Refinance Mega Thread

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gcc
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:20 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gcc »

InvestorDave wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:00 pm
gcc wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:54 am I'm having a problem getting Better to price match their offer on Bankrate

I see 2.5% 30-year 0 pt on bankrate, but my rates on better require $5,918 in points for the same 2.5%

When I asked Better to match they said they are unable to because the offers on Bankrate require that there be an existing loan of at least $10k. I have a paid off home.

So I've asked them to refinance for me twice - once at 3.x% where they give me ~$4.5k in credits, and then immediately at 2.5% 0 points

Still waiting on a reply
That could definitely be an issue if you don't have an existing mortgage. When I did a refi last year on my property with no mortgage I wasn't able to get as good of a rate because I didn't have an existing mortgage.
I'll share an update when I hear back on my double refi request
bluebolt
Posts: 2136
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:01 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bluebolt »

pindevil wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:58 pm Better had to switch title companies on me because our house is in a trust. The new title company will take the house out of the trust temporarily for the loan to complete. Once better completes the loan the title company will put the house back in the trust.

This is my first time dealing with this but I guess it's a normal part of the process. Anything I need to watch out for?
Confirm via the appropriate government web site (or whatever mechanism they provide), that the paperwork is filed correctly. Can take a few weeks to show up.

I've had two different title companies mess this up. They eventually fixed it after I noticed, but it took a bit of time to get it done.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

gcc wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:30 pm
InvestorDave wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:00 pm
gcc wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:54 am I'm having a problem getting Better to price match their offer on Bankrate

I see 2.5% 30-year 0 pt on bankrate, but my rates on better require $5,918 in points for the same 2.5%

When I asked Better to match they said they are unable to because the offers on Bankrate require that there be an existing loan of at least $10k. I have a paid off home.

So I've asked them to refinance for me twice - once at 3.x% where they give me ~$4.5k in credits, and then immediately at 2.5% 0 points

Still waiting on a reply
That could definitely be an issue if you don't have an existing mortgage. When I did a refi last year on my property with no mortgage I wasn't able to get as good of a rate because I didn't have an existing mortgage.
I'll share an update when I hear back on my double refi request
You may try to do a no cost somewhere else like loandepot or lenderfi and then do Better.
chazas
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:22 pm
Location: NoVa

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chazas »

bluebolt wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:42 pm
pindevil wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:58 pm Better had to switch title companies on me because our house is in a trust. The new title company will take the house out of the trust temporarily for the loan to complete. Once better completes the loan the title company will put the house back in the trust.

This is my first time dealing with this but I guess it's a normal part of the process. Anything I need to watch out for?
Confirm via the appropriate government web site (or whatever mechanism they provide), that the paperwork is filed correctly. Can take a few weeks to show up.

I've had two different title companies mess this up. They eventually fixed it after I noticed, but it took a bit of time to get it done.
Better Settlements refused to put mine back in the trust. I decided no biggie, I’ll replicate the original deed prepared by my estate planning attorney and walk it down to the courthouse myself.
presto987
Posts: 487
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:58 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:00 pm
BrandonBogle wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:49 pm
tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:34 pm
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:26 pm
tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:51 am

I'd screenshot the 15 year 1.75%, although it's only negligibly different than the 15 year 1.875.
One more question - should I screenshot the rate that shows the highest difference in point values between Bankrate and my rate table on Better? For example, the difference between two sites for 1.75% is about $3,600 (15 yr term) whereas for 2.375%, it is about $4,800 (30 yr term). Should I send the screenshot of 2.375% hoping that it'd result in more rewarding adjustment on the whole rate table?

Also, I remember reading earlier that you are free to select whichever term/rate that they show in their portal, not just what you negotiate on. Am I correct?
on the bolded, that's correct. Perhaps BrandonBogle will chime in on the rest.
Probably my last chime in for a bit as I’m a plane off the continent at the moment! Lol.

Yes, you can change the rate and term up to closing. You can also submit a competing LE for any rate and term (available to you) up to closing.
What do you think about the first part of the question? Should I submit a screenshot showing the greatest difference between Bankrate and their rate table?

Safe travels, and thanks for your help!
Yes, that seems like the strategy that has been working the best for people. Find the rate and term combination where Bankrate shows the biggest improvement compared to your rate table, and use that one to request the price match.
pindevil
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:04 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by pindevil »

chazas wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:36 pm
bluebolt wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:42 pm
pindevil wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:58 pm Better had to switch title companies on me because our house is in a trust. The new title company will take the house out of the trust temporarily for the loan to complete. Once better completes the loan the title company will put the house back in the trust.

This is my first time dealing with this but I guess it's a normal part of the process. Anything I need to watch out for?
Confirm via the appropriate government web site (or whatever mechanism they provide), that the paperwork is filed correctly. Can take a few weeks to show up.

I've had two different title companies mess this up. They eventually fixed it after I noticed, but it took a bit of time to get it done.
Better Settlements refused to put mine back in the trust. I decided no biggie, I’ll replicate the original deed prepared by my estate planning attorney and walk it down to the courthouse myself.
Did they at any point tell you they would take care of it but then backed out later? Right now they are telling me it will be taken care of by the new title company they found.
chazas
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:22 pm
Location: NoVa

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chazas »

pindevil wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:37 pm
chazas wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:36 pm
bluebolt wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:42 pm
pindevil wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:58 pm Better had to switch title companies on me because our house is in a trust. The new title company will take the house out of the trust temporarily for the loan to complete. Once better completes the loan the title company will put the house back in the trust.

