Refinance Mega Thread

Non-investing personal finance issues including insurance, credit, real estate, taxes, employment and legal issues such as trusts and wills.
atx1202
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:09 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by atx1202 »

tj wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:52 pm
atx1202 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:40 pm
tj wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:14 am
atx1202 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:23 pm Hi, I locked my rate for 30yr fixed loan with better last Wednesday and the rates today are much lower.

Has anyone been able to request a price match (bankrate screenshot) after the rate has been locked?

Note: I haven’t had an appraisal yet (tomorrow) and in theory can cancel the application and put in a new one, but would rather avoid the hassle if I can.
I can't imagine why you'd be abel to change it after you lock. That is one of the risks. My rate is 30bps higher than it needs to be because I got unlucky with a lock. It happens. If you can cancel without paying anything, do it.
I agree, was just trying to see if it was even possible.

I do have a competing Loan Estimate with $1000 more credit than the locked rate table with better. Does anyone know if better price matches competing LE's after rate lock?
Why would they do that? I assume you're getting the $2k Amex offer, so they already have a better net cost for you.
I've had LoanDepot match competing LE's until a week prior to closing, the last time around. Not that better should do that, but it does happen.

The competing LE has ~$1500 credit & they are willing to waive the Appraisal off ($550), which equates to the same net cost as better.
Monsterflockster
Posts: 980
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:03 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Monsterflockster »

Goal33 wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:32 pm
heponly wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 10:03 pm My Current 15 year fixed mortgage balance with Loandepot 301,000 is at 1.99% with 14 years remaining

Better's offer for 15 year fixed at 1.875% is :
Section A + B + C = $2160
Lender credit - $600
Amex offer = $2000

Based on the above calculation, the closing cost is almost zero.

Is it worth refinancing ?
Yes
How much have you paid in interest this year and will the rate decrease be enough to cover this to reset your loan?
PDXAussie
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:32 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by PDXAussie »

atx1202 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 4:16 pm
tj wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:52 pm
atx1202 wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 3:40 pm
tj wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 8:14 am
atx1202 wrote: Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:23 pm Hi, I locked my rate for 30yr fixed loan with better last Wednesday and the rates today are much lower.

Has anyone been able to request a price match (bankrate screenshot) after the rate has been locked?

Note: I haven’t had an appraisal yet (tomorrow) and in theory can cancel the application and put in a new one, but would rather avoid the hassle if I can.
I can't imagine why you'd be abel to change it after you lock. That is one of the risks. My rate is 30bps higher than it needs to be because I got unlucky with a lock. It happens. If you can cancel without paying anything, do it.
I agree, was just trying to see if it was even possible.

I do have a competing Loan Estimate with $1000 more credit than the locked rate table with better. Does anyone know if better price matches competing LE's after rate lock?
Why would they do that? I assume you're getting the $2k Amex offer, so they already have a better net cost for you.
I've had LoanDepot match competing LE's until a week prior to closing, the last time around. Not that better should do that, but it does happen.

The competing LE has ~$1500 credit & they are willing to waive the Appraisal off ($550), which equates to the same net cost as better.
I am in a similar situation mid refi with Better Mortgage so I figured I would just ask about a rate adjustment and sent my loan processor a screenshot from smartasset which had better pricing than bankrate. He submitted the rate match request for me but was told by the pricing team that they have a new policy of no longer pricing matching after a lock, but they used to do it. Now they only offer a float down policy so if the market average rate (https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MORTGAGE30US) drops by 0.25% or more since you locked they will do a no-cost 0.125% rate reduction upon request as long as it is prior to you acknowledging your initial Closing Disclosure.
Laddu99
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun May 30, 2021 10:40 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Laddu99 »

I was told that PM is possible, if the request is made:
Before lock: with the screenshot.
After lock: with the competing LE.
spammagnet
Posts: 2477
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by spammagnet »

To provide a data point, we refinanced our ~$100K mortgage last week at 2.115% for 10 years through Interfirst. Our credit rating is stellar.

It was by far the best rate available to us in casual searching over the past many months. We already had 2.875% which was hard to beat, considering closing costs and our low balance. I think some lenders ignored us due to the low principal amount.

There were no points or fees associated with the loan, other than the closing agent. We comparison shopped and used a local title company. The lender's quoted closing costs weren't much different.
Bob_Sacamano
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bob_Sacamano »

Current
Condo value: ~210k
Loan amount: $177,512 (02/01/2020)
Current balance: $165,372
Interest rate: 3.75%
Monthly P+I: $822.09/mo

Refinance
InterFirst
Loan amount: $169,500 (incl. closing costs = $3519 [J])
15yr interest rate: 2.115%
15yr monthly P+I: $1099.75/mo

Image

Are these numbers good? I only plan to stay at this condo for about 3 years, however.
rage_phish
Posts: 771
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:27 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by rage_phish »

Has anyone had experience with opening an Amex card after you refi and getting the better credit?

