??
Better has the slickest UX of any lender and moves through stages faster than anyone. Most people go from Lock --> Close in <25 days.
Add on top that you can get below advertised Bankrate.com pricing if you know what you're doing.
- BrandonBogle
- Posts: 4467
- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
In the past when that has happened to me on occasion, I delete the cookies Better leaves behind and everything works again. They use cookies extensively, so something may have glitched.rage_phish wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:17 am Anyone else unable to even sign in and load the better website?
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- Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2014 10:34 pm
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
I wonder if matching (or bettering) all the other quotes people give them is hurting their bottom line and that’s part of the reason they’re cutting jobs. I think the AMEX credit is a huge incentive to use them. In my case, I would have definitely gone with AIM loan if not for the credit. But I agree with you that the turn around is fast.mceagle555 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:11 amI disagree.GoldenFinch wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:22 amI think it is really going to affect their market share when the AMEX credit goes away. It’s the only thing that really makes them stand out. Better is soon going public. It will be interesting to see what happens.tj wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:43 pmBut are they still giving $2k to Amex cardholders? lolBryan995 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:39 pm Better.com lays off 15% of workforce.
https://youtu.be/X7GVklRqHRY
What’s this change in the market he mentions ??
Better has the slickest UX of any lender and moves through stages faster than anyone. Most people go from Lock --> Close in <25 days.
Add on top that you can get below advertised Bankrate.com pricing if you know what you're doing.
- LongTermHorizon
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:33 am
- Location: Boston,MA
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
This layoff at Better had nothing to do with the market changing. It had to do with conditions of taking money from Softbank.
The layoffs come as the company received a $750 million cash injection from its biggest backer, Softbank, ahead of its plans to go public through a SPAC merger with Aurora Acquisition Corp., giving it $1 billion in cash on its balance sheet.
They can give away 500,000 $2k discounts and still not be out of cash.
https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/better-com-layoffs
The layoffs come as the company received a $750 million cash injection from its biggest backer, Softbank, ahead of its plans to go public through a SPAC merger with Aurora Acquisition Corp., giving it $1 billion in cash on its balance sheet.
They can give away 500,000 $2k discounts and still not be out of cash.
https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/better-com-layoffs
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
So my better refi was supposed to be signed today
I scheduled my time for this morning and better confirmed it
The notary never contacted me or showed up
Anyone ever run into this?
I messaged my contact at better, but haven’t heard anything back
I scheduled my time for this morning and better confirmed it
The notary never contacted me or showed up
Anyone ever run into this?
I messaged my contact at better, but haven’t heard anything back
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- Posts: 85
- Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:08 pm
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Section E includes
$85. Recording Fees and Other Taxes
$744. Transfer Taxes
My state (Georgia) does not have transfer taxes on mortgages.
$85. Recording Fees and Other Taxes
$744. Transfer Taxes
My state (Georgia) does not have transfer taxes on mortgages.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Are there any in particular that folks are going with on this thread or finding easy and cheap, or is title insurance a local market?BitTooAggressive wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:50 amMake a few phone calls. Find a better rate on the title insurance. Tell better you want to go with the other company because of price. Better will match.topcatin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:51 pm Going from 15 yr to 30 yr for flexibility after a year.
Current Mortgage with Lenderfi- $190k , 15 year , 2.625%
Better.com offer -
2.75% ( 30 year , 0 points)
Section A - $0
B - $64
Section C - $1456 (Title services)
Section D - $1520 (A+B+C)
Section E - $100 (recording fee)
Section F - Prepaids - $2314 (
Section G - 3 months escrow - $757
Section H - 0 (Pending Amex credit)
Section I - (E+F+G+H) = $3171
Total Costs - D+I = $4691
There are no lender credits.
Lenderfi will do a no-cost refinance for a 30 year - 3%.
My property tax was just paid by the current lender, so $2100 will be deducted when closing. So actual cost for this loan will be ($4691-$2100) = $2591
After the $2k credit, the cost is $591?
Am I calculating this right?
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Ah, never mind, it looks like the status is that title cleared already, so I guess that cost has already been incurred?
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
yes, both refis i did with better the notary was a no-show at first. it seems whatever 3rd party they use to schedule them is no good. frustrating. not the notaries fault.rage_phish wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:21 pm So my better refi was supposed to be signed today
I scheduled my time for this morning and better confirmed it
The notary never contacted me or showed up
Anyone ever run into this?