This is my first time dealing with this but I guess it's a normal part of the process. Anything I need to watch out for?
Confirm via the appropriate government web site (or whatever mechanism they provide), that the paperwork is filed correctly. Can take a few weeks to show up.

I've had two different title companies mess this up. They eventually fixed it after I noticed, but it took a bit of time to get it done.
Better Settlements refused to put mine back in the trust. I decided no biggie, I’ll replicate the original deed prepared by my estate planning attorney and walk it down to the courthouse myself.
Did they at any point tell you they would take care of it but then backed out later? Right now they are telling me it will be taken care of by the new title company they found.
Nope, they just told me no.
newbie20
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

presto987 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:49 pm
Yes, that seems like the strategy that has been working the best for people. Find the rate and term combination where Bankrate shows the biggest improvement compared to your rate table, and use that one to request the price match.
Thanks, just sent in a screenshot showing the largest difference of about $4,900. Hoping for the best!
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truenyer
Posts: 406
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by truenyer »

I just created a new Better account, then compared the Better rates with Bankrate:

Code: Select all

Term	Rate	Better	Bankrate	Difference
30	2.250%	$10,180	$3,195 		($6,985)
30	2.375%	$5,320 	$0 		($5,320)
30	2.500%	$1,566 	N/A	
30	2.625%	$2,376 	N/A	
15	1.750%	$2,765 	$0 		($2,765)
15	1.875%	($816)	N/A	
In the end I want a 15-year at 1.75%, but want to get lender credit. Should I have them match the 30-year 2.25%, to "reset" the rate table to get credit on the 1.75% 15-year?
newbie20
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

truenyer wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:07 pm I just created a new Better account, then compared the Better rates with Bankrate:

Code: Select all

Term	Rate	Better	Bankrate	Difference
30	2.250%	$10,180	$3,195 		($6,985)
30	2.375%	$5,320 	$0 		($5,320)
30	2.500%	$1,566 	N/A	
30	2.625%	$2,376 	N/A	
15	1.750%	$2,765 	$0 		($2,765)
15	1.875%	($816)	N/A	
In the end I want a 15-year at 1.75%, but want to get lender credit. Should I have them match the 30-year 2.25%, to "reset" the rate table to get credit on the 1.75% 15-year?
Is there a way to see more rates on Better? My rate table for 30 yr begins at 2.375%, not 2.25%. I suspect if I could see 2.25% on Better then that might be the point of highest difference between Better and Bankrate. I have already sent a screenshot but if I could see that then perhaps I could send them one more before they get into office.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:28 pm
truenyer wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:07 pm I just created a new Better account, then compared the Better rates with Bankrate:

Code: Select all

Term	Rate	Better	Bankrate	Difference
30	2.250%	$10,180	$3,195 		($6,985)
30	2.375%	$5,320 	$0 		($5,320)
30	2.500%	$1,566 	N/A	
30	2.625%	$2,376 	N/A	
15	1.750%	$2,765 	$0 		($2,765)
15	1.875%	($816)	N/A	
In the end I want a 15-year at 1.75%, but want to get lender credit. Should I have them match the 30-year 2.25%, to "reset" the rate table to get credit on the 1.75% 15-year?
Is there a way to see more rates on Better? My rate table for 30 yr begins at 2.375%, not 2.25%. I suspect if I could see 2.25% on Better then that might be the point of highest difference between Better and Bankrate. I have already sent a screenshot but if I could see that then perhaps I could send them one more before they get into office.
Better shows way more rates on their own site than they do on Bankrate.
newbie20
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:24 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:36 pm
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:28 pm
truenyer wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:07 pm I just created a new Better account, then compared the Better rates with Bankrate:

Code: Select all

Term	Rate	Better	Bankrate	Difference
30	2.250%	$10,180	$3,195 		($6,985)
30	2.375%	$5,320 	$0 		($5,320)
30	2.500%	$1,566 	N/A	
30	2.625%	$2,376 	N/A	
15	1.750%	$2,765 	$0 		($2,765)
15	1.875%	($816)	N/A	
In the end I want a 15-year at 1.75%, but want to get lender credit. Should I have them match the 30-year 2.25%, to "reset" the rate table to get credit on the 1.75% 15-year?
Is there a way to see more rates on Better? My rate table for 30 yr begins at 2.375%, not 2.25%. I suspect if I could see 2.25% on Better then that might be the point of highest difference between Better and Bankrate. I have already sent a screenshot but if I could see that then perhaps I could send them one more before they get into office.
Better shows way more rates on their own site than they do on Bankrate.
Yes, I do see that. However, the rate table on Better portal seems to begin at 2.375% in my case. Is there any way to make it show 2.25% or lower?
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:06 pm
tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:36 pm
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:28 pm
truenyer wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:07 pm I just created a new Better account, then compared the Better rates with Bankrate:

Code: Select all

Term	Rate	Better	Bankrate	Difference
30	2.250%	$10,180	$3,195 		($6,985)
30	2.375%	$5,320 	$0 		($5,320)
30	2.500%	$1,566 	N/A	
30	2.625%	$2,376 	N/A	
15	1.750%	$2,765 	$0 		($2,765)
15	1.875%	($816)	N/A	
In the end I want a 15-year at 1.75%, but want to get lender credit. Should I have them match the 30-year 2.25%, to "reset" the rate table to get credit on the 1.75% 15-year?
Is there a way to see more rates on Better? My rate table for 30 yr begins at 2.375%, not 2.25%. I suspect if I could see 2.25% on Better then that might be the point of highest difference between Better and Bankrate. I have already sent a screenshot but if I could see that then perhaps I could send them one more before they get into office.
Better shows way more rates on their own site than they do on Bankrate.
Yes, I do see that. However, the rate table on Better portal seems to begin at 2.375% in my case. Is there any way to make it show 2.25% or lower?
If it doesn't show, I doubt it. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to have them match a 2.25% from Bankrate though, if Bankrate shows that rate for that term.
elle
Posts: 215
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:13 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by elle »

Just wanted to update since I had an interesting experience that contradicts what many people are getting/seeing with better.

I got a LE from loandepot @ 20yr/2.5% 750k.

Better just got back to me and said they couldn't match or beat, recommending that I go with loandepot. That said, they were able to match Bankrate quickly and easily (within a couple hours). My first inquiry with Better for a refi, resulted in almost NO communication and days worth of wait on whether they could match/beat loandepot. I just got fed up and created a new account. This LO was WAAAAY better - super happy with the communication but sad they couldn't match.

Going with loandepot for this one because you just can't beat the rate!
BogleHead1008
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2021 8:44 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by BogleHead1008 »

elle wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:14 pm Just wanted to update since I had an interesting experience that contradicts what many people are getting/seeing with better.

I got a LE from loandepot @ 20yr/2.5% 750k.

Better just got back to me and said they couldn't match or beat, recommending that I go with loandepot. That said, they were able to match Bankrate quickly and easily (within a couple hours). My first inquiry with Better for a refi, resulted in almost NO communication and days worth of wait on whether they could match/beat loandepot. I just got fed up and created a new account. This LO was WAAAAY better - super happy with the communication but sad they couldn't match.

Going with loandepot for this one because you just can't beat the rate!
IF LD is offering a better rate you should go with it.

Does LoanDepot pull the CR's before giving you the rate?
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

elle wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:14 pm Just wanted to update since I had an interesting experience that contradicts what many people are getting/seeing with better.

I got a LE from loandepot @ 20yr/2.5% 750k.

Better just got back to me and said they couldn't match or beat, recommending that I go with loandepot. That said, they were able to match Bankrate quickly and easily (within a couple hours). My first inquiry with Better for a refi, resulted in almost NO communication and days worth of wait on whether they could match/beat loandepot. I just got fed up and created a new account. This LO was WAAAAY better - super happy with the communication but sad they couldn't match.

Going with loandepot for this one because you just can't beat the rate!
You're saying that loandepot's initial rate quote was already better than Better's on bankrate?
frugalNY
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:26 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by frugalNY »

av111 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:42 am
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am
Goal33 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 am
rage_phish wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:14 am Wow that’s great

Anyone refinancing loans around $622k

We’re trying to get under 3% without paying anything
That should be easy to accomplish for a 30 year or 15. Assuming you’re in the high balance conforming range, and not jumbo for your area.
I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
Check Ally. Recently locked in with them at 2.625 7/6m for a 1.8m loan with 16k lender credit
Just checked Ally. Apparently they don’t do home loan in NY. So far Better, LD, Lenderfi and Ally all are NO for one reason or another. Any other lender I can try? Thanks all.
gcc
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:20 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by gcc »

tj wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:26 pm
gcc wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:30 pm
InvestorDave wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:00 pm
gcc wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:54 am I'm having a problem getting Better to price match their offer on Bankrate

I see 2.5% 30-year 0 pt on bankrate, but my rates on better require $5,918 in points for the same 2.5%

When I asked Better to match they said they are unable to because the offers on Bankrate require that there be an existing loan of at least $10k. I have a paid off home.

So I've asked them to refinance for me twice - once at 3.x% where they give me ~$4.5k in credits, and then immediately at 2.5% 0 points

Still waiting on a reply
That could definitely be an issue if you don't have an existing mortgage. When I did a refi last year on my property with no mortgage I wasn't able to get as good of a rate because I didn't have an existing mortgage.
I'll share an update when I hear back on my double refi request
You may try to do a no cost somewhere else like loandepot or lenderfi and then do Better.
Yes working that angle too!
bws
Posts: 56
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:54 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bws »

frugalNY wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:52 pm
av111 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:42 am
anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:16 pm
frugalNY wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:55 am
Goal33 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:14 am

That should be easy to accomplish for a 30 year or 15. Assuming you’re in the high balance conforming range, and not jumbo for your area.
I've had zero luck so far :? My current rate is 30 yr fixed at 2.99 and currently shorpping. Here is my experience.