We don’t have an Amex and would like that credit…
User avatar
black jack
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:13 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by black jack »

I just closed a cash-out refi with Better in Sept.

Thinking of doing a straight refi now, which would get a lower rate.

Can I do a new refi after just a couple of months? I think I've seen mention both of people doing back-to-back refis with Better, and people being told by Better they have to wait several months before doing a refi (possibly that just applied to getting the AMEX credit)?
We cannot absolutely prove [that they are wrong who say] that we have seen our best days. But so said all who came before us, and with just as much apparent reason. | -T. B. Macaulay (1800-1859)
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

black jack wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:42 pm I just closed a cash-out refi with Better in Sept.

Thinking of doing a straight refi now, which would get a lower rate.

Can I do a new refi after just a couple of months? I think I've seen mention both of people doing back-to-back refis with Better, and people being told by Better they have to wait several months before doing a refi (possibly that just applied to getting the AMEX credit)?
If Better won't do it, just use one of the others.
User avatar
black jack
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:13 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by black jack »

tj wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:49 pm
black jack wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:42 pm I just closed a cash-out refi with Better in Sept.

Thinking of doing a straight refi now, which would get a lower rate.

Can I do a new refi after just a couple of months? I think I've seen mention both of people doing back-to-back refis with Better, and people being told by Better they have to wait several months before doing a refi (possibly that just applied to getting the AMEX credit)?
If Better won't do it, just use one of the others.
As of today, Better offers a better ( :D ) rate.
We cannot absolutely prove [that they are wrong who say] that we have seen our best days. But so said all who came before us, and with just as much apparent reason. | -T. B. Macaulay (1800-1859)
heatitup99
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:00 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by heatitup99 »

Better finally just opened in my state (MA)! I just finished a refi last month, but I'd like to explore the Better play with Amex...details below:

Mortgage Amount: $960,000
Home Value (as of appraisal in Oct refi): $1,400,000
Rate: 2.75%

Better's advertised rates are 2.75% on BankRate for my 30yr jumbo, but I remember reading you should choose a different rate and then change it to the mortgage type you actually want. I'm just not sure how you go about doing that? And I don't think Better would even look at my refi if I wouldn't be improving my rate, correct?
gt4715b
Posts: 533
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 10:29 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gt4715b »

Does anyone know if LenderFi is doing appraisal waivers? My LTV is around 45-50%. I got one with aimloan, but they're not offering me a no-cost option (the highest rate they're offering leaves closing costs around $1200).
masrepus
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:14 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by masrepus »

gt4715b wrote: Fri Nov 12, 2021 4:35 pm Does anyone know if LenderFi is doing appraisal waivers? My LTV is around 45-50%. I got one with aimloan, but they're not offering me a no-cost option (the highest rate they're offering leaves closing costs around $1200).
Yes. I had similar LTV and appraisal was waved. I didn't even ask and they offered it when I called.
koryg75
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:48 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by koryg75 »

I had the same experience with LenderFi. Waived without having to ask. Very smooth experience.
Bob_Sacamano
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Dec 26, 2015 7:47 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Bob_Sacamano »

Bob_Sacamano wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:13 am Current
Condo value: ~210k
Loan amount: $177,512 (02/01/2020)
Current balance: $165,372
Interest rate: 3.75%
Monthly P+I: $822.09/mo

Refinance
InterFirst
Loan amount: $169,500 (incl. closing costs = $3519 [J])
15yr interest rate: 2.115%
15yr monthly P+I: $1099.75/mo

Image

Are these numbers good? I only plan to stay at this condo for about 3 years, however.
I am planning to proceed Monday, can someone please confirm. Break even calculators are telling me I will benefit. I am just curious if the closing costs are good. Better was quoting a higher rate and that with points
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

Bob_Sacamano wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:13 am
Bob_Sacamano wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:13 am Current
Condo value: ~210k
Loan amount: $177,512 (02/01/2020)
Current balance: $165,372
Interest rate: 3.75%
Monthly P+I: $822.09/mo

Refinance
InterFirst
Loan amount: $169,500 (incl. closing costs = $3519 [J])
15yr interest rate: 2.115%
15yr monthly P+I: $1099.75/mo