I messaged my contact at better, but haven’t heard anything back
60-20-20 us-intl-bond
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- Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:08 pm
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
According to the news, the layoffs were for unproductive employees only. The CEO told them they were working 2 hours a day and stealing. He also sent out a mass email that said, "“You are TOO DAMN SLOW. You are a bunch of DUMB DOLPHINS... SO STOP IT. STOP IT. STOP IT RIGHT NOW. YOU ARE EMBARRASSING ME.”"mceagle555 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:11 amI disagree.GoldenFinch wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:22 amI think it is really going to affect their market share when the AMEX credit goes away. It’s the only thing that really makes them stand out. Better is soon going public. It will be interesting to see what happens.tj wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:43 pmBut are they still giving $2k to Amex cardholders? lolBryan995 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:39 pm Better.com lays off 15% of workforce.
https://youtu.be/X7GVklRqHRY
What’s this change in the market he mentions ??
Better has the slickest UX of any lender and moves through stages faster than anyone. Most people go from Lock --> Close in <25 days.
Add on top that you can get below advertised Bankrate.com pricing if you know what you're doing.
Wow.
- LongTermHorizon
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2020 10:33 am
- Location: Boston,MA
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
The CEO gets even better.
Better.com CEO Threatened to Burn His Business Partner Alive. Now He’s a Billionaire.
This year the pay kept coming. Around early February, Garg announced to his board that he had granted Knoller another 1.25 million options, easily worth eight figures, insiders say. For technical reasons, he couldn’t authorize more without the board’s approval, so he sought permission to issue her an additional 1.15 million options. It’s unclear if that approval was ultimately granted.
Just four months later, in June, Knoller left the company after she was placed on administrative leave for alleged bullying and other workplace grievances. Those allegations had swirled for over a year. But even in her absence, major questions remain about the handouts and about the company’s oversight structure.
In fact, one of Better’s key investors, Pine Brook Capital, is threatening to sue the company and Garg, according to a recent company filing, claiming there have been “fiduciary breaches in connection with Better’s corporate governance.” (Pine Brook, which is already suing over a dispute related to stock sales, declined to comment.)
Another prominent backer, Goldman Sachs, recently sold much of its stake.
The tumult comes in the wake of other allegations made in lawsuits involving Garg: that he or his companies may have misappropriated tens of millions of dollars from prior businesses; that his companies engaged in fraud; and that he used ill-gotten money and stolen technology to found Better in the first place. As Forbes reported last year, the litigation has grown heated. In one deposition in 2019, he told a former business partner—once the best man at his wedding—that he was “going to staple him against a [expletive removed by admin LadyGeek] wall and burn him alive.” (Garg later apologized.)
Undeniably, though, Garg’s web of controversies has impacted the business. This winter Morgan Stanley informed the company that, due to the lawsuits, it would no longer work with Better on a possible IPO, according to a source with direct knowledge of the situation. Hence why the firm turned to a SPAC.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/bettercom ... illionaire
Better.com CEO Threatened to Burn His Business Partner Alive. Now He’s a Billionaire.
This year the pay kept coming. Around early February, Garg announced to his board that he had granted Knoller another 1.25 million options, easily worth eight figures, insiders say. For technical reasons, he couldn’t authorize more without the board’s approval, so he sought permission to issue her an additional 1.15 million options. It’s unclear if that approval was ultimately granted.
Just four months later, in June, Knoller left the company after she was placed on administrative leave for alleged bullying and other workplace grievances. Those allegations had swirled for over a year. But even in her absence, major questions remain about the handouts and about the company’s oversight structure.
In fact, one of Better’s key investors, Pine Brook Capital, is threatening to sue the company and Garg, according to a recent company filing, claiming there have been “fiduciary breaches in connection with Better’s corporate governance.” (Pine Brook, which is already suing over a dispute related to stock sales, declined to comment.)
Another prominent backer, Goldman Sachs, recently sold much of its stake.
The tumult comes in the wake of other allegations made in lawsuits involving Garg: that he or his companies may have misappropriated tens of millions of dollars from prior businesses; that his companies engaged in fraud; and that he used ill-gotten money and stolen technology to found Better in the first place. As Forbes reported last year, the litigation has grown heated. In one deposition in 2019, he told a former business partner—once the best man at his wedding—that he was “going to staple him against a [expletive removed by admin LadyGeek] wall and burn him alive.” (Garg later apologized.)
Undeniably, though, Garg’s web of controversies has impacted the business. This winter Morgan Stanley informed the company that, due to the lawsuits, it would no longer work with Better on a possible IPO, according to a source with direct knowledge of the situation. Hence why the firm turned to a SPAC.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/bettercom ... illionaire
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Although the news is relevant to this thread, let's avoid further CEO bashing. See: Non-actionable (Trolling) Topics
Please stay on-topic, which are the financial aspects of refinancing.