I've 653K loan for a 1.2m house with both over 800 credit score but neither Better or Loan Depot were able to get me measly 2.75 at no cost. Not sure what to do from here. Which other lender to reach out :confused
Is this a jumbo? If not, does LenderFi operate where you are?
Check Ally. Recently locked in with them at 2.625 7/6m for a 1.8m loan with 16k lender credit
Just checked Ally. Apparently they don’t do home loan in NY. So far Better, LD, Lenderfi and Ally all are NO for one reason or another. Any other lender I can try? Thanks all.
How about Watermark Home Loans.
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

I am comparing two quotes: Better and Interfirst. For some reason Interfirst kept arguing their quote is better. I fail to see Interfirst's argument being valid. Am I missing something?

Interfirst argues that their quote is better because of 0.01% improvement in rate, and a lower "closing costs." I put "closing costs" in bracket because their quote is lower mainly because of estimated prepaids and initial escrows even though they don't offer any lender's credit. Also they don't have the AmEx $2k credit.

I thought F and G are just estimates and they all will come to the roughly the same numbers anyways, depending when the estimated closing date is in the month, etc. loan amount is $214k

Better Mortgage
Rate = 2.00% 15 years
A = 0
B = 64
C = 880
D = A+B+C = 944
E = 110
F = 3992
G = 4303
H = 0 ($2000 paid out of closing, AmEx credit)
I = E+F+G+H = 8405
J = D + I = 9349 - lender's credit 1928 = 7241



Interfirst
Rate = 1.99% 15 years
A = 0
B = 0
C = 988
D = A+B+C = 988
E = 115
F = 186
G = 5198
H = 0
I = E+F+G+H = 5487
J = D + I = 6475 (no lender's credit)
MrJedi
Posts: 3538
Joined: Wed May 06, 2020 11:42 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by MrJedi »

bestisfree wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:20 am I am comparing two quotes: Better and Interfirst. For some reason Interfirst kept arguing their quote is better. I fail to see Interfirst's argument being valid. Am I missing something?

Interfirst argues that their quote is better because of 0.01% improvement in rate, and a lower "closing costs." I put "closing costs" in bracket because their quote is lower mainly because of estimated prepaids and initial escrows even though they don't offer any lender's credit. Also they don't have the AmEx $2k credit.

I thought F and G are just estimates and they all will come to the roughly the same numbers anyways, depending when the estimated closing date is in the month, etc. loan amount is $214k

Better Mortgage
Rate = 2.00% 15 years
A = 0
B = 64
C = 880
D = A+B+C = 944
E = 110
F = 3992
G = 4303
H = 0 ($2000 paid out of closing, AmEx credit)
I = E+F+G+H = 8405
J = D + I = 9349 - lender's credit 1928 = 7241



Interfirst
Rate = 1.99% 15 years
A = 0
B = 0
C = 988
D = A+B+C = 988
E = 115
F = 186
G = 5198
H = 0
I = E+F+G+H = 5487
J = D + I = 6475 (no lender's credit)
I agree with you. Better is the better deal even without the Amex credit. You're right sections F and G should not factor into the analysis since you will be paying that money regardless, even without a refi; it's just a matter of timing.
Cycle
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cycle »

Why are bankrate rates in Colorado springs lower than Minnesota with Better?

I search various zips around the state of Mn, and they all are 1.875% rates, but elsewhere in the country, like Colorado Springs, Better offers 1.750%. 1.750 is my target, as I'm currently at 2.125
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
Cycle
Posts: 2047
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 7:57 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cycle »

Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:46 am Why are bankrate rates in Colorado springs lower than Minnesota with Better?

I search various zips around the state of Mn, and they all are 1.875% rates, but elsewhere in the country, like Colorado Springs, Better offers 1.750%. 1.750 is my target, as I'm currently at 2.125
Weird i entered my zip and now it's showing 1.750 for Minnesota via better. That's good.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
ymmt
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:59 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ymmt »

I don't see Better advertising their rates on Bankrate anymore. Anyone else notice this?

Never mind! Must've been a temporary glitch.
Last edited by ymmt on Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
tj
Posts: 9317
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

ymmt wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:29 am I don't see Better advertising their rates on Bankrate anymore. Anyone else notice this?
Still shows up for me. Their pricing seems a bit worse though. Aimloan seems to be priced better.
Goal33
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2015 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

Looks like my pricing improved slightly on bankrate today for Better.com

I locked on Friday.

Do I ask the Loan Officer to send me my rate tables? Compare, and ask for another price match for a different rate, ask for an updated rate table, and then pick my desired different rate again? Do they still compete against themselves after locking rate?
All_About_Benjis
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:28 am

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by All_About_Benjis »

We are currently about 1 year into a 30-yr mortgage at 2.875%. We are looking to refi to a 30-year at 2.625%.

I used an offer from LenderFi to get a more favorable offer from better. This is where I currently am with Better, and I wanted to know if this raises flags for anyone:

A: $0
B: $64
C: $2846
D (A+B+C): $2910
E:$188
Lender Credit: $4328

We'd also be able to get the $2,000 statement credit from Amex. My understanding is this should net us ~$3000.

Any reason I shouldn't pull the trigger?
bestisfree
Posts: 137
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:30 pm

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by bestisfree »

Goal33 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:40 am Looks like my pricing improved slightly on bankrate today for Better.com

I locked on Friday.