Image

Are these numbers good? I only plan to stay at this condo for about 3 years, however.
I am planning to proceed Monday, can someone please confirm. Break even calculators are telling me I will benefit. I am just curious if the closing costs are good. Better was quoting a higher rate and that with points
It is hard to tell with the summarized “J” costs vs. at least just D, if not A-E individually. Chances are it is good though.
ShowMeTheER
Posts: 511
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 9:12 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ShowMeTheER »

Bob_Sacamano wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:13 am
Bob_Sacamano wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:13 am Current
Condo value: ~210k
Loan amount: $177,512 (02/01/2020)
Current balance: $165,372
Interest rate: 3.75%
Monthly P+I: $822.09/mo

Refinance
InterFirst
Loan amount: $169,500 (incl. closing costs = $3519 [J])
15yr interest rate: 2.115%
15yr monthly P+I: $1099.75/mo

Image

Are these numbers good? I only plan to stay at this condo for about 3 years, however.
I am planning to proceed Monday, can someone please confirm. Break even calculators are telling me I will benefit. I am just curious if the closing costs are good. Better was quoting a higher rate and that with points
It's seems pretty solid for not doing the whole application match game. Quick payback for you even at that closing cost. If you are pretty sure about 3 year timing, however, consider ThirdFederal current 10-year; 2.39% for $295 in total closing cost. You'd come out around a couple grand ahead for a 3-year timeframe.
spammagnet
Posts: 2477
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by spammagnet »

Bob_Sacamano wrote: Sat Nov 13, 2021 9:13 am
Bob_Sacamano wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:13 am Current
Condo value: ~210k
Loan amount: $177,512 (02/01/2020)
Current balance: $165,372
Interest rate: 3.75%
Monthly P+I: $822.09/mo

Refinance
InterFirst
Loan amount: $169,500 (incl. closing costs = $3519 [J])
15yr interest rate: 2.115%
15yr monthly P+I: $1099.75/mo

Image

Are these numbers good? I only plan to stay at this condo for about 3 years, however.
I am planning to proceed Monday, can someone please confirm. Break even calculators are telling me I will benefit. I am just curious if the closing costs are good. Better was quoting a higher rate and that with points
Old P&I outlay (36 mo): $29,595.24
New P&I outlay (36 mo): $39,590.86
Diff: -$9,995.62

Old ending principal (11/1/24): $153,758.20
New ending principal (11/1/24): $139,756.48
Diff: $14,001.72

Net benefit: $4,006.10

Assuming you're rolling the closing costs into the loan, I ignored them. The bottom line is the difference in total payments and the difference in ending principal.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

So are these 7% I Bonds going to cause a skyrocket in Mortgage Rates? I'm still riding out a few months before I can refi without effing over my broker. I guess I shouldn't complain too much about a 3.25% loan.
nic3456
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

You could always get a long lock period - so they aren't hosed.
nic3456
Posts: 112
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by nic3456 »

So Better is telling me that the AMEX 6 month clock for another 2k/6k rebate starts when they sell the loan to investors (his term was last overall interaction). For me this was about 10 days after closing - anyone else heard this?
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

nic3456 wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:53 pm So Better is telling me that the AMEX 6 month clock for another 2k/6k rebate starts when they sell the loan to investors (his term was last overall interaction). For me this was about 10 days after closing - anyone else heard this?
I haven’t heard that, but it makes sense. If the loan is refinanced before six months at the investor, Better has to repay to investor any profit from selling them the loan. This doesn’t stop you from refinancing elsewhere, but discourages a back-to-back Better refi with the Amex promo as they end up paying for it twice while earning profit only once.
christoph_kohl
Posts: 27
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:22 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by christoph_kohl »

rage_phish wrote: Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:31 am Has anyone had experience with opening an Amex card after you refi and getting the better credit?

We don’t have an Amex and would like that credit…
You need to have an active (and applicable) Amex credit line BEFORE you close on the refi.
You would also need to ask your loan officer to add the "Amex rebate" as an action-item.

Hope this helps.
K89AVL
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 8:42 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by K89AVL »

My cash out refi w/ NASB closed 11/1/21 (2.375%, 15 yr) and I’m conditionally approved w/ Better on a regular refinance (2%, 15 yr).

Does BofA match Better?