We maintain a family-friendly environment. A word intended for the "adult" crowd has been removed. Regardless if an offensive term is copied from an article, the same decorum applies.If readers can't do anything with the content of a topic other than argue about it, it does not belong here. Examples include:
- US or world economic, political, tax, health care and climate policies
- conspiracy theories of any type
- discussions of the crimes, shortcomings or stupidity of other people, whether they be political figures, celebrities, CEOs, Fed chairmen, subprime mortgage borrowers, lottery winners, federal "bailout" recipients, poor people, rich people, etc. Of course, you are welcome to talk about the stupid financial things you have done.
Please stay on-topic, which are the financial aspects of refinancing.
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
Seeking advice:
Background Info:
Paid $600k for vacation house in Nov 2020
No Mtg on my primary house.
No Mtg on vacation house.
Undergoing remodel and estimate total costs approx $850k (excluding $600k paid for house)
Using credit line against stocks to finance remodel (3% rate) - Short Term Solution
Expect to receive CO in February 2022
Goal: Borrow $645k (new conforming loan amount) lock in a 30 yr fixed rate on 2nd home and pay off balance of credit line using cash.
Confusion: I have spoken to several institutions and am receiving conflicting information. Some are viewing my $647k loan amount as a regular conforming refinance loan amount and there is no problem borrowing this amount. They are saying that they can view the transaction as paying off an equity line and therefore should be able to refinance.
Others are saying that it is considered a cash out and therefore limiting me to $500k or for a higher interest rate, 50% of LTV.
What is correct?
Background Info:
Paid $600k for vacation house in Nov 2020
No Mtg on my primary house.
No Mtg on vacation house.
Undergoing remodel and estimate total costs approx $850k (excluding $600k paid for house)
Using credit line against stocks to finance remodel (3% rate) - Short Term Solution
Expect to receive CO in February 2022
Goal: Borrow $645k (new conforming loan amount) lock in a 30 yr fixed rate on 2nd home and pay off balance of credit line using cash.
Confusion: I have spoken to several institutions and am receiving conflicting information. Some are viewing my $647k loan amount as a regular conforming refinance loan amount and there is no problem borrowing this amount. They are saying that they can view the transaction as paying off an equity line and therefore should be able to refinance.
Others are saying that it is considered a cash out and therefore limiting me to $500k or for a higher interest rate, 50% of LTV.
What is correct?
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread
I called American title on mine. Not sure if they are nation wide. They are common for Texas anyhow. Used them on purchase of home before and had no problems.Malum Prohibitum wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:08 amAre there any in particular that folks are going with on this thread or finding easy and cheap, or is title insurance a local market?BitTooAggressive wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:50 amMake a few phone calls. Find a better rate on the title insurance. Tell better you want to go with the other company because of price. Better will match.topcatin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 2:51 pm Going from 15 yr to 30 yr for flexibility after a year.
Current Mortgage with Lenderfi- $190k , 15 year , 2.625%
Better.com offer -
2.75% ( 30 year , 0 points)
Section A - $0
B - $64
Section C - $1456 (Title services)
Section D - $1520 (A+B+C)
Section E - $100 (recording fee)
Section F - Prepaids - $2314 (
Section G - 3 months escrow - $757
Section H - 0 (Pending Amex credit)
Section I - (E+F+G+H) = $3171
Total Costs - D+I = $4691
There are no lender credits.
Lenderfi will do a no-cost refinance for a 30 year - 3%.
My property tax was just paid by the current lender, so $2100 will be deducted when closing. So actual cost for this loan will be ($4691-$2100) = $2591
After the $2k credit, the cost is $591?
Am I calculating this right?
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- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:27 pm
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
They’re giving me a $500 credit for the inconvenience and we’re gonna reschedulecchrissyy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:44 amyes, both refis i did with better the notary was a no-show at first. it seems whatever 3rd party they use to schedule them is no good. frustrating. not the notaries fault.rage_phish wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:21 pm So my better refi was supposed to be signed today
I scheduled my time for this morning and better confirmed it
The notary never contacted me or showed up
Anyone ever run into this?
I messaged my contact at better, but haven’t heard anything back
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- Posts: 339
- Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:21 pm
Re: Refinance Mega Thread
I have had 4 servicers in 2 years. What is going on with the constant new servicing? So annoying.