Do I ask the Loan Officer to send me my rate tables? Compare, and ask for another price match for a different rate, ask for an updated rate table, and then pick my desired different rate again? Do they still compete against themselves after locking rate?
I would like to know as well. From reading the thread in the last few pages it looks like you have a chance of adjustment if

1. You show a competitor's loan estimate
2. Better's own rate table improves by a certain amount (not sure how you would know, unless you ask for it) - float down

If the answer to Goal33's question is affirmative, then that would be a third, and considerably easier way than either 1 or 2 i think.
chazas
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:22 pm
Location: NoVa

Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by chazas »

bestisfree wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:23 pm
Goal33 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:40 am Looks like my pricing improved slightly on bankrate today for Better.com

I locked on Friday.

Do I ask the Loan Officer to send me my rate tables? Compare, and ask for another price match for a different rate, ask for an updated rate table, and then pick my desired different rate again? Do they still compete against themselves after locking rate?
I would like to know as well. From reading the thread in the last few pages it looks like you have a chance of adjustment if

1. You show a competitor's loan estimate
2. Better's own rate table improves by a certain amount (not sure how you would know, unless you ask for it) - float down

If the answer to Goal33's question is affirmative, then that would be a third, and considerably easier way than either 1 or 2 i think.
In my experience they will not match anything or otherwise lower your rate once you lock. They will only float down under terms that are very unlikely to happen.
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truenyer
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Post by truenyer »

bestisfree wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:23 pm
Goal33 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:40 am Looks like my pricing improved slightly on bankrate today for Better.com

I locked on Friday.

Do I ask the Loan Officer to send me my rate tables? Compare, and ask for another price match for a different rate, ask for an updated rate table, and then pick my desired different rate again? Do they still compete against themselves after locking rate?
I would like to know as well. From reading the thread in the last few pages it looks like you have a chance of adjustment if

1. You show a competitor's loan estimate
2. Better's own rate table improves by a certain amount (not sure how you would know, unless you ask for it) - float down

If the answer to Goal33's question is affirmative, then that would be a third, and considerably easier way than either 1 or 2 i think.
Just spoke to my LO about this... Currently those are the only two options. Their pricing team won't change your rate table with their own new rates. Kind of dumb, because I still want to do business with them. But whatever.
ymmt
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Post by ymmt »

Personally am fine with what I locked in earlier; don't want to get too greedy.

Printing 1.75% for 15yrs, and they're paying me to do it... unbelievable times we live in.

I normally pay down extra principal every month towards my mortgage to work down the balance. I don't think I can justify it with such a low cost of financing.
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Post by truenyer »

ymmt wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 pm Personally am fine with what I locked in earlier; don't want to get too greedy.

Printing 1.75% for 15yrs, and they're paying me to do it... unbelievable times we live in.

I normally pay down extra principal every month towards my mortgage to work down the balance. I don't think I can justify it with such a low cost of financing.
This is what I've struggled with. A financial advisor once told me to never pay down debt that has a lower interest rate than inflation; a boat we are all in currently. But the thought of not having a mortgage? Priceless.
All_About_Benjis
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by All_About_Benjis »

truenyer wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:34 pm
ymmt wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 pm Personally am fine with what I locked in earlier; don't want to get too greedy.

Printing 1.75% for 15yrs, and they're paying me to do it... unbelievable times we live in.

I normally pay down extra principal every month towards my mortgage to work down the balance. I don't think I can justify it with such a low cost of financing.
This is what I've struggled with. A financial advisor once told me to never pay down debt that has a lower interest rate than inflation; a boat we are all in currently. But the thought of not having a mortgage? Priceless.
We aren't paying down early, but instead investing the money in our taxable account at our asset allocation. Once our taxable account reaches the level where we can pay off the rest of our principal, we'll have the discussion about whether or not to do it. I figure we are about 3-5 years from that point (assuming no market crash).
Cycle
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Post by Cycle »

Better offered me 15yr 1.75% if I pay $227 in origination charg (points).. This will give me $61 in monthly savings.

Or I could take a $2k credit and be at 1.875%. $41 in monthly savings.

I've also shared the 1.75 quote with loan depot. Plus I can do the amex deal at better, which would cover loan fees / taxes of either.

I'm currently at 2.125%. We plan to be here for 3yrs, but I could see us moving in 5 yrs due to be aging parents and FIRE

Should I take the lower rate (1.75) or $2k credit (1.875)?
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Goal33 »

Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:47 pm Better offered me 15yr 1.75% if I pay $227 in origination charg (points).. This will give me $61 in monthly savings.

Or I could take a $2k credit and be at 1.875%. $41 in monthly savings.

I've also shared the 1.75 quote with loan depot. Plus I can do the amex deal at better, which would cover loan fees / taxes of either.

I'm currently at 2.125%. We plan to be here for 3yrs, but I could see us moving in 5 yrs due to be aging parents and FIRE

Should I take the lower rate (1.75) or $2k credit (1.875)?
You should take the 1.875%, but in case you need math to justify it... $20*36 = $720 ... $720 < $2000
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BrandonBogle
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Post by BrandonBogle »

Goal33 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:52 pm
Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:47 pm Better offered me 15yr 1.75% if I pay $227 in origination charg (points).. This will give me $61 in monthly savings.