BofA saw my Better rate and basically said it was really good and that they may not be able to match, but that they could try if I wanted. My BofA contact said they had historically always been able to match Loan Estimates from anywhere. I considered moving money to BofA but the Better Amex $2k promotional credit more sense w/ my expected time in the home.
jbrown394
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:45 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jbrown394 »

Hi Gurus,

I am in the middle of a refinance with better (on a CA property). In addition to having to pay the real estate taxes for this year (Due Dec 10, 2021), I am being asked to also pay the installment for next year (Due Apr 11, 2022).

1. Are others in the same shoes ?
2. Is it not too far to be considered for this refinance (which is supposed to be closed by first week of December) ?
3. Is there anything that can be done to skip this requirement ?

Thanks a lot in advance
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

jbrown394 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:12 pm Hi Gurus,

I am in the middle of a refinance with better (on a CA property). In addition to having to pay the real estate taxes for this year (Due Dec 10, 2021), I am being asked to also pay the installment for next year (Due Apr 11, 2022).

1. Are others in the same shoes ?
2. Is it not too far to be considered for this refinance (which is supposed to be closed by first week of December) ?
3. Is there anything that can be done to skip this requirement ?

Thanks a lot in advance
Are you really being asked to pay it, or do you simply see it on the loan estimate and you haven’t gotten your closing disclosures yet? If you are basing this on a LE, it likely will drop by the time your disclosures are prepared.

If this is on your disclosures, what section is it in? Section F is managed by the closing/title agent, while Section G is handled by Better. Is the amount in Section G and is actually just a few months of initial funding vs. the actual April payment?

Assuming they are both in Section F of your closing disclosures and you are closing on December 10th, then yes, you should be able to simply call out that they have the semi-annual payment being collected even though it is due more than 60 days past closing; that should get them to remove it.
jbrown394
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:45 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jbrown394 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:53 pm
jbrown394 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:12 pm Hi Gurus,

I am in the middle of a refinance with better (on a CA property). In addition to having to pay the real estate taxes for this year (Due Dec 10, 2021), I am being asked to also pay the installment for next year (Due Apr 11, 2022).

1. Are others in the same shoes ?
2. Is it not too far to be considered for this refinance (which is supposed to be closed by first week of December) ?
3. Is there anything that can be done to skip this requirement ?

Thanks a lot in advance
Are you really being asked to pay it, or do you simply see it on the loan estimate and you haven’t gotten your closing disclosures yet? If you are basing this on a LE, it likely will drop by the time your disclosures are prepared.

If this is on your disclosures, what section is it in? Section F is managed by the closing/title agent, while Section G is handled by Better. Is the amount in Section G and is actually just a few months of initial funding vs. the actual April payment?

Assuming they are both in Section F of your closing disclosures and you are closing on December 10th, then yes, you should be able to simply call out that they have the semi-annual payment being collected even though it is due more than 60 days past closing; that should get them to remove it.
Thanks a lot for the quick reply, I got the following in the tasks section. Now, in our county, there are two installments for real estate tax, the first one is on Nov 1, 2021 and should be paid by Dec 10, 2021 (they have asked and I have already paid the first installment), the second installment is on Feb 1, 2022 and should be paid by Apr 11, 2022.

I locked the rate on Nov 8 (30-day lock), and as of now except the following new task there is nothing else pending from my side, so I suppose everything is moving well and I should be able to close in two weeks (I was told their average closing time is 3 weeks).

I did not get what you meant by disclosures, I have asked not to have an impound account and pay everything myself. In the loan estimate, section F (prepaids) shows property taxes (12 months), but section G, initial escrow shows 0.
After taking a look at your title report and tax certification, it seems like you owe $x in County Property Taxes to TAX COLLECTOR by 2/1/2022.

You have two options for paying this off. You can pay these taxes as part of your closing costs, in which case we don’t need any documents from you today. Otherwise, you can pay them off before closing. If you want to do this or if you’ve made a payment in the last day or so, we’ll need some documents to make sure the balance has been paid off.

You can provide:

receipt from TAX COLLECTOR showing payment
escrow disbursement notice from your current lender showing the money has been taken out of escrow to pay these taxes
picture of a cancelled check payable to TAX COLLECTOR
If you’re paying these taxes off in installments, we may need to add the installment payment to your closing costs. After all the installments are made, we’ll get confirmation from the title company and you’ll get reimbursed for any additional closing costs.
jbrown394
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:45 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jbrown394 »

ok, now I got it. I have NOT received a closing disclosure yet (I think I am supposed to get it three days before closing), I have not been told when the closing is going to occur yet. Also re-reading everything, if they really just accept a canceled check, I can prepare one, unless I am missing something. To my understanding a canceled check does not mean paying the county. Edit: I got it wrong ! A canceled check means a check that is paid and cleared (not a voided check), I should get it from the county. Long story short, it means that better is asking me to pay for the next installment, unless I can challenge them not to.
jbrown394 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:10 am
BrandonBogle wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:53 pm
jbrown394 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:12 pm Hi Gurus,

I am in the middle of a refinance with better (on a CA property). In addition to having to pay the real estate taxes for this year (Due Dec 10, 2021), I am being asked to also pay the installment for next year (Due Apr 11, 2022).

1. Are others in the same shoes ?
2. Is it not too far to be considered for this refinance (which is supposed to be closed by first week of December) ?
3. Is there anything that can be done to skip this requirement ?

Thanks a lot in advance
Are you really being asked to pay it, or do you simply see it on the loan estimate and you haven’t gotten your closing disclosures yet? If you are basing this on a LE, it likely will drop by the time your disclosures are prepared.

If this is on your disclosures, what section is it in? Section F is managed by the closing/title agent, while Section G is handled by Better. Is the amount in Section G and is actually just a few months of initial funding vs. the actual April payment?

Assuming they are both in Section F of your closing disclosures and you are closing on December 10th, then yes, you should be able to simply call out that they have the semi-annual payment being collected even though it is due more than 60 days past closing; that should get them to remove it.
Thanks a lot for the quick reply, I got the following in the tasks section. Now, in our county, there are two installments for real estate tax, the first one is on Nov 1, 2021 and should be paid by Dec 10, 2021 (they have asked and I have already paid the first installment), the second installment is on Feb 1, 2022 and should be paid by Apr 11, 2022.

I locked the rate on Nov 8 (30-day lock), and as of now except the following new task there is nothing else pending from my side, so I suppose everything is moving well and I should be able to close in two weeks (I was told their average closing time is 3 weeks).

I did not get what you meant by disclosures, I have asked not to have an impound account and pay everything myself. In the loan estimate, section F (prepaids) shows property taxes (12 months), but section G, initial escrow shows 0.
After taking a look at your title report and tax certification, it seems like you owe $x in County Property Taxes to TAX COLLECTOR by 2/1/2022.

You have two options for paying this off. You can pay these taxes as part of your closing costs, in which case we don’t need any documents from you today. Otherwise, you can pay them off before closing. If you want to do this or if you’ve made a payment in the last day or so, we’ll need some documents to make sure the balance has been paid off.

You can provide:

receipt from TAX COLLECTOR showing payment
escrow disbursement notice from your current lender showing the money has been taken out of escrow to pay these taxes
picture of a cancelled check payable to TAX COLLECTOR
If you’re paying these taxes off in installments, we may need to add the installment payment to your closing costs. After all the installments are made, we’ll get confirmation from the title company and you’ll get reimbursed for any additional closing costs.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

jbrown394 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:10 am Thanks a lot for the quick reply, I got the following in the tasks section. Now, in our county, there are two installments for real estate tax, the first one is on Nov 1, 2021 and should be paid by Dec 10, 2021 (they have asked and I have already paid the first installment), the second installment is on Feb 1, 2022 and should be paid by Apr 11, 2022.
That last bit is the key here. While it can be paid by April 11th without penalty, the due date is considered Feb 1st. Since that is within 60 days of closing, you are being asked to either pay for it in advance yourself, or have the closing agent collect it at closing to pay it on your behalf (this is regardless of having an impound/escrow account).

I get where you are coming from, but it is a sad technicality. As an analogy, some may say your mortgage payment isn’t due until the 15th. That is incorrect, it is due on the 1st and you have a penalty-free trace until the 15th. The same concept applies here, just with a wider window. Where I live, the tax bill comes with a “due date” of 9/1, but you have until Jan 2nd the next year to pay it without any penalty. I’ll let you guess which date the lenders use in determining if the payment is due within 60 days of closing.

That all said, you can ask if they would waive it since you it is 51 days away from closing. You may even find closing moves up before 12/1 and then you can definitely have this dropped.
jbrown394
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:45 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by jbrown394 »

Thanks a lot for the valuable comments. I did not know about the 60-day rule. It is clear now, let me reach my loan officer to get an estimate for the closing date. As you said if it can be done by Dec 1st, it can be dropped.