Or I could take a $2k credit and be at 1.875%. $41 in monthly savings.

I've also shared the 1.75 quote with loan depot. Plus I can do the amex deal at better, which would cover loan fees / taxes of either.

I'm currently at 2.125%. We plan to be here for 3yrs, but I could see us moving in 5 yrs due to be aging parents and FIRE

Should I take the lower rate (1.75) or $2k credit (1.875)?
You should take the 1.875%, but in case you need math to justify it... $20*36 = $720 ... $720 < $2000
I would take 2% instead of either 1.75% or 1.875%. :)
tj
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Post by tj »

newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:04 pm
presto987 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:49 pm
Yes, that seems like the strategy that has been working the best for people. Find the rate and term combination where Bankrate shows the biggest improvement compared to your rate table, and use that one to request the price match.
Thanks, just sent in a screenshot showing the largest difference of about $4,900. Hoping for the best!
Let us know how it works out.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cycle »

BrandonBogle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:53 pm
Goal33 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:52 pm
Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:47 pm Better offered me 15yr 1.75% if I pay $227 in origination charg (points).. This will give me $61 in monthly savings.

Or I could take a $2k credit and be at 1.875%. $41 in monthly savings.

I've also shared the 1.75 quote with loan depot. Plus I can do the amex deal at better, which would cover loan fees / taxes of either.

I'm currently at 2.125%. We plan to be here for 3yrs, but I could see us moving in 5 yrs due to be aging parents and FIRE

Should I take the lower rate (1.75) or $2k credit (1.875)?
You should take the 1.875%, but in case you need math to justify it... $20*36 = $720 ... $720 < $2000
I would take 2% instead of either 1.75% or 1.875%. :)
Thanks, I did need the math.

1.875 credit is $2160
2.0 credit is $4475

Plus I get the amex credit. Probably do max credit, still waiting to see how home depot responds in case I can leverage anything there
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
ymmt
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ymmt »

All_About_Benjis wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:44 pm
truenyer wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:34 pm
ymmt wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 pm Personally am fine with what I locked in earlier; don't want to get too greedy.

Printing 1.75% for 15yrs, and they're paying me to do it... unbelievable times we live in.

I normally pay down extra principal every month towards my mortgage to work down the balance. I don't think I can justify it with such a low cost of financing.
This is what I've struggled with. A financial advisor once told me to never pay down debt that has a lower interest rate than inflation; a boat we are all in currently. But the thought of not having a mortgage? Priceless.
We aren't paying down early, but instead investing the money in our taxable account at our asset allocation. Once our taxable account reaches the level where we can pay off the rest of our principal, we'll have the discussion about whether or not to do it. I figure we are about 3-5 years from that point (assuming no market crash).
I've viewed paydowns as basically a part of my allocation to fixed income (but a little better given higher mortgage rates vs bond yields). Going forward we will probably do the same thing as you whereby the extra paydowns will actually be made to my taxable account and grown.

It's similar to the dilemma people are facing doing a normal 60/40 portfolio where the 40% bond allocation is running up against the yield floor with little upside.
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Post by Jags4186 »

presto987 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:47 pm There is hope that you might get a refund. Most likely they will sell the loan to Fannie after August 1, which means that they will not incur the fee, even though they priced the fee into your loan. If they decide to be as customer-friendly as they were last year, they will send you a check.

Other lenders haven't done this, but there is precedent for Better doing it, so fingers crossed.
My loan funds today, does this mean it wouldn’t be sold for a few days or once its funded I’m done?
presto987
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by presto987 »

Jags4186 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:09 pm
presto987 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:47 pm There is hope that you might get a refund. Most likely they will sell the loan to Fannie after August 1, which means that they will not incur the fee, even though they priced the fee into your loan. If they decide to be as customer-friendly as they were last year, they will send you a check.

Other lenders haven't done this, but there is precedent for Better doing it, so fingers crossed.
My loan funds today, does this mean it wouldn’t be sold for a few days or once its funded I’m done?
It takes some time -- probably at least a week or two -- for the lender to sell the loan to Fannie.

My LD loan that closed at the beginning of the month still hasn't been sold. And I recall that they were pretty prompt about selling back in December. I bet once the news came out about the fee being removed, they paused selling anything until August 1.
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:55 pm
newbie20 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:04 pm
presto987 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:49 pm
Yes, that seems like the strategy that has been working the best for people. Find the rate and term combination where Bankrate shows the biggest improvement compared to your rate table, and use that one to request the price match.
Thanks, just sent in a screenshot showing the largest difference of about $4,900. Hoping for the best!
Let us know how it works out.
I guess I've hit an unexpected snag. They got back just now saying, "It appears that we have a HELOC subordination on file so we cannot honor the BankRate pricing. Do you have time today to review your application with my team?". The HELOC in question has a zero balance. I don't know if this is just a ploy for them to talk to me on the phone or if it is something one of you have experienced before.

I have replied to him pointing out the $0 balance and saying that I plan to close the HELOC if everything works out. Let's see if they will accept that.

Your suggestions/ideas are always appreciated!
ymmt
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by ymmt »

newbie20 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:53 pm
I guess I've hit an unexpected snag. They got back just now saying, "It appears that we have a HELOC subordination on file so we cannot honor the BankRate pricing. Do you have time today to review your application with my team?". The HELOC in question has a zero balance. I don't know if this is just a ploy for them to talk to me on the phone or if it is something one of you have experienced before.