This was actually an strategy that I was considering to optimize for taxes over 2021 and 2022, but I did not want to be forced into it because of the refinance. I think I have already gotten a good deal ($600k, 15-year @1.75 with close to $500 credit and adding $2k from amex fully covers all the fees), I should not expect to win in all fronts.
BrandonBogle wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 7:34 am
jbrown394 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:10 am Thanks a lot for the quick reply, I got the following in the tasks section. Now, in our county, there are two installments for real estate tax, the first one is on Nov 1, 2021 and should be paid by Dec 10, 2021 (they have asked and I have already paid the first installment), the second installment is on Feb 1, 2022 and should be paid by Apr 11, 2022.
That last bit is the key here. While it can be paid by April 11th without penalty, the due date is considered Feb 1st. Since that is within 60 days of closing, you are being asked to either pay for it in advance yourself, or have the closing agent collect it at closing to pay it on your behalf (this is regardless of having an impound/escrow account).

I get where you are coming from, but it is a sad technicality. As an analogy, some may say your mortgage payment isn’t due until the 15th. That is incorrect, it is due on the 1st and you have a penalty-free trace until the 15th. The same concept applies here, just with a wider window. Where I live, the tax bill comes with a “due date” of 9/1, but you have until Jan 2nd the next year to pay it without any penalty. I’ll let you guess which date the lenders use in determining if the payment is due within 60 days of closing.

That all said, you can ask if they would waive it since you it is 51 days away from closing. You may even find closing moves up before 12/1 and then you can definitely have this dropped.
midebo
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:17 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by midebo »

Closing the loop on my Better refi:

Lock 9/17
Close 10/7
Funded 10/13
AmEx credit posted 10/22
Notified servicing would be transferred to Citizens Bank 11/2
First payment due 12/1
midebo wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:00 pm Hi folks,

Devoted lurker here, immensely thankful for all the tips on getting the best deal via Better and wanted to share my experience now that we have closed:

This was our 2nd refi in 18 months -- our first one, in the early weeks of the pandemic, took us from a 4.05% 30yr to a 3.25% 30yr. This time -- with lower rates, an increase in our household cash flow, and a desire to build equity faster -- we were able to move to a 20yr.

We ended up at 2.25% with $1,018 lender credit on a ~$540,000 loan on our single family primary residence in DC. Roughly 60% LTV, credit in 760s, appraisal waived. A+B+C+E=$1,905. We ended up writing a small check at close to keep our P&I at a nice even $2,800.

The whole process went smoothly from lock on 9/17 to close on 10/7. Loan was funded, as expected, on 10/13. I will update when AmEx credit is posted.
spammagnet
Posts: 2477
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:42 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by spammagnet »

jbrown394 wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:45 am Thanks a lot for the valuable comments. I did not know about the 60-day rule. It is clear now, let me reach my loan officer to get an estimate for the closing date. As you said if it can be done by Dec 1st, it can be dropped.

This was actually an strategy that I was considering to optimize for taxes over 2021 and 2022, but I did not want to be forced into it because of the refinance. I think I have already gotten a good deal ($600k, 15-year @1.75 with close to $500 credit and adding $2k from amex fully covers all the fees), I should not expect to win in all fronts.
In my county (FL), taxes aren't due until 3/31 but are billed on 11/1. Early payment results in a discount with payment by 11/30 resulting in the maximum discount. Escrow holders are required to pay by 11/30 to optimize the discount for the borrower. We closed on a refi (no escrow) on 11/2 and were required to pay the full amount at closing.
Blue Lander
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:13 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Blue Lander »

Greetings folks. I'm looking for Massachusetts specific information hopefully. I have tried my best to read through these refinance threads for my question, but the thread is just so huge now!

Current situation: 30 year mortgage, 3.375%, opened in 2013, about 8.5 years in. I have not refinanced since then, and hope there is a good chance now. I'm thinking I would like to refi and change to a 15 year.

What are the best refinance options for a 15 year fixed mortgage in Massachusetts? I'm also open to ARM's too.

It seems as if Better now offers refi in Massachusetts from what I can tell. Anyone with recent experience with them? Also would love to hear other possible options.

Obviously I'm looking for the best no costs/fees options, and with relatively painless closing (if that exists).

Please reply in the thread, or feel free to private message as well. Thanks in advance! :sharebeer
DMB41
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:55 pm
Location: Rocket City

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by DMB41 »

Blue Lander wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:12 pm Greetings folks. I'm looking for Massachusetts specific information hopefully. I have tried my best to read through these refinance threads for my question, but the thread is just so huge now!

Current situation: 30 year mortgage, 3.375%, opened in 2013, about 8.5 years in. I have not refinanced since then, and hope there is a good chance now. I'm thinking I would like to refi and change to a 15 year.

What are the best refinance options for a 15 year fixed mortgage in Massachusetts? I'm also open to ARM's too.

It seems as if Better now offers refi in Massachusetts from what I can tell. Anyone with recent experience with them? Also would love to hear other possible options.

Obviously I'm looking for the best no costs/fees options, and with relatively painless closing (if that exists).

Please reply in the thread, or feel free to private message as well. Thanks in advance! :sharebeer
A good first step would be to go over to Bankrate and Zillow and see what offers there are for your current situation. Those offers are typically pretty good. Compare the different loan terms and see what you think.
ensign_lee
Posts: 531
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:03 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ensign_lee »

Datapoint for those refinancing: Just wrapped up a 1.875% 15 year here in TX where lender's credits covered sections A-E. Went from a 2%, so the benefit was marginal, but I made $600 from that alone, and THEN made $2000 on top with the Amex credit, so as long as they're willing to pay me money for me to borrow money, why not?

Looking on bankrate now, you'd probably be looking at 2.125%.

Also, Radian IS approved for use with Better.com again - I know people were reporting that that business relationship got severed, but I was able to use them to lower my title costs by roughly $1k.
mmhere
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:55 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by mmhere »

ensign_lee wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:27 pm Datapoint for those refinancing: Just wrapped up a 1.875% 15 year here in TX where lender's credits covered sections A-E. Went from a 2%, so the benefit was marginal, but I made $600 from that alone, and THEN made $2000 on top with the Amex credit, so as long as they're willing to pay me money for me to borrow money, why not?

Looking on bankrate now, you'd probably be looking at 2.125%.

Also, Radian IS approved for use with Better.com again - I know people were reporting that that business relationship got severed, but I was able to use them to lower my title costs by roughly $1k.
What's the loan amount? I am getting much higher rates on Better
GammaPoint
Posts: 2661
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:25 am
Location: Washington

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GammaPoint »

Did a refinance with Better last month and everything went smoothly. Just received notice that my loan servicing was transferred from TMS to Specialized Loan Service. SLS has terrible reviews online so I hope I'm not in for any problems... :-|
vtg
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:48 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by vtg »

GammaPoint wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:59 pm Did a refinance with Better last month and everything went smoothly. Just received notice that my loan servicing was transferred from TMS to Specialized Loan Service. SLS has terrible reviews online so I hope I'm not in for any problems... :-|
As a fellow recent SLS transfer, I will just say - buckle up
GammaPoint
Posts: 2661
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:25 am
Location: Washington

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by GammaPoint »

vtg wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:21 pm As a fellow recent SLS transfer, I will just say - buckle up
Uh oh, anything in particular I should be on the watch for?
User avatar
changingtimes
Posts: 483
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by changingtimes »

Had not been looking to refinance again, having gotten to 2.75%/30 this time last year, but I began thinking about coming inflation, a change in my hours at work next year, and how much equity I have. Definitely not planning on moving for another 15 years or so, so I locked in with Better on a 2.5% (with 1.75 points) on a 30-year fixed with cash out that basically upped my mortgage by 1/3rd (but LTV still at about 35%). If we ignore last year's refinance, I am going from 3.125%/$1,530 a month payment to 2.5%/$1,480 a month payment with a big chunk of cash now available. I did get the AmEx credit as well.

I figure this is probably my last mortgage, so might as well go out with a flourish. :)
ensign_lee
Posts: 531
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:03 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ensign_lee »

mmhere wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:43 pm
ensign_lee wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:27 pm Datapoint for those refinancing: Just wrapped up a 1.875% 15 year here in TX where lender's credits covered sections A-E. Went from a 2%, so the benefit was marginal, but I made $600 from that alone, and THEN made $2000 on top with the Amex credit, so as long as they're willing to pay me money for me to borrow money, why not?

Looking on bankrate now, you'd probably be looking at 2.125%.

Also, Radian IS approved for use with Better.com again - I know people were reporting that that business relationship got severed, but I was able to use them to lower my title costs by roughly $1k.
What's the loan amount? I am getting much higher rates on Better
$360k on a $500k home. I think I'm right at the sweet spot I think of being large enough to be "worth it", but small enough that I'm not in jumbo loan territory.