I have replied to him pointing out the $0 balance and saying that I plan to close the HELOC if everything works out. Let's see if they will accept that.

Your suggestions/ideas are always appreciated!
Doesn't matter if it's zero balance. To be conservative they have it view it as fully drawn. Your promise means nothing to them.
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Post by newbie20 »

ymmt wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:03 pm
newbie20 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:53 pm
I guess I've hit an unexpected snag. They got back just now saying, "It appears that we have a HELOC subordination on file so we cannot honor the BankRate pricing. Do you have time today to review your application with my team?". The HELOC in question has a zero balance. I don't know if this is just a ploy for them to talk to me on the phone or if it is something one of you have experienced before.

I have replied to him pointing out the $0 balance and saying that I plan to close the HELOC if everything works out. Let's see if they will accept that.

Your suggestions/ideas are always appreciated!
Doesn't matter if it's zero balance. To be conservative they have it view it as fully drawn. Your promise means nothing to them.
I see. I guess it makes sense to make that assumption from their perspective. On the other hand, I have had HELOCs with zero balance previously when I refinanced and told the new lender that I'd close it before our closing. They didn't seem to mind that.

So, is this something new (that they won't match the Bankrate offers if there is a HELOC)? Or, have others experienced the same response from them?
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by KNMLHD »

newbie20 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:10 pm
ymmt wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:03 pm
newbie20 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:53 pm
I guess I've hit an unexpected snag. They got back just now saying, "It appears that we have a HELOC subordination on file so we cannot honor the BankRate pricing. Do you have time today to review your application with my team?". The HELOC in question has a zero balance. I don't know if this is just a ploy for them to talk to me on the phone or if it is something one of you have experienced before.

I have replied to him pointing out the $0 balance and saying that I plan to close the HELOC if everything works out. Let's see if they will accept that.

Your suggestions/ideas are always appreciated!
Doesn't matter if it's zero balance. To be conservative they have it view it as fully drawn. Your promise means nothing to them.
I see. I guess it makes sense to make that assumption from their perspective. On the other hand, I have had HELOCs with zero balance previously when I refinanced and told the new lender that I'd close it before our closing. They didn't seem to mind that.

So, is this something new (that they won't match the Bankrate offers if there is a HELOC)? Or, have others experienced the same response from them?
Until the HELOC is closed, the HELOC lender remains on the title (which necessitates the need for a subordination). The only way to remove them is to fully close the HELOC, which will then kick off a letter to the title company indicating removal of the lender from your title. Without this, the lender, regardless of the balance, remains on the title, forcing a subordination.

If you do close it out, have the lender issue you a letter indicating that it is closed, balance is 0, etc. That letter "should" be good enough to get things "unstuck" from a subordination process. It may take a few days to a couple weeks to get the HELOC lender off the title itself.
newbie20
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by newbie20 »

KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:47 pm
Until the HELOC is closed, the HELOC lender remains on the title (which necessitates the need for a subordination). The only way to remove them is to fully close the HELOC, which will then kick off a letter to the title company indicating removal of the lender from your title. Without this, the lender, regardless of the balance, remains on the title, forcing a subordination.

If you do close it out, have the lender issue you a letter indicating that it is closed, balance is 0, etc. That letter "should" be good enough to get things "unstuck" from a subordination process. It may take a few days to a couple weeks to get the HELOC lender off the title itself.
Your explanation makes sense for the title process but what I don't understand is why does/should it prevent Better from offering price matching on their Bankrate offers? I am also curious to see if others in forum have experienced this situation.
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Post by truenyer »

newbie20 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:53 pm
KNMLHD wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:47 pm
Until the HELOC is closed, the HELOC lender remains on the title (which necessitates the need for a subordination). The only way to remove them is to fully close the HELOC, which will then kick off a letter to the title company indicating removal of the lender from your title. Without this, the lender, regardless of the balance, remains on the title, forcing a subordination.

If you do close it out, have the lender issue you a letter indicating that it is closed, balance is 0, etc. That letter "should" be good enough to get things "unstuck" from a subordination process. It may take a few days to a couple weeks to get the HELOC lender off the title itself.
Your explanation makes sense for the title process but what I don't understand is why does/should it prevent Better from offering price matching on their Bankrate offers? I am also curious to see if others in forum have experienced this situation.
Change your Bankrate inputs to match your current LTV, including the line of credit available. That might push your LTV over a limit of theirs. If adding the HELOC to your existing loan balance on bankrate doesn't change their rates, then I would push back on Better.
Cycle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cycle »

My previous lender just sent out a lengthly email explaining when one can refinance. This lender also refused to lower my rate after locking when a lower rate was available. They will unfortunately be getting a clawback on their commish
How Soon Can I Refinance?
I hope that you and your family are doing well and having a safe summer.

As rates have dropped over the past few months, I have received many questions regarding how soon a mortgage customer can refinance after recently closing on a mortgage. The purpose of my email is to help you understand the answer to that question.