My friend applied about the same time for a jumbo for a new purchase and was quoted about .25% higher for all her possible terms at the 15 year and 30 year possibilities. And her credit is BETTER than mine at 800+ while I'm at "only" 760
vtg
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:48 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by vtg »

GammaPoint wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:36 pm
Uh oh, anything in particular I should be on the watch for?
Watch your escrow closely, had to make multiple calls to get it setup right. One rep was literally wasted on the phone passing out, its a total disaster. The good news is the website makes it easy to keep track
Goal33
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

changingtimes wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 4:25 pm Had not been looking to refinance again, having gotten to 2.75%/30 this time last year, but I began thinking about coming inflation, a change in my hours at work next year, and how much equity I have. Definitely not planning on moving for another 15 years or so, so I locked in with Better on a 2.5% (with 1.75 points) on a 30-year fixed with cash out that basically upped my mortgage by 1/3rd (but LTV still at about 35%). If we ignore last year's refinance, I am going from 3.125%/$1,530 a month payment to 2.5%/$1,480 a month payment with a big chunk of cash now available. I did get the AmEx credit as well.

I figure this is probably my last mortgage, so might as well go out with a flourish. :)
I think you’re making a mistake and you’re better off doing nothing.
User avatar
changingtimes
Posts: 483
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by changingtimes »

Goal33 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:03 am I think you’re making a mistake and you’re better off doing nothing.
I get that, and am sure most Bogleheads feel that way. For the record, part of the cash out will be going to add parking and a charging station to my urban home that currently only has street parking available, something which absolutely will add value to the house. Even with the new higher mortgage, it will only be less than 11% of my net worth. And I file as single and itemize deductions, so I get a smidge of help there too.

I am not taking the cash out and buying Gamestop or crypto.
User avatar
BrandonBogle
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BrandonBogle »

changingtimes wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:46 am
Goal33 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:03 am I think you’re making a mistake and you’re better off doing nothing.
I get that, and am sure most Bogleheads feel that way. For the record, part of the cash out will be going to add parking and a charging station to my urban home that currently only has street parking available, something which absolutely will add value to the house. Even with the new higher mortgage, it will only be less than 11% of my net worth. And I file as single and itemize deductions, so I get a smidge of help there too.

I am not taking the cash out and buying Gamestop or crypto.
Have you considered getting a 15 year or maybe 2.625% or 2.75% on the 30-year? That $5k+ in points is a tough pill to swallow in my book.
Goal33
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

changingtimes wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:46 am
Goal33 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:03 am I think you’re making a mistake and you’re better off doing nothing.
I get that, and am sure most Bogleheads feel that way. For the record, part of the cash out will be going to add parking and a charging station to my urban home that currently only has street parking available, something which absolutely will add value to the house. Even with the new higher mortgage, it will only be less than 11% of my net worth. And I file as single and itemize deductions, so I get a smidge of help there too.

I am not taking the cash out and buying Gamestop or crypto.
The fact that this is such a small portion of your networth makes me think it makes even less sense.

I am afraid you may be a bit of a tinkerer :wink:

I’d slow petal. You’re paying points for something you can payoff without denting your networth. You may want more cash out in the future for other stuff, odds are you don’t keep this mortgage very long.
Goal33
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:51 am
changingtimes wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:46 am
Goal33 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:03 am I think you’re making a mistake and you’re better off doing nothing.
I get that, and am sure most Bogleheads feel that way. For the record, part of the cash out will be going to add parking and a charging station to my urban home that currently only has street parking available, something which absolutely will add value to the house. Even with the new higher mortgage, it will only be less than 11% of my net worth. And I file as single and itemize deductions, so I get a smidge of help there too.

I am not taking the cash out and buying Gamestop or crypto.
Have you considered getting a 15 year or maybe 2.625% or 2.75% on the 30-year? That $5k+ in points is a tough pill to swallow in my book.
Another good idea. If you’ve got extra cash, rather than pay points, reduce your rate organically with a 15 year.
User avatar
changingtimes
Posts: 483
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by changingtimes »

Goal33 wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:26 am
I am afraid you may be a bit of a tinkerer :wink:
Stipulated. :)
Scotttheking
Posts: 391
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Scotttheking »

vtg wrote: Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:20 pm
GammaPoint wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:36 pm
Uh oh, anything in particular I should be on the watch for?
Watch your escrow closely, had to make multiple calls to get it setup right. One rep was literally wasted on the phone passing out, its a total disaster. The good news is the website makes it easy to keep track
If one waived escrow is there any concern with this servicer? My better loan is closing next week.
Malum Prohibitum
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:08 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Malum Prohibitum »

So I have been reading, and reading, and I see this AMEX $2000 credit at Better. I do not have an AMEX. I take it I must apply for it before I go to Better and try to refinance. I see there are a couple with a $695 annual fee (ouch!) and one with a $0 fee the first year and $95 the second. Is there a certain card I need to use, or will the $0/$95 card suffice for this purpose?

Is there anything else I need to know?

Thank you in advance for your consideration of these questions.
Post Reply