While most loans do not have a pre-payment penalty, you need to keep your loan for at least 6 months depending on your lender. Most lenders make their money by selling their loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for a premium. This is how lenders make money on loans without charging you origination charges and fees. This is how Local Mortgage makes its money. When you pay off your loan in a short time frame (under 6 months), then the lender has to repay its profits back to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And if your lender happens to pay some or all of your closing costs, they lose that money too.

So why should you care if your lender has to repay their profits on your loan? Because this raises the cost of mortgage loans. Lenders will start to increase their rates to offset potential penalties or refuse to front the money to pay your closing costs. As you may already know, there are only so many good lenders that are competitive and trustworthy. Make sure you are fair to those lenders that provide a quality service so that they can continue to serve you and your communities with great rates and low fees.

Local Mortgage tries to not pay off loans that were recently closed because we do not want to cause other lenders to repay their premiums. Unfortunately, not all lenders have this policy as they will refinance anyone without regard to the overall impact on the mortgage industry. Early payoff penalties have started to become a larger problem for all lenders, including Local Mortgage.

Some lenders have different agreements with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well as other secondary market investors, so if you are going to pay off a loan within a short time frame, be sure to check with your lender. It's always better to ask and understand their policy so you can avoid unintentionally causing your lender a financial loss.

As always, thank you for your business and referrals.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
tj
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by tj »

Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:24 pm My previous lender just sent out a lengthly email explaining when one can refinance. This lender also refused to lower my rate after locking when a lower rate was available. They will unfortunately be getting a clawback on their commish
How Soon Can I Refinance?
I hope that you and your family are doing well and having a safe summer.

As rates have dropped over the past few months, I have received many questions regarding how soon a mortgage customer can refinance after recently closing on a mortgage. The purpose of my email is to help you understand the answer to that question.

While most loans do not have a pre-payment penalty, you need to keep your loan for at least 6 months depending on your lender. Most lenders make their money by selling their loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for a premium. This is how lenders make money on loans without charging you origination charges and fees. This is how Local Mortgage makes its money. When you pay off your loan in a short time frame (under 6 months), then the lender has to repay its profits back to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And if your lender happens to pay some or all of your closing costs, they lose that money too.

So why should you care if your lender has to repay their profits on your loan? Because this raises the cost of mortgage loans. Lenders will start to increase their rates to offset potential penalties or refuse to front the money to pay your closing costs. As you may already know, there are only so many good lenders that are competitive and trustworthy. Make sure you are fair to those lenders that provide a quality service so that they can continue to serve you and your communities with great rates and low fees.

Local Mortgage tries to not pay off loans that were recently closed because we do not want to cause other lenders to repay their premiums. Unfortunately, not all lenders have this policy as they will refinance anyone without regard to the overall impact on the mortgage industry. Early payoff penalties have started to become a larger problem for all lenders, including Local Mortgage.

Some lenders have different agreements with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well as other secondary market investors, so if you are going to pay off a loan within a short time frame, be sure to check with your lender. It's always better to ask and understand their policy so you can avoid unintentionally causing your lender a financial loss.

As always, thank you for your business and referrals.
How long are you waiting to pull the trigger in between when you closed the loan from them and your re-fi?
Cycle
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Re: Refinance Mega Thread

Post by Cycle »

tj wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:27 pm
Cycle wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:24 pm My previous lender just sent out a lengthly email explaining when one can refinance. This lender also refused to lower my rate after locking when a lower rate was available. They will unfortunately be getting a clawback on their commish
How Soon Can I Refinance?
I hope that you and your family are doing well and having a safe summer.

As rates have dropped over the past few months, I have received many questions regarding how soon a mortgage customer can refinance after recently closing on a mortgage. The purpose of my email is to help you understand the answer to that question.

While most loans do not have a pre-payment penalty, you need to keep your loan for at least 6 months depending on your lender. Most lenders make their money by selling their loans to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for a premium. This is how lenders make money on loans without charging you origination charges and fees. This is how Local Mortgage makes its money. When you pay off your loan in a short time frame (under 6 months), then the lender has to repay its profits back to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. And if your lender happens to pay some or all of your closing costs, they lose that money too.

So why should you care if your lender has to repay their profits on your loan? Because this raises the cost of mortgage loans. Lenders will start to increase their rates to offset potential penalties or refuse to front the money to pay your closing costs. As you may already know, there are only so many good lenders that are competitive and trustworthy. Make sure you are fair to those lenders that provide a quality service so that they can continue to serve you and your communities with great rates and low fees.

Local Mortgage tries to not pay off loans that were recently closed because we do not want to cause other lenders to repay their premiums. Unfortunately, not all lenders have this policy as they will refinance anyone without regard to the overall impact on the mortgage industry. Early payoff penalties have started to become a larger problem for all lenders, including Local Mortgage.

Some lenders have different agreements with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as well as other secondary market investors, so if you are going to pay off a loan within a short time frame, be sure to check with your lender. It's always better to ask and understand their policy so you can avoid unintentionally causing your lender a financial loss.

As always, thank you for your business and referrals.
How long are you waiting to pull the trigger in between when you closed the loan from them and your re-fi?
I already have the loan. Ive only made one payment. I just don't know if this amex deal plus low rates will be around in the future. I doubt the refi with better will take 5 months, but if it does I guess a clawback won't happen.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way
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